 Welcome to ToffeeTV, the lighter to say I am joined by Joe Thomas from the Liverpool Echo in the studio. Looking forward to the new season. Joe, how are you? Yeah, not too bad, Jason. Yeah, I am looking forward to new season, to be honest. I think, you know, the summers always seem incredibly short, don't it? Especially with Everton, because they just seem to be a club that just doesn't do a sustained period without any news. But that being said, you know, I think I'm looking forward to this. I feel refreshed enough to go again, I think, you know, which I don't think I would have felt like that. If you told me the back end of May that I'd be looking forward to the new season come this point, I think I'd have been surprised. But I am, I think. Yeah, it has felt like an incredibly short amount of time. I think it was only just over eight weeks ago, since obviously the Bournemouth game and staying open. So how do you feel, Everton, have come through that period of time so far? Obviously, we've still got a few weeks left of the transfer window. So, I mean, we'll start with the transfers. Obviously, Ashley Young is through the door. We've got Chimity ready to come in as well. So how are you feeling in the general context of obviously players and the business we're trying to do? I think I'm pleased with the players that have been brought in so far. Obviously Dan Jumer as well. Dan Jumer, of course. I think Ashley Young is an astute signing. You know, let's be honest to the end of the day. Obviously, he's a 38-year-old player of a lot of, you know, minutes in his legs and things like that. And I can understand why, when the deal was first mooted, there were a few elements of the fan base that were perhaps a little bit concerned over what he might say about the overall strategy for the summer. I think that he's a player that brings, I think he's a good personality for a start, and I think that this is a squad that's lost a lot of strong personalities and professionalism in the players that departed. I think he, in the games that we've seen him already, he brings an intelligence, a footballing intelligence onto the pitch which has been missing from too many positions for too long. So, I think that whilst obviously he's not a long-term signing, in the short term, bearing in mind that you're in a position where only eight weeks go for that, you know, one of the biggest games in Everton's modern history, possibly one of the biggest games is history full stop, you're in a situation where you can't play a recognised fullback. Well, Ashley Young is somebody who comes in and he addresses that problem. He does so cheaply, he does so with a touch of class. Arnaud Anjouma is a good sign, I think. You know, we know that he is a player who obviously took Villareal to a Champions League semi-final, and it was his goals that were a big part of getting him there. So, he does have that pedigree. It's clear that he's had a few difficult seasons since then, but hopefully that means that he's got the hunger to kind of revitalise his career. And I think he has, some of the attributes said that this squad desperately, desperately needs. I like the pragmatism around it. I think, you know, if ever, if this was a different era of Everton, Everton might be in a situation where six months after what happened in January, they could go, you know what, we're not touching that. Let's be perfectly honest, for a whole host of reasons, Everton, are in that position this summer. And I like the fact that they haven't let what happened in January stop them from doing what is essential. I think it's a good piece of business this summer. And then for Chimiti, obviously he hasn't signed yet, but I mean, it's looking very, very, it's in a very advanced stages now. It would be a surprise, not quite of the Dan Jouma scale, but if it didn't get done now, I think we'd be very surprised from Everton that likes for both of ourselves will be here and other people as well. I kind of, I like the thinking of it. I think, obviously he's a young lad. I like the idea of that persistence with the Anana approach to a circumstance where you buy something that's quite young, quite inexperienced, but with a potentially high ceiling that you might be able to develop. What I like about the Chimiti deal is he's got similar attributes to some extent of Dominic Calvert-Lewin. And I think the problem that Everton had at this stage, perhaps a little bit later in his transfer window last summer, was that once Dominic Calvert-Lewin got injured, they appeared to go almost counter-intuitively, and they went for Neil Mopay, who's a player which has good attributes. I can understand why they might think he might have worked, but they didn't seem to have a plan around him and what he would do and how they would play to his strengths. And I think that's been unfortunate for the club and for him personally. And it's still the case now, but with Chimiti what they seem to be doing is, albeit it'll be questionable how much an impact he can have immediately, they're bringing in somebody that, if Dominic Calvert-Lewin isn't available, might be able to do a similar kind of job. And the way that Dominic Calvert-Lewin is so important to Everton's system and the way they play, Everton only have a plan A. I think we saw that very clearly at the end of last season. They only have one way of effectively playing, and that is with somebody like Dominic Calvert-Lewin up top. So if Dominic Calvert-Lewin isn't on the pitch, and obviously things are looking quite good on that front at the moment, almost it's less important whether how developed that player, who the replacement is, so long as he can do some of the same jobs and bring the best out of the players around him. If Chimiti doesn't come in and hit 10 goals in 20 games, that doesn't have to be the end of the world, because what he might do is just by occupying defenders in the same way, just by winning balls on a halfway line, just by running on your channel or helping the ball to stick up top. What he might do is he might bring in the likes of Dwight Maneel when he's fit, Alex O'Wobe, bring those players in around him so that if Chimiti can't get the goals that Dominic Calvert-Lewin was at scoring last season, then perhaps he might at least help the likes of Maneel O'Wobe, and those around him turn from three or four goals a season to seven or eight goals a season, and all of a sudden the whole standard just increases. What we've seen so far, obviously with the squad as well is he would get opportunities as well, whether it be off the bench or to start games with obviously Dominic Calvert-Lewin's persistent injury, and also I think for me, it takes, for me it's not a case of Dominic Calvert-Lewin being, if we can, obviously we don't want him to be injured as much, but if the program, which is obviously the manager's goal there, if the program means that he's playing a couple of games, then maybe missing a third game, might give him that opportunity to play every third game and keep that consistent way of playing, because you said there, Mopai's not a bad player, he's just a bad signing, for me, I don't want to go over the top or bottom, I just think he's just a bad sign, he doesn't fit that mould of style of play, which, you know, obviously he's a defensive manager, and sometimes he likes his players a little bit more tucked in. Having someone off-front who can keep hold of the ball and then allow those players to join in the play is a massive part of that, where obviously Mopai likes to get all of his time dropping, it just doesn't suit us, I've seen a bit of that so far in pre-season, so I just think it's important to bring talent to players in and I know people don't like to hear it, sell on and all this kind of things, but we have to be realistic about, not where we are as a football club, but where the majority of teams are in the Premier League right now, certainly with the money that's flowing in from the Champions League, from the chains of the Champions League next season, from the clubs getting money coming in from Saudi, you know, there's very much in us and them now and we're very much in the, you know, in the camp that hasn't got the money, so you have to have talent to players that in two or three years you can look to sell on. That's it, I think ever in a situation where the only way they can make genuine progress is through sustainable means, and that's by having a long-term image that might be a case of a couple of years of buying, you know, a player for 20 million pounds thinking of what might that sound for 50 in a couple of years, but that's how you, you know, you see kind of other clubs that have done it a lot over the last few years, and obviously they've, you know, they've sold Hoyl into Man United and now they're bringing in Treyore, looking at Scamacca and a couple of others. By doing, by investing in that one player, if it pays off, what it helps you to do is raise the ceiling, the rest of the squad around it when those players move on. And I think that that's an approach that makes a lot of sense for Everton, where they are at this stage. Definitely. What would you like to see then, obviously in the next couple of weeks, because I do think it's going to be, I do think it's going to be a mad few weeks. I just, I look at a lot of the big teams now have brought in their top talents, which means they'll start to look to release players. There's still hell of a lot of good free transfers available, I think, as well. So where do you think we need to strengthen and where can you imagine they will strengthen in the next few weeks? I think the reality is they probably need to strengthen in more areas than they're going to be able to. I think, if we're honest looking at that situation, probably not getting to an ideal Dyche squad by the end of August. Chamity helps, but I do think that Everton probably need another centre forward as well. We can probably have a different profile of a four, but at least somebody with a bit of Premier League experience, someone that kind of almost operates in between Chamity and Dominic Calvallu. Dominic Calvallu, and it's obviously, if Dominic Calvallu plays 32 games this season, and haven't had a reasonable chance of finishing mid-table, he's that much of a game changer for this squad. We know from the last two seasons that it's a gamble to expect that. You can't expect that. Obviously, Chamity will help to fill in some of those gaps, but we've got to remember that he's young and inexperienced, obviously. We only broke into the sport inside earlier on this year. So we don't want to... We don't want to seek to reduce the immense pressure on Dominic Calvallu by putting too much pressure on somebody else. That's how it works. It needs to be someone that can kind of almost level it off in the middle. A bit of Premier League experience, someone that can work within the squad, within a Dyche setup and help to provide goals from another source. I do think... I really think they need a right winger. And we know that that's somewhere that Everton are looking out. Camille Insulamana being one of them. Willie Nonto, I know he's played on the left a lot for the Leeds, but if you've got him into the squad, what other players might be able to do where they may be able to play is obviously a knock-on effect. They were looking at Alanga as well, obviously didn't get that over the line. So I think a right winger as well. I think those are the priority bits. I think there's enough within that squad for Dyche to work with from a defensive point of view. I'm not saying it's ideal. I think in an ideal world, you probably bring another centre-midfield, another centre-back and another goalkeeper. I think Everton will, despite the lessons of the last two years, don't gamble on players being fit and not having a backup of certain areas. I think Everton will have to take that risk in some position to seize. And it's a case of identifying which ones you feel most comfortable taking it. It may well be that in that case, you don't replace Beggaritch and Virginia steps up, and rather than maybe the ideal plan might be to have Beggaritch for one more year to bring Virginia in his third choice and help him grow into the number two role for next season. It may well be that he makes that stuff up this season, but he's had a good pre-season, and obviously he is, as far as Everton's options, certainly within the squad, he's the most experienced number two option that they've got, as we've seen from Xanley Leban and Harry Tyre going out on loan. Yeah, and obviously... Well, we probably need another goalie to put on the bench, to be fair. Maybe a third one. So, he's absolutely right. I think the fans are, you know, from listening to them. Obviously, Strikers and most we've had, Ian Atchow, obviously, has been linked with us massively, you know, and Tia Adams as well. There's another one, both of them, I think, you know, have started obviously with their clubs in the championship. If you get either of them, they're a decent price, but it's getting them for a decent price, isn't it? That's it. I think Adams is probably someone that would adapt to the way in which Everton played better. Ian Atchow, I like Ian Atchow. I also think that in the same way, they've got to be very careful. They don't make the same approach. They don't want to use the word mistakes, but obviously, things haven't worked out in the way that everybody would hope they would with Mo Peck. So, I think if you're going to bring in a player that plays best in a different kind of way, there has to be a plan around how to use him. Yeah. So, you know, if Ian Atchow came for the door, I'd be happy, but only if there is a plan for that rather than a case of, my fear has been that they'd get to this stage at a window and all of a sudden they go to panic stations and it become not, can we get a striker that fits this system, but can we get any striker? Yeah. And what fills me with a little bit of confidence with the Chimiti deal is the fact that it kind of been, it almost seems that they haven't panicked. What they've gone is they've gone for somebody, you know, obviously he's a prospect. Yeah. You know, he's a starlet. He's a, you know, he's a teen with not many games under his belt, but what he isn't is he isn't a massive diversion away from the best way to ever play football at this current time with this current squad. Certainly after missing out on Strayore as well. Yeah. That was, you know, obviously, I think, you know, it was, it was, it was a strange one, because I know there's a lot of noise about how close Everton got, but I mean, from having followed it from the beginning of the July onwards, it never really looked like it was going to get over the line. I think there's a lot of talking at the other end of the deal. Yeah. You know, Almeria from the outset were very, very clearly a club that were looking to, you know, basically drive up, drive, create a market for their player because their model very much is baser or their summer, this summer is based very much around, you know, can they get, make the money to then fund a wider rebuild, rebuild, because they only just survived in the Liga last season. So I think had Atalanta not been sniffing around, had Atalanta not had the, the hollering money increasingly likely to come in at the time, then, yeah, if Everton had had a, had a clean run of that deal, I think it would have got over the line. Yeah. But once, and this is a problem that I haven't got with too much anybody at the minute, once it becomes a competition as to how they can do it, I haven't quite got the resources to commit to, to win that battle. I suppose that's where they have to choose the targets, carefully isn't it, and be quick about doing the deal as well, trying to get it over the line as quick as possible, so not, not attract that other interest as well and see if they can get these players over. So let's, let's just talk about the plays we have got up for a moment. So Dan Dume, what, what role do you expect he'll, he'll take this season because obviously plays off the left and he's, score I think the most amount of goals from the left, but as a centre forward, is, is, is ratio for score, there's actually better from playing off the left. So do you think he can actually fill in all, all three positions? I think potentially, I think, I think the one thing that Dan Dume can't do this season is be the Dominic Calvert Lewin backup. They can't play four, five, one, you know, four, four, one, one, um, which are Dice's favourite formations and have Dan Dume in that, you know, that top role that Dominic Calvert plays in because we, we saw it against, albeit briefly, we saw it against Stoke, he is in that play. He's not going to win headers against, you know, six foot whatever, centre backs from the halfway line and there's only so much that he can do in terms of running the channels to relieve the pressure. So that won't, if he's a spearhead that won't work. Now he could be effective off the left wing. Um, you know, that's a role that does exist for him within the squad. The question there will be well, to what extent does that limit to right Neal's effectiveness in the second half of the last season. It was probably a toss up between him and Dwight and Abdelay de Corrie. So who was the best player in the Everton survival run? Obviously he finished the top goals, the top goalscorer for the, for the club and the campaign and, you know, I think that Neal's performance away at Bride's and was probably the best individual performance of an Everton play last season, maybe the only competition being pickford against Liverpool and the Derby at Goodison, which, you know, he was a ten out of ten in that game. So I like the idea of Dan Juma playing as a support striker effectively playing off Dominic Calvert-Lewin. So, you know, that might help Everton keep more bodies in the centre midfield as well. I think that's where he could be at is stronger. So, you know, Dwight and Neal off the left wing, ideally have a specialist right wing or off the right wing, or the right midfield as it would be in those circumstances and have Dan Juma almost filling in that gap. The, you know, Abdelay de Corrie for the, you know, 30 yards out, bursting into the box kind of thing last, and it's a great effectiveness at the back end of last season. But maybe having, you know, Dan Juma as the player that's there to bounce off Dominic Calvert-Lewin, to pick up the loose balls that he wins from to play off, from to play in, you know, the wide players as they're going forward and ask a goal for it as well. I think that's what I'd like to see. It's just hard to envisage an Everton team with only two midfield players. And I think what probably actually ends up happening is if that was to be a route that Dice was to go down, I think you'd end up seeing almost a flat four rather than a one with wingers. And I think that's probably where Dwight Mendeel and Axel Woby retain their positions in the sense that they both do a lot of defensive work as we sort of back in the last season. So for that to kind of be the, be the approach, you know, obviously for what you gain in having someone up there around Dominic Calvert-Lewin, this heaven side has to kind of make adjustments elsewhere. But, you know, hopefully what that would do is it would create a more effective route to go. And in fairness to Dice, she got Everton in the opposition box hell of a lot more in the back end of the season. Obviously the problem as, you know, it has been for some time was making the most of the chances they did get rather than necessarily creating chance in the first place. I really like Alex Woby in the left center midfield role. I think as a creative as a creative player, there weren't a lot of positives to take from that first half of the season on the LAN part. And obviously Woby ended up there essentially because of the injury crisis that Evan started the season with in center midfield. But for him to have created the number of assists and goal involvement that he had before the World Cup break, bearing in mind how for so long that he didn't have a fit Dominic Calvert-Lewin playing alongside and he wasn't a largely dysfunctional side. I think it's really impressive. But again, the problem is if you then take him off the right midfield who goes there and also who do you take out center midfield? There's a quid pro quo for everything, isn't there? It doesn't quite feel like there's a formation that suits all of our play. No, that's definitely got like the James Garner who could like you mentioned before he could play on when we have seen him he's played on the right hand side. Obviously he's going to tuck in and allow Patterson or Coleman to go on the outside. Dwight McNeill could play and he's coming in. There's just a woby as you said should be playing down the center in an ideal scenario. That's what his skill set is. But then you've got these two midfielders that you don't feel that you've got to that you can really rely on. Unless of course O'Nan are really stepped up this season and becomes a player who can get all over the pitch. But it just feels like we've got a lot of players but no real play. It does and that's existed for a while but it's not really something I don't think everyone can properly address until next summer. Next summer is the big summer when a lot of the big contracts end and there's probably a little bit more movement around them. Stadiums on the horizon. Another big negative year will drop off the financial fair play role in system. That's the summer that you would think that Kevin Fowell could really do something with this squad at the moment. It's step by step. One of my favourite passages of play from this summer so far has been I think it was against Wigan. I know it's only against Wigan and Wigan caused trouble. Stephen Humphries on the right caused problems down evidence. But what I liked in that game obviously Ashley Young played left winger and Alex Woby left centre midfield and the interactions between the way that Young could pick Woby out there the way they linked up together the way they fed each other. I think that's the reminder of the intelligence Woby has and what you can bring out of him if he has other intelligent footballs around him I don't think we've seen enough of that whether or not we'd be able to this season I don't know but if you had Young got left back Danyima left wing and Woby effectively in between them I'd like however and would look down that left hand side to work. The amount of times you let the winger skip inside them but you can put that down to rust he's only just come back And sporting are a very good attacking unit as well I took positives from the sporting performance for Everton but Evan should have been behind in the first quarter they should have been one or two and I also think as well for everything that we've said about transfers and stuff like that although we didn't score you looked at because he looked like he could do a lot of things that I mean we talk about trying to find someone that could either compliment or challenge Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Gokra it looked like he was like you said before if you've got another club competing who can pay well obviously that being the case this summer but last summer there was an opportunity there for Everton obviously Coventry at that point I think might be newly promoted at that point in January when Coventry like Blackburn with Diaz we're looking at and thinking we could sell these players now or you know both of them on a promotion hunt that's worth far more money for him so it's worth keeping hold of them wasn't it so I think actually and probably I'll start left back I think Michael Enko obviously he's played two 45 minutes now do you think that one of the reasons and you sort of touched on this before is obviously not being around at the moment and also we don't I mean I love Seamus but I want I want Patterson starting right back I want him you know he's not he's not the Finnish brother by any means do you think actually Jung gives you that experience that leadership he's being there he's won things as well I mean you know I was as close to them and you were as close to them at Wigan when we spoke to them after the game we were both there we were fantastic and I just thought well you know 38 this fellow I enjoy the way he brushed off the gaffers day as well when I asked him if it was the hardest experience of a preseason that he's had and he was like well it was hard but you know Conte was a bit different Conte in Italy was a little bit more difficult but do you think he fills that role of having that little bit of leadership yeah I can definitely see what he's saying there absolutely because the other reason as well our fans want to want to centre back this to me Brant Waith could be one of the start ones and you've got Patterson you've got Brant Waith obviously Tarkowski in there and you need that little bit I think you might need that little bit of experience in there as well and Young obviously gives you that absolutely I think the way the way in which he reads the game as well it's just crucial I think he brings a lot of things to the table Evan didn't have last season I've already mentioned it I don't want to keep repeating myself but the intelligence that he has you know first and foremost he's more than happy to take possession facing his own goal in tight situations and as we've seen a few times over preseason he's put the right players around him he can play his way out of that trouble yeah if he can't find a way I've seen it so many times already in these few games and I appreciate their only friendlies but he's very adept at winning that free kick going down when he feels the contact and all of a sudden ever in a situation 30 yards up the pitch with possession and they've got a free kick as opposed to scrambling around you know on the edge of their own box and under pressure but he also carries the ball really well and that's something that we just didn't see from Everton or last season it's one of the reasons that I think Lewis Dobbin has been so such a breath of fresh air this summer am I saying Lewis Dobbin's going to have a big role to play in Evan's Premier League season this season probably not but I think if you'd have said to anybody the Academy prospect is going to have the best pre-season I don't think many people would have picked Lewis Dobbin including myself and one of the things that I've liked about both young and Dobbin when they've been on the left is how they've picked up the ball and they've been willing to be direct and run at people and both go both ways so go to the bar and put a cross and then you can cut inside and have a shot and just that was missing so much of last season just that idea that there's a bit of intelligence a bit further down the pitch but I think that's the basis Yeah Now Dobbin's definitely he's given himself a chance at least as he's played himself into almost like the need to buy a player for him to be maybe sent somewhere else on loan where we've already seen players leave on loan who fans you know have got big hopes for you know Mills and Warrington where people look at them think they could be part of it I mean after the Bolton game I think the manager clearly made his mind performance is so far I've said to the manager well I at least can stick around till you find someone to replace me and if you don't then maybe I can be a part of this for the rest of the season Yeah that's it I think pretty much every Evan fan wants to support a club where there's an opportunity and a system for the likes of Dobbin Warrington Mills Cannon et cetera to come into the first team and grow into a more senior role sadly Evan aren't in that position at the moment they haven't been for a couple of years pressure-free minutes for apart from perhaps some of the more difficult games or Evan were you know well behind going into the last season as a result would have been difficult environments to come onto Isaac Price came on when Evan was well behind against Brighton back in January but they either haven't been those you look back to obviously the most famous example Alex Ferix in his class of 92 well it's a lot easier to bring young players into your given experience when you're 18 minutes ago all the time Evan are in that situation are they going to be in that situation this season hopefully but I very much doubt it so I would have liked to have seen those players hang around a little bit longer I'd have liked to in the same way that Frank Lampard kept them around the squad until the very end of the transfer window last summer and then made an evaluation once he knew who was coming in I would have preferred that to have been the case this summer because I still think that there are holes in the holes in the squad that could be filled and the players can necessarily fill them I don't know but I like the idea of giving them a chance and they're not going to get that chance but at least by growing out on loan they still have the opportunity to further their development so yeah it's an interesting one just leading on from the point about Ashley Young is obviously the changing captaincy as well that's been interesting as well because obviously I mean Jamie Coleman is the club captain we all know that but obviously he's going to have it wouldn't surprise me with James but obviously he's gone from Jordan Pickford to James Tarkowski that's interesting to me because actually in the last few years that's not something we've seen massively happen at Everton it's been obviously Seamus has been the captain and new managers have come in and they've typically just stuck to carrying on as normal but Sean Dice I think is maybe you know set an example here and said no I'm having my man yeah clearly I think you know Tarkovsky is clearly a very prominent voice in that dressing room and on that pitch and we know that Dice trusts him because he knows him he wasn't Dice's captain in Burnley that was Ben Meele he did have the armband from time to time but it was Ben Meele that had that job at Burnley and the Dice so I'm a little bit surprised because you know it's a role that I know Pickford was very very proud to have and you know it's difficult to say that he's done a bad job of it necessarily but it certainly hasn't hasn't impacted his performances because if you look at the last 18 months certainly for all of last season the second half of the season that ended in the you know the Crystal Palace survival win you know Pickford kept ever in those relegation battles you know he's been a long played a big part of keeping everything in the Premier League over those two seasons and I think that when he signed his contract in you know back in the January beginning of February I think that it was a massive credibility boost within the dressing room for Shaun Deitch because obviously Pickford you've got someone there who is an England number one now she's played later stages of you know World Cups you know European Championships final you could completely understand why he might be looking elsewhere to see it as a move to play at a level ever and can't give him at the moment so you know when he signed that contract obviously he's happy at Everton there might have been a degree of pragmatism but he's happy at Everton he loves the club and he likes being around around here so I thought it was a bit of a surprise to see him have the vice captain see it's actually taken off and following that because it was a useful thing for Shaun Deitch coming in to have one of the biggest characters in the dressing room kind of give him that you know that bit of momentum which alongside the Arsenal win really did help Everton during that difficult period but I think we can I don't think anyone's particularly surprised by Tarkovsky someone that the manager feels he can trust and we know that quite often there are a lot of managers where it's not necessarily a personal thing but they like to have their captain further up the pitch as opposed to in goal because of the different type of influence they can have and you know I think if you take the emotions out of it then perhaps that might be another one of the reasons for it but I don't think Everton are necessarily worse off for having Tarkovsky with the Armand when Coleman isn't there so you know he fought hard for Everton last season I just wonder whether it was not a power move as such by Dice he's the manager of the club but I think in a way it's almost like he's his version of the young yeah I can see that you have to stay the manager on the pitch I think probably Dice is in a situation where he didn't need to make power moves by this summer I think most of the players that were there from late January from when he came in in late January I think the message would have been received loud and clear already as to who is the wholesome power in Finch Farm yeah especially after Gaffer's Day yeah that was just an it's just an incest the more it is so have you obviously Everton have been unbeaten in the friendly self have you taken much out of them or has it been hard to take anything out of them just because of the disjointed nature of them obviously Dan Dume only played against Stoke for 45 minutes he did play in the behind closed door against Monsard Dominic Arvindlouin hasn't played much in them we were both at Wigan and it felt like that team picked itself and probably told each other where they were going to play that day it was 11 players and a load of 18-year-olds on the bench that the manager didn't want to bring on so is it been hard to try and get an idea of what he wants to do this season not necessarily I think it's clear for Stard it's going to be a 4-5-1 or a 4-4-1-1 that's looked pretty obvious which we again we already knew there's been a few insights that I think probably been able to glean in particular the Javaginia number 2 question Javaginia played a lot of minutes in front of the Shaun Dyche including when Dyche was at Tranmere well we were at Wigan so it looks like you can say of a degree of confidence the very least Shaun Dyche done everything you can to look at Virginia and see where everyone or he feels comfortable with him as backup goalkeeper he's had that chance we'll see where that takes us in the next few weeks but you wouldn't put number 2 as a top priority for everything quite at this stage I don't think so I've been pleased with Nathan Patterson because obviously there are so many players within the squad that we have questions about fitness Patterson has had a real misfortune with his injuries over the 18 months so that he's been an Everton player I know that during the offseason he spent a lot of time at Finch Farm working really really hard to try and in a similar way to Dom kind of build back in a more sustainable manner build more resilience I suppose into his into his body and he's looked he's looked quite good we know he's still raw we're not going to I don't think we should be naive about it but he started last season really well and it was a shame because the injuries then started to kind of disrupt his season he was just grown into it so I'm you know I'd like to he's had a good preseason foundation this summer so hopefully that'll come forward I think that the reality is that probably I think he probably seems to see Alexa Woby as a wide player at the moment that's probably a degree of you know trying to create the best squad rather than trying to get the best out of every single individual so you know I haven't learned a lot that I didn't know already not a huge amount you know some of these lineups have been experimental I think probably if we're being perfectly honest some of the more interesting insights that we've been getting is by who hasn't been there rather than who has been there you know obviously we've all seen that Mason Holgate hasn't really had any involvement you know it's interesting him from elsewhere and obviously unlike Jarrod Brown for it and James Garner who came back from international duty and have come straight into the setup you know we haven't seen who had a good gold cup with Jamaica you know did really well with them so I think we can probably see which way both of those situations are going I'd like Branthwaite when he's come in you know probably probably still think his favourite partnership is Keane and Tarkovsky out of what he's got that's quite an interesting work but Branthwaite has done a lot to kind of make him you know to put himself in that conversation more so than perhaps necessarily expected him to like he certainly gets second half against Lisbon and he's been proactively good as opposed to just coming in and doing the job he's actually been impressive so you know it's clear that it's clear that he's a different player to the one that we last saw a goodness in part getting sent off against Ivan Tony where for all we want to talk about it probably should have been a penalty for Charleston to build up to that goal I don't think anyone could argue that once you don't give that penalty it's clearly a red card thought and outmuscled by Ivan Tony and it's quite a clumsy foul I think haven't had a player who's a bit more mature now and hopefully someone that we'll see get you know get a good show in this summer the other season yeah it's that's interesting because obviously Benkoff he started on Saturday you know Branthwaite came on a half time Keen only came on because Taki got the injury so that's interesting I think a lot of fans want to see Branthwaite finally get that opportunity yeah he for me it just seems a bit light for the Premier League at the moment but I want him given the chance because I just look at the other two Michael Keen is Michael Keen he's steady in his own way he never gets injured you know you can always call on him and you know certainly for certain games he's he's the right man supporting next to James Tarkov the problem is there's a lot of games like we saw in the Leicester game which obviously is the last time he played in the Premier League where pace and mobility can leave him looking you know average Benkoff I am being told relentlessly people feel like he's lost pace yeah so again that can be because maybe it's pre-season and he's not quite up to the levels I'm not sure but I think certainly with Branthwaite it's just that optimism isn't it a young player we all want him to do well he did well last season we know what the other two can can give us so why not start and give this lad very much like in the John Stones mould the thing give this lad an opportunity next to someone who in James Tarkovsky is the leader of the team now had a fantastic first season let him make his mistakes I suppose can't ever afford for him to make those mistakes though that's probably the question yeah I don't know if they can at this stage should be perfectly honest I think they have to almost play the safe bet with each one I think with Michael Keane you know I understand that there are a lot of people that probably have there are a lot of critics of him I think one thing in Michael Keane's defence would be that although obviously Sean Deich sought to bring him in from an early stage after his appointment in earlier on this year Keane has been unfortunate from the fact that a lot of the time that he's been involved in this Evans starting lineup it's been when there's been an absolute mess of a situation of fullback you know the archetype all kind of negative highlight for Keane is putting the ball into the back of his own net from six, eight yards isn't it well you know obviously we've seen that a fair few occasions but probably it would only be fair to Keane to look at how he's ended up in that situation in the first place more often than not it's because opposition wingers have got to the byline too easily and put them in on Michael Keane a situation where he's facing his own goal eight yards out he's got a ball flashing across him and trying to work out what to do you know because you know you look at that when he came into team earlier on this year during that kind of I think Dijk has got a lot of things right and he deserves a lot of credit for the way in which he's kept Evans up but I'm still slightly confused by the whole Mason Holegate as a fullback you know Ben Godfrey as a right back experiment which was around the same time that Keane kind of came into the side so you know like I do think he deserves for for that context at least been given when people analyse you know where his position is within this squad I suppose probably throw it back to you question is obviously we know about Branthwaite his inexperience although we also know about the clear potential he has he clearly does and obviously nurturing that is the his approach you know how do Everton get the best out of Jared Branthwaite whilst he's is that throwing him in the deep end now or is that kind of gradually bringing him in Fulham obviously are a squad that have got a lot of you know got their own issues at the moment and Mitrovic you know Sarman is one of them I mean if it gets to a point next Saturday when Mitrovic is starting for Fulham who would you rather send it back Oh him and his though as well isn't he if him and his starts for Fulham he's another one he's another player who will give him that to me it's I don't think there's a clear solution just because I agree with that I don't think there's an easy answer to this because Keane has got his own issues but you would fancy him actually physically but then and Ben Godfrey is he's a conundrum he really is a conundrum because he's he's got all the attributes he's he just still lacks that I don't know he just he lacks something as a centre back like he doesn't I always say like you know good defenders almost smell the danger before it happens there's no way to be before what's happened and I find that as a centre back I find that a woody intrigue because that pace is not always going to be there so how long can you maintain that I think centre backs are always better when they're already in the position because pace I mean if they've got pace that's another bonus but if they're already aware and I think that's something I don't think positioning is always being a little bit off Interesting one with Ben isn't it because I mean on the flipside you don't let the draw happen got the Etihad they played him centre back in a in a back five essentially I know Erling Harland scored in that game but Ben Godfrey did his good job on him in that match so I've seen anyone do on Harland laugh at what they saw anyone do on Harland admittedly not having forensically watched every city game but you know and albeit a degree of that was less probably about football and more about the personal battle that he allowed Harland to get drawn into you know really I keep saying this when people you know Harland shouldn't have been on the pitch like I'm still I'm still amazed he didn't get a straight red for the foul on Michel Enko because of someone it was right in front of us and you could see you know it's not so much that the tackle itself was particularly it was really dangerous it was more the intent you could see that he was fired up and as Michel Enko on the touchline picked the ball got his back to Harland you could see what Harland's going to do from 20 yards away but still obviously I haven't got a point from that game but that shows you what Godfrey can do so you know a little bit like the point that you were making earlier with perhaps some of Everton's midfielders there are a lot of kind of players here that we know we've got positive attributes and we know in the right formation the right players around them could be part of a competitive Premier League side it's just trying to build that squad and it feels like they always have you know two thirds of a plan well they have a plan A and that plan A is Dominic Halver and then it feels like they have kind of two thirds of a plan B and two thirds of a plan C and two thirds of a plan C but they can't quite muster the solutions out of what they've got for every player that plays in their best position someone else plays out of position which is the nature of the kind of Frankenstein squad they've got at the moment so it's really difficult to ask you a question because even though the season starts this week we know because of the transfer window it's really hard to know where Everton is going to be in a couple of weeks but I mean in reality what do you envisage for Everton this season it's difficult like you know it's difficult obviously that doesn't get me out of having to give an opinion I think the I think there are a number of factors which might help Everton this season that didn't help I think the league might be weaker now we all made the mistake of of a shoot I say made the made the mistake obviously Scott Parker was born with both was coming out in public and saying the squad weren't good enough at the beginning of last season but at the beginning of last season Bournemouth didn't look competitive Nottingham Forest looked a mess and there were a few unknown quantities as it happened it ended up there were no I'm not going to say that it was a particularly high standard in the Premier League but there were clearly a lot of a lot of teams around the bottom six or seven of a very similar ability you didn't get what you often get without one or two teams dropped completely away now haven't looked that closely but it feels that there might be a couple of clubs that could potentially do that this season obviously Sheffield United have lost their goal score Luton are coming up it'll be interesting to see whether they and also Sheffield United to a certain extent although they're in their evolution whether or not Luton come up with the idea if let's try and stay in the Premier League or let's take as much money from the Premier League as we can to then go down and build a more sustainable route back into consolidating as a Premier League outfit but they might that might both help Everton walls are clearly in a slightly tricky scenario West Ham are as well there are a couple of squads that haven't really improved that much so that might help I think that the thing that has been most positive for Everton this season is I don't think that there is any naivety at Finch Farm is to the challenge that lies ahead I think when you look back to this time last summer I think that there was an attitude it wasn't an attitude of complacency but I think that there was a belief that the score was better than it was and if I'm perfectly honest I felt this too I coming out of the season ended in the Crystal Palace you know survival lampard and the positivity that was flowing from that I think there were a lot of people in the club and outside the club that looked in that squad and thought you know what if you take it out of that toxic context that got embroiled in the back end of that season and you take it out of that relegation death spiral that it was in and you give the players a psychological break and a physical break to you cause they did have a lot of bad injuries they did have a lot of bad luck at the back end of that season as well I was one of the people that probably thought that you got that squad you gave it a break you got the players back to fitness and it's probably 5 or 6 points better naturally 5 or 6 points better off than it was and therefore that avoids you getting the relegation but then you look at some of the signings and it appeared to be a plan you look at Dominic Calvin Lewin looked really good he looked good he looked fit in preseason so there was a degree of positivity also we know how unfolded obviously that optimism was misplaced including from me I think one thing that where Everton approached this season stronger than last season is I think that Sean Dice will have them on a war footing from the moment that that first ball is picked there will be in no doubt the priority number one is to stay in the Premier League that they are in a fight that they are in a relegation battle and it's up to them to push themselves away from it rather than just do their own thing and hope that they don't fall into trouble number one plan will be do everything it takes to not go down and then if that ends up in a situation where you get to you know March, April of next season and all of a sudden everyone's positively surprised in the 13th, 14th it doesn't look like they're going to be in a relegation battle well that's the bonus hopefully that is the situation because then they'll be able to do you know what Kevin Fowler, Dan Purdy haven't been able to do for the last two seasons and that is actually get a head start on the transfer window not knowing what league they have contingency plans and things like that the hell of a difference starting your you know your transfer window in Easter after the last game of the season we can go thank goodness for that we're safe I put them on a massive back foot put them on a back foot this summer so I do I think they're going to set the world a light no do I think it's you know can I guarantee they're not going to be in a relegation battle no do I have nerves around the squad yes I do you know but do I think they'll start in this in the right frame of mind and do I think that they have a manager that is probably you know very good at setting a side up for that yes they need some more players desperately hopefully they will get them this becomes a very different conversation on the 1st of September if nobody else has come in but I'm you know I'm trying my best to be positive and as I said the big positive I can take right from the start and whatever to my lack in ability they might make up for it a little bit in mentality and hopefully that will at least at least kind of prepare them better for what could be a difficult season again yeah no I absolutely agree with you because I think there was an idea 12 months ago that after you know being out in America and watching them I mean I I'll be honest I wasn't looking forward to because of the goals but after that we were going to evolve and Frank Lampard's football and playing out from the back was going to was going to evolve into something better and and the schedule as well having well five, six games for the window shut as well didn't help with such a small squad not having a centre four when Tom got injured it all played its part and then obviously you know you mentioned the relegated teams coming up they all got that nice break but we don't get that this year so I think it will be and you're right we start from the idea I think the other side of it was I think there was a feeling last summer everyone's caught up in this Frank Lampard going to get sacked first let's prove them wrong and I think showing Dice is very much of like I know where we're starting and I know where we're going to where we're trying to get to and there's a realism about what he's trying to do and what we ended up last season was a manager trying to play survival football brought the feller in you understood it completely I think that will help that's it I think Evan didn't start last season it took him a long time to get their first win but there were positives that you could take from a lot of those before me remember being it was early in the season but the nil nil the good of Sundarby Evan genuinely went toe to toe with that little side of the time and at that time I don't think we or many people quite realise the drop off that Liverpool had had from the season before when they got they played every there was a drop off in quality from them which hadn't really come to the fore then but remember look at that and thinking I remember going went to Leeds and we last game before the end of the transfer window and Lampard moved from the back five to the back four and Leeds were in good form at the time didn't tear out in the part I was like oh maybe we but I do think that there was probably a degree of thought we were one step further ahead in the transition perhaps kind of tried to run before they could walk and I myself look back and have to put my hands up and say you know I thought Everton were better than they were going into that season the big problem and you were there as well we were both there in Minnesota when Adrian Heave's team just absolutely tore you ever in a part I think that was a that was a hit in the earth and going oh wait a minute things aren't really get better here there is a lot of a mess within this squad and this group of players but then and Lampard you might mention relegation back then but what did happen after that was they didn't go and sign a strike and they did bring in a few players after they thought well alright maybe it's obviously it didn't there's an alternative universe somewhere where Everton just had a lovely season last year where Lampard led them to I don't know 11th Cody Cody and Tarkovsky the dads having a and being the club that even wanted to be around and things like that but unfortunately things didn't turn out that way there's an alternative a world where we just sold Anthony Gordon to Chelsea and we just used the money and brought in a couple of strikers which is what probably happened they've again not really got two bites at that they didn't do it exactly maybe they done it in last summer would have been able to get some better players in but we didn't but I think we all know it's going to be tough this season but like you're saying then something like 5-6 extra points you know to look at the home form the home form was abysmal there's no I'm not you just hope Everton could kind of as bad the season the away form you imagine can only get better because we'll be in games because we're going to be a little bit tougher Everton got 9 more points 3 more wins that does get you to 11th place 12th place whatever you've got if you're around that area in Easter and suddenly everyone goes it's not being a great season but at least we're not going to the final day like you said plans can be put in place and you know what they're just they're not even saying like transfer ones as well they're things like maybe it'll be those who goes on that nice tour to America with the Premier League and we earn extra money from that extra money from finishing higher up the league all of a sudden there's I think and I think in a sense within the dressing room a Finch farm at Goodison Park or wherever at the minute that aren't a million miles away from being a project that players can and want to buy into we know it's a fabulous club we know it's got a wonderful fan base we know it's got a rich history we know that it's got you know it's a club that's very fortunate to have more about it than you know a lot of others it is you know it's one of the biggest football clubs in the world like it like it is why people keep talking about us exactly that's why Everton are restoring no matter what they're doing because they are a big club and I think that what Everton have failed to do recently sadly is they failed to harness the potential that they've got both as a football club and as an institution and direct that into a positive fashion and get the forward momentum going you know I don't think they're far off being able to do that they've just got to get the basic things right on and off the pitch yeah yeah that means changes on and off the pitch a change of approach to certain things but you know there is a there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it is visible that doesn't mean to say Everton will get there football is such a fickle and precarious business and you know the first six weeks of this season are absolutely huge because if ever Everton have an opportunity with the way the fixture list is to kind of get a head start on the season if they don't take that situation where the transfer when they doesn't play out how most people would hope it do and the results don't go how they would hope you could end up in the situation again where you get to October and that second international break and there could be another period of reckoning but hopefully hopefully it won't be and I say the big positive that I take going into this season is I say I don't think there's any naivety at Finch Farm around what the situation is and I think that Shaun Dyche will instill that within the players within the squad as a result of that hopefully they'll be better prepared for what lies ahead which will be difficult just fine I won't talk about I don't think there's any points on my thumb because it's really hard isn't it it's really hard to get an idea it'll just be it'll just be the first game of the season and you hope you get three points yeah I mean I still have nightmares about a couple of months ago when Fulham last rocked up a good at some park and again like I say I think Dyche won last season but there were a few kind of head scratches yeah and the maintenance of the 4-4-2 and I think it was Ben Godfrey right back that day and that first half an hour was a I mean it was it was terrible and you know so I mean that was a real disappointing day I'd like to think it couldn't be worse than that so but I think it's going to be really interesting but it's obviously Dyche will say every game's worth the same every game's a big battle but I think I do think it's a game which is an opportunity for Evan to start the season it's not some last season it was Chelsea newly crowned European champions wasn't it who's already started their massive spending spree and albeit they were a bit lucky to get past the first game of the season so there's a penalty that did it but there is a chance there's a chance in these fixtures Evan to start building positive momentum quickly and if they can do that then you know things might start to kind of turn a corner yeah and just finally you know this time next week we might know more about the projected investments in Evan as well there's obviously been a lot of talk all summer that could be a big catalyst as well just not necessarily what happens to Evan as a club but for the fan base as well to start getting those tangible things in place the the board being the board that takes Evan football club forward the new CEO if this if this thing does happen in the next week or so I think that could give the fans a big boost to say right we've got we can start doing things properly now because that's all sorted the board from last year of left got a new board and we can move forward to this with a little bit of hope that these people know what they're doing to take Evan forward yeah well it's a slow moving process you know I think we've seen that already and I think the you know it's difficult to put timeframes on it and I there's still a degree of uncertainty over how things will unfold you know I don't think we can second guess too much on that front but again you know like we've spoken about how on the pitch that there is a potential for positive momentum to build you know it's in a situation where there's a potential I say underline that word but you know it's a you know potential for things to start to move in a positive direction off the pitch as well you know a lot of things still need to happen and these processes are complex and you know the negotiations are in time and lots of different you know outcomes are still potential but obviously it's another area where there might be where there's an opportunity to create positive change so yeah that's it and probably best to see that as a separate thing to the transfer window oh absolutely at the moment you know it's still complex and complicated but you know obviously there will be there'll be movement and I'm sure that when there is the I'll be more than happy to come back to you oh yeah I mean listen it's not I'm not putting one with the other I'm not saying there's going to be money I just think for the fan base from what we saw the second half of the season the unrest the marches the protests it would just be lovely to put all that to bed and be all on the all on the same page as we move forward in a season that would please me more than anything in the world at the back end of the season before that when everyone pulls in the same direction what a club we could have and obviously that was pulled apart last season and I don't think Sean Dice actually deserves that as a manager he walked into that situation it'd be really nice if everyone was on the same page and we can start a season with a little bit of that little bit of optimism so we're not saying yep yeah you know that little bit of cynicism that all fans have we all want to be able to say that stadium's coming along that's our new board we'll see and let's just let's just have a bit of optimism Everton's great strength lies in its fan base that's where the power lies and there's no doubt whatsoever that Everton as an organisation is so much stronger when you know to coin a Sean Dice phrase I've got a Mibingo card there at Finch Farm on Thursday when he's got his press conference I'll be ticking them off but you know when the club is aligned with the fan base then you know that is a massive boost it's so much stronger and hopefully you know there's far more harmony on all sides of the spectrum because at that point you know then Everton will have a fans will have a future which hopefully they can genuinely get excited for let's hope so Joe fantastic as ever you can read all Joe's pieces in the Liverpool Echo watch your Twitter Joe underscore Thomas 1-8 there you go there you go because he loves Phil Neville that's why it was the 1-8 that's what it was that's why it took it you can catch Joe there there you go thank you for watching thank you