 Man today's episode was incredible. We interviewed Dave doll. He's the creator of Dave's killer bread One of the best stories I've ever heard in my entire life. I love this guy right away as soon as we started talking I'm like this dude gets it and his story is extremely Inspirational so because I loved it so much the giveaway today's gonna be phenomenal. Here's the giveaway today I'm gonna give away Access to maps power lift and map strong two very popular maps workout programs Maps power lift is a power lifting workout program map strong is more of a strong man inspired Workout program and here's how you can win access free access to both programs Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode Subscribe to this channel and turn on your notifications do all three things if we pick your comment will notify you And then we'll give you access to those two programs also There's only 24 hours left for our February sale So February we did a 50% off sale maps performance and a 50% off maps aesthetic now maps performance is athletic minded So if you like unconventional training if you like to perform like an athlete and look like an athlete That's the program maps aesthetic is a bodybuilder style program So if you like to build and sculpt your body develop symmetry, that's the workout for you So there's still 50% off There's only 24 hours left for this sale Here's how you can sign up if you want maps performance go to maps green calm And if you want maps aesthetic go to maps black calm and then the 50% off code for both of them is FEB 50 okay, so again FEB 50 gives you 50% off either maps performance or Maps aesthetic alright here comes a show now you have a very interesting success story One of the most interesting that I've ever heard I'd like to go back and talk a little bit about how that all Started by the way, we're all fans of your product. I've seen it for a long. I mean I mean yeah, yeah, it's really really good in fact I think Doug your mom was a huge fan. Yeah, she's been a fan for years Doug was actually telling him out in the lobby before you guys came out that I think she was she's been more excited about him as a guest than any other guests Yeah, let's go back and how did that all start how did you come up with the idea and what was the I guess the impetus? well If you talk about the bread it took a long time to get to that point, but my dad was a baker and a whole grain baker before people even knew what a whole grain was right and he was Was in the natural foods and we had a health food store Little health food store in front of our bakery when I was a kid So I was introduced to like Hoffman protein pills I used to love those that was my that was my thing. So I developed a real taste for protein supplements I liked it. I like the taste of them, you know as well as man, even the ones back to him. Those were all they were good I mean, he knew what he was doing this Hoffman guy. It was one of those. He's a pioneer. Yeah, you know Yeah, yeah way back in the day take the Beverly protein supplements and all that stuff Oh, I don't know about that. Yeah, I don't remember that but I remember the Hoffman the big thing and Trying it open good deal. Yeah, where was this? Where'd you where'd you where'd you grow up? I grew up in Gresham, Oregon, which is 12 miles outside of Portland. It's a suburb Okay So that's where you kind of got your roots in the in the baking but you didn't decide to start the business then right? That was a little later My dad had the best had the bakery and so we grew up working our asses off in the bakery But for next to nothing nobody had any money, you know, no if we didn't have money and people you got a business That's where all my so-called friends used to think but oh you got a business. So You must be rich, but it was the opposite We we survived my dad worked very hard to make and so did we to make a work so that was that and My dad was ahead of his time as far as the product, you know, nobody cared except hippies Yeah, I was like unheard of back then was this the 50s or 60s where it was Started it was the 70s by the time I was getting into it and You know my dad hated hippies he was a Nixon guy It's pretty ironic Everything about my story and my dad everything all that is ironic, you know, I hated my dad growing up Until I realized how hard it is to live and grow up and be a man, you know It wasn't till he was dead that I realized he was Pretty cool dude in his own way. So anyway, I went to I grew up and and I was a lost swole early on I Went to Seventh Avenue school. So You know, it was like every day was the Bible and every weekend was the Bible and eventually I Rebelled against that and I didn't know who I was but I knew I wasn't that and so I Went out in my teenage years and started getting into one scrape after another A lot of you know weird stuff It's probably not worth even mentioning but there's just lots of things that happened and eventually I went to prison I became a meth addict Love math first transformation in my life was a needle full of methamphetamine in my arm And did you first use it in prison or was this before you were four? Yeah? It was the reason I went to prison. But you know at first it was like You know, there's things in your life that feel like an epiphany That was my first epiphany and I Just you know, I thought well everything's gonna be cool from now on I know what's up, but I just went out became a criminal to support my habit and Went to prison four times With I got lots of stories But I mean How old were you the first time you were high to come how old were you the first time you went in? It was in my mid-twenties mid-twenties and it was late bloomer and was were you Was it were you were you carrying were you distributing? What we got what caught you the first time well the first time was burglary, and I was just an inept burglar but Got me by for a while till I went to prison and so I've got I actually look at every time I went to prison as sort of a A good thing looking back at it how it taught me a lot of things over over time and I needed it, you know Were there each each time you went in were there like pivotal things that you remember learning like the first time like this was the lesson I learned the second time I learned can you well the first time okay the first three times I was trying to be a better criminal This is what you hear a lot a lot of times people say they go in and they just learn How can I not get caught that's what you're thinking you know and you know you start looking you look up out to all the gangster types And all that stuff and you know I eventually realized on my fourth trip to prison. I finally was like okay This isn't working. This is not This is not what I meant to do in fact, I was suicidal and You know, I don't know how I made it through a few years of that last sentence But I had my second epiphany my second transformation began due to enough struggle enough adversity eventually bringing about a change and The change was I asked for help which you It's not something you You associate with prison, right? So Would you ask I asked I put in a kite took me along a kite is an inmate communication form to And I put this cotton, but it's I wrote it like Several times before I actually put it in Because I didn't I never could quite I look at it as courage now and Humility that it took and just it was just a moment of clarity where I realized I didn't have to be anything But who I am I'm okay with who I am just right now no matter what happens today I'm gonna make the most of it and from that point on it's very simple, but it was humility in the sense that I Am no more and no less than I need to be you know I can and the problem always was I would pretend to be more and And you know harder and tougher and you know all that to get by and inside I was equivering jelly-like mass and I Eventually Realized I didn't have to be either one of those Just gonna be me and I'm gonna apply myself to the next opportunity and this now this this was this something that just like Came to you and you're like I got to do this I got to write that and then who do you write this to you said? It's like a way to communicate in prison. Who does this end up going to or was it an anonymous? Well, I didn't know who it was, but I knew I knew it was psych services psychiatric services, but the person who prescribed me medication Was not a psychiatrist they were a nurse Physicians assistant so they were able to prescribe anything pretty much and he gave me this med And I was never diagnosed with anything, but I told him my situation I didn't say I was suicidal because that'd be like suicidal. You don't tell him that but I told him I had some issues and He said well, you want to try this medication and and I did it was Paxil and I don't know how much of my transformation began with that moment of putting the kite in and that humility and that kind of like new new courage Or how much was the medication and then about a month later I had been on a list for Computer a drafting which it was CAD cam they called it and I was like I don't have any idea what that is but I'm on the list for it and I've been on the list for three years and it came up right after this sort of Beginning of of a transformation I was having and it was the perfect time Because I didn't even know how to turn on the computer when I got in there, but within a short time. I was passing Everybody else up because I was I was excited about it I was and I realized all of a sudden that I'm not dumb, you know Just because I've done a lot of dumb things doesn't mean I'm not capable of doing other things No, I've heard you on a few other like interviews and During this part of your transformation was building yourself and growing Physically part of that would did you get into training a lot and how did you spend your time a lot? You know besides, you know the drafting in prison that's a good one I Always when I every time I went down went to prison. I had some sort of training that I was doing in those days a Lot of it was it was also there was the weights and you know depending on where you were at Sometimes the weights were better than other way other places, you know And you had better opportunities and more time to do it say than somewhere else It was all I was in so many different locations in prison that it was like going from Jim to Jim, you know and I I finally But one thing that I always did was I ran I would run the track and it kept me lean But I also had a pretty good physique, you know, so Those were the good old days. I Was before all the other things that at as ages kind of Brought me to a different point where I have to do like like you said I have to modify my training to fit what I'm capable of doing But in those days, yeah, there was training running I Was definitely one of the best physics on the yard not the biggest but one of the best physics How do you feel I would love to ask someone like you this question because a while ago there was this controversy around weights in prisons and oh you're in California they removed them because they said oh We don't want the inmates weapons to get too big and strong or use them as weapons now for someone who understands the Positives that just in how empowering it is to improve your your health and your fitness and not just that but also have something You could take away if so people look forward to it and say okay I don't want to be a particular way in prison so I can work out. I thought it was a terrible idea Do you agree with that? Do you see it as a positive? Well, this is the way I look at that I even heard that particular question asked although when I look at You know when they say take it away, you know take it away That's not that's not the way to do it Okay, maybe You build yourself, maybe you prove yourself on another accountability line you go I am maybe I'm just doing push-ups now because they're not gonna let me use the weights Maybe I'm doing that, you know, maybe I'm walking around a pillar and I'm doing a push-up and pillar again Two push-ups so this is 21 to just see how many people make it through that, right? It's that was the kind of stuff we used to do we do whatever we had to do Later on But I was always like bummed out when they started Taking the weights and making them more restrictive and less time to use them and I Just think that everything should be Given to people when they're ready Each time you went in Was it did it get easier for you to serve the time or do you have like a moment that was like one of the scariest Times and in present and was at the first the second the third fourth like There was some scary times there's some fights and stuff and and things that You know when you end up going to the hole that's that sucks It's more about that's solitary confinement. Yeah, okay It's more about being able to take being it's more about your opportunities and when like when you're working hard and you Find something that you can you can get into that helps your time go by and you know You're getting better as a person when you can do that It kind of It's totally different than You know what would happen to me What was really bad in the first few years of my last sentence when I really had this moment of clarity about How bad things were I mean you couldn't there's no way you could say that things weren't really really bad and But the worst thing was my mind Was that what I was happening to my situations and I wasn't I was I had not learned at that point in the early You know the first three times I went to prison and the half of the second fourth time I had not yet learned that your mind is everything, you know, it all starts right right in your mind And you can control you can Create your future you guys know that but I didn't know that I didn't understand that easy Thing you know, it's it's simple, but not easy right simple but then making that change easy to understand. Yeah, were you Would you say that's the biggest difference between you and and other people who've gone through those those experiences because here you are For it for a little while their career criminal come out and you create and we'll get into this An extremely successful business like talk about a complete reversal But you're such a small percentage of people that end up going through those problems Would you what would you say is a big difference between you and them? Was it that realization that hey, I have this ability to change my life. Would you say that's I? Think I got lucky in the sense that things happened when I needed them to I don't know that everybody is looking for that The ones who are looking for that and are open and find the courage and the humility to do it Which is the big challenge guys in there, you know people in general But those guys in prison are used to instant gratification. I get I go out and do a burglary. I have what I want. I do a you know My slap somebody around take their stuff that's instant gratification, you know, you're not gonna get that in the real world In the world that we live in or that I live in now So you have to adjust to you have to actually learn to appreciate the process That was a big factor for me like you when you're lifting weights You you've got to appreciate what you're doing at the time. Yeah, I'm gonna feel great. It's 10 years So true. Yeah, you ain't gonna build big muscles right now. That's gonna take a while Yeah, and you got it. You got to love yourself. You got to be accepting of what you're capable of I being a guy who appreciates some of the aspects of Alcoholics anonymous and such There's one thing that we all it's the serenity prayer It's God brought me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference That is beautiful wisdom profound me and I always am thinking about that What do you what do you think was the most pivotal thing then for you? Did you did you read something? Did someone speak something to you? I mean, what made you transition then from the career criminal and heading down the wrong path all of a sudden? Okay, I'm gonna change. I'm gonna change. This is no longer me Well, there's this this period of time before that that happens where you're kind of just lost and you're getting like little hints of things that might Might might that you might be able to do and stuff but just as long as you have long as I had that that sense of You know low self-esteem low self-worth I As long as I was feeling that way, and I wasn't able to overcome that I couldn't I would hear all these things about Self-improvement self-help and all this I would read that kind of stuff. It just didn't stick You knew it was right, but it didn't stick until I had that moment of like well there's gonna be ups and downs there's gonna be this road that you're gonna go down and And you're gonna go this way and go that way and you're gonna struggle But now I was like I am going to enjoy the struggle I'm going to learn and the rest of my life from that point on even though I've had some doozy since then Have been I've been able to to deal with it You know and overcome it and knowing that even sometimes when I physically couldn't see that I could overcome something I knew from my past I knew inside up here That I could do it because I'd done it before I just didn't sometimes I didn't know how but you figure it out Yeah, that's that's so at what point did you decide? I'm gonna start a business Okay, that's I know you brought up drafting a bit and how that inspired you quite a bit like what what is it? particularly that you learned From that and then we're able to kind of take that momentum with you back to the real world outside, you know me Okay That's a big deal another big part of the transformation was Was applying myself to what I was able to was given the opportunity to learn and For some reason drafting just fit the bill. I began to Draw Plans I I would that guitar for instance It's one of the first things I try to draw in there, you know a pretty complicated There's a lot of things to think about when you make that that's a lot of fun You know because you and what you do is you just start you start with a piece or anything That already exists you learn how to replicate it Not easy sometimes Sometimes it's not, you know, it's easier than but you work say you work with somebody who has a vision for what they want That's you know, that could be or you know it yourself Where you you begin with the idea or the end in mind and then you start working toward that end But you have to start with something that already exists like this can and but but you want this can to have wings You know, yeah, if that's the case you got to design the wings but you have to learn the can first and I Did that with lots of things in prison and I got cut short because they put me in a drug program I just oh man, but it got me out two years early on a almost ten-year sentence. So the point is To your point Justin, right? Yeah It was It was your people go, how does that apply to making bread what applies to everything That mindset your body your body your body you guys obviously have used those principles designing your body designing your Your routines and all the different things that you do in your life That's what I I just I just really internalized that process and I took it on to to bread My brother the reason why I chose bread rather than say going to work for somebody else, which was what I had intended to My brother was running my friend my dad's bakery and my brother's like eight years older than me And anyway, I did not want to go back to the family. It was just like the bridge was I did not see that bridge anymore, I didn't want to go back But I all of a sudden I started dreaming. Excuse me. I started dreaming About the bakery. It was weird like literally having dreams. Yeah. Oh, they were nightmares Is everything I could enjoy it, right? Yeah, I was like, why would I want to go back to this? Yeah? Yeah, cuz I had a whole like it's a lot of stories, but you would think bakery or What's the big deal? Right? But it is kind of in its own way and Anyway, so my brother gave me the chance he kind of has always known that I was I was a little bit creative I just never replied it, right I get out there and The first thing I did for my brother It's like a few days out of prison. It was early 2005 very early and I just went to work filling in for people that didn't make it and it was happening all the time wasn't long till I was 40 hours 50 hours a week and I Started envisioning how I was going to make these products and I told my brother look I'm gonna work a hundred hours a week You know, maybe you know, whatever a lot of hours and you're not gonna want to pay me by the hour I shouldn't have done that It turned out all right, though, I I made the spread First it was like cookies. He wanted me to update the cookies That we made for Trader Joe's he wanted to make them healthier So I desire I just replaced ingredients and I even added a new variety and Did now did you at this point? Did you realize you had a talent for this? Were you like yeah? I'm yeah, and also are you see my way to the end product It was like it wasn't even about me. It was about the process. You know what I mean? Yeah, so you had this talent you didn't know it was a natural It was like breathing to me, you know, it still is I would I would love to be back there doing it I mean were you having to I mean cuz You just said that like it was so easy, but it's like for I couldn't I couldn't bake if my life depended on it And so be as big as you how did you know? How did you know what what ingredients? Thank you No, I mean I wouldn't even know what ingredients to put with what to make it taste a certain way or to quote-unquote Make it healthier. So were you reading and studying about this beforehand or did you literally just? Just take a shot at it and start knowing what you're doing Well, I warmed up with the cookies. They were fairly simple the cookies are simpler and then then bread bread It's a much more complex sort of process and everything that it goes the science into it. It's really challenging So I did the cookies and then I guess I mean what it was is I was really just getting going I'm like, okay. I got 20 more kinds of cookies. I'm gonna make and my brother goes. We don't really make cookies We make bread you see that see that? That line over the bread line over there. That's what I want you to fill that Because he had been working all those years on creating something even though everything was some old contraption, right? That he managed to make work Because nobody had nobody had real money. So Now did he identify the talent he was like, hey man, you're kind of good Chance coming out of prison because yeah, I would think that like depending on your guys relationship Like was he worried at all that like I take it seriously No, he was worried that I would fuck up again because that's that was the history my history But he also saw that something had changed to me So he was it was in a good place, you know with it But there was that the past always is there, you know So plus I was very high-strung, you know, I was just like moving really fast and making everybody Uncomfortable because I'm just I'm just doing this all of a sudden. I'm making new products Nobody wants a bunch of stuff that's going to make them have to work harder or whatever So nobody really saw so what was to your question it was like It was easy in the same way that drafting was easy so Because I knew the process. I knew that I didn't think I was gonna be a millionaire what I knew and what and thought is that I would be Make us make a successful product. So I would improve the the families standing in the community or in the business and the community and I just that's how I saw it. I didn't have huge dreams about it. I was like incremental And I but the thing was it was the summer of the year that I got out so it was eight months After I got out that I was able to take four varieties. I had six ready to go But we said let's just do four of bread to the farmers market Things just kind of fell into a place again, this is one of those beautiful things that happens that happened with Dave's kind of bread. I They had something at the farmers market called the summer loaf It was a bread festival bread fair where all these artists and bakers around town could bring their little products It was great, you know, I mean, but they didn't have it before or since but they had it that year Are you competitive you have competitive streak? Are you competitive? Oh, well, I it's not that I'm I Just I strive I strive, you know, and I don't hold myself like Like I would hate to be in the workout have to work out with you guys You know, I couldn't I knew I couldn't compete. So There's no competitors no competition there. It's more like wow you guys. Okay, I can learn something. No, I can learn something That's a humility coming in again right there. Yeah, it's so important Humility makes it possible to learn. Yeah, absolutely. Well right now you're teaching right now. So that's good Really being you know, I'm looking at revisiting a lot of things and that's that's always good So the the company itself was there's a different name for the bread that your brother was was creating and making and what what led to the decision of It's sort of being becoming Dave's killer bread. Like yeah, how did that everybody regretted that by the way That's smart. I think that was smart marketing, you know, it's funny, but it's all natural It's like when people something you when you try too hard to To be to market something it's different than when it comes natural like that Well, you think well as genius marketing. Well, okay You go to prison for 15 years and for you know, four times for 15 years and almost dying and to beat up by the cops and Well, all the everything things and and then get out and do your thing and you'll have the same kind of marketing opportunity It's a blueprint, right But for me, I did I understood marketing in the very simplest ways terms that If you you know, you got to create what somebody wants now the thing it and there's certain features and benefits That you look for that you want to put in your product, right? And I thought that I could go and do surveys and find out what people wanted To a degree you can do that But you know the fact is People don't really know what they want. They know they want to a healthy product. They know they want, you know This this and this nest But they don't They could never tell me how to make they could never say oh, I want that bread Did you read about business to stuff or were you just thinking this? Well, I think there's a certain amount of it that comes from growing up in the family. Yeah That was we were knuckleheads, but there's a famous quote from I think was Henry Ford He said if I had given people what they want I would have built a better horse carriage Right Exactly good luck. Yeah. Yeah, that's exact. That's exactly what I'm saying Never heard that quote, but that's perfect. I was I was like that. I I wanted to give two surveys I wanted to build this product thinking using all the scientific, you know means at my Disposal, but there was no bread there was no book that talked out about how to make killer bread if I If you follow the science in the books You'll never make that bread you just won't do it Your mind's going here your mind's going there, but you won't make that you'll make the bread That's already out there right right so you make you make some of this and you bring it to this fair or whatever And cry crushes they went crazy people went nuts and it was just perfect, right? It's perfect marks I mean beautiful test marketing if you can test market a product how great, you know And if you can without spending a lot of money, you know, we worked really hard but we had we maybe wouldn't believe the kind of budget we have we didn't have one and It's my my nephew and myself. It was our project And we were at each other's throats from the very beginning and that never ended but We were we managed to get by because we had a common goal in a sense and We would take the product to the market and people would freak out and you go well wait The farmers market's gonna end. Where am I gonna get this now? Oh I thought you'd never ask tell your tell your Tell your story that you go to tell the manager that you need to spread and Tell your friends to tell them and so forth. That's that was how we got the word out. I was getting News write-ups media stuff. Wow within all from the farmers market. Yeah within miles and then I just Cascaded. I mean you would not believe the The swell of attention I got in those days. What year is this? What year is this? 2005 was kind of the beginning of it 2006 was really starting to and it you know what I mean each year was like growing by double triple quadruple At what point were you like this is crazy? I'm gonna be making a lot of money. I Couldn't imagine making that much money because the margin was so low. Sure and you have to sell a lot of bread. Yeah And but we could see so here was it. There was one thing. Okay. Skip to say 2007 and Costco is saying hey My customers keep saying they want your bread right and And I'm like we're in this little place, you know, we're 15,000 square foot place Which is pretty small for what we're trying to do and We couldn't afford to go down for a day. We couldn't afford to move Our our business bank Was it was 2000 now it was getting to be 2008 by this time right by the time that we I started really thinking about trying to pursue this idea of Costco and We knew that we were gonna have to move to a much bigger facility We're gonna have to buy all these all this equipment all these things we were gonna have to do and We're just three Three hillbillies. It's gotta be scary. It's gotta be scary as hell right exciting but scary Scariest Gary because you don't know. Yeah, you don't know. You don't even know because first of all, it's 2008 Down-turned the economy. Yeah, I didn't see it because the product just kept going going going. Nobody nobody cared, you know it was the most expensive bread out there, but It was a lot, you know, they weren't gonna buy their boats and their you know toys But they weren't gonna buy their bread. That's what I found out. So it's the Cadillac of breads. So anyway That was it was something that we had to do and we never took a break on on making bread We were making it in two places for a day or two and But we finally were able to get a loan through someone who was willing to take a chance on on a startup kind of a startup company in a sense in that way Even though we've been around for 50 some years It was a new it was a new line within an old company And so that was the answer the long answer to what you said which was Why did you start a business or you know how did that come about I didn't actually start with and I wouldn't Have chosen to start one I would have been happy to go to work for somebody and just kick-ass and just be the best Employees they ever they ever had you know what's interesting about this is that? Going through what you went through a lot of people most people I think would look back and say man Life dealt me a lot of challenging hands. I'm unlucky It's just life sucks. This is what happened to me and look at my circumstances. I'm a victim But you've said something now several times which I find is interesting where you say it was just perfect timing Things worked out you have you have this ability to look at your circumstances focus on the positive Opportunities that seem to pop up for you and you you make it sound like it's chance or this is what happened I was lucky you make your own luck. You I was just you could totally go in the opposite direction I say how unlucky you are and how terrible things were and you wouldn't be here You know I have plenty of plenty of things that trip me up over time So yes, you know because you think you got it figured out, right? I mean I'm just to carry that a little further you And say 2008 again kind of an important year I was I was writing my story down and putting it online. I mean we finally had is before Facebook So it was we had my I had my space and I had And then we were able to develop a website in-house my nephew was tech savvy enough to do it. So we we had a little Dave's killer bread website and We had a lot of fun with it like we always had fun with things in those days But These were things that were you know slowly but surely happening, but I was I was writing my story down And people were like because everybody okay originally on the back of the bag The common sense thing was to me was I had to tell people who I am because my brother You asked how it became Dave's killer bread. My brother wanted to call my bread Dave's friend Which was really a dumb move on his part Because he didn't know how much he's like well Dave's so humble he won't go to his head I didn't think that believe me but So anyway, and the whole idea was that we talked to his copyright attorney and he was like because we knew we had a good product People were responding very well And the copyright attorney says You know his great product. I love your product, but you got to come up with some Packaging stuff you gotta you gotta come up with a logo and here I am like it's always this challenge like okay I could be like I'm defeated. I gotta go find somebody to do this instead. I just did it right the guy I'm sitting across from I'm drawing up this idea and I draw this big guy. Well, it wasn't even big You know, but bigger bigger than me and you just don't mean it wasn't about how big he was really It was just I was trying to be kind of not me But me you know and drawing this guy with his guitar with his guitar painted on a brick wall say in an alley and The the guitar the guitar went up through the V and It still does in the logo, but Then somebody comes along with a can of reds break paint and tags killer on top of it and No, you would never get that from looking at the logo now because that's what ended up happening But my original idea was that and then also the story gotta get me to shut up there. That's story So I've watched plenty of stuff. I appreciate it. Yeah, I've learned quite a few things But I knew if we're gonna have Dave's brand we're gonna have to tell people who this guy Dave is right Oh, there you are. Yeah That's a really clever way to do that though with the whole spray paint idea like that. That's really clever It looks a lot. I mean, that's obviously you man someday. Yeah, where's a stash though? Yeah, funny though I got that good stories about this. I'm gonna say okay one important part is I Had to put my my story on the back It's not the same story you see now because now it's diluted and you know, it isn't really about me anymore so But the original story Was I was a four-time loser before I realized I was in the wrong game and That's what started it and then I just talked about my transformation in prison and how I ended up making bread and People loved it so much that they wanted me to you know do all these things like They wanted me to speak to all these different groups So I started doing the Rotary Club circuit in 2009 did every Rotary Club because they all once you do one You gotta do them all and then but it was it's just exposure and exposure and exposure and it just promoted the bread it promoted a good idea and a good, you know good community vibe and Then all the employees that I hired there were ex-fowlans and all that stuff was natural It wasn't like let's do a market this through this marketing move. No, it wasn't like that. It was like Make sense. These are some good guys. Some of these are some good people. You got to pick the right one How could you have imagined going through that period before obviously the success here? How could you imagine that I was getting you ready for this? You know what I mean? You're going through shit and The whole time obviously looking back you're like that was getting me ready to do this. Yeah In fact, we talked about the dreams in prison and stuff. I used to have nightmares where I'd wake up sweating and just go Wow I'm okay. I'm gonna get out. I got like five more years But at least I still have a chance because of them in the in the dreams. I like killed somebody, you know Which I've never done by the way, that's just a rumor Right, yeah, your bread says killer on it. Oh my god Yeah, it's a wonder bread people And so I got so many funny stories about that but Yeah What was I I want to hear I want to hear about because you just went over it real quick But this is one of the coolest parts of thing about your story is it the Your people you employ So we're Mike down just a little bit today that way. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, so tell me about what okay? First of all, let's let's talk about an 0809 this thing really starts taking off You obviously are scaling up you guys are probably getting into a bigger facility and now you're probably having to take on Employees or hire a bunch of people what gives you your idea to go the direction you go and like how does that play out? Tell me, okay. You're talking about maybe the direction of hiring ex-fellows. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah Well, that was natural for me because of my my experience my own personal experience having seen the transformation It took place in me. I wanted to be a part of other people's transfer transformations and also be benefited from a business perspective by By those guys by those people because they can be some Amazing amazing care people. They just like they're grateful. They're you know, the white ones What's the transformation begins the humility and the gratitude and gratefulness all the different aspects of life when they become positive people And they're they're making a difference in their community Because instead of being a bad pole on society. They are a You know a push For for better things to happen so but you know I I Just knew that I had to pass this on this knowledge. So so without really Going and you know, I wouldn't write a book about at that point, but I I Remember when we were like 30 employees, right? We're and then It comes along and we need to hire Within a several months. We had to hire another 70 or 80. Yeah So we're using temp agencies to do this because they do kind of some of the homework and so forth And if it didn't work out, they're gone, you know So but what what was funny is once they realized we were hiring we were willing to hire felons They the temp agency set over nothing but felons and that was never what I wanted to do Well, yeah, because most places don't they won't hire a fellow. Yeah, so they thought wow This is an answer for our felons who are make up a lot of the list of people that need work So were you the guy who sat down and got to interview each of these phones? So imagine you probably have the best pulse on if this guy's really reformed or not I couldn't see but at this at this point I couldn't I could only try to instill the philosophy and the mentality that we're looking for but they were just sending those guys over and I was like once I realized they were doing that. I said you can't do this. I want to pick the best person I don't care if they're felons. I don't care. What I Just want the best person and and to me again, it's that accountability thing. It's always it's It's not a buzz phrase. It's not political You know, I hate politics, so I I Wasn't even aware of politics until last few years and it drives me nuts So I was happy when I was blissfully ignorant and just cause driven So I did that with these guys and well and we just hired and they they were very successful You know, not all of them some of them were big jackasses But you get that no matter what when you're hiring that many people so fast. I bet I bet you they Well, two things one. You said something about them being very hard workers because they have another chance another opportunity I have I have experience with that Managing gyms and it's true when when somebody feels like you've given them a chance and they're honest about it And they really appreciate it. You'll find nobody that's more loyal and hard-working So I'm glad you said that because I do think that that's an important thing for People to hear but I also imagine that they probably looked up to you because you were like them But now you're successful. You're the boss. Yeah, and I my job was to maintain humility and to Maintain being the person who got to this point and but better if possible so You know, that was always a struggle and you know, I Mean I used to have parties but I was drinking by this time, you know Drinking like a fish not really. I mean, I would drink a lot when I drank but I wasn't really like I ended up getting a lot worse and I Would have people over in my place at a pool and we had a lot of fun with all the guys That worked for me and it's that we were like that. I wasn't a good example at that point when it comes to drinking But you know, it was it was a lot of fun and I Was no better or worse than any of these guys, you know, that was what the deal was and And it was many years before I actually had enough money for a down payment for my house that house So but then when it got when I started making money It started really happening Costco as well, but it's the big big moment Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about that in terms of that big shift of like now of a sudden you're successful and You know, and obviously you're you have financial means to Like how did that look in terms of like, how did you how did you adjust and was that a really hard transition for you? excellent question and complicated I really Was successful before Dave's killer bread ever happened. See this was the thing Oh, I see this is the thing you need to change once I was able to get successful in my mind, which wasn't necessarily okay I'm gonna be rich. I'm gonna drive this car whatever It wasn't that it to me success was purpose and you know, real purpose and understanding Yeah, you know how I can be meaningful and how I can have meaningful life Once I realized that I was successful did the challenge after that working as hard as I was toward a goal of just Constantly getting more bread and people's bouts, you know, once once I realized, okay, once I got that that goal You never get to the end of that, right? You're always working Towards something and I loved the process again. It was the process and learning to appreciate that How you get there Makes it cool because you never have to arrive. You're already there. Yeah. Yeah, you know It's like when you guys were skinny guys at one point probably, you know But you're always arriving somewhere but in the meantime, you know to another level But you're always but you have to be accepting that well, this is where I'm at now That's what I am at right now like practice right now I but I'm way better than I was three months ago. So I just got accepted. I'm just I'm on my way So the the wave of success comes in you didn't go run out by yourself a Lambo Just have a bunch of you know, that's called high-side and we call it You know in prison we used to call it high-side when you when you live above your means, okay? And you show off and you actually learn some of this in prison. Okay. Yeah because the guys who the guys who had a little bit more going on understood that you know paper tiger kind of thing and It and so guys would get out guys I knew they'd come to work for me and stuff and they were hard workers and everything But they always so many of them had a high-side mentality. I gotta have this car Well, no, you're not gonna have that car right now. You're not gonna have that girl right now, you know And if you do she'll ruin your life So That humility was what's missing and so many of these guys humility and You know just being and not being not having to have it right now That's that's crazy when you think okay, so I mean we're just kind of flying over this but that's such an important piece that you piece that together while in prison because I've seen people forget your background I've seen athletes and people that have a huge rise of success financially And they just don't know how to manage their money because they get so excited because they had nothing And now they have so much and they go out and blow it so they don't have that It's probably so good that you went through that because who knows how you would have handled it had you not well I wouldn't have gotten there without that. Yeah. Yeah, right. Well, even to take take it even further You now have the means to buy whatever drug you want you have the means to You know to do to abuse yourself in ways that you couldn't do before and this is a challenge that a lot of people My problem this time before it was always something else, but alcohol is it this legal And so forth it was like a step above. It's not illegal, but still cause problems, right? Yeah, it's still a bad thing For me, you know, I don't get to have I don't get to drink a few drinks. That's not how it works for me So like everybody else has a little fun. That's fine, you know, and I can hang out with people that are drinking It's not a problem, but I have to avoid it. I have I have this thing It's I want to write a song about it's called the power of no and it's just you just say no every time Nancy Reagan said it best So but anyway, I just love You know not drinking But I was so bad that I was sick, you know But I also got into trouble Drinking and because I have a mental issue I didn't realize that if I if I if I'm not balanced and the wrong the wrong kinds of things are Happening in my life the wrong stressors and such I can go crazy. I can go nuts. I can be manic It's been a long time but because of that, you know the story, right? 2013 the cops I ran into three cop cars in one one sitting. Whoa Wait, hold on. What have you literally ran into? Yeah, but I mean the story is so weird It's hard to know what really happened, but I was just trying to go home. I wasn't drinking but I had a mental breakdown and It was a bad time to have a mental breakdown right there with all those cops around me So I'm still this 2013 I'm still on mental Observation from the state And it keeps me from doing certain things Did you did you develop? I mean did you develop a spiritual practice as a result of this? Did that end up moving you in that direction because it seems I mean, yes, it's it's a radical shift It's it's incredible to hear to me. It's a it is spiritual but spiritual to me is doesn't require any kind of any kind of Training and scriptures or training and belief that there's a certain thing. It's more for me It's a higher power There's obviously something going on, you know, but because that humility again kind of comes in handy because it always tells me Well, you're not an atheist and you're not really an agnostic because You're really a believer. You just don't know what it is. You're believing it It's just that everybody's got an idea what or who or how God is Mine is mine and it's very it's vague enough to where I can't I can't explain it But I can definitely Say that I believe in it and it makes a difference in my life. Yeah, that's amazing and and so now how's the business doing? They're making my bread. It's not even my bread anymore in Canada in Mexico, I don't know. I can't keep up with the whole story whether it's I can't I never I never don't see your bread It's always everywhere I go. I see it. We remember I mean I can tell you in my in the old days my wife now, but she was my girlfriend then We used to go from store to store to store to store to store to store because nobody would take care of the bread nobody was like what especially up in Seattle and first got up there these these Fred Meyer you guys don't know what Fred Myers, but Fred Meyer store had the nutrition center these managers would not They didn't want nothing to do with it. They're like, we're not touching this stuff. Nobody cares about this crap Yeah, I'll be walking in here and that you know literally I'm already I'm knowing that we're in a new area, but the point is There was a lot of struggles. I the struggles of a business You know, I don't know if I had been ready for some of those struggles without the struggles I had before you know those things that led to everything. It's one thing after another It's not perfectly linear didn't happen. Just the way it should have ever in every instance But everything that happened before matters. Do you remember? How much revenue the business was doing when you first got involved and then where it was at its peak And then you also mentioned it's no longer your bread. So I'm assuming you sold So do you remember those? It was about my brother had built the business as a trader Joe's basically a trader Joe's supplier But he had also had his own Brands that weren't really doing all that great. They were you know France some of the bigger companies were really just smashing them down. So it was like I Don't want to give a number because I don't know I can't remember the number anymore But it's in the one to two million dollar. Okay approximately. That's about where it was. Yeah, and then when we sold it We sold the first part I sold my brother sold completely out my nephew and I sold half of our interests and Or something like that at the time that was we each got like four million or something for after taxes and then it was like Then then we were still part of the company But less and less control and I was seeing things change and it was getting really It was getting tough for me because it was personal But we the second time we sold with the private equity who was half owners of the business We sold for 275 million. Holy shit. Yeah. Wow. When you saw that much money. Were you like I Never when I saw that we were gonna sell for 275 Well, you know for me it was like a huge relief because at this point I Knew we were successful But I didn't know But I was afraid it was I was actually feeling you know you guys No business SWAT the SWAT thing where you go is strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats. I Could see all of them. You know what I mean and the threats were Threats were one there were she couldn't see what the threats were you just knew they were there There's lots of things go a lot of workings And that's what I was worried about but once it once we sold it. I'm like, okay, it's off my chest But it also was sucky for if you love what you do. Yeah, baby. Yeah Yeah, did you end up replacing it with something else? Continue to have that that purpose or that right a day today. Yeah, I Suggest anybody who's listening to this wants to know what I do now go to my Instagram or go to my Dave doll 360 comm and It's not updated right now, but my Instagram shows what I do now Which is this crazy another crazy thing I collect African masks. Oh, that's Well, it's again, I'm sort of an artist, right, but not I would I don't make a living as an artist You know, I you apply art and I apply science to what I did in the bakery, right? But now I'm just love art. I love Stuff it's like but I get obsessed. It's like if I had gotten into doing cameras You know, these would be really cool. I'd be like those are part of my collection You know, yeah, or whatever those are But Instead when I made some money when I actually was no longer in the business and I had to fill my time up Yeah, oh, wow, that's cool. Yeah, those oh interesting. Yeah, and those are all antique African art Used in ceremonies and such hopefully don't got four million dollars worth right you didn't buy four million dollars Did you My wife is like, you know, you actually can't go broke still What's that one celebrity what's his name? He went bankrupt because he bought like he bought like like a dinosaur egg and like Like a skull of a you know, it's just like what's his name? He was a national what he tried to steal the Constitution. Oh, yeah, Nichols cage So is this where I mean is this where you do spend your money are you into art like that? And that's where if you were to say okay if I enjoy myself or enjoy my money Is that how you because I actually kind of expect you to roll in here with like the Rolex watch and then some fancy Gator shoes I was like what shoes are not gonna hurt my I got this war on my this been there for like two years It hurts every step I take I take it put no gators on that thing So I'm like that's what matters to me right now not hurting and So anyway, and I'm not I'm not fancy. Yeah, so what do you spend your if you're gonna spend money? Where do you spend money obviously on the art? Yeah, you know family cost money You have kids we have a lot of property. Okay. Do you have any kids? I have two daughters three granddaughters. Oh Yeah, wonderful. They've turned out great. I mean, how did that happen? My wife has four sons and It's hard to keep up with all the kids that are popping, you know, I've got another one on the way right now Are the properties investment properties or they properties you travel to like Investment properties some are like I have a penthouse right now. I'm trying to get rid of it's like I lived in this penthouse for While I was split up with my wife. We weren't married yet, but I was a kind of a bachelor for a couple years And I lived downtown in this penthouse on the top floor 27th floor of of you know of a building down there and And When when we got married she didn't bother to tell me ahead of time that she didn't want to live there anymore She was kind of right though, so what we're doing is we have this property 27 it's 32 acres now ranch farm on the river and Always loved the land, but now we got to build the prop build the house Okay, so that's what that's kind of another thing that I'm spending time and definitely money you're gonna build a gym in there Oh, yeah, and are you gonna use some of your drafting schools? So you some of your drafting skills to actually draw it up I've actually this is a dream of mine is actually to draw my own house. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I liked our archer I would jump if I was you I'd be all over learning CAD the weight is now because the CAD is a lot less a Lot more user-friendly. Oh, yeah, you know, okay, there's a lot of things that are already drawn You just pop them into place, you know, and then you can modify them to weight. Oh, cool Solid modeling is well when I left back in early 2000s solid modeling was Was the thing could you draw? I draw this can and I stretch it and make it bigger. Oh, I see. Yeah It's a lot of fun. I'm telling you and Um, I think they took all in front of it now be out of it now because everybody's already done that So the gym you're gonna make a sick gym there. I looked at your gym. I was like, okay I'll probably have a few more machines. Oh, yeah I love the size of it. No, no, this is all for filming. We didn't build our dream if we'd built our dream gym It would be 10 times. Yeah I'm not I'm definitely not down. Although you would although you would appreciate these racks that we have in here These racks are cool. They fold away completely. So they're really like squat racks. Yeah They're really stable. Yeah, but you jump on them before we leave. I'd like to see No, I ain't doing no I didn't come ready to work out Yeah That's that's cool, dude. Um, I will definitely have the dream dream gym Yeah, hell yeah And a dream place for my art Doing it right Because currently I have this, uh Long showroom in my warehouse that I built All right that I had built And if you see that place You'd be like, wow, what the hell because it's extreme is as extreme as it gets as far as taking up space So what I want to do is take the best ones move them around Move around, uh In the new play always constantly be moving them around because that's what I love to do and and make them a little less Less tight if somebody's listening right now if there's a kid listening right now who's uh, Maybe going on the wrong path. Do you have do you have any messages for them? Stuff with the kids because you know because they don't want to listen Yeah, because they're not gonna hear some of the stuff that I need to want to tell them Which is look at what kid don't want to hear about humility kid doesn't want to hear about uh You know Not getting what you want right now. We're getting it down the road, but that's I've spoken to thousands of people sometimes A hundred here a thousand like kids in a high school The high school ones tend to be somewhat receptive There's some of them the ones that already have their head on their shoulders. They can just use a little inspiration The ones that are on the struggling path I hope I give them hope You know like okay this guy because I that's when I really pull out their warts Yeah, because they need to hear they need to know how bad things were Before they got good And that if if I can do it You know, you're not going to make killer bread, but you're going to do something You know and you're going to find something meaningful in your life and that's It's what I like to uh, I like to figure out ways to instill that in the kids and so to that end I I actually created videos and stuff that I would show at my um At my appearances, if you will. Oh, that'd be cool to get a hold of one of those. Yeah Yeah, well, they're right there. Oh cool go to my youtube page Yeah, yeah, I'd love to come to your gym when you're done We'll come out there and do a little filming you promise. Oh, are you kidding me? If somebody invites us to a cool gym, we're all you guys gotta film it We'll do the whole thing. We're visiting Dave. Yeah. Oh man. That's a great idea. I love that guys. Oh, that's 100% man Well, you guys have become like a mainstay for me now. Um, since I found out who you were I started, you know, because there's so much good information and you guys are You just tell it like it is and uh, I mean you don't fight. I'm surprised We're doing the cameras are off. Yeah, we do the cameras are off. We're just like any other We're like any other business, you know, you you said something though. That's really interesting. Yeah, we talked a lot about Um, you know, we we've built this there's there's three separate entities We've we've built it in a way and structured in a way that we may sell one day And it's a conversation off air that we talk about that Oh, maybe we want to spend more time with our families and less work and and cash out, right? Um, or maybe sell part of it and still be a part one of our biggest fears is is you know Would we be able to handle somebody having control and kind of telling us how things are going to be when it's our baby You know, we we we grew it. We raised it to scale it to where it's at um, it depends on what you're what you're really all your goals are because You know, it could be that you Want it that way and you just want to break in the money at that point Uh, or it could be that if but you remember from my from my story Just remember the fact that you can be very regretful about selling and not doing it the way you should have Another thing you said too is uh about you and your nephew Being at each other's throats, but you had the common goal And uh, I mean we we we argue and fight all the time But the thing that trumps all that is the common goal And so it doesn't matter and that makes a big difference otherwise Yeah, otherwise the fighting is is more important, but it's not it's the goal Did you guys ever develop a vision and mission statement 100%? Okay. That's that's what the other thing That's important that goes in line with what you said too is the humility, right? So we're all in our 40s and so we've we've gone through the we were in our 20s Not so humble probably would have tore each other's faces Right right now everybody is we all understand that there is a common goal that so even when we're going back and forth No one ever gets that mad at each other because it's not about them. It's not about me. It's not about you It's about winning and we're both trying to win And so we recognize that even the frustration that's going back and forth Is with the same desired outcome of of winning and doing well. So well So you're way more mature than we were But I mean we we did Because we survived Our own worst You know tendencies, I guess to as we were together You know because of that vision and mission statement that we finally we didn't know what the hell that meant My dad didn't know what that meant. Like, you know, all these years nobody vision and mission. That's voodoo That's what my my brother would say and then I'd be like but but when we figured it out We got some help actually to figure it out That we needed to backtrack and go get some foundation here something that we can use as a blueprint In a sense so that we don't kill each other because we really were in bad bad shape You made it though. Well, I love you. I love your story, man. It's it's incredibly inspiring and it's empowering I think more people need to hear stories like this, especially in today's climate You know to um, you know have that redemptive Side of things like you can come back. There's too many victims. That's right too many big worlds If you have a victim mentality victim stance You're not going nowhere. No, you know, you might be able to get the government to give you some but Well, it's it's um, it's confusing empathy with uh With being a victim you can look I can hear your story and say man, that sucks They went through some hard shit But the truth is uh, the only person that can really change things is you And so you once you realize once you realize that it's a really hard thing to do because then you have to also accept that you're That all the problems you had were also because of you. So you got to accept both And move forward. It's a real tough So hearing you is inspiring because it's about as authentic as it gets like there's not a single word come out of your mouth That's not it's just what it is. Yeah I don't have to make up. I don't have to remember any of my lies because I don't tell lies Except to my wife She'll think that's funny. I think she'll think that's Well, I appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to our show. That makes me really happy You like our show. It's a good show. Appreciate you man. Thank you. I wish you all the success. Thank you