 Kanu Tribunal sacks Governor Yusuf and declares APC's Gawuna winner. And Tinnable's appointment, not lopsided, says former House of Representatives Minority Leader Bawaji. This is Plus Politics and I'm Mary Anna Cohen. The Kanu Gov. election petition tribunal has sacked Governor Abba Kabeir Yusuf, declaring the all-progressive Congress candidate's Nasser Gawuna winner of the March 18 election. Yusuf, who contested on the platform of the New Nigeria People's Party NNPP, was ele-declared winner of the election by INEC. The court has deducted 165,663 votes from Governor Yusuf's total as invalid votes, stating that the ballot papers were not stamped or signed and therefore declared invalid. The NNPP has kicked against the judgment, vowing to appeal it at the court. Joining us to discuss this live is Ladi Pat Johnson, is the National Auditor and Chairman of the Disciplinary Committee of the NNPP. Mr. Johnson, it's so good to have you join us. Good evening. Good evening. Thanks for having me. Interestingly, one would have said it would have been better for us to be meeting on better circumstances, but for the NNPP, did you see this coming? Well, we, honestly, we didn't think this would happen because we felt the case was very clear. The APC went to court stating that there was overvoting, violence, and all sorts of things in over 1,000 polling units. They only called 30 something witnesses. And anyone that is a lawyer knows that to prove overvoting, or what have you, in a polling unit, you need the agent or someone who was at that polling unit. So when you say there was overvoting, there were all sorts of things in 1,000 units and you only called 30 something witnesses, we knew for certain that all things being equal, the petition was bound to fail. Let this happen. And I tell you, Marianne, when you say you are deducting 165 plus votes because the ballot papers were not stamped or signed, you have to, there are two things relating to that, which gives us confidence regarding the grounds of appeal that we will be filing. One is that those 165,000 ballots, the section 63-2, 63 subsection 2, or the electoral act 2022 states very clearly that we're a presiding officer that's at the polling unit, feels that a ballot, sees that a ballot is not stamped or signed, and but knows that it has come from the pad, you know, the voter's pad where all the ballots are, then the presiding officer shall, it doesn't say may, it says shall use those ballot papers. Okay. Now, what's the question that raises is why didn't the agents reject these ballots when they were being counted on election day? That's one. The second aspect of it is that these ballots, is it only the NMPP votes, these ballot papers, this is only the NMPP votes, they affected, and if you remove a hundred and, sorry, the second part, very importantly, is that these ballots, this issue, they were not tendered during trial, right? The APC had closed their case, they were tendered from within the bar, that is what we call it, when the lawyer presents it, that means we had no fair hearing, we were not able to cross-examine on the ballots and the papers that are presumably stamped or signed. You're saying that your council was not privy to these ballot papers, so you didn't, you were not able to authenticate what the APC said? The council objected, but the judges, in their own wisdom, felt they would still go ahead to admit these things, and when we are admitting documents like this, they should come from the person that has custody, that is Agnec, but that wasn't done. So I will not, I don't want to go too far on that, because some might say the matter is subjudice, it's still in court, the process is there, you know, but there are grounds for us to appeal this judgment, which we believe has brought about a travesty of justice. Let's talk about the politics of it, and for now, stay away from the case in itself. We heard what the governor said right after this verdict was given. We hear that he even called for a 24-hour curfew just to make sure that there was some relative peace and calm in the state, but I want us to quickly take a, I want you to take a listen to what the governor elect, who the court has actually ordered Agnec to issue a certificate of return to. Let's take a listen to what he has to say, and then we'll come back and talk about the politics of it. Okay. We have demonstrated it by bringing in invalid ballot papers, 165,000 of the ballot papers, and the court went through these ballot papers one after the other, and confirmed that these ballot papers were not signed, stumped, and dated, and the law says it shall be signed, stumped, and dated. So all these three must be there. To clear the candidate of the petitioner as a winner of the election, even though it's not a party to the matter, there are so many things in the matter, but the tribunal has said it's on. We are going to conduct our client, and I can assure you that we are going to appeal against this decision, and I can assure you that this decision will not stand at the court of appeal, because the law is very, very clear that the tribunal cannot enter as a witness in the matter. As human beings, the judgment may not be absolutely perfect. There are errors and misapplication of the law as pointed out by our legal team, and that is the main reason why our constitution provides for other stages to go on with, such as court of appeal and the Supreme Court. On this note, we have already instructed our legal team to appeal this judgment as soon as possible, so as to ensure that justice is done to the good people of Kano State that elected us. Mr. Ladikbo, you heard what the governor has said, so let's talk about the politics now. Governance one way or the other is going to be affected by this change, this change that has happened. I want to point to a situation, a similar situation, Liali Moki of Kastrovis State at some point was sacked by the court. He stayed in office and pursued that case. Could this be what would play out with Yusuf? Definitely, I have no doubt about it. By God's special grace, the governor will remain in office because we will file the notice of appeal, the appeal and stay, the motion for stay of execution of the judgment. And I'm sure INEC has a practice, once they know that it is going to go to appeal and it is filed immediately, they will wait till their appeal is over, the process is over before they withdraw or issue any certificate of return. To the politics of it, Maria, the good people of Kano State, especially those who voted massively for the NNPP feel some form of deja vu. They remember 2019 that this was what was done to them. They voted, they won that election and then the judiciary declared, the tribunal declared it, well, in conclusive, I don't know what's wrong with my brain. They declared it in conclusive. Now we have this and you know you will recall that about a month ago, I think the lady, the female judge, I think she was the head of the panel, shouted out that people were trying to reach out to her with financial inducements and it was in the press and then we had nothing about it. She didn't name those who were trying to reach out to her. And so you see the people in... Mr Johnson, are you still there? Mr Johnson, can you hear me? Are you still there? I think that we have lost that connection with Latika Johnson. Mr Johnson, I'm so sorry, Mr Johnson, we lost that connection for like a few minutes. So can you say what you were saying? Two minutes? Yes. Where did I, where did you... You were talking about, you were talking about the lady justice. Yes, I said the lady, you will recall, made a shout out that she was being sought after for with inducements and nothing happened. We said a lot in the press about it, nothing happened. Nobody asked her, the judicial council did not ask her, but which senior advocates reached out to you? Who are these people? So with all these things, naturally the people in Kano felt that there were dangerous signals and that's just why you had people making statements. Look, Marianne, the moment, I'm sorry to say I'm a legal practitioner, or the moment I heard that judgment was being delivered via Zoom, I knew there was something wrong, even before the decision came down. But what is wrong with delivering just judgment via Zoom? It's been done before. If it were that dangerous, they would have moved the tribunal away from Kano. They could do that. They didn't do that. You heard the case in Kano, you held trial in Kano, and when you wanted to deliver judgment, you ran away. You might understand it, I might understand it, that maybe the security situation or the people on the streets, the grassroots, they won't feel that way. The optics are not good. And the judiciary is on trial. I dare say that. And it's not all my late, my Leonard friends keep saying, oh, don't talk like that. That is not the issue. The issue is that the optics are not good, and the judiciary is leaving itself open to questioning. Interesting. Let me push you further. Let's talk about, because you've mentioned the Kano people. Politically, since we're still talking about the politics of it, politically, NNPP seems to have had a stronghold going into the selections in Kano, based on the notoriety of the flag bearer, the presidential flag bearer of the NNPP, talking about Rabiu Kwankwa. So for many people, they would have thought that this was science-sealed delivered. But unfortunately, this is the case. What does this say, or what does this mean for the NNPP going forward? Especially being that you've also, as a party, had to deal with some skirmishes and some, you know, had some disciplinary issues to deal with within the party. Well, Marianne, we always say that these things are sent to test us. It's not new. In 2019, we believe we won that election. But we were put to the test, was taken away from us, snatched away from us. And we were out, but we kept working. And in 2023, we came back, rebranded as NNPP, and still took the state. Now, judicially, with judicial pronouncement, look, let me even say, I'm so sorry, Marianne, let me go back to this. If you deduct 165,000 plus votes, the difference comes to, it now comes 800 and something, to 800 and something, and apparently APC is leading with about 30,000 votes. Please recall that you still have 70,000 votes rejected. Now, that means that automatically, if you go for a runoff, the judgements should not have been that it is the APC, they should have called for a rerun. But isn't that why there is an appeal so that you can make that case since? Yes, why don't you appeal it? I'm just telling you why we feel that there might, why some people feel, not like it was Johnson now, some people feel that there might be some mischief here. You understand? As a legal practitioner, I would just say that the judges misdirected themselves, did not, they gave a ruling or a judgment that goes contrary to the preponderance of the facts and evidence before the tribunal. And their decision has caused the miscarriage of justice. Interesting. That is what I would say as a legal practitioner. But you know, politicians will say other things. They will insinuate other things. And unfortunately, at times you cannot blame them for that. But I'm still going to push you on, you know, the NNPP and Kano State and, you know, the notoriety of Rabi Kwan-Kosso. This is the second time, like you said, it's happening. Could this signal? It's because, you see, talking about Kwan-Kosso, the question is why is this man so popular? Why is he so strong politically in Kano and in the Northwest generally? It's simple. It's because in his eight years as governor, he performed. The masses saw what he did in education, health care, infrastructure, et cetera. No one doubts that. So you see, there will go to any length to try to ensure that his machinery, that is political machinery, is brought to a standstill, is brought to a halt. But I say to you, Mary Ann, that is just a joke. It will not happen. All these things strengthen us. Because we believe that we're there. The Kwan-Kosso ideology is about the man on the streets. We believe that we're there for them. And one day they will get up and rise up and realize that the people in government have weaponized poverty. And made it impossible for them or difficult for them to make the right choices. You see, when a man is hungry, it's difficult for him to make a democratic choice. Because when he's hungry, these people come a day to elections with money, Indomie, Ankara and different things, rice and give to them because they've made them poor. And in the last 80 years, Nigerians have become poorer under the APC. And I just say, in the last how many months from May, we've seen what has happened. You float the Naira at the same time as you're removing subsidy. This is what will happen. The Naira today is about 980 or so, 960, 780 to the dollar inflation is rising. Yet these people are so impoverished, they cannot understand that it is these same people in government that have impoverished them. That is a problem. That is what we're facing in Nigeria. They have weaponized poverty. I'll ask again, I'll ask again, will this decision, one way or another, or could it one way or another, distract from governance and delivering the dividends of democracy in the time being to the people of Kanu state, being that the governor will have to be preparing for the appeal? I think that on the contrary, you see, we're a strong and determined group. That's why people have the fear of this white, white and red army, the Kwan-Kwaseya army. We will continue to deliver good governance to the people of Kanu state so that Nigerians will see that there's a genuine difference. There's a genuine difference. Nigerians will see that. Yes, the court process will keep going on, but we're good enough to multitask. As the process is going on, we will ensure as much as possible that it does not disturb governance in any way. And I believe that at the end of the appeal process by God's special grace, our mandate will be restored and Abba Kabeer Yusuf will have his four years as governor and God willing, if he wants a second term, he will get it. Interesting. Finally, it's all calm within the NNPP as we speak, or do we still see, you know, certain people who are not happy? You know, the beauty in everything, Marianne, in everything you have to thank God, all things great and small, even with this decision, which is meant to have knocked us off our feet, it is good because you see that those who claim to be the other side of NNPP have said nothing. They're there. In fact, one of them was saying, oh, it's good. It set us them right. That's Major Abba. He said that. So now you know who the which side is the real NNPP, the real NNPP, the real National Working Committee. We are the ones that have been affected by this decision, this ill thought of decision in Kano. And we will back our governor, our candidates as a party. We will do that and render all the support we can from the national headquarters to the party in Kano State and to the governor, Kapil Yusuf as well. Well, I want to say thank you. Ladik Bahjonson is the National Auditor and Chairman of the Disciplinary Committee for the new Nigerian People's Party NNPP. Thank you so much, Mr. Johnson, for speaking with us. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Thank you very much. All right. Have a good evening. Thank you. We'll take a short break now. When we come back, we'll be talking about Mr. President's appointment and the complaints that these appointments might be lopsided. Stay with us. We'll be right back.