 Well, hello, everybody. Good afternoon and welcome to another episode of Dr. Jill Live. I am here with special guest James Maskell, and I think you'll find this particularly helpful and interesting content, especially as our world has just come out of a pandemic with isolation and lack of community. One of the solutions we're going to talk about today is how connecting with other people, especially in the midst of chronic illness is one of the biggest and most important solutions that we have to offer. And James has some really important information to share with us. Just a quick note, if you've missed any other episodes, you can find all of them on YouTube, on my channel, or iTunes, or Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcast. And you can listen to all those 100 plus episodes at your leisure. And now I would like to introduce my guest James Maskell. He has been known with so many different things, but he's on a mission to flatten the curve of health care costs. He's spent the past decade innovating at the cross-section of functional medicine and community. And we're going to talk a lot about that today, so stay tuned. To that end, he created the Functional Forum, the world's largest integrative medical conference with record-setting participation online and growing physician communities around the world. And James, I've been a part of that. You do a fantastic job. And I just love when you do those functional forums, the up level, the level of even just the excitement, the music, the way you produce it is really great because I think we can do things in functional medicine and integrated medicine that really set the bar. And you're one of the people who's always set the bar. So let me go on. He, his organization, and bestowing book of the same name, Evolution of Medicine, prepares health professionals for this new era of personalized participatory medicine. His new project, Heal Community, follows his second book, The Community Cure, and makes it easy for clinics and health systems to deliver lifestyle-focused care effectively and frictionlessly. He is in demand as a speaker and featured on TED Med, HuffPost Live and TEDx, as well as Luxuring Internationally. He lives in the Sierra Nevada with his wife and two daughters. So James, welcome and thank you for joining me today. Yeah, thanks for having me, Joe. Great to be here with you. And yeah, I'm just excited to be here on your channel. I've had you, you know, so many times on the Evolution of Medicine because such a great advocate for the medicine. And I know a mentor to so many doctors in our community. So grateful to be here with you. Thank you. Thank you. So I always love to start, James. It's like, how did you get to this path? Because the journey is always a little bit curved along the way. And I'd love to hear just how, basically, how did you get where you're at today? You've got books, you've got speeches, you've got all kinds of things you've done. And now we've landed with Community, which we'll come back to. But tell us a little about your journey. Well, it actually kind of starts in community too. So I was born in an intentional community, not far from where you live, right? I was born in Lublin, Colorado, randomly. And I grew up in England, and my parents were part of this sort of intentional community. And I didn't realize until I went to school, but the healthcare that I got growing up was actually very different than most people got. I saw a chiropractor and a homeopath and, you know, I didn't know it at the time, but that little valley where I wasn't in Northern Colorado is an organic valley. There's never been any pesticides in that whole valley. So I just, that was normal. And then I went to school and I remember being one day going to see the nurse and looking up and seeing, there was just a sticky note. It said, James, mask or do not give antibiotics without permission to mother. And there was no other notes. It wasn't like everyone had a note. There was only one note. And I was like, okay, so I guess no one else has asked for that. So that just stuck in my mind. And then, you know, as years went by, I thought my parents were insane. And I thought, you know, the regular world was normal. And my parents were just odd and didn't really think much more of it. And I went on a normal path towards, I don't know, being an investment banker. I did a degree in economics. And on that, in that degree, I kind of realized, you know, just looking at the numbers. In my lifetime, we were going to be in serious trouble with the cost of chronic illness. And, you know, I came out there, I took a job and I thought, this is what you do. You work for a bank and about six months into it, I realized this is not what you do. And I just had a moment realizing like there's something about my, you know, my childhood, and it was kind of relevant. And I wanted to like pursue something that was interesting. And I also kind of knew at that point that I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I'd seen my cousin run businesses and it just looked like a lot more fun than what I was seeing in the bank. So I quit my job, which was like a very sort of elevated path towards, you know, financial success. And I quit my job and I moved to rural Georgia to try and understand chronic illness. Like where does it come from? Is it reversible? And under what circumstances is it reversible? So that was 17 years ago. So 2005, I was 24, moved to America. And the first thing I did is I worked in a clinic. And I saw a provider, you know, very similar to you working there. And I saw chronic disease being reversed. And it was amazing. So I worked there for a year and a half. I was kind of running the clinic. There was a doctor who was sort of like the head clinician. And, you know, not overnight, but in three months, six months, nine months, 12 months, I saw people, one, visibly different, right? Like a very different looking person that I had seen the first time. And also, you know, no longer on their medication and, you know, very excited about this journey that they've gone on. And I kind of, because I was also in the world simultaneously, I realized like not many people know that this is possible or happening. You know, that doctor was a great devotee of Dr. Merkola. In 2005, that was like a strong source of information for, you know, providers like you and doctors like that. And he was running his practice. And that was the beginning. You know, that was the very beginning of starting to think, okay, chronic disease is reversible under the right circumstances. And then the next thing I wanted to know is like, is this a one off or are there other people doing this? And that was the sort of the beginning of the next part. Wow. That I love that because you like we're immersed in clearly, you have a systems like processes mind with their background. And then with this, because what I've seen from my perspective, looking in at you is you see a problem and you like have great ideas for solutions. And not everybody, that may seem really simple because it comes so natural for you. But I think you see these big pictures and you see you forecast you like probably believe the financial background, you're very good at looking into the future and saying, this is where we're headed. And if we don't change or do something differently. So I already see that and you've done it in many different areas, but clearly way back then you were already looking and saying, there's some, this is different. And I have to laugh about your family and what you just shared, because I grew up in a similar kind of thing. My mom was a nurse and very holistic mind to be at like a half acre garden. So we had a lot of our own food. And I didn't know as any different, but I remember the dentist like we didn't get x-rays, we didn't get fluoride. And you know, I was this weird kid that like, what is wrong with you that you don't get a lot of x-rays on your teeth every year. And granted now, probably that's the minimal exposure of all the rest of the exposures we get. But I remember those things just like your note with the nurse, I had these things that my mom didn't want and get x-rays and we didn't get fluoride treatments. So totally get the childhood. How grateful are we now, the foresight, you know, like how, how did my mom in 1987, you know, could, how could she predict the downside of the overuse of antibiotics by like 30 years? I mean, it's amazing. The answer is wholism, right? The answer is being able to see that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. And if you, you know, if you kill off all the bugs, then there's going to be some downstream, you know, side effects. It wasn't science at that point, but it was logical. Yes. Yes. And I love that that both of our mothers actually kind of followed their heart. And they did actually created in us this not only passion, but probably a little bit more resilience in our physical bodies too. So from there, you obviously got excited. You started to see, when did you like connect with, and I love that you's personalized, there's functional, there's all these terms now. And I think that all of the directions integrated was kind of the old term, it went to functional. Now it's more precision personalized. And the word that used in your bio was participatory. So how did you find functional, like the crowd, the crew, the tribe after that clinic? Well, so yeah, I took a job basically selling to doctors like you, because I wanted to one, I wanted to learn. And someone convinced me that the best way to learn and also to make money was to go and sell because I could go and ask questions and I got some sales training and I had a mentor. So I took a job with a supplement company that sold to doctors. And so, you know, my, my, my, my sort of base was acupunctures, chiropractors, naturopathic doctors, nutritionists and every so often a medical doctor who would sort of jump ship. And, and so basically the next six years was the deepest, broadest understanding of all of that stuff, right, from Ayurveda, homeopathy, naturopathy, integrative functional, even the payment systems, insurance, like the licenses, the state to state different shifts, like I learned it all. And I put 100,000 miles on my car in the first three years, my territory was Virginia to Maine. So I had the holes. And I learned, I just got the deepest understanding. And that also included me putting on a little events for practitioners. I realized straight away that like, clinical knowledge in this space was this sort of black hole or black box where you could never know enough. It was always changing, always moving. And there was just an unlimited amount to know. So I realized like, okay, I'm going to sit in the lectures and I'm going to learn as much as I can. But ultimately what I saw was that it just so happened that the clinic that I'd worked with first was very, very, very well organized. And everywhere else that I went seemed very, very, very disorganized. And so my gift was to come in and say, hey, I'll help you like work out how to run this properly marketing and, you know, patient flow, but you've got to use all my supplements. So I was good at selling it. And I'm, you know, started making some money. I was on commission. And then eventually I moved to New York two years into it. And then in 2010 was the first time that I went to a proper conference. It was the integrated healthcare symposium in New York. And that's when I saw Jeff Bland speak for the first time. And I'd heard of him and I heard people talk about him. And I'd heard about functional medicine, but I didn't really know what it was. And as I sat there, I was like, you know, I could see that unlike everything else that I'd done up until that point, most of the people in that room were MDs. And they were like hanging on his every word. And I was like, okay, this, this is interesting. And as I went back to that conference every year, what I started, I started to learn more about functional medicine. And the thing that really clinched it for me in 2013, I sort of realized, I think functional is going to be the one or is the most valuable is because I saw Christie Hughes present. And I saw for the first time the matrix and the timeline and everything. And I just realized like, what I'd seen so many places is that because all of these different providers had their own little weird language and they didn't speak the other languages, there wasn't really like a unifying something for all of these people to come together. And I saw that ultimately these groups needed to be unified because ultimately this was the future of medicine, like, you know, creating health was the future of medicine. So around that time, I started thinking about functional medicine. And then right at the end of 2013, I'd put on probably 100 events for practitioners over those six years from, you know, 10 person events in yoga studios to little events and hotels and everything in between. And I had started, I had had an opportunity to like get some speaking gigs as a practice management speaker. And that's when I realized like, I'm not going to wait for to get picked to pick on some stages, I'm going to make a new stage and that stage was the functional forum. So February 2014, we had Daft Punk as the intro music, we had Kelly Brogan as the speaker on the first one, I was the host, and we tried to create something cool and fun and aspirational so that if a doctor watched it, they'd be like, oh, I want to do this, this looks cool. And that was that was the initial energy of the functional forum that was nine years into the plan at that point. Well, and that's what I was coming on me at the beginning is like the production was like top notch. And a lot of times in this field, boring lectures, boring slides, there's not a lot of production that contents good, but you took that to a new level. And I think you were in the first people who did it. And it did really attract. I also love that you're seeing that future. In my perspective, a little bit similar in the sense of there's this allopathic medicine I trained, but I always knew I wanted to kind of combine the best of both worlds. And I remember seeing, you know, Dr. Andrew Wiles program and all these alternative, they called it in the, you know, 80s and 90s. And but it wasn't connected. It was this or this. And they were very dichotomous in like, we don't like these guys, you know, there was like, not this connection. And I remember thinking, which a lot of docs are just like me, I'm not unique, but I remember thinking, I want to infiltrate the system. This is the best reimburse system at this moment. It's still not very good. We're going to go there in a minute. But this is a system that is predominant still in the US. And I want to change the trajectory of the system, which is kind of aligned with what you're saying. And the big thing about functional medicine was for the first time, it wasn't something that I referred to a massage therapist or an acupuncturist or referred out. And I knew that that existed. It was actually something that I did as an allopathic doctor in the detective work of solving the patient's problem. So it was the first time that I had tools that I could use in the office and expand my previous toolbox of just surgeries and medications. So love that you frame that. And then again, bringing people together. So functional form, highly successful. Again, I've been lucky to be part of that several times. Then where did it go from there? Because you wrote the evolution of medicine and then take us from there to there. So, you know, about three years into it, we built this big audience. We're really the first people to put functional medicine education online for free. Then it was like, okay, what, you know, I guess what I was seeing was there were a lot of doctors out there that were coming to the trainings, but still had a day job doing normal medicine. And I was like, we got to speed that up, right? And, you know, just around that same time, because of the content that we created, it was sort of clear that, you know, things had changed. And maybe you could actually build a practice for a lot less capital than it used to, because you could do a lot of stuff online. You could do e-prescribe on the supplements, and you could have an online scheduler. And so like all these things that used to be like extra capital requirements to start a new practice, it was kind of maybe easier, and you could start one off a laptop, you know, in a co-working space. And so I wrote the book, The Evolution of Medicine, and the goal was, if I gave it to a doctor, you know, would they read it and think, I want to do that. Same kind of idea, right? Let's try and accelerate this and make it easier for doctors to start their own practice doing it. So that was 2016, sort of three years into it, the forum's still going, we did a bunch of like virtual summits and that kind of thing. I took a couple of years where I started to really think about like, I've always been interested in sort of like this cross-section of community and functional medicine. So, you know, the functional forum became a worldwide network of meetups, and it still is that of doctors getting together. I took it sort of a moment where I felt, okay, what is, you know, maybe the biggest issue is that everyone's insurance sends people to allopathic doctors first. What if we could have an alternative to health insurance where people could see, you know, a natural provider or a functional medicine provider as their first port of call, and that was new health, which exists right now, K-N-E-W health. And it was cool, but again, I kind of got into it, and I realized like, it's not quite what I want to be doing. Like, what I'm really care about and what, coming back to the original vision is, how could we reverse chronic illness at the scale that exists? And it exists everywhere, and it's only growing and it's getting worse. And, you know, that took me to a place where I realized like, the one thing that I had seen, like ultimately, if every doctor became a Jill Carnahan, you know, it would be, you know, there would be an incredible standard of care, but there's also like a resource mismatch, right, in that functional medicine delivered in the way that it's currently delivered, you know, it's too slow to like, become a standard of care, and therefore not everyone could get it. And so it's just like, really could put that in perspective for the listener. For example, when I did family medicine, I saw 30 to 40 patients a day. Now, at a really, really, really busy day, I see eight to 10 patients. So you can just put that into context. I wanted to frame it, and that's really, that's a lot of patients for the average functional medicine. Some of them seem three or four a day. So, yeah, yeah, and look, I mean, it's valuable and look, people need it, obviously, and you do, you know, it's incredible that, you know, people with, you know, really tough chronic illnesses can recover under, you know, that kind of support. But ultimately, like, if you want to flatten the curve of healthcare costs, right, we've got to think in a different way. Yes. The one thing that I had seen during all of my time that really resonated for solving that mission was essentially group, group models of care where groups of people could support each other in implementing these protocols and getting better. And so I wrote the second book I wrote on a school community cure. It's right here. And, you know, when I wrote that in 2019, my plan was I was going to go to all these hospitals and I was going to say, hey, look, you should be doing it. And now it can be profitable and it can be scalable and you don't need to hire so many doctors and look the Cleveland Clinic and doing it and all of that. And then COVID hit and it was like, there's no groups. There's no alcoholics anonymous. There's no outreach is anonymous. There's no functional medicine groups at the Cleveland Clinic because people can't sit in a room together. And while that was like initially a big barrier, what I kind of realized too is that a new world was opening up where maybe it was possible to do it online. And that's what I've been doing for the last two years now is what we've created as a way for mainstream health systems. So hospitals, big clinic, allopathic doctors to sort of deliver, I'm calling it like functional medicine light, right? So it's the behavior change, it's the food, it's the stress, it's the sleep, all the things that are sort of like the minimum viable protocol that you give and deliver that to as many people as possible. And that's that's where we are today. I love it. So say I'm a doc, I'm in, you know, Cleveland Clinic or Mayo Clinic. And I maybe I've heard a little bit about this and I'm overwhelmed with patient load and patient compliance and I want to help more people. If I were to ask you, you know, James, what do you have to offer? Tell me more about this community. Cure, how would you describe it to me as far as how could it be implemented or used by someone like, you know, a doc who hasn't really done a you know, purely functional model or someone like me who has? Tell me. Yeah, well, for like, you know, like you said, like the average doctor who, you know, what here's what I found you know, is that only about five or 10% of doctors have really got their head around what functional medicine is. But 99% of doctors know that they want their patients to do the healthy behaviors. They just don't know how to do it. There's no plan. It's like they don't have any support system, right? When you do a prescription, there's a pharmacy and there's a pharmacist and there's a, you know, text you every five minutes to get your refill. There's a whole system to remind you to do that thing. Whereas if you say, hey, you know, you've got to change the way you sleep, you've got to change the way you've got to, you know, get a supportive community, you've got to like, you know, go to bed early, you've got to, you know, do these meditative practices. Good luck, you know, and there's no support structure. So what we've provided and what we've created is essentially a completely scalable support structure where any doctor could now say, okay, I'm going to have this. I'm going to prescribe it and we take care of all the details of running it. The doctor makes money so they're happy and ultimately, you know, that the insurance pays for it and even Medicare and Medicaid. So, you know, it's really about trying to find a way to give this kind of care to patients because what we've seen is that once patients get into a community of other people that are like also searching for health, that they sort of look, they just learn from each other and, you know, one of them will say, oh, you've got to follow Jill Carnahan. And then suddenly they're listening to your podcast and they're learning from all your guests. And what you really just need to do is sort of flip that switch into participation, into participatory medicine. And then there's, you know, then they're sort of, they're on their own trajectory and this community supports that. So, you know, one of the biggest things that we found is that when you look at people who have a chronic illness, the number one thing is that it's very isolating to have a chronic illness because you can't interact with the normal social structures of pizza and B&I on Friday if you're trying to reverse your autoimmune condition. And so by creating new communities and helping those communities thrive together, you know, the name of this podcast is the quickest and easiest way to heal from a chronic illness. It's to be with other people and do it together. Wow, brilliant. And it so goes with the data supports. I mean, we've known from AA years ago of why the success of groups like that is because all of a sudden people who have similar things, but they think they're all alone and they're overwhelmed, they come together and the number one here stories of like, oh my gosh, you're just like me, you're struggling with that too. And then number two, they often have ideas and those ideas help each other because they're new and different. And then again, that community essence is just, I think this is absolutely the future. So you mentioned something and glossed kind of over, but I wanted to pause and go back reimbursement. That's huge. You said this group is reimbursable. Are insurers and Medicare Medicaid just becoming more aware that groups do work? And how have you gotten reimbursement for this? Just following the rules, you know, the rules changed in 2021 and it allowed, if you think creatively, you know, have this happen. And we, you know, I'd spent enough time around the previous rules because I've been helping doctors to run group visits, you know, for a long time. And yeah, in January, 2021, because of the pandemic, a number of things really changed that gave the doctors more flexibility. And many, many doctors chose to interpret those rules in many different ways. But I saw an opportunity where we could like, you know, have where we could sort of attach ourselves to an existing clinic. They could just prescribe the group. We could run the group. We've become like an extension of their care team. And so that's how we're running it so far. If people are listening to this and you want to join one of those groups, if you go to healcommunity.com and you let us know where you're from, we'll, you know, tell you if one, you know, opens up in your area, because, you know, we're trying as hard as we can to get as many doctors as possible doing it, you know, primary care, family medicine. We recently just signed our first hospital system. So, you know, we're on the path and, you know, the good news is, is that the incentives line up right for the hospital system, they can actually make more money prescribing this group than prescribing drugs. And so, you know, I think a lot of times the system has worked to kind of reduce access to this kind of care. And I think just in the way that we're doing it, we've kind of like aligned all the incentives in the right way to get people this kind of care. James, that's tremendous. Because that's again, usually there's one hang up with reimbursement or this or that. And the fact that, and interesting how this goes, this is how life tends to be, right? The pandemic, which could have been this like, oh my gosh, we have this community cure and it's not going to happen because no one's talking anymore. But the truth is, it actually opened up a door in 2021 with the new legislation that actually, did it make it more accessible virtually? Is that part of the work? Yeah. Part of it is the virtual care is reimbursed the same as in-person care. And then part of it is that there's rules around like what actually has to, what does the physician have to do face to face and what else can the team do? Got it. Okay. That's how in our model, it's actually health coaches who run the group and the provider is really just there in small increments to monitor your medication. And it actually works quite well. Like we've had, as an example, like we've had chronic pain groups, right? Before the pandemic came along, chronic pain was the biggest issue in America, oxycontin, overuse of opiates. So in this model, a group of people can work together on their pain. Pain is biopsychosocial. Lonely people actually have higher pain scores. And then they're working on their sleep and their stress and their food. They're eating an anti-inflammatory diet, reducing their pain. But also that doctor is checking in every month and saying, hey, maybe you can move to a lower dose or maybe you can come off. And that's amazing. That's what I'm here for. Tremendous. So you mentioned healcommunity.com. We'll of course link all the in the show notes or wherever you're watching or listening to this, you'll have access to the web links, but I just want to repeat that. That would be patient maybe in their area looking for a group. And if you have one, you can connect them. But more importantly, if you're a physician, a provider, a mid-level, anyone that's listening and they're like, I would love to have this for my patients. Why don't you talk for just a minute to the provider? Like what can you offer? How do they connect with you? Tell us a little bit about that if you're a provider. Get in touch with your community. Ultimately, I recognize that there's a lot of friction in changing anything. I called my first book, The Evolution of Medicine, and I guess I expected it to happen quickly. Like, okay, as soon as doctors get it, it'll just happen. And ultimately, when I came to realize that there's a lot of institutional friction that sort of slows this down and so forth. But what we've created here at Heal Community, maximizes the practitioner's time, makes money for either the provider or the institution or the group is really efficient. And more than anything, takes the weight of behavior change off your shoulders and puts it onto the group. And that's the beauty of it. I think a lot of doctors feel like under the weight of the fact that they know their patients are not doing healthy behaviors. They want them to. And ultimately, what we've created is sort of like the prescription by which they can do that. And the group is unique in the fact that what happens in the group is that there are different personality types and those different personality types kind of like egg each other on and support each other. Some people that will come out the blocks quickly and some people that are just not so sure and need to see other people do it first, but that naturally happens in the group. But yeah, you know, if you get in touch with your community, we've got a team of implementation team that can like see if it's a good fit for your practice. But pretty much if you bill insurance and you're a physician in America, we can work with you. Awesome. So last thing is just you've been very clearly good at forecasting future. Like you see, I see you as a visionary because you can see these down the road. Like, I see this problem. Here's a solution and comment it that way. But any thoughts about where you think, I guess one thing is just that COVID could have been a really disaster and it has been in some ways, but it also opened a door, I think for this kind of medicine, this kind of providing and also community to be on the forefront. What do you see in the next five years, James? Yeah, so it could have been it is it is simultaneously a disaster and an amazing opportunity, right? In that like obviously there's a lot there's a huge mental health crisis is coming off the back of it. Groups are really the only way to solve that because there's not a million more therapists, right? But there are coaches and support I mean, I've been part of a men's group for three years and I've seen tremendous outcomes in that group with no medical potential at all, you know, so we have to take advantage of this community theme. What I would say, Jill, is the big theme that's happening in medicine is that forever, doctor, not forever, but the last 40 years doctors have been paid for what they do. And what's starting to happen is doctors are going to get paid for what happens to their patients and that shift towards, you know, being paid for keeping people healthy. Essentially, I think it's going to usher in an amazing new era where functional medicine becomes the standard of care, because if you now get paid for keeping people well, then, you know, the kind of medicine that you've been, you know, leading and practicing becomes a lot more valuable because if you can get people off medication, if you can get people to not see the doctor so much, that's how you will start to make money. And that is a 180 degree shift in the way that medicine is run. And so I'm excited to see that those practitioners that really are able to get people well and keep people well will rise to the top. Oh, I love that. And just a final little story here reminds me back. When I first got out of residency, I started with the hospital system. I helped them create an integrated medical center with medical director. All was well until one day I sat in a board meeting and I was the executive director of that department. And they were shown on the screen each department and how many beds they had filled the last month, right? And I remember just looking at that, my heart sank and I'm like, crap. This is not going to be long term good because I'm trying to keep people out of the hospital. And they're, they're, you know, departmental, like, how they raise the departments was based on beds filled in the hospital. So what you're saying is there's that that's old school, right? Things are shifting. We're no longer wanting to fill beds in the hospital wanting to keep them out of the hospital. And I love that because it's come full circle. That was about, I don't know, 12 years ago. And I think things are shifting that direction. Thank goodness, because I remember just sitting there going, oh, my way of medicine is not yet going to fit into the system. And again, things are turning and shifting. But that's exactly what you're saying. James love, love this content, love what you're doing. I'm so excited to have you here just because I want to support you. We'll get this out to as many listeners and practitioners as we can. Any last final words, wisdom? Yeah, well, the one thing I'm excited to do, and I don't know whether it's coming next year or some point, you know, I've always thought the American pharma commercials are so crazy, right? So it's like, you know, ask your doctor if this might be ready for you. So expect coming soon, you know, ask your doctor if he if running a heal community might be right for you. And that I think love it. Yeah, like people who really care, and they want to be activated and want to be like a community health advocate to get in there, go and speak to doctors and get this going because ultimately, the knock on effects to society of having people in these pods and helping each other get better is powerful. Like we've been isolated. Every group has been split into because of COVID. There's a chance that we're in like this, you know, mass formation. And ultimately, the only way back, I think is to actually be with each other. And I think health is a topic where I've seen examples where people are vastly different backgrounds can actually get together and work together because there's sort of a thing that they're working on together. Yeah, and that is getting each other healthy. So I hope that this can be a vehicle for solving problems beyond chronic illness. Love it. Love it. Love it. We'll keep up the great work. Always be happy, James. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.