 Dear participants, good afternoon, my name is Nadira Bebic. I'm here with Professor Husica and at the beginning may I first inform you of the program of this webinar. As you could see in the agenda that we provided this webinar has two parts in the first part we will discuss the concept and the context. We will learn more about production and use of coal in Bosnia and Herzegovina. So we will have an overview of coal sector and energy trends in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Then we will provide you with an insight into just foundation and we will provide an overview of lessons learned and experience in the past. In the second part of the webinar we will offer several practical examples about just transition. First, we will be informed about the initiative for support of coal regions in the western Balkan countries and Ukraine. Then we will learn how Poland explained their energy transition as the World Bank is one of the main partners in addition to the European Commission which supports the energy transition. We will have an opportunity to learn about the activities of the World Bank in the transition processes in Bosnia and Herzegovina and other Balkan countries. Another key partner is the EBRD and we will also learn about the engagement of EBRD in Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Balkans. We will finish this webinar with the perspective of the energy sector. We will actually obtain an overview of energy transition and we will address some challenges and opportunities in Bosnia and Herzegovina. This is a program that we prepared for today. After the presentations we will have discussion, question and answer session and conclusions. Some technical remarks before we start as you could see today's webinar will take place on the Zoom platform in the form of the webinar. You should be aware that the webinar will be recorded and the recordings of the webinar will be available after the webinar and you have also a possibility to participate in the discussion using the option question and answer option on the Zoom application and I do encourage you to take part in the discussion during this webinar. I will hand over to Professor Husika and he is the lead expert in the walking group for energy and climate change. And the question for you, why is the energy transition important and in which way is it addressed in the ISAP project? Thank you Nadira for the question and before I answer your question, I would like to welcome all the participants and attendees on my own behalf and on behalf of the team which within the development of the strategy and action plan for Bosnia Herzegovina addresses the thematic area of climate change and energy. As for your question, I should first say that I'm very happy that we have this opportunity to discuss this topic even in an online format and this is a very important topic for Bosnia Herzegovina, given that the energy transition is of major importance for the economy of Bosnia Herzegovina because over two thirds of energy is produced is coal based. And what has not been stressed enough is the fact that coal is also used significantly for heating purposes, especially in private households and also in the district heating systems. Coal is also extremely important when it comes to industrial production in Bosnia Herzegovina as we all know, Bosnia Herzegovina has a very long tradition in coal mining over 100 years. Over this long period, the whole regions in Bosnia Herzegovina became quite dependent on coal mining and local mines, which not only provide for the majority of jobs there, but the whole economy in this area focuses and relies on coal mine. Today, with the imperative of decarbonisation, these areas face a huge challenge how to transition from coal away from coal within the given time timeline until 2050. From this point of view, this may seem quite a far future but this process is time consuming and it should have started yesterday and today can even be too late. We should not delay activities and measures in this on this path. This is why it is crucial to start this transition process and recognize the development opportunity not only for the coal areas and coal regions, but also for the entire economy of Bosnia Herzegovina. We are developing ISAP with the participatory approach and together with our members of our working group, we define measures which should streamline the energy transition and improve at the same time our environment. So we look at the challenge of the energy strategy as a development component and a component which will lead to improved environment. This is why we identified the need to hold this kind of webinar, many discussions at the level of the working groups aimed and indicated the need to hold this seminar together with our colleagues from the Stockholm Environment Institute. We now organize this webinar and I'm very happy to see that there is a huge interest in this webinar. To this end, we identified key stakeholders in this area. So today with us we have representatives of the Ministry of Economic Relations and Trade, Mr. Admi Mesic, who is the Assistant Minister and we have Mr. Senat Oprasic, who is the head of the Department for Environment in Moffat. This ministry plays a major role in these activities and now I invite Dr. Softich to address the meeting briefly and to address or to identify the challenges that this ministry meets in the energy transition. The floor is yours. Dr. Softich, can you hear us? Yeah, can you hear me well? Yes. The floor is yours. First of all may I greet all of you on behalf of the Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Relations, the energy sector. I'm honored to be with you today and as for the Ministry of Foreign Trade and I would like to thank the team of the World Bank, which together with us started working on the initiative. The Ukraine joined us later together with Ms. Rachel and Ms. Rom and our Jenin, who works in the World Bank. We successfully became a priority country for transition, for energy transition, together with other Balkan countries and Ukraine. What we do together with the team of the World Bank is that we are mapping, developing a roadmap for the transition and our plan is to have in place this plan by the end of this September. We are currently identifying the stakeholders and we will finally, ultimately define together with the line ministries of the entities the approach to this effort. May I thank the organizer of this meeting? We will have enough time to discuss this topic and to exchange, to share our experience and opinion. Thank you very much for this opportunity and I'll come back later. Thank you Mr. Softich. Thank you for your participation at this webinar and thank you for sharing with us this useful and current information about the activities conducted in your ministry. Certainly, the Department for Environment in Moffler is placed a crucial role in the transition process, as Bossa and Herzegovina is a member of the energy community and party to the Paris Agreement. And it has certain obligations to this and now I invite Mr. Senad Obrashic to briefly greet you and to inform us about the activities of his department. Thank you Professor for this opportunity to share with you some considerations about these activities that are challenging and extremely important. What is extremely important is that Bossa and Herzegovina can be independent in terms of the energy by using 6 billion tons of coal in stock if they continue mining. We also have significant water potentials but in future we need to rely on renewable energy sources because we accept it and commit it to reduce the global emissions and we commit it to use renewable energy sources available to us. We do have renewable energy sources and the transition to renewable sources from coal to renewable sources is a huge challenge. Having worked and discussed this with many of you, I got an impression that we are doing the same on several fronts and multiple institutions are engaged in different efforts. There is no joint action, common action, but this common action, a common approach could be adopted by forming a national team or a group, whatever we call it, which would comprise competent experts. Of course civil servants, seniors civil servants and ministers as appropriate who would negotiate with the international community about the assistance it needs to address these issues of transition from non-renewable to renewable energy sources. To this and the international community has available resources which we could use and ensure for our electricity companies and all others who could contribute to this effort. We are aware that the citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina are doing their best to refit their homes, to replace their roofs and to install some instruments or elements which lead to energy efficiency or contribute to energy efficiency of their homes. And they want to pay lower electricity bills, but an action of the state should also be present to this and inform of very specific allocations, fund allocations and encouragement of import of electric vehicles would also contribute to energy efficiency and mitigation of climate change. I would, my preference would be if we use this meeting and that's my proposal of course to make a proposal to form the one joint team comprising senior experts, civil servants and perhaps some members of the international community which would prepare one common platform for Bosnia and Herzegovina, which it could use to obtain necessary funds that would be used for the transition ahead of us. I read that 2250 million marks were dedicated by electroprivita for closure of coal mines, but perhaps we could supplement this dedicated funds through some other, from some other sources, international sources. Perhaps we could address the secretariat of the convention or international projects with clear ambition, how we will implement this transition. Thank you very much. I apologize for taking too much time. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Alpresic for this introductory remarks and thank you for information you shared with us. And thank you, especially for this very specific proposal, which we noted down and which we will propose as a conclusion for this meeting. I suggest we move on with our agenda and I hand over to Nadira. Thank you very much, Professor. I see that we now have 115 participants, attendees, so we should perhaps check the structure of our attendees and we will use this updates technology we have available. I will share my screen with you. I do hope you can see it. Very well. Now, I would like to all the attendees and participants to type idimentee.com and then to open this site and answer the question from which sector they come. Thank you very much. This is a very good way to see from which sectors our attendees come and we will have some other questions during the webinar that we will ask you to answer. Very well. I see that you all found the site that we are receiving answers. So far, we have most representatives of the academia and private companies. We'll wait for a couple of minutes to see the final results. You can access this application through a PC or your mobile phone. Whatever is more comfortable for you. 46 responses. I ask all the participants really to answer these questions as it is so important to have the idea of the structure of our participants at the very beginning. This is the current overview. Most of you come from the government institutions, academia, private companies. The number is slowly increasing. Excellent. So I suggest we continue with our agenda. As you can see, according to this, most of you come from the government institutions, academia and private companies on the third place. Fourth place is shared by the CSOs and public companies. And one more from the government institutions. I will stop screen sharing. I have a great honor to introduce our next presenter. That's Mr. Damir Miliowicz. Mr. Miliowicz is a member of the management board of the Center for Sustainable Energetic Transition Reset in Sarajevo. Sarajevo has over seven years experience in development of energy market and economics of the energy transition. Since February this year, he's been working as an expert for energy transition in the secretariat of the initiative for coal regions in transition in western Balkans and Ukraine. Good morning Mr. Miliowicz, the floor is yours. Good day. First of all, I'd like to greet all of you who are with us today and to thank the organizer for this opportunity. They gave me to say something about the coal sector in Bosnia-Herzegovina. I tried to give an overview of the sector. I am an economist, so my whole approach to this situation will be from that point of view. Let me first give a brief overview of the current situation in the coal sector in Bosnia-Herzegovina. As for the production of coal, we are producing lignite and brown coal and the total amount is at the level of 13 million tons a year. In 2019 it was 13.4 million tons. 94% of the coal that we produce is used for generation of electrical power and some 70,000 tons for generating heat. This is actually used in households for heating and in the district heating systems in the cities. More than 50% of the produced energy, heat energy in the district heating is the coal generated energy of the remaining amount, 130 is used in the individual households. In Bosnia-Herzegovina currently we have 11 coal mines, active coal mines, and 5 thermal power plants. This whole sector employs more than 17,000 workers, except for the thermal power plant Stanari, which was started in 2016. All other PPPs are old and different units are 31 to 71 years old, so the situation is not great. In the table that you can see here on the right-hand side in blue, you see the productivity per worker in kilowatt hours. As you can see that this new thermal power plant is three to five times more productive than our old TPPs. As for the total installed capacity, it's 4.5 thousand gigawatts and in this whole capacity the TPPs produce or generate 40%. The total production of electricity is between 15 and 17 gigawatt hours and in 2019 it was 16,000 gigawatt hours and the participation, the share of electricity generated from coal, barized year to year between 60 and 72%, depending on the methodology. What's important to say here is this generation of electricity, Bosnia-Herzegovina is an active exporter of electricity and the only one at that. So when you look at this, it appears that we regenerate more power than we consume, but the generation is not really economically and technologically top of what can be found in the world. Almost all coal mines and TPPs are not profitable. Production of coal and power is subsidized. In this period, 2015-2019, the total amount of direct subsidies in this sector of generation of electricity from coal was 167 million euros. What's important to say from economic point of view is what's the cost of generation of electricity. In this yellow table, you can see the actual costs of generating 1 megawatt of power by TPPs in Bosnia-Herzegovina. And then you can see that this range goes from 35 euros in the most modern one to 55 in TPP Kakan. When you add on top of this cost, the coverage of losses because most of TPPs are making losses and if you add the subsidies, you get the actual cost of the megawatt hour generated in TPPs in Bosnia-Herzegovina is much, much higher and on the average it exceeds 50 euros per megawatt hour. The esterics next to the TPP is to signify that this is without this new technology of desalphurization. With this desalphurization process, we need to add eight more marks. Just to remind that you have three minutes left. So when you look at all this, it becomes obvious that this power or this cost of generation, we are not competitive in the market. So the conclusion that follows from all of this is that the current generation of power from coal even with the direct subsidies is ineffective and not profitable and makes losses. The measures of improving generation can achieve something to some extent, but if you take into consideration the investments needed, one cannot achieve competitiveness even if we don't count the CO2 taxes. And the cost of all these investments will have to be laid over on to the consumers in the form of increased cost of power. So phasing out the coal generation of power from coal is not only the commitment this country undertook, but it's also the only rational decision this country can make. And this is my last slide. We have some good news to share. Electro Privrada, the power company of Bosnia-Herzegovina, started restructuring coal mines. Six local communities announced their interest in transitioning out of the coal sector. The main challenges and main issues is who will lead this energy transition and phasing out coal and what would be the role of the higher levels of government, citizens, businesses and other participants. Do we have sufficient knowledge who will invest in the new renewable sources and what are the sources of financing this transition? Responses to this question will determine the speed and success of the transition of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Milievic, for this very interesting presentation. Well, you gave your conclusion. You concluded your presentation with the questions who will lead this transition and what would be the role of higher levels of government. Can you share your opinion on how you see this process in Bosnia-Herzegovina, how in your opinion it should continue? Well, in my opinion, the current situation is the following. Higher levels of government in Bosnia-Herzegovina think that Electro Privrada in Bosnia-Herzegovina can do this. Unfortunately, Electro Privrada, our companies are in such financial situation that they cannot be the leaders of transition. Just to share one thing, the total income of all Electro Privrada is 1.9 billion convertible marks and their profit in 2020 was 19.5 million. So if you see this ratio between total revenues and profits, it becomes obvious that they cannot finance this transition on their own. And that's why I'm asking this question, because what we have on the other hand is the fact that we have over 6 billion euros in savings of citizens and businesses that is just sitting around. And in my opinion, that money should be used, of course, not the whole amount, but one part of it for this process. Thank you. We don't have any questions for the time being from our audience, so I suggest that we continue. Thank you, Nadira. Now I have the honor to announce our next speaker. A lady this time, Ms. Claudia Strambo, she comes from the Stockholm Institute, Environmental Institute. She's been working there as a researcher on the climate and energy policies. And as a part of the development of the environmental strategy and action plan, she is working on social issues, gender equality and poverty. Her presentation will concern the principles of transition and lessons learned. Please. Thank you very much, Professor. And hello to everybody. Thank you for the invitation to participate today. And so we just saw now that there are both economic and environmental factors driving the transition away from calling Boston has a govina. Now the shift will have significant implication for workers and communities that depend on cold for the livelihood. So this raises a very important question. How to navigate the shift in a fair way, how to mitigate the hardships to transition implies and how to ensure the opportunities it brings about are distributed fairly across society. And this is where the concept of just transition comes in. So this concept broadly questions how transition processes and outcomes can be made equitable. Now there is not a proofed recipe as to how to plan and implement the just transition what it looks like will vary greatly in different contexts. So we can use a set of principles to help guide practical action. And so I will now talk about seven principles that we developed with my colleague Aaron Attridge, based on past cases of industrial and many transition and existing literature, what is happening now with just transition and just let you know that there is a translated version of our general work that it's available on the project website and some additional materials in English that you can consult if you're interested. So what are these seven principles the first one is that we need to actively encourage the carbonization. So some might be tempted to postpone climate actions because it's particularly difficult because there are other short term priorities because they are limited resources, but just just transition is a transition that is in line with achieving globally a great climate goals and that a swift decline in greenhouse gas emissions globally. In addition to that, we know things will not get better for coal. So delaying action means delay transition planning and investments and at the end this is likely to make the outcome worse overall. The second principle is about avoiding the creation of carbon locking and to have more people that are dependent on the carbon intensive sector and would be affected by its decline. So here it's about avoiding investments or other forms of public support like fossil fuel subsidies to carbon intensive industry or fossil fuel production. And it's also about making sure that policies do not reinforce the dependence of other businesses on these sectors. The third principle is about supporting affecting regions so to maintain their economic vitality and stability and here past cases of industrial transition have shown that it's really important to build on existing regional and local assets. Other practical recommendations include focusing on increasing connectivity between carbon intensive regions and surrounding regions and particularly linking urban and rural areas. Another practical thing to do here is investing in universal infrastructure like transport communication education, which brings benefits and opportunities to a wider number of people. The fourth principle is about supporting workers, their families and the wider community that is affected by by by decline. And here to support workers in the transition we should use a combination of measures to help them find new livelihoods on one side and on the other side measures to ensure that adequate social protections are available when they cannot be employed. And in practice that means providing risk killing or upskilling to workers affected by the transition and ensuring that these programs are also available for workers families and the wider community. And it also means providing additional forms of personal support like job seeking support, mental health counseling and financial planning. The fifth principle is about cleaning up environmental damage and ensuring that related costs are not transferred from the private to the public sector. And here beyond the obvious environmental and human health reasons for doing that there are also an economic rational and environmental rehabilitation is also a source of jobs and it's key to ensure that the land can be repurposed and used for other social and economic activities. The sixth principle is about addressing existing economic and social inequalities. And so here that is that when we design just transition support measures when we assess regional economic opportunities or when we prioritize transition support, social equity and empowerment of vulnerable social groups must always be an explicit goal. And in practice this means for example including measures targeted addressing gender inequality as part of just transition plans. And it also means that we need indicators that go beyond the typical indicators of job creation, diversity of manufacturing, regional economic growth, we also need indicators that gives us information about what kinds of jobs are being created and who has access to them and what are the levels of the broader community resilience and innovation that is being achieved. And the last principle is about is a process principle, and it's about making sure that there is an inclusive and transparent planning process. And so this process should be based on a wide social dialogue that involves actors at a higher level of government but also local level of government. It's important because a deliberate inclusive process of social dialogue can increase public ownership and acceptance of the transition and it reduces conflict. And we know from past transition actually that engaging predictively with trade unions for instance contributes to achieve better outcomes for affected workers and communities. There are the seven principles that can help guide just transition planning and I just want to emphasize again that there are no ready answers as to what a just transition plan should look like in Bosnia and Herzegovina or what should be its aim. So this is a process where you have a wide range of such that actors coming together creating a vision making a plan together and implementing it and really the sooner the process starts the better. Thanks. Claudia Strambo for this very interesting presentation of important elements of energy transition in the view of the profession, the biggest challenge is the integration of these principles that we heard and saw in the power transition. I omitted to say before this presentation to mention Ms. Nadira said it earlier, you have the option to listen to the translation. You need to select the interpretation icon where you can hear the translation. If you need it. I have a question for Claudia. I apologize for interrupting Professor. Since our next speaker is very limited in time because he has to move on to another event. It's already 22. Perhaps we should move on. Okay, yes, Claudia will stay with us until the end. So in the question and answer sessions will have the opportunity to ask her question. Thank you. Thank you for this reminder. Okay, then I suggest we move on. We have here with us. Mr. Nikolaus Kuzos, who is working as an officer for public policy issues. He is an expert member of the main director for energy, DG Energy of European Commission. He's been a director of research in the Center for Research and Technology Health Institute for chemical processes in the Athens. And then he's a member of the editorial board, and he published over 300 articles, papers. Dr. Nikolaus, please, the floor is yours. Hello. Good morning, and good afternoon, everybody. Thank you very much for the invitation. First of all, thank you the organizers. Thank you, Professor. I would like to say thank you for the introduction to myself. It's an honor for me to participate in this meeting. And it's actually I will substitute Anna, Anna Substatt, who is the main person responsible in our unit in DG Energy, European Commission for this initiative. So, please, let me, can I have next slide, please? Can I have next slide? Thank you. So, I would like to say a few words about the European Commission Green Deal. The main purpose is to cut greenhouse gases by at least 55% by 2030. This is compared to 1990 levels. That's the priority. This is the political priority for all of us in the European Commission. And this is going to make Europe climate neutral by 2050. So, we have a logo saying that leave no one behind. And that's to support the people in cold region transition. Can I have next slide, please? So, to do that, we need to improve the quality of life of these generations, not only the current generations, but also the future generations. So, what we would like to do is to help to ensure a just an inclusive transition. First of all, second is to protect the human life to restore biodiversity and cut pollution. Third is to move to a clean and circular economy. Fourth is to help companies become world leaders in clean products and technologies. And fifth to lead by example as a global leader, because I have to remind you here that the European Commission, the European Union is a leader. Can I have the next slide, please? So, as also Franz Timmermann said, who's the Executive Vice President of the European Commission, we have to show solidarity with the most affected regions in Europe, which are the coal mining regions. So, and we need to give full support to them. Can I have next slide, please? More particular for the European Union initiative for quality of transition. That's launched some years ago, actually in December 2017. So, what we have, we have an open forum for a stakeholder dialogue with a wider community. As you can see from the map of Europe in the slide, we cover most of Europe. So, we cover 14 EU member states. And these are related, these regions are related not only to coal, hard coal, but also lignite, but also oil sales. And we have for instance, Greece, which is my country, from origin, origin country. We rely very much on lignite for the electricity production. And now we decrease this lignite production for electricity quite drastically. But at the same, at the same time, we need to deal with this coal phase out and to go to clean energy transition. The same is going to happen in Spain. In Spain, they have already established some, just transition fund for the quality transition. But you can see also the same in other countries like Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Ireland, for Pete, Finland, for Pete and other countries. Romania and Bulgaria, which are neighbors to us. So, can I have the next slide, please? What we have is, as a dialogue, what we try to do is to do the decarbonization energy production by of course, phasing out the extraction of fossil fuels. But at the same time to address risk killing and upskilling needs. And at the same time also to diversify the local economy. So how we do that, the European Commission and local administration, plus the social partners, civil society, industry, trade unions, NGOs and academies. So it's a collective work. And we need to assist the regions in this energy transition. All right, please. I can give you an example of the technical assistance that we provide as the European Commission together with the secret area for technical assistance to regions in transition and start to some countries. So we have seven pilot regions. As you can see, Czech, Czechia, Greece, Ireland, Poland, two regions in Poland, Romania and Spain. So we have already carried out work on guidance materials. So we have methodologies, reports, toolkits. We provided webinars dedicated to five toolkits. As you can see in the slide, the toolkits are related to transition strategies, environmental rehabilitation and repurposing, sustainable employment and welfare support and governance of transition. Can I have the next slide, please? As it concerns now the EU Western Balkans dialogue on Green Day. As you can see in the slide and starting from the down, we have already started the 21st of February 2019. A statement, a clean energy statement for the transition for the Western Balkans. And then we move October 2020 to economic and investment plan and Green Agenda for the Western Balkans. Finally, November 2020, a declaration of Western Balkans leaders on Green Agenda at Sofia Summit under the Berlin process. So what was agreed was agreed to fully endorse the Green Agenda for the Western Balkans to commit towards the 2050 targets of carbon neutral continent to strive to decrease and gradually phase out of coal subsidies. And of course, to participate actively in the coal region transition initiative for the Western Balkans. Can I have the next slide, please? For Ukraine, because this is an initiative for both Western Balkans and Ukraine, we did a EU Ukraine summit October 2020. So welcome Ukraine's ambitions to approximate its policies in the legislation with the European Green Deal. So we stress the importance of progress in Ukraine's commitments in the areas of climate change environment, marine ecosystem, education, energy, transport and agriculture. And we agreed on a focus dialogue on the necessary steps in this area. So we provide a memorandum of understanding that was before that. So at the end of the day, we had a ministerial meeting on the 3rd of December 2020 agreed on a war plan for 2021. Can I have next slide, please? So the main principles for this initiative of coal regions already mentioned before is the World Bank, Energy Community, the College of Europe, European Bank, European Investment Bank and the National Fund for Environmental Protection and Water Management, as well as the European Commission. And I have the next slide, please. So what is about this initiative? We have the opportunity to open platform for a region-wide multi-stakeholder dialogue with setting experience, knowledge and best practices on transition-related issues. Twinnings, exchange and transfers of knowledge, experience and best practice on transition-related issues between European Union, the Western Balkans and Ukraine. And I think it's important for me on transition-related issues providing dedicated trainings on governance, community engagement, environmental reclamation, repurposing of land and assets for relevant stakeholders. I think I have to say here that especially for land reclamation and repurposing land, this work has already start in other countries. Probably we have some very good examples from previous, from countries previous mentioned. Technical assistance, we have an expert support to pilot regions to develop transition road maps to be used and implemented by relevant public authorities. And finally access to financing for transition projects or programs. Can I have next slide, please? How this is going to be a reality? We open to all stakeholders of initiatives. We share state of play and progress of the transition in participating color regions in Western Balkans and Ukraine. Share transition-related experience and good practices originated from the regions or from other areas in the world. We have Appalachian for instance from the United States, including the European Union. Small scale events, approximately up to 50 participants organized in specific areas, regions. Open to stakeholders of the initiative with an interest in this specific area and raising a awareness about the transition at the local level, allowing for a broader participation of local stakeholders than platform of academy meetings. So can I have next slide, please? So this, all this we have put here indicate the sites, the links. So for the EU initiative for color regions transition, you can see the link, you can google everything, you can get all the information we have from this site. For the initiative for color regions transition in Western Balkans and Ukraine next, of course, and another one for color learning academy. So please, you are very welcome to see all these sites and to make your comments and to also even to tweet to the European to energy for the energy of the European Commission. And we are here to support. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for taking the time to stay with us. I will try to use these five minutes before you leave. And I would like to ask you a question when we discuss the beginning of planning for transition. What do you think are the main challenges with within this initiative? The main challenges. We have some examples from the European Union from other countries. So the main challenge now in this initiative is to transfer knowledge from other countries. There are countries like, for instance, Germany, Belgium, even France, central European countries, they have very much worked on call phase out, even 20, 30 years ago. And we have examples of, let's say, good examples of this call phase out. So we now need to go to Western Balkans and Ukraine to find, of course, there are different options, different minds, different power plants. But we need to see from what happened in the past and how we need to see how we need to proceed now with these countries. Because I think to my understanding, and also what the understanding is from the European Commission, I think all of the team working in this call transition is that we need to go fast to renewable energy. Of course, I understand that we rely very much on call now, and this is not an easy exercise to all of us. But we need to go taking into consideration good examples from the past, from other countries as well. Thank you very much, Dr. Nikolas. Could you single out any benefits or advantage that the Western Balkan countries have in this process? The benefits of Western Balkan countries is that as far as I can understand from also from the rest of Europe is the sooner you go to call phase out, the sooner you get green electricity, the sooner you get a better environment, a better environment. We now go to electromobility, we now go to renewables, we already be there, but I think as soon as we go, it's better for our societies, it's better for the Western Balkans to move to more friendly environment society. Thank you very much. Once again, we are very happy to have had you here. And if you have any questions for Dr. Nikolas, you can send them to Q&A section and Dr. Nikolas will answer the question after the webinar and I suggest we move on. Our next guest presenter. Thank you. My video was off for a while, but it was recovered. Our next guest is Mr. Alexander Szpa. He is head of Just Transition Research Program. He has long standing experience over 15 years of working experience in Polish public administration and in coal sector. In particular, it is important to stress that he comes from Poland, which was heavily reliable on coal and it still relies on coal, but it is engaged now in intensive energy transition process. We will discuss the territorial transition and experience from Poland and I believe that we will be able to adapt and implement some lessons learned from Poland in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Mr. Szpa, the floor is yours. Mr. Alexander, we cannot hear you. We could hear something now. I suggest that we do a little exercise while we are waiting for Mr. Alexander to fix the technical problems. Do you agree, professor? I propose that Mr. Alexander restarts the computer or restarts the Zoom, downloads the most recent version and we will hear him after this exercise on Dementi matter. I hope you can all see my screen. So we are again at the Dementi application. I'm kindly asking you to go to thementi.com and tag in the code 1514496 and answer the question. Thank you. Excellent. We are getting more and more responses. For the time being, most of the participants think that the biggest challenge in energy transition are jobs, job availability, and then regional economy, also strengthening or increasing social inequity. Jobs are still leading. We already have 42 responses. I hope we'll get more because we would really like to hear what your thoughts, what are your major concerns regarding this whole process. 48 responses. Great. 49 responses. Jobs are still the leading challenge that's been recognized as such by our participants. And one other thing which I can't really see very well since I'm sharing screen. I hope Professor Hossika access to energy, availability of energy. After that we have increased social inequity and regional economy. So let's wait until we get to number 60 of responses and then we'll continue. That's Mr. Alexander managed to fix his sound problem by then. We did have a test at 12 and everything was working fine and now technology is failing us. But I hope that will be fixed easily. 52 responses. Okay. I think that's where we are going to stop. So the most concerning challenges regarding the energy transition, the first one is jobs, second, access to energy, increase the social inequity and rehabilitation of devastation regions and regional economy. So I will stop sharing screen now and we are going back to Mr. Alexander to see whether the microphone is working, like what of the sound is working. We can't hear you. No. Unfortunately, no. Nadira, I propose that we move on with the next presentation. And during that time we'll try to fix this. Well, that's also what I wanted to propose Mr. our zoom host will help Alexander, and we'll move on to the next presentation. That's the presentation by Dr. Rachel Perks. Dr. Rachel Perks is a senior mining expert in the World Bank. She has worked with the long experience in extractive industries before she joined the World Bank she worked and lived for 20 years and the Ford and Central African Horn and Central Africa she has worked and managing the transition from conflict to peace in countries where natural resources have played a role in conflict and she participated in a catalytic role in state building. Currently, Dr. Perks plays a leading role in the development of the World Bank's activities on just transition, including in both the heads of government context. Dr. Perks, the floor is yours. Great, thank you. Can I confirm that you can hear me? Okay. Yes, we can hear you. And see you. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you for the invitation. And it's also nice to see so many of colleagues and friends that I've come to know over the last few years of working in the just transition space. I really appreciated some of the initial comments, the Assistant Minister's brief overview of our work. With him also our European Commission colleague, he has been working hand in hand with him since 2017 on just transition and coal regions both in the European context and also now in the Balkans and Ukraine. It's nice to see Damir who have come to know through the secretariat group for Western Balkans and Ukraine, coal regions and transition initiative. Claudia, I appreciated your principles. I thought that was a very good theme setting for the event today. And I look forward to hearing Francisco's interventions that are easier to use work in the space in the Galina. So that's a very important first dialogue, I would say that is a crucial aspect of the work that we promote the idea of people being able to gather to discuss to be able to share their concerns but also their optimism about transition and so I really want to commend the Stockholm environmental Institute for putting this together with the partners in Bosnia and Herzegovina today. I want to start with a very important part of the quote, our new climate change action plan will be going to the board. Next week, you're very proud of it. It sets a very ambitious agenda for the World Bank when it comes to climate change for the next decade. And in it, we have been working very closely with a number of other departments in the World Bank to ensure that the question of coal transition placed front and center. And this is an excerpt of a quote from our president, who has taken the decision along with senior management of the board to place the issue of coal regions and transition at the heart of our climate change action plan. And we look forward to the public version that will be available by July 1. Next slide please. This is an important map that sort of shows that we often talk that the world is sort of in two phases at the moment. As you can see in the context of Asia, Southeast Asia, still part of the US, we continue actually to have a increased demand for coal production and coal consumption. And this is part of the world, the other part of the world, which primarily fits to a degree in North America, also in the European context. And now soon in the Western Balkans and in places like Ukraine, diminishing in the demand for coal production and coal fired energy. The purpose of this slide is to show that although there is an acceleration that is going on currently in the global scene, it is very much an even acceleration. And one that requires to be very mindful of the fact that countries all over the world are facing very different stages of their energy transition. Next slide please. In the second slide here, we are talking about the types of market and policy forces which are continuing really to erode the profitability of coal in every country. And I've heard a bit of this context setting from down here in the context of Bosnia to Govina. Now, what has become crucially evident is that in most places countries are really not prepared for the magnitude of this transition. And there are a lot of vested interests, which make the early planning of transition, both very crucial, but also very at the very same time very challenging. And there's evidently the question of individual workers who do not want to be left behind coal companies to clearly still have the concern for profits that you need. The political elite who are sometimes tied to interest in the coal sector. And then obviously the fiscal gaps that are going to rise as the industry winds down, which places credible strain on municipalities and regional government, particular to be able to fill those fiscal gaps, particularly for service delivery. Next slide please. So when we talk about a just transition, and I'm going to explain our own definition in the World Bank. We're talking about the situation in which we have a variation across the globe in the seed and scope of decarbonization, which is now become even more accelerated with new targets that have been set forth. And because we have this seed and scope that is very different across the world. So in the country where the World Bank engages, we take a very pragmatic approach that's tailored to the unique challenges, but also the opportunities that each coal region in the country is facing. So in the case of Bosnia-Herzegovina, when we were invited by the Ministry of Foreign Trade and External Relations to come and assist with some early planning. We spent a lot of time to understand what the key priority challenges were across the Federation, the Republic and the state level. And we've spent a lot of time dialog municipalities to arrive at a scope of work that we're now on faking with the Ministry that is very much tailored to the needs of where Bosnia-Herzegovina is. This is a quote that I'm sure we've all been ruminating over the last few days since the release of EIA's recent report. And it really just shows the dramatic nature of the current energy transition that we are under. And one that, as I think one of our opening speakers talked about, it really requires a common approach, both at a national level and at a global level. And we hope to show you some of what we are doing to be part of that global community. So as we know, the pressure to accelerate the transition is rapidly increasing. You know, the latest figures coming out of the Energy Transition Council, which is the body that has been set up by the Government of the UK in the lead up to COP26. Their predictions are that in order for us to meet the Paris Climate Agreement goals, coal figures have to accelerate by four times its current place. And you can see what that means in actual fact in terms of what the inputs of various sources of energy will have to be and the dramatic changes in coal phase out in particular by 2030 and then obviously by 2050. Next slide please. In these predictions that have been done by the IEA's latest report, we note that in order to achieve the net zero emission scenario which the bank supports, the OECD countries would need to phase out coal entirely by 2030 and other countries by 2040. And as we started to be in the presentations this afternoon, we are far from being at that being in a capacity to be able to reach those types of targets such a short amount of time. And the real question or the concern that we often raise within the World Bank is how do we keep the accelerated energy transition in line with a just condition, because we don't want to be a decoupling of these two processes in order to ensure that really no one is left behind. Next slide please. So when we think about job loss, and it was interesting to see, but not surprising that that was the top priority of those on the webinar today. We often think about jobs that are in the coal mines and in the thermal power plants, and more specifically historically we've thought about jobs that are unionized. So many direct workers who are aged in companies with benefit packages with retirement packages, etc. What we have come to learn is that there has been such a radical reform of the coal industry across the world over the last decade. And what we have found ourselves in a situation of wearing most countries, the coal industry job have actually been contracted out, meaning that we no longer have a large percentage of people who are in unionized job. What that means is that the types of packages or the types of social protection measures government used to consider as a means to help to bridge the gaps of job transition have to be different, because we have much larger percentage individuals who are actually not covered by the coal, you know, full benefited jobs. And if we look beyond obviously the coal mine itself, so this green sphere, we move into what we call the coal valued pain and the indirect sphere of jobs. And these are, these are jobs that are often hidden in the statistics. Because when we look at sort of impacts, we typically look at the amount of people who may be registered in mining pouring. But here we see, you know, construction workers, people who are providing technology services to mark people who may be providing other types of technical solutions to the mines and the thermal power plant. And so in the work that we do in countries we do a very detailed analysis of this entire coal value chain to understand the impacts. Then when we move it to the purple sphere, then we start to look at what are the real fiscal impacts in communities. So the idea of how a dishman diminishment of salaries and diminishment of taxation has an effect on all the business and suppliers who actually version whose communities, because of the existence of coal mines and the power power. So it's this type of very detailed thorough analysis that bank and pace, and which we are currently undertaking in the context of Bosnia and Herzegovina with much with the Republic, Serbian and with the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Next slide. I wanted to touch briefly upon this question of the just transition. And as I was alluding to before you know that the term just condition is very much rooted in the international trade union Congress is definition they were the first to put it forward and again it was very much focused on unionized formal labor. The given current state of the coal sector globally and the concerns we have a lot of jobs transition should encompass the World Bank has put forth its own definition we talk about a just transition for all. And the idea here is that no one is less left behind in the transition to clean energy. We not only talk about a job and about people but we also talk very much of the need for policies and plans have to be in place. The mobilization of investments, the catalyzed that land remediation and repurposing can have. And also the community support that's needed in this transition period. Next slide. We've actually been working on close sector transition for decades now our first project, we're in the 1980s 1990s across Poland, Russia and Ukraine. We've also been working in other countries. And more recently we've been involved in easy country and also now in Bosnia, Ukraine, Serbia. At this time we've been able to produce several documents and I can put them in the chat the links in the chat and later, but essentially we've taken all of our learning since the 1980s to come up new framework that we apply when we start to plan and prepare with countries on these questions of coal transition. And you'll see on the left hand side here some of the lessons that we've taken from our work in the 1980s and 1990s. So we've taken stock of what worked and didn't and now we started to apply these to our current engagements across the globe. So obviously the need to move beyond planning the national level and really bring communities and coal regions into that planning process and the way that is very inclusive. And that's what we've done since they called their engagement and consultations, prioritizing land values, and how we can be purposeful reminding us for economic development. Looking at questions of harmonized regional planning, and also ensuring that, you know, we recognize that there are a lot of the best at interest in the continuation of coal, and how we engage with those interests in a way that is mutually satisfactory. Next slide please. So, and we can move to the next slide. So what is the path forward to the bank. We've come up with an approach where we recognize is that in fact these transitions have three key phases. The first phase, what we call pre closure and this is really a phase that is focused on planning. And that is where most of the countries would be in the western Balkans in Ukraine and and even similarly in a lot of countries in the east. And this is where we're really focusing on understanding the problem and thinking about solutions, and really at this stage talking to everyone and anyone to be affected to understand what are the concerns. In the second phase of transition, this is really almost the most straightforward because it's about closure, but the closure of mines and power plants, doing these ways that respond to national legislation, but also best practice internationally. And then in the third phase, this is the most challenging, the longest, the most difficult and the one where we have to be realistic about change. This is the regional transition phase, which really focuses on now moving towards a new economy and bringing a radical alarm on that journey. We just finished a major analysis of the cold transition in the Appalachian region of the US still years on with significant national and state level investments. That transition continues to have to be well led, well followed. So I think this is one of the most important states that the commitment to transition is something that will not be over five years, but likely over multiple decades. Next slide please. So I want to be briefly about our framework, this is one of the remaining sites that I have. So you'll see on the left hand side these phases that I just talked about. So in the case of Bosnia and Herzegovina, we are currently in this pre closure planning phase, where as the minister said, we're hoping to arrive at the beginnings of a plan for transition in the fall of 2021. And we take a very systematic approach to planning where we have three key tillers, the first being institutional governance. And that goes to the point that the press it raised earlier about the need for a national team, a national committee, and we are in fact working with after at the moment to provide recommendations on what such a high level government body to look like what would be in terms of reference what would be its composition, because I fully agree that there's a need for a common approach. And also in these do a lot of stakeholder engagement and they said, and really ensuring that we have a clear understanding of which minds are closing when with thermal plants, the people to be affected, and how we can start to put all of this data together and comprehend plan. The second pillar is on people in communities. There's a lot of work to be done in all the phases. In the case of Bosnia Herzegovina. We're doing all of the labor profiling work where we're understanding all of the minds, all of the thermal plants. What are the existing labor that are direct, but also now we're going to move into a phase with Moftar where we will be looking at the indirect labor so those that are not formally boy bag a month in the thermal plants, but who work in the course sector. We'll be doing in depth pilot area analysis, starting fall of 2021. And then the third pillar is really on land and environmental remediation. This is the most important aspect continues to be overlooked. The opportunity that land provides to really be an economic regenerator. So for instance, in certain countries where we've been working, you know, there's the possibility to turn open pit mine into floating solar stations, or to create battery storage sites. It could also be to create business parts. We've been having some interesting discussions with the municipality in front of each being where they're interested in seeing how they can create business part from form of mind wise to attract investment. This is really the phase that's been most overlooked in a lot of the past year across Europe, we have brown fields that are really at the moment, and our intention is to help government municipalities, national authorities to find ways to address the social and the environmental liabilities of these lands in order to make them available new investment in order to create jobs. The next place. So in this last slide is just to demonstrate where we are active at the moment, and the types of work that we're undertaking. So where we are actively involved in assisting government planning for a closure, whether it's minds of the low power plants, we currently have a very large management in China, in South Africa, Morocco. Many parts of Europe, Poland, Bulgaria, Serbia, Ukraine, Krasnaya, Herzegovina. And then in, if we were to move into places where we're doing a lot of knowledge sharing and information sharing have certain parts of Europe, and, and also the Western Balkans as well. And then areas where we believe are priority, but where we haven't engaged much to date and intend to in the near future. One I would say that we don't have to talk about is Columbia in, in South Latin America. And the last of our knowledge partners, the US, Canada, the UK, France, Germany. And I would highlight that in the case of the US, we recently hosted along with the secretariat for the Western Balkans and Ukraine platform initiative. The first 20 between the municipalities run a VP and a number of stakeholders from Appalachian, and we will doing a follow up 20 in September of 2021. We will be extending to another three or four municipalities in Bosnia Herzegovina have who have requested to participate. We will be making that twinning available to other stakeholders, including anyone who is here today. Please do get in touch with either myself with the assistant minister socket, or with the secretariat of the Western Balkans and Ukraine platform initiative. If you wish to participate. So with that, I will end and welcome in question. Thank you. We have several questions for you in Q&A section. I will read to one is from Eco Forum from Zenitza. I will read it in the in English. I don't want to make any confusion. Nothing should be lost in translation. The number of generations will decrease as it was shown in the slide. Predictions are good for solar and wind, but hydro considered as the best alternative to pull in Bosnia and Herzegovina will remain less than 20%. I hope you managed to hear me. So if I understood correctly, the questions around the IEA graph and the predictions around hydrogen and sorry, hydro and in Bosnia Herzegovina. Yeah, we are working with Maftar on small hydro plants and certainly believe that it is one of many sources. I think the key is that energy diversification has to respond obviously to the constraints and the security of the country. We don't make any advocacy for what that mix will look like. We typically follow the plan, the policy and the objectives of the government and in this case it would be whatever the government is working on within the context of the national environmental and climate plans. Thank you, Mr. Perks. We have one more question from Mr. Rimey Karabegovic. A question from Ms. Karabegovic. For what kind of assistance can a region or a municipality request? Well, the multiple of requests that could be made typically because the world bank operates or dialogs principally with the national levels of government. In this case, it would be the state entity. The best way is for municipalities or for regions to organize their requests up to the state level, obviously through their federation entities and the republic entities. But any types of requests for transition are typically well received. What we like to encourage is this comprehensive planning process so that we're not receiving requests which are for a specific project, but more to demonstrate that the request is part of a cohesive transition plan. So typically when the types of assistance that we would give would be anything from clean energy transition, so assistance with renewable, to looking at the questions of alternative employment, SME development, land repercussions and remediation. It could be assistance with analysis and reforms on certain laws. So the bank really doesn't have many limitations on the type of sectors of assistance that we would consider. But the most important piece is that there is a piece of plan in place that demonstrates the thought that's going to other requests. Thank you, Mr. Perks. And let's see if Mr. Alexander resolved his technical problems. We do hope so. I also hope that Mr. Spor resolved his problems and that we will now can hear his experience from Poland. Great. I understand that you can hear me right now. Yes, we can hear you perfectly. Thank you very much. Yes, we can hear you very well. I'm really sorry about the technical problems so please excuse me. I'm terribly sorry about that. I hope with my presentation I will make the time spent on waiting count. Let me just, without further ado, start with my presentation. So I was asked today to talk about the Polish experiences with planning the transition about territorial just transition plans. And I'm going to do that. But before that, just for those who are not very familiar with Poland and the coal sector in Poland. Let me just start from the short overview of the coal regions in Poland. So please, let's go to the next slide. So we've got in Poland, six major regions where the coal is produced, we've got one minor so I won't, so I will ignore it for this presentation. So we've got three regions where we produce hard coal, and three others where we produce lignite. And probably the most well known abroad is the Silesia, where both the coal production and employment in coal sector are the highest. So this is more most coal intensive regions. And this six regions they differ very much for different levels. Firstly, some are remote areas, as for instance, Lower Silesia is the case and power plant in Turów, which is recently also famous for the border conflict reason. And the other the opposite would be Upper Silesia, where, which is densely populated industrialized region where many different sectors of the economy are functioning well. The economy of the region is also quite vibrant. So, although there is a lot of coal mines and the problems are there. And this is also the region which can relatively manage well this transition. And there are also, of course, different features also the time where the coal power plants or lignite power plants were installed were built. So in the Upper Silesia the tradition of coal mining is 200 years, whereas in lignite regions, for instance, this tradition reaches not further than the 50s. So the 1950s of course. So in that sense the cultural aspects are different also in the tradition of coal mining is different in each region. Now, given different differences between the regions, each of them is planning currently different time horizon for coal phase out. So, which span between 2025 or 2030 the latest for Konin, which is the place where where my foundation is the foundation was quite active and is quite active as this is the region which moves ahead the fastest among compared to others. And this is kind of a lesson probably to learn for other Polish regions, which are kind of more puzzled with with the whole process. And to my understanding they will look for this for this region to, you know, to take to draw the lessons from from there. You have other regions as mostly hard coal regions which are on phasing out coal which are postponing as much as possible the coal phase out in Poland. So for South Asia it's currently 2049. For other regions, it is not clear it can be. It can it could be the same date. But for instance, my post is probably considering to phase out coal much earlier. So the dates are still the dates are sometimes there, but none of them is really definite and sure. So, so, so the process is is offsetting the dates is quite open. And this process is probably and let me go to the next slide. This problem, this process of setting the dates for coal phase out is probably triggered the most by the European Commission, which came up with, of course, the European Green Deal. And this mechanism which was also mentioned earlier, this just transition mechanism, which offers to the regions in the EU that decides to phase out coal and financial but also technical support in in this process. So, the Commission, of course, wants to make sure that this this famous dog and of leaving no one behind materialize. And that is why it offers a certain support. Of course the commission goal is to make sure that no greenwashing know that the actual transition will take place. There won't be any greenwashing or projects which could prolong the existence of coal in the in the energy mix. Of course, you've got the two other important actors, the direct partner of the European Commission since the beginning meant to be meant to be the regions. And they roll, which is expected is to define the, and their challenges, their needs, and to come up with projects with objectives until 2030, which, which framed in a, in a territorial just transition plans would constitute a basis for transfer of financial and technical support. Of course, there is third part third part in this process. There are central governments, and this is also Polish Polish case, which may needs to make sure that the other structural, for instance, policies so the, so the cohesion funds or structural funds are aligned with the targets and policies within the just transition mechanism. And also their party is to make sure that the balance of balancing of support between different regions is this is taking place. And yeah, so these are the three actors which are, which are important in this process. So this is kind of, if I may use the theoretical term this is kind of procedural justice, how it's implemented. If sorry, sorry, is it so that this is distribution of justice so making sure the Commission making sure that the resources are distributed fairly and in partnership with regions and government. So that's for the and let me go to the next slide. Now, about the procedural justice. And let me focus here more on Polish case study. We have in Poland this traditional approach to social dialogue which since 19th century is based on a private and private sector on the one hand side, so the companies, and the trade unions on the other side, and the government which is kind of the third part of the whole process now with the progress of energy transition with the challenges of climate change. This traditional structure of the social dialogue is no longer fully adjusted to the problems at hand. In a sense that, well in Poland for instance, hardcore mining trade unions are the strongest among all the trade unions, and they have very strong direct impact on both the government and the companies of course. And the problem which we are facing now is that the, all the environmental concerns which are external to the problem for the energy mix are not fully represented in the dialogue between the three parts. So, as long as there is no green trade unions, no green businesses are developed enough or the process of formation of syndicates in that green new business is not mature. The climate or environmental concerns are not, in my opinion, they're not sufficiently represented. So, probably this is one of the challenges of the problem. I focus in this presentation given the short time. There's of course many others, but if you want to ask the questions, whether the whole process of planning the territory of just transition plans. Is it realistic or not? You need to probably know a few things about Poland, which may be interesting for other countries as well. Well, the first important thing is that Poland is the only EU member state which currently didn't declare officially achieving the target of climate neutrality, as this is the case for the other EU member states. Some of the EU member states indeed pledged to achieve the target earlier. I think that these are four countries now. And depending on this Polish decision, in terms of financial support, the Commission may withdraw the half of the resources which are attributed currently to Poland. So this decision, although not being made, I hope we still have time to make this decision to adopt the climate neutrality goal. This money would be available fully only if we declared this goal. Now, another important thing to know about Poland is that if you look at the, and I, in my previous jobs, I was looking quite intensively at the historical process of transition since the 1990s in Poland. If you look at the subsequent strategies related to energy mix and coal related policies, you see that there was always this hope and in the plans, one would forecast the demand for coal much higher than it was the case. So even now, in the current Polish energy policy, which is quite fresh document, this document had plans for 2040 energy mix, and even there you've got quite ambitious as for the coal structure of the energy sector targets. And what is obvious since last three months, I guess, when one observing the CO2 emissions permits, the prices of the CO2 emissions permits, that the fast rise of the of this prices makes very fast, especially late night sector and economically unviable. So the, not only the process itself risks to be, risks to let many people behind the economy of that, or the economics of that process is pretty obvious right now. And only this week, we've got another state on company which declared the, the bell hot of Lignite power plants or the biggest Lignite power plant in Europe to phase out the production of electricity until 2038, although previously it was hoping for the much later dates. And this is strictly under the influence of the of the current CO2 price. Now, so to conclude, I guess it's important to know that in current planning for transition in Poland, there is consensus and it always was. On one hand side you have many think tanks or even government organizations that are planning technical, technical switch of power of the energy mix, towards the low carbon technologies. And, and this is one challenging process. And but on the other hand side you have trade unions which we've got the same in Poland that the paper is patient so so the paper is not very shy, contrary to people so so we have this pressure from trade unions in Poland to make sure that the option of the call to exist much longer is possible as and is on the table, although, when you look backwards, this, this optimistic scenario for trade unions that the call will, will remain will never materialized so so the, the, the usually Polish strategies as the compromise between the two approaches. And also if you look at and I guess this may be process not only in Poland but other countries. And I think what your country as well is that the social awareness of climate change or environmental risks is rising, which, even if not makes no much difference now will make much more difference in short future. And, and this is the, this is the final message that I wanted to share with you. I guess what is important to know maybe from our last slide if you look at it. A lot of work made in in strut relied on the open data platform, which is a trend across different member states so basically what in strut did was gathered many data that was fragmented and, and put in different documents, gathered in one precise place one database. And on that we created a model which is energy model, which, and having this data and the model allows with full transparency monitor the process of, or the observation of the efficiency of energy sector. And so the results were recent results that we came up with were pretty clear that economically speaking, cold, especially late nights, but also hard cold probably in 2040s are no longer will no longer be economically justifiable part of the energy mix. And this is, and this is my probably final remark for now. Thank you very much and feel free to ask the questions. Thank you, Mr. sport for this detailed presentation of the Polish case and the process of energy transition. I believe that all of us who were hearing this and involved in the energy transition, could find, find in those elements. Our situation of course with the much lower numbers. Now I'm talking about the scope of production, the tons and we have a lot of questions for you. Some of these questions were answered already by Mr. sport, but one very specific question that concerns TPPs running on coal. The question is, when was the most recent or the last new power plant was built in Poland, and whether as it would follow from this discussion, would it be closed before its life expires. I'm not from my own from from my head I cannot say about the thermal power plants. I can however say that to my knowledge, recent blocks of energy power plants were built very recently. And if you have, if you want to look precisely this is the data energy data energy insert data base is the right place to do it because you can specifically look at each of the power plants in Poland, and have exact data so so I recommend to use that. But indeed, there is a, there is a high risk and have probability that the newest coal power plants, or legally powered plants that the blocks in the new power plants units will be faced out before they reach their economic. Because they are paid back. So, it may be the case that in already the investments put in the energy power plants are not reinforced. But one of the papers that I was recommending was on the coal coal power plant in Ostrowenka which was to be built. And thanks to the analysis of the instrument foundation. This construction was stopped. So it was quite impactful paper. And in a sense that precisely taking taking into account all the data that we could collect this power plant occurred to be unprofitable and the currently to my knowledge there is currently currently a legal process of them. I think management board in Poland for mismanagement of economic mismanagement of this investment. Thank you for this answer. We have some questions for you and we hope you will stay with us until the end. And in this time that we have set for questions and answers, you will be able to answer the rest of the question and we will continue with our agenda. The next topic is EBRD's initiative of just transition and EBRD's engagement in the Balkans as the European Bank for reconstruction and development. Our guest is Francesco Orbo. He is the regional leader for energy for the Western Balkans countries in the EBRD in the group for sustainable infrastructure. He has longer experience in financing sustainable energy projects, especially in the developing countries. So Mr. Orbo, the floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to this very important conference. So very, very briefly, you already introduced me. I've been with with a bank for more than 15 years and I am responsible for the Western Balkans in Croatia. And what is really taking, you know, all my passion in the in the past period is really our commitment for the carbonization and the just transition initiative is really one of the instrument that is a decor of our mission in the region. But I mean, keeping interactive, I will go through the presentation. If you're not familiar with the EBRD, we are a multilateral development bank that was established in 1991 for fostering the transition towards open market oriented economies and to promote private enterprise initiatives. We cover quite a heterogeneous spectrum of countries and they are very different from such economically and also in terms of energy structure. We can put on the first slide. Basically, the carbonization and just transition is, as mentioned, a very important element in the region. This is because the countries in the region are much more carbon intensive and call intensive than the European Union. 15 of our countries of operation have a higher carbon intensity than the world average and 10 are in the top 20. On the graph, Bosnia is one of the most carbon and energy intensive in the region. The electricity generated from the coal in Bosnia is the highest after Kosovo in the Western Balkan countries with 70.1% according to that on 2017. Next slide please. In total coal use, the EBRD region has around 25% of global coal reserves with the largest located in Kazakhstan, Poland, Russia and Ukraine. Around 240 coal-fired power plants produce a quarter of the region's electricity. More than 400 coal mines supply those plants, and while some mines are nearly depleted, they supply a combination of factors such as competitive alternative technology and the introduction of climate policy are putting finally pressure on the continued use of coal, particularly mining and electricity generation. Particularly the Western Balkans economies have small power sectors, but they are largely based on coal-fired generation, primarily supplied with domestically-mining night. The only exception in the region is Albania that is fully depending on hydro. The power plants are old and characterized by very low level of efficiency. When we look at Bosnia, the country currently has five operational coal-fired power plants, nine thermal coal mines, which basically represent the alpha of the Western Balkan region, and in total support approximately more than 20,000 jobs. Next slide please. The green economy transition, approached from 2021 to 2025, was part of the bank's overall strategy for the next five years, and will support the acceleration of the transition to a green, low-carbon and resilient economy. Aligning is activity with the principle of international climate agreements, including principally the Paris Agreement, enhancing policy engagement for the development of long-term low-carbon strategies and greening of financial system, and also scaling up investment in areas such as digital solution, just transitions, circular economy, natural capital, and green value chain financing. To deliver through the bank's private sector-oriented business model, this new approach would include climate action to reduce energy and carbon intensity, and to enhance resilience to climate risk, as well as environmental action to abate our air pollution, address water issues, and protect natural capital. EBRD is setting a new target to reach a green finance ratio of more than 50% by 2025, combining financing with the provision of policy expertise, as we have done mostly in the region, especially in supporting renewable energy through options. The EBRD launches its Just Transition Initiative in May last year, and aims to ensure the benefits of a green economy transition while protecting vulnerable countries, regions, and people for falling behind. We propose following to do in the context of Just Transition Initiative. One is to support the green growth, some of the carbon-intensive sector will decline. There are many green opportunities for those regions to be grabbed. And this is linked to the decommissioning and the proposing of the assets that are in decline. But it's also about the growth of the new green assets and new green opportunities investment across many sectors, not only renewables. It could be sustainable tourism, it could be energy efficiency, it could be circular economy recycling, water quality, and many other things. Second is about skills for future, promoting access to alternative livelihoods for those who livelihoods are affected by the transition process through risk healing and enhanced entrepreneurship, with the context of addressing underlying drivers of inequality. And finally, regional economic development, which is simply to help our region diversify away from the coal and carbon-intensive assets into other economy sector, might be important for them and which will depend from the region to region. It could be an SME credit line, women in business, some key infrastructure, digital transformation, attracting new business ideas that create alternative economic opportunities. Next slide, please. The partnership of international cooperation is key in delivering just transition. We keep a regular contact with European Commission under the just transition mechanisms to support countries of operation in EU, designing implemented territorial just transition plan, and working with other stakeholders, as well including the World Bank, the energy community, and others. In particular, in Western Balkans, in practice, together with the EU, World Bank, EIB, and others, we established the platform initiative for coal transition in Western Balkans and Ukraine, which aims to facilitate the development of strategy and projects to kickstart a timely transition in region that are currently largely coal dependent. This is critical issue for the Western Balkans country, where coal is still fundamental to the energy sector, and currently for about 70% of electricity produced in the region. The platform aims to facilitate the development of strategy and projects to kickstart a timely transition in regions that are largely coal dependent. It offers financing and policy support, but also an academy for policymakers and twinning of coal region to share knowledge. This transition from coal is part of a broader cross sector transition to near zero carbon emission for the Balkans. This will involve all the sector. It is clear we need to move faster and we have historically lack behind on this. The EBRD work closely with the MDBs as well to advance international support for a just transition ahead of COP26. We joined the MDB's Paris Alignment Working Group, focus on just transition, completed the first phase of joint work, and now common principle for MDB support for a just transition had been developed. This principle, we provide high level guidance to ensure that we will all act consistently, credibly and transparently, to contribute to the aims of a just transition while acknowledging tailored operation definition and the country priorities. In the last slides, please, let's go to the next one. We will have a kind of explanation of how in reality, the EBRD is already applying what will be the effectively planning of the just transition. In the last study for the North Macedonia, what the EBRD is working to carbonize across different sector and increase the base of the carbonization. This includes financing of renewable energy, clean transport, energy efficiency industry, low carbon buildings, and developing ocean for renewable energy, as well as support countries, clients, low carbon roadmaps. To give a recent example, as mentioned in North Macedonia. We had, and we are in the process of implementing a just transition plan through a just transition diagnostic, including a focus on the social implication and the transition such as skilling, upskilling and redeployment of opportunities. Besides establishing policy dialogue and depending to design just transition plan, we provide financing for green investment, which led to a reduction of existing environmental impact. The EBRD supported the state on utility ESM for implementing two solar power plants projects. One is under construction is 10 megawatt solar power plant on the coast coal mine of Oslo May, near the city of Kichero. The other one is the other project is under final negotiation is the extension of the same solar power plant for additional 10 megawatt and the construction of 20 megawatt solar power plant adjacent to the still operating term of our plant in Bitola in the southern part of the country. The engagement in cooperation with the government Macedonia aims to identify the social implication of the just transition and challenges for regional development and define a redeployment risk healing opportunity and develop labor market initiatives aiming to retain the core regional local workforces in cooperation with all involved stakeholders. Additionally, we also support the authorities to launch in the same I was low may 100 megawatt private public partnership divided into different lots of 50 megawatt each in which private investors were beating and competing in a joint venture with the state on utilities and they were offering offering as as parameters for the beat a portion of the revenues. This is another model for just transition directly involved in the private sector. So I think that we know this is a very briefly not to overlap with other colleagues that were already discussing before. The next slide you have my contact also the content of my colleague Russell Bishop that he's involved from the economics and the team. So I remain available for for your questions. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Korbo. Thank you, Mr. Korbo, but given the time I suggest that we hear the last presentation in today's program and then we will have a question and answer session and the data I hope you agree. Thank you, Professor. I do agree with you, but I believe that we should go back to the mentee application and see what our participants will think about the next question. I hope you can all see the question. I confirm that we can see the question. We have, we are receiving first answers. Benefits of the transition. Our participants most excited about our environmental reduction of air pollution renewable enhanced the protection of environment regional rejuvenation investments in green economic sectors. Again, enhanced environment creation of new jobs and better quality of the environment cleaner environment green jobs. Again, improved our quality green jobs just transition for employees in the mining and energy sector protection health protection for citizens and positive impact on the environment. Reduced the respiratory diseases conversion with the EU approximation to you. We have received 27 answers in total. A few minutes more decarbonization renewables improved environment green economy in progress development of economy and society and increased number of jobs. Strengthen economy. Very interesting answers from our participants. Thank you very much for taking the time to join us at this webinar and for participating in this survey. It's very important for us to know what you mean to know your thoughts. Compliance with the procedure of allocation of state aid environmental protection focusing on recalculation and remediation. Integral part of the transition and that's it I suggest we should close this application and then continue with the next presentation as I said at the beginning, we will close this webinar with an overview of energy transition and energy and opportunities in Boston, Herzegovina on this hard to keep his head of the sector for strategic development with the electric privada of Boston, Herzegovina in Sarajevo and he is an efficiency manager. He participated in modernization and upgrading of all the thermal power plants, and he was implementing multiple projects in electric privada including research and development horizon 20 project. He is managing a long term development in Boston in the electric privada he published over 100 bucks of ownership in various journals. Mr. Kazagic, the floor is yours. Thank you, Miss Berbic. I greet all the participants on my own behalf and on behalf of electric privada of Boston, Herzegovina I should say it is a great honor that I have this opportunity to share some thoughts at today's webinar and we are very pleased and honored that you have invited us to do so being one of the major electricity company and I believe we can contribute to this topic which is actually a hot topic today I believe you will find interesting some of the information I will share with you. I would also like to welcome the variety of participants today from different levels of governments. We have here representatives of the National Ministry which is the coordinator of energy strategy in Boston Herzegovina and I would like to welcome the point made by Mr. Opracic we will certainly support this. We had another initiative from Mofftor to appoint a representative to a national team, which would coordinate the transition activities in Boston Herzegovina and I do hope this expert body will become operational in full capacity and I also greet Miss Rachel Pugs from the World Bank, with whom we have been intensively working for the past several months regarding transition of coal regions, and we do hope that we will be able to implement all the activities that we started together. I may share my presentation with you now if you could please confirm when you see it on the screen. Not yet. No, it's coming. That's it, we can see it now. I adopted the topic to the proposed agenda. You can select slideshow please, as you usually do. Yes, that's it. This is an overview of energy transition with challenges and opportunities in Boston Herzegovina on the example of the electric they have. I listed here what is what are the perspectives of the energy sector not only in Boston Herzegovina Herzegovina but at the global level, and I am confident that other electricity company also comply with these principles we have the energy in progress and the replacement of fossil fuel energy with renewable energy but that's actually in line with the requirements of decarbonization and reduction of energy and this also implies the gradual phasing out of coal fuel the thermal power plants and their replacement with some other models such as the solar or wind power plants. On the other hand, enhances energy efficiency both at the level of the distribution and consumption. Another alternative is to introduce alternative fuels which would partly replace fossil fuels alternative fuels which are CO2 neutral and are environmental and climate friendly. I mean the biomass waste the biomass and fast growing energy crops and waste fuels. And of course smart distribution distribution networks also belong to concept which will in a near future change entirely change the electricity system not only in Boston Herzegovina and Herzegovina but globally of course storage of heat power should be tackled I should note that we frequently discuss transition of the electricity power sector while neglecting the heat sector but we need to tackle these two sectors in parallel because actually they equally contribute to increase the CO2 emissions and they have equal needs for implementation of new modules. And to this and I refer here to several modules that we are trying to develop and implement in a near future and these are solar thermal heat pumps and geothermal energy. Of course oxygen as a future technology but to do this we need in we need intensive research and development. As for specific challenges that EP BH faces in view of 2050 timeline and decarbonization targets. Some of the requirements and conditions that dictate this are the national plan of reduction of pollutants and we committed to certain ceilings of emissions from thermal power blocks and we also have to limit the ceilings for CO2. So we see and we need to implement the ETC scheme and I do hope that all the governmental entities governmental bodies will take this seriously in order to be able to. adopt this ETS directive requirements. We are of course aware and we are working on development of projects for on renewable renewable energy. Some two months ago we commissioned our first wind park and we are developing two new ones I will say something more about this at a later point. What is one of the pressing challenges is to phase out production in the current thermal power blocks and reducing the demand for coal and gradual closing of. mines and thermal blocks which are belong to our company we already developed some master plans towards the implementation of this objective. In this transition period we need to survive we need to maintain the system to make it sustainable so we made plans for upgrading of some thermal power blocks which would remain functional. During the transition period and we also plan to introduce CO2 neutral alternative fuels which would partially replace coal and the CO2 emission. One of the key questions how we can do this in a sustainable way is the management of strategy and planning of energy prices. We were quite rigid about this as a society and we failed to follow positive trends from our perspectives that were cherished in all developed countries, which made efforts to provide for sustainable development. Unfortunately, in our country these prices were fixed, and they were very too low, and we don't have maneuvering space to increase these prices, as Mr Daljevic suggested in his presentation. Of course all the levels of government should support this planning of electricity prices. We have continuously worked on planning our responsibilities and mandate until 2050, we are using our own software tools. We work with financial indicators and environmental indicators and we seek to make sure that everything we do is in line with the just transition we discussed today. And this is one of the crucial points which will be decisive for acceleration of energy transition in Bosnia and Herzegovina and this is the aspect of CO2 emission and its reduction. And you have already been informed of this and we informed the public also that ElectroPrived assigned the document early this month, a commitment actually to internally calculate charges for CO2 emissions. It is a transitional arrangement before we have this system in place at the national level. We have our milestone, we set them for 2030-2040-2050, as you can see by 2030 we plan to reduce CO2 emissions by 30%, which is in line with the documents which Bosnia and Herzegovina is developing such as energy climate plan, this is the strictest plan for ETS emitters in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Regardless of this strong platform that will be prescribed by NECP, we believe that the economy will compel us to maintain this goal by 30% and the reference year is 2017. We will achieve this by three pillars, increase renewable energy sources, increase TPP efficiency and coal phase out and introduction of alternative fuels as I already mentioned. This is the backbone of the main scenario of the production portfolio of ElectroPrived, we have our hydropower plants at Neretva, since recently with the park Podvelegya for a thermal power plant Tuzla, we plan to upgrade them, they will remain operational. We will introduce biomass and different types of alternative fuels to reduce CO2 emissions and of course we will intensively develop renewable energy sources in order to make up for the thermal power plant produced energy. This is the change of the structure of our production portfolio towards 2050, this means significantly reducing production from thermal power plants and increasing production and output of renewable resources. And we seek to remain below the sea links and we are also improving the network of our company in order to be more attractive for our buyers and clients. I will now briefly touch upon plant projects in the decade until 2030, I will not detail about each and every project but you will have this presentation available and you will be able to see the projects that we plant, what is the level of the investments regarding hydropower plants, windparks in the portfolio of and the solar plants, we focus on the area of mines which will be clothes where we need to repurpose the land and use it for another useful purpose, one of the criteria which meet this purpose are for solar plants and we already started installing these plants on the sites of some of the mines we closed and we already received positive feedback from some of the banks to which we applied and we do expect cooperation with the National Financial Institutions which should support the implementation of this project. Speaking about variable renewable energy sources, windparks and solar energy, electropriver that plans to construct 11 such facilities with the total capacity 448 megawatts and annual output up to 890 gigawatts and hopefully even 1000 and estimated capital costs are slightly over one billion. This, all these activities are the part of the transition of our company, we have conducted some activities in relation to mines and Mr Miljevic mentioned the restructuring of our mines as a positive news. We engaged in this process bravely with very specific goals in mind of course electropriver that cannot do this on their own. We need support, not only declarative but also financial and institutional support to bring this sector to the level of just transition which is promoted through all initiatives at the global level. In addition to construction of photovoltaic plants where we will diversify activities and re-skill some employees from mines. We also started the process of fast growing biomes, fast growing crops of biomes. We already planted some of these crops in two of the sites of former mines and we have full support from several levels from some international funds and institutions. This can be a very attractive business for employment of some former miners and we can use biomass as a transition fuel or a fuel which will partly replace coal in our thermal power plants. We have been also considering other options in addition to fast growing crops and photovoltaic plants with our industrial and partners and academia. We have been discussing this and monitoring the projects aimed at transitioning the mines and we are trying to use to maximize the use of knowledge they share with us but we also expect some more specific support. I should also stress a very good cooperation with the World Bank. We opened several chapters, biomass photovoltaic plants, waste fuel and detailed planning and repurposing of mine lands. All these chapters are being discussed between our team and the team of the World Bank and we do hope that our cooperation will have very specific results. In conclusion, until the end of 2023 we will decommission another three thermal power plant blocks in Tuzla and Kakan and we will gradually phase out and reduce production in thermal power blocks which remain operational. We plan to upgrade them. We are working on upgrading of the block in Tuzla. They brought it to 13% of ETA efficiency and now we are working to transform the thermal power block into cogeneration. We plan to do so on the block 7 in thermal power plant in Kakan and another two blocks which will remain operational. We also plan to introduce biomass fuel and waste fuel. We are also considering the conversion of one of the blocks in Kakan and Tuzla to use exclusively biomass and waste fuel. That's the next phase. We are also considering an option of a gas block, gas fuel block block which would balance the network of electroprivita. I said already we will install the up to 500 megawatts of rest by 2030 in parks and photovoltaic plants. The plan until 2025 is 850 megawatts. We started the process of reorganization, restructuring and phasing out of some facilities in mines and diversification of business activities in mines and we are working on repurposing in mines and as I reiterated in my presentation and I believe Mr. Midewicz also mentioned this, electroprivita will not be able to do this on their own. We need financial and technical support from international institutions. We believe that this is a very courageous plan. It is sustainable. It is very specific and with a certain support we can implement it. Thank you Dr. Kazagic. Indeed, we had a dilemma if we should stop you, but this was very specific detail and I believe that all the participants were eager to hear what you said. Although we actually are out of time, I believe that from the technical point of view there is no problem that we remain together for another 10 minutes and to answer some of the questions. But for the questions which we do not answer today at this webinar, we will try to address them or to send them to the person from whom they are asked and you will receive written answers through email. As for the discussion, I should note, all the questions we have 11 answers that are not answered. All of them are very interesting, but if you allow me, I would like to start with questions for Mr. Kazagic. He is still with us and it's more most convenient for him. The question is where can we find more information about fast growing crops breeding on mine sites and how will the meeting of obligations from NERP affect the consumers as Mr. Midewicz said that the energy electricity in BIH is the most expensive. Just briefly, please. Thank you, Mr. Professor Rudin. Regarding the first question, we have an endorsed study endorsed by our management about fast growing crops and our department for development is in charge of this. They are coordinating with the mines and production line of electric river. I believe that some documents that we prepared can be available, made available. I believe that we recently published information about these plantations in Krika and Bresa on our website, but if it's not available on the internet, I will see with our responsible department and ask them to put this on the website so as to make it available to their public. And the second question is also very interesting whether the meeting of obligations from NERP will affect and how it will affect end users. From this position and the role I have in our company, whatever I say can be perceived as my own opinion, but we are all aware that we have lowest prices for households in Bosnia and Herzegovina. And it is impossible to implement energy transition, introduce and implement innovative technologies, improve environment and maintain the level of prices. And that's, I can say, of course everything will be finally decided by at the level of policy, and we do need policy on prices. I believe that should not always initiate things and be blamed for every increase of prices. We need understanding and we need that people accept the real situation. Mr. Damir Medievich asked for the floor at one point. He probably wanted to add something to this answer. Mr. Medievich, the floor is yours, but please try to be brief. I will be very brief. What the gentleman from Electro Priveda Birgit said is absolutely true. Everyone, this regards is the point that we need to distinguish between those who can afford economic price of electricity and those who cannot. And we need to find a modality for those who are not able to pay this price to help them. The gentleman is quite right. We need to find a solution. We cannot keep people happy by ruining our producers of electricity. Of course, thank you. Thank you for this additional explanation. And I would like to ask the question for Mr. Nikolaos to this end. I would kindly ask you to translate. The question is in our language. And I do hope that Mr. Nikolaos is still with us. Professor, Mr. Nikolaos had to leave, but we can read the question. And if anyone of the panelists can say something that's fine, if not, we will certainly forward the question to Mr. Nikolaos. I will read the question, but if any panelist can answer the question, that's fine. The question, who approach, who ensures the approach to financing of just addition programs and what are the requirements. It is not fair that electric companies have opportunity to obtain the funds from international funds. They can benefit and even use money as compared to vulnerable population, especially for rehabilitation of destroyed areas restructuring severance payment and others, because that's their obligation but they want to avoid this obligation by doing so. Any other panelists answered this question, representative of the World Bank perhaps? Yes, what I mentioned earlier, usually when we give loans, we talk to state governments. When it comes to the transition in different regions, of course, there is a need for programs and that's access from bottom to bottom. In the context of Bosnia and Herzegovina, we work with different governments and we try to help them in prioritization. So, it is absolutely correct that everything that happens in Bosnia and Herzegovina will not be intended only for the private sector, but for different actors and affected parties throughout the process. Thank you for the answer. We will, in every case, answer the question on the way to Mr. Nikolaos. Thank you for your answer. We will forward. We have a request from Mr. Zvezdan. He is leaving, has a meeting at 1600 hours and he would like to know the answer to his question. This is the electroprivet that Bosnia and Herzegovina have an alternative plan if the block 7 of TPP Tuzla fails, or how will you make up for this failure? Of course, we must have an alternative plan. It is our task and we have been intensively thinking about this and we are preparing this alternative solution. We don't want to disclose this plan before the situation with block 7 is resolved. I believe the reasons are clear, but when the time comes, this plan will be disclosed and we will implement it. Thank you for your question. Thank you once again. Thank you, Dr. Kazagic for your answer and regarding other questions, we have several questions regarding gender equality. And as these questions were asked from Claudius Trambo, who is a member of the team for the development of the environmental strategy, we will forward these questions to her and you will receive written answers. Regarding the question about the development strategy 2021-2028 of the Federation, as we said at the beginning, I am in charge of the topic energy climate change and air quality. I can confirm on behalf of our group that we do use this strategy and the Federal Institute for the coordination of development requested us to use this strategy. In our working groups, we discuss the objectives and the contents of the Federal strategy and if we have certain arguments that we can improve some of these objectives, we do so. As we already used our time, there are some other questions, one question for the representative of EBRD also, but given that the time elapsed for this webinar, we will forward this question to Mr. Karba and you will have a written answer. We worked 20 minutes more than we planned, but I do hope that it was interesting to hear about the current situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina in the coal sector and sectors that rely on the coal sector. And then we've also had a possibility to hear what are our opportunities and what are the lessons learned from other regions, primarily from EU regions and what are the mechanisms available to assist Bosnia and Herzegovina in this process. May I ask Dr. Softich? At the beginning, we heard his introductory or key notes and we heard what the Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Relations is doing in this regard and I would kindly ask Mr. Karba to briefly comment what we've heard from the presentations and discussion and the questions asked, just a brief reflection about take away from this webinar. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you indeed to the organizer for the excellent webinar. We had excellent presentations and the Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Relations will, what you've heard from Ms. Parks, what our ministry will do in with regard to the transition. We need to develop the roadmap and after that we need to improve our legal framework in order to do what is envisaged in the roadmap. This roadmap will facilitate the transition in coal regions. As for future activities, we do need support given the fact that the World Bank which is together with us developing this roadmap and coordination with this region. I would like to use this opportunity to invite SIDA and the Stockholm Environment Institute, the donors, to get involved and to schedule a meeting with us and Ms. Rachel from the World Bank to see how we can cover the gaps we identified. We should involve them in these activities too and at the end of this year we should be able to count on the assistance of this institute given their experience in this field in the EU. I believe this would be very good. I see that Rachel is nodding and supporting this initiative. So in addition to this idea to support us, we need consensus of all these stakeholders, all decision makers in Bosnia and Herzegovina. And we have a very outdated sector, old fashioned thermal power plants and it is very important that we have full commitment of all the stakeholders in order to attain the desired result. And that is the decarbonization of the energy sector. Of course also meeting the requirements of just transition. We should not allow this transition will certainly be painful but we should not allow it to affect so severely our people and our companies and to inflict huge damages on them for many decades. That would be all from my side. Once again, thank you very much on behalf of the Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Relations. If you have any further questions you can contact us. We can have further meetings in order to clarify certain points or uncertainties. Thank you very much, Professors Husica and all other participants. Thank you, Dr. Softich. Thank you all and may I ask my colleague Nadira to give us a conclusion and to close the meeting. First of all, may I thank all our panelists for taking the time to share such useful and good information with all of us. We learned a lot today and the exchange information and I thank the attendees and especially those who stayed with us until the end. I believe that we can make several crucial conclusions. We've heard energy transition and phasing out of coal is here. It can come here in five or ten years but it is inevitable. The demand for coal will start decreasing. We've heard that the economic and other triggers to phase out the coal are here and further use of coal will only deteriorate our air quality and environment. But at the same time, we will have more and more alternative available and as Mr. Kazukic made a good point that we need to engage into research and development. It is also inevitable that we need to start to plan how to mitigate the consequences and implications for coal communities and regions and those communities which depend on coal. We already mentioned the term energy poverty and that's something that is tied with the region and Bosnia and Herzegovina and finally the idea of just transition, which was discussed by our colleague Claud means that the planning process must be in line with just just transition with just distribution of both objectives and benefits. We've heard some experience from other countries and lessons learned and we should take them and acknowledge them in order to have better and more just planning in our country. And I should say we have benefits. We have advantage. We will be transitioning at a later point, but then we have an opportunity to learn from those who have already conducted this transition. And of course through the application mentee we all concluded that we expect multiple benefits from this process, improved health, improved status of biodiversity, better water, reduce the G. And these are key messages we would like you to take from this webinar. Thank you once again for the time you have taken and for the questions you asked we will make sure to that you receive answers to your addresses and we will probably put them on our website. Thank you very much.