 Boom, what up fam? Anthony dream Johnson here president of the man is fair president of the fucking man is fair excuse me Proud founder of 21 studios 21 convention 22 convention 21 University co-founder and CEO of the red man group Today an episode 119 of the red man group. We're going to talk about the red pill in religion mostly Christianity, but also some other religious you know faiths as well and Joining me on today's show. I got two very special guests including the one and only and returning to the show many times Mr. George Bruno the salt in a silver youtuber extraordinaire over 150,000 followers on YouTube and A new panelist to the show who will be joining us as well at 21 summit and the 21 convention patriarch edition As well as the 22 convention to make women great again And his name is pastor or Michael Foster and he's a Christian pastor So that further ado, please welcome to the show today. Mr. George Bruno and Pastor Michael Foster. How you doing boys glad to be here? Yeah, that's coming on man. Yeah, I Have a feeling is a me really fun show very excited. I know the red pill in religion are too Obviously controversial topics, but bringing them together is a lot of fun And you don't see that too much in the man is here somewhat Yeah, the couple blogs that focus on it like doll rock and you have I know there's like a red pill Christian Subreddit for example on reddit, but mostly these are, you know, not the main focal point. So it's gonna be interesting to talk about it So before we get further into the show Michael, you're new to the red man group a lot of our fans And I'm familiar with you yet. Can you tell us about your mission and your history? But for example your patriarch is seven which is amazing You know you're making Tanner Guzzi jealous as well as myself So it's also about your history and how you found the man is fair and you know What the guys are gonna are gonna get food today like where do you where do you come from? Sure Well, I've been married to my wife Emily for just shy of 18 years like you said We have seven kids four boys three girls 14 all the way down to four months. So it's always busy around our house I've been a pastor on and off for 20 years planted churches I've been a youth pastor done I did a skateboard ministry back way way back in the day Then I was an associate pastor in a Presbyterian church The conservative side and now I'm planting another church right here in Cincinnati, Ohio right outside of Cincinnati, Ohio I got into so I've been into sexuality a long time. Yeah, I remember Where it really clicked for me. I was in a sociology class in my freshman year at North of Kentucky University and They were showing this tribe They showed this big greased up black bodybuilder to these tribal people out in Africa And they said man, that is a huge woman. It's just a the concept the way people perceive things I was immediately interested and if you read the early church fathers like the Alexandrian fathers the first couple centuries of Christianity Issues of the body and the purpose of the body and the importance of sexuality all that stuff comes up And I studied ancient history and in my undergrad So I've been into that topic for a long time But in terms of the manosphere it really came home to me probably about three or four years ago about four years ago I Would give advice to young men on how to navigate relationships with women and well, you know The red pill would call the sexual marketplace And it just it was didn't work like it. I clearly did not understand The world they're living in because me and my wife we started dating in 1999 right before the internet exploded and the internet is a huge Fault line on the way things have changed this while there's kind of a generational gap my boomers Most boomers with the exception of the wonderful George Bruno most boomers don't get this because it's not their experience They're from a different world and even guys like me that are Kind of late gen X we you know, I'm born in 1980. I knew analog and digital some of it didn't make sense to me I didn't understand how bad things have changed But I do remember a moment where I would see these girls who were very average and that's me being very kind Breaking up with these guys There were awesome guys these guys like I can think of one girl She looked just like her brother Which was on a good thing and she had this guy who was in the Navy could play the guitar He was a doctor. He was good looking He was just a genuine guy and she she thought she was too good for him. I was like What in the world this guy is so you better snatch this up and lock it down forever But then I started seeing that over and over and over again And uh, I was getting frustrated like what's wrong with these women. Why can't these guys I care about find a good woman? So I um I saw you must have missed the memo man. It's all it's all men's fault men are just you know Women are perfect and men are just the fault of all these things, you know You need some femsplaining is what you need. That's right My wife would tell you why we are going to marriage counseling Um, I would cuss the whole way there and cuss the whole way back because When when we would go to marriage counseling The pastor was a nice guy, but he would talk about How all the guys are like Homer Simpson more or less and I'm like I'm not like that I'm very emotionally available. I do get things done. Um, what I this doesn't relate to me and and I I was just I thought like no my wife. She's had she's the one with the temper in our relationship Not me, you know And but they they didn't have that concept because it was that basic idea that women are little angels And men are the blame for everything and so I that idea was in the back of my head But then I saw all these guys getting into order Peterson. So I listened to his lectures Went down the rabbit hole. Um red You know the way of the what is it? What's that one book the way is the peer man? Yeah, the way it's the peer a man. I read uh, the rational male series. I read, um No more mr. Nice guy by Glover I start reading all that stuff watching all the videos because you know guys don't have fathers So they don't know how to change their oil sometimes So where do you go to find out how to change your oil you go to the internet you go to youtube Well, you don't know how to be a man if you don't know how to get a woman Where do you go to you go to youtube? So at the time I was part-time in the ministry and And I had my own my own Company so on company hours. I listened to hundreds and hundreds. I actually listened to a lot of the red man Group I listened to a lot of the 21 lectures and kind of got steeped in why guys were Going here because they wouldn't find the practical thing. So that's I'm coming from it from a Not because I I haven't had a divorce. My marriage is fine. I've god's been really good to me I'm coming at it because I I love my brothers Right, um, and some of them don't have fathers and I didn't have the greatest dad, but now I'm I'm 40 and going gray Well, I don't get I don't get the luxury of looking for mentors. I have to step up and be one So I want to be able to give these guys Counseling advice that is biblical. It's true, but it's also for the world we live in at this moment So that's where I'm coming from Sounds awesome, man, and I hear you have a kind of a tangent that related somewhat to what you just talking about here I heard you have a really high notch count. You're talking to me about that My really high notch count Well, you you don't It's not that easy to get pregnant. So you don't get seven kids um On seven drive elbow grease. You got to put in the effort. Yeah, I put in the work. Yeah, man Look sex is a gift from god and men Men are women should want the best man they should get that can take an evil direction when hypergamy goes off The rails and and men should want to have a high notch count, but that too Um can go off the rails too and so yeah a man and a woman They should be really into each other all the time I agree with that too, man A lot of guys say um, you made me think of a question too. We can talk about both of you But uh, you know a lot of guys in the monastery, they don't want to talk about too high of a notch count on themselves being a problem And I think it can be uh, maybe not always, but I think it can be eventually I think for women It's way faster and way quicker, but for men it can be a problem too and no one wants to talk about that You know, it's really Everyone just wants to dismiss it is not it's not true. It doesn't matter blah blah blah, but I think it does I've had girls even say to me, you know, they they hear about You know my life meeting and sleeping with women and one of them was like, there must be really traumatic And it was it was a savage. I was like, dang I was like, you know You know, there's there's some truth to that Now, I don't know if she's speaking from her own experience probably maybe maybe not but certainly it was directed at me and I was like, yeah, there's There's something there Um, but I want to pause here too. So george, you know, we found megel talking for a little while here George, you've been in the monastery a couple years now You were introduced through it to it through I think richard cooper and myself and 21 convention back in like 2016 2017 So, you know as a christian you're really into this, you know, what is your experience been observing the man's sphere? Particularly the red pill Wing of the man's sphere They really wants to focus on the truth about men and women a lot like michael's talking about here that men's how they are not equipped To see what's going on today and to to navigate the sexual marketplace They get bulldozed, you know the routinely where there's divorce court or toxic relationships or anything in between So what's been your observation of the man's fair these years as a christian? Observation is this that men Look to the most radical extremes for everything whether it be All women suck all women are like that or Use all the women, you know, like the guys that brag about a high notch count On one side of their mouth and then on the other side of their mouth. They're saying all women are sluts and there's no pure women out there and i'm thinking, hmm They fail to make the connection Maybe you had something to do with that with your notch count that all women are easy. So There's this strange disconnect. Okay. I've slept with 300 women, but there's no good women out there You mean like confirmation bias, right almost with this? In other words, if I can do it, you can do it. Yes, absolutely. So that that's exactly Uh what I observed right away without judgment the other thing is this is that There is a A concept in scholarship, you know called going deep into a topic when you're studying something and You can go deep and you can go wide. My favorite scholars are those that go deep and wide The manna sphere is known for going very wide And being like a You know, when I look at a a puddle a giant puddle it's only an inch deep But it could be as big as a parking lot, you know, like a parking lot can be covered with water With only that much water. It's not a lake It's only an inch deep whereas a lake Or a pond can be as big as a parking lot, but be 30 feet deep I think I think what we need to do is men is go deep and wide Rather than Rather than just Creating experiences for ourselves and living vicariously off of other people's experiences, which is a Huge manna sphere pastime. Yep. Why not why not go deep? I mean, we love hearing stories of conquests and victories when michael foster first said to me that he has a high notch count With his wife That little hook was just that that now and instantly Like I went from laughter to a sigh because I thought ah I wanted that I wanted that so I look at what michael is doing as What I wanted to do but was unable to do for one reason or another And I just think about the head start that he has on his life And I'm just thinking my lord when this man is my age just The wisdom that's going to be flowing out of him and the people are going to be seeking him out. I mean, it's just Beginning it's michael. It's as if you just graduated from college And yet this whole career in front of you. You've got this thing right now. That's just it's The world is your oyster man Because people are so thirsty and so hungry talk about like thirsty men Men are so thirsty for knowledge hence jordan peterson writing a book saying Make your bed clean your room. It's like that's not very profound But it was two millions and millions of men So the bar is not real high right now. So the entry point Is somewhat low but for someone who has a good message That is deep and wide You're going to be way more than a one-trick pony. You're going to be way more popular than a one book author Those are my thoughts. Yeah, that's very kind Yeah Now michael going back a few minutes here. You talked about A programming kind of running off the rails. I think you put it or something similar to that A woman, you know, I think you're actually mentioning the way I interpreted what you're talking about is the attitude woman Widely today are having and it could be very unhealthy and it makes and when you observe it It's like the fuck or excuse me. What is going on here? I cuss a lot. I'll try to moderate that this episode But my question is though when women do this When women do this, um, how does this relate to the seven deadly sins? Are those mechanisms? Uh, so to speak i'm i'm not a christian myself But to me it looks like greed and the envy and these things Is that a part of how how programming can run off the rails? I'm gonna just get Is that uh, do you have some comments on that? Sure. So the way I look at, um, hypergamy and and even the male sex drive, which is way more intense than women Um, at least it's stable in its intensity Is that the the initial command in genesis that god gives the mankind is to be fruitful multiply and subdue the earth Right, so we're supposed to rule over everything take that's why when men see a mountain They want to climb it or they want to shape it into something right? We we look little boys dig in the dirt and that's because from an early age little boys want to To shape the earth little boys want to have conquest. That's why every I remember a story of a mom that took away all the guns from their kids Because you know guns are bad and the little boy ate his peanut butter sandwich into the shape of a gun It was shooting it right This is how men are wired. We're wired for conquest rule to build right and and so A woman wants a man That can conquer that can build that can get it done That's like built into them by god And so that's more or less what a hypergamy is looking for a man of the highest status you can get now Where it goes off the rails is where? Women monkey branch from guy to guy to guy to guy in this never-ending quest For the best guy they can get and they're never satisfied not that not being satisfied Can come from one thinking that a man exists to satisfy them men and women don't exist to satisfy each other A woman would my wife can never satisfy me perfectly. That's not what she's made to do and I and me I can't satisfy her. I'm not a romantic. I don't believe in soulmates. I don't think uh, I'm incomplete and my wife completes me I don't buy that I as a man. I'm I'm I'm fine as a man and her as a woman She's fine as a woman But if we're going to build a household, right? Which in scripture isn't just a home for netflix and chill, but it's your influence your property You know, you you go look at abraham's household Uh, he his his nephew gets kidnapped But and he goes to war with four kings and that because that's his household was 300 some servants and all this stuff Right a household there wasn't this like myopic Emaciated little thing we deal with it is this incredible place of influence And the people that I've had in my home the influence I've had on people is intense and my wife is part of it by By us practicing hospitality and her being sweet and listening to them and bringing her a feminine energy to that So we if we want to build that household. I need a woman. I I'm not asexual I can't cut pieces of me off to make people right me and my wife have to come together as one and and have babies But more than that my sons need a mother my my daughters need a mother They need a father. This is how we build our household together So the problem with hypergamy and the problem with the male sex drive is it's it's removed from a Tell us right an ultimate purpose something bigger than itself and relationships that are always facing inward are doomed This is why we see so many people get divorced after the kids leave the house, right? Because they usually have a kid that's about a junior seeing your the last of the of the kids that are junior senior mom and dad Get a divorce and that's because the biggest purpose that that marriage had was those kids Um, and it wasn't any bigger than that and that was enough to sustain it for a time But if you think your wife is going to always sustain you and vice versa It's going to be really It's it's not going to be happen. And so this is probably hypergamy is that she Is just looking for pleasure and satisfaction just like the guys that have these high notch counts Right those guys with a high notch count. They have nothing that I want I don't need anything they have. I mean their friendship. I'm sure I could learn wisdom here and there Um, but I I go home to a woman that I've built a lot with Right and she and I have aged together. It's like you see those trees where they grow around like a power line Right, that's me and her we're we're wrapped together where I began and she ends. I who knows anymore And uh, and we've got these children and we're planting this church and we're building this life And we want our great-grandchildren to have a heritage from us that Hypergamy goes off the rails when it loses its purpose My wife I look at her I always tell her that she doesn't like this George thought this was funny But I always tell my wife that she's my grape and I'm going to get all the juice out of her until she's a prune, right? Everything she has I'm going to get out of her and everything I have I'm going to give to her and we're going to build this thing together And so I think hypergamy and dude sleeping around ultimately It leads to a very sad life. I do think Multiple partners have a different psychological effect on women that it does men doesn't change its sinfulness But in terms of its consequences don't play out identically Yeah, yeah, I I agree with you 100 on that and it's something I think a lot of christians even want to wouldn't want to say But I think that's true in terms of biology in terms of nature I like you believe that god, you know created nature and then you know, we we came out this way and stuff But I agree. Yeah, it really it hurts someone It reminds me of the way I use it a lot actually the way I think of it is and in terms of adam and eve Like we made it for the the you know the screenshot of the thumbnail for this entire episode That's like woman today in terms of hypergamy and and you know promiscuous behavior It's like they're not just biting an apple. They're biting like a whole the whole tree They're like, let me take all the apples and bite all the apples And it's just like more toxic and more toxic and more toxic And I know dowrock for example that christian manister blogger He even said that a lot of what we call dating today serial monogamy, you know relationship after relationship after relationship after relationship Even that's just a different form of promiscuous behavior That they're kind of dressing up and disguising as Not promiscuous, but really Especially in terms of christianity. This is all the same thing, you know, it's I guess a little bit different, you know 20 guys versus 80 or 15 versus 40, but it's like Right that in terms before the eyes of god, that would be the basically the same thing, right? I mean, ultimately I'm sure there's a point where There's so little left of you That the difference between 20 and 25 is You know minute and uh, yeah, I think dow rocks basically, right? I think what women and men need to realize is that there's a portion of your life where you have so women are known by their beauty Men are known by their strength like if you're just going to be real simplistic. You're going to say something tweetable So your external beauty as a woman will fade at a time scripture says that over and over again But if you've built this life together with someone At the end of your life, you'll have this deep spiritual beauty this character and you see it Like I see it in women who maybe aren't naturally that attractive But as they grow in spiritual beauty, there is a real difference in them There's something very attractive about that just like a guy You think of a guy that's like fat not in shape when he but when he has confidence in swagger It can offset a lot of that and so just like there's so you're going to get weak as a man at some point I know all these guys and look i'm 60 years old and here's my abs and all that that's fine But that's not everybody now. Everyone has those genes and some of y'all are spending a lot of time To do that and if you had seven kids and 20 grandkids, maybe it wouldn't be as much I don't know but my point is your strength is going to diminish But the strengths of your character Strengths of your accomplishments that might be intense. So when me and emily are old and we're both prunes She'll remain have a spiritual beauty after her physical beauty fades to some degree and I'll have a spiritual strength But these women they're they're right now using their beauty their external beauty And to get but it's not going to be there forever And so at some point it's gone and then they have no character. They're not like they're like gambling addicts They're just gambling man just throwing chips down the left and right throwing it away and they're not getting there You could get awesome roi You could get a good return on investment if you find a good Hard work and dude that appreciates you and then has some vision and drive in the life Yeah, maybe he's not the best dude you think you could get but then you'll wake up over time And we watch people who looked like a big deal for a moment And then they're gone. I mean how many of these these celebrities come and go they're just constant And so you have to have that vision but Yeah, women I think they've really been ingrained against that kind of Mission like you just talked about here, you know finding a guy, you know hard work and all that stuff They really want to you know Feminism is basically told them they can have their cake and eat it too And it's convinced them of this that are really uh big scale and a very intense level They really believe this and then of course that doesn't work out that way And they end up they end up freaking out when they realize they can't have at all And then they hit the 30 wall and they start scrambling and 35 They really start freaking out doing crazy put your crazy crap And yeah, they thought they could just do whatever and you know live this life And it's like no that's sex in the city life is a life of Shit to put it to put it nicely The hardest people to deal with in the ministry as a pastor are old people with no family. I remember hearing He who shall not be named Talk about how there is uh That the old lonely man is like a myth or it's not true What the hell is he talking about? I've been in the ministry. I know lots of old lonely men I what sort of crack does someone have to smoke to think that Like yeah, I know a lot of old lonely men and they're not nearly as bad as old lonely women though and with um So as a pastor you you you spend time with these older women Their kids have moved away. Maybe they didn't have very many kids or whatever And you spend a couple hours with them on a friday and they're still not satisfied Right. It's like your water and they're the Sahara you can never satisfy them And it's because they have this energy and desire that should be spent on the grandkids and all that But they don't they're not around right so I don't know what these churches think they're gonna do When all these 30 year olds and 35 year olds get up in the 50s and 60s because I'll tell you as a pastor You will not be able to manage a church like that and women that are old and have nothing to do All they do is gossip and cause hell in a church paul talks about that in first first timothy 5 He's straight up says in first timothy 5 you guys can go read it right now he says look if uh The younger widows I want them to marry because if they don't get married They'll they'll uh become busy bodies going from house to house Right and that's exactly what happens all these churches that claim that they love single women And they they feed their the their delusion of being Having a career and getting the alpha male and having you know the two perfect kids when they're 40 or whatever Those pastors are going to be held accountable for god for the hell that they they cause in this earth when they've got churches Full of old women that are miserable and that's what I had a meeting with the pastor and told that to his face I said well, we'll find out who loves singles more. You or me in about 20 years Yep, quick quick commercial break here. Thanks for the super chat from north south five dollars Thanks for looking up at father's father's guys. Thank you, sir We'll get into fatherhood actually a little bit later in the show You know, let's bring that up later But speaking of the church, this is a big topic and I wanted to get into an article that george You know pointed out to me and I know michael that you're familiar with the rough draft of this too before you're even familiar with the author I think you know him So let's talk about let's talk about the church and feminism specifically You call blue pill lies or whatever about using feminism beating up in feminism. It's my favorite punching bag pinata But talk to me about the the church today the christian church and feminism And I know that you're not like, you know, there's many denominations of christianity, but from my perspective as a young american It seems like almost every church and every denomination christianity has basically Wimped out cucked out whatever you want to call it not not every church, but most of them It seems I've really bent the need of feminism and you know the the female imperative and all this crap It's like women cannot be held it like when is when is the last time women were held accountable in a church or talked to in any way that was Not combative but just abrasive and kind of like hey you need to get back in line So talking about that is as both of you actually I'd like to hear your thoughts on this This article and then you know the influence of feminism on the christian church all done any denomination you want to look at Yeah, when I read that article one of the things that I saw was and I don't I I agree with about one third of what the guy says And Towards the ante started talking about well scripture elevates women here in this instance Jesus, you know the first people to come to the tomb were women the women who cared for jesus If people to care for jesus were females, you know when he was on the cross and All these and the and the author keeps saying he elevated women and I'm like Scriptures not elevating women. It's not putting them down, but it's mentioning them But the scripture also mentions a lot of things So I think this guy basically scrapped the surface of the manasphere Read a little bit about it and wrote an article. I don't think he is I don't think that teabag was steeped very long in the water as far as i'm concerned. I I think it's weak To me it reminds me of your typical mother's day sermon in church, which I usually can't stand You know, all the moms get like a yellow rose or a yellow carnation And then it you know the whole sunday is devoted to You know all the women in the bible. Okay, that's cool Father's day comes around You know, we should be giving fathers like brass knuckles on Or an axe or something on Father's day sunday, you know, but it's just kind of a happy father's day. It's a mention of the church bulletin there's no My experience after being in several denominations is that mother's day is way bigger of a deal Than uh, as a matter of fact, I mean, it's on the same level as palm sunday Where everybody gets palms like all the moms get like a a flower or something like that Where's father's day kind of barely acknowledged basically Yeah, that's what i've seen but this are the article. I get it I get what he's trying to do but like I said, I don't think that teabag was steep too long In the water, right? I think it's uh, that's got a pastor or reverend or what is he? Um, Aaron can answer that Sure, I it's funny you read. I thought the article maybe it's it's just it's an issue of audience I know Aaron is trying to introduce a christian world that doesn't understand the monastery doesn't know anything about it so I think um What you might be feeling in his his uh desire to Build a bridge for the church to understand it more. I don't know but uh, Aaron Aaron is Into a city planning. He's very well educated. He worked for a think tank in new york for a long long time and has recently relocated to the Midwest not far from where i'm at I think he's a very smart guy and if you want to see where he's at that maybe a deeper dive than this article You can go to amazon prime and there's man rampant Which is a tv show that dug wilson does who's another pastor who's very conversant in sexuality And he has an episode on there with erin ren where erin ren just destroys the idea of servant leadership Which is a way to get men to be Uh, basically pack mules for women And so I think that would be a more helpful introduction for some of the guys that That are already watching the red man group are guys that are pretty deep into this world But um, but you know, i'm erin telling me once I think this he told me this or I read him say it that um That he got more practical help from reading Uh cernovich's grill a mindset than he ever did from any pastor, right? And he so I think he's he's pretty He's he's pretty hip to what's going on. I don't I think some of these guys think the man's fear is dead I think it's just going through another iteration. I think it's changing and growing for the positive actually Yeah, I Yeah, I agree and I saw that comment here somewhere at the end of the article just briefly looking through it Yeah, the man's fear is largely that's ridiculous. Yeah, it's just weird Yeah, I guess because not super familiar with it Maybe you would think that with the reddit the reddit quarantines and whatnot, but this is kind of delusional If anything the man is very kind of blew up this year last year a little bit with with you know Three major conventions and then this year we had I mean the man is to reach the new mainstream audience this year Thanks to me and and my friends with 22 convention We reached like 150 million people with links and interviews from major news sites and It actually got bigger this year In a sense But maybe what he's saying the only thing I would agree with the man is for dying I don't think it's dying but It's uh, the sub communities are kind of fizzling out and it's becoming harder to see the boundaries The lines and the sand between these distinct communities men's rights mctaugh red pill and even the pua or dating coaches these days And I think that's actually a good thing I think the man is here is blending into a larger cohesive movement and We're in like maybe a transition period right now. We're transitioning right, haha But I think it's really good and I think long term that's going to make the man is here a lot more powerful Because we're finding common ground Between these different communities by building bridges and interviews and collaborations George for example, I've been doing that a lot obviously It's like what I do all day every day, but George has been doing this a lot lately too George was interviewing recently coach Greg Adams and Sean Smith and these collabs are really important They connect communities and they connect content creators and that builds the community makes it more cohesive and bigger Also, too, if you if you just google manosphere, you're going to be led to a wikipedia entry that Basically describes us as like terrorists in the making and we're part of a hate group and whites and I'm like What the hell like I have never And believe me I I've mixed with everybody I've communicated with everybody publicly privately shared stages with everybody. I know all the players on the chess board I've never run into a white supremacist. I've never run into a potential You know serial killer a school shooter or you know, I'm thinking what the heck are they You know The southern poverty law center has a hate map or something like that and a few of our guys I think are on that hate and I'm like what and when I went to what I'm like, what are they talking about now? I'm not afraid. I am not afraid to pull back the curtain. I'm not afraid to Flip the lights on and watch the cockroaches scatter. I can give a shit because I I just I got skin in the game, but I'm not afraid to lose a little skin So I'm not here to preserve secrets in any form or fashion And honestly if I felt that there were Dangerous men in the man of sphere. I would out their asses so fast I would confront them. I would do videos on them And the people that I think are dangerous are the ones who are the extremists here I think they're they're not a danger to society. I think they're a danger to men. They're leading men astray They're leading men off a cliff, but they're not They're not responsible for that. They're the kind of people that would lead men off a cliff and they go What did I do? I didn't do anything wrong. I'm like, yes, you did asshole Yeah, you've been you've been training them to be hopeless and filled with despair for the past Several years and then you go. I didn't do anything. It's like shot the hell up. Yes, you did I will point it out And I love your your labeling of that wing of the man's sphere. You called the despair sphere. I think it's Despair a sphere. Absolutely. Perfect. Absolutely. And it's it's a quick way to Sift through Like for instance, I in the past couple years, I you know, I've been single for 17 years now Man, I went through all kinds of phases in 17 years And not all not all of those phases are uh, I'm proud of let me put it that way But that's where I was at. I don't make excuses for it. And uh, and I certainly disavow Some of those years as far as Sowing my wild oats as an older man For for lack of a better term, but I will say this that I I want to be married again And 10 years ago if you said that uh-uh five years ago if if if anyone Nobody would believe me now. I really I would want to be married again. I just When done right, it's a positive thing Michael Foster has been a wonderful influence on me, believe it or not Even though he's 20 years my junior I will say this though as I've announced it recently and most of the stuff that I do is fairly public I announced to my audience and I'll tell you what all the cockroaches came out when I said I want to get married again And I kind of tell who they've been influenced by so I've been on a blocking fest for the past Block and delete fest for the past week with the negativity and I thought Now these guys are from these are uh members of the church of epigamy. I'm assuming. Yeah. Yeah, exactly Okay, and and and I can tell because of the language the the glossary. It's almost like they're reading from the glossary And uh, they've been in they've been legitimately it's funny But it's been it's funny, but it's not funny because they've been legitimately indoctrinated To speak in a certain way and use certain language very much like Scientology That's what shall Smith is saying lately about certain components of what we see in the man's sphere that it's really like Scientology The biggest thing about cults is this It's not so much what you do to get in but what happens when you try to get out The social shaming and when you try to get out of the cult of hypergamy literally you get attacked every which way from every angle and I build a A tribe of positivity and optimism And I will never forget During the patriarch convention last year. I kept talking about hope positivity and optimism Those were the three words that I used and that was a big turn for a lot of people and people weren't used to that some bristled at the concept of hope positivity and optimism others Literally I forced others during my 21 report that I do at the convention. I forced others To contemplate the concept of hope positivity and optimism and I asked direct questions And I said in a world where everyone says I would never bring a child into this world Give us hope And tell us why we should be fathers why we should get married Why we should bring children into the world and I saw men Sit up literally get an inch taller two inches taller in their chair. I saw them puff their chest out I saw them all of a sudden say wow Finally someone asked me to explain why this is a good thing And the patriarch interviews on the 21 report are some of the most powerful interviews and I've done I Have I done a hundred of them yet? Pretty close to it, right? Probably maybe well, yeah, maybe more. Yeah. Yeah Yeah Quite a few so the patriarch conversations Were We're powerful. I remember Telling Stefan mollinoo telling everyone from syrnovich to mollinoo to elliott All the guys tenor I would at the very end of the at the very end of my conversation with them I would say look into the camera And give some hope to the person who's watching this right now and these guys would just Literally disconnect from the conversation and talk right to the camera And I will never forget Stefan saying something like get married have children save the world Yep, and and I Wasn't ready for him to say that and I it just took me back and then he looked over at me And there was this like weird uncomfortable silence and I couldn't even end the show properly. I just said Wow Wow, because it affected me. He was only three feet away from me and it blew me away And I saw the truth in that and that helped Vulcanize and strengthen my My direction that is fueled by hope positivity and optimism and I can't believe how many people fight hope Fight positivity. Oh, you're being an idealist. Oh, you're being blue pill. You're it's like shut the hell up you idiots Just shut up and I'm done arguing with idiots I'm done feeding there. They're all a lot of it's just like black pill in disguise as red pill So I mean and that so your question I think really was like a socratic kind of question socratic questioning You're highlighting the the ridiculous BS that they you know, how I can't have a child today Can you imagine having a child in today's world? It's like you live in the you know, there's the world is not perfect It's far from perfect But you live in the most comfortable ridiculously nice time in human history Like everyone before us has lived in poverty and sickness and disease and endless war And misery and no toilet paper toilet paper is still a brand new invention For our species never mind the internet and all these things and like Yeah, it's just so it's so stupid when I hear that people say that not just manners for you guys But even normies will say this stuff too. Oh, I don't know if kids because I don't want to overpopulate It's like shut the f up. You're an idiot your brainwash Vomit that crap up and stop thinking about it because it's stupid ridiculous BS Yeah, I will tell you this I grew up in the 60s In the time of khrushchev Brezhnev cold war shit. I'm talking hardcore at any minute now russia could press the button And vaporize us literally get under your get under your desk and put your hands over your head We went under our desk. We did the desk drills. We went into the basement ducked down Kiss your ass goodbye kind of stuff Did all that and there was a bunch of literature that came out in the 60s and early 70s things And even late 50s like on the beach. It was this apocalyptic stuff about nuclear bombs and The post nuclear age societies and there was a nihilism that was absolutely rampant in the 60s where people were saying Why even try it's all gonna we're all gonna end up vaporized by a bomb anyways and What have we seen in the past five or six years? Everything comes in cycles the whole post apocalyptic thing came back with a walking dead and post apocalyptic Graphic novels and and the artwork is just magnificent. I love all the post apocalyptic artwork And it's it's making a comeback and the only thing The only thing that is the bright light in that whole dark nihilistic. Why even try Russia can push the button at any minute the only light Is the man who's carrying a lantern That's it. So we have to carry that lantern Through this dark nihilistic world and show people by our lives that life is worth living Life is is wonderful when you're married. It's shitty when you when you get divorced But if you're married and have kids, it's a wonderful thing But you know what gets the most press the squeaky wheel the shitty stories Yeah guys guys that get burnt they're attracted to that kind of stuff. They want to hear they love seeing it's like They talk about the hate, you know guys guys say they hate drama. It's it's bs. Usually they love drama They love seeing guys beat up on women and this and that And there's there's plenty of subject matter today with only thoughts only fans and all this crap, you know Like it the thought apocalypse is upon us that much At least at least as a stand-up comedy kind of bit that that's very legit But I did want to bring up something I thought that was interesting too Maybe you guys have seen this website in this article, but it's a secular patriarchy And by the title you can kind of understand what it's about But he's actually I believe the christian and he's kind of promoting patriarchy Uh, what do you consider maybe biblical patriarchy, but from a secular perspective He wants to advocate it for everyone kind of like I do Uh, I'm not christian. I'm not muslim. I'm not any of these things But I really believe strongly patriarchy and building it and bringing it back a hundred percent But he put out this article about make women great again Back in january We're viewing what we're doing and make women great again and all that and he was all about it. He was ecstatic about it Um, but he brought up really good points about how 2019 when we did He was talked a lot about the patriarch condition that we did last year For the first time and now we're doing it again this year for a 21 convention And it really just brought up a lot of good points. I thought it's article I don't know if you guys are familiar with it, but Basically how bringing the patriarchy into the manisphere that wasn't really done before last year You know, I didn't it wasn't I didn't think a lot about it that way It to me it was just kind of you know, do my thing Like anthony johnson is causing trouble and bringing back the patriarchy and rounding up fathers for an awesome event But this guy really figured out and I think he put it together that this was a big point And you know, you know, well, I could say his name, but the rolery and the prod father I think was uh A champion of being against this in a way even though he was at the event it was last time he spoke at our events It really wrote because it patriarchy and traditional gender roles and biblical gender roles So to speak that really rubs a lot of the manisphere the wrong way Even having a voice in the manisphere never mind you agree with that or not whatever but That even being now present and being uh formalized into a new wing of the manisphere with a convention and content and speakers He had really ruffled a lot of blackpill feathers and like these Like ultra dark red pillars. It is don't want to hear it. You know, enjoy the decline. We're all doomed. Why have kids blah, blah, blah It's all stupid nonsense But anyway, I thought his his write up about this issue. I haven't seen it elsewhere basically I haven't seen anyone else address the basically the the injection of patriarchy the injection of of uh, you know, that level of masculinity from from a fathered perspective into the Manisphere So that was kind of cool And he also brought up a good point to this guy a secular patriarchy that when we did the patriarch edition It got a little bit oppressed in conservative media, but not much And he was that was kind of surprising because patriarchy is a really triggering word even today But he made the good point that it wasn't until men stop talking to just men It's like it's like the the feminists wanted to let us have our fun patriarchy ha ha ha But it wasn't until we're like, hey, we're going to talk to women We're going to mansplain We're going to put a conference together for women and we're going to speak from a position of masculine authority to them And they're eager and they want to hear it And he made the good point that that's really would set the feminists on fire They couldn't stand that the patriarchy, you know, men getting together Uh, they could tolerate that for a little while, but you know talking to women and make women great again With no women speakers. That was just high treason high treason But yeah, for anybody hasn't seen this article, I recommend you go check it out make them a great again secular patriarchy Uh, you just you know, sir secular patriarchy I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on that, you know the injection It was kind of sudden last year but bringing the patriarchy into the man's sphere. I think it's wonderful I'm glad you guys did it. Um, I think this is Where I found myself at odds with a lot of the people in the red pill community is that um I think patriarchy is inevitable. I think it's natural. I don't think there's any way around it Nothing can stop it. This world will always be patriarchal even now In one sense it remains patriarchal so we can say that the laws have been changed not to benefit men. So if we're speaking merely in uh In a legal sense I get what they're talking about with the sort of toxic Matriarchy and I'm with them and needing to change that but at the end of the day The the majority of the world leaders the majority of people in real positions of powers and corporations are men They still are they always will be nothing will ever ever ever stop it And I don't believe in this idea of this Feminine imperative is something that happens without men being passive. That's not me blaming men Like oh, so it's men's fault. I mean seriously It gets on my nerves when guys like just snap like that. I can't what if it is what if it is could you take responsibility for it? I'm not saying is but before you snap at me I'm talking. I'm not I'm not interested in in blaming people. I'm interested in fixing things Yes, and I believe that men are designed to be leaders I I don't think you can stop this and what we really needed to tell men Um, and this is what I tell my sons. I always tell my sons. You can do this. God made you To do this So the reason I know I can go out and get things done. Why don't have a loser mindset is I am a man I bear the image of God. God gave me the tools to do these things I I'm going to fill this world with my kids. You don't have kids. That's fine You'll die and my legacy will rule this whole place I I came And when you listen to these guys, it's a loser mindset What you don't think we can take these people are you seeing what's out there? Like look, I had this dream. It was a weird dream It's weird. I'm even going to confess I had this dream but I had a dream that uh, I was at the 22 convention and Someone surrounded our auditorium or whatever. It was like those portland looking like protesters and It was like all of the skies just went up there and just like Decimated them in a second because these are pasty white liberals, you know, like That were coddled by their middle class parents Um, you can't beat these people we can win And folks that have been on the fringe end up being committed to losing and staying on the fringe The fringe will be the mainstream eventually I have every intention of shifting the overton window. My whole thing has been to shift the overton window I've been very careful as I've done things on twitter. I've I've tried to it's it's strategic. It's calculated um It taking risks to going on shows like this people will criticize me and christianity. That's fine They can keep on losing I I have every intention of winning and moving the gospel forward and and reaching men and finding Co-beligerence and allies where we can shift things around but I think talking about patriarchy telling men no no This is normal. This is natural. You can read steven goldbergs um It was originally called the uh, white men rule is what it's called now everyone should go buy that book He it's it's actually endorsed by margaret mead, right? So she's like this terrible feminist the mother of anthropology But she says look this is solid and the whole point of the book is that there has never ever ever been a matriarchy There's been like this little blip, but the idea that there was like amazon like wonder women that stuff's nonsense That's not true That never happened Like it will always be patriarchy the question isn't will men rule, but what type of men Will rule because there is bad patriarchs Pharaoh was killing all the israelites pilot against jesus. We've seen mal seh dung. We've seen evil men Dude in parts of the middle east today with you know, they're very patriarchal So to speak societies, but you know, they they throw gays off a building as they chop women's heads off They stone women who are adulterous They what do they bury them in sand and then stone them a death in the face or something? I mean this stuff is like way way way way way way too far Uh, you know, they haven't gone through reformation yet Like christianity did hundreds and hundreds of years ago to stop this stuff Let me tell you do christian patriarchy. I've seen it Super weird Super weird. I've been in this world for a long time Um, and I've seen these guys and this is I'll probably talk about this at the convention because I don't want to give away too much but um We are coming from not just a fatherless background many of us, but a traditionalist We don't know who we are right. We don't we have a sense of location and place and history So we look for something that's why all these young men turn Different youtube personalities into like a god that if you say something negative Like I said something negative about jordan peterson and people are flipping on twitter. Do get a life, right? I've said lots of good things. I've read his book. I've thought about this critically Uh, I'm not writing everything off. Well, he's not your hero, right? But they're looking for a father and they're looking for a way to um something to replicate So in christian the way I say it is they turn an intellectual like jordan peterson into a digital daddy He really is their digital daddy. They're probably never even meet him Maybe at a conference briefly or I met him once briefly for example, but other than that he's just he's like, yeah That's like a fatherless. Yeah, it's he's their digital daddy and the many he criticized anyone like that They flip their crap. They go nuts. Yep. And so You also see in the christian world. I've seen these guys. I talked about how they're larpers Right, so this these guys will address like pa and ma from little house on their prairie And they'll stick their girls like in like little prairie muffins and no makeup and they don't have driver's license they don't really educate them and You know, look, I understand why a feminist would hate that sort of upbringing And but these guys they don't really know what it means to be a man What it needs to be a how to build a household and so they're just going to look for the thing like hey I watch a little house in a prairie that looks wholesome and good. I'd like to You know, and then you see these guys uh These guys watch these pickup artists and they start dressing like peacocks and all this and you're just like no one knows What it means to be a man. And so when we start talking about patriarchy, we can start talking about Productivity and what it actually means to lead a household and to build something bigger than yourself And get past this this larping, you know, where people just fake it and fake it and never make it You know, so I gotta I gotta add something or you really just maybe think of something that I think is I can't live and I think of this sooner So what you're talking about here in george, I know agrees with you 100 I do as well That a lot of the there's a lot of young men today in general But especially in the manuscript they come from a fatherlessness A fatherless as well as a whether it's physical or psychological or spiritual Either the father wasn't there or he might as well not have been right because he was you know Beta super beta super wimpy. He wasn't really a father in any masculine strong sense that is which is what children need Right, um, but you also said traditionalist too. I don't think it's a traditionalist, but traditionalists was really good Um, hang on a second. Thanks So what you what I realized though when you talking about these things of patriarchy in particular Last year when we did the patriarch edition and we did a patriarch conference a fatherhood conference I think we unintentionally triggered a crap ton of daddy issues in the manisphere And I think part of the split we've seen since then is actually related to this very deep Uh pain an issue that that a lot of these men have I mean this is this has to be the majority of men in the manisphere come from this background Some sort of fatherless. I mean a background of some sort And by doing a whole conference that was dedicated to strong radical fatherhood as ellie house calls it We stepped in a landmine that I didn't really intend to I'm happy to have done it I don't really mind that didn't get hurt by it but uh Yeah, that was I to me it was very natural and organic I know george has complimented me on this, but I see the manisphere as a positive future for men boys and fathers All all three and these are three demographics of of males that you don't hear described like that But I think that's the ultimate purpose of the manisphere in a fundamental sense I think that's basically why it was founded and that's where I need to keep heading Uh, especially in a unified unified front way as best we can But I didn't realize the patriarch doing a patriarch conference that was brought to me And it wasn't even my own idea really it was hunter drew and tanner who inspired hunter I guess to come to me about it to approach me over doing a conference like that, but Yeah, I think we just basically you know shock unblasted daddy. She's in the face Just by wanting to do conference or father is not even really thinking about the wider Implications it would have on the community and now that we're doing it again George is right. I think why I think you're dead on I think what When you talk about what a man can accomplish That is hard for people who don't want to change and want to remain a victim Right. So when you give people hope that might lead to action And so I think there's we know that a lot of people online Pray on on the hopeless and so like one line you basically you you'll hear in some red pill circles If you listen carefully is that hey, I have an awesome life. I have an awesome wife But you can't have this because the world sucks Right. And so it's like and it creates this really toxic Scenario where you hold this guy up like oh man, I wish I could be that guy But I can't because you know if the whole world is Feminine imperative everything's you know, and so when you give them hope it's funny people will fight you on hope And um, I just tell them no and you can do this Well, I I didn't get lucky like you. What do you mean? My wife didn't come Like pre-made like the first three years of our marriage lots of lamps were broken Intense arguments. I I don't know how we didn't kill each other And now my marriage is wonderful But it took a long time to get there and she she's a firecracker at times, you know And uh and that family photo you sent me of you guys to promote for the event and stuff She looks very happy She looks happy and she looks submissive like she looks she's in a role and she's enjoying it And I don't I don't when women smile on the internet I'm very skeptical because Especially on the whole instagram is nothing but smiles. It's kind of sociopathic. It's kind of weird But that smile on your wife's face looks very genuine and you look very masculine and stoic and your thing and The look on her face is screams like I'm a wife and I'm a mother and I'm loving it and this guy's awesome That's that's what I took when I saw that photo We went out for a walk today for I don't know we walked like four miles uh today together Excuse me. You want you went for a walk with your wife. What are you blue pill? Man, I am so No wonder you have a blue shirt a blue pill blue shirt white walking with your wife dork and now It's the worst um pray for me. But uh, we went out for a walk We talked about life and what we're doing and we're talking about how terrible modern architecture is and how we miss beautiful cathedrals and You know, if if that if that sounds like a terrible time to you then keep on Keeping on is what I tell the red pill if that's what it means to me red pill is like to just Use some Game to get some half drunk chick at a party into your bed. You think that's life, you know You you'll find out very quick that it's not We'll see. Well, you don't understand Michael is that when you got done with the walk She went monkey branched on you with four dudes. I mean There's no time. You just don't get it, man I I when I blew up a while ago on one tweet some guys like I bet I bet those aren't even his kids first off They all look like They all look like clones of me. Okay But we don't have time for that You know, I mean the problem is these guys get married and they don't start having children Why don't I I always tell people look screw the cat screw the puppy dog, you know, put a baby in her make a baby Yeah, let your love be fruitful The oven man 100% this guy's the woman the woman changes. It's amazing Like so when your wife So your wife becomes an efficiency machine once she has a baby and I love it I have to work hard to stay ahead of my wife Now now I get up about two hours before her and I'm always doing more than her But for a long time It was a real challenge because she was so productive and I'm like, I'm not gonna let this woman beat me in life So I got to say my little sister just had her second baby. I'm gonna go meet him this weekend I can't wait, but you know, since she's become a mother. She became a mother at 28 was her first kid Bryson I'm a little nephew. I love him But she has now she was getting even better in life before that, you know, she was getting her act together And so things are working out really well for and I'm loving seeing that as her brother big brother But being a mother I think has really matured her and made her into more of an adult And really set her straight even more than she was And it's just I'm so proud to see it, but I'm also really happy to see it and and and inspired in a way and kind of It's kind of impressed and kind of I don't know what the word is It gives me hope I guess for women that You know, not all of them end up single moms end up, you know ruining their lives and ruining their kids Statistically, this has been like proven and shown over and over again But some of them they get together with the father they have kids they stay married They stay together and they get better and better and more mature over time And just just seeing that in a woman, you know, I've known her my whole life I don't understand. I remember the day she was born my little sister. I was there To see her now mature into a mother and now have two kids now She's figuring that out, but she just had the kid like a week ago and the kid's brand new But she's figuring that out like like an efficiency machine like you're saying she's figuring out how to do things even better and faster And you know, she's now a stay-at-home mother again She was working part-time with my when she had one kid but now she's full time, you know, just a mother And that's awesome. That's the way it should be. I think that's a great woman happy for most of the life They should really just they should get wife top knocked up, you know So I've been promoting with make one great again And that really upsets the feminists as you can imagine your wife's up knocked up 500 more feminine, you know, all that Let's pause you though. I want I want to focus on something else here So the transform wife we talked about a little bit before the show Um, I love her tweets, you know, I'm not religious. I'm not a Christian, but man She's just awesome Her meme of uh, you know with the woman and the virgin all these things that free virgin That it that was a big inspiration for what kind of direction to take make one great again And I'm just I think she's just so fantastic. I've talked to her on email a couple times too. She's great But uh, what to see what your thoughts are on her for example She's very what I one of the things I like she tweets about most Is that she tweets against and is very against openly against female preachers in any christian church, I think Uh female whatever reverends and pastors. She's really against it And she quotes from the bible for why this is and this and that do you guys agree with that and you have comments on you know literal female preachers and pastors and christian churches and what kind of influence that's having I agree 100% Okay Yeah, I agree. Um, so there's all sorts of scriptures black and white and then there's a lot of gray There's certain things in scripture that are not open to interpretation There's clear as you want them, but then there's things like baptism george and I we baptize babies We're paid about this, but some people don't do that and there's a deep argument there But when it comes to women preachers, you literally have a verse that couldn't even I mean you couldn't ask for a better verse To make it clear and I'll read it to you right here. This is uh first Timothy chapter 2 verse 12 He says a woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man But to remain quiet for it was adam who was first created and then eve And it was not adam who was deceived but the woman being deceived fell into transgression So paul who wrote who wrote that first timothy? He says look because of the order of creation adam's made first then the woman therefore women can't teach And why that's as important is that it has nothing to do with the fall The temptation that happened and everything all the screwed up stuff that followed that it's rooted Not in culture, but in the very design of men and women every time a woman A denomination adopts Female ordination the denomination goes rapidly into liberalism and part of it is women Women do two things that are not good for leadership. Number one I'll give you an example. I uh I uh was trying to come up with names for my daughters And my wife I was like what about this name? No, there's this girl in third grade. I didn't like her I was like third graded. What are you talking about? Well, what about this name? No, there's this other girl and And I'm thinking man women hold grudges where I remember My friend he was weird team captains on the wrestling team He called me a name and I told him I bet you don't have the guts to whisper that in my ear He was way bigger than me and he whispered in my ear and I slugged him as hard as I could Right because I knew I couldn't hit him if I came in because I had to trick him Um, we were like fine later that day. I don't hold grudges men We we're conflict is how we sort out the pecking order Women though conflict for them is like total warfare. And so they're not good in leadership The other thing is they also want to include people and part of the church is Including and excluding right so as pastors you have to say no, that's not true. That's a false teaching Therefore I'm so well you hurt my feelings. I don't really care about your feelings. It's about whether this is true or not Well, women were like, hey, we want them to feel included. Well That brings in liberal things and the church goes liberal and dies Really quick. So it's it's not just wrong, but it's bad. So wrong morally theologically but bad practically what it does to the church And so absolutely she's right Yeah, and I really agree too with what you said earlier about men just being leaders men are designed to be leaders Uh, I mean, I agree 100 it's a very masculine thing. Women do not lead I think women lead children fine And that's I think that's what they're designed to do especially young children Maybe a little bit older too, but especially when they're young, you know, they They seem to interact better with babies and there's probably some evolutionary biological reasons for that Empathy and you know auditory cues things like this But yeah, they don't lead they don't lead each other well And they don't lead men at all or when they try it just goes off the rails like that Like you're saying in the church here They value feelings over facts and what is true like you're just saying men do prioritize much more aggressively What is true and what is false they sort and sift black and white true and false And the women are like well, what about the feelings and it's like Feelings are not unimportant, but they're not number one here. Number one is what is true and what is false Exactly. I mean from their perspective though, they see it. I mean it's it's been interesting as I've gotten More and more into the red pill and stuff. It's like women from their perspective A lot of them really have a tough time grasping that because they really Their feelings are so important to them That's why they they differ with us in this way and they just have to do it But I do believe it's a man's job in a man's role, especially in a relationship to demand the priority be Reality in a sense truth What is true and what is false that's a good way to say it is that Um instead of saying feelings versus fact, which is fine But another way to say for men we build our relationships on truth Where women will uh, they'll align their truth to the relationships a lot of times because it's If you think about her job is to be a help mate to a man and to raise a family So her whole life is about knitting people together and nurture in relationships And that's really good in its proper context But we our job is to expand borders and keep out bad things And so that's why men must be pastors women are terrible pastors No, I want to pause here and yeah, that's savage. Let's just let's just women are terrible pastors I think lori alexander would retweet that in a heartbeat. Yeah, a hundred percent. She's great Now here's a different question. I want to get into Uh a couple I've actually listed things I want to get into we've just been talking here endlessly back and forth about organically right here But talk to me about the spirit of jezebel Do you have comments on this? This is a christian thing. I believe spirit of jezebel Are we seeing that a lot more today with feminism? Is that spirit of jezebel at a wide scale? open open floor on this george tag george yeah, I I've seen uh Jesse lee peterson talk about it coach greg adams is really on it right now the whole What's he called our jazzy bell in order to not get banned or something like that And it's basically a a story truthful story about how A woman caused a lot of trouble And Throughout history Um How many how many women in the world are named mary? a lot Right because of the virgin mary But not a lot of people name their daughter jezebel Yeah The the name mary is a beautiful name. It's It's uh, it brings comfort even just the name brings comfort to people the name jezebel makes people like dig their feet into the ground and nails and like You would never name a daughter jezebel because it it's synonymous with trouble and rebellion and uh Toxic i'm an entity Toxic femininity all the way yeah, so to me that's the spirit of jezebel so to speak okay Michael do you have any comments on this? um Yeah, you know, there's a really good article by uh robert lopez or bobby lopez and he was a guy caught up He got cancelled. He's a he's a christian professor um He was a homosexual, but repented of that lifestyles got married and is a wonderful man a good guy He's wrote a really good article that breaks down The the story in the old testament about ahab And jezebel so i encourage everyone to google that i'll tweet it out when i find it but um Yeah, so jesus in revelation talks about how in one of the churches that there's a woman that he calls the jezebel that's That's teaching people and encouraging fornication and all this and Yeah, we see a lot of women like this nowadays, you know the church these women You know, not very many of them are ugly They all have like a sort of appeal to them a sexual appeal at some level Um, maybe they're on the other side of uh the bell curve You know approaching or or i think they're they're compensating for a lack of inner beauty a lot of the time They have to overdo the outward appearance. Yeah, the same with the fake smile. Fake smile. Fake smile is signaling Yeah, i think probably i'm i'm a little more worried about The i think white knights are the biggest problem If if i had to choose to be stuck in elevator with a radical lesbian feminist Or a white knight, I would choose to work being feminist I think we'd have a better conversation Because I love reading radical feminist books. They're so honest, you know, like shulamite firestone betty freeden They just more or less tell you what they believe but when i'm with white knight christian guys They're so duplicitous and they they they're so two-faced and fishy males fishy males Yes, right. These are the guys that are in control of the church and they cater to women And not to men and they're always posturing themselves as as this fair balanced Guy but they always side with the women no matter what and they were michael Do you believe as a pastor? It is your it is your mission my god to root A white knight garbage out of the church I'll do what I can. I hate it. Um, yeah, i'm here. I'm here to destroy anything that goes against scripture. Yeah, man Yeah, i'm uh, uh, jesus is the only way He you're saved by the life death and resurrection of jesus christ. You need to have faith to believe in it I think everyone I want to convert everybody. I don't hide it But that we can have a conversation, you know, my whole like uh when i'm coming down in the manager I I speak at professional conferences I don't do an altar call on him, but i'm a christian all the time. This is who I am God has plucked me out of the moray pit and I hate I hate the white knightism in the church. I despise it. I actually had people recently A bunch of women complaints complained to some elders at a church And those elders wanted to talk to me about some things I tweeted And uh, so they're like they see themselves as more reasonable and tactful than me And they wanted to talk to me and I was like, look, I'm not sorry. I don't apologize for anything I I meant it. I'll say it again And I know you think you know how to do things better than me, but you're wrong and we'll find out Yeah, that's better. Basically cowards I could see you have you have courage and conviction in what you do and these men are just cowards And they try to dress it up I think with uh with appeals to christianity and god, but it's it's all bs. Yeah, they're hiding duplicitous like you're saying Yeah, it's bs. There's good men in those systems Trying to incrementally change it, but they're so outnumbered You know, I think I know a lot of guys that I could think of a few pastors Who were wussy feminists a decade ago, but they woke up somehow by god's grace. They read some good books but now they're in this system evangelicalism and It's like trying to steer a cruise liner It's really hard to move it and they have to decide whether they're going to be hated or not And they need to make the right decision the the thing that you want more than anything this life Jesus said Jesus said a good example, right? I mean he was he was hated about me. He was crucified in the end. Yeah That's right Yeah, one thing. Um, I wanted to say to you know, I'm not a christian myself I was raised catholic though. So I'm familiar with uh some christian teachings, but I was baptized confirmed You know communion all these things But what I can say is that I really believe strongly. That's why I like christians hardcore ones You guys are great tanner is a good example all these guys. I love it Uh, you guys have strength in your convictions and you really believe in what and your beliefs Um, I don't mean to sound like some sw feminist either double speak I really mean that And I love it because I believe it's it's beyond important in this life as a man And then eventually as a father and whatever if you become a father To have powerful beliefs and to believe in what you do and to have conviction No matter and independent of what your conviction is like I really respect it Uh, because what I hate most and what I think is most dangerous is not having strong beliefs Like you're like you're saying about those radical feminists You'd rather be in an elevator with a radical feminist to really believe in what they've what they thought, right? Even to those garbage nonsense rather than these these, you know, squishy Woosie made it beta males these wimpsies by these white knights I because I think it's very dangerous because it leaves them open, you know Whether it's a liberal These antifa little weirdos these weak men, you know, this she mails It leaves them open to being manipulated by really really toxic crap And the people like you're saying the radical feminists when they write a lot of times they're open And they they tell you what they believe and it's horrible. They want to destroy the family for example and all this crap They want to reduce men to 13 percent of the population gender side. Some of this stuff is just beyond insane Absolutely, but I think it's even worse though when they don't have a strong belief system It has become the the sheep and the sheep can be then turned into either let off a cliff Or they can be turned into a really disgusting movement antifa to be one example today and BLM and stuff So powerful beliefs are so important in this life and I love seeing that and you guys even if I don't agree with all of it I love it. Like I really I thrive around it. I have so much fun Tanda like I said, you know tanner is one of my favorite guys because he's like so just like you He's like 100% religious 100% in this case. He's Mormon 100% Mormon 100% of the time I'm like, yes, this is fantastic 100% patriarchy 100% of the time that's interesting point too is that the convention in george knows it's really well from being there So many times but it's such an amazing coalition of demographics generations of races and faiths And it's so rare that you see that today. You heard talked about but it's all BS You never see it but at our convention and it's a representation of the manisphere All all 21 convention is is the offline manisphere gathering a collection of leaders and of delegates in a sense But you know, how often do you see, you know, Muslims and Jews and Christians and Baptists and Catholics and Mormons? all hanging out Like getting along, you know really getting along well having dinner and you know drinks and cigars or whatever and they come together on these common values of family and sometimes their faith but also fatherhood and You know relationships and marriage and masculinity It's so amazing, man, you know if uh, yeah, I don't know But yeah, it's just I just love seeing it. I love seeing it come together and it's It's so rare and it's so powerful to see you guys come together because all you guys too you'll believe in your stuff I mean, you're not you're not a Mormon, you know, Michael But Tanner is but you guys have a lot of common ground with Christianity and then with family and with patriarchy and with fatherhood And knocking out unlimited kids unlimited babies Tanner and I are at the very least cobalt adrens. We would have deep theological disagreements. I know we would but right now Right now on line in terms of the enemies that are We'll sort out our difference the enemies that are around us are a little So it's with trump is a great example What's happened when when trump got elected everything changed like put I was a third party voter I was an ignorant condescending libertarian, right? So libertarians exist to be above the fray Oh, I didn't vote for them. They can always say that they never want to like own it and that's who I was But then I and I thought I couldn't vote for trump because I just never thought he would keep his promises I thought he was a new york lure bull and he was just lying. Well, I was the guy the guy wants to keep his promises He's not a he's not a great representation of Christianity but uh But he he has a sort of integrity and energy and so it's changed the whole political Lines, right? Everything's different. And right now we're we're going through some massive upheaval in the west That this is historical. We're living through this is like a big deal And folks are just starting to catch on that 2020 Is going to keep 2020. We're going through something different And so it's the way we fight and who are cobalt adren's and who our allies are and whatever Um, it's it's very complicated right now to figure out. So it's it's key to have integrity Stick to what you believe don't don't compromise, but you do have to have Your wits about you and and have an end game in mind. So it's tricky This is a killer point man the the the alliances and the enemies that you have that you share This is huge. That's another reason So that at the convention when we see these guys in different races and faiths and demographics different generations, you know, completely They they get along on common values and common goals Uh positive masculinity fatherhood patriarchy pushing back against feminism all this stuff But you bring up an important point that you know radical feminists and these these liberal weirdos and these green-haired You know nut jobs They hate both you and tan are equally the fact that uh all of you guys like christians, right george too The fact that you guys have kids the fact that you're leading your families and all this They hate that they want to destroy the family where there's the mormon family or a catholic family or a presbyterian family or whatever They don't care They don't they don't even they don't have any respect or interest in the differences That are important to you and tanner yourselves. They don't care That is nothing it means nothing to them because it all has to be destroyed because it's all toxic patriarchy evil patriarchy bs They're all just nilists that want to nilists or nilists every say it I call them it's like it's uh It's the philosophy of the zero is what iron rand called it philosophy of the zero zero zero zero zero Zero family zero patriarchy zero femininity zero masculinity zero capitalism. It's always zero zero zero zero zero That's the equality they want they want to equalize everything down to zero so that we all suffer die and start to death You don't want to live by rule zero, right? Um But I'll give you I'll give you an analogy Okay, so if we think of the west or our country as a boat And it's taken on water and you have two sets of people You have the sets of people that are throwing the water out of the boat And you have the sets of people that are trying to bring more water into the boat All right, so the ones that are trying to keep the boat afloat They are your allies like it or not Those those are the people that are committed to staying alive at the moment Those that are trying to put more water in the boat to sink it. They're the enemies And so right now like folks that are trying to get water out of the boat Well, like we may not like each other and we may have some significant differences But we we have this we are committed to survival into getting to our family Those that are trying to sink the thing there are enemies And and so that's I think really hard for some Christians to see because I I have I have some pretty I have very mixed friend groups, right? And uh, and that's because you know, this is how will we ever how will I ever Introduce people to the gospel if I'm not friends with people I disagree Well, look at the convention you're speaking about 21th convention patriarch edition That's not a Christian conference. Yeah, you guys are taking a risk on me And I'm taking a risk on you we're taking a risk on each other and um And and folks have to see that and that's where we're at right now We have to like we need bold men that are willing to trail Blaze and also keep this this boat from sinking and figure out like what's what's next, you know The church is the church in america Denominatially speaking is almost dead I'm not I'm not saying there aren't good pastors and good congregations But the mains everything is so far gone right now That I I can't I get in trouble for saying things that were commonplace just a couple hundred years ago This is what the church has taught for 2,000 years and I say it now and you act like I'm some radical You're the radical I'm saying you're the fringe person that somehow stolen this because we we sat in our hands at some point We're a nice what we should have been mean And this is where we're at. This is awesome, man. You're my favorite pastor, man. You and Jesse Lee. This is great, man Yeah, but this is a great point. Yeah, you guys were allies and we're putting water Yeah with the water analogy brought up. This is great. Yeah, I love it, man And uh, yeah, you know, I'm not a christian myself. Like I like I'm not really religious at all I'm not jewish and muslim any of this stuff. I'm part oscanazi jude genetically supposedly According to my blood results, but you know, whatever at the end of the day though I don't get a pass either just because I'm an objectivist atheist and all that that doesn't matter The fact that I like fatherhood and I like masculinity and I hate feminism They won't be dead, too You know, they they won't it's rare that they'll sometimes they'll say that but usually they'll just try to starve me to death cancel me And all this crap But yeah, they hit they hit me too, you know, it's uh We're all in this together in these uncertain times these uncertain times in the new normal Unprecedented times how many emails did you get from some ignorant spotify CEO telling us in these unprecedented times? We want to know that we stand with you now by this Yeah, exactly. Hey, I want to switch gears a little bit. I want to talk about adam and eve This to me This is, you know, the the origin as far as I know the creation creation myth of all the abrahamic religions The three main ones and then these other one little smaller ones, too But I really think this is relevant to the manusphere. I mean it's relevant to a lot of things obviously, but I want to talk about adam and eve The creation myth here because I view it as basically there's a lot too in christianity And that's different also from how the muslims and the jews interpret it Um with original sin and stuff like that But I view it as not only, you know, they say the fall from grace, but I say it's the fall of the relationship between men and woman Uh is one of the ways I view it It's a woman, you know, not not looking to a man and all just disobeying god as well of another man A masculine the father, right? But it's a woman not seeking a man's uh council and leadership And so it's the fall there and it's also the man though not keeping an eye on his woman, uh, you know keeping His leadership intact and proactive. We'll call it progressive progressive leadership So he talked to me about adam and eve and uh your interpretation of it and how what it means to you as a pastor Sure, and the man is here as well. It relates to the manusphere Yeah, so I'll just put my cards on the table. I don't I don't look at it as a myth I look at it as as history. I think genesis chapter one is written in a poetic form It's like a prologue that sets up. Here's how things were made It and then it zooms in on day six, which is all about Men and women and there's some real important things adam is made From the ground brought to the ground to work the ground And so man is oriented towards things shaping things woman is Made from the man and brought to the man so women are highly relational and and they're they exist in orbit around a godly man of good Man and they work together to build things and so they're supposed to have this wonderful Relationship that leads to productivity, but instead Um eve gives into the way of the serpent the serpent should have been kept out of the garden That was adam's job was to he was put in the garden to keep in gardens the Hebrew words there to protect it And he fails in that way and the woman listens to the serpent Uh gives the apple to adam or the fruit whatever it was And then they fall and there's this sense of shame then god comes and he curses them And the curse is super interesting. He curses, uh adam for listening to the voice of your wife Right, so adam's main failure was for and that's genesis chapter three. It's it's very clear He shouldn't have listened to eve But he did and so his failure was a failure of leadership right there of being on mission for god God gave him a mission rule reign subdued keep and protect the garden be fruitful multiply and that woman Of because she had a quest for more knowledge and she should Failed right and he went along with it and he never should have and so you can actually see a sort of man not being on mission in the fall Um, but uh, so then he curses man. He says look now when you work the ground It's not going to be easy. It's not going to bear fruit It's going to be thorns and thistles and you're going to sweat So man's area of productivity is cursed and anytime you want to fix a car I always look like hey, this is going to be super easy Who can't fix brakes and then I take apart my toyota and then there's some little ignorant pin on on the The rotor that I didn't know was going to be there and it turns into this whole event right and so work is hard But then when he curses the woman he curses her, uh, that she's going to bear children In pain and that's not just labor but in life children are very difficult for a woman Like when she sends her baby is a way to college. That's difficult on a woman The whole process is letting them go but also that she'll Want to rule over her man and that's a parallel with the Sin wanting to rule over a cane in chapter four of genesis. So it's a desire to rule a man So instead of being this helper and working together There is a inbuilt desire for a woman to at times supersede Her man and tell him what to do and that and that's this that's the purpose of every sitcom ever Right the nagging wife and the guys are screwed up or whatever, but um and it's super unhealthy. It's super toxic Oh, it's terrible. You can't get anything done, right? And you guys gotta So just like a guy can't give up on work And he can overcome the curse there to some degree a woman can overcome the curse my wife submits to me Like I never have to demand submission. Maybe like three times in our marriage You know, like I don't know what these guys are always like Commanding a woman to submit like that's gonna work. I don't know what you're talking about like submit But but I do say she should want to she should be uh, she'd be natural for her to do it. Yeah I do rebuke her when she doesn't I do say look, what's difficult here? I've told you what we're doing Why why are you not following me on this? Where are we where are we odds here? You know, and I do reason with her but um, so that that's all right there But the thing I want people to know is the devil hates sex. He hates it, right? He hates sex because he hates order Uh in scripture this is where I I differ with Jordan Peterson. Jordan Peterson is a Uh young Ian dualists. He sees everything as order and chaos and this eternal balance or whatever. I bullcrap I don't buy it. I I god orders the world god is a god of order and not of chaos is what scripture says So the devil wants to break down patriarchy Because patriarchy brings order to the world and when there's an order to the world a rebel can't stage a rebellion And so by turning the sexes against each other Creating a sex war a gender war There's confusion and so who's behind the gender war? Well, the devil is man This is part of his thing men and women complement each other and should work together We shouldn't be competing and so part of my message is fighting against androgyny Which is downplaying the distinctions between men and women and and these guys that are Feeding into the chaos and the gender war. They're doing the devil's work And and I see that in the red pill. I see that in feminism not all red pill obviously But I see some all not all not all but some but you know I'm talking about there's guys that like they straight up I do think they hate women and they think they're all their goods for a sex And I think like the dudes you're you're weak and have Your problem is that you have too small of a vision and so I see all that coming out of genesis That's very a big deal to to the way I think and shapes everything. I think they're prototypical It's the art of the what man and women should be and we know that because jesus when he's uh, I think it's It's either matthew it's matthew 19 Jesus says have you not heard from the beginning? We made a male and female and he restates it and says This is the basis for marriage. So we know that it wasn't just pre-fall But it carries on to all history This is you want to be like adam go conquer shape do it you want a woman that follows you There's going to be thorns and thistles. She's going to buck sometimes But you can still build something together As as you work these things out through the power of the gospel. That's that's what I preach anyhow Yeah, I love it man. I phrase it a little differently usually I call it the collapse of gender relations Uh, I think it's what we're seeing with feminism. I think I think it's the most intense. We've ever seen it Since maybe you know out of many of like literally there. Yeah, when I said myth I was just kind of reading off Wikipedia and it mean to belittle your beliefs or anything like that Oh, I didn't take it that way. I mean there's this this is the marketplace of ideas. Let the best idea Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah the collapse of gender relations. I see it as a as a lethal kill shot to the west and to america Uh, you know, you have a you have a specific, uh, biblical god christian view of this You know with that or without it I think the collapse of gender relations like you're talking about I agree with you on these issues It's going to kill america and it's going to kill western civilization if it it's not If it is not stopped and if it is not healed and if it is not made more positive and Like you're saying complimentary and working together in these things. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing, man And and there is yeah, I agree with you too that there is some real There is some legitimate toxicity in the man's sphere and in certain in certain communities And I'm not trying to hate on them. I get where they're coming from like if if you've lost everything if you've had these women Lead you on or whatever. I mean, I understand where people are Are burning, but do you want to stay there or do you want to move on? Do you want do you want that to be the defining moment in your life? Or is that the moment you pivot to do something greater? Yeah, they got to go to george brunos channel and get unstuck They're stuck gotta unstuck them unstuck them george before we move off this topic. Do you have any comments on the The the belief I don't know what word to use now Anyway adam and eve the story of adam and eve and how this happened and its influence on the man's sphere and its relation to feminism and gender roles and gender gender relations That we see today that are in america. I think collapsing before eyes Yeah, along with michael foster. I also believe it's a historical account But a lot of lessons come out of that a lot of lessons and you can see eve and a lot of women You can see adam and a lot of men and We have to be We have to be taught, you know, I look at it this way uh in psychology The field that I spent most of my career in There was always to talk about nature versus nurture all the time And I also believe there's a spiritual nature and a spiritual spiritual Nurture as well and I do believe that When it comes to spiritual nature I do believe men Want to build You get two boys digging holes in the backyard Like two, you know, like eight-year-old boys digging holes And one's gonna say my hole's bigger than your I dug mine deeper Like I did more like it's naturally built within us to want to move shake to move the earth whereas A woman a little girl Will have five dollies around a table and serve all of them tea and they're all going to get along and she talks to them I mean at five years old little girls do this it's Is that nature or nurture? Girls are quieter. They talk They make their dolls talk to one another little girls They they want their dolls to get along whereas boys make noises. They don't Talk They they make gun sounds power tool sounds explosion sounds We are different and I do believe that the narrative of adam and eve shows The genesis no pun intended Of what happened where we went wrong as human beings as men as women and It's not just a problem there, but there is a solution and an outcome and the outcome is That they had to rely on god period to survive and Rather than be independent the story wasn't like well then adam Went his own way. He became a migtail and eve became a feminist and the story doesn't The story doesn't end like that The story is is it's grand and it's glorious And I think that's what we need to see and not stop at the enmity and not stop at the toil But look at what they created they are our father and our mother And they represent us You know would I have done any different? Adam represents me perfectly eve represents females perfectly. Yeah Yeah, I make mistakes. Yeah simping and disobedience and I guess feminist culture is slot culture salute culture. I call it Yeah in the end So let's actually shift gears a little bit more. We need to wrap up soon But I did want to talk about making women great again and slut culture slut culture salute culture Uh specifically, you know from a christian perspective religious perspective, but you know, michael What was your first response when you saw your first thought and reaction when you saw Makele McGrady again, and you saw us, you know going about with the media and stuff earlier this year millions of people reached You know, what are your thoughts on that? What had your wife respond to it too? Uh, she thought it was funny She thought it was hilarious So she watched she watched one of your interviews and she thought she she appreciated your your straightforwardness I forget which one it was but um, look, I've had people trying to cancel me for a long long long time and And I get a message We joke about it. I get a message about once a week sometimes more of some a woman Like telling me how I don't understand how my words hurt people or sometimes it's her husband like talking about it's really She put them up to it. So I always have these women telling me how terrible of a misogynist. I am and all this and uh Because i'm willing to apply standards to women and actually call women out for their sins just like scripture does you know what I mean like I I don't uh It's not the only thing I do um the reason I speak mostly to men is because I honestly I think they're easier to fix like I think women I have just been screwed over And unlike it's like the big christmas ball of lights, you know, where do I start to untie this thing? And honestly the reason I agreed to speak at the 22 convention is to force myself to start to think about it a little harder Um, because I know what scripture mandates and what's true and what's good Now, how do I help women? Who bought into the lie for the bulk of their 20s got a lot of school debt Slept around with a lot of people, you know, we're at least getting into the low double digits In number of partners for a lot of these people How do I how do I help these women? Where do we start because I I can't just ignore them but um It's so for me it's a challenge and I think it's good for us to to want to help these women out like there's a sort of like uh Tongue-in-cheek coinus to the website right make women great again and and that's that's marketing That's playing playing around but these are our sisters. These are our mothers This these are the people that are going to be examples for our daughters And so we have a commitment to trying to help them Um, because I don't want them to be miserable. I don't want a world full of miserable women. Honestly The only the worst person to be around is a miserable woman And so you describe my position on these issues perfectly man This is exactly how I believe about it and that's the reason there's a tongue-in-cheek kind of coinus to it And it really comes from place of joy and the funny and these things I know it's going to rile people up and antagonize them and polarize them, which is useful Strategically, but it's also a place of positivity. I want women to do well, particularly my country woman Uh beyond that too from canadian women and british women and all that. They're affected by feminism as well But you know, I'm focused on I live in america. I was born in america. I love my country I don't want to see a hundred and you know 60 million or whatever women do bad They're doing really bad anyway. I don't want to see that continue I want to see them do better and that means abolishing feminism and making women great again And getting them back in the kitchen and pregnant knocked up and wiped up and stuff What I always tell women I was like, look, you're going to serve the patriarchy one way or another There's no way around it. So what what you do is you get your degree And then you go to this corporation that almost certainly is male led Right the the uh ceo the the board whatever it's male led And you're going to work there probably middle management's where most of them are So speaking on averages and you're going to give your life to this corporation And I've worked in corporate america and I've fired people and I've been fired And like sometimes I fire a guy or a guy moves on and I'm like, oh, I'm sad that he's not around anymore But then I hire someone else to move on with my life these women give their life to these corporations And they'll replace them in a second. They get some cheesy glass reward, you know top sales top whatever So you can build up that household you can think of a corporation as this household with this father head on it or Or you can marry a man and together you can build a household And if my wife died today, my life would be forever changed And she would lose she would she would leave a gap in my heart and my life and my children Who she would she's already shaped them forever Don't women want to have that influence Want to get that credit children that love you and look up to and no one can make food quite like you No one can like, you know We our children will remember their mother forever She will get praise and and glory from them But you work for corporate america and you you pick up some some dude on tinder Um, you think that's a satisfying life You think you're gonna be satisfied when I'm old next to my wife And we look at what we made. We're gonna be full of joy. She's gonna be happy She's happy to be married to me and what we're building Right. I am a man worthy of her time and that's what I saw other men be worthy of their time Don't I have these guys that keep trying to they do all the game stuff And so women like interesting men so they try to be interesting. I'm like you're doing it wrong Like become interested like become interested in things don't do it for the women just become that man So think of it. Here's my big picture Is gravitas is a roman virtue that men should be working towards so the word glory talks about weight So when we talk about god is god has glory god has the ultimate weight the ultimate gravitas And so god's like the sun in our universe and we all go around him But man should be like our earth and the woman should be like the moon And so so me and my wife we go around god together. He's the center of our life But she also goes around me in orbit and so men how do you get your wife to submit to you? I have more gravitas than her I I love it for now. Jesus is perfect And and so i'm always telling guys look get gravitas. How do you hold? How does earth hold the moon in its position? Is it by command? It's by gravity Yeah, yeah, how do you get so virtue you get virtue. It's very simple. You throw yourself into life You actually work with your hands. You actually do it And so I have these guys that call me up and ask for advice and there's this sort of autistic nature to the red pill You know, like it's like ass burgers where they want stuff one two three And then what do I say on the date and then how do I what's the proper like if there's a two set How do I approach it this way and all this stuff, you know, and you're like, okay, dude This isn't paint by numbers at best. I can give you is bob ross Right, you need to take big principles and apply them but take risk go do it if you fail so what Right life is full of abundant opportunities. I want to I want to interject here. This is important I think especially so I've thought for a long time that and you're a perfect example of this too, Michael And george is george. It's an extent as well But particularly you and tanner is you know, you have these huge families and your patriarchs and whatnot You guys have so much better game Then the average pickup artists dating coach like Most of these single guys would have much better success with women so to speak They listen to you guys because you get women. You guys are very very attractive to women. I know that for a fact no homo Uh, but because of the certainty in your voice and the way you live your life and the principles that are guiding you that you're speaking about And that I believe you act on by the commit the way your the tone of your voice is coming across This is like candid a woman Especially in today's like wimpy beta male soym soymail culture the soy face on this crab This is like this is like crack to women because you're like, you know interesting and this Woman love it man. Yeah, your wife's living in heaven man. Heaven is uh in her home with you. I guess That's a Listening I just say you can do it. Just give yourself go build something worthy bees be a man That women don't want you to be the center of the world They weren't made at eve was brought to adam not adam to eve Right adam was first then eve. It's a created order. And so just like that's the value That's how a christian can actually listen to the 21 convention. Okay, so some of it's highly philosophical And there'll be some disagreements, but uh, so take jack donovan and I have some very different ways of looking at the world however, when I read the way of men it was It was one of the better books I read on male male interactions. I was like, this is actually Really good. And I honestly think robert glover's No more mr. Nice guy for all its psycho babble and stuff when you get right down to it May be the best book that In the manosphere in my in my opinion like at least for most guys But I can I read that I was like, yeah, I did do that whole covert contract thing Don't I you know, I don't I want to kill that so I think the guys can learn the practical stuff I'd love to see more of it in the church, but Until then I'm glad that guys can go to youtube and and listen to these guys on how to to work on these things and build gravitas I'm just highly I got it. I believe in all this. I agree. I just highly You can't it's hard for you to imagine maybe maybe not but How amusing it is for me to see guys like you and tanner just live your life and do your thing And I know that there are women walking around that would have sex with you a hundred times faster Like their life dependent on it versus your average pickup artists You guys are so much more attractive to the average woman for the average woman to be attracted to you than All these dudes are just it's all fake nonsense or all losers. This beta guy this pastor once told me I'll give you This is really funny. He was trying to take me down a notch This was a ministry and ministry ministry can be just brutal man because Ministry is full of guys that are very blue-pilled minded beta guys that are really good at management And because because nice guys are so concerned about opinions and how people look at them in appearance That will get you pretty far ministry But this guy was trying to take me down or not. She's like, look, you're not even very handsome to which I thought was hilarious I was just like look dude. I've never had an ugly girlfriend my whole life and my wife's beautiful I think you don't understand What makes a man attractive like there are men that are just beautiful men that the cemetery or whatever is solid But what guys need to understand Like this I remember talking to an asian guy. He was really short He was talking to me about how sure he was and how women don't like short men. I'm like, dude Stop it. Stop getting stuck on that one attribute. What control the controllable is you're not going to get taller overnight Don't go get big shoes. You look like a fag. Don't do that. Um, you need to You know, I mean like with big heels to get Robert De Niro Robert De Niro does this And so instead what do you have get gravitas? Like be like get convictions stand for something Yes, good at things like I knew a good friend of mine. I was telling him the other day I was like, dude, I felt like he started skydiving and riding a motorcycle because it looked risky And you thought women would dig it. I think you should skydive if you really like it Not for women. He said I do like it and I was like because I told my wife when someone skydives and they're like tied to a man Right that to me doesn't look very manly It's like it's like a kid or an ergo on the front here or something. But um, build gravitas And uh, this is why men men in ministry fall into adultery Is because women are very much attracted to ministers because attraction for a woman is is a contextual To status, right? So it's the quarterback. It's the the department chair It's the and you'll hear these women say, oh, I want to be a pastor A wife. No, you don't you know what it means to be a pastor's wife My wife gets criticized by women because for every little thing and our kids are under the Magnifying glass what she's really saying is I want a high status male. Yes That's I mean, it's all there that's going on. And so what I tell guys like just Maximize go as far as you can have godly ambition Be great Work at it and women will come it's like sex the way you get lots of sex Is two things one you ask your wife for it. Can we have sex? You have a good wife. You're like, yeah, let's go do it Um, the other way is just be in control of your environment and the woman will always want to have sex with you It won't be our problem. And so it's funny that sex Is a is a buy is a product of living a manly life the more focused you're on it the less you'll get it um and and women are a buy Attracting a woman is by and large A byproduct of being a man So just go be a man find find a tribe to run with that find a father find a mentor You know mentors that are good You have to ask them a mentor. I'm busy. I dude. I got so much going on I'm not going to ask you a lot of times, you know, so I don't I'm gonna preach you now go on. Sorry. This is great, man. I love it You guys go off and this is fantastic Uh, last question I wanted to go off before we you know end the show here So last question open to both of you. I've seen doll rocks say from a christian perspective and I thought it was It was interesting stuck with me. This is like six months ago or something And he was talking about romantic love In in christianity, but in culture even more wildly, but specifically in christianity Romantic love is important, but he said it was basically now being Uh, and not even romantic love is love in general like this kind of vague disambiguated version or whatever It was being prioritized over Uh, you know being fruitful multiplying and basically I don't I don't I don't remember the exact phrasing of it Basically, he was saying that romantic love and this is wrong like and from a christian perspective They shouldn't do this romantic love is important, but it should not be placed above Children and building a family and these things Do you have any thoughts on that and how that's that's evolved in the church today for christian men And for women and whatnot Does that make sense to you what I'm when I'm getting across here Yeah, you're talking about how romantic love sanctifies marriage is what he would say all the time Yeah, yeah, it's just it was interesting that he was just saying that it's it used to not be like that it was Uh, and you maybe even divorce hasn't as a relation to this too It's like well, you know woman today at the furthest divorce for force like oh, I feel I don't love him anymore I love him, but I don't love you and they just them a good divorce And from a christian perspective, this is wrong and it says not the purpose of marriage I guess is bigger than love is what he was saying and a lot of christians seem to have forgotten that And then you don't feel like you're in love and then instant divorce boom adios Who cares if it's a sin or whatever, right? I'd like to hear yours. You've seen you guys some years. You've seen the changes over the last few decades I'd love to hear what you have to say Yeah, who wrote the book, uh, I think it was sacred marriage. Remember that Gary thomas was gary thomas And he asked the question. I remember one thing from the book that I read probably I probably read it back in 89 or 90 And he said what if What if the purpose of marriage is to make you holy and not make you happy? And I'll tell you what that just screwed that screwed me up man. That just messed up my head for years And I thought wait a minute Thing I've been taught, you know, I got redpilled at that moment about marriage and I thought to myself holy cow What if God brings a woman in my life to make Better man Not to deplete me but to make me better To make me more holy to make me more obedient to god to make me, uh, literally a better man Filled with integrity godliness discipline Versus just like woo-hoo. I have a hot wife. I have a wife that makes me dinner Gives me sex whenever I want like woo-hoo like she's not a toy. She's not a uh She's not an accessory, you know Right now all cars come with air conditioning and power windows. You you can't find a car that doesn't have that anymore There was a time when you would buy a like a stripped down version of a car And they'd be like, well, do you want air conditioning? Do you want power windows and powers like What are they used to say loaded? That was the word I got a car that's fully loaded now even like the most economical cars are 100 loaded And that was considered a good car when it comes to wives and women we want a wife that is loaded We want the power windows. We want the power brakes You know the navigation system and we Like we have a a good deal there And I think when I from the buying a car mode buying a car mindset in looking for a wife to What can a woman teach me how can she affect me make me a better man like for instance In my dating life honestly as I've dated women. There's some women. I just want to eat half a pizza and Drink a six pack of beer Other women have made me Want to go to the gym and work out. So what woman? Is better for me the one who inspires me to go work out some people would say well, you should have that inspiration on your own And uh, you shouldn't have that external locus of motivation That's just life So what I have learned to weed out is the women that make me not make me be complacent, but that Where I tend to be be more complacent I find that When I am loved properly or I should say respected by a woman properly. I work my ass off. I work 18 hours a day And I can love her better. It just you become interdependent on each other. She wants to be loved I want to be respected and I feel that the uh The holiness factor versus the happiness factor the minute that I made that shift that mindset shift Everything changed So what I'm looking for now is a woman who will contribute to me being a better man And what I'm attracting now is not women like when I was a young man I was attracting women whose mindset was what can you do for me? Right now, especially now that I've announced that I want to be married And I'm throwing themselves at me literally and they want to cook me dinner It's like wait a minute, you know, what's going on here. They they are literally telling me they can't wait to serve me You know, if if we were married I when you come home from work, I would rub your shoulders and I'm like What planet am I on? I'm not used to this But what happened the only thing that's different is my mindset I'm not getting married to be happy I'm getting married to be fulfilled to be holy and at the end of my life I want god to say well done Well done Not oh wow, you you've got a whole bunch of cars and a big house and A lot of money in the bank good for you It doesn't work that way All that stuff turns to dust at the end of the day. It's like meaningless after you die Other than people you give it to maybe but even then it's just dust dust dust dust I did want to bring up something Michael brought up earlier that I thought was interesting and he talked about how women Are more difficult to fix versus men who are easier to fix And I agree with that and I think that's one of the reasons that currently we see a manisphere that's evolved for over 20 years now Men improving themselves fixing themselves You know resolving trauma fatherlessness Learning better social skills and these things about relationship skills health and fitness losing weight getting stronger a lot There's a lot of elements to it It's a very masculine thing and men are prone And better adapted. I agree to improve fixing themselves if they're damaged or whatever And women are not and I wanted to bring that up because when people see make women great again like the media They the normies didn't understand this at all in the media But make women great again is not really meant to fix adult women It can maybe if they really want to get better. I don't think it's impossible I just think it's unlikely The real purpose of this conference and why I want you guys speak in there We're all going to speak there in about 12 days an hour or whatever it is really soon As I want to create videos and content positive media for young women that have not ruined their lives yet That are not 34 year old cat ladies You know zooming in fast on geriatric pregnancies in the end of their fertility the end of their life essentially so As a young woman anyways young fertile woman So I really want to make a change for young You know zoomer women and younger even that are going to be 18 and 19 and 20 soon a couple years And this content needs to be available for them because right now they have nothing the churches of you know Fall into feminism and all this stuff and this garbage Culture is even wider cultures even worse. You got you know wap. You got cardi B. Craft. You have Unlimited toxic feminist Dogma, you know of every color and every sort it's it's rampant It's the real plague. It's the real pandemic And we need to push back with something positive that every woman can embrace Of any faith and of every rate of any any race and whatever creed and whatever I don't care if she's born in florida or alaska, you know, whatever I want her to to have good content and make good choices to the best of her ability Hopefully she has a family structure to you know facilitate that but even if not You know, we can't expect women to do better if they're just if they have no method of doing better What are they going to do? Look, you know, there's nothing there's nothing they've nowhere to turn right now nothing Maybe they have a good pastor or a good church to get to maybe but that's even that's unusual That's rare. So they have nothing they've nothing but cardi B to learn how to be a woman from or michelle obama or some garbage So anyway, it's been a really fantastic show fabulous show. I had a lot of fun with this is really great Um, really appreciate both you coming on today for the red pill and religion Episode 119 of the red man group Uh final words where everybody can find you guys and learn more from you You can find me on uh, twitter is where I'm most active The handle is this is foster th is is foster fos t e r um, we I do a podcast when I feel like it so Every every once in a while that's it's good to be a man and you can go it's good to be a man.com Where I me and a partner non-tenant We we're writing stuff in the middle of writing a book right now on this topic Which will be published by cannon press release next year Ken impress is a great place for christians to find good stuff on sexuality Uh, so highly recommend checking them out. So twitter, uh, that's where I'm at all right Sweet sweet george Yeah, I can be found on youtube george bruno and I have a lifestyle channel that There's something there for everybody. It's provocative. It's educational. It's challenging And also on twitter as well All right Thanks boys. We'll uh talk soon I'll see both of you soon in florida at 21 summit and the 21 convention and the 21 convention page recognition And the 22 convention. It's gonna be a great time Everybody else. Thanks for tuning in today live to the show And if you're watching this later or even now smash the like button Leave a comment and share it on twitter and all that. We appreciate it. Help the show grow Adios, and I'll see you maybe next saturday. Otherwise, I'll see you soon after that peace