 You're putting me on the spot here. You're putting me on the spot. How's it feel to be grilled on the other end of it, Lisa? I know, I know. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to a very special episode of Fun Rose Food. Today, we are in West Side LA in a little town called Santa Monica. I am super excited because today we are going to be sitting down with world-renowned journalists. TV show hosts. All-American hero. And teller of untold stories. Lisa Ling. Lisa Ling. How you guys doing? Doing good. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. I'm such a fan of yours. And it makes me so proud to see you all out there. I guess what are you most excited to eat? What John does here at Kato is he does generally like a prefix. So every time you come here, there's something a little bit different. I heard a rumor that he's making new romaine, which is very, very exciting. First off, we could establish, I guess, what Asian you are. So I am half Chinese and half Taiwanese. And it's funny when you ask me what kind of Asian I am. Because for much of my young life, I was kind of in denial about being Asian, period, because I grew up in a community outside of Sacramento, California, that was not diverse at all. And I hated being Asian because I looked different. I was teased pretty relentlessly. Like what would they say? Like, I mean, is it stereotypical stuff or is it? I had a lot of friends, and I was a fairly popular kid. But not a day would go by when someone didn't come up to me and go, oh, Lisa Ling. Or like, Ling Ling, you forgot your bling bling. I mean, it's so permanently etched in my head. Weren't you raised in a restaurant family? My grandfather and grandmother, they emigrated here to the US. And they were very highly educated. He couldn't get a job in business. And so they opened one of the first Chinese restaurants in Carmichael, California, called Sun-R. And then went on to open the first Chinese restaurant in Folsom, California, called Hop-Sing Eat Shop. And I didn't even like having people come over, because our house, and I smelled like Chinese food all the time. I smelled like lo mein. No, I didn't, I did. Was it good, though? It was good. It was good to eat. But yeah, yeah, I mean, when you're the only Asian kid in your school and you reek fried rice, it's not cool. In our high school of about 2,000 kids, there were probably five Asian kids, two of whom had the same last name, mine. So there was a boy named Danny Huang, who was my sister's math tutor. I mean, he was really, really good at math. Danny Huang actually asked me to prom. And I said no, because I didn't want to be teased more. For being with the other Asian. For being with the other Asian. Like, how is that? Like, that, that, it still kills me to this day that that happened, because he was the nicest guy in the world. Danny Huang, Lisa Ling, feels bad. Totally is sorry for it. I was so conflicted about my identity. I didn't feel totally American, because I was teased so much. And I didn't know the first thing about being Asian, because there were no other Asians around. That obviously shaped who you are today. Absolutely, absolutely. Experiencing that kind of adversity actually drove me to want to do something important, you know, to kind of prove people wrong. You know, my parents didn't have a lot of money. They got divorced when I was really young. They worked all the time. And the TV was always on in my house, you know? I can consider the TV kind of like another babysitter for me. And I thought to myself, well, if I can somehow work on TV, maybe things can change. Maybe I could have a better life. But there was no one on television at the time that looked anything like me, except for Connie Chung. Ah, Connie. I started in TV when I was 16 years old. And I showed up at a mall, because there was an audition for this teen magazine show called Scratch. Like, worst name ever. I got hired as one of the four hosts of the show. But the executive producer of that show was a Chinese man. And it was imperative for him to have Asian representation on that show. So I will always be grateful to him for hiring me. But that was kind of my first foray into TV. Did he get, was he like, you're gonna be the next Connie Chung? Did he say ever say that? He never did. He was actually pretty hard on me. He sort of treated me like his daughter. He was more strict with me and pushed me. And at the time I was resentful of it, but now I really appreciate it. And then after I did Scratch, I got hired to work for this show that was seen in middle schools and high schools called Channel One News. Anderson Cooper, who everyone knows from CNN, was one of my colleagues. No, that was your guys' Disney club. It kinda was. It was. Like your hub, Britney and Christina King. I mean, we were in our early 20s being sent all over the world. And it was that show that really propelled me to want to tell stories and not just be on TV, but to try and communicate what I was experiencing in the world. And so I covered the Civil War in Afghanistan when I was 21 years old, covered drug wars throughout South America, covered stories about globalization and China and India, and like really incredible things that I would have never in my wildest dreams been able to experience. When you do this kind of work, you get immersed in people's lives. You're not just going and seeing like tourist destinations, there's nothing wrong with that, but to really kind of embed is something so fulfilling and eye-opening. All right, everybody, we have food coming in. By the way, this is John, who is a phenom, so talented, and he could be my child, because he's only 27 years old. So this is our version of Lurofan. It's like a pork belly gravy. It's like a Taiwanese dish. And where did you learn how to cook all this? This one, I saw my mom cook as a child. And my mom would never tell me how to make it, and I just kept watching her, so. I gotta break this egg open, too. Yeah, the egg, I was like, mm. So this is another thing off our lunch menu. This is our version of a chicken sandwich. The middle is kind of like a popcorn chicken-ish, and then it has a herb salad and some honey mayo. Mm, got a little spice on there. The sand on there, semming, jeez. That is seriously so good, it's hot. I love how the chicken was intact. It wasn't like patty-ized. It's like eating a flattened chicken thigh. It's weird, because from the previous generation in Asia, it was like so patriarchal. It seems like on the West now, that Asian women have all the cards, because they have a certain fluidity with other races that Asian men don't have. What do you think of that? Do you agree or disagree with my premise? All cultures don't value women as much as they should. Things are starting to change, but even in this era when women are, I think, more empowered than they ever have felt, there still are expectations. And some of these expectations women put on themselves to not only be able to feel compelled to provide, but also to maintain the family stuff going on. It's just kind of in our nature as women to want to take care of everything. And that doesn't just mean take care financially, but literally take care of everything else. And I think that that has been the case for generations. For your vision for women, is it like them just adopting traits that typically are deemed outside of that, like what is accepted for them? Or you're like, no, it's like an expanse. It's not that simple to say. I mean, I just think women should feel comfortable being women, but at the same time, not feel inhibited. It's in business I've found. I recently met a woman who is in charge of a $90 billion pension fund in the state of Oregon. I mean, this is huge. She's this brilliant, beautiful African-American woman. And she's been in the job now for a couple of years. And I said to her, did you seek this job out? Or did someone come to you and suggest you for the job? And she said, someone suggested me for the job. And I said, would you have sought this out? Because she said that the position became available a couple of years ago. And she said, I don't know if I would have gone out for it myself. Because there's something about, I think, what we've been indoctrinated as women to believing that there are certain things that we are not able to do, or that the finance world is a man's world. And that has an impact on our psyche. The ability to dream, right? Kind of, yeah. They're like your spectrum of what you believe is possible. It limits us. You're taught not to go into engineering or finance. And I also think recognizing that there's a ceiling is sometimes disempowering because you sometimes don't even think that you can penetrate it. And so that desire to even do it seems impossible. And that's something that I would like to see changed. I mean, I know for myself. I've always just been so grateful for any opportunity that I've ever had. In fact, I have male agents who tell me, Lisa, don't talk about money with them. Let us do that. Because we know that you'll just do it for free because you love doing it so much. So, and I acquiesce that to them because for me, it's true. I never thought I'd have these opportunities. And I am so passionate about what I do that I can't even negotiate for myself. That's something that also needs to change. Like I need to feel like I deserve what I've gotten and what I've been able to achieve. So this is our version of a Taiwanese beef noodle soup. We use wagyu cocktail for it. We use like a thicker noodle and we do like a bone broth that's like six, seven, eight hours. We have to just stop the camera. We were in a very deep conversation here, but let's talk about the soup. You know what you can even, like you can taste it without even trying? You see how red this is? Let's just marvel at the soup real quick. Really trying to take in that broth and it's crazy because I haven't really, David, of all the beef noodle soups we have, I never had one that was more like oxtail-based. No, you're right, you're right. This is like very, it's packed with flavor. Super like thick from the oxtail, all the tendon was melted, it's kind of gelatinous. I'm so happy right now. But you know what's surreal about this moment is as a kid growing up in Carmichael, like I would have never thought that I would be, you know, interviewed by two incredibly intelligent, handsome Asian men talking about Asian culture and promoting it. Like it's a really, it's a really, it's a really cool completion of the circle. You know, everybody's seen your work, but what you're known for is telling the untold story. And I feel like actually tell a lot of stories of like people who are like within the system that they inhabit low level. Yeah, people who do not have the upper hand marginalized, why is that important? Or like what motivated you to do that? Because not everybody wants to do that, right? Yeah, I guess for me it started with working at channel one and traveling into the world and interacting with people whose lives were so different from mine. Like it was sort of like I realized what my calling was as strange and cliche as that sounded, as that sounds. And so after doing channel one and traveling the world for seven years, I got a job as one of the co-hosts of The View. And it's funny when they let me know that I got the job at The View, I was in a refugee camp in Kosovo. Oh wow. And they called me and said, oh, you were the one chosen as the young co-host on The View. And I'm looking around like, whoa. It was such a surreal experience because I'm sort of thrust onto this national show. Invited every party in New York. I'm like. It's kind of the glamorous side of things. A couple of years into it, September 11th happened. And I said something on the air. Like, you know, this is the most horrific thing that could have ever happened. But I wonder if we should ask ourselves who might have wanted to perpetrate this kind of attack and why. We were inundated with email and letters saying, yeah, we should be asking those questions. But a lot of emails said things like, go back to China. You don't know what you're talking about. So after that incident happened at The View, not long after I decided to leave because my heart was in the field. And as I had a great time on The View, what I realized, like, I'm not interested in interviewing celebrities about their, like, movies. What, is The View basic? What? Is The View basic? It's not that it's basic. I just, now, you know, I have the show on CNN called This Is Life, which is an exploration of American subcultures. And before that, I had a show on Oprah's network called Our America. And to have felt so conflicted about my identity, my whole, like, teenage life. And now to be hosting and executive producing these shows that are about the, like, the American experience at its most fundamental level is just, it's incredible. It's so incredible, and I'm so proud to be able to do it. But it's still so surreal. Being Asian and making it in media, period, is hard. But I guess, did it benefit your particular type of journalism to be Asian? Because Asians are not really part of the, Western narrative. The Western narrative, the long lasting black and white fight that's going on. So it's like, when you're going in and you meet with a lot of different minorities, that they don't have necessarily any feelings towards you. You're a neutral, like, agent that's just like, hey, I'm here to ask questions and figure stuff out. I do think that if I were a white man, I might not get the same kind of reaction. Or people may not be as willing to divulge as much to me. Again, I hadn't thought about that, but perhaps that's why. If you're a blonde woman, I definitely think it's harder for certain people to open up to them and obviously to get into places and be more low-key. But as an Asian, it's a negative thing to be low-key and sometimes invisible, but in your certain job, in a way, it's somewhat beneficial. Well, and I'm actually really, really low-key. When I'm in the field, I barely wear any makeup. I don't know, people say, and I don't know if this is true, that I'm exactly the same in person that I am on television. And that is a huge compliment to me because I really try hard not to put any artifice on. Like, that's something that's really important. I feel like I'm on the view right now. This is... Let's face it, our culture is not a communicative one. We don't talk about feelings a lot and I think for me, getting introduced to this kind of work early on and really loving to feel has propelled me to continue doing this kind of work. I think most of us, you know, it's hard to even remember what we did yesterday or the day before that. Like, our lives can start to get really rote. And at a certain point, I said to myself, like, I would like to try and remember every day by doing things that are different, by being out of your comfort zone, sometimes even feeling uncomfortable. Like, I feel so alive and that's exciting for me. How do you, where you're at, because we all started this like Asian core and you've like diverged so much from like, you're like such an outlier kind of amongst the Asian American population. When you go back and you view where the Asian American population is at now, not you, are you kind of like, dang, y'all ain't even alive? Or like, no, no, no, I'm not saying that. But you know what, I mean, like, but that's how I would feel looking at like, people who are just living that fortune 100, fortune 500 accounting, sheltered lifestyle. But I do think things are changing. I mean, you know, I don't know if your parents were excited about you pursuing media, but you are, right? I do think that it's changing. And I do think that our, your generation is really kind of at the forefront of that. I definitely have thought like, there's so much more to life than what we think, you know, because I think that there's a reason why the stereotype exists of like, you know, Asians are seeing, you know, materialistic and stuff is really important to Asians, right? And I, to me, I just, I feel like there is so much more to experience and emotionally too. Like I think that there's so much, so far to go in, in trying to get connected to our emotions. Like my husband, again, he's Korean. His parents never even told him they loved him until he was in his 40s. I mean, that's, what kind of impact could that have on a person? My hope for Asians is to really get more, I think connected spiritually and emotionally. And I don't even mean like dogmatic religion. They, cause they do say Asians even have trouble emoting literally in their voice. Well, yeah, because I had a lot of, had a lot of stuff going on in my head. Again, I told you my parents were divorced when I was young and I, and I had a hard time having relationships and feeling vulnerable with people. And so I, you know, at a certain point, like I had a therapist on the east coast and the west coast, cause I was traveling back and forth when I was doing the view. And I really wanted to get in touch with who I was at the core. And that's one of the reasons why I took my mom back to Taiwan because one of the first things that happens in therapy is they start asking you about your relationship with your mom and what your mom's background was like. And I didn't know. Like I had no idea what my mom went through when she was my age. And that was hugely transformative for me because when I took her back to Taiwan, I could see where she grew up. I could hear from her about the things she dealt with. It changed me and it, I think it made me want to, want other people to be able to have those like cathartic kinds of feelings. Like all Asians should have therapy. Okay, I totally know about it. You know, I really do. Wow. Wow. Yes, yes. Listen, therapy is so much more valuable than an Hermaz bag any day of the week. Seriously, because what's it all for, right? This is my therapy. This is gonna be our version of Dan Danuels. It's our vegetarian version. The same kind of chili oil, sesame, black vinegar. Thank you. I have had this and it's delicious. It seems like the guys from the East have a way harder time getting that best of both worlds mix than women from the East generally do coming too. It's an Asian masculinity talk. It's an Asian American male masculinity question where it's like the dudes are feeling like they couldn't be like Alisa Lee. They're like, oh, as an Asian dude that wouldn't be possible for me. Maybe an Asian female, the Western world likes Asian female, but they don't like Asian men in a social way. I definitely do think that Asian men have really gotten the short end of the stick for sure. Absolutely. And I have a lot of sympathy for Asian men. And in this country, like if you really think about, you know, the fact that like of all cultures, it was, you know, over 100,000 Japanese Americans who were interned, like that some of the biggest wars that our country has fought, you know, Vietnam, Korea. And yeah, yeah, people who look like us. And so I do think that there is this sort of, this ingrained fear of Asian men in this country. It's not overt, but it's something that's just been kind of ingrained in our culture. And I think that's really, I think that's a hard thing to overcome for sure. I mean, and I wish I knew the answer to that. As far as Asian men being attractive, it's funny because for me, like the first time I ever, you know, dated an Asian guy or was like, intimate with an Asian guy, I was like, skin, like, wow, I like, I, like, to me, like I only attracted to Asian men, but yeah, it's kind of, you know. Allie Wallin said dolphin. That's a good. Smart too. Maybe that's what she was thinking. Smart. The one thing that I'm saying, we're like in languages. I just made a dolphin noise. Yeah, and it wasn't very good, but I was like, what is that noise? She's been around in the trenches all that. That's true. Mom, I didn't mean to offend. The one thing that I would like to see is again, like Asian men getting more connected with their emotions, you know, cause I think that that, I don't want to generalize, but having dated a few Asian men, I think that their parents not being communicative with them about affection and emotions has had an impact on Asian men, on a lot of Asian men. I mean, the fact that your parents, you guys are communicative, but they don't tell you they love you, I'm sure it has affected you somehow, you know? I know it's affected my husband. When Harvard said, admitted that Asians rank low on their personality test, were you shocked? And you were like, that is not true. Asians got just as much personality, or you were like, it's not personality, it's like culture, that it's just a difference in culture that they're not understanding. You're putting me on the spot here, you're putting me on the spot. How's it feel to be grilled on the other end of it, Lisa? I know, I know. I definitely think it's culture. It's like, I don't want to call it personality cause I, and I'm not saying Harvard's not a little bit stereotyped for sure they are, but like, we've come from a much different culture, so I'm not shocked that some of us act different. Yeah. Right? We're fun. We can be, no, I think we can be fun when let loose and given. Unlocked. Unlocked and given the space to do it. Well, I think it's why Karaoke is so popular throughout Asia. You know, it's like, you get some drinks in you and then you can just, you can, you can be out there, you know, I like. Asian rage, Asian party rage, they, they don't, Asian drinking to Asians is like the furry suits to the furries. No, drinking to Asians. It totally is, it totally is. Drinking to Asians around other Asians. Yeah, it has to be around other Asians. Locked in a concealed soundproof room. In an Asian island claim neighborhood. You want to see Asians crazy, see Asians in an Asian party. As America becomes more diverse, the way the demographics are shifting, combined with the, I guess, lower economics in the blue collar, white areas, where are we headed as America? Cause like Andrew, I'll tell you this, is very pessimistic. That's why he's running on a platform where we need to change it and do the UBI because like this whole thing is turning to the purge. You are getting f***ed. Well, I think that they're, it's undeniable that there is fear that is penetrating all aspects of society right now because the sort of the dominant race feels like, you know, their lives are, you know, their livelihoods in many ways are at risk. Yeah, or at stake. Yeah, yeah. And I just don't understand where that fear comes from. You know, I think it's natural for people who are similar to you to gravitate toward them because you have some shared experiences, but in no way should that be a threat to anyone else. If there's no reason why we can't coexist, you know, there's no reason to fear that. And it's sad and scary and disappointing that there is fear. Do you think if we fix the economics, the fear goes away, or are they just both mutually exclusive? Like you can't, like- No, I don't think so. Unfortunately, I think it's so easy to scapegoat people who are different from us. I mean, our economy is booming right now, you know, and yet the issue that droves so many people to the polls is immigration. Our economy is booming because of the diversity that exists. You know, there's so much prosperity in this country right now. So many people are employed, I think because there is enough for everyone and it's that diversity that is our strength that we should embrace. What are some things outside of being raised in a tough childhood that can make Asians have like more of a proactive attack mode mindset? Because I think that me and Andrew have it because we're kind of raising a similar situation to you, like a Midwestern-esque town near a metropolitan West Coast core. Daring to be a man. Your personality is so dictated by your circumstances. And like, let's say for example, so many kids in SoCal are growing up in these gigantic Asian-owned claves where like they're pretty much like not even thinking about it until they hit college or maybe they're corporations. I mean, I think the first thing that you have to do is get away from the screen. Because I think that what's happening is it's become even easier to become like isolated and insulated because you're just in front of the screen like you're playing video games all day. Get out there and be out there and just push yourself to get out of your comfort zone. You know, it's hard and sometimes it's scary and sometimes you're gonna get rejected, but so you get rejected so what? Does it still bother you to get out of your comfort zone or you're like at this point, my comfort zone is so big or I've developed a muscle to combat that feeling? I love being out of my comfort zone because I feel so alive. Like, you know, when you were out of your comfort zone, your senses are heightened. You're, you know, like you are really observing things. And that's when you, that's when I feel like most alive and I don't think we're doing that enough. And now, you know, now that we're behind our devices, we do it even less. No, you're right. I mean, most kids- Like do something that's different and put yourself out there more. You know, I think that fear of rejection is the biggest inhibitor to like living the best life that you can. If you're so afraid of rejection, you're never going to overcome, you know, like where you are. So I feel like the major takeaway, I guess, and you know, we'll wrap this up, is that like one of your big things was like, you just got to communicate. Communicate, like figure out ways to feel, like feel people, feel things. Like, you know, like feel, touch people, you know? Like it's so, the first time my husband hugged me, he goes like this, like he pat me on the back. I was like, are you just patting me? You said communicate, bring the warmth, get out of your comfort zone, get off the screen. We have a lot of takeaways here. Like go do karaoke without alcohol. Whoa! I know. What have you learned about life or happiness? You've seen the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. The reason why I love what I do so much is because I can get connected to people in a way that's really visceral, that allows me to feel. Like we all want that kind of connection. Like everybody craves human connection and affection and wants to even, even Chinese people. Human beings like just crave that desire to feel important and just be part of something, you know? And I just think that as a culture, we are not in touch with our emotions as much as I think we could be. And that that is so much more important than any like BMW, you know? It's just, it's so much more important than stuff. All right, everybody, thank you so much for watching that video with Lisa Ling. Thank you so much. It was an honor to sit down with you. We had a very, very long talk. And I appreciate you giving us so much of your time. And thank you for opening up and just having a very candid conversation about a number of topics. We could go down the list of- I guess I'm glad to know that I agree with you on a lot of your opinions, which makes me feel better about myself. Well, what I will say is it's been pleasure to hang out with both of you. We definitely had a kind of conversation unlike one that I think I've ever had, but it was really good and important. And I hope that people will watch this and have some takeaway because I think we talked about some things that I think are sort of fundamental to Asian culture. And I think that we have some suggestions on how to make things feel a little different, but in a positive way. Feel more. Feel more. Literally feel more. All right. All right, you guys, thank you so much for watching that very, very special episode of Fun Rose Food with superstar journalist, Lisa Ling. We're here at Kato on the West Side, Santa Monica. And until next time, we're out. Peace! What's going on, everybody? Thank you so much for watching that video. Basically, we are gonna be releasing a lot more content that we always wanted to give you guys. We never really had a good way of doing it and that's why we wanna tell you guys that we are starting YouTube memberships. So basically, if you subscribe to the membership channel, you are gonna get tons of exclusive content. You're gonna get exclusive photos, exclusive videos. We're gonna be doing NBA talks, comments on comments. You're gonna be getting merch discounts. Basically, you can just click the join button right there. It is only 4.99 per month and it's gonna go all on our community tab right here. So it's exclusive content that you're only gonna see if you're a member, but I think you might really like it. Yeah, we're gonna be delving deep into a lot of topics and we got some thoughts, man. Yeah. Deep thoughts. So it's starting on January 30th, so go ahead, please sign up today and check it out. All right, everybody. Thanks for watching that video. Until next time, we out. Peace. Did you see Crazy Bitch Asians? I did. What do you think that means? Cause I talked to some people that think it means a lot. Some people think it's just a rom-com. It doesn't mean anything. Already is giving so many more opportunities to Asians. I mean, it was a really fun movie, irrespective of the fact that it had an all Asian cast and I think that it was the biggest rom-com. Yeah, I mean. Top five of all time. Yeah, I mean, numbers definitely matter and it was a beautiful, emotional and fun movie and I think that it already has had a massive impact and will continue to do so.