 Good morning Craig. Hello there. Hey. How are you kind of people? Good. Good. Greetings, greetings. John, I have to reply to your email. I shall do so today, but thank you. That's a. Okay. Yeah. Awesome thing. All right. Doug, how are things in your neck of the woods? Well, you know, we've had incredible weather this last week because we're at the coast. It's been wonderfully in the low 70s. People are going to restaurants and poking around, but the people here are have the kind of affluence that lets them do that. So this neck of the woods is pretty good. Where the neck connects up with the rest of the body, animal, political. Yeah, story. Exactly. Now I've been hearing a little bit of worry about the coming fire season. Is that like in the air at all or is everybody calm right now? Definitely. Everybody is making preparations. Doug, what counts, what counts as good preparations? Making sure that you that your car has full is full of gas that you've got some food in the car that you've taken care of what your animals are going to do. And talking to neighbors. Yeah. I went and talked to the fire chief and said, what do you think? He said, don't worry, we'll put it out. Oh, really? Wow. Okay, that's amazing. Fire chief. You know, the thing is, it every 80 years or so it burns through here anyway, the whole state burns. And it's just our short memories that don't remember such things. Well, no, it's actually different than that. That's that's the fire ecology of California, but give now the urban penetration and forest management. There's a lot more. It's a lot more, a lot more frequency and impact. Yeah. We're in a very good position because we're actually on the river. So the worst case scenario is we go and get our kayaks and go down to the ocean. Not bad. Yeah. So here in Berkeley, we don't, we're in a flat surface. We don't feel a direct fire with the air quality issues. And so our main move is investing probably in airplanes. Airplane fires. That seems to be all we can do. Yeah. I kill your voice is sort of muffled somehow. I don't know why, but I'm having trouble hearing you, even though you're standing, you're sitting right over your laptop. Yeah. And I don't think you have any earbuds or anything in. So that's kind of struggling to hear you. Better now. Little bit. Here's that better now. Yes, that is better. Okay, thanks. Actually, that's substantially better right now. Stacey, yes. Maybe too much better. Okay. Okay. And then when I click on where the chat is, and I go to the sign in, it says the page not found any suggestions what I could do. Is anybody else having trouble with that link. The one I just put in the chat. Correct. Because I pulled that link straight out of my matter most app, which is running on my desktop and I think that's the right link to the matter most but also zoom, zoom chat might do some funny things. Yeah. I think that's a little here. Oh, it came up now. Now it just came up when I click back to it. Cool. Okay. Thank you. Oh, thank you, Stacey. Can you, can you post it again because I just logged in and it's you, you bet. Let me go back to the chat and paste it one more time. Right there. That's a mean. Perfect. I have another tech question that somebody could help me. How do I, how do I split the screen so I could see all of you on zoom and see that chat. Are you on windows or on a Mac windows. I don't know. Anybody on, anybody on windows. So you can. And at the bottom there, Stacey, just click the chat button. I can, I can get, no, I can get that, but then it's one or the other I can either see the conversation or the call. I can't see both. So if you, if you drag your, the title bar of your zoom call, unless it's full screen, the problem is you have to make it not full screen. I escaped to get out of full screen. Yeah. And then we're out of full screen. Okay. I'm going to mirror you. Yeah. Now you can, now you should be able to slide the window that has the zoom on it. I understand what you're saying. I can see the chat and I can see the call. Once I click the link in the chat, it just takes me to full screen on the. It's okay. It's okay. I don't want to take up that much time. So you can also escape full screen on that on the matter most. I've got it on what you're talking about exactly. I didn't like, I did the exact same thing. It went to full screen matter most, but then I escaped full screen shrink it down. Bring back the zoom, line them up next to each other. So if you were on Mac, I did, and I'm assuming we have a similar trick, but I discovered that if you mouse, you know how windows have like a full screen, hide it, close window, little buttons on the upper left. Yeah. So I discovered that on Mac, if you hover, if you hover over that, it gives you more options, one of which is tile this to the right. So what I do when we get in this call is I go to my matter most app. I tile it to the right and then I pick zoom as the thing to show on the left. And so right this minute I have basically all of our windows are on the left. As you want them, Stacey, and the chat from matter most has replaced basically the zoom chat. Now how to do that on how to achieve that on windows is a mystery to me, but this works really well for me on the Mac. So I'll play around. And I just go off camera. And I think Bentley is doing a screen chair right now to show you. Yeah. Unfortunately zoom screws up the screen chair. So I can, but in windows when you can move your window around, if you just drag it all the way to the side and let go, it'll stock it. Oh, and then it'll give you an option on what the other window you want to be to come up. And then you could, you could do the, which I have to show my other thing, but. So that's how you do it. The standard technique for windows is to the window that you're focused on. Press down your win key and press arrow left. For those that want to memorize keys. Keysticks. Yeah. If you're on the, if you're on the zoom screen, hold down the win key, which is between control and alt and press arrow left. That window will then occupy half the screen. Yeah. And you should get tiles for all the other screens and you select the other one that you want to occupy the right-hand side of your screen. So these are two ways of doing the same things. Stacy is either one working for you. I'm going to, I'm going to focus on as you guys are talking, I'm going to work on it. Thank you. The other option is, is to right click your star bar at the bottom and there's an option for show side by side, but that's only if you have only two things. The other option is to draw everybody's face on little post-its and stick them on your screen so that they represent where the people normally would be. Okay. Thank you all. That's probably. I'll let you know how I do. Cool. Cool. Gil, do you want to check in first? Then we'll start with you since you have to head out. And you don't have to head out right away. But no, let me go third because I'm getting breakfast put together and need to sit down. So. Okay. Let's go. Let's go a different way then. Let me go with Klaus. Michael Bentley. That was, that wasn't ready. Okay. Sorry about that. Yeah. Yeah. The, I mean, this has been a crazy week. We had. Discussions around. What is happening in Israel, obviously. Having, having such a profound impact on, on so many people really. And, and as you know, my, my, my daughter, my young man from. Really got into this posting of. Some really viral and. Messaging. And I posted. A conversation by. You will have a re. And a neuroscientist, a famous neuroscientist from, from Israel who. in a discussion on the difficulty we have to maintain a realistic perspective on the events around us because of so much manipulation and so much misunderstanding. But what it boils down to both of them were saying but Ubal Havari was really driving home is that we don't really have any space left for that kind of conflict because the Middle East for example is flat running out of water. There are already climate refugees around the area. And there are projections that the Middle East will basically become uninhabitable in the entire region. We're looking at like Syria, Iraq, Yemen and so on. And so it's just an expression of the difficulty we are having to elevate climate change and environmental destruction that we are causing to a point where it focuses our attention and we haven't reached that point yet because every conflict we have right now we are destroying the very infrastructure that we need to restore the very world we live in. We need infrastructure to build the regeneration of the land. And that is really echoing around a number of conversations which are really intensifying. I see that I've been asked to develop a webinar on biofuels by business climate leaders and as I'm diving into the topic of biofuels you realized we're flat running out of water in the United States. Now you have California trying up. Let's go to the Mississippi with a delta and relocate some of that agriculture into that region where you realize for the last two years they were wiped out to the brisk flooding. You go further north and you see the Orgalala aquifer being pumped dry to create, to raise corn for biofuel. So there is so much happening in the sphere of our environment that the last thing we can afford is climate change. And I mean so it's conflict and the point that was that Ibrahim was also driving home is that we cannot bring people to the point of desperation. And if you have all these tribal conflicts it doesn't matter if it's Israeli Palestinians or the Turkish Mr. Kurds or Myanmar with the Ohingya or China it doesn't matter. There's these tribal conflicts happening all around the world and they are completely derailing our response to the climate change. And what Yvonne Harari was really emphasizing is the moment you drive people into desperation where they are facing an existential challenge they do desperate things. Desperate people do desperate things. And so I think that is that to bring that into consciousness and into the awareness of people you know that we really have very little time left and this year is going to be incredibly crazy important because once we are passing certain trigger points and we're moving into a downward spiral for let's say food supply for example which is like a very real and present challenge then we are then then we may be you know it may be too late to fix anything and so my it's just it's just a very burdensome thing to look at and to deal with. Yeah so anyway that was my morning. Well and just just before you said the word desperation I was realizing that I'm tracking the same crisis you're tracking and I read the article you posted about agriculture maybe moving to the Delta or wherever because California is drying up and all of that and I'm way too aware of all our aquifers being dried up and all that and I realized that I'm busy avoiding despair myself and I'm like skirting the edges of this shit's really bad and there's there's like crisis upon crisis on top of like refugee crises that are sort of precipitated by all these crises and in the middle of all this we're in political lock-up in so many different ways and they're trying to get BB out of power now in Israel and I have a thought from two years ago that says you know is BB finally out because two years ago it looked like his reign was over in Israel and it wasn't he stayed in power so right now I'm like just kind of watching to see what happens and OGM exists in part because our inability to speak across these divides has us in lock-up everywhere rather than acting in concert or at least in jazz to solve these things. Yeah and the tragedy really is that if we could get our act together there is so much positive about this right because there is so much we could be doing to to provide a vision and to provide the kind of guidance particularly in the agriculture sector which is now what we're working on but to help people help themselves and create the story right that people need to have in their minds in order to become hopeful and positive and engaged and we are so close to getting to this point but you know there's just the next scrimmage because somebody wants to stay in power starts another war somewhere. Yeah totally agree thank you Gil. Yeah um yeah BB may be getting out of power but what's coming in may not be a whole lot better. I'm class thanks for the share I'm I just came across a quote from the Tasmanian author Richard Flanagan yesterday he's actually doing a book reading tonight he said despair is always rational but hope is human and so you know it really struck me there's lots of logic for despair plus as you said there's you know there's enormous amounts of creative activity going on all over the planet and it's not highly visible in history but there's thrilling innovation and momentum and coherence among very you know I mean the number of these kinds of conversations that are happening on zoom every day is just stunning to me that can barely keep up I'm struck listening to you by a number of things one is desperation and you know as the climate shit hits the fan and more and more people realize and at whatever level their lives are disordered there's there's a psychological and social disruption that we can barely anticipate that's on the web I've long thought that what we've described as as economic depressions are actually psychological phenomena and there's a there's a version of that on steroids possibly headed toward us I'm struck by the the conjunction of the traditional blindness of human beings to exponential change we just don't know how to see that on our landscape our blindness to living systems the you know the the 20th century phenomenon of organized propaganda both political and commercial now the phenomenon of active organized disinformation campaigns on a global scale there was a posting last earlier this week that they traced most of the vaccine disinformation to 12 actors not stealth rushing people actually visible people in the world of anti-vaccine super you know 12 people have generated that flurry and then on top of that we've got the phenomenal political polarization that Jerry just alluded to you know I think of it as a shredded social fabric and people who can't speak to each other and the perhaps slowly accelerating slow motion coup in the United States I'm pretty concerned you know in bits of between you know between the threat of climate emergency and the threat of fascism it's a scary time so I wonder Klaus did Harari and Bialik have anything positive or prescriptive to suggest in their talk or was it all diagnosis of doom you know Harari's major theme is that survival is optional yeah you know and and so it's a choice it's our choice it's our decision and I mean as you dig deeper into into the trends that that that you can observe here that option is that window of opportunities closing I mean it really is because once you have millions of people moving because their food supply is gone it will become incredibly more difficult to I get that that's still diagnostic did the doctor offer any prescription if survival was optional what are the steps or moves or directions or considerations he would suggest taking to improve on the survival or is that not where he plays well the last 10 minutes of the conversation is would really respond to to your question and particularly they were saying we have to in Israel now we have to look at issues of inequity access to vaccines for example access to medical care but basically what I would I call desperation basically mitigate the desperation of people and and and integrate them into a society that is livable John did you want to jump in yeah I can jump in and this can be my intro also because I'm going to have to leave it about the left or nine so first to not not to add too much to the negative but there was a pretty toxic conversation going on on clubhouse last night it was it was a bunch of anti-wokes people you know talking about how free conversation and freedom of speech etc being shut down people being kicked out of positions there's a bunch of academics I mean I you know I completely understand their their uh discomfort with what's happening and I I agree with the discomfort but I'm very upset by what happens when they start that conversation uh it it picked up you know that people started making analogies to anti-semitism some of the strongest uh objectors uh to the woke happen to be Jewish you know so then you start you start to see this unfortunate coming together of difficulty uh in the conversation and again it's it was a predominantly conservative conversation although a couple of very visibly whatever you want to call them liberal whatever uh folks very very pro-science folks were um saying you know hey we can't do science you know the physics is one of the few remaining places where you you can't do this kind of um anti-science argument but they were they were afraid it was going to lose out and that that even natural science research would be subjected to um some kind of norms subjective norms uh is basically what they're talking about so that's the negative what's the positive um I don't herari I missed the latest conversation earlier in his his work he's talked a lot about uh viable myths and that we need a viable myth you know something that's okay not exactly true certainly not provable but true enough it kind of covers it creates an accessible uh philosophy of interaction uh an explanation that works for a lot of people and keeps them from killing each other um so that's you know a direction to think about another direction to think about is um post postmodern uh you know what what you know we'd like to have is is there sort of like a a minimal something that overlaps what we now call civility but doesn't use that word civility it overlaps what we might call uh minimum right to life liberty in the pursuit of not being killed you know it's it's kind of like you know I'm imagining a kind of a rights package that that even people who don't like other people intensely agree oh that's that's a reasonable solution you know I'm willing to grant everybody this minimum rights package and then we'll proceed from there to do the finer details about you know whether you who gets this job or who gets to move up and down in the hierarchy and part of that is a floor under which you don't let people sink uh you know and that's you know healthcare maybe maybe basic income I don't know some there's some we need to get more creative down there about defining the floor and then and then just do some really positive work on appreciative differences you know like we were able to fix this problem because this person who you would never imagine you know had this idea and we just need to multiply those things and use the social media multiplier techniques to keep reminding people that it is in fact the diverse I mean the investors know this the investors know women on the board company does better you know the etc etc so we we need to just multiply those situations but also I think there's there's real serious philosophical work that needs to be done to come up with a post equality civility and that can be extended to people who you don't like a lot there aren't members of your tribe but that you're willing to live with because you get that there's benefits to you from doing it that way thanks John you're reminding me of a video I posted into our Matamos I think in town hall about a woman named Max Libarol who is a Métis and a scientist and is has focused recently on plastics you know micro plastics in the oceans and stuff like that but the video was a really nice bridge between what's troubling communities and regular humans how science can work with them to solve problems making taking multiple different perspectives on the science being like seeking out diversity there were a whole bunch of other threads in in in the video that seemed really healthy for me toward the kind of things that you're you're talking about because because sometimes when you try to take when we try to focus on just discourse and just bridging the divide that doesn't sort of work so well we need to get together and do something else that's fruitful that addresses some of our concerns and then we figure out oh okay this this actually sort of works together maybe so anyway that was inspiring to me right can that go in matter most uh yes i'll i'll bring it back uh and and post it to the to the matter most chat right here let's go michael bentley stacey hi all um good to see you i'm i'm uh in berkeley still and uh um enjoying conversations that are a little different once that i have on the east coast um and um i was talking to some folks last night rashing around idea that i just want to throw out here about um about harnessing some of the concepts behind the nft um craze in the art area particularly i'm getting a message by the way that my my connection is unstable can you guys hear me okay you're breaking up a bit on us but go ahead okay we're hearing you okay or i would have interrupted more okay um so um the notion that i'm sure most of you have heard um in the art nft market of um 10 of the appreciation of an asset in a subsequent sale returning to the creator of that art um is an interesting concept whether it used nfts or not to um attached to other areas of inequality both over time and in space um and um I was imagining the idea of the real estate market um both cushioning the effects and de-incentivizing gentrification um by benefiting the early um owners and people who live in an area um because even if they were even if prices rose and they were forced out they would continue to derive benefit from the fact that they'd been there um and this could also work along supply chains from raw materials to finish products um you know crops that were grown um materials that were mined um if if a portion of the upsell or the you know appreciation along the supply chain return to benefit creators and just reduced inequality that way and I just thought that's a concept I'd like to throw out in in ogm world see if anybody's heard about any anything like this and uh and or just let people cogitate on it and see if uh it leads anywhere thanks michael and I just posted to the matter most shot I did the liberal link but then also as you started talking there was a nice article about the people uh nft sale and so forth and and the article was pretty deep and it quoted another artist named sarah ludi who not only um there's there seems to among artists doing nfts which is suddenly like a big thing uh because like hey free money let's try that um there's this assumption that 10% goes back to the artist but what she did was she did a different she negotiated other kinds of terms so if you start thinking of these as smart contracts and you start playing with that idea I think it's really rich in the way you just describe my goal and I don't think enough people are working on that and I'm afraid I'm afraid I'm weird to say I'm afraid that the nft thing is going to vanish before we figure that part out and then there's this whole other thread about how dangerous nfts and blockchain are to the world because of the energy they consume we can sort of set that aside a little bit too and then I also want to add in something that Vincent has been bringing in front of us which maybe Pete can explain because I can't which is the token curated token wait what's it called pete uh token curated registries I think yes yes which is a way of using nfts to reward people for good curation I think is a way too short way of explaining it but but there's a lot of interesting layers here that we're not really exploring go ahead Pete um thanks thanks for bringing up Michael and let me differentiate nfts from smart contracts so nfts are kind of a I'm going to say something opinionated uh nfts currently current nfts are a stupid way of using smart contracts um and it it looks to me like a cul-de-sac um so there is a lot of valence around the term nft um and there's there are certainly good things happening and there's certainly bad things happening really really bad things happening the energy is one problem and just the fact of taking um taking art digital art and making it so that it's a unique thing is not necessarily a good thing you know so there's a there there are art concerns and I don't know IP concerns and then actually just durability concerns the way nfts are set up right now they're just not durable um so let's it maybe it's okay to kind of discuss the you know discuss it with the idea of nfts but really the thing that we're looking at is smart contracts right yeah if I can um Pete I just want to interject I I apologize for introducing it with nfts because you're right I'm really talking about smart contracts yeah and nfts have brought that particular model of smart smart contract of the residual um thing so that that's really all I was talking about sorry yeah yeah I had just you know just for everybody um let's make sure we and I know you know this Michael and I know a bunch of us know this but I guess I have to say this every time we kind of to nfts nfts are really interesting there are a bunch of caution flags talk to somebody talk to enough people that tell you that there are really bad things about nfts before you start working with nfts but then smart contracts are super awesome and I certainly like the idea of um a provenance chain going back you know maybe to the original creator maybe actually to all the people uh intermeeting between you and the the the the originator and you know profit sharing back I think that's a wonderful thing um it reminds me and I think maybe I heard this from John Kelly um uh maybe it was from somebody else but one of the one of the smart contracts ideas I heard of a couple from a couple years ago was I'm in a rich country um America and I want to send money to some place that's not as rich in the world and when I send it um I want it to be my my observation is when I send it by western union or by a well-meaning organization or something like that what happens is the money ends up circling around to the the males um in the families instead of the women and then the males go to the the liquor store and they plunk down 20 bucks on liquor or whatever right um so somebody said I wish we could have money that I would send it over there and if you take it to the store and try to cash it in for liquor um the money says you know I don't want to be I I'm not exchanged for liquor you know you can exchange me for food you can exchange me for you know a sewing machine you just cannot exchange me for liquor or or cigarettes or whatever right so that's something that you could do with with smart currency that makes a lot of sense so policy could be baked into our bucks interesting anybody else with thoughts on this space not just sort of the nft part of it but what michael put on the table yeah just a quick one there vermont some years ago institute a real estate transfer tax that was tied to the length of time that you held the property so it was designed to be both anti speculative and also recognizing that value accumulation in real estate is not just as your property but because of what's happening in the community around you and there's a similar concept that's been floated I have no idea how far it's gotten to do a a a a time duration of holding space investment transfer tax it's basically attacks the velocity of trades which would have similar kind of logic and similar kind of effect in theory I don't know where that's gone but if you look at the velocity of trading over the last 20 or 30 years it's this ridiculous curve you know and people actually cite their data centers you know a block closer to the exchange to cut down on the nanoseconds of difference of data transfer time in order to get trading advantage so this would be counter to that michael it struck me as very similar related to what you're talking about and actually now that you mentioned the vermont case I'm just realizing there's a there's a model in you know new york city has the highest concentration of co-op structured buildings as opposed to condominiums and the some of the co-op flip tax rules are designed on a slope to penalize flipping you know speculative investment so that people pay a surcharge if they sell an apartment quickly um I just put a chat something in the chat that I'd forgotten I'd read about before which is henry george back in england a long time ago proposed a land value tax which basically is a way of making sure that land stays productive because you have to pay tax on your land and if you didn't put it to work if you're just kind of holding it for whatever it's very expensive to do so you lose you lose your assets but but I think george's miss this idea of like let's let's get rid of the most other taxes and let's just focus on land use which then takes us back into land ownership and a bunch of other really complicated but equally potentially leverageable topics which takes us back to the debt jubilee in the bible and eating mesopotamian societies where every 50 years land would revert to the original tribal holdings which was a firebreak against endless accumulation which is one of which we don't which we don't have these days we don't have those firebreaks I would argue it's one of the you know the accumulation without limit is one of the four or five structural flaws in capitalism which I'll be writing about and actually I've promised ahead I'm way ahead of my skis but I promised in my next monthly webinar to focus on those structural flaws so I'll post a link but it's not like these structural impediments didn't exist they have been systematically dismantled again starting with Reagan I mean we had antitrust we had all those banking regulations and so on they have been systematically taken apart I would say they this does not date to Reagan the state's about four or five hundred years before Reagan but Reagan did a really nice job of taking apart some of the guardrails Reagan was implementing the Powell Memorial yes Lewis Powell yeah do people know about that I wanted to explain I'm sorry about me yeah Lewis Powell is an attorney later to become supreme court justice who is commissioned by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in the early 1970s to address the challenge of the rising disaffection in the culture with corporations and he wrote a game a brief and a game plan that and this is about the same time of course in Milton Friedman writes his seminal paper arguing that the only purpose of business is to maximize return to shareholders no other yep which became catechism for a bunch of decades and Powell proposed a you know a propaganda and policy campaign to centralize the role of business in society to remove impediments to business activity I'm sorry I'm blanking on the details but you know deregulation anti-union concentration of capital if and you look back over the last what it's now almost 50 years you look back over the last 50 years especially in the 70s and 80s you see that agenda being put into place not just programmatically but as part of the cultural space of the country and eventually the world just you know what was set out has become normal in the discourse and one of the things that that's I find really challenging and I don't have my generations right but let's say millennials because everybody blames everybody millennials if they don't blame them on boomers the the the the libertarianism that we see particularly out of Silicon Valley but in general among a cohort younger than mine as kind of a you know a normal framework government is the enemy it's all on me I've built this myself which of course Elizabeth Warren eloquently countered you know it's a denial of the social network of value creation and it's now finally being challenged in some ways I'll see if I can find a link to a film that my friend Donnie Goldmacher made that dives into this more directly point being is that social evolution doesn't just happen there are directed strategic efforts that muster resources to change the norms and that's the way and that's one of the challenges we have now and we have you know we have Greta on our side but we don't have the capital resources the Koch brothers on our side anybody else on this topic I feel like there should be somebody here to say okay boomer awkward the opportunity you're totally right for me this is a really rich load of what's happened in life and it's how the sausage got made and it's it's the the scripts that ate our heads that the left bot is a whole there's a whole thread in my brain about how Clinton and and others basically bought the neoliberal agenda and basically became conservatives and in my brain it says that Clinton was a pretty good moderate republican president and and so we're a lot of the things that we're suffering from that got us Trump were were sown in those in those particular shifts and movements and fights over the scripts in our heads cool let's go let's go go ahead pause yeah I mean what overlooked in all this is the the process of externalities that have been completely disregarded in the process of developing industry of allowing corporations to run freely and unfettered there was no defender for protecting the natural environment so it's an extractive system where nature is being depleted and has been depleted and we are just now realizing the impact of that and it's very difficult to reverse the this this type the way of doing business that has become so used where you just use nature is you know is a capital input John go ahead then yeah I want to figure out how to negotiate the space between Klaus's view of what's happening right now and the implications of what most of us are saying which are too long-term to have an effect in that space how should we live there's the question who is answering this question well is it philosophers like Harari is it seem to lab I don't think so is it eco feminism if so who like who is who is who is creating I'll share a link in my brain which is a promising solutions to world problems where I where I collect up a whole bunch of these things but but who does who do you all see is creating promising solutions to that question answers that question uh not I mean problematic problematic but just one to add to the list is something called solar punk have you heard of this okay so not that I completely get it but the basic idea is take a bunch of pretty good ideas but in particular the idea of decentralization and the idea of higher engagement and higher kind of creating a kind of a half tribal circle so in other words start small start with a smaller community decentralize its its power using solar wind whatever decentralize its food in order to you know do something like the 50 mile rule get some significant percentage of your food locally you're not solving the world problem but you're building a a Lego block a social Lego block that is by itself inherently more resilient to what's coming you're you're you're uh fulfilling your obligation as far as carbon free or carbon negative but you're not and again you're not trying to convince your state or your federal government to go with you you're just starting let us show you here we're going to do this little experiment here we'll do another one over there that'll be a little different let's give it a shot let's see how it works love it thanks John let's go Bentley Stacy mark hello everyone just to pop the stack on one of the topics I thought I'd wait till because I was coming up on the on the buying or owning digital goods with smart contracts just an interesting idea I'm going to throw out doesn't need any discussion and have it be a lease of ownership with a continuous bidding so rather than buying it and then selling it later I mean that's that's the type thing you do and be interesting to continuously fund that artist so that's just something I've been playing around with and then back talking about vaccine misinformation and hesitancy I'm in the point where I've been working on a project to facilitate large group discussions on contentious issues or large decisions it's called gollybot a back looking for feedback on that project so I'll put a link in especially anyone who knows anyone who's hesitant about taking the vaccine or even militantly against it and also if anyone's a mathematician wants to donate a little time helping me figure out the scoring algorithm or someone anyone interested in helping to kind of market and spread this around to get a larger feedback those are the type of help I could use on on that project sounds great thanks Bentley any but any mathematicians in the house want to take the records and algorithms that I think Ken Homer put up from from an MD who wanted to share the side effects of this Pfizer product and goes through lists of anaphylaxis sudden death heart attack stroke ventricular arrhythmia etc etc etc etc etc etc right and then says of course he's talking about Viagra not the vaccine and I saw it this morning it was awesome yeah right Pete Bentley just a quick question and I don't need an answer but make sure that you're hooked up with Trove as a project or an organization or whatever Vincent would say that you should be categorized as and and by way of answering or or suggesting that to Bentley I want to suggest to everybody that partly in answer in in achingly inadequate answer to to Doug's question you know how do we live how do we live now I think most most of the people here are I am I am you know I I'm either very uncomfortable with the way I live my life because I'm not doing enough solar punk stuff or I feel pretty comfortable with with it because the main part of my life right now is figuring out how humans decentralize and federate and share information and think stronger and stuff like that so you know I'm I feel like along with the chopping wood and carrying water of my day-to-day life making sure the dog gets walked making sure that that I eat healthy food even if I have to buy suboptimal food or from through a suboptimal system I'm I feel like I'm working towards you know stumbling towards a solution very inadequately at least but I'm not uncomfortable with that usually and I guess another way of answering Doug's question is how do you live with this the kind of the psychological rift between you know everything is all f'd up and you know and we should all just end it all right now or you know how do we carry on and and know that it's not going to be enough and yet still have hope for the future um a long story short I got myself a little bit shocked that there projects like Bentley's and exist in a matrix of Federation soup is the way I think of it around OGM and around Kiko lab and around collective sense commons and around you know massive massive stuff there's a bunch of we're all in this factor thanks for thanks for your smiling face Michael um we are we are slowly shuffling along with everything else we're slowly shuffling to have project directories so the one that's farthest along right now is is Vincent's trove so if you're working on something or if you're looking for things to work on get yourself into trove at some point those all of that information will swoosh around over to massive wikis and things like that too they're not quite it's not quite doing that yet but um but let's let's OGM do all that stuff together right let's have projects and organizations and and decentralized humans federating um as part of OGM and get yourself in trove right away thanks Pete um let's go Stacey mark Simon so when I heard the word desperation that sort of goes through all of my different streams of thought lately um since I've been able to be out and about more and I've been having conversations with real world people I've heard a lot of stories about people who have friends or family or kids that haven't gone back to work because they're collecting unemployment and you know what what struck me though is that it's reduced the stress in so many people and it's actually led to a better quality of life and so this morning let's see if you could figure out my brain works in many it all has to come together but I was reading Jerry's post and I started um I started looking at the comments and I was listening to some of the Ted talks that other people commented on regarding you know what we could do I think it was like a hundred solutions something like that and as I was listening well first of all let me go back when I was a young mother I used to watch Oprah religiously because I was at home all of my friends none of them had children they were working so Oprah was my friend the best part of it would be once a year when she would have this giveaway and I would watch this giveaway and I would be elated for the rest of the day and I later realized I was picking up the energy of all that joy that was there and so in my life I really look at emotions almost like a virus like they do spread so let me leave that as a background because I don't think that business leaders think enough about the costs of stress or the benefits of reducing stress so that brings me to the part of the video where I was washing dishes I wasn't listening 100% but apparently there's a better way to do refrigeration and it just made me think how great to give people these refrigerators you still need businesses making them people get to you know they don't have to worry about how they're going to replace the refrigerator because now they have a brand new refrigerator and it's something good for the planet so I'm rambling but that's really what I'm thinking about I just would love to see um I'd love to see people focus on the benefit of making people happy because I just think it's overlooked and underrated and I'm complete on that I see thank you thanks also for pointing my inquiry on on the book of the face because I'm trying to collect up stories about not stories but what are short nuggets of video mostly that explain what this new world looks like that are counterintuitive that are you know that that will take us forward into living in a new way that kind of answer the question we just asked here so how do we how do we go there um and I had another thought and I've just lost that I apologize um so let's go mark simon gill um thank you um gonna surf on the virus and and and the vaccine um I met uh two weeks ago and spoke more deeply yesterday with what we uh what we call a poop lady uh it's a poop doctor someone who studies um human microbiomes in the guts and the reason we connected is simply because um people in the amazon have uh the most complete gut microbiome that we can find so it's really interesting um whether it is a gut microbiome a skin microbiome to compare um what what we lost as modern humans um compared to them and what implication it has in um the many illnesses that plague us whether they're mental they're um um neuro or you know gut anything and um what what what she found out by comparing um modern gut microbes and traditional people's gut microbes was that once you get and there is a lot there is not like that simple it's not as simple as this but um usually when you get vaccinated you will lose some of the essential bacteria in your guts she found these as an explanation to autism for instance but not just that Parkinson's Alzheimer and others so what she is specializing in is um poop transplant um and I'm and I'm and I'm pointing to that um just one of the things that has always frustrated me with the discourse on vaccines is that we don't pay enough attention to the side effects so we we have a found uh and and that found is existing most of countries that I know of um if people have um bad reaction to a vaccine usually within three months um then you apply for something and they gave you something but there is absolutely no follow-up no studies no effort to understand why this happens and that contributes to uh feeding anti anti-vaxxers on you know we shouldn't get vaccinated because it destroys something and we get sick um so it's it was it was really a very very rich insightful conversation and um she identified a few bacteria that that do contribute to of the absence contribute to um um Alzheimer and autism and other illnesses like this um so I wanted to to share that with you guys and um last but not least um I mentioned a few times someone by the name of uh Kenyan Cyrus Rhodes um she's the hair of Aunt Mary Cyrus who um created a deco village in Indian Kenyan um near Alistair, California and um so she finally um got got traction in um in bringing forward a vision once she takes over her mother's and that's coming very very soon and Mary is having health issues uh and Mary was um um Native American activist very powerful in in in trying to get lands for Californian Native Americans that have been dispossessed and um so she she hasn't asked and I don't know if anyone here can can help but she needs um she needs a lot of things from legal support to uh web design, copywriting, grant writing, um strategy and organizing so um I know all of you are super busy but if you know of or you yourself would love to learn more I'm going to post a couple of links in the Mattermost and please do contact me thank you thanks Mark I was just going to suggest you post in the Mattermost and that way whoever's interested can go ahead and contact her um a couple quick things I'm a big I've never experienced but I'm a huge fan of fecal transplants I think that our microbiome is a magical thing I'm a little puzzled about vaccines destroying antibiotics definitely wipe out your your bacteria that's like one of the horrible things about antibiotics is that like boom you just it's like dropping a hand grenade inside your system vaccines cause your system to generate a whole bunch of in the case of the mRNA vaccines spike proteins that are that are very particular to the virus they don't unless there's weird interactions which there could be they don't wipe out with anything else they don't destroy stuff they don't they're just making your body hyper produce a particular thing so I'm completely confused that somebody would would associate vaccines with wiping out parts of your immune system and then years ago I had an idea that people in favelas and people in amazon jungles probably have more resilient like people like us probably wouldn't survive more than a week in a favela because we drink the water and we would like shit our brains out and die if we didn't have immediate medical attention because our systems are just not used to it I grew up in Peru my mom was in the american expat community she watched as the other parents were boiling the water for their kids she's like we're not doing that so so the first the first while I had colics and whatever but then I could drink from a hose on the street and I'd be fine and so so I had an idea for a couple businesses one was is selling your poop a viable revenue source for people in very hard put places in the world and b why doesn't anybody have a fecal bank basically a hot backup and transfer for people like imagine that for you personally at a moment of peak health you could bank some of your poop cryogenically and then bring it back when you when you had just gone through like a huge regime regimen of of antibiotics or something like that that wiped you out you could sort of bring your own poop back in for yourself anyway peep then mark I like the the fecal banking idea and there's a there's a thing about microbiomes that they're they're complex they're individual and probably even your microbiome biome from now may or may not help you you know two years from now when you're better or worse or or whatever so I think there's a lot of it's not a plug-and-play solution and then the other thing is just on a quick on a quick search there is a british bitish medical journal article actually it's a letter there have been some potentially potential interactions between the vaccine and and especially in people who are frail so happens thank you some promising research a while ago was that they were taking microbiome samples from thin mice and putting them in obese mice and with no change in diet the mice were losing weight so and then microbiomes also affect our moods so imagine maybe mood transplants which is all kind of strange but the microbiome is insanely powerful and we call our gut our second brain for many good reasons including the fact that there are like a huge amount of neurons around your your gut more than we think sorry mark back to you in the booth no thank you for saying that I was I was going to also share the same but what what we see in and I've worked also with Larry Weiss I don't know if I'm someone that I'm trying to to bring into that group on Thursday morning is such an interesting character um created a skin care product line with microbes fermented microbes and we went went to the amazon and looked at the what happened when some of my indigenous friends will live for a week in the city and they started developing um some some scar tissues on their skin probably you know maybe they do the water or suddenly they're using soap which they never use when they're in the jungle um and and and so it it changes very quickly um the gut the skin nozzle uh mouse etc um I think I think what she was pointing to was that um yes as Pete was mentioning really interesting microbes um and and she needs to go much further this poop lady into studying on a large scale which exactly which exact microbes are missing after an intervention like vaccines or antibiotics or you know change of food uh diet um the food diet is is changes you get micro microbiome very quickly so she's she's in the process of doing that but the first um test that she has uh performed conducted showed that there are some microbes that are missing after a vaccine thanks mark what you just said reminded me of a talk that I saw Danny Hillis give years ago it's online I'll put a link to it um but he's not a life scientist or a doctor but and he was kind of sweating and trembling a little bit when he gave his talk but he was talking about proteomics and basically the protein mix that's in our blood and his talk was about cancer and he said cancer is a verb your body cancers your body goes into cancering mode where cells start to overproduce and and I don't remember what else he was saying in the talk but it seemed like a really interesting approach toward the way we see the evolution of these diseases and what's going on it had nothing to do with microbiomes or anything like that but but it was a challenge to like approaches to to seeing disease um let's go we're we're starting to get well along in our time let's go Simon Gil Pete hi um I'm here follow on from Peter was saying because of the the trove site I just clicked on the link it's interesting yay love that I was I was going to leave but it's certainly been very very interesting it is also I also stayed because I spent an hour and a half listening to your your your conversation on um generative commons because I'm very interested in you know how how you build a business if you fundamentally believe in degrowth so that's kind of what I'm working on which again ties into what Pete was talking about because it has to be at a local level um meeting people's needs without the profit motive hollowing out capitalism by using its tools against itself for everybody's benefit okay can we just print can you can we just print that as a motto sure yeah I mean I'm working on something called um chrysalis communities chrysalis being the transformative space between something which is dying or thinks it's dying but then regenerates into something completely different can you can you describe chrysalis a little bit for us well the it's just the idea that you know within communities we need to transition and the chrysalis is the best metaphor I've come up with for that transitional space because it's just it looks like something's dying but it goes it transforms shuts down and returns it turns into goo it just turns into goo like they can't quite figure out what's going on scientists are looking going what well maybe that's what we're talking about a little prince maybe we're all turning into goo but maybe yeah that'd be good sorry metaphor metaphorically you're going after something more like the little prince yeah well yeah Simon thank you thanks for being here um Simon are you on the matter most chat I'm not I'm on matter most but not in your group good so um I'll put a link in we have a channel for the generative commons conversation and if you follow that if you join that channel we're going to have recurring calls around that topic and you're we'd love it if you joined but just one very last thing at cornerstone of what I'm working on this is differentiating money is a medium exchange of store value I think that's where a big problem lies I've got mechanisms to achieve that to invest in things locally so actually local assets rather than universal basic kingdom universal basic assets underwritten by local assets owned collectively you know with the seven generation principles stakeholders thanks we're all on on these kinds of paths trying to figure out what where this goes and and just a wild card here is what if there were insanely cheap you know energy too cheap to meter except it's not from nuclear life we were promised four years ago but it's from solar and wind and regenerative power and that changes a whole bunch of equations including the brute force way of getting water back into the world which is diesel right if there's a lot of water at the coastlines everywhere and you can cheaply turn it into potable water or useful water then that changes a whole bunch of stuff right there but there's a whole bunch of these things that are that we're on the cusp of and and we don't understand the implications and again I'm trying to harvest who's who's got really interesting takes on all those kinds of levers and those those kinds of things that are changing I'm trying to collect those up into into some narratives we can browse it's the end of business the end of trade we don't need it you know we need to evolve beyond that surely you know it's all about competitive mechanisms to get things done and surely we're smarter than that well see where it goes and there's lots of good philosophical discussions there as well let's let's go Gil, Pete, Judy. Yeah, Jerry let's have a session focused just on collecting those ideas that you just asked for okay because there's you know there's a lot there and a lot of us have pieces of threads so let's do that I'm in a I'm in a rich love hate relationship with this group and others like it I find that I'm spending more and more of my time in really rich generative Zoom chats with diverse groups of people on different topics just into Kiko lab this week for the first time and so there's another thing on the list I feel like I'm in graduate school or like I want to be in graduate school and just read and write all the time and think and there's also work to do in the world so I'm you know in a struggle with that balance it's a delightful struggle thank you guys for your piece of that particular puzzle related to that I'm I've been working I've been working hard lately on focusing me on you know despite all of this rich bubbling up of everything on moving forward on a couple of projects that I'm wanting to pursue to in particular I'm having a hard time choosing between them and I think I'm finally finding some synergy and I'll talk more about that another time when there's more time but basically you know basically to do with generating leadership and moving capital and support of the world that we want in the focus meet project I have thanks thanks to Pete among others I'm looking at personal knowledge management systems and productive writing systems thinking both about tools and processes I'm kind of going down a rabbit hole Pete you know I'm playing with brain gerry but that doesn't seem like a good that seems like a knowledge environment more than a writing environment yeah and so I'm looking at obsidian and various other things and trying to find my way through that but also remembering Isaac Asimov who did it with typewriters you know and a U shaped X with six or eight typewriters right around it he had a share on wheels and he would work on whichever book was his mood in that moment and then flip to the next one and back to the next one so I don't have a physical space big enough to do that so I'm trying to craft a digital space I didn't know that's how he'd set up his office he was an insanely prolific writer thousand books right yeah yeah the other insanely prolific writer I've come across lately is Lurman and the whole Zettelkasten system so I've been checking that out and I'm not sure I want to go down that rabbit hole if anybody has experience with that I would love to hear from you Lurman was a guy who built a system of a physical filing system in what was called a slip box which is what Zettelkasten means where there was you know one card per theme a raid in a box with new you know with handwritten numerological linkings between it there's software applications of that that you know people are enthusiastic about some of them I don't know if I want to go there so that's kind of one area of inquiry that I'd love to pursue further with any of you who are interested on the project side I've been working focusing increasingly on climate finance on how do we actually mobilize the capital to do what needs to be done and one observation is that everything underway right now is woefully inadequate in scale and even in grasp of the problem here in the Bay Area you know there's there's some assessment of what kind of government funding state and federal that could be mobilized to adapt the bay to rising seas and they're coming up with numbers like you know five percent of what they think is the budget and we think the budget is you know is multiples or maybe orders of magnitude too low so huge problem there so I've been thinking into that a lot I've I've I've invented a couple of ideas one having to do with carbon price and one having to do with with value generation around climate adaptation I think one of them is going to stay private and one of them I will put into public domain but I really need a conversation with a very good patent attorney understand what are the options what are where's the leverage what's the right way to play this if any of you have suggestions of that um um hopefully you know sympathetic to our norms and modes here would be great but I'm uh looking for suggestions there because these things have been sitting on the shelf and need to get out in the world in one form or another well it turns out that Lorelai who's in our community is a patent agent and knows a bunch about patents I don't think she's a patent attorney but she may know some people who are reliable and who could be helpful and a patent agent might be a good enough starting point so I would welcome that that connection I'm also wondering and maybe some of you've been in this territory I'm between Jane and I were constantly generating ideas that are interesting would be good projects or good businesses or good something and instead of just sitting on them it seems that we could on the one hand just throw them out in the world Johnny Applesey just screw them out to see what happens on another hand we could maybe do a little mini personal incubator and say here's a project who wants to take it on take half of it take two thirds of it whatever it is do some kind of split between the generators of the idea and the and the developers and perpetrators of the idea and I wonder if anyone has seen models like that they're really what like bill gross and the idea lab yeah back back in the 90s did that except it was really centered around bill gross and it was a huge mechanism that turned out startups and tried to you know try to change the world and invented go to commas one of the early search engines that came out of that which invented some piece of what exists in Google now etc etc but but that's I don't think that's the road you want to you want to follow because bill also was not just a an idea generator is also a venture capital firm exactly and I don't have the assets to be a venture venture capital firm so I'm looking more of a collaborative development where someone comes in and their sweat equity and networks and so forth bring value and our ideas and networks and experience bring value and there's some kind of split but we're not we're not investing substantial capital we're investing ideas and relationships they're investing you know I experience relationships and capacity and sweat so I'm looking for that and that may be a relevant idea for a lot of the stuff that we're talking about in the OGM people have etc communities as a way to propagate stuff in the world and I have a similar instinct and desire and also I'm hoping some of those ideas might be stood up on top of OGM as OGM starts to grow up and get out of toddler phase and become an adolescent that it might be the home or container or vessel or platform for some of those some of those ideas in different ways you know and and last last not least all of this would depend on on digital smart digital contracts and the sort that he was talking about earlier. A buddy of mine has just started an enterprise we had the first online session for it yesterday and he said it pointedly said we did not create this is not an organization we haven't created a C-Corporate LLC or anything of that sort what we've got is six founders with contracts between them all I don't know they're smart contracts but the notion of forming a collaborative effort based around smart contracts rather than based on a corporate structure is a pretty intriguing. That's it. Thank you let's go we're going to run out of time here. I'm going to dive I've got another call I'm supposed to be on 15 minutes ago so bless and see you next week. Thank you and we're going to run out of time here let's go Pete Judy Scott. Hi I'm going to hit return on my matter most post and because Gildus went I can answer a bunch of things for him real quick maybe he'll catch it on the recording maybe not. Zettelkasten I think has been more or less replaced by the by like things like obsidian so I think definitely be inspired by Zettelkasten and then use something like obsidian there's a bunch of people who have worked on that for a tool like obsidian or a tool like Rome or something like that it turns out that you need not just the tool even the brain actually you need a methodology of working with it and there's there are a lot of people who have published their methodologies or parts of their methodologies so I don't have a good entree to that except maybe to say one one person who's mostly selling his knowledge and mentoring about a workflow to use something like obsidian or Rome with is Nick Milo in the olden days like two years ago it was Tiago Forte now it's Nick Milo with linking your thinking so he has an expensive seminar that he gives and interactive mentoring and things like that I'm not sure that I would recommend that but I think he's also generated a fair amount of like public residue that that's interesting if you go on YouTube and search for you know obsidian Rome or linking your thinking or Zettelkasten personal knowledge management network knowledge management there's a bunch of other terms to knowledge ecosystems knowledge gardens all that kind of stuff if you just search for a little while you'll find people talking about it and you'll start to see at the you'll you'll start to recognize that there are methodologies of using it I have good news to report with obsidian I'm getting super productive in it now that I've tweaked it up a little bit and I've I've kind of settled down on getting a mythology methodology to it I'm also super excited to report that one of the people I've been working with who started kind of from zero with the idea of hyper knowledge and starting from zero with the idea of obsidian has poked around enough and I think it's only taken her like three hours or something like that in four hours elapsed time but she's not very technical she doesn't really know how to use a bunch of the computer stuff but now she's starting to link her thinking and it's it's wonderful to see so by the way just a quick aside nick milo's linking your thinking is very similar to a phrasing that we used to use link your thinking back in the wiki day so it's it's not his exactly um gill asked about patent attorneys and I have kind of two things one of them is look at generative commons and and generative commons is going to be figuring out what patents mean and how to do something better than patents for the world and also I would second second the recommendation of asking laura lie laura lies probably well placed to know some patent attorneys and I think she talked about one to me and then ideas gill asked an interesting question we've got a bunch of great ideas and they should be out in the world more and my answer to that is I this uh this comes from a lot of silicon valley experience actually silicon valley uh entrepreneurial experience and and and vc experience uh the the thing that vcs have recognized for decades is that there's not a lack of ideas there's a lack of execution so uh the a good idea may be a good idea and maybe a useful idea and the the best way to kind of leverage it and put it out in the world um is probably actually not to try to take a percentage of it um uh with a caveat but I'll explain in a sec the thing to do is to do a really good write-up of it or do one or two experiments that show that the idea has promised the more experiments that you do that show that an idea has promised the the more value it has it goes from probably essentially zero value to incremental value for every experiment publish that on medium publish out on twitter to talk about an ogm and kiko lab get it out there um uh an idea by itself and especially about the context of why it would work and why it's interesting and stuff like that is is pretty useless and then there's no way for you to know how to get it to the right person the the best way to do it is to publish it and make it widespread and get a bunch of other people talking about it and and hope somebody picks it up jerry really briefly on that and you're reminding me for years i've i've wished that there was some kind of a pipeline or a broadcast system that would put these kinds of ideas in front of students worldwide because there's a whole bunch of students out there scratching their heads going gosh i need to do a term paper i need to do a phd i need to do a project for this pool for them and and they're given meaningless tasks and stupid ideas to go work with and in this way we could figure out which of them is like really good at getting things done at project management that whatever whatever but but if we could marry up these ideas with young humans who need to figure out what they're going to do in life that might actually work out really well it's it's an interesting idea and i like it um my my observation there is that the problem isn't dearth of ideas students themselves have tons of ideas right great ideas probably actually some of the best ideas um the problem there is the educational system which says that i'm sorry you can't work you know you can't work with other people you can't build a project with people you can't you know we have to grade you on things that we know about already so i'm going to teach you old dead knowledge from 20 years ago or 50 years ago or 200 years ago and then i can score you on how well you understand some you know horrible thing that doesn't matter anymore right um so the problem there is the educational system and not a dearth of ideas um i think it's a great idea to have you know an ideation idea uh actually probably i would probably guess that um us old farts um are going to get more ideas and more richness by um going into an idea tumbler with a bunch of high schoolers um you know i could say well i have this great idea for knowledge management blah blah blah and i've thought about it for decades and you know and i'm sure within within you know half an hour i'd have 10 more brilliant ideas coming out of a a group of you know teenagers from you know the inner city or something like that um uh so ideas get them out there don't sit on them don't try to monetize them if it's a really good idea what ends up happening a lot of the time and enough time to make it worth your while if i spread 10 ideas or a thousand ideas out into the world and two of them or three of them hit um a smart person executing on that deal will come find me and go i think you know more about this idea than you probably published helped me figure it out more and that's when we can talk about value exchange and monetization and all that kind of stuff um uh so now to jump up to my uh bullet points um uh balances this group is really this particular group this call is really hard for me it's really hard to look at a bunch of males in this group and and stay um and i don't know i don't know what to do about that yet but it's it's tipping more and more to like you know i just can't make this call i'm sorry i love you all um uh with exception of simon i don't love you yet because i don't know you very well but literally every person here every face here is near and dear to me i love you all i've worked with you all it's all of you are very important to me and we cannot keep working like this this is messed up and counterproductive and let's fix it or you know or literally i think i'm going to have to stop coming um and and i'm not i don't know how to fix it i i my my my working my working thesis for how to fix a group like this is uh you don't start like this you know you you can't it's you start with initial conditions and you grow a group that's diverse um and it's like uh actually systematics the my favorite bible it's you know you can't you can't turn a complex system into a better system you have to start with a small system that works and and grow it from there um uh hyperscale social structures and humanity i i i did a great riff on the kiko lab call this week i'm gonna go go back and harvest it um the the big problems the the root of the problem to work on is that um social structures got away from us you know somewhere between a hundred years ago and a thousand years ago two thousand years ago and and it's you you can't change the system inside the system you actually have to go figure out how we're going to deconstruct social structures um and then big social structures that exist are going to fight that and so that's where i see the you know the war for humanity um and i don't use the the word war lightly um so obviously decentralization in federation is you know kind of the counter to that um all of us are working really hard on that uh the artificial intelligence conversation in um the mailing list has been super interesting to me um i i like there's artificial intelligence is a flag word for flag phrase for me because uh it doesn't have anything to do with intelligence um AI right now it's not smart at all um uh it's just uh interestingly scalable and does some cool stuff but it's not smart at all and so the problem i think that we have with AI quote unquote AI um is that we let a lot of these tools technologies be autonomous um so there's different kinds of autonomy uh if i i tell it you know if i have a drone that can sense and react to stimuli and i let it fly around and shoot people if i put a gun on it um there's nothing intelligent in there i made the choice to you know enable a gun hooked up to an autonomous sensor system do do things right and that's going to be bad news right um another kind of autonomy is actually scale so facebook has a lot of AI working against humanity not because that they hate humanity is just too stupid to know what to do with their scale of AI but that's a place where the autonomy of the AI is because they wanted to do stuff at scale right i want to mark zuckerberg and his infinite wisdom said i want to affect the lives of billions of people and i want to change their minds for oh i guess it's for the paying customers and then the paying customers are people that we probably don't want to be changing the minds of billions of people the problem there is not the AI the problem is not really even the algorithms or anything like that the problem is that mark zuckerberg and his team of technologists turned that technology loose it's kind of like putting a machine gun in the middle of time square with a motor underneath it and wondering what's going to happen you know i think i'm guessing that's not going to be a good thing so an AI is not any smarter than a machine gun on a rotating platform really so it does some interesting things it can do sensing and it can do actuating but the sensing and the actuating isn't the problem the people who design the sensing and the actuating or grew it actually now you grow AI in a in a vat basically that's not the problem the problem is whoever fricking put the machine gun in middle of times time square right why would you do that and you know if somebody did shouldn't we like say hey i i don't think you know one machine gun or a billion machine guns is a good plan you know let's figure out how to how to stop it um so then my last thing i i keep wishing i you know we've i think all of us kind of bump into this you know once in a while if we had a way to do community currency or a local exchange system or something like that i i think we would do better off there's lots of reasons we haven't done it and they make sense but if we had something like that um then it would be really cool and i wish that for that i don't have another good way to you know make that happen or or even pick the right system but um something to to go for thank you thank you great you are you are muted cherry thank you sorry um we are at 90 minutes i think we have to wrap the call and my apologies to six of us who didn't get to jump in and check in um i'll try to start with uh those of you next call next week and um when we started these calls the initial invites were all like hey if you're a white guy like me try to bring somebody else who isn't like you into these calls and that kind of failed miserably um so there was a lot of intention for to create more diversity at the start of this pete and i appreciate you're pointing it out and every now and then we stop and go damn it uh what are we doing and then we're we're still in this situation so anything that any one of us can do to improve this situation will help the entire community and so let's let's all kind of think about that and invite our friends in and whatever because the most powerful social change agent in my head is a friend taking a friend by the hand to try something new lots of lots of big things have happened in the world good and bad by exactly that little dynamic um so with that i thank you all for a terrific call this has been like wild and i've been gardening stuff into my brain i'll post the video to youtube as usual and uh see you all in a week thank you jude would you still i had emailed you the day that you asked me to meet but i never heard back from you did you receive it um probably but i've been i had a few health issues and i got behind on email and so that's probably what happened um and then i had such a mountain to go through that it has taken a while um they're recording so i don't want i won't talk more should i just email you again sure okay it's going to come under stacy cara okay might not reckon okay take care perfect