 The naive Cartesian mind would like to have this kernel of self that is inviolate. And then there's the maybe outer layers of self that are formed through interactions with others in the world. And the way I came to understand it is that all the way down to the core it is relationship, which means that I cannot insulate myself from the world or from other people. One of the delusions of technology and of technological progress is that we could, in theory, we could destroy nature, destroy the rainforests, poison the earth, but or oppress other populations. And if we can build a complete enough bubble around ourselves, we'll be able to insulate ourselves from those effects. So we destroy the biosphere well. No problem. We can make artificial food. It's already being developed in, it's called precision fermentation. You know, we don't need nature anymore. We can alter the climate. We can bleach the sky white with sulfur aerosols. We could have bubble cities, bubble suits, protect ourselves from the world, and exert our mastery and dominance over the world. That is a product of thinking that there is this kernel of self separate from the world. Like what happens to you, what happens to the rainforest, what happens to the whales, need not affect me. But when I understand that my very existence is at its core part of the existence of the whales, then or the, you know, people in Yemen or somewhere else, then I know that that whatever happens to them is in some way happening to me because my existence is relational. When you understand that existence itself is relational, then you no longer can think in terms of separate concrete selves having relationships. But it's more that the relationships create the selves.