 Today, Sean Chandler stops by to help me determine which Terminator is a worthy third installment. And no matter what we decide, you guys are going to get mad at us in the comment section. So come with me if you want to be disappointed. It's Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines versus Terminator Dark Fate on another episode of Movie Feuds. I'm going to be defending Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines today because I let Sean pick first. So here goes. Terminator 3 puts the focus solely on John Connor this time around, opting to kill Sarah Connor off-screen. Yeah, killing off a beloved female action hero off-screen with cancer just so you don't have to have her in the movie. Great choice. Perhaps even bold, one could say. You could say bold or you could say foolishly. Either one works. I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on here, Sean. Let's not forget what Dark Fate did in the opening two minutes of the film. Are we going to throw a spoiler warning on this, or do you not even care about your 10 viewers? Yeah, moviegoers don't actually go to movies anymore unless it's superhero related. Instead they go on YouTube, watch a couple videos of people feeling outraged about something, and then regurgitate that to their friends. We're in the clear on this. Don't worry. Nobody saw Dark Fate. Fair enough, though, this is a huge reveal. So if you plan on seeing Terminator Dark Fate and the internet hasn't spoiled this for you yet, leave, walk away, see the movie, and then come back and watch this amazing video. Cool. Telling people to shut off the video. What a fun guest you are. That's your channel, not mine. I'm not worried about that. So Terminator Dark Fate kills off an incredibly real-looking deepfake of John Connor the day after Terminator 2 took place. There's something like that. That's right. Terminator Deep State couldn't even be bothered to continue John's storyline. Providence has already tried that three times, and people didn't like those movies. I beg to differ. Rising the Machines features a John like you've never seen him before. Right, because Nick Stahl doesn't look, sound, or act anything like Edward Furlong, and I don't think any of us ever wanted to see John Connor pushed by a girl into a little dog cage. Joining Stahl is his future wife slash general-to-be, Kate Brewster, played by Claire Danes. They have some solid chemistry and learn to respect each other by the time this film closes out. Which can't come soon enough. Terminator Dark Fate undoes the terrible decision to kill off Sarah Connor off-screen and gives us a new set of characters. Of course, we've got Linda Hamilton coming back, and she might be better than ever. Hunting Terminators with her is Natalie Reyes as Danny Mackenzie Davis as Grace, and of course we've got Arnold back as the T-800 in a very interesting take on the T-800. For 20 minutes, as a lumberjack father who sells draperies out of a van. He also learns to love, change diapers, and do the dishes. I have Arnold for a full film, and he's doing cool stuff like smashing through buildings off the side of a crane. And telling a clerk to talk to the hand. Mowing down cop vehicles while holding a casket. Putting on bedazzled sunglasses. Going head to head with a brand new sexy model simply known as the TX. And doesn't she make her boobs bigger to get out of a speeding ticket? Nice. The world was asking for a hot, sumptuous fembot, Sean. And in Terminator 3, the machines weren't the only things rising if you catch my drift. So Skynet has been played out in these films due to all of his basically self-parody Terminator films. Dark Fate decided to come up with a new villain. The First Order. No Legion actually, but I do appreciate what you did there. These new Terminators are bigger, stronger, and faster, and they can agent smith themselves. The duplication feature is pretty cool, and as a bonus, it's a nice metaphor for the film itself. Considering the fact that Terminator Dark Fate is nothing more than a copy of T2. Judgment Day. Gabrielle Luna can get all the CG bells and whistles he wants. This Rev 9 still pales in comparison to Robert Patrick as the T-1000. Except he's not up against the T-1000. He's up against T3's The Devil Wears Prada. I wish. Meryl Streep would absolutely crush it as a Terminator. On that, we're in full agreement. Let's talk about the story. I'm not sure how things work over on your channel. Sean ranks the same four movies over and over again. But here, I'm the one that announces the new rounds. Well, I can see why you haven't had a guest host in several years. We know both of these movies don't hold the candle to the first two Terminators. And the time travel, which was already a paradox, is now full-blown unorthodox. And unorthodox. Paradox. Let me take you back in time to the year 2007. John Connor's off the grid, only seeking animal shelters when he needs a quick fix. It's there where he finds his future bride to be and America's next top model, the TX. She's been sent by Skynet again to kill John Connor in the present since the T-1000 failed in the past, present. It turns out you can't change the future. Judgment Day is inevitable. Thankfully, a third T-800 identical model was also sent back in time to once again protect John. Now it's a race to once again stay alive as John and Kate do everything they can to avoid the future that is unavoidable. It's Terminator 2 stupid days. Once again, John Connor is on the run from the opening credits until the closing credits once again Arnold is sent back in time as a good Terminator program to protect him. Kristen Locan, very attractive to look at, but that kind of undermines the fact that we're supposed to be afraid of her. Listen, for everything Terminator 3 does wrong, which is basically everything, the final act is damn good. It's far more serious and disturbing than anything else in the film. The shots of the nukes launching and dropping is some great tragedy. Terminator woke fate is just Jurassic World, Star Wars, Halloween, and all these other soft reboots rolled into one. This time we have a female John Connor who is somehow less charismatic than Nick Stahl. How? Her defining characteristic is overcoming the obstacle of not being able to drive a truck. Then there's the girl power dialogue that thankfully doesn't overwhelm the movie, but occasionally has to make itself known. Sarah Connor bitterly complaining that she was targeted for having a womb is a tad bizarre. I mean, my mom would be proud to carry me if she found out I was going to be the leader of the Resistance and not a complete disappointment like I am currently. Some dodgy dialogue aside, Terminator Dark Fate is packed with memorable fight sequences that are just cool to look at. Rise of the Machines gives us a pretty awesome obligatory car chase. So there you have it. Thanks for coming out. Dark Fates is better. It's relentless just like the movie. A lot of people are given this one crap for undoing the victory of Terminator 2, though the movie makes it plainly clear inside of the concept that John Connor was responsible for stopping Judgment Day and stopping the Skynet apocalypse. He was successful. He fulfilled his destiny inside of this film and kind of falling into biblical archetypes and things like that. He was the person that had to die so that mankind could be saved. Powerful stuff falls right in line with Terminator 2's worldview. T3 however, changes the entire worldview of the entire franchise. It previously had been we have no fate for that which we wait make for ourselves and then what do we have in T3? Judgment Day is inevitable. It's determinism. It's a totally different worldview. It's saying no all that stuff you did in Terminator 2 doesn't matter. The world's still gonna end. They went full force awakens. The threat was postponed but it's always back. There's always another Death Star. If it ain't broke, beat it into the ground. As the expression goes, yes. Let's talk shop. This isn't even a discussion or a debate. It's kind of embarrassing to see the comparison between what James Cameron was able to do 10, 15 years before and what Jonathan Mastow did with more money at a later period of time from the look of it, the color grading. Everything looks like we're on like a sci-fi channel soundstage in T3. Everything about it feels and looks totally wrong. Once upon a time, children, James Cameron famously complained that Alien 3 screwed itself over by killing off main protagonist in the previous film. His words exactly verbatim. That's not true at all. But then he allows Dark Fate to do the same thing. Congratulations, Cameron. You just played yourself. Once again, Sarah was killed offscreen before the movie even started in T3. No one seemed to care about that. And aren't we supposed to be talking about the production? Sean, Booby, 2003 was a confusing time for special effects. There wasn't a lot of amazing stuff coming out then. Didn't Lord of the Rings, the return of the King come out that year? It had to work within the confines of its meager budget. T3 had almost the same budget as Dark Fate at $185 million. What? That's insane. Terminator 3 looks like it was made in the back of a J.C. Penney's parking lot. How does it look so bad? How the hell did it cost so much to make? $30 million just went to Arnold. I think they were paying him by the word. Well, try a different approach. Dark Fate is overproduced. It's too slick and polished. There's no grit on the bone. Director Tim Miller didn't know how to create the horrific side of the machines. So instead he just renders explosions and tosses out implausible physics all over the place. Did you just find a straw that you could confidently grasp there? At the end of the day, none of this matters. I polled my YouTube community last week and asked them which film was the best of these two, and they never disappoint. If history has taught us anything, it's that the voters always get it right. Let's find out who won, and I guarantee you I won't be upset. Well, Sean, you are 0 for 1 so far on this channel. Coming in dead last out of 2 is Dark Fate, getting only 38% of the votes, which makes Terminator Rise of My Pants the winner with 62%. Had these voters actually watched T3 recently and applied their criticisms of Dark Fate to that film? I can't imagine they have, considering I had a really hard time defending this after recently rewatching T3. I just hope we can all come together as a collective group and agree they're both better than Terminator Genesis. Not exactly a high bar. Sean, thank you for stopping by to debate. Make sure to check out his awesome YouTube channel Sean Chandler talks about for a bunch of great movie reviews and ranking videos. And remember, this is more than just reviews, this is movie feuds. Okay, and he takes my outro too. Awesome. He won't be back.