 Welcome back. You know what? Today is going to be so much fun. We're going to be able to dispel some myths about approaching and breaking the ice and perhaps getting some interest going on both sides. And this is one of the things that a lot of people get worked up about. We always hear about approaching anxiety from men and women and about the whole thing of now you're out and now you have to go talk to people. You don't know walking into the unknown. Why is that so scary? Well, we're going to talk about that today and I'm excited because once you hear about all the different components and see them for what they are, you can actually start to have some fun with the whole thing. And I'll be honest, approaching causes me some anxiety as an introvert. It is nerve-wracking. You don't want to be judged the wrong way. I know a lot of us have that fear of rejection. You put your best foot forward. You try to get a conversation rolling and much like you see on how I met your mother, maybe you get a drink thrown in your face like Barney Stinson. People have this idea that if I do this wrong, the worst can possibly happen. And today is all about showing you how being an engaging conversationalist involves being a good listener and paying closer attention with the other person is saying then it is worrying so much about what you're saying. Yeah. And before we start, I wanted to say a few things that allows everyone who's listening this to perhaps calm down about the subject and listen to it with an open mind and get ready to have some fun and think about it a bit. So because a lot of people who have social anxiety tend to think of themselves as broken. And that's just not the case. It's a temperament thing. Some people have a temperament for being social to put themselves out there. And that's great. And and they're lacking in some areas where the introverted people to put themselves out there is a terrifying and not only terrifying. It's a draining experience. And so we're going to talk about this because it's not about being broken. It's just a different temperament. And what's important to understand in all this is turtles are born turtles. Turtles. Once they're born, Johnny, once a turtle was born, it does turtle shit. It knows how to be a turtle. It goes walking through the beach, gets in the water and boom, he's doing turtle stuff. All his programming has been done. Right. But as humans, we don't get born and we're humans. There is a lot of learning and a lot of development that has to happen. In order for us to to be at our fullest and that is years in development. And in fact, when is our brains fully formed? Like at 25 years old, it's like finally fully set up. So there is a lot of development that has to go on in order for us to be fully functioning human beings. We're not just born humans. So that's why I always say turtles are born turtles. Turtles know how to be due turtle stuff when they're born. And depending on how you were raised will decide a lot and how you go about things such as approaching. So if you were born as an only child or you had some helicopter parents that kept you out of dealing with the other children in the playground, you had missed a lot of important development that lends itself to being extroverted and to put yourself out there in social situations. And last month, we focused on that first impression. And if you have a solid first impression, well, you've already started to break the ice, meaning you've already started peaking someone else's interest. And we had a fascinating conversation with Jesse Itzler about first impressions that he's made over his life. But first impression isn't everything. When it comes to having a conversation with people, we actually have to say something. And I know for a lot of us, it's scary. So we're going to break down exactly how to be that engaging conversationalist so that we're not running out of things to say. And the other person is excited to chat with us. So in all of this, we're going to break down all these points today and we're going to try to look at it in a way that allows us to have some fun with it. And I know that it could be terrifying. But had we made a good first impression, let's say that we went into the venue, we had a smile on, we had open body language. We're enjoying ourselves. We allow the atmosphere of that venue to wash over us. And now we're a part of that atmosphere. Then it's time to look to start having some fun. And of course, and in order to make our first approach, we want to see other people who were doing those exact same things. And if you've done the work on yourself to make sure that you're presenting yourself in a manner that other people would want to engage, you will be very good in picking out those people who are also exhibiting those things because they are interested in wanting to engage. They are now a positive blip on the radar as you are. And listen, at the end of the day, everyone is out to have a good time. Everyone is out to have fun, whether they're at that work conference or they're out at the bar blowing off steam. Our goal is to have a good time. That's what we're looking for. That's what we're chasing. So it is really important. This is the initial mindset we have to start from that we are having fun first. Now picture this, you're out with your buddies and some guy comes sulking over to you, crossed arms, barely making eye contact and says, Hey, how's your night? Are you going to look forward to that conversation? Are you going to look to engage with him further? Probably not. No, not at all. And quickly in my mental roller decks, figuring out the fastest and easiest way out of the conversation. It it feels like he's almost taking energy away from you, right? He's just sucking energy out of you. He's looking for a good time. And unfortunately, a lot of us, when we're out and about, we are that guy. We're coming over, setting the wrong first impression. And then because we're not bringing fun to the equation, we're not bringing a good time with our nonverbals and also our verbals. We're not allowing the people around us to be as engaged as they could be. And they're probably looking, as Johnny said, for that exit. So the way I like to think about fun, and I was just watching a promotion for the new family feud that had the Kardashians on. So apparently the family feud is still running. So hopefully this example will make a lot of sense to you. If we were to survey the audience, right? The host Steve Harvey says, all right, what is the one thing that people are looking for when they're out with their friends? The number one answer on the board, please. Well, 98 out of 100 would say fun. Have a good time. That's why we're out. And we talked a little bit about Adam Grant, one of our favorite authors of a great book, Give and Take. And he really delves deeply into this mindset of giving versus taking or matching and how important it is for your success personally to be a giver, be someone that is generous. So now we have these two ideas, right? First idea is everyone's looking for a good time, right? Steve Harvey told me number one answer on the board is fun. And Adam Grant told me, well, in order to succeed, you got to be a giver. You can't be a taker. Yeah. So we're arguing, let's meld those two together. Let's start things and let's make them interesting by coming in, having a good time already, not looking to take that fun from someone else. And a lot of people might be thinking about that was like, how, how do I show that if I'm feeling all the anxiety inside? And as we've talked about it in the first suppression episode, we're going to fake it till we make it. We're going to paste that smile on and we're going to work through this. And now what you will find is if you put on that smile, allow your body language to stay open and absorb the atmosphere that is that is being put out through the venue. You will find yourself slowly starting to enjoy yourself. It's just it's science. William James had posted how you how you move affects the way you think and feel. He had published that paper in the late 1870s. And science has been trying to prove him wrong for for hundreds of years from that. And it was not until the 1970s where science had not only was William James right, they also had the data to show that your brain produces the chemicals to back up those sorts of feelings. So that's where we're going to start today. We're going to fake it till we make it. Act as if. And I know a lot of us are getting hung up on the words, but it's not just the words. It's the delivery, right? If I walked over to you and I'm like, hey, how's your night? Versus, hey, how's your night going? I hope you're having a great one. That delivery is meaningful. Same words, different delivery. So when we're talking about adding fun and coming in with the mindset of having fun first, we're allowing the other person to feel that energy through the delivery of our words, along with that nonverbal signal from our first impression. That's going to allow the other people to get excited to be there with us. They're going to look to match our energy instead of feeling like we are taking their energy from them. So this all comes back to, once again, how you were raised and your development. And what's interesting about this is over the years, over the decades, it's changed how children are now being raised. I know that the millennials from what I've been hearing about and seeing in my experience is completely different than my generation, Gen X. And and we can we can credit technology to that because my my generation wasn't much different than my dad's. Just with a few more technologies that then computers came in and now that's rapidly changed. And what's interesting about this is my just in today's world. My dad had come to visit me a few months ago, as you remember. And we were out. I want to take him to Runyon Canyon. I want him to see Hollywood. Now, my dad had grown up in a rural Pennsylvania and he lives in a small town called Greensburg that I was raised in. And my my neighborhood isn't a very it's not a very big neighborhood. But we know everyone in that neighborhood. So if there's a car driving by, if my dad's outside, he's going to wave. He's going to say hello. Hell, he might even walk down and stop and talk to whoever is passing by. It's just his normal sort of day. Right. Now. He had come out to to visit me and we're walking up to Canyon and because of how he is raised and how he how he goes on about his day. He's doing the same thing as if he was home. So we're walking up to Canyon and he is stopping everyone like, hey, this is a pretty cool hike. What's going on? Are you tired? I'm I'm beat like just all this old dad jokes. Right. And I'm laughing because everyone has ear pods in and they're just like, what is this guy talking about? And of course, they think he's asking for directions so that people do stop and he has some quip to say and they're just like, OK, put back their their ear pods and rolling on and I'm laughing. And he looks and he goes, doesn't people don't people talk to each other in the city? And I'm like, no, they don't. And what's interesting about this is not only do people tend to state it themselves in a larger city and we could talk about that as well. But also with the technology that's going on, it's it's more and more common of of phenomena such as social anxiety and for people to not have learned these skills, such as making a good first impression or approaching people. It's not a standard of what you would learn of 20 years ago or 40 years ago. And, you know, it's I was laughing about that because I've now working in this industry, see it on one end. And also I had grown up where my dad made sure that I knew how to greet people and make that approach and and say hello. And technology allows that escape from human interaction. And when I think back to my childhood, we looked forward to the opportunities of hanging out and socializing with each other. And then as I moved through adolescence, then it became now I'm looking forward to hopping online and now I'm looking forward to using a different communication tool that's not face to face. So it is a bit of a lost art, this ability to have some fun around other people and look forward to that social interaction. Absolutely. And you know, it was interesting when I first started noticing this as I was becoming an adult, I didn't know it was going to continue to get worse. I just thought it was just odd and I never I didn't put much thought into it. Like, so as you mentioned, when you were young, you wanted to go ride bikes with the neighbor kids and play football games and pick up basketball games. All fun stuff that boys are going to go out and do. And just all the kids in the neighborhood, the guys, the girls, we were we were all playing games. We're all playing pick up basketball. And, you know, as I got an odor and as I moved into becoming an adult, I started to realize that when I'd be driving through neighborhoods, like, where's all the kids at? If you would come through my neighborhood when I was 15 years old, there would have been homemade ramps, skateboard ramps all over the street that we had made with about 10 kids from all over the neighborhood and getting cut up, hurt, breaking our arms, reckoning and stuff, terrorizing the neighborhood. And you just don't see that anymore. I mean, and what had happened is, you know, as parents, it got so easy for for parents to know that their children were in the other room playing video games that out, getting hurt, getting cut up, getting falling out of trees. Well, yeah, now we've got to dinner and we see parents handing iPads to their kids to get them to pipe down, right? Here's some technology, interact with this and have fun. So this whole idea of learning how to have fun with other people, I know for those of us who struggle with social anxiety, who tend to be introverted, fun can be a loaded term. And what's so interesting about your little anecdote about your dad is stronger frame dissolves the weaker one. Your dad is so comfortable with walking up to people that even in L.A., where that is completely uncomfortable for people, his strong frame of being comfortable, allow those other people to go, I don't know what's going on here. I'm just going to go along with that. Yeah, he looks like he knows what's up. Well, the other side of that, because of his frame and you could even say a bit of ignorance on his part, because he's not living here, that any of how he got treated in that situation from the people that maybe dismissed him or didn't stop. Did it bother him? No, his whole question was, what's wrong with everyone out here? Not had nothing to do. And I was laughing. I was like, well, dad, you know, it's not that sort of world anymore, but he doesn't care. He just doesn't want to know. And that idea of making those around us comfortable is going to allow that conversation to happen, right? People remember the way you made them feel and they're going to pay close attention the way that you're feeling. So today is a lot about getting comfortable in that social situation. And there is a myth that we want to bust. This myth that only men have social anxiety and that women, because they just tend to be more chatty with their friends, they can't possibly have the social anxiety issues that men have, which is not the case as we hear time and time again from our female listeners. How do I break through? How do I get over this anxiety is a common question. And, you know, our female coach, Aaron, who does the improv and works closely with the guys and does video work with us, we had just interviewed her and Suzanne and she led us in on that and was and had told us how much working with us that helped her work through her anxiety that she was having. And in that Art of Improv episode, Understanding Improv Principles that we had, we talked a lot about how if you are not used to having fun and being a little silly, improv is a great way to learn these skills of having fun and letting loose and not putting so much weight on your words. And it starts with fun. That's what everyone's looking for. That's how we're going to break that ice and get people interested in us. And it gets your foot in the door, right? That fun, that little burst of humor gets your foot in the door. And I remember ages ago, Johnny, we dropped some episodes on banter. These were some of the earliest episodes in history. Then we doubled back and went through banter again. Yeah. And everyone got so hung up on the banter cheat sheet and the words, the lines that were on there. You guys can't possibly say this stuff. There's no way this stuff works. How could you even walk up to someone and say those things? You know, and it's it's it's funny. I don't know where the hang up is, because when I think about banter, I just think of fun, amusing quips and conversation that two people can have that doesn't have any real content to it. It's just two people being able to communicate lightly without any weight. And what are they communicating? One, that they're having a little fun, right? Banter doesn't work if you're not having fun. Exactly. And two, they're comfortable with themselves, right? If you're willing to poke a little fun at yourself and tease the other person, then it shows that that sense of humor is going to allow the other person to feel comfortable and it's going to start that connection, right? It's the fertilizer in the beginning for that connection that we're looking for. Two things that I wanted to clear up in that for the guys who who get hung up on banter, I'd like to make sure that when we talk about banter and you using banter, does it mean that you're trying to pick up the person that you're using it on? In fact, we banter with other men. Yes. A lot of what you're hearing on the podcast between me and Johnny is banter is being a little silly, allowing each other to laugh a bit and not take ourselves so seriously. And for the girls who might get hung up on that idea that here comes this guy and he's throwing some banter my way. It's not because he's trying to pick you up because he's trying to be a social and is trying to allow two people who don't know each other, where there's already going to be tension and pressure to lighten the mood and be able to have a conversation without any weight to it. And what you're talking about is two people coming into the situation with preconceived notions about how things should be. Banter is not a flirting tool. Banter is a connection tool. It's how we get that ball rolling by not taking ourselves too seriously. Now, the thing about this that I think a lot of people again get hung up on is that the banter examples, the banter lines that we use are ridiculous. If you just read them with no context, you just see them as words on the page. You're like, how could anyone ever say this? But that's it. The connotation behind saying that is confident, right? If you could walk up and say some of the things on the banter cheat sheet, which we'll link below, you'll realize that there's a confidence behind that, that I'm not hung up on being seen in a particular light or being viewed in a certain way and the confidence to say some things that a lot of people don't have the courage to say, don't have the courage to take themselves a little less seriously. The other thing that banter allows for is it allows the other person without much pressure to join in the fun. And I think this is another misconception that a lot of listeners have with banter. They see banter as teasing put downs as taking and chipping away at the other person and knock him down a peg or pointing out something that's wrong with the other person. And that's not actually effective banter. Backhanded compliments and being negative and trying to tear the person down is not actually the mood that we're going for. And let's be honest, the people who feel good about using that tactic or using that as a way to break their way in to break the ice, they're using it because they're scared of rejection. So if they have this line that has a that's a backhanded compliment that swats the other person chips away at them, as you mentioned, they can go in there knowing that no matter what happens, I got him with this zinger. And that does not make you confident in being a high value person. It allows you to be confident in a low value manner. Banter is coming in, allowing the other person to have fun with you. Yeah. And when you come in looking to slight or take something away from the other person, you're actually not bantering. Right. And when we're going to get into exactly how to get to banter, the important thing to realize, again, a caveat from some previous episodes where people have written a sin with confusion is I'm also not asking you to be a stand up comedian. We don't need a routine. We don't need a Chris Rock set to banter with someone. It is allowing that smile to come across your face. And those improv principles we learned a couple of months ago to shine through, not taking yourself seriously. Banter is not a routine and it is not something that has to be scripted. What we're going to focus on in a minute here is how do we get that conversation started? There are moments when I start conversation with humor, but a lot of time I don't start conversation with humor because I am not a stand up comedian. Situational humor can be very difficult. So to alleviate some of the pressure you may be hearing of like, well, AJ, I'm just not funny. AJ, I don't have these witty zingers. We don't have to start conversation that way. Conversation actually starts with something much simpler. And these are baby steps, but it's simply taking some curiosity and someone else. And the way we can do that is in the form of a question, asking someone something about themselves. And Johnny, what's everyone's favorite topic? Well, it's themselves. Right. We could talk on this podcast and we have in episodes past for hours about ourselves. We're well versed in who we are, what we're about and what we're about to do. So when we are choosing to start that conversation, to break the ice, one of the most effective tools that we've found, scientifically speaking, to spark that curiosity and interest in the other person is for us to take interest first for us to showcase some curiosity by asking them a question about themselves. Like, what are you drinking? What do you like so much about this place? What's going on in your life? What are you up to these days? These questions all put a focus and emphasis on the other person. Who are they? What are they about? What are they up to allows them a very easy way to respond. So when we're thinking about asking questions to start the conversation, I want to make this important caveat that we're not looking to make these questions complicated and drawn out that require a lengthy explanation. We're breaking the ice by picking some simple, easy things for the other person to engage with us with. And here's the thing. We always know what we're drinking. We always know what we're up to. We always know why we're out, right? These are simple questions for the other person to ask. So we're looking for simple ways to showcase our curiosity or interest in the other person and in return, they start to take interest in us. So Del Carnegie has a quote that we use in the room. And it just brings true to be interesting. You have to be interested. You have to be interested in the other person that allows them to talk about themselves and also allows them to feel good. And it's almost a compliment in itself that you're looking to want to get to know them better. You're showing that interest. And here's the thing. I know there are a few listeners, because there are certainly guys on our couch and bootcamp who immediately in this section of class go, AJ, I'm not curious about people. What do I care about knowing about this other person? Why should I be curious about other people? I have no interest in getting to know them. I know Johnny's smiling because you've heard this too. I I I've heard it. And if if that's your question, there's some deeper issues going on. Well, curiosity has to be cultivated. And what I mean by that is, are you yourself personally being curious? Are you chasing down those itches? Are you trying to research and find things that you're interested in? Are you digging a little deeper? Or are you simply a creature of habit and routine who likes his chicken dry and overcooked like Johnny and with a side of broccoli? And you do the same thing every single day. Curiosity is a skill set. And the way that you start to focus on it is you have to start exploring yourself personally. So for a lot of us, especially the guys sitting on the couch who are like, I'm not curious. Well, it's probably because we haven't allowed an opportunity for ourselves to personally be curious to explore some things that we've been interested in, I found that the more that I start picking at myself and trying to figure out these things about myself, the more interested I become in what makes other people tick, what makes other people's journey so exciting and in exhilarating to them. So I think that it's too easy of a cop out to be someone who says, Oh, I'm just not curious. Oh, why would I care about the other person? And when you find yourself in that situation, taking a step back and saying, Well, what can I personally do to explore my own curiosity in myself? And what makes me tick is going to inspire you to be more curious in those moments. And everyone has got an interesting story about how they ended up in that position, where they are today. And that's a great place to begin that curiosity. And we heard last month from Jesse's story. People have fascinating stories when you ask the right questions. But when you only focus on yourself and you're ready to spew out your spiel about your story, people will not find you interesting. They will be turned off. Now, this is why we love starting conversations with questions. It's using human nature to our advantage. People are primed to answer your questions. In fact, we are evolutionarily designed to abide by social rules like answering questions when people ask us something. In fact, psychologist Robert Chialdini calls these fixed action patterns, which are these automatic sequences of behavior. Like when someone asks you something, we tend to answer. People don't break these patterns. And we see this when we're out traveling, when we're out on the street. If someone walks up to us and asks a question, we feel it. Inside of us that I have to at least respond to something, even if it's a no, I don't know, no, I can't help you, no, I'm too busy. We still feel that innate desire to respond. And it's difficult not to. I mean, you have to go out of your way when somebody asks you a question and they're standing there looking at you for you to stand there and just to give them the no or the silent treatment. And, you know, obviously, I think the women know this more than anybody for being hit on and being approached as much as they get. However, if you live in a large city such as Hollywood or Los Angeles, right, walking down the street, you you always get conditioned to put blinders on and walk down the street. But it's but you have to train yourself. It's difficult because that's not a natural response. Unless you're your dad walking down Hollywood Boulevard. He's he's just chatting up everyone. And here's the thing, right? This is really important as we're talking about utilizing questions to our advantage, tapping into that innate human nature. And we are actually having this conversation with our producer, John, before the show, we want to pick questions that lead to positive emotions. We are not looking to bond over the negative. People are only going to remember the way you made them feel. So if we're coming in with, what do you hate about this place? Why don't you like this? Why don't you like that? And we're focusing our questions on the negative or searching for the negative. We're actually not giving ourselves an opportunity to connect with someone else. They're in fact going to remember us through that negative emotion. And that is not going to work to your advantage. We had talked about this earlier in the first impressions episode as well, where if you're going to be standing against the wall and maybe you don't have a smile on perhaps it's a scow or just a not very pleasant face or closed off body language, who is going to see you as somebody who it looks enjoyable to talk to. That's going to be someone else who is feeling the same thing that you are like attracts like. And this is again, why that open body language is so important, right? If I walk up to you with my arms crossed and ask you a question. What do I look like the bouncer or a pretty judgmental asshole? Right? I look like I'm not even ready to accept your answer. I've already written you off. So understanding that our nonverbals and our verbals want to work to our advantage and not work against us. So that open body language allows for us to open our mind and gives us that opportunity through that question to really engage someone. And this quote is often misattributed to Maya Angelou. I know I have been guilty of it myself. But Carl Buehner said it best. They may forget what you said, but they will never forget how you made them feel. And feeling judged and feeling negative around you is the worst way to break that ice and start getting someone else's interest. Absolutely. And something that you mentioned there about perhaps somebody coming over with closed off body language, asking you a question. There's a small exercise that you do in class where on the first day with two people facing each other. And what does that look like? And of course, the two people who are facing each other feel a bit uneasy. But what does it say to everyone else in the room who are seeing that? Confrontation. Confrontation. And so all of a sudden that's an area that I want to stay away from. Those are two people that I don't want to have to deal with. I don't think confrontation breaks the ice in a good way. I think we can all agree on that. And that's why it's so important to keep things light and positive so that people remember you for the light and positive emotions. That's how we become charismatic. Now, why is breaking the ice such an important skill? Well, I know, Johnny, one of your favorite quotes is hope is not a strategy. Yes. If you don't have the skills to break the ice, then you're going to be stuck on the sidelines hoping other people approach you. Hoping other opportunity walks up to you. And that's not a very solid strategy. And here's the thing about it. And this is why I like talking about it. And this is why bootcamp is so fun. For everyone who doesn't have a plan, this this this idea of approaching random people at a bar or a social event or a networking event sounds terrifying, especially if you're a bit introverted. Yeah. However, if you could somehow get a plan together and perfect that plan to get good at that plan, then it could be something that can almost be fun. You can look at it. You can then measure how you're feeling. You can look at pieces that you can get better with. And then all of a sudden that it becomes it becomes demystified, but also something that you were able to measure. Absolutely. And when we're able to measure it, you get better. We can improve it as we learned from a much earlier podcast episode, the importance of measurement. And this skill set of breaking ice, as we alluded to earlier, is far more important than just with the opposite sex. This is all encompassing, whether you're out and about during the daytime. You need something from someone or you're in that situation where you're surrounded by some high value higher ups that you're trying to impress, it's going to come down to your ability to start that conversation, get the ball moving to your advantage. In fact, in work relationships, research tells us that between 60 to 80 percent of all jobs are found through personal relationships. And of course, we all know the importance in dating of being able to break the ice of not falling back on that hope strategy, but having an ability to see someone you're interested in and strike up that conversation. In fact, according to a 2,373 person survey conducted by Mike in March, 22 percent of 18 to 34 year olds met their significant other out in a social setting. So your ability to strike up a conversation, break the ice, is going to impact you both professionally and personally. And this answers those people who say, well, I'm not interested in anyone else. I'm not interested in being curious. It doesn't really seem to work out into my advantage. Well, guess what? You're going to end up unemployed and single. And I don't think anyone listening came to the show to end up with either of those outcomes, let alone both. Now, the second reason that this is so important, it obviously builds relationships. But talking to strangers actually makes you happier. We know and we've talked about this a lot that loneliness kills. Loneliness hurts your mental, physical and emotional well-being. And science says people who had social interaction, whether it's with a barista, they end up feeling happier afterwards. So even the smallest of social interactions with the service industry, people who are paid to interact with you has an emotional uplift, the ability to make us feel happy, which researchers conclude that although we often are reluctant to have genuine social interaction with strangers, we are happier when we do, which is why we see those beaming smiles on Saturday at the wrap up dinner on bootcamp. When you unlock these social skills in yourself, you have a huge uplift emotionally. You start to feel like you can take on the world. So we had talked about putting a plan together and we had already talked about that first point about making a great first impression, getting a wide window of opportunity. And now we're going to walk over there and get a question going. What have we got next? And I'll be honest, a lot of us, myself included, struggle in this area, too. And that's listening, right? Oh, boy. When we talk about listening, we're not listening for the other person to stop talking so we can interject something, which is unfortunately how a lot of us listen, right? We're kind of half listening. We're waiting for the pause. We're waiting for our opportunity because we've most likely queued up, but we're going to say next, but we're not really engaged. And the problem when we're not engaged or we're not fully present, you're actually showing the other person that you're not as interested as your question may have led them to believe. So what you do with their answer says it all. If you're not listening and you just ask a question of someone else and get that answer and don't utilize that answer, then they're going to start to write you off and they are not going to be interested in you. Well, and we also had the improv girls on a few episodes ago. And one of the main points was the answer is always in the other person and why it's so important to listen. And I don't know if this was this analogy was brought up, but I have an analogy that I use on Wednesdays when we're going back over video work and it's the baseball analogy. And as for guys, we get in our heads that we need to be witty. We need to be funny. We need to make this our first interaction with this person. We need to hit it out of the park. We need to be so funny and so witty that they can't help, but remember us for the rest of the evening and the rest of the week. And because of that, we get in our minds to perform, not got knocked us out of the park, got to hit it home run. And because so doing that, you end up asking the person question and then you go into your mind and you start roll a deck. And what's going to be the best, most funny, wittiest answer. And of course, every time they reply, it's never the answer you want it to be that goes along with your witty one liner. So then you end up asking another question. Right. And then they answer that one. And then we're like, well, that didn't go the way I wanted it either. Oh, I'll ask another question. But you can only ask so many questions in a row before the whole interaction collapses on itself. And why this happens and why you continue to ask asking these questions is because the minute you've asked, rather than listening to what the person has to say, you've went into your mind to try to find this answer. And had you been focusing on the other person, you would have heard what they had to say and you would have been able to take it from there. And it's never about hitting the home run. It's about getting on base. Just get a piece of the ball. Just get on first. If you allow that to happen, game is now being played and things will build and you will find that your wit and humor will have an opportunity to shine now that you're playing the game. And it's so funny to me that looking back over the last five years of my life that some of the greatest moments for me with real connection with someone else has happened when I've actually been out of cell phone service, when I'm not around my phone. And think about that for a minute. How many of us think we can multitask with these devices? I know Amy looks at me and rolls her eyes when I'm telling her that I'm listening, but I have my phone in my hand. It's impossible. We like to think we're multitaskers, but we're not. That power of listening and being fully present and engaged is evaporating. People are losing that ability. And when I think to the moment that I met Amy and I think to and Johnny, we were talking about this trip, a trip we're looking to potentially do with with our alone, going whitewater rafting in the Grand Canyon. So I met Amy in a Las Vegas swimming pool. What happens to your cell phones in a swimming pool? They're not a good combination. So of course, I didn't have my phone the whole day. I was fully present. I was present with my friends and I was definitely present with Amy that day and had great conversation. And then I went on this trip through the Grand Canyon, whitewater rafting with a bunch of entrepreneurs, two rafts of us, and there was an absolutely no cell phone service and half the trips on a raft anyway, where I'm about to get bounced out of the boat. You don't even want to bring it on that. Right. The phone was useless. There was one guy in the whole crew who had a satellite phone and everyone laughed endlessly at what the hell are you doing? You don't need that thing. So these two moments really codified for me this idea of, you know, we're fighting for attention with phones and other people. And then also this mind, this voice in our head that's telling us who we are and what we should and shouldn't do and what we're capable of. And all of this attention being spread out everywhere. It's very hard for us to be truthfully present and listening to the whole conversation. And when we say, listen, I don't mean just listen to the details. I'm talking about listening to the emotional context of what's going on here. Right. It's easy to listen to the logical context. And a lot of us are in analytical jobs that pays us well to analyze and listen to the logic. But the emotional context is that gateway to connection because we can use emotions and connecting on emotions to really truthfully build rapport. So when we say listening, I actually listen with my eyes and my ears. You should. And I get a lot of weird looks about this. Like, what do you mean you're listening with your eyes? I don't understand. What I mean is that when I'm actually in conversation, I'm making eye contact while I'm talking to really look at the facial expressions of the person that I'm talking to. So that I get a better sense for their emotional state and their responsiveness to my answer. So when I ask that question, I'm listening to the emotions on their face as I'm asking the question and then I allow the words to come through. So I'm getting the emotional and the logical context so that I'm far more present in the moment. And Stephen Covey said it. Most people don't listen with the intent to understand. They actually listen with the intent to reply. Think about that for a second. Yeah, we've all been guilty of it. Well, that's what I had made mention, right? You asked the question. You immediately go into your roll of decks because so you can get the zinger. And and. I just it's it's such an innate thing for the guys like I know I'm supposed to be funny at somewhere here and I need to start getting funny and I need to find those zingers. Those opportunities will present themselves. And when they do, it's going to it's it will be so much better than to try to force shoehorn something in there. And I know. People listening right now are like, come on, really listening. That's important for breaking the ice. I came here to know what to say. A conversation is effective when both parties are learning something about the other person and you can actually go back and forth to connect. The trick is in order to listen, you actually have to quiet your mind. Yes, you you have to not be so intent on searching for the next great thing to say, but instead being present for what the other person is saying. And listen, that is a quieting. The mind is something that we now have to figure out opportunities in our day to practice that I know for myself. When I just finished Russ Harris's book, The Happiness Trap, and Russ has a quote here about one of the greatest compliments you can give to another human being is to give them that your full attention. And one of the things in The Happiness Trap is being able to diffuse thoughts and feelings from thoughts and just let thoughts come past and how important it is. And this is something that in the past you had to do on it on a just all day. All right, you're on. But now with so much technology, anytime that you have a feel and uneasy feeling, you can submerge yourself into something else to not have to deal with it, which makes you bad at defusing those things. Right. So now that becomes something that is a lost art in itself. And so understanding how much that is missing from my life, I'm looking to figure out ways that I can run more in the mornings so I can have that quiet time, so I can have that mindfulness moments. And it's not easy. We've we've railed against technology. We know it's working against us and the attention economy is burning through everyone's attention. And a lot of us are on overdrive, right? I got to get so much done. How can I possibly be present in these moments? But when you think back to the greatest conversations you've had in your life, you've shared emotionally and the other person has received those emotions. And this is a concept that Dr. Gottman researches when it comes to relationships that last. So relationships that last 40, 50 years. And his research has shown that in relationships that last that long, that have that type of longevity, it involves partners who listen and respond to each other's emotional bids. And the emotional bid is when a person makes a bid for an emotional connection. They're essentially asking us to accept, acknowledge and show appreciation in their inherent value. And these emotional bids are the building blocks of a successful long term relationship, according to Dr. Gottman and relationships that are failing. Relationships that are full of resentment are when one party or both parties choose to stop responding to their partner's emotional bid. Well, how easy is it for people to miss emotional bids if they're not looking for them? If they're in their mental Rolodex looking for zingers to say, right, and this happens all the time. And what this is why video work is so important to our classes is watching somebody hear answers and then asking them that now I want you to find the emotional bids that were in that conversation that you missed. And of course, they didn't hear any of them when it was happening. And then, of course, now they've watched the playback and it was like, wow, I missed five and five emotional bids in one interaction. What they had teed up in their mind as a response they could never get to know. And that's that's the problem when we're not present. So listening is listening to the logical and emotional and responding to the emotional bids. So Dr. Gottman's research actually comes into play with starting relationships, right? These emotional bids prolong relationships. They provide the longevity. But we at AOC argue that it's also the genesis, right? We can't start a relationship without responding to each other's emotional bids. And that's just it. Now that we've asked a question and we've listened to their answer, we have to respond. We have to say something else. And a lot of us, when we're feeling nervous, when we're feeling anxious, we play the interview game. Yeah, the question train starts. We ask a question, we listen to the answer and then we just fire back with another question. What are you drinking? Tequila? Well, what brand of tequila is that Patron? How do you like your tequila? And as you can see, these questions, they just take information. So going back to our buddy, Adam Grant, when we are taking, we're actually working against ourselves. We are harming our ability to relate with someone. So listening to their answer and then responding in the form of a statement, a sentence that ends in a period. This is the pitching and catching of conversation that we alluded to to start. You can't just pepper someone with questions and you can't just come in there guns blazing, talking about yourself and not listening to the other person. We have to have a back and forth to get that conversation going, where both of us are disclosing and providing value to the other person. And as I mentioned before, we're putting these pieces in a place so that you can take them apart and find out where, well, you can troubleshoot them, right? So if I found myself going out in multiple times, I found myself approaching some people and things didn't go so well, right? What happened there? Was I listening? That I usually the first thing that we see most is the question train, what you just brought up. The other one that I want to bring up is just the plowing over the other person with a bunch of personal information because for the guy, he doesn't want there to be any moment of silence because in that moment of silence brings in self doubt. And what they feel is the interaction collapsing on themselves. So they're just going to blurt out and run over the person with just all this information, which doesn't allow the other person to play along. Both people should be working together on this. Right. I mean, the pitch and catch we're talking about is as we're aiming for around 50 50, where both sides have an opportunity to share. And this is our conversation formula at the art of charm. We ask a question plus their answer equals statement, meaning we are not responding with another question. We are responding with a statement, ideally a self disclosing statement where you talk a little bit and share. Now, what we love more than anything is allowing the other person to feel valued. And I know, Johnny, we've defined value in a few other episodes, but for the listeners who are just finding us for the first time, how do we define value? How can we allow someone else to feel value? Well, when we use that term, it means attention, approval and acceptance. So we give this other person attention. We're going to give them approval and their answers and acceptance for who they are as people and which is going to set up an opportunity then for some sharing back and forth. And that's why I love this conversation formula because we're piquing their interest by becoming interested in them by asking a question, showcasing some curiosity. We now have their attention and we have to listen again, giving them value, giving them our attention and respond in the form of a statement that takes their answer and showcases to them that we were giving them value. And the most powerful statements of all are we statements, W E statements, we statements. And what I mean by this, a we statement is what connects us. It allows us to find that common ground and it gives the other person an opportunity to feel that acceptance that Johnny was talking about. So we've given them attention and through the we statements, we're actually giving them acceptance by allowing them to feel like we're on the same team as if we're already friends already, as if we already fit together versus me statements, which are exactly what Johnny was talking about, just blasting the other person with your accomplishments, your achievements, why you're so special. So what I like to think of when it comes to a we statement is this us mentality and it doesn't have to be serious. Again, this was where that banter concept comes into place. Right. A we statement can be something as cheeky as, oh, well, we'll have our honeymoon in Mexico since you love tequila so much. That idea of we and us creates that acceptance that bond can start to form. And that's how we are breaking the ice and starting to get the other person interested versus a me statement, which is like, oh, well, I love whiskey. I love this brand. I don't like tequila. I'm not about that. Just plowing, just plowing over the other person. And there's a the third troubleshooting piece that we see a lot of is the negating of whatever the other person says. Oh, so what? So what are you doing out? I'm just out with my friend's bachelorette party. I hate bachelorette parties. Right. We hear all the time, Warsaw. It was the hey, so what are you drinking? Oh, vodka, cranberry. Yeah, I'm not a fan. And of course, the conversation. Where does it go after that? That's it. That's it. Johnny just gave two me statements, right? Those negative statements are still me statements versus a we statement. It can't be negative, right? A we has the acceptance built in. And going back to Robert Sheldini, we like people who are similar to us, whether the similarity is in our opinions, which obviously we know from Facebook. Oh, yeah. Or it's in our personality trades, background or even lifestyle. We like similar people. So if we can start speaking to our similarities and framing it as an us or we mindset through we statements, we allow the other person to feel that similarity and feel that connection. So now that we have the conversation formula question plus their answer equal statements, this works great in breaking the ice, but it also works really well in those moments where you've run out of things to say. And we've all been there. Conversations, firing on all cylinders. We're sharing everything we know about Tequila and our trip to Mexico, and we're really excited. And then shoot, I said everything I know about Mexico. What do I say now? And in those moments where you don't know what to say next and those moments where you're struggling to find the words, the easiest thing to do is to go back to this conversation formula that we use to break the ice and simply ask the person another question. So by buffering all of our questions with statements and proving to the other person that we are listening and engaged, we've started to gain their interest. And that is the power of the conversation formula. You know, one of the things that we see a lot and this is usually the case for guys. So as we talked about troubleshooting some of these things, things not going so well. We have the question train, right? We have plowing over the other person tends to drive up a conversation pretty quickly, negating with the other person says, and we'll have an anecdote for that. But the other one is you'll get some shared statements from the other person. And perhaps, as you mentioned, oh, I like to travel. I go to Mexico a lot and I'm also a surfer. And it's like, oh, I don't I've never been to Mexico or I've never surfed. OK, so I guess I don't have anything to add. So I'm just going to stand there and nod my head. Yeah, sounds pretty cool. And once again, we see the conversation collapsing on itself. And so what? You've never been to Mexico. And so what? You've never been surfing. You know what it's like to travel. You know the emotions that are involved there. You know what the emotions are of trying a new skill or a new sport and putting yourself out to a situation that is new to you. So you you do have comments or things. And what's great about this is those connections through emotions are much stronger than the than the connections made through the commonalities. And let's let's take both of those examples. I love them. Let's break them down. What we're talking about here, right? If I've never been to Mexico. Yes. And maybe I don't even travel very much. I know some of our listeners grew up in the Midwest like us don't have passports, haven't been able to travel as much. What does travel evoke for you in terms of emotions? For myself, it is definitely being in wonder, curiosity, interest, freedom, excitement. Yes. So let's think about some other times in our lives where we may have felt that emotion, right? For me, you know, and I feel free on the golf course. Yeah, because I'm out in nature and I'm free to do whatever the heck I want as long as I'm outdoors. I'm feeling free. So I didn't have to travel to Mexico, and I didn't have to negate them and go, I've never traveled there, right? I could say I bet those trips to Mexico have allowed you to have that feeling of freedom that comes along with travel. And I enjoy that feeling when I'm out in the golf course. One of the tricks that I've always used when if you haven't had that same experience is, you know what? That sounds amazing. I imagine it to be something as B, right? I imagine it to be this way. So those of you who haven't had that same experience, you are imagining those emotions that are conveyed in that experience and now there's the connection. And let's take surfing, right? Maybe you've never surfed or maybe you tried once and couldn't get up. Someone who's surfed. What do you think emotions surfing evokes in that? Oh, well, there's learning. There's failure. There's the whole try and try again, especially popping for the first time on that board. Also, there's freedom in that being out in the waves, drifting, basically being carried to where they're carrying you. And victory, right? The victory that comes along with mastering the ocean and standing up on a board. Well, how about the first pop that actually works where you get to move a little bit? So this idea, again, what we're trying to hone in on is we're not focused on the logical I'm not a surfer. I've never been to Mexico. We are zooming out a level and focusing on the emotions that are evoked in those experiences. And guess what? You've most likely felt that emotion. You've most likely felt a sense of victory. I know the last time for me I felt victorious is when I finished that talk I had on stage. I wasn't getting up on a surfboard, but I certainly felt victorious after the talk went well. So this idea of not negating because you haven't shared that experience and understanding that it is important to find the common ground zooming out, looking at the emotions, that's how we are gonna start that connection. And notice that in that position, okay, this person has traveled, they like Mexico, they've surfed, you've never done those things. A common answer that we see is the whole, well, yeah, that's cool. And you're like, I need another question. And they go, A.J., that's cool is a statement. That's cool, it follows the rule. I hit the conversation formula. Yep. That's cool is not a statement. What's cool? Explain what's cool. That's cool because if you fill in the blank there, you've made a statement. But just telling someone, just agreeing with someone, oh, that's cool, that's awesome, totally. I like that too. Those are not statements. That doesn't allow the other person to feel good adding anything to the conversation. And now that balance is out of whack, right? That pitch and catch is swung all the way into the other person's side of things where they are forced to carry the weight of the conversation. And you're opening up about how you felt in those situations and that you're sharing those same emotions. So we've opened the doors to some small risk vulnerability where now we're able to start building that connection. Vulnerability does not mean over sharing. It does not mean dumping everything out of the table and saying, oh, this is just me being authentic and vulnerable. Here's all of my flaws. Here's all of my baggage. All we're talking about right here is just getting the doors open so that we may venture into that area so that both people know that we're ready to move in there. And that's going to be a whole another podcast when we get into developing and connecting and putting rapport together. And I think of it as sharing one imperfection. It doesn't have to be every imperfection, right? When we talk about that baggage idea, vulnerability is just showcasing for the other person that you're human. When a lot of us, when we're trying to put our best foot forward, when we're trying to impress the other person, we tend to err on the showcasing how perfect we are or showcasing for the other person how awesome we are. Vulnerability can be something as simple as showcasing for the other person that moment that you've been human. We're going to recap this so everyone understands all the pieces that we put together and just how much you have to say in these conversations and break in the eyes. And what's great about this is, listen, this is going to be something new. We're putting ourselves out there. It's not going to go perfect the first time. In fact, it's not going to go perfect for a few times. However, with understanding how this works in these pieces, you'll be able to work through, measure your comfort and seeing how far they get. And you'll be able to slowly put more and more of this together as you continue to put yourself out there. And when we showcase curiosity around other people, engaging conversation happens. By asking questions, listening to their answers, responding with statements, we allow the conversation to flow and it allows breaking the ice to be a heck of a lot easier than a lot of us make it out to be. Taking some simple curiosity in someone else paves the way to those compelling conversations we're all looking for.