 Meeting of the joint. Oh, good work. Welcome everyone. This is the March 3rd meeting of the joint capital planning committee and seeing that we have a quorum. In fact, I think we have every member here. I'm just going to first check that everyone can hear and be heard since we are conducting this meeting virtually. I say your name, just say whatever you want to indicate all systems are go for off. Yeah. Pam. Here. Her. Here. Alex. Jennifer. Here. Mandy. And I believe that is our full committee. And at this point I'm turning it over to Sean, because he knows the order and I see that Gilbert mooring has joined us as well as Ray harp for several of the projects that we're reviewing today. Are you okay? And it's clearly here as well. Feel for you okay if I let Ray go first. He has fewer projects than you. Yes, fine. Okay. Ray, are you okay. Lead enough. I am. Do you want me to bring John Quello into the room as well. Yes, please. Okay. That will actually allow him to mute his, his zone. Maybe. There he is. You're in recording and so Ray the three projects. So I do have John Quello here with me. Our projects do affect Jerry Hill in particular. And so he's here as a sort of a support for those requests. So do you want to, I know you had three projects that you submitted Ray and I know there was a fourth that you might want to discuss today just as part of the whole capital planning process so you guys can kick it off with whatever ones you want to start with. Okay, I appreciate it. Sorry, we're trying to work on getting a new here. Are you are you guys right next to each other I can. Yeah, one of you mutes while the other one talks and you'll avoid that effect. Okay, how are we. I'm going to mute. I'm going to mute John while you start Ray okay. Okay. Okay, so I'm not letting me mute John though. I'll, I will turn john off, and I'll just pull him on when I need him to. And you're okay right now right there's no feedback coming in so whatever you did on your, your muted. Okay, so we have three projects, and we are, I think it's a request that we have to pivot a little bit I spoke to Sean already about it. Our requests are cherry hill related, and that's one of the reasons why I had john come over there. They are long term. They're long term plans to try and remove some of the, the pressure off of our operating budget at cherry hill, their plans to for for maintenance of the facilities and food and to make good on the fact that we don't have a large staff up on their, their things that we think are important as a public safety bed in one of them. And so I'd like to start with the cherry hill pieces. The parking lot, which, and talking with DPW I spoke with him was a key today about the, what the cost on that repaving the parking lot was up until winter fast. When we began winter fast it was, there was a, there's a large amount of damage to the mouth of the parking lot right on the entrance coming in, and potholes large potholes that were a matter of concern for the public that use it we're in the off season so the, so the we had a lot of golfers that use a space that we did have a number of potential skiers that we're using we had a number of number of people in the public and community that we're using it for the trail spaces. And so the, the, of the parking lot were issues for us, primarily this year and this winter because the, the John Cuolo and our maintenance group that, that manages the course in the off season and conservation that uses it when we have to move things in there that lot is still a major concern. And the lot we've basically been in process of trying to, trying to do patchwork repairs on it, consistently over the course of the last certain before I came in. The original, the original parking lot was was was instituted in 1993 and the life of that should have taken us up to, I believe 2001 2003 or so. And so the life of the parking lot, which was intended to be, I think it was an 18 year life on it, which would be 2010, it was an 18 year life on the parking lot before it needed a repaving. We're well beyond that right now. And the damage that we thought was was potentially going to be incurred on vehicles that were using it both ours and the public. It was a large amount of liability that the town needed to be aware of. And when I say part when I say that there were potholes in the, in the driveway if you'd been there, I think you'd see that they're, you know, they're basically craters in the front of the, we didn't we couldn't use the parking lot for winterfest partially because we were afraid of bringing public vehicles, bringing vehicles from the public into the space so we couldn't use the space if we can avoid using a space for public vehicles. We did DPW did invest and, and thank you Gilford who's here right now but thank you to DPW who right after that winterfest kickoff they did the, the temporary patchwork it was about $5,000 that was put into putting a temporary fill into the space and right now the feedback has been that it's been pretty good. We're hoping that we basically move past most of the deep freeze for the wintertime. But the springtime we know frequently will open up those holes again and there is a chance that we'll have to use patchwork funds to keep that space operable in the future and suddenly going into next winter. It's not as immediate I wanted to make sure that I mentioned that but the cost that the cost estimate of doing a full repavement is is in the area of $100,000. And that's before you look at ADA compliance, which is going to be a major, major piece making the, the parking spaces that are, are handicapped accessible to make to make it truly ADA compliant to make it truly ADA compliant is going to make I'm going to take a little bit more effort there. It's not as immediate as the fourth piece that I want to introduce here today, but the parking lot. I can feel any questions about that. When you get a chance to the irrigation piece, I think that we are going to end up pulling off of the. I apologize. I believe that we're going to take the irrigation request off of the immediate table also because we're going to try and speak with finance. Try and try and make that a, a request that we can work with finance to try and talk about putting a line in for irrigation because part of our part of our problem in that capital request is is the amount of the amount over budget we spent last year in our maintenance budgets and our grounds maintenance and our equipment maintenance. We had, we were we were overspent under budget overspent and and and the irrigation piece was a major hit there. That is also less concerned than the equipment piece that I want to bring John Quello in on. You've been speaking for the last week about trying to try to change our priorities here. And I don't know if this is a strange request. I don't know if this is requested that I can appeal to ask for here. But our most pressing capital concern right now, which puts those two in and on the back burner for us in the queue for another time. I'd be happy to talk about what those needs are in the future of our capital requests. But the top dresser that was part of our request last year. Our equipment top dresser for the for the Cherry Hill course for Cherry Hill maintenance. Our, our, you know, there's a there's a immediate concern that we are using equipment that is that is on its last legs, and is ill equipped to do the work that we're asking it to do. And if we don't get that, if we don't get that grant, then our fears that we're going to be spending a lot of money in the next few months to replace it. It takes a burden away from our maintenance. It takes a burden away from our, our staff or volunteer staff that has to come in and aerate the greens. The top dresser is a major piece of keeping that course up and operational. So I do want to bring Jack Wello in for this. So the, the, the top dresser item. That is being submitted for this year was originally. Well, it was part of last year's ask. And it was originally, I think, 2018 capital request packaged in with other pieces of equipment which we did receive last year, I used more and use utility vehicle. Top dresser unit is what we use as we're finishing off top aerating the greens, which is done twice a year. It essentially fits in the back of a small utility vehicle that we got last year, and is loaded with a tractor filled with sand. And it drives across the greens and fills in the holes that we created earlier in the process with sand. And when they felt when those holes fill in the greens are playable again usually takes a day or two. And that's part of maintaining the health of cutting grass at an eighth of an inch. So it's a it's a twice a year thing. The top dresser that we've been using, we would have not came with Cherry Hill, when the town bought it from the Maxon family in 1986, and is about the size of a poker table. And so it can't be loaded directly from a bucket of a tractor, the sand has to be shoveled in by hand which requires a extensive group of volunteers, and just about all afternoon. And we use that for a long time but we don't have access to the volunteers that we used to get for a number of different reasons. And, you know this thing could break its run on a chain and it could literally break anytime it's 20 plus years past its lifespan. And this new piece of equipment would fit right in the utility vehicle that we got last year it's run off the hydraulics and has the added benefit of being able to assist other departments in town. It was talking past years of the parks department perhaps needing a top dresser from time to time for an athletic field and soccer fields at Plum Brook. And this is certainly a small enough piece of equipment that it can be put on a trailer and transported to other parts of town to assist them if they needed something like that. So, you know, I don't know that they have an interest in it, but it would certainly be possible that that could be, you know, beneficial for them as well. So, Ray, could you speak to the cost for the, you may have mentioned it, but I would like to ask if there are any questions about any of the cherry hill requests. Well, that was my first question, Sean, I'm just right, could you tell us the cost of the top dresser, because we have a lot of irrigation but we don't I didn't see top dresser. So, my request is just, if we, if I, I don't know what the process would be here if there is an opportunity to do it. I would like for our cap request to take a backseat if, if possible, for the immediate concern of the top dresser. The request that we put in would, would be more costly than the top dresser and less immediately important for us. I could, and not having done is not, not having been a part of this process, it may be that the ship is sailed it maybe that it's too complicated maybe that that that there is not a way for us to do that right now we have to just time it or put in the queue or we can do finance about what we do, if and when we, we lose the service of the of this piece but I would like to be able to request that the JCP see be able to prioritize the top dresser. And let that take priority over other requests. Pam. Thanks. Maybe if someone could just clarify then the price of the top dresser, and then which of the, what, what are the actual four projects because we have, we have sheets for parking lot repairs at $20,000, but I just actually heard that a full number would be close to 100 or 100,000 plus. And so I'm just trying to figure out what the actual projects in whatever priority order but at least all of them. My apologies, the original number that we put in was based on the estimate that we had gotten that was in my notes from from prior years there was a $20,000 pavement reached out to DPW and they were doing research after the they were doing research for me to figure out if that cost was appropriate. If that if the $20,000 was cost was appropriate I didn't think that it was based on what John was telling me the cost of black topping the parking lot was. I didn't have in any of my notes just what that, what that, what the full repayment of the parking lot would end up doing the $20,000 would not my guess is that $20,000 that was requested before, or put in the queue before was probably put in to to put in a temporary fix was probably put in to do a partial fix of the parking lot but the concern that we have is that by doing that we're going to keep on doing that in a couple years and that that cost will keep on going. It was, it was encouraged that I look at doing a full regrade of the parking lot and we try to get that that cost estimate and it was, it was substantially more than $20,000. So, can I can we clarify which projects we should consider. Do you want to put in the full pavement project, the top dresser and what what were the other two projects that you, the irrigation you said you would the irrigation system. Those are other two items. Correct. And that's two items. The third item is the van. It's a is the department van. So those are the three items that we were that we were introducing here to the JCPC. I believe that we have already taken out of the out of the request, the signage. I've asked to have the signage removed from it so if there is a fourth one if you if you're referring to a fourth request. I asked to have the signage removed because that was granted last year. The fourth request I think she's include Pam's include in the, the one you just made the top dresser. So the fourth, the fourth request would be the top top dresser and that is that is emphatically our first concern. We can get by on the other we can get by on the other pieces if necessary but our first concern is a top dresser. How much quote that I just received yesterday is just under 15,000 for the top dresser. So that's a current number. You said 15 john. And I can put all of this into paperwork for anybody who is looking for I can I can submit this to you all as soon as tomorrow morning for anybody is looking for those updated numbers. Again, john has reached out and said that this is a capital concern that we put in last year. And, and I should have probably put it in this year also because it wasn't granted last year I didn't see in the queue. This was as a capital concern that we had from last year. And the concern is that the top person that we're using is going to expire right now is going to expire. Okay, I see two people on Irv and then for So it would be helpful just to know what your total capital request would be as a and be the top dress is an item for $15,000. When we were when you're considering your entire capital request, would you consider putting in there the leasing of that top dresser as opposed to purchasing our right. Those type of items are not available for lease. They're long term purchases that golf courses make the just so you're where they use equipment that we got last year the more in utility vehicle that would transport the top dresser were both made available as used equipment because they came off of lease from other golf courses and They were refurbished and sold to us as used equipment, but things like top dressers air Raiders. Some of the other very highly specialized pieces of equipment they're used on golf courses, generally aren't available for lease or even rent. You just have to, you have to buy them and you own them forever I mean you know this thing will last for many, many years. And, you know probably would never be replaced in this type of form again but yeah it's not it's not something that you can find on a lease. So, for all, and I think, or we did hear and I think Ray, there is a request you get back to us for each of the pieces and are some of them dropping off the list but for all, go on. Ray, just just for my notes just to be perfectly clear is your order of priority drop dresser irrigation driveway. And then you took off the van. The priority, my second priority would be the drive would be the parking lot. The parking lot. Okay. All right, thank you. That's what the caveat that that I understand that the cost that we're asking for is considerably more than what we put into the request for. If, if I had a order of need of urgency, the parking lot would be the second thing on that list. And that's the amount to be asking for right now for full, for a full scale of parking lot of repaving that cost would be $100,000, and that's substantially more than the cost there. Third thing would probably be the van. The third thing would be the the recreation van which is also a matter of if it breaks down and it's not that far away but if it breaks down, we are will be scrambling to try and to try and do some of our basic department needs. So it's trying to get ahead of the equipment and vehicles that are that are that are on their last legs we're trying to get ahead of the issues and not have to spend the money, because we didn't have it in the queue. Okay, thank you. So, Alex, his hand is up and Sean, I don't. I just, I just wanted to say, I'll work with Ray to send out we'll get forms submitted for the, for the top dresser and we'll update the parking one so that includes the full amount. And I'll send out an updated preliminary capital improvement plan that has those numbers in it. So you can see what the new sort of summary looks like I think there was one other adjustment we had to make as well so we'll put those adjustments into the, into the spreadsheet that you've seen so you can see what the new gap is for your deliberation a few, a few weeks. Alex. I guess questions slash comment dovetails with what Sean just said so, you know, we've got a top dresser for 15,000 repaving the parking for 100,000 department van which I assume is the Amherst rec rec van listed at 40,000. Yeah, well I appreciate you putting things off, you know, we'll be here next year having the same conversation right, and there are always cuts that have to be made so I guess I appreciate the prioritization, but it would also be helpful to know how far out like are we looking at this additional, you know, over $200,000 next year or could it be over two or three years or just give us a good sense of sort of what push there is and where it can go, because I think that, you know, if there's funding this year for something, you know, I don't know, I just want to have a big picture. Thanks. Thank you. Um, the top dresser is we can't wait, we might not be able to wait beyond the next couple months so the urgency there and the utility of it I mean I think that's that's a urgent immediate concern. The parking lot is, I don't want to, I'm reluctant to open the parking lot. If we didn't get that temporary fix and again thank you DPW for that I'm reluctant to open the parking lot. If we don't get some address somehow address the fact that that the public's vehicles that are plows and our and our town, our town vehicles are are in the line there, I think there's there's potentially a large amount of damage that comes from there and I don't want the town to be held liable. How long this happens in my conversation with Amy today, you know, we believe that we probably are going to need to have this. How long this last depends on how much it keeps and depends on the weather a little bit but we will be in a situation asking about that again next year. And if we don't have a fix on those holes, the holes that it get repaired they just got filled. If we are in bigger holes, if those those potholes in the lot are are opening up larger this year through this spring before we open the golf course, or certainly as we move into the winter, as we close the golf course next year. We're going to be in a position where we're going to need to have a dramatic fix there also. I don't think that parking lot can wait without investing a lot of money in these $20,000 fixes without putting $5,000 here $5,000 here, or, you know, however we've been managing to fix those pieces on a lot that's 30 years old. I don't think that that parking lot should be opened if we are dodging potholes like we were this past year. And so, in that, in that situation for timeframe. That could be as early as this spring if we have a frozen spring that could be that we're sitting in here and in the winter time we start back up and talking about how, you know, there's a forbid that we have some damage to something beforehand that that a car that comes in hits a hits a hole and there's damage they that they asked for conversation from the town on. And that that is, I think that's the urgency there how long does, how long does that, the life of how we have this timetable set up how long is that last, it could be a year there. The irrigation piece is one that I think john and I have talked about for a while about putting it in as a way of managing. It's, it's more concerned because it manages the amount of spending we have to do. We know we asked for a lot of the budget is we were overspent there, because, because we have to spend so much money on on irrigation on these pieces that would be fixed if we spend right now, if we spend that money and, and try and take care of these pieces, the labor that we put into it, the service that we bring in to do this, the amount of time and energy that we put into it, that could be spent someplace else. How long does our irrigation last the way it is john, how, how, how, what is the life of case where we're repairing something we're basically replacing something how long does, does the cherry hill irrigation system last right now. It was installed in 2000, between 2000 2001 with a 25 year lifespan and we're at year 23. So we're, we're starting just, we're starting to see the effects of components wearing out my, my major concern is that the pump motor itself or the pump, which just, you know, takes the water out of the pond and puts it into the system. If that fails, then all the rest of it is, it's not functioning and we don't have water we don't have a golf course. So, you know, we've been, I'm meeting with different representatives from different companies that handle these components to try and get a plan together where, you know, a phased in replacement upgrades could happen where we replace certain components one year, the pump another year, other components a third year. So I think that businesses would not try to replace an entire irrigation system in one season. Obviously a new installation is a different situation but we have a system, and it does work. Most of the time, but it's something that we have to be, you know, we have to have the discussion because the days of it, starting to work less and not work more are coming up. So I'm just trying to avoid a big sticker shock situation when we get to a point where we start having more failures and successes with it. What's worth noting is that the pump the engine there is also where our hope was that that would be able to align with the college with the town's sustainability initiatives. It's currently fossil fuel burning right and we would look to replace it with something electric or some other option. But I'm just going to, Mandy, I'm just going to add on to something was discussed that I'm calling you on the parking lot, Sean. Could we get an estimate of whether we could continue to do patches $5,000 patches and the reason I'm asking Ray, I mean I know what the parking lot looks like. I mean, when you come north and turn right to go up monarchy road on your way to the park to Cherry Hill, you'll notice that there are regularly orange cones there and then they're removed because DPW fills the hole. And a year later, the orange cone is back, and then we fill the hole. So what I'm thinking is that some of these repairs, they do last, rather than doing the whole parking lot so I would just like an estimate that what is what is there less than 100 and then my other I don't need it answered now is, I think we have a machine but I got different that can actually cut a deep hole and plug plug a pothole, but it's hard to do it in the wintertime so I'm just looking for something nearer to the $20,000 and how much could we get for that that isn't a pure waste of money, rather than doing the whole parking lot, because I also think if we can keep it level it's a pretty level parking lot and golfers don't mind pulling their carts across gravelly they don't need a full pavement. They don't want potholes. So I just would like to have a closer look at that number before you just change it from 20,000 to 100, you know, when you come back to us on what could we do. Yeah. Mandy. Thank you. It sounds like you believe some of these capital requests are very urgent. And so I guess my question isn't necessarily for you versus Sean, you know you're talking about a top dresser that sounds like it gets used twice a year probably one towards the spring and one towards the fall. That might not last this spring, but we're funding starting July one. And so a situation where the funds don't come through for say a the parking lot or the top dresser till July one, are we looking at a situation where we might not be able to open the golf course until the parking lot is done or what would happen if the top dresser isn't there and if some of that is the case where we're looking at not being able to open the course until this is done. Is there money in this year's capital budget or excess that some of this could be done through this year's budget. And that's this question for Sean but are you really seriously considering not being able to potentially open the golf course I guess would be my question for the two of you. I don't think either item would keep us from opening when we're going to be able to open which up until a couple of days ago I would have thought might have been at the end of March but still might. The top dresser is well past its lifespan and with any luck we'll get through one more aeration at the end of April with it. The worst case scenario is that I didn't aerate the greens, if it failed. When we test it before we use it and and that's, that's not an ideal situation by any means because that leads to, you know, loss of turf health and diseases and we start losing grass. You start losing grass on the green to start losing customers so you know that's the situation that, you know, can be avoided if we can just, you know, get a new one in here at some point. So Park and La I think has been hanging on for dear life for a few years now. And, and I guess thanks to DPW coming up and helping us out a couple different times with various levels of patching. You know, it's it's functional it's usable but it's, it's where I think we're at the point where you know do we want to keep asking for patching and repairs. And again, I don't know what the cost of those are that's that's something that Guilford or Amy could address. You know, are we are we throwing good money after bad, I guess is what I'm thinking on the parking lot. I, you know $100,000 for a parking lot is a lot of money I get that. And there might be some alternatives to complete black top that would, you know, solve the problem and come in under that big number but you know I just I don't I don't know what those options are. That's more of a DPW question I think, but I don't believe either one of those situations would keep us from opening when we're supposed to. Can I ask just one more fact finding, does Amherst College have anything we could borrow, or does UMass have the ability to help us out on this in terms of equipment so those I don't need answers to that now they they do an entire turf management program at UMass, where they're teaching people so they, including teaching people who are going to go out and manage golf courses. So I don't know how often we look over there to see whether there's some in kind help we might get. That that's, again, I don't want that answered right now but it's looking at a way of taking some pressure off us. Thanks. And to Mandy your other question. We do have the sort of leftover capital fund where if we needed to appropriate something before July one. We could itself to go through the appropriation process but it would be available before July one. So I, not seeing any other hands so I want to thank you very much. For all you do out there, it was an active season last year as far as I could see. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Ray. Thanks, John. No problem. Thank you everybody. So, Guilford, our DPW superintendent is here as well and he is up next to talk about DPW capital. Morning. Well, good afternoon. We have a lot of stuff do you want me to go through each and every item or do you want to just ask questions. I would do a quick overview of each of them and then we'll do questions at the end. Okay, so there's certain things that we do every year. One of them is our right now is our transportation plan we take about $50,000 we put it aside to help with a transportation project that we're working on. And this most of this money goes towards surveying work or doing traffic studies or gathering the information we need to actually make a make a response to something. So that's what this is for. The stormwater management program is sort of the same thing except that it's required by federal law that we do certain permit things every year. Right now we're doing a lot of sampling and building a database of what the pollutants are in our stormwater discharges so all the pipes you see around town. So we're going to charge usually into a stream or to a ditch and then we've been going around and sampling and categorizing what those pollutants are, and then we'll come back at some other point and do some bigger projects to remove those pollutants. So that's what that plans is. Next is there's $200,000 for sidewalk repair around the town. Last year we did a section of Amity Street, we did some work around the school, the high school, and just some general repairs downtown. We do try to concentrate on the downtown and connecting the downtown to possibly schools and working around schools. We choose the easiest projects first. If a sidewalk doesn't meet ADA requirements, we are going to skip that sidewalk unless there's a really, really pressing issue that we need to address. Because if the sidewalk doesn't meet ADA requirements, we have to go through a process with the architectural review board in Massachusetts to get permission to make it and put it in a place so it's because it's not meeting the requirements. So those just take a little more work and we tend to put those off to the side. We'll probably continue our work. Right now we, for the upcoming year we already have contracts in place we're going to be doing Kendrick, sorry Kellogg Avenue, and we're going to be north doing North Pleasant Street and putting new sidewalks and putting new sidewalks and over there and we have a list of other ones that are coming right behind that but they're not on the top of my head right now. The next is a half million dollars for road resurfacing. We take that and we add it to the road resurfacing we get from Chapter 90 and we resurface roads. We have a contract going out soon, a bid going out soon to do West Palm Roy Lane and the eastern part of Palm Roy Lane. So that would be the Palm Roy Lane from Middle Street back to about Carriage Lane. So those are the two we have and then we have another project that we're putting together. We'll have two bids this year. The second bid will have a bunch more smaller stuff in it, more residential streets as well as one or two major streets. Bill, can I interject for a quick second. So in the plan you'll notice that we put a million dollars into roads. Originally we were developing the plan we were targeting 500,000. But moving some things back and looking at some different pieces of the plan we were able to bump it up to a million so the project request in your packet is for 500,000 but the actual proposal is going to be for million dollars and as you all, well, most of you all know, we could put 6 million dollars into roads and it would not be enough. So it's just putting more into roads. And then the other thing, Guilford, I'll just say you can still cover it when you get there but just so you're aware. In case I forgot to mention to you is the North Amherst intersection, we've put that into the planning bucket not on the plan yet but into the the list of projects that we're, we're looking for funding for if you're going to cover the North Amherst intersection. Yeah, that's the next one on my list. Okay. So we did ask for $450,000 to start the final design and plan for this intersection at North North Amherst. The one issue that we're going to have a problem. Well, the one, it's not a problem. The one issue we're going to have is that this is a project which covers state owned property, state owned roadway and town on roadway. The requirements we have to meet that we don't normally meet when we do a town, a completely town owned piece of roadway. The state likes certain things prove into them a certain way and we have to do it that way so it just costs a little more and that's why you might think this number is a bit high but this is for the final design and final layout of that project. The next one on my list is the chapter 90 funds which is about 841,000 those can only be used for road repairs. They cannot be used for road maintenance. So if you want to talk about potholes, I can't use any of the chapter 90 money for potholes you can only use chapter 90 money for road repair which is a crack seal and overlay reconstruction and intersection and those type of larger, larger types of project. You can buy equipment with this but we haven't bought equipment with chapter 90 money in a long time. On the cherry. I don't know if did you hear the question about cherry hill earlier about would 20,000 be sufficient to do a good patch and repair job filling in potholes there. Not but not doing a full resurfacing. And what might there be without that approach. I know we did an estimate for cherry hill and I do not know what the estimate was right I think so it was around 100,000 was what he came back with. So, all our all our estimates are based on mass highway numbers. So when you get an estimate like that that's that's the most consistent that's a very conservative we tend to be conservative we don't like to come back and ask for more money when we do a paving project so it's a very conservative number. Can you do a little more with less probably, can you do a good job with 20,000, maybe not. The other two projects on the list for the non vehicle projects is the field maintenance equipment or sort of different, I think a few different requests within the full project request for field maintenance equipment, and then tree removal for 20,000 and one other thing I'll just mention that we added is we've modified that to be tree removal and also tree planting. So it could be either or give that capital request a little bit more flexibility. Do you want to talk, do you want to speak a little bit more about the field equipment and where that equipment would be primarily used and sort of the rationale for that one. So the field equipment, you'll see there's two requests there's a $230,000 request and there's a, it should be a $76,000 request but is that what you have what do you have for the second one. I've got a 230,000 a 30,000 and a 55,000 of the three pieces I have. I can tell you what those are. Yes, that's how I broke it actually got broken down three ways. Sorry. When the discussion was being had about community field and high school track and a turf field versus a grass field. And it was pointed out we did not have the equipment to maintain grass fields to the level people wanted. We came up with a list of what we needed to do that. So it's broken down and what's immediately needed. The next phase and the third phase of what's needed. So the $230,000 is what's immediately needed. If we want to maintain all the fields around the high school middle school and community field at a level that will that a level that was described during those meetings about the high school turf field. That includes some of the equipment that the golf course was asking for, but it's much bigger equipment than what the golf course asked for actually because our prices are almost twice as much for their equipment because it's obviously I don't know what they're asking for so I shouldn't probably talk about there's they're just asking for a top dresser for the green. Yeah, so we're looking for a top dresser for the whole field which is a much larger piece of equipment. Could it be used for a grain? Could it be used for a grain or is it too big? It's too big. It would be very interesting to watch it do a green. That would be kind of a good YouTube video. It would destroy the green while it was doing it probably, right? It would just be funny. We could probably make, we could probably make some aside money off of TikTok or however it is YouTube, the YouTube guys make money. Yeah, we could probably make some. So feel for one question that came in was, is that equipment going to be used anywhere other than the regional fields and community field or is that where the majority of its time would be spent? The majority of its time will be spent on those fields because those are the fields that they want to be a certain level of playing. We would use them on all the other fields we have in town because once we have the equipment we would definitely use it to improve the conditions on those other fields. What we're asking for in the first group of equipment is deep, deep time aerator, a top dresser, another mower. This mower is meant for the type of condition they want that grass to be in through a field groomer and a broadcast spreader for grass seed and fertilizer. And there's also, there have to be a piece of equipment to move this equipment with. There'd be a prime mover such as either a tractor or a tool cat. We're leaning towards a tool cat, which is a brand name, not just a plain, not just a regular tractor. So that's the priority one group of equipment we're asking for. And it is it is a little bigger than what you would see on a golf course because it is meant to cover a larger area a little more quickly and speedily. Thank you. I think you're aware of this, but just so everyone knows there's other investments going into the fields up there. I think the regional schools also requested a well. I forgot exactly what it's called but something to help with the watering of the fields was part of their regional capital request this year. I've heard about that and we're not. I don't know much about that. It's actually a good hope if you can get a well that will actually give you the water you need that would be really a great addition. But if you can find a well with that, if you can get the water at that spot to give you the output you need is, I don't know how it would work. We haven't really looked at it, haven't been asked about it either. Do you want me to keep going or you want to ask some questions. Why don't we stop here because we're done with the non vehicle request when we stop for questions now and then you can do vehicles after. Do you want me to call on people Kathy Farah, do you want to go. Yeah, just a quick question. Do those fields include Plumbroke, or is it just the fields around this, the high school in the middle school. So the primary the primary place of use would be the high school fields around the high school middle school and community field that we would eventually use it at Plumbroke. Kiwanis field, Plumbroke Kiwanis field for when the Fort River fields are put back together we'd use it at Fort River. And that's it. Okay, thank you. Jennifer. Let me just keep up with what Guilford saying and what the attachments are in our packet. So I see field maintenance equipment phase one and phase two, but you said there was a third one. What's that one. It's actually probably called leaf collection equipment. Leaf collection equipment. Is it. Can someone point me to what the file name is called in the packet. So the, I submitted under leaf collection equipment, the collection system. Let me just take a quick so we have, I think it's turf vacuum, does that sound. Okay, possible go for turf vacuum. Field maintenance equipment phase one field maintenance equipment phase two and then turf vacuum. Okay, and did we just talk about one of them or did we talk about all three I'm sorry did we were just talking about phase one. We just talked about phase one. Great, thank you so okay so I'm Guilford you said that you took in the input that was given at the various public meetings about the, the state of the fields in the context of talking about the high school track and field project. But like, I mean, is there like a master plan for the maintenance of these fields, or I mean I'm, I'm hoping that you didn't just like hear people say things and then like come up with a plan as opposed to like. I don't know having some intention with coming up with like a master plan to, to, to maintain all the fields, as opposed to just just hearing what the people happen to say who happened to give public comment I just want to I'm just asking if like, there is some intentional planning done as in terms of what those fields actually need, as opposed to like what we may have heard in public comment. What we did is we took the comments and what what people express they want the level to be of those conditions of the surface. And we came up with a plan of what you would need and how often you would need to do it. There's actually two more pieces of this turf management plan that is not in the capital plan because they're not capital items. And there's about $63,000 increase in the operating budget to pay for materials such as fertilizer, sea, sand, water, chemicals, and some other things that would be needed to also maintain these fields. There's a staff staffing request because it's going to take another person to probably maintain it at the level they're asking for as well so there's, there is a bigger plan, there is more thought put into this and it's just not a bunch of capital request. It's a capital, and it's going to be a continuing maintenance operating request and a continual personal request to make this work if it's going to work. Okay, I'm maybe I'm thinking of it wrong or I don't want to harp on the same on the, on the, I want to harp on this one thing but like, was there input, did you get input from the superintendent or the field's athletic director about the about what what the schools would like to see in terms of the state of the fields I mean that you know the people who gave public comment they have they have valid, you know, needs and concerns of that like, I don't know I just I wouldn't want to see decisions based on what was heard at the public comment from the people who happened to speak, as opposed to like talking with the schools and the, as I said the superintendent and the athletic director about what they see the needs are and what state they'd like to see the fields in. So, Adam, who is our fields for men and I once know who's the director of that division he talks, they talk. A great deal with Victoria who's the athletic director at the high school and they pretty much put this all together. Victoria confirmed what they confirmed the level they wanted to have. And the three of them kind of talked it out. And this is what came out of those discussions. And just building off of that, there was the plan for all the fields where every field was looked at and every single field, regardless of whether it was an artificial surface or a natural grass surface, every field needed improvements and needed additional maintenance and equipment to support that maintenance. Sean, are you going to do the call. Oh yeah sorry Kathy, go ahead. Okay, so I, I'm going to stay on fields right now but then I want to come back to roads. So I just on the fields. I think it would be useful to get a little bit of a narrative with this set of pieces that addresses what Jennifer just said you know that there's an operating cost side so that there's a plan. I mean we might be able to capture it in excellent minutes and notes and we can put it in our report but just a little bit more on what's being thought and the vacuum and leaf remover because my initial thing was how much of this was for the artificial turf as opposed to grass anywhere you know we are we adding costs because we're expecting to have an artificial turf. If not, will we need something else if we have artificial turf so I would just like something that's a little bit more. I'm thinking about just over the next few years, what we're going to need. And then my second question is when I asked of Ray about the golf course. UMass Amherst but UMass Lowell does turf management does a whole lot of this. Do we ever use their resources in terms of when I called them one of them up they said they came over to Mill River and the Mill River operation area and gave some advice and those actually those fields work quite well for I mean their baseball fields but so I don't know whether we ever use that but I think a memo that ties this together Sean would just be useful to have both in the packet in the background when we do a report. Because otherwise it seems like a lot of pieces without a hole, and I'll come back on my road questions. If you could ask, if you want to ask your road questions now. Okay, so, so several road questions one, you quickly talked about $450,000 for North Amherst designed. I'm not in anything that we have on a list right now unless I completely missed it I know it was there last year. Sean was it not in the planning list maybe that was. Did I just. Okay, so, so I have the same concerns I had about it last year that I don't know whether we have a plan for what we want up there so I don't want to design before we have agreement on what the design is so the discussion on is it around about is it something else would be very useful. We had resident requests around and Mandy is not here right now but she had asked this so I'm asking for we had resident requests that we're talking about some speed bumps on Harrison Fisher, a crosswalk, and those were the big ones and a flashing light on speed down in the other. I don't know whether you took a look at any of those on the speed humps, as opposed to bumps on the people who bypass the light by going through Fisher and Harris, and that's basically happening, and they zoom through they don't go slowly through. So, Sean you would indicator we might be able to get a reaction from Guilford at this meeting and if not I would like a reaction, some thinking about about those resident requests there were, there was a cluster of them. Yeah, I still have that cluster of resident requests I need to go through. My personal, I'm going to say this once and then you guys can ask me questions about if you want to, but making crosswalks that don't tie things together is not really is not really thought of being a good way to do it. And when you have a request for residents who just want to crosswalk to a sidewalk from nowhere from a side of the street doesn't have a sidewalk. It's really hard for us to justify the crosswalk, even though people walk in the street and then cross the street. The rules are such that you're supposed to go from a crosswalk cross across and then go from a sidewalk across the street and go to another sidewalk, there has to be somewhere to go to. We keep we've been overruled several times by town council and other people. When we make this recommendation but our recommendation is always going to be the same as that no you should not have a crosswalk that goes to nowhere because technically someone who's disabled can file a complaint against the town, because we put aside a crosswalk to nowhere. So that is a crosswalks speed bumps. I'm just going to give my general speed bumps traffic, I'm going to give my general comment is those can go in, but then are they really needed. And are they really in the best places in town and are we really willing to put them everywhere in town because once you just start putting them in because people request them. And there's no guidance on. There's no guidance on them. We're just going to put them in and that's the same with flashing crosswalk lights and speed back display signs everyone seems to want them because they're the latest thing. We're willing to actually pay $12,000 a set for the flashing lights at every crosswalk in town we have lots of crosswalks. And does that then make that flashing light less. It's not coming to my head less useful because they're everywhere. The purpose of having different types of signage and different levels of signage is so that you create an area where you know if you see this one. It's a much more dangerous area much more. It's an area to be safer. It raises the expectation. If we put the top of the line everywhere, everyone will expect the same to see this top of line requirement or the most usage and if there's not that usage, then people will start ignoring it. So those are my three comments about those and you can. It would be useful. I think if you actually looked at them because at least one of them tried to address the crosswalk to know where question. So, maybe we can get that next time Sean. And, and we had raised the Alex actually raised speed humps there are other places where we bypass. Do we have any kind of larger plan on where might we do them when might we do them and a vision. So, I think the, I think the proposal from the resident requester was for the crosswalk to go to a on street walking path. I think was what doesn't doesn't meet ADA requirements right. Okay, so then my then my last piece and Pam, on the actual roads you, you put in which streets you were thinking of doing with the road money, whether it's chapter 90 or our other. I'm not sure how you came up with those streets but I had two questions about them and then also a comment one. It's the ones downtown that are being heavily used right now by big trucks as large buildings are being built the new apartment buildings that are going in. Do we ever asked the developer to share that because my observation is the roads get chewed up when the building is going on and then we're left up with a chewed up road. So that's just a piece on that and then the road repair coming out of town coming up on North Pleasant is heavily used by UMass. All the apartment buildings do we ever get UMass to help us with road repairs where a lot of the vehicle use is back and forth to UMass so those are questions about that. Could we redirect it to residential areas because we're getting a lot of requests from people in residence who would like to know when and if their road which is becoming impassable goes on the list and could we make more of an effort to do smaller streets that are in residential areas so I don't know. I know you've got a priority list in an internal but I just wanted to raise those two things that I saw which were on the list that are coming out of town. And the developer impact of large vehicles, I mean construction vehicle level. So that's the end of my comments. Sorry to Sean said me hit hit hit all of them while I've had to have the mic so. So we that we base our paving list off of the pavement management system we have, which surveys the roads every five years. And then we put in the roads that deteriorated faster have additional problems we add those in as well. Excuse me, so that's that's the basis for what we do. And then there's there's things that happen, and they have to have to move around because something happens for the development if we know developments coming and we know we're getting ready to pave the road will wait. We've never. There's no mechanism that I know of or that we have in place for asking people to pay more. There's no like development impact fee or anything like that for roads that doesn't exist right now I don't think I don't I know it doesn't exist. So those never get done. Thank you, Mass to help sometimes but there's not like a, there's not like a dollar amount, but they'll, they'll do some, they'll say you know hey this would be a good cool project and I'll say well what do you think and next thing I know I have plans on my desk of how to do it. So they'll do things like that but they don't like give us like a check that says this is for road use or so forth. Thank you. Pam, sorry to hug the time. I think I think some of my questions to get answered in some of those. I want to start back with the playing field, and I understand that the town DPW that equipment staff, etc, does contribute a fair a lot they they manage all of those fields for the regional schools. And I wondered if there is some percentage of the cost of us providing equipment staff that the school that pays us back for essentially. And then a second question is related to field maintenance, is it, is it the lack of staff that has not allowed us to maintain the fields, you know, up to up to snuff, or is it the lack of equipment. You know, which chicken comes first, and maybe we just stop at that. And then and then I'll go to my road question. Go for do you mind if I start quickly. Sure. So in terms of the first question. So in here in Guilford and again we're sort of entering through the middle of our budget process. It sounds like the equipment, the materials and the staffing are sort of a package deal when it comes to these field improvements. So, I think this committee, considering it from a capital perspective makes sense, but there's going to the town manager has to consider the operating impacts as well and whether there's the ability to fold those things into the operating budget for next year, which is very tight at the, at the current moment so I think just keep that in mind that there's this piece which is the capital side but the operating side comes out of a different pot of money, which also has to be fit within the allocation that's there. And then whether the schools will pay for it. If we were to make a sizable investment, like this, I think we would certainly look to set up some sort of fee for service type arrangement when it's being used for the regional school fields because I do get the, I've heard a couple times a question about why should the town pay for this if it's being, you know, used to support the regional schools and the other member towns contribute as well. I think that's a valid question and concern. So if we do move forward with this type of investment, it would only be if we get, you know, sort of reach an arrangement that we feel comfortable with with sharing the costs, at least on an annual basis when it's used to serve the fields. Also, so sort of the follow up question is, if we bought the equipment but didn't buy the new staff person to do it, would we have any improvement in our field. Yeah, but it sounds like if we don't have the purse, you know, the staffing to operate the equipment, the way you're, you're planning and we don't have the materials and supplies to that go into the equipment. It's not going to be as effective as you're hoping for. So one of the things that the DPW has done very well and we've actually realized has been pretty much a detriment to us is we make things happen. So if the goal is is that field levels improve, and we don't get all the, we get all the equipment and we get the materials but we don't get another person to do this. What's going to happen is is that we're not going to do some persons can be cut from somewhere else and we'll spend more time doing the fields because that has been in our and until we're told differently it's been pointed out to us that's something that town wants to change its level and raise its level of outcome. So we'll adjust people accordingly to do that. You don't give us the give us all the equipment and we don't have the material we need to do deep time aeration and sanding and the sand for that and you don't give us the seeds and you don't give us the fertilizer. So then we'll do deep time aeration and we'll try to find somewhere to pay for that and it'll take money from something else we do in park and wreck. Park terrain grounds not park and wreck. We have a wreck department now so I have to be careful saying that. So that's really what, what kind of happens here in Amherst is people kind of agree this is what needs to be done and we kind of make it kind of happen. So that's probably what it'll be what will happen. If you give us equipment and you say you want to be a higher level of a higher standard of field and grass and that's what you'll have. What we have now is it's not the fact that we're not doing it is we're doing it to the level that we were funded and staff to now. At a higher level, we just need more, we can do it with what we have now, we can even make it work with what we have now there has to be more input. People material and equipment to make it be the level that was described and that what people said they wanted I mean, basically, I'm not being derogatory in the statement is basically we want NCAA NCAA level division fields and there's what I what we heard. And yes, they probably won't be like an NCAA division one school they'll probably be somewhere on the lower end, but that's what we heard, and that's what we were kind of told we want I mean you cannot. Our fields don't come anywhere close to a community has our official turf field and will won't unless we put a lot more effort into them. That would be the aspiration, but that's not likely going to be the outcome, the NCAA fields goals. I understand thank you. Can I switch to equipment. One of the things was the sidewalk plow and there was a good discussion earlier this winter, just about the extent of plowing the town does as sort of a courtesy to connecting the dots around town of critical, critical places like schools with the downtown is a snow plow $100,000 when we have all these other pieces of equipment including trucks that are a whole lot less than $200,000. Maybe there was an extra zero added just asking. I didn't actually talk about those things yet do you want me to just go ahead. No, if you're going to talk about them that's fine. If you're going to talk to all that equipment I can wait because some of these are equipment questions. Alex is yours on the topics we've been on. Okay, let's come back to that then. Um, so thanks go for it as always. So I guess two questions slash comments around the fields and I apologize I have not been following the fields it's more like a background noise and I know about so I don't know if a decision has been made. The turf versus natural and does that impact the equipment. We are things decided for us to know what we need or does it not matter because we need we need, regardless of the type of field. The list you have now is for grass fields, not for an artificial turf field. So this is. No, I don't think that decision is 100% been made but the thought process was was that if the resistance to an artificial turf field continues this would be the only way to make the grass fields what it would need to be. I think also, even if there is an artificial field that's only going to be one field of the five or six that are up there so you're going to need this equipment for the other fields because I think the what we heard was, we need to approve all the fields not just one that all the fields needed quite a bit of attention and Alex. I think there's still about a million dollars short for the full artificial, you know, so it's, it's got more what I was trying to figure out is are we looking at a number that's based on something that's been decided or are we, and what I'm hearing Sean say is regardless of what happens with that field this equipment's needed so it's, it's the time is right for us to be talking about the equipment regardless. So if I'm hearing that correctly then that's that was my question. Yes. Okay. And then my second question slash comment is, you know, Guilford as you know at this point I'm the longest standing member of the JCPC and I think every year I say this but, you know, I feel like it and DPW or like these black boxes that nobody really understands the details of. And I think you do a really nice job every year. And I actually I really appreciated this year you putting, you know what streets and sidewalks, because I could be like, Oh yeah that is a sidewalk I walk on the sidewalks for doing that and, and, but I, you know, and I know we you've talked in the past about the paving management system that you have. And I don't know if maybe sort of like an improvement to the JCPC processes for us to have. I feel like roads and sidewalks and speed bumps and crosswalks are something that come to JCPC every year. And every year we say you know, yep that's an issue. And then we sort of punted back to to to Guilford to figure out how to make it work and I guess if it keeps coming to and I stress that the more we can understand about the help things are prioritized, and the more we can understand like where to direct people to an existing list of priorities, or the more we can understand, you know, your point Guilford right like we can't have speed bumps everywhere we can't have speed signs everywhere, but do we as a town identify those needs if so, like, are we the process that they get identified as people sending the emails to the DPW site you have, and just understanding how we as a community are making those decisions and the people who know about these processes and like right the people in the know, right, Dona showed up in force, you know, good on them right but I mean that's a group that's highly organized, and they brought all their requests to us but what about, you know, the other groups that aren't that organized or don't have those, you know, that that access so I guess I'm just encouraging again the more information that we have about process and the more we can get out to the public processes look like and how we make decisions I think they do better because people are generally understanding when they have all the facts, or like, at least I like to think so. Go for I'll add to the packet Paul just sent it along the presentation you and Jason did on the pavement management system and how those some of those decisions are made and those are really nice presentations I'll put that in the packet for today. Thank you to help out with that question. But that's just, that's just road paving. That's not all the other projects, and all the other projects. There is a, there is a, I mean, there is a bit of uncertainty how they get chosen because we haven't set down and made some of those decisions I mean, the town council is just now talking about street lighting. There was a proposal for crosswalk standards and it hasn't been sent to the town council, because I mean, there is a transportation advisory committee and they've done some talk discussions about these things, but there's really they're not integrated very well into how the council makes decisions or policies about what some things will be so there are there are there is a bit of work that still needs to be done with Alex and I agree with you that it's just something that's in the works. And then sorry my last question was you had mentioned about sidewalks that if side sidewalks that your priorities are downtown, as you know I live downtown. Sidewalks aren't a da they get pushed to the back. We won't talk about the sidewalk in front of my house, which I know is not a da and we'll get pushed to the back but I'm like, where do they land like I totally get the why that that happens, but do they. When do they surface and how do they work and when time when time really shows up and we have a little bit of time we'll pick up the ones that are harder and start working on them. So we'll look at a sidewalk and we'll go through and see if we can make all the little a da things work. And if they can, good. If they can't then it gets set aside for a little bit and then yeah it's like sometimes in the winter when it's slow, we will pick those back up and we'll work on them or if we have a, we work it into a bigger project. So that's one of those. We had a request, we had a bunch of requests in South Amherst for traffic calming and a whole bunch of other stuff. And out of that's come a whole bunch of the kind of some rough plans for bus bus stops or ADA accessible crosswalks or ADA accessible and a whole bunch of traffic calming down there. And they were onesie twosie things that came in and there is actually is kind of a bigger project that we've kind of mushed all this into and it's kind of like being worked on. Yes, but you don't know about it so you would. Yeah, it is kind of a black hole thing. And then. Okay, I just again I just be especially if the focus is around schools and downtown. You would logically my thought is oh well those places we really want to make sure the ADA sidewalks are compliant but then if they get pushed to the back. It seems counterintuitive sort of what you want in a downtown accessible area so not exactly how it works but I just want to down the downtown stuff does get pushed up faster. That's why the, the section of amnesty that was done was easy section, the section that's down downhill is a little harder and a little bit more difficult to get together. So, Kellogg, Kellogg Avenue was a was a there was a problem trying to get those worked out but we got those worked out about three years ago, and they're going to get the construction starts next year they were supposed to, or this year they were supposed to be last year and this year. So, yeah, it just it's kind of, you have to work through the issues but you do pick up the ones that are easier to do so you just keep things moving. I'd like to, I'd like to actually build on that that brought up something that I forgot to touch on. And that is, whether it's at the end of the JCPC session this year so maybe in that that one extra session that that we in fact have some conversation about the process, exactly as, as Alex was just talking about, but also how to, how to incorporate or, or put in any kind of order, the resident request that come in resident request come in, could be totally ad hoc. It's, you know, just because it came in that year, does it mean that that's something that must get addressed that year, does it take priority or was something that that the DPW has already established for the work plan for that coming year. So I think that kind of conversation we really helpful to have for me but also I think for, for people who submit a request to understand that it might not happen that year, and that if, if there are. I always love to play on so you know where would I put all my, my time and energy feel for talked about the two or three projects that could in fact, end up becoming more of a whole like South Amherst. And to me that's, that's a really good way to do it to bundle things up so that you aren't. You might you might do one of the three projects each year with a goal toward completing a bigger benefit. Okay, that's that would be good to, I'd love to have that kind of conversation on Kellogg Avenue. Please, please don't take it down the rest of the Oaks, they've already lost too many of those Oaks on Kellogg Avenue. There's any more coming down. Good. They might. No, I think they got them all down already. They didn't cut them all down. There are a few left. Like, hold on to them. There's some of the nicest red Oaks in town. So, Sean, I think we're ready to move to vehicles but I just want to add, and you figure out the timing. I mentioned TAC and that they have some kind of sidewalk pedestrian. When if ever would we intersect with them, you know, so some of the residents this year thought, not, not illogically that they ought to go, go to TAC, and I misinform them that come here first. Just some discussion of where does TAC fit in all of this, you know, do in the process, and it's around road sidewalks, crosswalks, speed humps, and traffic calming because that's something they work on also. So, I'm not saying how to do it, but just come back with some idea of how we might want to think about that, because they're off in this other world. So do you want to go to your vehicles? I'm ready. We're ready for the big bucks. So it's vehicles and equipment. Some of this is equipment. I do not know what list, what order you have yours in. So if you, if it's easy to get me to tell you. Yeah, you just tell me I'll tell you what it is. So the first one is a three quarter ton pickup truck with plow for tree and grounds. So we, we, as well, I used to have a nice little sheet I handed to you and you can see all the vehicles and you can see the windows of time we try to keep them in and replace them. A three quarter time pickup truck or a one ton pickup truck that's just a pickup truck, or even a one ton dump truck, we look at, you know, 10 to 15 years as a life span, and that we need to start replacing them in that time period. So the truck is in this one to be replaced is going to be probably truck seven oh, it's a 2012. So it's in the 15, it's in the 10 to 15 year window for replacement. It has 80,000 miles on it right now. And it's one of the softer, it's in, it's got some problems with the undercarriage right now so it's a little bit of a, some has some little problems with it. The thing to remember on all the vehicle replacements we're talking about now, you're not voting on what I'm buying this year. You're voting on what we're buying 12 months from the beginning of the July 1. We're not seeing any vehicles. It's very hard to get a vehicle right now it takes at least a year to get them. The window for ordering vehicles has actually been reduced to a month, and it does not correspond. It does not correspond at all with the state of Massachusetts budgeting process, the window to order new vehicles is January, the month of January, and our budgets are approved in July so even. So if we have to wait to order a vehicle, you approve it July 1, and then I can order it until January, January 1 of the next year. So just so you know, so these vehicles won't show up for a year to 18 months out. Is that that's through the contract that you use. So these vehicles right that that's if you are a that's if you are a municipality, a state agency or a corporation who orders corporate vehicles, not just go on the lot and buy what's on the lot you order stripped down commercial vehicles. You were this is the window you're in. If you go to the lot and buy whatever's on the lot and you're willing to pay an extra $5,000 and it's, it's us. It's a deluxe version with leather seats and all that you can buy that truck then, but if you order a truck with vinyl seats a work truck, you're going to have to get it into the queue. And it comes through the queue and it's a very small queue right now. There's very few vehicles being made. So the next one, go for it is the sidewalk plow. Do you want, I was going to go through all the vehicles and then turn over, unless it's urgent I could, we could do a question if you want. Okay. There's only three more. The next one is the $200,000 sidewalk plow. Amherst has always had about at least two plows that were dedicated to sidewalk plows. We've tried over the years to not buy these expensive $200,000 models. We've done smaller pieces of equipment and we've done in more or less expensive pieces of equipment and they're not working out. These, these, this equipment is made for sidewalk clearing. It's a, it's a municipal. It's a, it's, it's basically a commercial grade and for me and for municipalities it's four feet wide. It's got the power to drive on the snow and push the snow out of the way or to run a snowblower if you need to. We have one right now that's an M is called an M Mike Bravo MB. That's the brand name might be something else with that but it's just an MB municipal sidewalk plow. It's a trackless system trackless trackless, and there's Bombardier Bombardier makes a really nice sidewalk tractor. Besides making litter jets they also make less snow equipment, they make the Bombardier is that groom groom your snow slopes and are used for grooming across country trails and stuff like that they're really geared towards snow they're not a front end loader that you try to use in the snow, which is what we've been doing for about 15 years now is, and those two pieces of equipment are getting kind of old. We do have one true sidewalk plowing equipment piece of equipment and we're just trying to replace trying to get another one so we can replace the two loaders and keep a good, good fleet for going forward with sidewalks. All right and then the last two I think go together it's the five seven yard dump sander truck and then the snow equipment that goes with it. Correct so we're replacing one of the larger dump trucks we have. These are sanders and plow trucks and dump trucks. We're going to place an international we bought in 2006. These trucks we try to make go about 20 years 15 to 20 years and lifespan so it's in the window. This truck over has about 90,000 miles and that was in that was earlier so I don't know if that's the right mileage, but these are the bigger trucks we use for doing the majority of the snow plowing and the construction work we do. The two requests are separated because if you decide you want to buy the truck with chapter 90 money chapter 90 money will only pay for the dump truck. It won't pay for any of the snow fighting equipment so that's why the we used to buy it with chapter 90 but then chapter 90 doesn't pay for snow fighting equipment so you have to have two appropriations to get the whole truck. So that's why they're split like this. There is one other piece of equipment we haven't talked about and that's an asphalt hot box. We have an asphalt reclaimer right now we've had it for over 10 years. We cannot get parts for it, and the machine is starting to have problems, so we need to replace it. And since you can't buy parts, we either replace it with the same type of machine. So we decided to go with sort of a cheaper option and go with what a lot of the communities in the area are using which is a hot box, which take basically takes asphalt pieces that you make for patching in the winter. And in the winter you take these pieces and you put it in the box and you reheat the box and reheat the asphalt, and then you have hot asphalt to do patching during the winter. So it's an oldie but a goodie. It's actually hot boxes have been around for a long time and it's a tried and proven technology and it works well. So far. Thank you, Gilford. I don't think I've learned so much about equipment as I've learned this afternoon so I appreciate that. My one question is so based on the fact that you said that that you would not be able to get this till next year. Is your cost estimate based on whatever the increase there might be. It says based on as best we can tell what the cost increase will be yes, we talked to the suppliers and we based the numbers kind of on what they think it'll be. And if we, if you do approve it and we get, and we get the permission from the vendor to go ahead and buy it at those prices they'll lock that price and forest, even though they can't get the truck for a year and a half for a year out. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I was wondering about the patching, the patching dilemma, probably 10, maybe 15 years ago there was quite a discussion about having resin patches that wouldn't that wouldn't involve heat. And it was something the state DOT was promoting. Do we ever do that. No, the resin patching didn't really work as well. We never made those resin coasters and stuff. Yeah, you know it's very delicate stuff and it actually does have a, it does have a window it has to be done in and it's very, it's very delicate. Pretty much asphalt stayed the true course away either reheating your asphalt with a hot box, rejuvenating it with a rejuvenator machine like we likely have now which is not working as well, are using infrared technology, are using just plain old cold patch so a lot of places still use cold patch and actually we're one of the communities that's using a lot of cold patch right now. Because your hot box doesn't work. Yeah, because our hot thing is not working as well. Thank you. I'm not seeing any other. Feel free to, we're still at a quorum so I was getting a little nervous that we were getting near to near not near miss but go on Pam. Back back to the snow plow equipment. The sidewalk plow is is, because you mentioned also the same conversation, a couple of front loaders. Are you including a front loader capability or something on this piece of equipment that makes it cost $200,000. No, they don't, they don't really have that capability. I mean we have what we've been using for snow plows are called Wackers that's a Wacker brand. And their WB 25, we have a WB 25 and WB 30. If you look those up if you if you feel like they need to kind of really geek out on the equipment. You can see what they are they're just basically like little like toy. Some of the guys that operate and you see they're huge guys and they fold themselves into these small machines it's quite interesting to watch but it's just a small little loader that runs on the street. But we will still probably be able to use them for a few more years in the capacity as a loader. Small loaders and then we have the bigger loaders we have as well, but we got those small ones basically for the sidewalks and this for small loading things. I should bring pictures next time. You're welcome to do a PowerPoint if you want to show visuals next time if you want. So Sean I just like went by it and passing but Joe for talked about the North Amherst intersection. Large month is that on a future. So yeah it is it was in the preliminary capital plan and the section of projects that if we get a grant or if we get some additional funding source would be brought back up that so that's sitting there is as the maybe and that's, and that's where it was last year to I believe you. Because it's not on the list. It's not in it's not in the plan. And there was a conversation we had last year. Do we do the design work and it's not going conversation do we do the design work in order to make it more likely that we get a grant or do we wait to try to get a grant for the whole amount. And so I think that's not going conversation do we just put the portion in for the design work so that we can then maybe be more competitive at getting a grant if we have that that component of the work done so. Right now it's not in the plan but if something changes will let you know. So I don't want to, since it's not in our plan I don't want to take up a lot of time on this but we just the council just approved, having had CPAC approve a new development coming in in the Mill River area. So that's the affordable housing and, and condos. So my understanding of one of the ways you leverage to get the mass works grant down in South Amherst was you got people saying, this is really needed because of the development that's coming in here so I would like to be in for a large state grant with an argument that it's only going to get worse and that we already have a set of issues and go for it I know I've asked you this more than once but when you put in the smart lights, smart light which we all like. You could count, and then at one point you said the counting wasn't upright yet but it was supposed to be able, we were going to be able without a traffic study to be get getting a flow of traffic study so I don't know whether we could hitch that up if it hasn't been connected. And so it's just part of this larger puzzle Sean of speed hump sidewalks repairs on all of the streets that connect into this when Pam asked for the bigger picture, I think it's a, it's a discussion that shouldn't be just happening at the dpw or inside town and there's a lot of interest in this so you're shaking know the car county never got connected. The car counting is there. And we haven't, we haven't connected it but what people are asking for what are the pedestrians and bicyclists and that's part is totally not there yet. So that's the piece that's not working. But if we want to do, if we wanted to do, we want to collect the data of the vehicles we can actually do that we just haven't got set up for that yet. It would be really good because we had an estimate what would happen with North Square opened up. There were projections but now that it's not only open but full and you masses back in session it seems like we need to be doing it while you masses in session so I won't take other people time but Pam it's just impossible to plan without some idea of what's going on in the intersection. So. And the goal, the whole product, the process for the intersection was to re engage the neighborhood and a discussion of what was going on there and what the options were to, before we actually do the design but there was no money to do the design so it wasn't like well we're not going to start engaging if we don't have the money to do something. And since you already have at least two designs halfway done. It was like re engage so. So I'm looking for any other questions I mean I think Mandy sent in several Sean but I think we indirectly or directly asked answered most of them. I mean she had asked about this North Amherst set of cluster project so we I think we're coming back to it. She didn't literally say it that way but it was. She said about Pine Street Fisher Street Harris Street was her question that we get. So when Gilbert comes back, if he's coming back just have a fuller discussion about that and Alex us for the bigger picture I'd like a bigger picture of how we decide on speed bumps if we have any kind of, you know, when and where we might put them in. In addition to any other traffic slowing, we're talking about. So that's just that's a longer term, bigger picture piece, and you're right the North Amherst group got together and said here's here's an opportunity. So, Pam. I would I would weigh in on the speed bump question and, and I think they belong on cut through or cut around or or you know street, such as cottage street which used to be a real problem. But now is wonderful because it has three speed bumps in it. And Alex you said you live on one of those I think you said, yeah, yeah, I've got I've got the trifecta I've got speeding I've got the cut through I've got the sidewalks it's all good though. Don't forget to be eventually I'm confident. I think that's it. I do see we have public so I want to open it up for public comments but just making sure that we, there are no other hands up. So we are open for public comments if anyone has any. I'm not seeing. Okay. Yes. Sean you, I think you're the host. I can't do anything right. Maria has been brought into the room. Thank you. Hello. Several questions about the field equipment for for Guilford has there been any consultation with professional groundskeepers about doing soil testing and recommendations to develop a program for the fields needs and what does the equipment. And I know this is not the place to talk about the operating budget, but for operating budget and staffing does that meet those requirements. And will there be specific training for DPW staff in how to provide this. And what are the needs. A lot of the items under field equipment and I did not look for the others but they all noted that they were using conventional fuel technology. And has there been any attempt to see if these pieces of equipment can be electric powered versions and what are the cost differentials. And I believe that the regional school districts the community fields Kiwanis and Fort River would be included, but I didn't hear you mentioned Graf Park Mill River or Plum Brook so maybe that was just an oversight know if if they weren't going to be included in being having these these pieces of equipment used on them why would that be. I didn't get that but I might have some follow up questions that I can, I can send to you. Maria if you send them, either to Sean or to me we'll put them in a queue because some of the committee also asked so that would be a useful route. Thank you. I'm not seeing any other hands up. Thank you everyone. And thank you. Guilford who may have left. Thank you Guilford very much for being in the spotlight. And thank you everyone Mandy sent me in minutes but I didn't get a chance to look at them till just before the meeting. Perfect the way Alex's have been perfect so all I did was a couple typos so they shown will be posting them so. And I'll particularly tell the people who left early or work or miss the last meeting that the minutes are available. We all are all is if people need to re look at this far we will send it to you right away the recordings are available right after the meeting, but they are getting posted. Pretty much on schedule every Friday afternoon so you can go and have a high probability of finding the meeting if you want to go back and listen to a piece of it again, Pam. Thank you Sean. Is there a spreadsheet that that each of these items shows up on. I'm sure there is but I don't know where to look for it. Yeah so it's in the packet for our second meeting. Yeah, it's in the preliminary capital improvement program about halfway through you'll see the spreadsheet that has all the individual projects listed for FY 24 and then you can see some of the projects in the out years as well. Would it be possible even those kind of redundant could it just be tucked in each packet so anybody coming to a meeting could also see that and not know because I wouldn't have known to go back to the second meeting. Sure yeah I can add it to the packet. And Sean rather than the entire thing you could just pull out those tables. So that would be, you know, it's he's got him in an Excel thing that he plunks into the report but then we would have the rather than what page is the big table and we'd be able to see it. I'm falling up on that but sort of spring off that what that reminded me of so I know for me personally a lot of times when I'm looking at the spreadsheet that I wind up going back and pulling the old spreadsheets because it's nice to see what they asked for previously, but didn't get or and I don't know whether that's just me and my spastic detailed ways or whether it would be helpful for other people to see sort of prior fiscal years beyond the one like I just like like the request from cherry hill today right was originally a 2018 request you know and so I just for me it's helpful but if it's not helpful for others and I'll just, I know what to find. So, I guess I leave that to the group if it's helpful to add. And Alex, I think it would be whether Sean has an easy way of showing us what didn't make it onto the list is what you're asking for. I can always show the prior year, but showing prior to that it starts to get a little more difficult or just time consuming to go through it all and bet it all and make sure it's, you know, there hasn't been any formula or other things that we sort of finalize here and then we start fresh the next year. So I could take a look and see if there's anything that might be helpful along those lines. Yeah, no actually I mean there's I guess there's two pieces to it one is you know what's been asked in the past and drop but that I mean I can do the research on that but even just like what we did right like we're, we always see what we did last year and we don't see what we've done over like the last five years and so, or I think like I'm thinking about Pam has just joined like, you know, you would have no way of knowing that like, we really changed like our allocations around sidewalks and really done I mean, it's never enough but it's so much more than we used to do and I just, I think sometimes having that historical information of where we spent money beyond just last year can be helpful in terms of thinking long term. Yeah, there might be, maybe there's something we could fold just into the process. Like we said we do the look back to the prior year but maybe we expand it to go a little bit farther back. I know, and the reason I bring that up as I know we've been getting a lot of questions on investments in roads, and I know we never invest enough in roads one thing we have done the last, you can kind of see clearly is the last five years the investment roads has gone way up. And it might be helpful. I think you're right that context is helpful to see where we put money so. Thank you for this year but definitely in future years I think we can expand that look back to be more than just the prior year. So, these are great suggestions and you know both in our minutes but we should be remembering them because that's part of what we can do in the report as recommendations we're not just recommending around like this project don't go that or more but process questions I think have been to me, incredibly useful because the town manager and staff have been very responsive to saying, yes, there's a different way of doing it and it would be an improvement so I think this process has been getting better and better as we have less and less money to spend might be one way of looking at it. Hey, 10%, 10% of the levy. Yeah, so the one other question Mandy asked and Sean answered but Sean you can paraphrase and I had had the same thing the millionaires tax that was supposed to be for transportation and education the question is any is any of that coming back and is it helping on roads and sidewalks and Sean's answer was so far disappointingly no is that to answer. Yeah, I mean everything's so disappointing on that front so far. The educational monies that I mean, we knew that town of Amherst was going to be on the lower end of the benefits of the additional money for education but as so far as we can tell, there's no benefit no additional benefit to the Amherst public from that from the millionaires tax and on the transportation side, I don't want to say not there's none yet but there's a bunch of money that went to the MBTA which obviously that's not going to help us. There was some money that went to the Department of Transportation for a grant program and so I think we have to see more what that means that potentially could benefit us. And there were some other other things like that that there could be benefits to us, potentially through a grants grant process, but it didn't. It was unclear if we would start seeing more chapter 90 for example which is because what a lot of us were hoping is that they would just put some of that into chapter 90 and give us an extra, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars a year to do more roads. But it doesn't, I haven't seen anything that says that's going to happen so I think we need a little bit more time to see what those programs are that the governor has proposed and ultimately obviously if they're approved. But at first glance nothing sticks out as an immediate boost on either front education or transportation. And the legislature still has to weigh in so this is just the beginning where representatives could also weigh in on definitely what might be a better use of those monies. Absolutely. Because it would certainly be nice of our chapter 90 money doubled. Yeah, that's a go for talks about, you know, isn't like a lot of state programs but that one is one that is pretty straightforward and you can count on it and plan around it and so I think in terms of improving transportation and Amherst that's would be what we would suggest as more money in that program. Thank you. And Jennifer, thank you for rejoining us we are, we are about to adjourn. And as I said, the, the, if you, the parts you missed if you want to see them, the town has been really good to get about getting the recording up by Friday afternoon so usually on the weekend so we can just quickly go to whatever we had a pretty. We had a very good discussion about some recommended process changes in terms of informing us in future years but also helping us make decisions this year so it would be worth listening to it. And with that, I, we're at 253 and unless I see a hand go up, I think we are going to adjourn at 253. Thank you all for your time and attention.