 So I'm putting FedTech on all these guys' quads, but the catch this time around is they're running their traditional ESCs that kind of the catch for these guys not wanting to switch is not because of the way it flies, but because of the durability. And generally speaking, the FedTech and KISS ESCs have been notorious for braking. So if we take that factor out of it and let them run their own ESCs that they're used to, like Drew's individual ESCs, Bubby's Foxy or ESC and just run it with the FedTech G4 fly controller, which seems to work really well with Bill Halley. In theory, they can still get that amazing flying quad but with what they're used to. So I'm curious to see what Drew thinks, what Bubby thinks and what Shaw thinks. This is the Moxie Prospect build except for the fly controller. This is a FedTech G4. And I'm really excited to try it out because yesterday we had a little flight session right after some filming and I got to fly one of Alex's quad. He was flying a pirate frame and he had this exact fly controller. That was the best quad I've ever flown. And I mean, I liked it enough to buy a fly controller. The biggest thing is the quad he flew was a FedTech board and previously had a FedTech ESC. That runs its own software. Our pilots primarily fly Bill Halley. It's what the majority of the crowd flies. It's the common software. So this quad is a hybrid. So what you flew yesterday was a hybrid between FedTech and Bill Halley and we built that on your quad. This is just a slapped on tune that's kind of like the golden starting point. And I'm curious to see what you think of it. Yeah. Oh, it's a take off. Still locked in. Give it like a nice, just in a straight line punch out like into the air. Oh heck yeah. Nice and smooth. Oh, okay, that though. That's just you letting off. It needs a little tuning. Yeah, for sure. How's it flying though? Compared to your actual setup you normally use now that you're in the air ripping it. What do you think honestly? You know, I kind of get what you mean by feel. But yeah man, I kind of like it. Like I think after we get some tuning I think I'll like it even better. As is though, where does it like compare? Same, slightly better. What do you think? I think like in terms of like flying wise and like a little jitter we saw I think my quad might fly a little bit better. But like in terms of like locked inness like that's so straight. Like mine still had like a slight little fling every now and then but like that's hands off. It is worth noting though that this quad that we put the FestTech board in is not a new quad by any means. Yeah, it is very, very good. I think it's worth making it fair. This is a beat up frame, a beat up ESC. Yeah, I think we could raise the pins a little bit. I gave him a tune that was off of one of my quads which is about 120 grams lighter. So I think we could bump the pins up and you might make it a little bit more locked in. But it looks smooth. That's the biggest thing with KISS is it's a smooth feeling in the stick. You don't really, I don't think get a ton better flight performance. But I do think that people who fly KISS notice how smooth it is and how well it tracks. More, but it flies great. Yeah. I like the feel. Yeah. It's the M1, literally Betaflight. All the apps do this except for my KISS Ultra. Apple. I can edit videos fine, but I mean, I'm really not good at editing. That's M1 optimized. KISS is not M1 optimized. Betaflight's not M1 optimized. I know. Oh. Stop. I'm really frustrated. Oh man. You move the sticks and the bars move. That's sick. What's your arm? What's your arm? If you're ever looking for any of our rates or tunes or whatever, we try to keep updated information on the Rotor Riot Store. I just find my rates because I don't have a memorized. So, here are my Betaflight rates. And you can convert them to KISS rates? Yeah, they're the same. Oh, it's just the same? Okay. It'll feel slightly different because the KISS PID controller is like. I've actually been thinking about going even lower. Remember when my rates used to be considered low? Right. Everyone dogged on me and now I actually have high rates and I'm like, they're the same rates. By the way, minimum command at 1,000, that just like enables air mode. Steel has a video which shows like how to basically have air mode on a switch. I just don't. So it's just air mode all the time? Right now it's air mode all the time. I do kind of want air mode on a switch. We'll figure it, we can go. Oh, good, we can do that. Let's get it flying, let's get it. This is how these awful motors. These are beautiful motors. These motors have been so beat up. Sean actually like built a new quad which is like going to give it a fair shot. Drew and Bubby just took used gear. At least Drew used a new frame to be fair. Bubby just used. I used a prototype V3 Moxie that I've had for months. So it's ready to fly now? It's ready to fly now. Pretty quick. That was so fast. All right, you're actually flying KISS on your ESCs, your frame, your motors. It looks really good. Something I'm feeling is it's a lot easier to stop where I intend to stop if that makes sense. Yep. It just points where you want it to go. How's your like, if you full throttle, how's your like? Well, let me just see if I want that Rubik's nice and locked in. Yeah. That was nice. That was good. Oh, it's smooth too on the punch. That feels good. Hands off the sticks. Look at that. That's locked man. That is locked in. Woo, that just feels like really good float. It looks good. It looks really good. You just want to toss it over the trees. Oh yeah. Beautiful. It looks good. It looks really, it sounds really good. Hey, you're looking really locked in with it too. Oh my. You just went for it, you just went for it. You're doing everything you would normally do. I guess my question is, is it better than what you fly? I don't know. I mean, it needs more time with it. Like, I'll tell you, it doesn't immediately strike me as worse. And I mean, that's a really good thing. Like, I don't know, like. I think you have to fly back. I got some of those bunny hops. I'm getting more of those bunny hops than I get with Betaflight. Yep. But I do feel like when I just go, whee, boom, hands off the sticks, Betaflight shakes a little bit more. Yep. Like this just feels like, just feels like it's not locked moving at all. Like, I don't, you know, no prop wash. That's just a base tune as well. Yeah. For a base tune, this is very nice. Yeah. And I got really frustrated with tuning Betaflight. I don't even do it anymore. I just use Tyler's tune. I would love to see you, Juris, since you come from doing more traditional PID tuning, because you've been in it for a minute. Boom. I would love to see you actually go into the Kiss Pids. When we talk about bunny, I feel like is that just raising pitch-eye? I think, yeah, raising pitch-eye and even the pee a little bit on pitch. We know it flies really good with this tune. I think. I think you should start tuning it the way you would try. I bet I think you should try tuning it the way you would. It's just been so long and it just felt like Betaflight got to the point where tuning didn't do anything. It was all about like, if I wanted to actually feel into difference, I had to do some crazy filter settings. Oh, nice. Yeah, cool. Those are fine. What I want out of a PID tune is I want the Pids to be just high enough to take care of all the bad flight characteristics I want to get rid of and no higher. I don't like, I want things to be a little looser. Right. I want to have a little bit of headroom because I am flying with bent props. Yep, so that's a feature I want to tell you and Sean about. So this is set, point, weight and D term. I have it at 100, that's where it maxes out. When you guys flew my FetTech quad, I had this set at 85. The lower this number, the like more, it's almost like feed forward or something. We're kind of just the feel of the quad. So right now it's just like I'll leave that at 100 so this should be the most locked in feel. But if you get the Pids at a certain point, but you want the quad to still feel soft a little bit, you can lower this to like 90 or 85 or something like that. I know Steel uses like 80 or something. He likes the quad to almost like be a little bit loose. That's just another feature you should know about because you can play with that. But you know, I leave it at 100 and it seems to fly great. Ultimately the biggest downside I feel like there is to kiss FetTech is the durability. I feel like there's a stain on kiss because for years now there's been problems with like kiss ESCs catching on fire. When I first started, I burned 50 of the kiss 18 and a half ESCs in the very beginning and that was, there were 25 bucks a piece. That was expensive. And I mean like for me, I run the FetTech ESC and for the most part I have no issues but I predominantly fly around trees and soft grass. So it's like not really an issue. But you guys, I crash in a concrete and I need something that's going to take a lot of abuse. But the ESC has been the failure point. Yeah, it's always been the ESC. I've never really had a problem with a flight controller before. So if we remove the ESC variable and just use your guys normal ESCs, which is also nice because you can use any ESC or not like a lot to one thing. Even if you have to maybe jump through a few hoops. Yeah, you know, I think Drew's biggest complaint, he couldn't use his individual ESCs. You know, me and him for the longest time switched to individual ESCs because the foreign ones just couldn't take the abuse. I'm trying to get away from the individuals just because it's a lot more effort to build the quad. And I'm trying to go back to foreign ones. I'm trying to see if the new foreign ones that are out now can take the abuse that I put them through. And so far so good, but I haven't done a whole lot of flying. All three quads are different. So Bubbies is using a Foxier Reaper ESC. It's a foreign one ESC with the Fetek G4 flight controller. Yours is using a T-Motor ESC with the G4 and his is a new quad. And then Drew's is running, what ESCs are you, the individuals? T-Motor individuals, the F-35s. Okay. Yours looks really smooth. I felt a little bit of oscillation there, but I think I did. Maybe I'm imagining things. Yours looks really locked actually. Like it looks like you can raise the pins to make it a little bit more, but like it sounds smooth. Yeah, it sounds really good. That was a really awesome power loop. Yeah, like no prop watch. Yeah, that felt really good. But like, I don't want to speak for it. Like ultimately, like what do you feel with it? You feel like it's... Yeah. I'm doing a race course right now. It's not really what I usually do. I should just try to freestyle and see what it does. Like that was pretty awesome. Oh yeah. You hear that flick too? I like when I drop the throttle completely, I love the way it felt. That's what Drew said as well. It just stayed on track. Exactly where I thought it was gonna go versus like veering. Sometimes Betaflight'll veer. I think the best thing I can say about it is that it always goes where I tell it to go. Right. Like I haven't crashed into a gate yet. All right. Yeah, I definitely love power loops better with this. I struggle with power loops and it seems like every time I try to do a power loop and Betaflight, my power loops veer a little bit. Like when I go to power loop, it'll kind of go off axis a little bit and I don't have that at all with this. Like it's just exactly where I tell it to go. I was able to power loop the first try from the bottom gate over into the top gate right through the second hole. No big deal. It's hard to explain, but it just feels like it's more locked in, I guess. Like it's doing what I'm telling it to do more accurately. Keep trying it. I haven't crashed it yet. So we don't know if it's gonna last the durability test yet. It's like really hard. Or like really hard full speed into the tree trunk from a trip from a magic flip and do it again. It's fine. The flight controllers don't really break often. So like I didn't really expect it to break, but we'll see. I'm thinking that the flight controller being more less abused will probably make this work for me. Now that I can use my own ESCs, I think it's actually usable now that I don't have to use a kiss ESC. I'm not excited about having to switch everything because I don't like having to change everything that I'm used to. I know Betaflight, like they're back in my hand. With all the projects that I do, Betaflight definitely has a lot more switches to press and a lot more functionality capabilities. I don't know how to do any of that with Kiss. So I have to learn it all over again. And I'm not really psyched about learning everything. Well, maybe Kiss can be your freestyle stuff and then you can have your Betaflight, which you know. I do love learning new things. So I'm excited to try it. I'm excited to take this out to like a real like freestyle. Yeah, they gotta take it somewhere like a park field. We gotta go somewhere with concrete. All right guys. So I'm gonna give you some tips and tricks for if you're gonna try and run the Kiss FedTech flight controller in your own quads because there's a few little things that I do that have given me great success over the course of the last year and a half running FedTech. This is the latest G4 flight controller and it comes with a few sets of cables right here which we'll talk about in a minute. But one thing this flight controller does not come with that I wish it did come with are these little gummies right here. These are little stack grommets and I love using these in my quads because typically we run in our flight controller stacks, a stack screw all the way through the frame, ESC and flight controller. But on the Kiss flight controller I don't really recommend doing that for a few reasons. First off, this flight controller does not come with gummies and in fact in order to use gummies you would have to enlarge the hole size. That's no problem except for I found in the past that really runs the risk of damaging the flight controller or as you'll see it's really fit on the outside so not necessarily the best idea to use that sort of method to drill out the holes and put gummies in there. So what I like to use are these little stacks isolator standoffs and all I do is I run a screw through my ESC if you're running any normal ESC that has gummies you can use the gummies on the ESC still. Run a screw through your ESC with just a little bit exposed and then thread these bad boys on there and then mount your flight controller on. The other nice thing about doing this too is it gives the flight controller some more space above the ESC than normally. In my opinion that improves the performance of the quad greatly because you have less noise from wires and other things running in between your ESC and your flight controller. Another tip that I like to do with this flight controller in particular this is the G4 flight controller from FedTech is you can either solder to the board or you can use the connectors. Now I like to use a mixture of the two sometimes depending on how I have my quad arranged. So I like to obviously use the connector to go from the ESC to the flight controller and then I like to use a plug for my receiver and then a plug for my video transmitter. That way if I ever work to kill one of these in a crash I just unplug everything, bring a new flight controller in plop it on, plug everything in and then transfer the information and I'm good to fly once again. Super duper easy, really reliable and I love this flight controller because it's very, very versatile. Now if you're going to go out and try what the boys are doing which is running a BL Heli ESC with a Kiss flight controller you are going to have to jump through some hoops at this time when this video is recorded in order to run BL Heli with Kiss. The biggest hoop you're gonna have to jump through is you will not be able to use BL Heli pass through to change the motor direction or your ESC settings with the Kiss flight controller on. So if you're gonna use a BL Heli ESC you need to plug in a normal beta flight flight controller into your 401 ESC to go ahead and reverse your motors and change your ESC settings or you have to manually reverse the motors with the solder joints as well. Once you have all that set up however you simply put your Kiss flight controller on check the motor directions and everything like that and you're good to go and you're good to fly. In fact, I think Kiss flies incredible on BL Heli almost as good if not as good as the Kiss stuff does. So don't be afraid to try it. Just take an old flight controller you have laying around make sure the pinout and everything is right plug it into the ESC do what you need to do and then just hook it up. It's not that big of a deal and hopefully by the time this video is out there will be a firmware for this flight controller that has BL Heli pass through included. Unfortunately right now at the time I'm filming this that isn't something that exists. So if you're gonna use a BL Heli ESC you're just gonna have to jump through a one or two extra hoops in order to make it work. If you're using the FetTech ESC combined with the FetTech flight controller however you can use the FetTech configurator it's super nice and reliable. You can go in there change your ESC settings your motor direction and everything else that you need to do. And in my opinion if you wanna get the best performing quad on FetTech I would recommend combining it with their ESC. I think it's time we jump back out into the field and see what the boys are up to see how they're enjoying their quads what they think about them and who knows maybe we'll have some converts here by the end of this video. Flying it I've actually been really liking it like I don't know why I'm like I'm kind of mad that I don't like it as much as I do. Why? I don't know man like I just put together like what I thought was in my opinion was like my perfect beta flight quad like it flew really good but like. And then Bandover just came to town I was like it sucks. He was like fly this. He's like here look at this G4 thing and I'm like it can't be that good. It's good. I mean I've always liked the way Kiss flies when someone who knows what they're doing can get it flying right for me. The problem has always been the like some of the technical issues which you work through and the durability. I've had no technical issues with this it's been rock solid for me. And I've had like a lot of hard crashes and like I know flight controllers don't break but I actually. I would say like to add to what you're saying yeah it definitely does help to know someone who knows Kiss like there's a few little tricks that we did on your quads like for example building your quad on these rubber standoffs like that's something that I found works consistently and so I made all you guys this time build it all like that and all three your quads fly great just little tricks like that which there's no manual for so I do think you have to jump through a few hoops and then but like the tune wise it's just it's a tune that's in the configurator it's just called the golden starting point anyone can do it. So now it's time me obviously keep flying it crashing it pushing it but then if you really like it and you're thinking about switching try it you know in another bill with like different configurations see if you can repeat it you know because if you can only get one quad that's my problem with beta flies I can only get one quad to fly good and then it's not consistently flying well like this just flies well. I haven't crashed it enough to know for sure but I my props are pretty mangled up. I still haven't crashed to the level I normally crashed to know if it's durable enough but so far so good. I love the way it flies. What's even better about it is I didn't have to tune it. You did it for me so. Well I just put a preset on there too so I mean I didn't really do much I just went into the configurator quick to preset. I mean there's presets loaded in there because you could build a quad similar to someone else's build get their preset as a starting point and honestly it's probably gonna be fine. I just use your golden tune thing and change just the P and the I on the pitch axis and it was like a teeny tweak and I do think that tuning Pids is a lot more intuitive than tuning filters just my personal opinion. You know I think that there's a lot more information out there on what you could do that so I think Kiskin with these presets now can get you to a better starting point and you're probably gonna have to tweak it but if you need to it's not so hard. And you guys are all on stock filtering as well so you could in theory push it more I don't touch the filters. But they set the filters up for like normal five inch stuff. Yeah and I will say Kis this is a good note to make Kis is generally built around freestyle so it's not necessarily something that I have raced much cause it's almost like it can't keep up with the speed of a racing quad. It's really intended for freestyle. We're like Betaflight you can do anything you want with it. Flight controller is awesome. It's got eight motor outputs. Yeah I really like the eight motor outputs. I like to tinker with things and I like to make weird projects and motor outputs is one of the things I look for in a flight controller. It's really cool that it has eight motor outputs. It doesn't even care about this gigantic heavy GoPro mount. That I'm surprised about. I'm shocked about that. The flight is great even with all this weight. Talking about the flight controller really quick one thing I love about it is it's a built in 3030 and 2020 flight controller which is really nice and in the 2020 configuration it's got M2 holes but you just tweak it with your little exacto knife and then you have M3 holes. I was wondering what that was. Yeah I really like that. So that way you can run M2 screws or M3 screws you just tweak it out and so I love that cause like if I had times where I burn a 3030 ESC and I have a 2020 I can throw it in there and fly the exact same. Like I don't need to buy different flight controller. The only downside to KISS Fetek is you have to buy that flight controller. So you cannot flash KISS on your beta flight T-Motor flight controller or your hobby wing stack. And it is a little pricey. And it is a little pricey. So if you see this video and you're interested in trying it unfortunately there's no way that when you're like yeah just flash this on the board as you already have like no you gotta buy this. It's a $75 board. But there is a lot of power in that board. Yeah that's a lot of money. Oh look at the description. To be fair all flight controllers are going up in price right now. That's true. And KISS boards beforehand were the same price as the flight controllers maybe a tiny bit more. But unfortunately due to the chip shortage the Reaper ESC is a $100 ESC. Like it's the whole industry right now. So there is a lot of power in that flight controller. There's a lot of features in it. And I think the direction that KISS is going right now where it's trying to be more compatible than with just like KISS ESCs. I think it's really exciting because I think you're gonna start seeing a lot more pilots trying it because of that. Not being like locked into one ESC and one flight controller. At least you're only locked into the flight controller. I don't know. I think we've gotten a little spoiled over time. You know as prices have come down. You know when I first got into freestyle drones the amount of ESCs I had to put on a quad add up to a hundred bucks. So I mean it's come down and now it's going back up a little bit. I mean it'll fluctuate a little bit. What if I did want to throw one of these FCs on it like a Cinewup or even like a two inch little microgatherer presets in there. Yeah. And there's actually some really awesome. You guys haven't even seen this yet. But this is the Fetek 326S all-in-one board. It's a 2020 mounting board. This all-in-one I have in my Cinewup and KISS flies incredible on a Cinewup. You're probably not going to crash this that hard too. No. And they recommend that you keep it on either ultra light five inch quads like and I'm not talking racing quads. I'm talking like you know you're sub 250. They don't really recommend you push this stack on like a 6S or but like I've seen some for it. So you might be able to get it. But again it's really more geared to the micro side of things and they even have a smaller all-in-one which is like a little 15 app which is great for your whoops or your two inch quads on like three cell. I mean they actually do have a variety of fly controllers but they're all built kind of for one purpose. I love this all-in-one. So will that fit on like a dribblet because I'm kind of wanting to build it. Yeah, this is 20 by 20. So the dribblet's 20 all-in-one? Yep. And a lot of people are going to say, okay well this isn't new. You guys are four or five years behind time like KISS has been around forever but the reality is a lot of people including myself have had issues with KISS in the past mainly with durability being the biggest thing and also just compatibility issues. Now we're starting to see this breakthrough. We're all running different ESCs, different setups and configurations like and they're all flying amazing. Couldn't do that beforehand. I'm happy right now. We'll see how long it lasts. Yeah, I'll see how long it lasts Mr. Sean.