 Thank you everyone for joining us at Blockchain Techfest for this panel discussion on the topic of emerging teams in blockchain, ESG, tokenization and Metaverse. I am Vikram Sharma, moderator for this panel discussion and in my professional life I lead blockchain practice at HCL and I'm also a senior blockchain architect. I've been in industry for about more than 15 years now and you know with blockchain for about five years and you know I have a passion to use technology to solve business problems and have been you know providing solution architecture design and technology roadmap for customer globally. I like to say connected with the community and by the way you know so I'm you know part of Hyperledged India chapter you know so I lead even to organizations and you know support that you know the community with you know meet up organizations as well. So I have with me you know four of the esteemed panelists you know best in the industry that we could have right each of them has you know such strong credentials that you know it would have taken you know me a complete hour if you know if I were to do them justice right. So please excuse me for that and I'll just introduce them and then probably you know they can you know introduce them themselves you know I suppose you know I'll definitely miss out on some of those details. So I have with me starting with Professor Sandeep Shukla. So Sandeep is you know I triple E fellow and ACM Distinguished Scientist. He is currently Professor of Computer Science and Engineering at IIT Kanpur which he had at you know during 2017 to 2020. Before joining IIT Kanpur you know he was you know a professor at Virginia Tech USA and he is currently Associate Director of ACM Transactions on Cyber Physical Systems and Journal of British Blockchain Association. Welcome Professor Sandeep. So if you want to say couple of words and then I'll introduce the other panelists. Thank you for inviting me to the panel and thank you for the introduction. I am running the National Blockchain Project funded by the National Cyber Security Coordination Office since 2018 and we have been we have developed a number of solutions which are actually deployed like the land registry on blockchain in Karnataka an equipment solution in Karnataka. We also have a self-sustaining identity blockchain which is used for giving credentials, verifiable credentials and mostly it currently it is being used for providing degrees of IIT Kanpur, IIT in the big new EKTU and yesterday the police academy and RRI. So we have been using hyper ledger through and through so I'm a hyper ledger person. That's it. Yes thank you Professor Sandeep. So next we have with us Nareesh Jain who is co-founder at Snapper Future Tech with more than three decades of industry experience with more than two decades of management in IIT consulting. So Nareesh is also a proud entrepreneur and investor in blockchain technology and he has you know multi-domain expertise and various accolades and significations to his name. So welcome Nareesh. A couple of words from you. Thank you Ekram and thank you for inviting me for this as a panelist. I'll be glad to share my what a knowledge I have gathered in the last five and a half years. So currently as a company we are really doing a lot of for innovative work. We are a hyper ledger certified service provider and as such we are working on multiple blockchain framework but it's all across industry. Different kind of use cases and products and training all of that. Thank you. Yes welcome Nareesh and then next we have with us Prasanna Loha. So he's CEO at Blockstack and is practicing blockchain research, digital transformation and innovation implementation. So he has a vision to make India a hub for blockchain and Web 3.0. He is also director at association of emerging technologies in India and previously he was also CIO for DCB Bank. Welcome Prasanna to the conversation. Couple of words from you. Thank you Ekram and great to be here among all the mentors of blockchain, Nareesh, Sandeep sir, Deepak. So let's move forward. How are we going to help you for all of our friends who are listening us today. So thank you so much Hyperledger India for inviting me and all of our colleagues out here. So as you already introduced thank you once again and look forward for engaging this session with all of our friends. Yes welcome Prasanna. Next we have fourth panelist last but not the least. So Deepak Gadge. So he's co-founder at Stealth Blockstack startup and co-founder at master mentors advisory, you know private limited a blockchain consulting and developing company in partnership with Natsop. He comes with 25 years of experience across industries. His passion for blockchain and its potential to change the business environment led him to you know blockchain ecosystem. I'll let him introduce himself and you know on the points that I might have missed. Thanks Ekram. Thanks for inviting for this panel discussion. It's a great opportunity. I've been working and discussing a lot of used cases along with my mentor and panelist Prasanna Lovat. We've been sharing a lot of knowledge across platforms across used cases and this is a fantastic platform to discuss the used cases where we are talking about CBDC, Web3 and Metaverse as these are growing technologies and these are going to shape the business models and enterprise to scale up and it is also putting India in a different league of players on the global ecosystem especially the CBDC initiative where the government has started with RBI has already started the pilot. I think we are going to see an incredible growth in terms of CBDC implementation as well as G20 Presidency where we are currently hosting the G20 people who are based of India now and there are some good news which are coming through hopefully by end of this presidency we will achieve a lot and thanks a lot for that. Yes, welcome Deepak and so you know in trust of time I would get started with our discussion. So the theme for today is emerging themes in blockchain, ESG, tokenization and Metaverse. So to start with ESG so I see that many of the industry leaders and everyone is talking about ESG and so on observing the blockchain happening in business. So sustainability has become a center point or a center focus for everyone and I think in coming years we are going to see a lot when it comes to sustainability. So it is actually a good thing in that the focus is coming over there. So I want to hear your views Professor Sandeep, how do you believe that ESG is going to the focus on ESG is going to build us for the future and how blockchain can help us? Yeah, so sustainability and environment is becoming more important every day because of global warming and the population explosion and so on and there are certain things that various governments are bringing on for example carbon credit, they're talking about water saving, they're talking about you know various kinds of credits for doing sustainable practices and environmental friendly industrial practices. So a few months ago I was talking to a company that does sensors for water systems in the industry and they have IoT based sensors through which they actually the amount of water they actually use and save and they actually were talking about using those IOTs to actually create a credit system for water saving practices over a blockchain. The reason why they wanted to use blockchain is because right now it is currently a it is self-reporting system. Now the self-reporting system may or may not be you know trustworthy and therefore if the IoT devices can directly put the data on the blockchain and that data can be actually then used for analytics then one can actually the government as well as public in general can actually have a view on how the water sustainable practices of water usage especially industries that are very intensive in water usage can do that. Similarly I know a number of companies that are using carbon credit system on blockchain so I see that there is a movement for this environmental and sustainability practices to be transparent to common people and the government so that the regulations are complied with as well as the reputation of the organizations can be actually put out to public in a very craft-worthy manner. So I think there is a lot of scope of blockchain in this space and there are a lot of movement in that direction and I think more movements will come. So I think this is one of the good practices of blockchain you know that I particularly feel very good about. Yes so by you know I couldn't agree more on you know that self-reporting will continue to pose challenges and you know IoTB is you know reporting is important and use of blockchain for transparency is also you know very important in my at least in my view and you know if I leave the you know the continent of Antarctica I think in rest all of the you know continents I've been having you know conversations with customers or you know you know working on you know you know sustainability and ESG you know methods so what is what are your you know thoughts when it narrates that you know should you know we look at you know IoT and blockchain or IoT or blockchain is also an option. All right first of all let me start by saying IoT and blockchain definitely both are going to play a big role no doubt about that and there because the major challenge what we are facing today we are going to face and because it just started we are targeting to 150 for net zero carbon for that for decades for centuries in fact in India we have been collecting waste right and that process of recycling it's already there in global level that process recently started so major challenge what we are facing today is that we are not able to track so whatever recycling we are doing even though we are producing less carbons and we are saving it we are only able to produce a showcase and over there it becomes very very important that how do we prove that what has been recycled or how much carbon saving we have done and for that of course one of the ways using sensors when we are doing waste management like waste collection when we do at different places from where we have collected how much what kind of waste and how different companies are different companies or different people are managing that so complete traceability and that is where the biggest gap is as of today that without having a proper traceability it will become a problem to prove to the world that we are becoming carbon neutral and for that blockchain plays a big role and will play a big role for example if I talk about say plastic recycling or battery recycling or e-waste over there currently EPR certificates are produced extended producer responsibility EPR certificates are produced mainly by the recyclers and there are a lot of frauds happen because the whole market first of all it's a it's informal sector over there it's all lot of manual paperwork and compliances are heavy because of that their challenges and if we are able to bring a solution or system where we can do starting from waste collection till creating a EPR certificate and complete traceability of that and even after that we do we only do recycling whatever products we are manufacturing out of that or the consumer or the end customer should be able to trace back saying that what kind of products has been waste has been recycling that where from where it has come from compliance point of view traceability point of view bringing informal everybody in a formal sector and ultimately reducing frauds that is the need of the hour and blockchain can play a big role in that. Yes some excellent views and especially you know you talked about traceability and compliance so if I talk about standardization because if I look at ESG scores there are so many different standards of how you report data and what you report that data into how do you calculate your ESG score that has also been one of the things that people have been talking about that there is no standardization across different entities or different organizations are reporting using different schema or different you know method of calculation so my question to you Prasanna is how do you believe that you know we should be you know working towards it that you know with so many different standards are you know accepted it across you know different geographies or you know pleases you are on mute Prasanna. Yeah I think yeah I am audible yes yeah I think very very good question and nothing works without right standards it all research and aspiration towards much more linear innovations. Imagine we have a very good standard around the security we have a very good standard around data transformation on the internet likewise ESG is a global agenda now it has not remained a particular organization relevant agenda where governments are involved public bodies are involved and the whole aspiration today may not be that intent but by the time we reach 2025 or 2030 the need of a meeting SDG guidelines as well as the ESG pointers is going to be very very critical and important today there are some business model where countries and events and various government associations even G20 it was being discussed are are driving it and there are a lot of tech companies and startups are coming with some kind of innovation which is being adopted by bodies of industries example in Maharashtra we had a this water resource group who has come up with some guidelines for all the hotel industry to use the recycle water now although this guideline is there how do you really go and measure and calibrate whether the particular hotel is utilizing the recycle water in the major capacity at a 10 o'clock today so how do you bring on that stuff where technology can come play into role where Narik spoke about how do you have a accuracy of data capturing and actual accuracy reporting out there to the government so that the government whenever want to audit and see against the particular ESG guidelines whether the things are really going ahead adequately or not I think those kind of a stuff where we can really practice it out now but as far as the standards and the process are concerned it is I think it is a long way there has to be a lot of effort has to be taken in that in that context certainly as of now much much things are being explored there are a lot of exchanges are coming like carbon planet exchanges and so on but as a standard I think we have to really work closely with all the other governments and I think this should be this should become a right agenda I had of a adoption of many other areas so I think in a nutshell we have to reach to that the milestone to have a right set of processes and standards but lot of huge efforts are being taken by governments relevant corporates and startups or tech companies also participating what we have seen two years before and today many corporates are now coming and imparting lot of contribution to the ESG implementation so instead I think we need to be part of this and create a right set of standards and the processes so that it becomes win-win situation rather than ultimate guideline for corporates to to have this whole particular practice the way we have various departments so now as of now this responsibility is being taken care either by some of the CSR groups within a corporates or marketing guys to bring on but I think ESG becomes agenda for every corporates in a nutshell every government out there state or a central we need to have a standardization now within India there are some standards there are some bodies who are coming up with some kind of standards but the way we have a global standard is we get to reach that junction but I think it's a continued journey we need to at least put more investment more innovation more research around these areas to bring what is that needed for the next step yeah yes yeah so we lost your video present now for some time but yes you were audible and so essentially what you are so if I gather your thoughts so you are saying that you know you know that there has to be a structure put in place with different you know with the government bodies so I suppose you know but there could also be there would also be some roll-off you know how has been some roll-off you know how people have been you know about investors have been talking about or you know investing into you know only when you know in the business is sustainable and not just sustainable from the you know but sustainable eco and you know friendly for ecosystem as well right so yeah so with that in mind you know Deepak my question to you would be that do you believe that it has to be a global effort or you know like when it comes to carbon you know like emissions tracking or you know but like something at the you know level of united nations or something like that or it has to be you know regional efforts you know to bring up you know those standards and you know do that tracking and and what would be the role of you know individuals and there are investors into it today good question see today the climate the impact on climate and the impact on soaring temperatures today morning itself I posted on LinkedIn Mumbai was never 35 degrees in 20s this is an impact of climate change probably one of the reasons right and every other city is around 20 22 degrees in the last week it's soaring around 34 to 37 degrees which is not quite obvious which is which is a deviation actually and this is a global problem and it has to be addressed at a global level where president also spoke about the standardization where it will eventually evolve but at a regional level you do not have to wait for things to happen at a global level today we are talking about g20 presidency we are talking about that cryptocurrency and climate as one of the hot topics where the g20 people are discussing to close this come to a conclusion by end of this 2023 and there as an country if you want to take the position or a leader as a presidency you need to have a foolproof system to eradicate or reduce the emission carbon emission of the waste management product see in the western world probably I think Sweden or Norway where they have specific areas where you can put your e-waste where you can dump your e-waste it will go directly to the e-waste collector so if you are keeping any loopholes in the system then you will always allow things to drop up and then it will create a new problem rather like if we have if I have to dispose my mobile or a laptop or something I need to have a foolproof mechanism that my laptop or a mobile has been sent to a registered e-waste company either it is refurbished or it is it has made carbon neutral for industries also it has to be tracked at such a level where the auditor the regulator the auditor and the owners of the carbon emitter they need to know what is happening at that level and till we bring a foolproof system or we innovate a foolproof system and bring our own standards for each industry because each industry has its own emission limits and it has got its own processes as well so we need to define that and then bring standards for each industry and start with where we have quick wins so that we can replicate this as a and scale it up to other industries yeah so the you know views I think are you know we are all in consensus so we are you know are linked to blockchain in some way and you know I suppose we all reached a consensus that you know steps are being taken but you know more needs to be done and structure needs to be put in place and traceability and compliance should be there IoT should be there so that you know we are not relying on you know whatever you know someone self reports and we only trust the technology right so trust more into technology than into you know technology alone will not help Vikram see there has to be huge penalties so otherwise people will not adhere to the the compliances right see today we have we break rules on the road most of us do it by knowing or unknowingly but there is no maybe penalty the moment you put penalty everything will get normalized yes sir so let me add one another example as Deepak is talking about penalty in India currently every year the battery manufacturers or the companies who are dealing in battery they are paying a penalty of more than six million dollar every year as on today that is just a penalty cost because they are not compliant or some kind of issues are there and that is happening why that is happening it's only because they are not able to track the whole thing so there's a big gap in terms of where the battery has come and how it has been recycled and what kind of process has been followed so till the time we don't have such kind of solutions and in fact the process already started in fact we as a company also are involved in that we're working on that solution but it requires a big push from the government also not only you have to be compliant and putting a penalty in place supporting companies in creating or developing solutions to fulfill that requirement that's what is very very important field also just adding one more point today where people are becoming directors or independent directors or startups and on company boards there is also certification on ESG so while people are identifying the boards or independent directors they should have somebody who's qualified independent director or director with an ESG certification so that they can guide them on this ESG standards and how to follow these compliances and processes yep so some excellent thoughts so I think you know we can spend you know a good amount of time on this you know topic and you know there would be you know so many inputs that I think we all have so but I'll you know try to move on to the next topic that we have is tokenization and when I say tokenization you know all the you know lights you know all the bulbs you know start you know blowing when because of the NFTs right so most people are relating you know tokenization with NFTs because that's how you know it has been commercialized right so that one part is there and you know many of them are buying NFTs for the sake of buying it and also but yes so it does give us you know good rapport blockchain you know at least it criminalizes people with blockchain in but it does set some you know expectations as well and when something goes wrong with crypto you know blockchain also takes the you know blame as well right so I want with that you know professor Sandeep you know my question to you is that we have you know UPI we have digital rupee so how do you believe that you know our digital rupee is a well hard value and what is the rule that blockchain is going to play in CBNM in central bank digital currency for right yeah so first of all UPI is a payment method and CPDC is a currency right so so there is a difference so also in UPI you have to have settlement banks you have to go through a center bank your center bank they have to settle whereas in CBDC the settlement is real time and without the intermediary right so so CBDC is kind of a tokenization of the money which is cryptographically secured and which can be transferred from wallet to wallet without an intermediary like cash and therefore and also CBDC has these other advantages for example the CBDC being a token a smart contract can actually be used to program it it can be used for welfare by actually making sure that the CBDC push to the wallets to welfare would be only usable for food and clothing and things like that and not for anything liquor for example you can actually also use monetary policy for CBDC for example you can decide to give interest on CBDC storing wallets if you want to control some you know some put some monetary livers you can also expire the money like if that situation arises in terms of this thing also CBDC hopefully will be actually provide anonymity to the extent that the laws in India or the country of jurisdiction allows anonymous transactions of cash for example but beyond a certain limit cash is also cannot be legally anonymized anonymously transferred so same thing would happen to CBDC but the anonymity would be built in through technology and through legal backings so UPI cannot be anonymous for example UPI is leaving too many digital trails UPI cannot be programmed or perposed so UPI is a basically a payment method but you're paying by your bank money whereas CBDC is a central bank money that is provided to you by we are a bank but it is it is readable by the fate of the central bank so it's a it's a very different system so by yeah so exactly you know I think it can't be you know put better and you know explained you know so simply and elegantly so so what are your views on you know the wallets you know would people need to use wallets for you know leveraging the central bank digital currency wallets of course required the wallets have to have some venting features that that because CBDC another another aspect that CBDC has to be has to be has to have is that I should be able to pay offline that is if I in India for example there are a lot of internet denied environment therefore there are requirement for offline payments it may be within a limit because the risk there is always a risk with offline payment although most probably the wallet has to bootstrap on the on the T or trusted execution environment in the in the phones which has some risk probably low risk but there is a risk for for T is to be hacked but the offline payment would be very important and therefore wallets are required then this designing these wallets to be secured double spend proof and secured from tampering and secure for from creation of fake currency etc are going to be very important but wallets will be required okay so my question to Naresh then inclusivity as you know is quite important when it comes to central bank digital currency right especially you know when about what more than 100 countries are right now you know working on the on such projects right including India so what are your thoughts of inclusivity and how CBDC promotes it yeah so as Mr. Sandeep just mentioned in the last there's one option which is going to be available that we can do a CBDC or we can use CBDC or digital rupee even without internet in offline mode right what it means that is going to be a fundamental for inclusivity of going to far faster places all over over India where each and every user would be able to use a wallet and do a transaction using his mobile right of course be a 5g which is which has come up now as it goes all over the places that is going to definitely add a lot of value because that's what is needed for the overall thing but this is the going to simplify things over here people who are living in far far places they don't have really go to the bank and they don't have to really go through a complicated process of opening the account and all that it's just a simple wallet like your cash wallet which is in your pocket it's it's going to work exactly like that it is as simple as that once you have money in your in your wallet you keep on using it you keep on getting keep on transferring it and that is going to help for inclusivity okay one one point I want to quickly is that there is a catch here that for a wallet to be able to be allowed to do offline transfer it has to be the mobile has to have a trusted execution environment and in India there are people who are still using android 3 and android 4 phones so so there is a possibility that there will be a lot of people who would not have a trusted execution environment in a burnt phone which case the inclusivity will not work so so we have to figure out how to solve that problem yeah yes you're right there are going to be a lot of challenges yes you're right yeah so infrastructure that means infrastructure and you know how easy it is for you know people to acquire that infrastructure is important so my question over to Prasanna is you know but do you believe you know there are certain steps that needs to be taken you know in that regard to make you know that central bank digital currency is available and should there be a mechanism to actually interoperate right so interoperability is another you know big thing right so I'll just introduce it so should there be a way to interoperate and have your crypto assets and your central bank digital currency managed in a single interface you are on mute for some reason Prasanna we can't hear you okay am I audible now yes you are yeah so I think what I was saying I think it's a very good question you have spoke about but I think there are lots of things are going to happen as far as a journey of CBDC's concern I think it is just the beginning of something big which is going to all of us right CBDC is a currency and it's a digital currency it speaks a lot about the difference between UPI and CBDC and Sandeep sir has mentioned which very well as far as the infrastructure is concerned imagine UPI took to build at least six to seven years since we had a very good railroad built by NPC so-called IMPS already and on top of that we started building UPI and to begin with it was a part of RBA's business statement and the actual building has started in 2015 and we launched in 11 to really use cases on UPI with the phone pay Google Pay and coming into they are giving a lot of attraction for this concern and the overall infrastructure typically it has a wallet followed by it has to have a some centralized ledger system backed by Sandeep Bank which is already many countries but in between right how we have to create a decentralization or how we should have a better security aspect and you spoke a lot about how interoperability we bring on so I think there are four steps to build any CBDC how well versed monetary policies which we have so typically India like a country we are very strong at a monetary policies so the challenges which face by any some countries on a monetary policy we will not suffer but then next level whether it is a decentralization or centralization so more over the decision is already taken or we could see that it will be a decentralized mechanism backed by some enterprise blockchain that's what we look at it and the way how other countries like China or Cambodia have taken a leap with some of those well-known blockchain platforms so similarly we will also build on the story for us but although our aspirations will be different our population the adoption curve which we are looking at not for only payment because UPI and the relevant railroads are only for payment but CBDC today it will go beyond RBI where we will see how insurance and wealth also will interact so I think the scalability is going to be very very important aspect around at the end of the day because CBDC is not only for a user experience on the wallet side which which is being already solved with the help of UPI kind of ecosystem on smartphones but when you talk about offline on feature phones or some momentum where we I think Deepak just spoke about financial inclusion it's a global financial inclusion agenda so how my CBDC should talk with some other CBDC of other country so can we not have some interoperable lady standards which is going to be very very important where BIS comes into a picture banking interest settlement or notifications are guidelines by IMF keeps on talking if you are creating CBDC at a country level always talk to some other country on a on a monetary standards as well as a technological standards so I think there are a lot of ways wherein we could see some experiments like Embrys or project Helvetica where countries like Sweden Switzerland or Singapore are taking part and doing that kind of research around this but typically today the if you even if you talk about adoption of a CBDC is in a prominent countries some 10 12 countries are live so it is not more than 2 to 3 percent or even you talk about the Cambodia adoption is as a download has done it for 50 percent of population but it to do for an actual adoption so it's appeal for RBA also when they are talking about CBDC in a form of RBI's concept note it should cover more of a adoption cover so apart from the learnings which we'll see in retail CBDC or wholesale CBDC over a period of 2 to 3 months where we will see the scalability or a security part of learning on a blockchain network but we need to see how at the end of the day all reconciliation of all transactions done on today should be nullified at a zero that is the ultimate aim of a CBDC it's not only to bring a financial inclusion or it's not only to bring some kind of one wallet for a better customer experience but at the end of the day how do we nullify all those operations which we are doing since so many years on current payment ecosystem like it takes t plus 1 or sometimes t plus 2 and a lot of manual efforts to do that reconciliation settlement which will be do away with the with the CBDCs so it's a it's a larger game I think we keep announcing POC's pilots it's a good for that larger game but ultimately it's very very important how do you have a right infrastructure and interoperable infrastructure which can work from one country to another country and moreover it should on board not only current payment railroads but eventually the way we have seen insurance was not there right digital insurance or a wealth was not there in 90s or 2000 so all of a sudden with digital adoption there are a lot of instruments are coming in our life now UPI account aggregator and many more ecosystems are coming but CBDC coming in it will open up multiple business products right and so how do you have a appetite for those many transactions when today UPI can handle some thousands of TPS or 520,000 of TPS this will go over 70-70,000 TPS in current capacity now what we are building today's as a CBDC it should remain at least for the next 5 to 10 years to be able to see the cow adoption of a right platforms based on cloud or we need to see if it is a blockchain also how it will really take care for reconciliation at on the same day so that equation means at least on the same day we are going to reconcile all the India transition in the Indian context and when it comes to cross border how do you take care of my CBDC to another CBDC all together but good to see that RBI is very very keen on top of it and government of India is also supporting I can say as a as a humor that we have seen digital rather demonetization 2016 can you not see some digital demonetization and say from tomorrow onwards all paper currency is gone and we are on the work of only digital so I understand that of course you know there are so many thanks to it so I'll you know in the interest of time sorry Prasad in the interest of time I'll move on to Deepak for his remarks on CBDC before you know we conclude this session so we are you know by actually you know running bit late so Deepak your remarks on you know how CBDC I can help and or you know or if you want to talk about metaverse right so that was our you know third team and you know I must see metaverse as a you know channel application or extension of existing channels of how you interact with you know customers so so how do you see metaverse and CBDC playing together I think that would be you know hello father you know question to answer see I will first finish couple of points on the CBDC part I think the esteemed panel has already spoken about infrastructure like Prasanna said CBDC it's a it's a very early stage we've still not gone production it is still in pilot and there are other countries where they have already moved to production there is a lot of learning which we are going to carry through these 10 level countries and there is a lot of opportunities where the fiat currency was not able to solve the fear the CBDC is going to solve because the traceability of the currency itself is going to solve a lot of problems and there is a lot of NPA issues with the micro financing and banks and lending ecosystem which can be traced and which can be transparent and it can reduce NPS in case of farmers when the micro financing is happening they take the loan for farming but they spend it for ready so there are a lot of things which can be controlled and we can build the ecosystem there infrastructure as of course 4G is still not 4G across India now we are talking about 5G by the time 5G matures probably whole of India gets 4G properly and there are freebies where governments are issuing maybe some governments will come and issue smartphones to the electoral agenda manifesto there are CBDC is going to change the game for the exchange itself for the purpose where fiat currency is being used and it is going to solve a lot of infrastructure issues as well because since it is digital and it is a lot of education needs to happen at the deep roots of the corners of the country but the adoption with post COVID has happened faster than any other country I don't see any challenge in India for adoption of digital currency we have been living with multiple currencies in the past history where we had more currencies than any other country itself so I don't see as any roadblock it is going to be a great opportunity for India where India needs to now step up the whole process is to CBDC diplomacy like we had a vaccine diplomacy we need to extend this technology and experience to poor countries and developing countries where you can actually get through the internationalization of the CBDC faster than what we are expecting so that is one thing which the government would so it would be collaboration it would be you know collaboration of you know but not just us I think you know we need to collaborate and create global standards and global technology to solve these global challenges because these are global challenges right so I'm sorry to you know cut all of you short I know that you know we had you know some time you know we wanted to discuss and you know there are so many you know burning questions right and you know thank you all for you know being here and you know giving such wonderful answers and you know enlightening us with your thoughts and it was definitely an intriguing discussion I hope everyone enjoyed in that session so we were live at you know three locations LIDA, Bangalore and Trivandupuram in addition to our virtual audience so I thank you all for being here and you know be participating in this the esteemed panelists and all the all those you know members of India chapter and you know contributors of India chapter and blockchain enthusiasts who have joined us together so thank you all Arun Kamlesh do we have final thoughts or oh I think we can close it and we can continue over thank you everyone