 So would you like to give a brief to everyone about this session in the meanwhile, like we can just start with it. Yes. What made you like ideate about this kind of like session. Thank you for accepting our invitation. I think this is going to be very educative and since the topic is or has been highly integrated in all the cultural and social settings. So I thought that the topic of Kamasutra would be more relevant to discuss on an academic platform. And the proposal when I shared with you, you readily accepted it. And I think I should be very thankful to you for that. And I'm really happy that we are getting a good number of participants also. So many people have registered but let's see how many appears. That's the question. Great. Great. I think people are coming so maybe we can just wait for a minute or two and then we can start. I got something for you. Thank you. Wonderful. This is the virtually I can share. So this is a book of Kamasutra. It is written by Rowley books. Rowley book is a very well-known publisher. And I was just thought of like you can just I just got this to show that it's nothing like what is being perceived about Kamasutra. You can see Krishna. You know we have the Krishna here and he surrounded by the gopis and this is where the imagery of love comes in. Where the Krishna and the gopi it's just the pure bonding of love. It is not a legal institution. It is just how you know it talks about devotion like how they devoted its talk about bhakti. It talks about pleasure because of the Ras Leela like you must have heard about Ras Leela. Yes. Yes. Right. So Ras is basically again pleasure. Ras is rasa. So I think the ancient text you know the ancient text we have kind of boxed them and we are completely disconnected from our own heritage. You know the great cultural heritage and that's what I have been like when I read Kamasutra I was completely bowled over like oh my God. Is this it and what I have been hearing all this while and that it's this position and that position. I think it's a gross, gross injustice. I don't know how it happened but I'm glad that I have been able to bring some enlightenment here. So Kamasutra is basically it's primarily written for men. Why it was written for men because Kamasutra was written in 380 by Vajrayana. And back then women were not able to read and write. So it was primarily written for men to be the skillful lovers and why Kamasutra was written. Kamasutra was written if you know there are four stages of life which is the four phases like Artha, Dharma, Karma and Moksha. So Artha is basically the economic prosperity. Dharma is my own discretion, the right and wrong which we associate with religion but primarily it is about ethics, it is about morality, it is about the virtue. Then comes Karma. Karma is basically the pleasure which is of the householder. So once you enter into house, once you start a family life, so you have a relationship with your wife, you have children and so on and so forth. And then finally comes the Moksha which is the Nirvana. So only after passing through the Karma you can reach to Moksha. So Karma is very integral part of Hinduism. And I would say for all the religions inclusive but since it was written in Hindu Shastras. Now coming to Kamasutra, so from Karma comes the Kamasutra. So why Kamasutra was written? Kamasutra was written because it was to level the men and women, the man and the woman as a lover because a man and a woman are very different behaviour, be thinking. So there would be a difference in the thinking, there would be a difference when they come together, they come together to form a relationship, they come together to make love. So there is a difference between a man and a woman and in order to bridge that gap, in order to bring more complementarity in the way a man interacts with a woman in a relationship, Kamasutra was written. And Kamasutra actually said this that the secret to a stable family life is a good physical relationship, physically affectionate relationship between a man and a woman. Consequently, if a man and a woman shares a good physical relationship they will have a stable family life and a stable family life leads to a stable society and a stable society leads to a stable kingdom. So all the kings who were commissioned to the throne they would be given a book of Kamasutra because before they go to their palaces and before they meet their wives or tannis they would get a handbook of Kamasutra and there are multiple versions of Kamasutra. So just to tell you that. Thank you, thank you, thank you for introducing us to the theme of today's discussion. But yes, I can see people are joining. So please allow me to start the program officially and then we can go ahead. All right, so I would love to start the program with one of my favorite poem, which I, which I often remember, which I often recall. And I think this poem is very apt and pertinent on this occasion. What will you give to your lover? Do you possess a moonstone or stardust? Have you planted 1000 roses? Have you mapped the earth? To take your lover on a journey full of mirth? No. I don't have a moonstone. No, do I have stardust? I am poor, but I have roses and flowers in all colors. I will be kind to her limbs. I can fill her life with passion. Her organs will thank mine. Her eyes will pick at mine. Her hairs I will brush. Her hairs I will brush, igniting the passion in her soul. Her well merging with my knoll, her mock, just for her pleasure, ever waiting, ever desiring. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, dear friends and students. I, your host, Dr. Aniruddha Babar, welcome all to one of the most special and revolutionary sessions of dot talks webinar series. Today is a very special moment for all of us. Tetsu College has taken a very bold and courageous step in organizing an event where the resource person and the participants will be engaged in discussion on Kamasutra. A book written by Watsaina on ancient and ancient Indian philosopher, a student of religion who lived in India during the second or third century Christian era in Banaras where Buddha gave his first sermon and practiced the seed throughout his life. This webinar, as I was told by some of my senior friends, is going to be the first event of such kind, which is being organized for the first time not only in the state of another land, but also in the entire Nordic region where the ancient text on sects and texts will be openly explored, studied, discussed and debated with the spirit of research and inquiry. Dear friends, Google Kamasutra and it treats out more than 14 million visitors in less than a second. There are Kamasutra condoms, tech toys, wristwatches, app, chocolates, TV series and films. It's the most often thing that Kamasutra is a silly book or a dirty book about sexual poisons and their embarrassed to read it, talk about it and also condemn it, we all know it. However, we from the three platforms created by the Tetsuo College want the reading public and also the common people to know that it is a fascinating book about the subtle interactions between men and women in a highly stabilized world. As Pallavi had just mentioned in her introductory talk that it is full of profound psychological observations and very good advice about how to get married, how to stay married on how to explore sexuality and sexual freedom. Kamasutra is a sophisticated and courageous text which assumes a kind of sexual freedom for women that would have raised the hackles of today's puritanical censors. It is also important to understand that Watsana ignores the idea of sex for procreation and is only concerned with the sexual goal of pleasure. In a way, he challenged the Dharma, the moral duties and responsibilities of fertility, let down in ancient takes the monastery, which saves the man has a duty to have sex with his wife during the fertile period. It also reveals attitude to women's education and sexual freedom and non-judgmental views on homosexual acts that are strikingly more liberal than those of other texts in ancient India or in many cases contemporary India. This astonishingly sophisticated book which was already well known in India at time when Europeans, the white people were still swinging in trees culturally and sexually speaking is very relevant today. The basic psychology strikes true again and again and the level of sexual violence in our world lies out for a book like this to teach us how to control the dark side of sexual impulses and respect the fillings of our sexual partners. In particular, it cautions men against precisely the thought of uncontrolled sexuality that is too often expressed in rape. So yes, dear friends, undoubtedly it is very relevant to the 21st century. To discuss more on the topic, to further enlighten the participants, I invite Ms. Pallavi Banwal to share the wisdom that she has earned over many years of study and contemplation. Ms. Pallavi is an intimacy coach, TEDx speaker, author, columnist and founder of Get Intimacy, a pleasure positive platform, sparking liberated informed discussions and stories on sexuality. She aspires to bring more happiness in the world by bringing clarity, experience and knowledge to the intimate relationships between human beings. Ma'am, thank you for coming. Thank you for accepting our invitation. Now stage is all yours. Please enlighten us. Please reveal the truth to all of us. Thank you very much. Thank you Dr. Anirudh. This was really warm and very exhilarating introduction and I think it's the best start. I was very amazed to see your knowledge of Kamasutra. I am very happy that we are already there somewhere. So yeah, without further ado, let me just share my screen. The first slide talks about the theme of the session and he is our own Kamadeva. He is the God of Love and the parrot is his... He writes on the parrot, the parrot is his pet and he has a lotus and this is how Kamadeva and not many people even worship Kamadeva because again the stigma attached to the sex has also meant that the God of Love is also not worshiped in Indian households. Now let us talk about the story of Kamadeva. So what was the story of Kamadeva? So what happens is there is a demon called Tarakasura and Indra and all the Gods in the heavens were terrorized by this demon Tarakasura who was killing the Gods and who was very, very undefeatable. So everyone was scared of him. So they all went to Shiva and they said that, you know, we need your help and the idea was that if Shiva and Parvati come together and they give us offspring, that offspring will be able to fight the Tarakasura. So they all went and Kamadeva went and Kamadeva wanted to, you know, to break the meditation of Shiva because he was this great ascetic and he was completely aloof of all the pleasure and worldly desires. So the Kamadeva wanted that Shiva should come together and meet with his wife Parvati in an intimate relationship and they provide the son that will ultimately kill Tarakasura. So Kamadeva, if you can see in this picture, the Kamadeva is shooting an arrow, you know, he is using this bow and arrow and he is shooting that arrow to basically break the meditation of the Shiva. And Shiva sees it and Shiva is very furious and Shiva burns the Kamas. So this was the story of Kamadeva. So again the story, so Kamadeva asked all of his companions to go with him, which is Vasanth, Megha, Sugandha, Gandharva. And these are the same elements, like these are the Kamadeva's companions of love. So Vasanth, now imagine the way we think about love and sex these days. We do not think about these elements, we do not think about nature, we think about hotels, we think about toys, we think about very, very slang language. So it has just, I think it has, you know, digressed, it has digressed from the, I would say, Estvail era of this rich, ancient heritage that we all have been carrying and it has been digressed to being a fast food. This is what sexuality has become, this is what intimacy has become these days. So I think this is the time to go back to revisit the past and see what treasures it holds for us to learn in our modern relationships. So the one thing I would like to take away from this slide is we can look at the elements mentioned in the board. Vasanth, which is spring season, Megha, again the rain clouds that optimise romance and desire. Sugandha, which is perfume, which is the breathe. Gandharva, the musicians, the skill masters. So this is the story of the Kamadeva. Now moving further, these are the 64 kills of art. So Kamasutra talks about 64 skills that love, that a lover, that a man and woman should have in order to have a good, healthy relationship. Now why these 64 skills are needed? It is again said that all these 64 arts were created after a lot of deliberation and they are much respected. So any person who is having these 64 arts is considered as a skill lover. And he is worthy of love and respect by his wife and the other wives, other families and the courtesans. So it is said that you need to be really refined in order to be a lover. You need to be refined, you need to be intelligent, you need to be skillful. So all these 64 arts talk about skill, playfulness, refinement, beauty, intelligence. So let's look at what all, I'm not covering all the 64 arts because it's like huge exhaustiveness but I have covered some of them. Okay, I think, okay there is some weight, there is some, okay, okay it's zero. So these are the 64 arts or rather 64 colours of Kamasutra. So the Kamasutra says that a man skilled in 64 arts is looked upon. The idea is respect because it is not said that okay you can simply earn the love of your wife until you are not respected by her. So Kamasutra talks about respect and Kamasutra says respect comes with expertise. Respect is something you don't earn just by the virtue of being her husband. Respect is something you earn by the virtue of your knowledge, your wisdom, your skills which can, you know, captivate your wife, which can actually compliment her and which can woo her. So we actually have lost the significance of wooing or seduction. So it is assumed that okay once a man and a woman get married or they get into a relationship, it is assumed that okay both will remain loyal and both will remain loving but we all know that love relationship, it takes an effort. It is spontaneous of course in the initial days when you feel that high and when you feel that the terminal rush but after a certain point of time you need to work on it. You need to work on all the skills that make it beautiful, that make it abundant, that make it satisfactory. So these are the skills which are also used as skills of seduction, skills of wooing. So if you see some of the skills that I mentioned, say Geet Vidya. So Geet Vidya is basically the art of singing. Then Vaidya Vidya, so Vaidya Vidya is the art of playing musical instruments. Mritya Vidya, the art of dancing. Natya Vidya, the art of theatricals, the union of dancing, singing and playing music. Then comes Alekhya Vidya. So Alekhya Vidya is the art of painting, writing and drawing. And you know all those I would say Udaka Vidya or Udaka Ghata or Pushpas Tarana. Pushpas Tarana is basically the decorating the bed and the flower bed. Nepathya Yoga. So Nepathya Yoga is basically again Nepathya means stage. So you can go and perform on stage. So these are some of the skills that we should have, the lovers should have. Like Bhushana Yojana. So Bhushana means Abhushan which is jewelry. So Panakarasa. Panakarasa means to drink and rasa means juices. So you can prepare different kind of juices. So and these are just I would say 32 skills and there are 32 more skills. So the idea is Bodham was considered detested in the Kamasutra, in the world of Kamasutra. Couples are not meant to be bored with each other. So how can you not bored other person? Now if you have a limited interest you will not be able to hold the attention of the other person. You know you will have just limited topics to talk about, you may talk about politics or you may talk about social media or you may talk about the groceries. Like we know that you know how after settling into the domestic bliss most of the conversations between husband and wife are just restricted to groceries and kids and okay who will get what and you know it's just the household management affairs. We never get into those richer sensual conversations because we lack the knowledge. So Kamasutra says that if you have those 64 hours, if you know about these 64 hours at any time you can always use 3 to 4 hours and there is a high possibility that you enrich your conversation. So for women Kamasutra says that women are turned on by conversations, women like conversations, women like rich conversations. So this is I think maybe you know as a takeaway what we can do is we can actually go and study all these 64 skills and we can actually see that how many skills are we adept at, how many skills do we know? Because when we complain about not having a good romantic life or not having a good relationship we always feel that okay this is something that we are entitled to but entitlement comes also with being deserving. Like how do we know that we deserve it because are we skilled enough? Are we working on our own knowledge or wisdom or diversity of thoughts and ideas? So this is where you need to see and you know for these 64 skills I would leave this as an introspection where you go through the 64 skills it's there on internet and you can see that these are the skills I know and these are the skills I would love to know. Okay now we talk about the modern section vocabulary. See language has a great significance in determining the behavior of the people. The way you think is the way you act. Now if you see our modern section vocabulary I have just mentioned some of the words that we commonly use in today's day. Hump, bank, you know shagging, shagging which is called masturbation. Get laid, hook up, give it up, get it on, you know get in his pants, do the nasty. Get some put out, do it, make love, sleep together, you know pound and some of these are not even mentioned. So bam bam thank you ma'am, fuck off, you know bony, bang. So these are the words that we use and we hear and we read all the day, most of the day on the internet. These are the words and if we have these strong hard words it is a no brainer to say how our approach, how our perception towards the act is. If we are using dirty words we will perceive the act to be dirty. Okay now if you read the vocabulary that has been used in Kamasutra. So the vagina which is the female genitalia it is known as Chandan Mahal. Chandan is basically sandalwood. So it just takes it to a very different level altogether like the, I would say the elevation, you know the elevated language that they use which is the, I would say the refined language. You start acting the way when you start thinking about sexuality, thinking about intimacy in terms of this refined language. The clitoris is known as Madan Chhatri which is the umbrella of the love God. Kama, Rasa, you know all these words, they bring a lot of I would say spirituality, a lot of sensuality, a lot of evocativeness in the realm of intimacy. So now I have something and I would love for people to say that what do you think, what is the difference between these two images? If someone, because I would also want it to be a dialogue and not just a monologue. So anyone if they can share that what is the difference between these two images? Yes, anyone? So what do you think, what is the difference between these two images? Hello ma'am, I can see that this is a Red Bull as an energy drink and this is for like party drinks and the Red Bull isn't like for when you're going for, you want some energy so you drink that. So there is a major difference. Yeah. In terms of sophistication, what do you think which is more sophisticated? I think Red Bull. Red Bull? I don't know, I think so. Okay, so Red Bull is an energy drink and this is the white wine. This is a very, I would say very high level wine and wine is basically wine is used by a lot of connoisseurs who have that elevated taste. And Red Bull is something you can actually go and you can buy in a shop but if you see the glasses, the thin glasses. Even the way it's so delicate like even if you have to hold a glass, you can just maybe carry Red Bull and you can just jump on the bus. But to hold this glass, you have to be slow. You can't just rush with this glass otherwise the glass can break because it's really delicate. So this is the difference and as I said, the way we think is the way we act. Right now we are thinking about relationships, sexuality as a high energy drink. Like, oh, this gives me energy, this gives me instant gratification but we don't talk about the delicacy. We don't talk about slowing down. We don't talk about taking time. So when you're holding this really fragile glass, you know that this is delicate and this is expensive. By expensive, I don't mean by money but by its perceived value. So relationships, when we say relationships are expensive, it doesn't mean that you need to acquire. You know, I'm talking about dowry or I'm talking about the kind of income that the husband is getting or the wife is getting. I'm talking about the perceived value of a relationship in our life. Like, you know, there are only three things that feature top most in our life, which is our career, which is our head and which is the relationship. These three things form the major, major pillars of human life. I mean, if one thing gets, like, you know, gets little off the track, we would, we would lead to, it would lead to unhappiness. Say, if we don't have a great career or if we don't, if you're not able to earn enough, so we need a sustainance. We need to be in good health. We need to be in good health to be able to walk, talk, you know, do other things. And we need to be in good relationships with the family and the society. So, we need to change the perception from being a high energy drink to a subtle, more delicate, more nuanced, more sophisticated experience of society and India. Similarly, with these two images, if you see the standard, you know, junk food, this is the binge food, you can just binge, you can just go to the store and you can buy it. Like, okay, you can have French fries and the burger. Like, if you see these pastries, these are like, you know, these are deserts, these are made by maybe topmost chefs with, you know, very, very, like, the effort has been, like, very focused, very dedicated. Like, if you see the burgers which are made, maybe it takes five minutes to make a burger, but it takes an hour to make such a dish, which means the more the effort, the better would be the outcome. So, again, by using these images, because why I'm using these images, images are very powerful in terms of, you know, creating a memory. So, we need, currently we are at the left-hand side of our perception and understanding about sex and relationship, which is like, it is energy, it is energised, it is fast, it is furious, it is quick. But here, I'm talking about the slowing down, I'm talking about the delicacy, I'm talking about the sophistication. Okay, so what is karma sutra? Karma sutra is about pleasure. It is not about sex. See, sex is, I would say, is an animalistic instinct, which even animals can indulge in the act of sex. But pleasure is something that only a human mind can actually understand and indulge. Pleasure is a longer-lasting thing and it is extremely good for you. You know, it is good for you when you have those conversations, when you just, we have those songs, we have these so many romantic songs of, you know, lovers binding for each other, lovers writing letters to each other, lovers maybe secretly, you know, grabbing the quick look on holding hands or having a warm embrace. So all of it is pleasure. It is supposed to elevate you. You know, it is supposed to take you to certain heights that you can't reach otherwise. Karma sutra is the text, is the treatisee which is written to take you there. It is the treatisee of pleasure. We were, we are the land of karma sutra and we had such a great history of, I would say, the liberated and the revolutionary history where karma sutra was written in 380. But what happened? I mean, why people looked down upon karma sutra? Why? I did a poll on, you know, social media a couple of days back and I said, how many people have read karma sutra? Only 20% people said that they have read karma sutra. 80% people said that they have not read karma sutra. Perhaps because most of them think that, okay, this is a highly sexualized text. So this was, now India was coming as a land of karma sutra. India was invaded by many, many, you know, rulers. So first we had Mughals and then we had the Britishers or the Christians. So now technically we think that India was ruled by Britishers in somewhere around 18th century, which was 1700 something. But before that, much before that we had Dutch, we had Portuguese and it was technically from 15th, 16th century. Now, if you see, this is the chastity belt. This is a western concept of a chastity belt, which was basically to lock a woman's vagina so that she can't have sex with another man when her husband is away. So basically there was a time when women would get locked into this chastity belt and it was considered as a belt of virginity or belt of purity because this woman belongs to this man. So there's a lock-in key. So this was a western concept. Now, if you see the 300 AD karma sutra, Bhatsayana was writing karma sutra and at the same time the Catholic church was set and they set. Pleasure is bad, body is sinful, sex is the road to hell. And Bhatsayana is saying how good is pleasure, how beautiful it is, it is the path to heaven. So as we got invaded, slowly and steadily their morality, their way of life started getting permeating into the Indian fabric and we started thinking of sex as being dirty, sex as every. Now, if you see our, you know, sculptures, erotic sculptures, say Khajuraho or Ajanta and Elora, there are so many sculptures. India has always been very, very open and very, very accepting about sexuality because for India, the body was worshiped. The body allowed, you know, for women it was like, okay, you can actually give birth to this body, men can work through this body. So Indians would worship body. Whereas in Christianity back then it was said that body is sinful because body is about pleasure. You feel pleasure from body, you eat and you, and Christianity was all about, you know, getting beyond that, getting beyond that pleasure to achieve that superior, I would say that enlightenment. So I think this rift has led us here where we are today. Okay, so now I would like to talk about the eight rastas and these rastas are also, these rastas are found in all the human beings. And Kamasutra talks about these rastas, which is Sringara, which is Khasa Rasa, which is Karuna, Radra, Virya, Vibhatsa, Bhanka, Advut and Sant. So all these are the rastas. Now what happens is we always associate the word red with love. But red is not the colour of love. Red is the colour of Radra, which is anger, which is violence, irritation and stress. The colour of love is green, which is the Sringara. And hence you can see that the entire slide has been, you know, I have themed it in the colour of green because green is about serenity. Green is about, you know, sentiments, devotion. Green is about nature. So again, I am trying to reinforce the fact, the understanding, reinforce the understanding that we need to change the way we look at intimacy, we look at sex, we look at sexuality. So acknowledging all these rastas, understanding that, you know, that anger is the colour of red. Peer is the colour of black. And joy is the colour of yellow. Khasa is yellow. And courage, which is Virya, is the colour of orange. So if you see the warriors, they would wear these orange robes and they would have these orange, you know, flats. So basically orange is the colour of courage. So understanding which colours, because typically if you see Valentine's Day or any day, they are all filled with red colour. Now I am not saying that the colour in itself will evoke a certain emotion. But this is again a very ancient science, very associated colours with a certain feeling. So now if we associate red as love, we are bound to experience violence, irritation and stress in our relationships. So we need to associate the colour of love to Shreemgara, which is green, which is serenity, which is peace, which is calmness, which is devotion. Okay. Now let us talk about some of the techniques for seduction, as I said that Kamasutra talks about skills. So I would like to talk about the first of the skills, which is mentioned in the first chapter of Kamasutra. So I have tried to extract certain chapters, which I felt are, can be implemented in today's world. So not everything written there, because now we don't live in palaces, we don't have, I would say, a lot of people who are our friends and companions. So we live in very, I would say, nuclear families, we live in nuclear families, we live in small homes. We actually don't have a lot of time to be able to just gaze at the sun or gaze at the moon. So considering the limitations of today's life, how we can implement Kamasutra, what are the areas where we can implement Kamasutra. And that also leaves us understanding to explore more on the same line. So the first skill of seduction, which is written in Kamasutra, is the art of perfume. So these are the three, you know, plants that are used for perfume in the world of Kamasutra. So the first one, if you see is khas, okay, is the green color shoe, this is the khas. The second is jasmine and the third is crowned flowers. Now each of these flowers have a different significance in arousing the lovers, in preparing the lovers, in bringing that sensuality and those feelings in the lovers. So and each of these have an application on a different part of the body in a different way. So let us learn. So khas, khas is literally the scent of first rains falling on the scorching hot soil. I'll just take a minute for you to really go there and imagine how it feels, how it feels to see the scent of first rains, like the scent of, you know, the mud when it falls on the scorching hot soil. Now the application of khas was on the slightly wet here in the parting of the head. So it was basically applied to a woman or even a man, but in the parting of the head because that was considered as the well of sexual desire. So khas is applied to slightly wet here in the morning before it was rolled out in a bun because back then even men would have longer ears. So now we have replaced these natural perfumes with deos and very, very strong ordered perfumes like, you know, fragrances. So these are the natural fragrances and Kama Sutra actually emphasizes that the scent is everything. You know, you should have beautiful scents around you because it actually opens your mind, it relaxes your mind, it soothes your mind. So maybe we can have, we can start experimenting with these scents. We can get, we can order it and we can start using those scents in our daily life. The second is, as I said, it's Jasmine. So Jasmine has its application on the neck and it conjured an image of innocence. Now what happened was in 18th century, the prostitutes like in 18th century English, these, you know, English civilization in Britain and other countries, the prostitutes were given Jasmine because they wanted to come as, you know, clean and innocent women so that men can come and they can have sex with them. Now because prostitutes start using Jasmine as a scent, the upper class women stopped using it because they thought, oh, it is something used by the prostitutes. So I'm not going to use it but this is Jasmine conjures an image of innocence. The third is Okan or crown flower. Basically this is applied on the curve of the vase because it is a much larger space and it can be applied in the dab, little dabs, you know, like you can actually use your fingers and you can make the little decorations on the vase. So, you know, if you see the time, if you see the time, if you see the thought that has gone through in making those practices, it talks about how serious and how important relationships were in the world of Kama Sutta. And like, you know, right now you just have a quick spray, you can just make a spray, you can put it in your underarms and you are done. It was elaborate, kill, you know, perfuming was an elaborate skill. It took time, patience and attention. So we have to bring all those elements that love, love making relationships need time, patience, attention, skill, delicacy, commitment, devotion. We need to start thinking on those terms because as I said, how we think is how we behave. Okay, the second slide talks about the energies. So, Kama Sutta says that, as I said, sex is an act but sexuality is more than sex, pleasure is more than sex. So, Kama Sutta talks about the differences between men and women as lovers. So, the difference is in the form of energy. A man's sexual energy is like fire. You know, it's quick to ignite and quick to put out. A woman's passion is like water. It's very slow. It takes a lot of time to come to the boil and takes equally long time to come down. So, her potential of arousal is eight times that of a man. She has the eight times capacity, then a man to feel sexual. But now if we talk about the society, we say women are numb or they don't participate or they are so shy. They are so inhibited. It's all a man's job. It's masculine because she has not been understood. The difference has not been understood. The difference has not been celebrated. Pond has taken away all the differences between a man and a woman and Pond has created sex from a masculine point of view. So, this is why when a relationship fades, when a relationship is not working, a woman's detachment starts happening from sex. Sex is the first place where she starts withdrawing herself because for her, as I said, it's slow. It is simmering. It's like slowly and steadily it spreads. You know, like it boils. It is not quick. Like she can't prepare herself for love making or for loving her lover unless she feels ready in her set when it takes time. So, understanding the difference between a man and a woman and the way their energies play out is key to the success of an intimate relationship. And I tell you what, you know, when we are talking about Kamasutra and we talk about these things, I personally feel that in today's world when relationships have got a very low shelf like we are, we have arrived in an era of hookups, casual sex, and we don't want to stay invested and committed in the relationship. I think once you start getting on this road, once you start learning more about love, intimacy relationship, you would actually start enjoying a person's company more and more because it was your limited understanding when you felt that, oh, I have discovered all there is to discover and I'm getting bored with this person. Now, when you see that, oh, there is so much to discover, you actually want to be in a steady relationship because you have the opportunity to stay together, to experiment together, to learn together. And I think this is definitely, I would say, a test and it is something as an attestation to the stability of relationships. Like if we really deep dive into the world of Kamasutra, it stabilizes our relationships because now we know that to be able to explore more, you need to be with someone and there has to be a steady relationship. You can't do this with on-the-go lovers. You can't do this with someone you have just met. You need those conversations and conversations take time as I showed in that, you know, the difference between the burger and that dessert that it takes time. So it actually helps in stabilizing the longevity of the relationship. Okay. So anyone can share that who is this goodest? Can anyone identify this goodest in the group? Can I say? Yes, yes. I think she is Ma Saraswati. Great. Yes, Saraswati. Correct, correct. So while we are showing Saraswati in a session of Kamasutra, a lot of people know that the patron deity of Kamasutra is Kamadeva, which is not right. The patron deity, Kamasutra is the God of love and desire. But the patron deity of Kamasutra is Saraswati, the goodest of music and learning because as I said that Kamasutra was originally intended, it was written for men because women could not read and write at that time. So Kamasutra says that you can be rich, you can be anything, but only a man who is culturally really well-versed, he is the most desirable lover of all. So which means a man has to be adept in music and all the 64 skills of learning and Saraswati is the goodest of music and learning. Now, how many of us knew that? I would like to open this question. How many of us knew that Saraswati was the deity of Kamasutra? It was mentioned in Kamasutra that Saraswati is the deity, principle deity of Kamasutra. How many of us knew that? Dr. Anirudh? Oh, well, I was aware about it. From you I have more explanation. Because see, when we speak about Kamasutra, see different colors as we read out the text. And interpretation matters a lot, because the symbols have been given, the text have been given, the words have been given. So there is so much to integrate and so much to understand with reference to our limited understanding. So somewhere I feel that as you rightly mentioned about so many things, including that of the patron deity of Kamasutra also, right? But we understand, you know, more Saraswati in different contexts. But what is the context in which the Kamasutra identifies Saraswati? I think that is very important, in which you have rightly explained it. I am happy for that. Yeah, so again, the idea is because there are so many myths that we have internalized about Kamasutra. You know, people say, like people reach out to me and say, ma'am, tell me which sex position. And I really feel very sad about them because see, this is something that we have lost out. We have lost out on this rich, you know, legacy that we have, India was blessed with. I think India is the only country in the whole world that had a courtesy written on sex, you know, 3,000 years back. So I think maybe it's not late than never, but it's very difficult task to go back in time. But I'm glad that at least I hope that, you know, after the session, people will start seeing Kamasutra in a new light one that helps them stabilize the relationships. So, yeah, so this was, again, one of the, you know, knowledge that I wanted to share that Saraswati and love are related. Saraswati, we generally associate with career. Like, you know, parents say, oh, today Saraswati puja go and worship Saraswati so that you can have a great career. But have we connected Saraswati to relationship? You know, have we connected that in order to have a successful, beautiful, fulfilling relationship, you also need to be learned? Because then you are able to under, you will not be prejudiced, you will not be biased, you will not be arrogant. You will be more receptive, you know, with the knowledge, it actually makes us more receptive because now our mind has opened, you know, the idea is of opening the mind, opening the mind more and more where we can start noticing a lot of things around us. So, now we will understand that Saraswati, the goodness of music and learning is also the deity of love and relationships. Okay. So, lover's secret code. Again, this is from the conversations it says that I have taken. So, a lot of psychologists psychologists have said that couples and lovers who have a secret code have a fulfilling relationship. Why we need a secret code? Because the secret code serves as an internal channel of communication between the two people. Which means even if you are sitting in a room full of people, even if you are in a crowd, even if you are in a big bang, marriage ceremony, you can still talk to your lover in a way that only two of you know. So that builds a very different kind of intimacy. And Kamasutra heavily relies on you know food, spices, condiments, gestures to create that secret love language. So, for instance, Kamasutra talks about Paan and talks about you know different kind of Paan, bring out different feelings. They if you see the desperately love, if you want to communicate someone, communicate to someone that your lover or you know the object of your desire that you are desperately in love with them. So it's basically a love invitation. So you send them a Kaushal Paan. If you want to set up a date, you send them an Ankush Paan. Now every Paan is different. Now what I meant to say is in today's context, when I say that how do we apply these concepts in today's context. You can just look around and you can pick up an object, something as a person's favorite. It could be a rose, it could be you know any other object, any other it could be milk, anything you feel like okay, it could be cumin, it could be healthy. You can actually pick anything that you feel like of you know something from food or spices and you can associate, you can connot a meaning to it and you can actually share it with your lover that you know the next time I do this you know okay this is what I meant and this also relies less on the usage of words and more on the gestures because sometimes we all know that words get misinterpreted and words create that anger also like you know there is too and fro fight of battles, battles between the sexes happening like you said that, I said this and we just engage in those really really theory fights. So Kamasudha just takes away the words and it just talks about the cues you know the things and this is where seduction is because back then if you remember in the early days you might not be, we didn't have WhatsApp, we didn't have you know the Instagram or we didn't have it, we can't communicate digitally and then we would rely on these gestures like okay there is a secret meeting, oh she knows that I am interested in her or he knows that I am interested in him. So we actually relied on a lot on cues and gestures and I think sometimes silence is the best recipe for love, silence is the best I would say antidote to any kind of conflict. So if you cannot be silent if you still want to convey your emotions maybe choose an object next time throw maybe you know throw a pillow on him like a very soft cushion on him like and this means that oh I am angry with you now he is not going to bounce back because you are also showing your love in that anger you know so this is again I lead to each one of you that how you can maybe you know customize how you can tailor these cues and gestures to your own taste and your own comfort in your own relationship build on that, build this in your relationship, build this secret code in your relationship. So again the rest of it you can see like you know even for breaking up they would send a bond that was torn in the middle so they use less on words and more on gestures again the lifetime commitment a pun tied in the red so you could see that you know how much importance we have given to each and every act of love be it communication be it perfuming every act has it has got a lot of detailed detailed you know investigation to how to build this craft okay so then further love quotes these are some of the you know objects so one is this is called beetle nut also katha, kattichu this is cardamom this is bamboo shoot this is bunch of grapes this is cotton fruit and this is cumin all these objects have different meanings in kama sutra so if you want to indicate love you will give your lover a pouch of beetle nut or heart supari see how beautiful it is like you know to receive this as a gift and know that what it means and no one else in the room knows that okay so your privacy your confidentiality is maintained and you are also able to express it I think and this was written you know 5000-3000 years back and I am like at that time this was the level of learning and you have just lost it all this is the great tragedy that has happened to modern India that we have lost touch with our ancient the second is cardamom which is used to convey passionate love bamboo shoot feverish passion which is like a hookup or a booty call or like I want you right now these were exchanged by the lovers these are given by the lovers to convey their inner feelings bunch of grapes I am all yours again cotton fruits again I give you my life cumin cumin is a spice and cumin is being used by be careful I think someone suspects and haldi is actually the opposite of cumin haldi means that everything is fine things are normal so like the danger is signified by cumin and assurance was signified by turmeric or haldi how we can use and maybe we can use some of these and we can incorporate in our love and just have a conversation have a conversation with your partners today or with your friends today and tell them that this is what you have learned and this is what you have known and maybe start implementing it I don't think that this is really hard to do you can just pick one and just out of playfulness and maybe even for fun you can just try it and see how it is so finally we are at the concluding slide so what is the game through all this knowledge the short knowledge that we are able to share in this session first thing we need to know that I am me and you are you what happens is when we talk to the other person we feel that they should understand me or the other person thinks that he or she should understand me so we always have this difference of identities I think in a different way she thinks in a different way and our thinking are not aligned Kamasutra basically aligns it because Kamasutra says that you need to understand that your partner is not you he or she is a different being we are two different beings with two different viewpoints two different perspectives towards life we have to understand that there could be two different opinions in the same house or in the same relationship we have to learn to accept those differences we cannot eradicate we cannot merge we cannot let the other person think through our own way of course yes you need to come together somewhere but this would not be merging this would be somewhere in parallel this cannot be merging so you need to understand that there are two different people and again the second thing is like sometimes a lot of people say I need to do this because she wants me to do this I need to do this because he wants me to do this but sometimes we have to think that what we are doing is also benefiting you because it is ultimately in the interest of the relationship that you are doing it is not in the interest of that person it is in the interest of your relationship with that person you are related to that person and relationship belongs to both of you so you are doing something for the relationship and relationship belongs to you so you are ultimately doing something for your own self We need to understand that and the thirdly as I said the idea of more conversations women like conversations women like to be good by conversation So I give you an example if a man receives a text message on whatsapp so the man will read the text as a text The woman on the other hand will analyze that text she will see where is the full stop where is the punctuation mark what does the first line mean what does the second line mean is it different she will do the analysis and this is how we are this is how our nature is so as men we need to understand our women that men and women are two different beings and Kamasutra celebrates that difference it celebrates a different and the art of seduction is basically about bringing lovers together in all their differences and how do we align those differences without eliminating someone's identity like you I don't need to change your identity to be you know have a good relationship or you need to forsake your identity to be in a relationship how can we have our own identities and how can we live a harmonious relationship this is what Kamasutra is about okay so I think yes you are done and you are on time yes thank you thank you so much and when we think about you know the overall scenario and the context that you have laid down upon which you have discussed the Kamasutra that is really amazing but I think that is at the basic level we can really go deeper because Kamasutra is about the human psychology it is about sociology it is about economics also because it has spoke about you know the role of a woman a married lady in the household how household management can be done it is also being spoken about that right but now we are opening our session for the questions so I request to the participants if you have any questions you can share with all of us so that ma'am can answer them but before they ask a question let me ask you one question from my side right 21st century social scenario social settings and the context right we are having a very quick life a very fast life okay and see this text this ancient text was written with 380 right it speaks about selection it speaks about the love making context right and somewhere I feel that it may or may not be possible considering a fast paced life but I still believe that today's modern generation is missing out something right they may be aware about sexual postures or relations or rather in double ended comma the F word right but what they are missing what they are missing sensuality what they are missing is the oneness what they are missing is a kind of sensual yet sexual unity so somewhere I feel that Kamasutra was not just written from physical perspective you know as I just said in my introduction also that Kamasutra has actually given wings to the woman also right it doesn't talk about sex in terms of procreation it also talks about sex in terms of liberation in terms of experience in terms of learning from the experience and making life and relationship beautiful right so in this context right how do you see the relevance of Kamasutra forget about the postures forget about the positions but the text the text and its relevance how do you see I think one thing is like there was a lot of effort you know taken to write Kamasutra it was not something someone wrote it is thoroughly scientifically written and it talks about our basic nature as men and women so you know we spend a lot of time in educating ourselves like educating, preparing us for our careers but do we have we spend time in preparing us for our relationships people just come into a relationship with the understanding of a junk food diet something they have seen their dysfunction families or parents or you know this or something in film and you would not believe the kind of I was talking to a psychotherapist yesterday and she said you cannot underestimate the impact of films that have on our subconscious mind so we end up consuming those films we end up consuming Netflix and we see that this is what it has to be it has to be four more shots it has to be a very fast paced and this is what exactly you are saying so I would say that if we are able to connect to our roots you know Kamasutra is our root you only get nurtured from your root you can't get nurtured from of course you know you are taking some oxygen here and there but your roots are in your the ancient the ancient legacy that we are carrying that you know five thousand years back so I think Kamasutra is about revisiting our roots connecting to our own roots this is what I would like to say that's very apt that's very relevant any any question yes I have a question may I please ask sure sure please go ahead yes hello good afternoon Pallavi and Dr. Babar this is Gaurav guest faculty from the English department and Pallavi it was extremely it was an extremely enriching session thank you so much for this wonderful session it was I just loved it every bit of it and I learned a lot of things definitely I just have two basic questions the first one I think has almost been answered or raised by Dr. Babar and you as well so the first one is you definitely agree that Kamasutra from a postmodern perspective or even from the historical context in which it was written it is a feminist discourse you can say a major feminist discourse talking about women's sexuality liberation and offering perspective from their point of view this is my first question maybe you could point out a few instances to support this the second question is if you could probably point out a few instances on representation of same sex love and relationships and Kamasutra the entire LGBTQI perspective okay thank you yes so so I would like to take the second question first and then the first so Kamasutra talks about pleasure and it talks about what gives a man pleasure and what gives a woman pleasure it doesn't talk about that you know is it between two men or is it between two women it talks about what I as a woman it feels pleasurable to me so it can be given by the other woman or it can be given by a man so in a heterosexual relationship so it mostly talks about pleasure in by the self you know it is self and Kamasutra talks a lot about awareness awareness as in so you know a lot of times we are numb we are numb and we don't even know what we want and we don't we feel okay this is something which is supposed to give me pleasure and this is supposed to give me gratification but I really don't know so Kamasutra is more about awareness opening up the mind by more observation observing like you know things around you being really sensitive to the little stimuli around you so in terms of the LGBT community they talk about they talk about the Unux so Unux there is a chapter where a king can go so basically these are transgenders so considering it was written way back in time so they say that king a king can go to a transgender and you know they can actually get themselves pleasured by the transgender for certain acts which they cannot get from their wives so it kind of actually distinguishes between the transgenders and the wife saying that okay for this maybe say oral sex you can't get it from your wife because it is considered unhealthy it is not considered obscene but it is unhealthy or so for this you can go to a transgender but other than that in terms of pleasure I think knowing that okay if I'm a man see if I'm a gay man or if I'm a heterosexual man it doesn't change my biology you know it doesn't change how I perceive pleasure it's my romantic inclination to the other person but how I perceive pleasure remains the same it's not that a gay man and a heterosexual man experiences pleasure in different ways being a man they will experience pleasure in the same way but different sexual partner this is what Kamasutra has talked about the second thing is how it has been empowering for the woman so Kamasutra talks a lot about it is the woman who would decide what kind of pressure what kind of aggression that she is willing to endure it is not about the man so they say oh man has to slow down throughout the book they are talking about the man has to slow down slow down he has to like move the woman he has to be really slow with his touches gentle touches so it is the woman who will decide the kind of aggression that the man is using on her sexual violence it is said that in one of the chapters it is written that you know you cannot do this to a lover because a king did this to his courtesan and she was blinded or she died so you can't do this to a lover I mean imagine they actually talk about references that you can't do this to a woman because so and so king did this to his courtesan and she was like you know she was blinded or whatever the inappropriate consequences so the sexual violence it is the woman who decides what is good for her what is good for her to receive in her body and she has to tell the man in fact there is this very you know it is very amusing example also being given that if a man is biting a woman like love bite and the woman feels that she is being bitten too hard she will bite back the man until he leaves her so you know the way they have empowered the woman like you know the way they have given the language like right now we are so stiff like we can't talk about it I know like lot of people they have sex but they can't talk about it Kamasutra starts from being comfortable with the conversation around it giving the like very very bold but not I would not say it is not obscene it is bold in the sense that it talks about the reality so I hope that answers your question yes definitely thank you so much that was really good question and equally powerful and to the point answer thank you so much another question from my side see Pallavi often you know Indian women are not empowered to look at sex through the prism of pleasure right and women who do are slightly shamed what are your thoughts please I think I believe the stories play a big role in forming our identities you know the kind of stories we hear around us what happened is with the advent of patriarchy the kind of stories that got glorified were of Draupadi and Sita so Sita you know as sacrifice like she is sacrificing and Draupadi is again you know she is being obedient and she was called they never had their own agency and so is Lakshmi you see Lakshmi she is a domesticated wife and this is the reason why we call why we say that if a bride comes into home we say Lakshmi or if a daughter is born we say Lakshmi I hope I mean northeast you are familiar with this because in north India we do you know address we connect women to Lakshmi so why Lakshmi why not Kali why not Durga why don't we say a woman when she you know gets married and when she comes in our house we say that oh Durga we don't say we don't even say Kali I like we don't say Kali has come because Kali is supposed to be this ferocious and she is bouncing on the chest of the Shivayana like you know she does this like taking out her tongue she is the strong persona so we associate the kind of stories that patriarchy has woven around women is more of servility like you know women are survival and these are the stories that get like really glorified as Ram and Sita Sita is that you know she is like really submissive and really dedicated and she listens to Rama and Rama comes to rescue her so Sita cannot rescue by herself she needs one Rama to rescue her Kali doesn't need anyone to rescue Durga doesn't need anyone to rescue so you know again we are not glorifying those stories even in terms of relationship we always say Ram and Sita and Durga is always seen as alone because Durga is powerful Lakshmi and Vishnu Durga is alone Kali is also alone so we really don't show those powerful women with their male companions you know companions that's the one thing is the kind of stories that we have woven around what are our role models you know what kind of role models we have in patriarchy that women can look up to not enough role models secondly about if a woman is trying to reclaim her agency reclaim that okay her sexuality I think it's more of a see society has created a protection okay the idea when we like really restricted sexual activity it was to protect a certain weaker section of people like it was said that back in those days the man who was really powerful claimed the most number of women so he can sleep with more than 10 women whereas the weaker men you know the unattractive men they could not get a partner so society said okay everyone should get a partner and then we created monogamy now again so it is more of a social protection scheme which has like really been you know it's kind of a straight jacket it has been like really stiff but it is it was originally conceived as a social protection scheme that women need you know a steady partner to have to raise a child because we know that human children human kids need a much more time than an animal offspring so again to get man invested in the relationship because man can choose to be sexually reckless not a woman because she has she can get pregnant and she has to carry so the consequences for sexual act is higher for a woman so I would say we also have to understand why society has created those restrictive norms it is to protect us but yes at the same time now with growing you know disposable income as I said that the protection is always meant for the weaker sections of the society not the stronger sections but stronger sections also have to comply because they also live in the society so they also need protection but they are somewhere they are little bit I would say they are little bit reckless with their own agency of their own freedom so I think we have to see both the pros and cons the pros is the social protection that we are getting in terms of keeping the family structure intact the con is like the assume one size fits all which is wrong thank you and one more question from my side which would be a last question let us see there is no more question and I am asking this question because of certain observations I have made in the society okay since I deal with younger generation as a professor I was also a practicing lawyer in the in the high court and I came across various marital disputes also so from the perspective of this two context my legal experience as a lawyer where I encountered various women who were undergoing mental trauma mental stress some violent behavior victim of some of them were violent victim of violent behavior of their husbands and on the other hand now I am dealing with younger generation who are confused right they are confused about their own body they are confused about their own sexuality they are equally confused about their own sexual expressions and also they are highly influenced by the pornographic culture see let me just confess that you know from my personal experience right I started learning about sex by just by just made an accident I came across the book of Kamasutra which was there in the cupboard of our house right where back in 97 or 98 I was in class 7 and I didn't understand much right but when I look back I realized that that was the best thing that has happened in my life because I found the treasure of knowledge therefore considering all this you know issues you know what do you think I mean how a younger generation you know could be educated that is point number one and second is how married women could be enlightened how they could be how they could be counseled right because the sex plays a very important role and many a times our we have understood that our society is a male dominated society men do not understand their responsibilities in the bedroom and I am very vocal about that what is your take on it I think you are right in fact I was doing this workshop with you know someone a sex educator Habib Akande he is from Nigeria and he said that in their country men take it as a privilege like you know to be able to good love like I can please my wife they actually take this as a privilege like they have to do it India it is assumed that men are entitled again because of patriarchy and women are submissive and we end up playing those roles so I would not blame men that you know men particularly men are like that men are raised to be like that women are raised to be like that so it's basically a you know a product of upbringing and circumstances so really I can't say that he is at fault or she is at fault it's it's just the way they have been raised now how a married woman can be enlightened see I do talk about how what is easy to do you know something where I would say there are a lot of films acclaimed films that are made on women sexuality so I would like to talk about a film of which is made by Aparna saying that has actually changed my life like in the way how a married woman is that she is a sexual being she was she was a sex object you know so she was not a sexual being she was a sex object and her husband would come and sleep and they would have a typical domestic life and she would have like the keys of the house she would manage all the servants everyone felt that she was in power because she is managing the house she is managing this big house her children used to respect her but she would feel empty because she was not loved as a woman she was rather seen as a sex object so that movie the transformation of she actually I mean this this I would say that the reason for transformation was she had an affair so I'm not saying that okay every married woman had to have an affair but you need to see the story to see that okay you can understand you can have a voice you know when I was married and I was I would like to share my personal story also that I was in a 7 year old marriage and that was like 5 year it was sex less marriage 5 year I did not have any sex you know in the prime of my life 37 now and I was 28 at 20 29 30 31 32 so 5 years no sex because I was hugely disconnected and I did not know what to do I did not have a voice I did not know how to put it out I would get angry but I think it's more about empowering myself with with a voice my own inner voice a lot of things we are not able to express because in India we are repressed India is a repressor site okay we are not encouraged to express our emotions we may express it but there is something that holds us back so maybe you need to like really confront yourself you need to wake up you need to wake up and see because we know the truth somewhere we know but we can't accept it because when I look back I knew something was going wrong but I was too scared to accept it because I felt there is no other way but there is a way and the way has to come from within so I would say have a dialogue with yourself at least come to terms come to terms with your own reality what are you facing and once you accept that there are people to help you around so maybe I would say seek coaching seek therapy you know talk to experts who are in relationship experts and reach out for help but first you need to come to terms you need to you cannot be living in denial and just surrendering like resigning I would say people resign and what about younger generations okay okay when they are muddled all right they I think you know certain cases they have definitely made a way ahead in terms of women are having more you know power in terms of expression so something definitely we have we have made some in road in terms of sexual expression now sexual liberation is not sexual recklessness I always say sexual you can be sexually liberated even when you are in a monogamous relationship you can you may not be sexually liberated even if you have a string of hookups the sexual liberation is understanding what works for you what doesn't work for you so I would say we can have a forum we can have a forum where because we really need those you know young people they look up to adults for that advice for that you know we would love to hear experience of our seniors like okay how it was for you now I am transitioning into an adulthood and I am in my early 20s so how I see life ahead of me so I think there is definitely a very glaring need for a forum or a channel of conversation where they come together and they just talk and there is a trusted adult there is a trusted informed adult who can help them navigate through these issues and through differences so I think yes maybe a sex ed workshop we can do a sex ed workshop for these young people we can ask for them their queries and we can you know introduce a basic sex education that the value framework like something that I do in my sex ed workshops is I talk about a value framework now these values are not learned these values are not acquired these values are developed by your own self so every person can have their own set of values and these values help them take the decisions in their own well being minimizing the error of a mistake I would not say you cannot make a mistake being a human you will you are ought to make mistakes and you need to turn those mistakes into learning but how do you minimize it you cannot avoid it but you can minimize it so I think maybe a sex ed workshop will help for these youngsters good idea it's really a good idea okay after this program we can have a talk on it and we will see how we can invite you to another land and we can organize a nice program with the younger generation because a few days back when it happened here where in a girl was raped and murdered and I got very disturbed because our society in Nagaland is considered is relatively you know a very liberal society you know free minded people are here you know people are actually when it comes to the relationships they're really open minded rather enlightened more enlightened than what we could experience in Delhi or in the mainland region so when such incidents happen in a very liberal society in a very free society like ours in Nagaland so it is very natural for me to get disturbed and then I had a thought that will the knowledge that has been created some thousands of years ago could help the society, could help the people, could help the young generation to understand true as true and untrue as untrue could their desires, could that energy which is there inside them could be diverted in the most productive way as has been described in the Kamasutra text so that was the question wasn't there and definitely you know we will have another forum to discuss about it anyway if there is no more question then I declare that the program has been successfully conducted and I'm really really thankful to Pallavi for her time and most importantly the knowledge the purpose of organizing this program is of course to introduce to the ancient texts of the Kamasutra at least at the basic level to the people to the participants right but most importantly I am basically thankful to her because she has channelized new thinking she has channelized new aspect new perspective so that when people go back to their homes when they close their eyes they would at least have some thoughts about this ancient text written by someone called Vasayana you know thank you so much Pallavi for your time and to the participants also we have 25-26 participants and now we have 14 participants but yes many of them have listened to you very well I will definitely share the feedback with you oh by the way Rinsit if you have a feedback form can you please share it with the participants please do that or you can email them also Rinsit it is for you okay Pallavi thank you so much and thank you all have a great evening ahead and have a productive evening ahead thank you so much