 Hey everybody, tonight we're debating whether or not evolution is ubiquitous and we're starting right now. For another epic debate, if this is your first time here at Modern Day Debate, want to let you know I'm your host James Coons and we are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. Providing a platform, our vision, our goal is to provide an equal playing field for everybody to make their case on. And so, want to let you know as well, no matter what walk of life you are from, Christian, atheist, agnostic, Jedi and even Sith, we hope you feel welcome, we're glad you're here and with that, we're going to get into a couple of quick channel housekeeping things. First, if this is your first time here or maybe your 50th time here, consider hitting that subscribe button as we have many epic debates coming up. 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One, we have limited time, so we're probably only going to get to about seven questions, we want serious questions only please, as that really does add value in terms of substantive questions that adds value to the show itself and then also, want to let you know, always folks, want to encourage you, attack the arguments not the people and also, want to let you know both of our guests are linked in the description. So, I'm going to give them a chance as I introduce them, we're thrilled to have you back, Kent Hovind, it's been quite a while and so we're excited to have you and if you'd be willing to share what people can expect to find at your link in the description, thanks again for being here Kent. Well, thanks for having me, I'm sorry for the confusion in the schedule last time, I wasn't on my calendar, it's my fault, I didn't tell the secretary, but glad to be here. I'm Kent Hovind, I've been a Baptist preacher 46 years, I taught high school science and math 15 years, I believe the Bible is true and the evolution theory is the dumbest and most dangerous religion in the history of the world. Never been a dumber idea to then teach everybody we all came from Iraq and you're related to a mosquito. Anyway, so our website drdino.com has all kinds of stuff to document that the Bible is true, evolution is crazy, we talk about the original creation, what was it like, why did they live so long, where dinosaurs fit in, you can come visit our dinosaur adventure land in Lenox, Alabama, if you can find it, straight north of Pensacola, 70 miles and we'd love to have you come down and visit, it's all free, all kinds of cool science lessons, we've got a science center and museum that'll blow your mind and activities that are just incredible teaching, giving God the glory for His creation. You've got it, thanks for being with us again Kent and we'll kick it over to Donald, thanks again Donald for being with us, thrilled to have you, if you can let people know what people can expect to find at your link in the description. Me? Absolutely, so thank you very much Donald, both of our guests are linked in the description and we do appreciate them and so with that, Kent is going first, our format is fairly flexible so we have an eight minute opening from each side followed by about 45 minutes of open conversation and then 20 minutes of Q&A, so I have got the timer set for you Kent and the floor is all yours for your opening statement. Well thank you for having me James and thank you Donald for doing this, I'm curious you said your name is Donald Arthur Cronos but it says you're born Donald Arthur Newman, I don't know if that means you got married and changed it or what happened there but anyway, your website now your voted for Bernie Sanders, that tells me a lot right there, you said you're saying Charles Darwin was wrong even though you have no idea what he said and therefore God created this universe and Donald Cronos, there's his website if you want to go to a YouTube channel I guess, so you got the different pictures of him with a beard, I couldn't figure out which one I'm debating here, anyway thank you for coming, ubiquitous is evolution ubiquitous? Ubiquitous means it's present appearing or found everywhere, in other words just everything is evidence for evolution, well I think the evidence that God's word is true and that plants and animals would always bring forth after their kind, now that evidence is found everywhere, that is truly ubiquitous, my position is that God made everything in six days, he said in the Ten Commandments, remember the Sabbath for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is the stars, the dinosaurs, everything made in six days, you can see my video series where I have 18 hours on this topic answering all kinds of questions, defending the Bible as being true, our question answer number 10, video number seven has a lot five hours long on all about the starlight and what about carbon dating and stuff like that, we believe dinosaurs lived with man, so is evolution ubiquitous, well that depends what you mean by the word evolution, this is my debate number 229 for me and I've learned you have to define what you're talking about, what do you mean by evolution, do you mean cosmic evolution, the origin of time-space matter from the big bang where nothing exploded, no cosmic evolution is the term they use for the origin of everything, I think there's absolutely no evidence for cosmic evolution, that matter can create itself out of nothing, there's no evidence for that, it's not ubiquitous, it's dumb, it doesn't happen, there's zero scientific evidence for cosmic evolution, do you mean chemical evolution where this big bang produced hydrogen and that hydrogen turned into all the other elements, chemical evolution, there's no evidence of any of this, of any elements being able to create themselves or get into higher elements, if the big bang were true, it produced hydrogen, maybe some helium and lithium, well how do you get to iron, you can't fuse past iron, iron cannot be fused into anything heavier because of the insane amounts of energy and force required to fuse iron atoms from futurism.com, so no, there is no evidence of chemical evolution, the evidence chemicals forming themselves or combining beyond iron is zero, it is not ubiquitous, do you mean stellar evolution that the stars can form, they certainly talk about stellar evolution in the textbooks and on the internet there's quite a bit about stars evolving, the silent embarrassment of modern astrophysics is we don't know how a single one of these stars managed to form, nobody knows how stars evolve, nobody, they have some theories that maybe the gases get together and light up, it's pure imagination, typical star exists for billions of years, well they can believe that if they want, there's no evidence of any star forming, the origin of stars is an unsolved problem for contemporary astrophysics, it's been a problem all along, no one knows how a star's formation proceeds, it's remarkable, it doesn't happen, it's never been observed, so is the evidence for stellar evolution ubiquitous, no, there's no evidence for a star forming and we got enough stuff to go three days on here, I want to get to the point here, right, hang on, okay, so is evolution for stellar evolution, is there evidence, no, it's not ubiquitous, what about organic evolution, life starting from non-living material, there is no evidence of how life can start from non-living material, nobody knows how a mixture of lifeless chemicals spontaneously evolved into a living cell, nobody knows and I've got plenty of stuff on my seminar part four about the primordial soup and the so-called evolution coming from non-living material to living material, so is that what you mean by evolution, that life can come from non-life, no, that is certainly not ubiquitous, no evidence, the Bible says God created life, okay, then the last two, here we go, macroevolution, can an animal change to a different kind of animal or a plant change to a different kind of plant, macroevolution refers to large-scale evolution, for some this means the origin of species, for others it means large-scale change of scene in the fossil record, I would point out there's no such thing as a fossil record, there are fossils by the bazillions, but it's not a record, none of them talk, none have a date stamped on them, there is no fossil record, okay, so are you talking about macroevolution where animals can change to a different kind of animal, there's no evidence for that, it's not ubiquitous, kennel association recognized 339 breeds of dogs, they might have had a common ancestor called a dog, okay, dogs, wolves and coyotes might have had a common ancestor and a four-year-old can tell you a dog, a wolf and a coyote is the same kind of animal, it's got four legs and hair on the outside and a tail at the back end, it's a dog, so evidence for God's word is true that plants and animals will always bring forth after their kind, now that is ubiquitous, it's found everywhere, the evidence is overwhelming, 10 times in the very first chapter of the book it says they will bring forth after their kind, that's all anybody has ever seen, Charlie Darwin wrote a book and called it the origin of species, oh no there's where the trick came in, speciation happens but it's limited to the same kind, is microevolution true, ah now that one is true, microevolution is a lousy word, we should not use it but they do, so let's explain it, changes within a species or small group of organisms, especially over a short period, what is an example of microevolution, pesticide resistance, herbicide resistance, antibiotic resistance, all examples of microevolution, it's still the same plant or animal in every case, mosquitoes have become resistant to certain pesticides they spray on them, okay, average male sparrow size, it's larger up in Minnesota, well yeah because it's cold and the large body type is necessary to maintain body heat, it's still a sparrow, that's not evolution, graph illustrates changes in global temperature from 1880 to 2000 and the mosquito population varied, it's still a mosquito, so there are, let's see how many different varieties of ducks, I forget how many, probably quite a few, right maybe 50 or so, they're still a duck, so the evidence that God's word is true and the animals will always bring forth after their kind is ubiquitous, now that is everywhere, there are 50 varieties of watermelons now and the evidence that they came bring forth after their kind is everywhere, watermelons always produced baby watermelons without exception, if watermelons, they are, they does not prove that watermelons are related to whales, like you evolutionists believe with your SpongeBob wild imagination, there are about 500 kinds of mangoes, they might have had a common ancestor called a mango, God said they'd bring forth after their kind, there are 7500 varieties of apples and they might have had a common ancestor called an apple, that is ubiquitous, okay, what about the types of wasps, 17,000 varieties of wasps, wow, 17,000, 3,000 varieties of tomatoes, no 15,000 varieties worldwide, might have had a common ancestor, tomato, but you guys put lines on your paper and say aha look at this, the wasp and the whale have a common ancestor, that is pure imagination, you're absolutely lying to the children, tell them I said so, that is a bold face lie, God said he created all the animals to bring forth after their kind, that's all we've ever seen, evidence that God's word is true and plants and animals would always bring forth after their kind, now that is found everywhere, which is what the word ubiquitous means, there are 1000 varieties of bananas, they bring forth after their kind, but you guys want to teach the kids that animals and fungi and plants are related to a common ancestor, that is lying to the students, I think I got one minute left, okay, so there are four different varieties of elephants, two seem to be extinct, the mammoth and the mastodon, they might have had a common ancestor and it looked like an elephant, this is not science, this is religion down in the lower part of the circle, there are 1100 varieties of bats, God said they bring forth after their kind, that's all we've seen, the leopards bring forth the leopard kind, cats maybe leopards and tigers are related, I don't know, there are let's see oak trees, 60 varieties of oak trees, might have had a common ancestor, 195 varieties of chickens, 60 species of oak, wow, 3000 kinds of tomato, God said they bring forth after their kind, so Donald the evidence that God's word is true is ubiquitous, it's everywhere, and you better get ready, you're going to be judged by that book one of these days, 45 varieties of pumpkins, 1100 species of pine tree, yep, evidence is ubiquitous for micro evolution, now if you have some evidence for anything other than that I would like to see it, take the floor, Donald tell me what you got, thank you very much, we'll kick it over to Donald indeed and so Donald you've got about eight minutes and 45 seconds or so, Sure, okay, well first I'd like to thank Kent for conceding so early in the debate, but let's go ahead and have this conversation anyway, shall we? Before I'd like to start I'd like to publicly make an invitation, since I'm pretty sure you know Kent's going to preach rather than debate, I invite his god to come here and speak for itself, I've invited it several times to join the chat and it never showed up, I asked believers to invite their god to join the chat and none of them would do it, don't know why, so his god is welcome to come and join the debate and talk with us in here and you can get him hooked up if he actually comes and joins if you don't mind and he can have some of my time, so yeah, because this isn't a debate about religion, it's meant to be a debate about evolution, so if god wants to speak about evolution let's let him do that himself, let's see if I can cram this down into eight minutes, okay, I wrote this out in advance and I haven't read it since then, it's been a while, so bear with me, the state of action, the state or action of being changed into another form is known as transmutation, the topic of this debate is evolution not transmutation, etymologically evolution is the rolling out of change, that is the process of change of changes being changed together or adding up to produce larger collective changes known as cumulative change, evolution is not the change itself, it's the process, cumulative change is the result of the evolutionary process of changes adding up, I'm not very good at keeping things concise so try to speed things up by arguing not only my side of the debate but also my debate opponent's side as well, at least to the extent that we agree, that way Kent doesn't have to waste time preaching about stuff, we're not disagreeing with each other about, most likely there are going to be some things each of us are wrong about so hopefully we can both learn something either through the debate itself or through the question and answer session afterward or perhaps more indirectly than that, preferably all of those ways and more, if any of Kent's supporters are watching perhaps they can request in the chat that he might allow questions and answer session to run into overtime, so the discussion can run a little longer provided that's okay with the moderator, Kent if you think you might have enough time to let that happen let us know, if a non-religious non-theist, as a non-religious non-theist I'm not bound by any doctrines and I'm sure I will be expressing some disagreement with some of my fellow atheists, some of whom I deeply respect, yet who are not likely to be at all happy with my disagreement, that's okay though, the truth is what matters learning is more important than agreeing and besides we aren't required to agree with each other, the only thing we can be reasonably sure all atheists agree with each other on is that theism hasn't convinced them it's right, I'll start by taking a positive stance for which I will have the burden of proof and then listing some of the things that Kent and I agree on but if anyone wants to quote me on any of this I ask that they include a link to the entire debate for context if possible or at least mention the debate and encourage people to look it up because there are limits to some of these agreements and there are also things that we disagree on, if I'm not if I'm mistaken about any such agreement or disagreement I look forward to being corrected. Theists often complain about atheists telling them that they have the burden of proof but the only reason that happens is because theistic doctrines make positive claims and as a result theists tend to make positive claims based on their theistic doctrines, atheism doesn't have any doctrines or positive claims it's just a lack of theism and I can't change that if I as an atheist if I as an atheist make a positive claim it's my positive claim it's not atheism's positive claim so I'll start with a question and Kent can give his answer to this question if he wants to as well the question is as follows is it possible for a form of life as simple as a single cell organism to evolve into a form of life as complex as a human being my answer is yes yes it is definitely possible in fact yes it is it has definitely happened there's my positive claim now I have the burden of proof on that claim more specifically I'm claiming that changes to a living single celled life form can add up in such ways in such a way as to eventually produce a living multi-celled life form as complex as a human being with each stage along the way surviving in its environment long enough for more such changes to add up and therefore humans and other such complex life forms are not irreducibly complex so let's look at some of the things we agree on we both agree that early 19th century the other early 19th century theory of evolution commonly known as lemarchism is nonsense as it was known to be as it was known to be nonsense 50 years before Darwin published on the origin of species although Kent often mistaken often mistakenly calls lemarchism Darwinism or treats it like it's a modern theory of evolution we also both agree that some science textbooks have errors in them for that matter so does some mathematics textbooks in fact any book on any subject can have errors in it we also agree that authors should try to keep errors to a minimum admit them when they happen and correct them in in future publications when possible and to be clear we both agree that an amoeba wasn't the ancestor of all life that cats don't produce dogs and dogs don't produce cats and that in the rare event an elephant might try to mate with a pine tree it's most likely not going to produce a viable offspring we also agree that not all evolution is biological evolution for clarification I will say that the word evolution I will say that the word evolution when used in the context of biology generally does refer to biological evolution and people should be careful not to conflate one usage with another what is meant by evolution or biological evolution often depends on context including who's talking and what they're talking about I'll try to be specific I encourage others to do likewise when possible we also agree that none of our grandparents were rocks and that in reproduction each life form tends to reproduce more of the same overall kind of life form with some variation however I don't believe that it's likely that there's actually such thing as a supernaturally created kind outside of fiction so on that point I'm pretty sure we disagree it seems we also agree that nested cladogenesis does happen that is to say dog parents always produce dog puppies and chihuahua parents always produce chihuahua puppies but since chihuahuas are dogs some dog parents produce chihuahua puppies while other dog parents might produce great tame puppies the question I would like to address is whether or not evolution is ubiquitous that is to say is evolution happening pretty much all around us essentially all the time I propose that the answer is yes for the sake of clear communication we need to make a distinction between evolution and history when people talk about evolution when people talk about the history of evolution that's not evolution that's history my worst subject and of little interest to me although it is my opinion that natural history is the best kind of history because it's recorded by nature rather than claimed by humans and that evolutionary history is the most interesting and likely most useful subset of natural history there are two major usages of the word history but simply one is the study of past events as a subject in general and the other is any series of past events leading up to whatever it is they're viewed as part of the history of for example uh past events in any way contributing to modern dance having become what it is would be considered what's that you got about 45 minutes or 45 seconds left well 45 minutes left that's a long time yeah I'm not going to make it all the way through this but keep keep going till I can stop me um where was I uh process of accumulation of change to to dance caused by those events can constitutes the evolution of dance and the accumulation of those changes to dance um which have stood the test of time can be seen as the evolution of modern dance um yeah likewise any past events which have in any have in any way contributed to modern earth life becoming what it has become are considered part of the history of modern earth life viewed from an evolutionary perspective that is evolutionary history not evolution itself however the process of surviving heritable changes uh to earth life accumulating over many generations constitutes the evolution of life on earth evolution does not record or dictate history humans record that is it up that was uh basically eight minutes and in 45 seconds on each side so we'll jump into the open conversation do want to ask well I'll give you a let me finish uh let me give you a chance to finish that same so Donald sorry about that I had three paragraphs left so if you want to cut me off in the middle of it that's okay maybe I can bring it up during the uh you know during the discussion or you know who knows what um fair all right I've got way more stuff than I can cover in the time we have gotcha we'll jump into the open discussion which will be 45 minutes I've got the timer set the floor is all yours gentlemen uh Donald you brought up several things used to the evolution of dance do you think that's happening by itself is there any intelligent input into that uh is this oh there's definitely intelligent input into it and yes it is definitely happening what's that is that what you mean by evolution that changes can happen with intelligence guiding the changes is that what you know that's not what I mean by evolution I said what I mean by evolution but that's why I said there are six different meanings to the word but you want to address that sure let's let's address that how about we how about we do that I um okay um let's see I gave lots of examples of what's called micro evolution there are 400 varieties of cabbage is that proof enough to you that cabbage and mosquitoes are related actually if you recall I was the one who told you about that you didn't know about it at the time brassica or racia yeah that was me on the phone I told you I had taught you something you said you didn't recall the conversation that was it only you taught me that there were four kinds of that was one of a few things I thought you actually are you telling me that you taught me there are 400 kinds of cabbage you might have done that that's a thank you for telling me is that I didn't say exactly how many kinds what I did bring it up to you and I did bring out some up some of the variety and I did talk about their evolution how they evolved why they evolved and uh yeah I'm glad I'm glad you learned from it Donald Donald are they still cabbage um yes and they're still mustard as well and they're still what they're still mustard as well they're still mustard so is that evidence convincing to you that cabbage and mosquitoes are related if you go back in time far enough what's it have to do with mosquitoes or do the charts are under the ancestor of cabbage you can't go back in time and find mosquitoes from the charts the charts we teach the kids in school like I have up on the screen show that whales and mosquitoes and cabbage have a common ancestor they have lines going back to a single common ancestor they also have they also have genes tracing them back to a common ancestor okay so I do you but the lines the lines are just somebody's way of showing what the evidence is that that's not the evidence do you believe this chart represents science that there is scientific evidence that it is representative of it yes the chart is not the science but yes it does represent the science so I'm just gonna try to get clear for the audience here you believe whales and mosquitoes have a common ancestor sometime long ago and far away what is the evidence I any I I don't have a belief in such a thing the evidence indicates that yes what evidence indicates that whales and mosquitoes are related genetic genetic evidence strongly indicates and not just that they're related but exactly how they're related okay I think I could show you thousands of books right here in my library that all use a common code called the English language 20 letters yeah have you have you heard of the book of pandas and people yes there there's a particular case where an ancestor where an ancestor of one version of that book was shown to be an ancestor of that version of that book because of the because of the evidence left behind in it there was a you know a transitional fossil left in the book there was that was in the court Donald I would say the English language has 26 letters and that's the common code that all English books are written in you know that the did you know ampersand used to be a letter in the English alphabet just to be sure what we might have to do is just to kind of eliminate the interruptions might have to kick into it like a three minute three minute response from each side no no I'll just I'll just let him talk I've got stuff to say when he's ready to let me say it he can go ahead and do that go ahead I want to make sure I understand you clearly what your position is you think that this chart is showing the kids the truth that whales and mosquitoes have a common ancestor because they have the same DNA code is that your evidence for relationship they have the same code that the language that the life form is written in that is the evidence yes and I know for a fact that that chart is an extreme oversimplification but yes it probably is intended to show them the truth as well as could be shown for someone of that age in a textbook so you think it's okay to show you you're saying you think it's okay to show students in school by the millions at taxpayer expense that whales and mosquitoes have a common ancestor is that what we're debating is that what we're debating because I thought that yes you said the evidence the evidence for one of them is ubiquitous you're saying the evidence is everywhere where is the evidence that mosquitoes and whales have a common ancestor you're saying the DNA in the genetics you got that right it's in the genetic I would agree they they have many similarities in the DNA code the CATG but that could prove the same designer made the code yeah except it's not just a matter of similarities one second I'm going to give you a chance to respond one second Donald they are saying Donald that your mic I think your mic might be bumping into your shirt and it causes a noise that is distracting here let me try to fix that if I can just take that through here maybe let it evolve then it shouldn't bounce around is that I think that's better okay hopefully it will be okay Donald would it be okay if someone chose to believe that the whale on the mosquito have a common designer because all we've ever actually seen you said you wouldn't interrupt all we've ever actually seen is whales produce whales we've never seen a whale produce a non-whale never so why would you say it's science to believe it happened in the past when it can't happen today sciences things we've observed study and test and demonstrate they observe whales making baby whales that's as far as it goes are you ready for an answer that yeah I'd love to hear an answer to that one okay yeah we we have observed many things giving rise to things that they weren't what they don't do is stop being what they were wait wait wait that's contradictory statement say that no it's not at all a contradictory statement okay as I said the cabbages are still mustard broccoli is still a mustard are they still plants they're still plants as well yes plants never does that prove plants and whales are related there's only one way that a plant reproducing sexually could produce a non-plant and that is for it to mate with a non-plant and if a if for example if a pine tree mated with an elephant successfully do you know what that would be you know what the result would be stupid the result would be a eukaryote because that's what they both are both parents would be eukaryotes the offspring would be eukaryotes so yes they would be be producing the same as you call it kind the thing is I don't see any evidence that those are created kinds I see yes you can use the word kind okay and I can go along with that and it can it can be vague or very specific depending on how you go about using it but yeah if an elephant in a pine tree successfully mated whether through you know help from from a laboratory or somehow you know they did it on their own their offspring would be a eukaryote you're aware of course that it is not possible in any laboratory if a group of scientists intelligent scientists could take the gene code from an elephant and cross it with the gene code from a pine tree to create a um pelophant okay uh that would prove it takes intelligence to do this it doesn't happen in nature all we see all we observe is pine trees or just pine trees I got thousands of them on my property here come see them pine trees make pine trees every time but you you think donald you think pine trees came from a single celled organism don't you yes why would you believe every last one of them every pine tree came from a single celled organism yep is that what you believe yep and you every pine tree every pine tree was a single celled organism at one stage in its life and it came from that and it survived every stage along the way and by the way by the way the word evolution was used to describe an embryo's development long before it was used to describe the evolution of life over generations now that's where I started at the beginning asking what exactly do you mean by evolution if a single all of the things you named and none of the things you called on donald yeah just the the interrupt just answer you have to go to a three minute three minute interval there's only try to answer him let him go if a sperm and a combine to make a zygote a single cell and it slowly develops into a human being is that in your mind evolution that is one type of evolution yes that is not reproductive evolution and the changes that it makes over its lifetime will not be passed on if it uh for example some comes into contact with some chemical that changes that that affects its eye color so it ends up with purple eyes it doesn't mean it's offspring or going to have purple eyes it doesn't have the genetics to have that happen it just you know had that happened as a development during its lifetime now I taught biology 15 years I understand that extremely well so the but would you agree that the zygote forming from a sperm and an egg is following a code as it develops what told it to divide and make two and eventually you get a right and a left side of the body is this is this is an incredibly complicated four dimensional code way more than our two-dimensional you know code that we use for our computers this is four-dimensional three three three three-dimensional four-part code this is not simple it is it's so for if you're thinking that a single cell you're developing into a pine tree because the pollen can fell on the uh the seed and pollinated it and that is what you mean by evolution then you're being very deceitful no I'm not gonna get a chartly s you are to let a kids get a chart like this that that's evidence that a pine tree and a whale are related you're conflating no you are conflating complaining I'm pointing out no I said you're conflating you are conflating one okay yes you're conflating two different things it's not science to say that a pine tree that that is not the evolution of an embryo that is evolution of many many many generations of populations and what's represented in the pictures is is a simple depiction of some member or some representative graphic representation of some of that particular population at that point in the in the graph that they're showing that's all that is it's as I mentioned an oversimplification but that is population genetics that's reproductive evolution that's not evolution of an embryo and it's also not cosmic evolution by the way uh you you have said that cosmic evolution is the origin of time and space the big bang uh that's an origin not a process evolution is a process cosmic evolution is the evolution of the cosmos in other words you know cosmic evolution is the process of change accumulating or being accumulated you know as the the cosmos changes it adds up changes that doesn't matter whether that you and I are part of the cosmos we're part of cosmic evolution in other words the the accumulation of developmental changes and generative changes and destructive changes and all other kinds of changes that have accumulated anywhere in the universe during all of time and across all the space potentially including uh whatever caused the big bang although we currently have no no way of knowing that uh but certainly including the accumulation of changes that produce subatomic particles atoms molecules complex chemicals galaxy stars planets weather patterns ecosystems biology uh cellular life multi-cellular life uh the diversity of ocean life land life mammals like us and even human cultures um however or evolution is not an origin event as you keep making it out to be it's a process well in order for anything to evolve it has to exist how did it come into existence where did matter come from well evolution creates things evolution is a has a has a will a mind is evolution is your ever is your god named evolution no why would you say why would you conflate a natural process with with a with a supernatural deity well you are giving a natural process as you call it deity powers to create where did time space and matter come from no no you are you are assigning those things to a deity you're assigning those as deity powers i'm not are you i recognize the natural processes this natural process is your god you think that natural process can create time space and matter and create life from non-living material your god i didn't say that i said that's something we don't know yet you'd be embarrassed to say i'll say it for you you believe evolution evolution is your god so you're so you're um so you're straw manning me on purpose no no no no you said you said where did time space matter come from you said evolution created it so you're giving that's not what i say no again you're straw manning me i did not say that tell me where time space matter came from one more time i don't know neither do you well is it okay if i say i believe god did it and since you don't know and so since nobody knows why are we teaching all this to the kids in public school like we do know you could say the tooth fairy did it too it wouldn't make it true i agree see i'm not telling everybody they've got to pay to have my to teach my religion in the school you want everybody to pay to teach your religion but you but you but you do sell your books and you do uh you know go to schools and do your preaching and stuff like that so yeah in a way you are actually you are actually doing what you just said you you don't do but um but if we can get on with the actual debate wait a minute i'm not gonna let that one slide i am not requiring an taxpayer to pay my salary while i teach them that mosquitoes in wales came from a rock i'm not doing that see your textbook show you the animals and some guy in plants have a common ancestor i think they're lying so you're straw manning them as well no it's not strong already i already told you i already said in my opening statement we agree that we didn't come from a rock well the books teach that no not any other not any not any that got it right and most of them do get it right yes some make errors don't let me ask you a simple question do you believe the earth was a hot molten ball of rock 4.6 billion years ago you don't believe that no i believe that the earth was a hot molten ball of a whole lot of different elements elements and that it was liquid it was not rock okay did the liquid cool down and turn to rock some of it some of it did okay on the surface did it rain on those rocks for millions of years and make oceans no they didn't where did the where did the where did the primordial soup come from who said anything about primordial soup we were talking about the early earth yeah the textbooks teach that life had to form in this primordial soup but you're jumping way ahead you're talking about the early earth the early earth had water in it so where did this water come from as i said it was a mixture of a bunch of different elements and where did these elements come from from nothing well we're getting into we're there we're getting into cosmic evolution and stellar evolution do you want me to go into details you chose the title for the debate is absolutely i'm not is i'm ready for it if that's what you want you want me to go into details i did have other things i was going to try to add but yeah okay your claim is that the evidence for evolution is everywhere which exact which kind of evolution are you talking about evolution i'm not talking about one kind i'm talking about evolution and what do you mean by that word that dogs and pine trees are related yeah nothing to do with dogs and pine trees evolution is the process of change accumulating or being accumulated it is a process it's not a history it's not it's not a claim it's not a story it's not a religion it has nothing to do with any of the stuff you make it out to be evolution is a process that's okay so you think that the evidence for evolution for a process is ubiquitous the process of changing to a different kind i showed you that there are you're strawmaning me again i am not i'm trying to get you to understand okay let me try to make it simple okay you can ask me about that i'll answer it okay there are 60 varieties of oak trees they might have had a common ancestor called a tree is that evidence that trees and mosquitoes are related in your mind no that has nothing to do with mosquitoes okay well you didn't mention mosquitoes in that so no it doesn't let's try another one the fact that they're both eukaryotes does so the fact that they're both eukaryotes the mosquito and the oak tree are both eukaryotes therefore they are related in your mind is that correct because they have both because they have both inherited genes from primitive eukaryotes and there is a trail of how those genes were inherited and and their and what are what are their closest relatives and exactly how they're related to each other it's all in genetics it's all in the code it's all in the exact order of the of the dna it's like it's like reading a book okay where's this code where's this you said there's a trail of how this happened what is it what trail are you referring to donal i'm talking about well for one uh endogenous retroviruses which are inherited so the fact that different species have endogenous retroviruses is indication they have a common ancestor it's not the fact that they have them it's exactly where they have them in their genome and exactly what changes to them have happened over time as they have passed them on from generation to generation to generation because those changes are trackable across the different species across the different genuses across the the families in larger groups these are all things that i mean for example there's there's there's several several endogenous retroviruses that all mammals have but we don't all have the exact same copy of they some of them have evolved a little bit they've they've accumulated little changes they've micro evolved okay now would you agree that computer code to write let's say microsoft powerpoint the the program code to write powerpoint how many lines of code would that be see millions of lines of code to make powerpoint are there any mistakes in microsoft powerpoint code do you think did you think over the years they've the programmer might have made a mistake yes they still find mistakes okay does that therefore prove that nobody wrote the code no why we're getting somewhere we're getting somewhere good well because you think because there are endogenous retroviruses what did you ask me instead of telling me what i think why don't you ask me okay do you believe that the evidence of a mistake in the genetic code which is way more complicated than microsoft powerpoint code is evidence that nobody wrote that code no do you do yes you do i'll answer for you yes you do well there you go straw manning me again why why do you do you agree that the code in a single cell is more complex has more lines of code than microsoft powerpoint with its millions of lines of code it doesn't have any lines of code at all we call it a code by analogy it is actually a poor analogy but it is an analogy and yes that is a common thing that it's called but that's kind of like when they call the earth spinning when it's rotating at one revolution every 24 hours the word spin is defined as rapid rotation the earth doesn't rotate rapidly the earth does not spin but i recognize that people refer to planetary spin when what they mean is planetary rotation that's a well-known historic use of the word it is colloquial and i will not use it that way but i do understand that other people do okay so there are how about the information found in the genetic code everybody refers to it as a genetic code the four-part catg and whereas our binary code we use only has two plus minus or on off or yes no so the code that man uses for all of his computers is primitive compared to the the code found in all life forms very primitive and yet you think much more precise right and you think nobody wrote that code no i'm saying our what the code on computers is much more precise what you're calling code in genetics is loosely able to be called code because it doesn't it doesn't behave as predictably as what you call code in a computer well do you think that code in computer is there any chance this code could happen by chance yes there i've written pro i have written programs to do exactly that i've actually written programs that write other programs make them up as they go okay think about what you are saying you have created a program right do you have an intelligent mind yes okay so it and i'm not and i'm not saying your god didn't make the big bang he is invited to come speak for himself if he wants to say he did otherwise we have nothing more to say about your god let's talk about evolution god is busy he's sent me to straighten you out okay so your god isn't powerful enough to take a little time off and speak for himself he has to have he you think you can speak for your god better than he can oh no he's already spoken very clearly he wrote actually wrote a book i've read it many times yeah actually no he didn't that was written by human beings well you think they could speak better you think they could speak for him better than he can well if i dictate a letter to my secretary and she writes it it's my words write this down secretary and she writes it down is it why couldn't god so then why couldn't god keep them from getting all the all those errors introduced into all the different translations i mean if it was really his words it was a topic i would i would defy you to show me an error in the king james bible okay let's have another okay yeah we're not on that topic so let's let's stick to the topic at hand the bible has evolved we both know that no we don't know that you may yes we do the bible has accumulated changes over time it has it has been translated and retranslated each time that happens it gets little changes and sometimes those changes get corrected but the correction is also a change being made so when an error happens that's a change if someone corrects that error that's another change sometimes that change will exactly undo the change that was made accidentally and sometimes it doesn't sometimes someone will correct something that they thought was an error and it wasn't actually an error and they end up introducing an error by trying to correct an error all of that is part of the evolution of the bible the bible has evolved that's exactly what you are doing you're introducing an error to try to correct what you think is an error the fact is cows produce cows and dogs produce dogs and mosquitoes produce mosquitoes without exception and you're introducing an error into our textbook by saying that's proof that they're related long ago and far away it's very telling me again oh i'm not i'm pointing out the obvious i did not say that you have repeatedly said that i'm saying that and i haven't said it once okay well let me show you the chart again okay do you believe these charts are accurate that say animals and plants have a common ancestor this is found in all the biology textbooks that's a statement i don't need a chart for the statement yes the statement is true we do have evidence we do have evidence that they have a common ancestor yes actually it's probably not just a common ancestor it's probably a common population ancestor not an individual ancestor but it doesn't really matter the reason why i say specify that is because if you go back as far as unicellular animals or not animals unicellular life forms there's a lot of horizontal gene transfer and it gets a little a little bit of a gray area who is whose parent i i know that my parents work um yeah because you're not you're not unicellular you evolved from an egg i evolved yes you evolved from a fertilized egg you didn't you didn't you didn't evolve generation by generation from an egg your cells evolved generation by generation from a fertilized egg and produce the colony of cells that is your body i agree i'm a colony of cells there are probably more cells in the human body than there are stars in the sky yeah there are a lot of stars and there are a lot of cells in the body and you know what most of those cells in the human body are they're not human the the vast majority by number formed by chance each one of those cells is more complex than the space shuttle by number you are more bacteria than human wow there are more bacterial cells in you than human cells because bacterial cells are very small i agree you chose the title for the debate that the evidence for evolution is ubiquitous and you're telling the title it's evolution is ubiquitous yes the evolution is also ubiquitous but that wasn't it okay the evidence is ubiquitous but the title is evident is evolution is everywhere and yeah evolution is everywhere evolution is everywhere wow yes okay and so by that word evolution you mean change so you have to have you have to have something to change where did the matter the time the space come from where did the energy come from for this where did the food come from for all these organisms to eat all this time should we're back up where you just got me wrong again what now should we back up to where you just straw manned me again where i you asked you that's what i meant i said no i am trying to figure out what you what you think you believe i don't think you know either but go ahead it's a matter of belief linguistics is my field one of several actually okay evolution is the process of change adding up it's not just change if you roll a dice and you get a six and then you turn it over and you get a one the change from a six to a one was not evolution the turning it over was evolution because the turning it over is movement and movement is the accumulation of change in position okay you evolve your dice for 20 billion years when will you get a seven as soon as you paint on an extra dot oh so somebody has to actually add this an intelligent source well that's one way it doesn't have to be that way but that's one way so just just rolling the dice would give you i just one dice would give you a seven six oh yeah oh yeah you didn't say six sided dice i have 12 sided dice okay all right you have said many things i'd love to discuss here briefly i'd like you to explain the evidence for evolution is ubiquitous and your uh your example of evolution is a process whereby things change so if you changed um if you if you roll the dice two six sided dice enough times will you ever get a 13 or a 14 they change each time you roll the dice within limits not as long as they're still six sided dice because you're not allowing that to change you're limiting one of the changes that they're allowed to do okay we've seen a lot of love if you're allowed to modify one of the dice then then sure you might get that but see you're restricting evolution to a certain thing that's that's kind of like asking uh you know if if if a dog keeps having chihuahuas as babies will it ever end up having a non chihuahua as a baby well the answer is it's going to keep having if it's the chihuahua it's going to keep having chihuahuas as a baby until it meets with something that isn't a chihuahua would it still be a dog yes well then that's not evolution actually it would still be a wolf and if it and if it made it with a wild wolf the result of that would also still be a wolf and if it made it with a dog in the larger sense not domesticated dogs but dogs as the group that contains wolves and foxes if it if it for example uh made it with a with a fox and produced a viable offspring that would also be a dog but not a domesticated dog that would be a dog in the larger clade sense okay and would you and if they and if it then made if the if the results of that if that dog then made it with a cow and produced a viable offspring the result would be a mammal linguistics okay because both parents are mammals their offspring would be a mammal there is no inconsistency there with what the theory of biological the modern theory of biological evolution actually says the modern synthesis theory of biological evolution has all of this covered and then some but you keep going back to lamarquinism is a mosquito a mammal no okay somewhere in the past and by your theory whatever the ancestor was some of them turned into mosquito which is non-mammal and some of them turned into dog which is mammal but yet you believe they had a common ancestor don't you well their common ancestor was non-mammal non-mosquito so it changed into something other than its same kind the bible says they bring forth their kind what evidence do you have with the contradict genesis chapter one that god said they bring forth after their kind their common ancestor was metazoid they are both metazoid and and if they made it with each other if you could somehow get them to mate with each other and produce a viable offspring that too would be metazoid an animal just like us humans this it has never been observed in science which is science deals with what we can observe study in test it has never been observed you've seen the whole universe you've observed everything for all of time because you're saying it's never been observed but you might want to be careful universe but if you want to use that then you might want to then you might want to qualify it with you don't know of it because you're you're showing your ignorance not what is fact now what are you saying you're ignorant of no scientist on the planet no human on the planet has ever seen an apple producing non-apple or a dog produce a non-dog we've seen variations within the apple kind there are now 7500 varieties of apples most have been produced by some farmer to grow in his particular soil or climate but they're still apple but then you agree on that good but you believe apples and mosquitoes have a common ancestor don't you the evidence indicates it i don't have a need to believe or disbelieve it i know what the evidence shows where's the evidence of any mosquito ever producing a non-mosquito are we going to go in circles because you've already asked me that and i've already answered it because you don't have you don't even understand that you don't have an answer you don't even understand i do have an answer and i gave you the answer apparently you don't comprehend the answer and you don't and you don't seem to remember either because after i've told you we agree on something you keep going back and treating me like i disagree okay how about we go to chemical evolution wait how about we go to chemical evolution okay uh it seems to me that you've said that chemical evolution is the origin of higher elements from hydrogen that's what you said more or less right the textbooks say that the big bank produced hydrogen and may least maybe some helium what do you say i say god created all the elements okay what do you say chemical evolution is defined as the changing from the hydrogen into the other chemicals the other elements that's what i said okay um again again that is an origin not a process evolution is a process chemical evolution chemical evolution which includes molecular evolution is the evolution of chemistry whether the molecular level or the atomic fusion and fission doesn't really matter in other words chemical evolution is the process of chemical change accumulating or being accumulated which is a subset of change accumulating or being accumulated chemical evolution is therefore evolution if you have a definition of some kind of evolution that is not a process of change accumulating or being accumulated then it's not a definition of evolution at all okay do you believe the big bank produced hydrogen that somehow over whatever process you want turned into gold we do have gold on the planet i know the end i know the evidence does indicate that and i know the details of how as well do i believe it no i don't disbelieve it either i know what the evidence indicates and it seems probable so it seems probable to you that hydrogen gas can be turned into gold would you please do that has has done so has done so make me some gold out of hydrogen gas i want to see that do i have a big bang in my pocket i almost said something unkind um go for it we're having fun here right i mean you're enjoying this aren't you oh i love it i think most of the audience most of the audience can see clearly what's going on here there is no i hope so i certainly hope so okay how about how about we go to stellar evolution and planetary evolution you've okay you you've defined stellar and planetary evolution as the origin of stars and planets right has anybody ever seen a star form okay that is how you've defined it right well has origin of stars and planets okay we would agree i think there are lots of stars out there we would agree that we see them blow up once in a while called a nova or supernova has anybody ever seen a star form not explode i mean a form from from dust cloud not that i'm aware of why because there's a lot of stars out there how do you explain we can we have seen the various stages of them forming but it takes a really long time so because it takes a really long time we can look at the stages and we can watch them changing a little bit from one stage toward another stage but we uh at this point our our technology to view them is still somewhat primitive so we can't do that very well just yet but that's but that's that's diverting from the topic at hand and the question i just asked do you define stellar evolution and planetary evolution as the origin of stars and planets well you guys that's a definition you've been telling people that scientists are using you have to have an explanation for the formation of stars always not an answer to my question i'm trying all we've ever seen in the history of humanity is stars blowing up that is the opposite of stars forming nobody's ever observed a star forming you can imagine it if you wish but it's not science it's your religion would you know what gravity is right is a religion that you believe in can you admit that at least that's your religion no you're god again you are straw manning me again okay you know what gravity is correct nobody knows what gravity is we know what it does i can tell you okay you know what gravity does right know what gravity does yes okay so if so if there if there is a lump of rock out there a planet a molten ball of lava magma whatever you want to call it if there's something heavy out there maybe a gold coin floating in space or a or a tea a teacup or a tea kettle for that matter something out there heavy enough to have enough gravity to attract hydrogen to it and it's in a large hydrogen cloud a hydrogen cloud the size of our galaxy just loose hydrogen out there what do you suppose will happen to that large hydrogen cloud over time if there's nothing else affecting it except its own gravity and the gravity of that random heavy object right five minutes for q&a i did not interrupt you give me a chance to answer your analogy your analogy you're trying to make here assumes that you have the hydrogen to begin with and that you have gravity to begin with and that you have space which goes back to the analogy are you interrupted me sorry that goes back to the issue of time space matter where did the space come from for this cloud to exist in where did the time come forward to slowly and where don't you have to let him finish where did he's not finishing he's asking another question who created the force of gravity gravity's pretty good question all the time but who created that force will you answer the question go ahead will you answer the question that was asked i am very confused about which question you're talking about okay okay okay then let me answer it for you gravity will attract the hydrogen to the heavier object because the heavier object has a center of gravity okay so we agree so you've just you've just tackled star formation now we know gravity creates stars oh no we don't know more than enough because you've got more than enough hydrogen in that size cloud to form a star we just need time and gravity you've just answered the question accumulation of change in position of hydrogen atoms is all we need therefore evolution of that gas cloud will form a star that is stellar evolution it's not an origin story it's not it's not defined as the origin of a star it is a process by which stars form and change so you still did not answer where the hydrogen came from where the space came from where the force of energy because we don't have time of course i can answer those things i'd like to know because we're running up on question and answer and we run out of time i've got all kinds of stuff here that that i wish we had time to go in but you wanted a short debate how about we come back for round two round three round four whatever it takes to actually get to the stuff you want answers to your questions i'll give them to you are you are you willing to handle that oh i'll pick the title next time but yes sir i'll be glad to take you on again no no no same title because we aren't done with this one i i think we've done you is evolution ubiquitous well if we're done then i've already won because you've already you already can you already conceded in your opening statement you already conceded that micro evolution is ubiquitous and micro evolution is just evolution a small amount of it whatever you define as a small amount of it a small amount of it could be enough to to to go all the way from a single-celled organism to humans depending on what you're comparing it to because small is relative okay so i conceded that there are 45 varieties of pumpkins that is micro evolution i will concede that is not no that's not evolution that's varieties that's not a process you still haven't paid attention to what the definition is james we're getting nowhere let's go to question answer jump into q and a so i want to say thanks everybody thanks everybody for your questions and i want to remind you that our guests are linked in the description so you can check out those links right now and amy newman there are a couple most of these are serious questions that i'll i'll keep my promise because i had promised before we'll plug an after show no matter whose channel it's on so first amy newman says running an after show tonight and asks says dr hovind if you believe in micro evolution but not macro isn't that still a belief in some form of evolution we have observed over centuries of human activity 45 pumpkins producing a variety of pumpkins that is observable i like science which is things we can observe study test and demonstrate i think i can demonstrate that pumpkins will always produce pumpkins no matter how many times you try to produce something else so yes i don't think the word micro evolution is a term we should use but it's used already we're stuck with it so i think it happens but that's as far as it goes there is no evidence of a pumpkin ever producing a non-pumpkin are coming from a non-pumpkin if somebody wishes to believe that they should admit that that is their religion the books will teach the kids hey kids pumpkins have a common ancestor with animals i'll show you the chart there we go plants and animals have a common ancestor we don't know that you can believe that if you wish but that's a religious belief it is not scientific science is where we can observe study test and demonstrate we can demonstrate pumpkins produce pumpkins that's as far as it goes somebody wishes to be somebody wishes to you get time in a minute somebody wishes to believe otherwise believe whatever you want but call it a religion and get it out of the science books go teach it in a private school pay you tuition and teach them whatever you want to teach them teach them the tooth fairy if you want i resent teaching evolution as macro evolution in the public schools it's a religion i hate to leave a question for round two because i don't want to take up the time for the gosh next up standing for truth thanks for your super chat says debate on my channel right after this matt slick versus snake was right on morality well that sounds juicy and kakkerot thanks for your question and don't worry we do have we have questions for you too donald so first kakkerot says i've never seen those six levels of evolution in any textbook kent that's because you made up those six levels as a straw man argument is uh i guess there's two things whether or not it's in the textbooks and whether or not it's a straw man we didn't get our closing statements do we get those after the questions the format that i have is eight minute openings that we talked about before the debate 45 minute convo 20 minute and then the question answer i thought there was a closing statements thing okay um we'll give you a chance to respond if you'd like kent so that was uh whether or not those different categories of evolution exist in textbooks they say they've never seen them and that it's a straw man well if you go back and watch my slides carefully as i was doing my introduction my first eight minutes i showed right from the internet and right from textbooks the cosmic evolution chemical evolution stellar evolution macro evolution organic evolution there that's terms that they use so if they didn't see them in the textbooks they didn't do their homework did they got you and next up this one for you donald this one's from noble eagle 100 says chronos assuming that someone doesn't exist such as god just because that person doesn't join your conversation is a non sequitur fallacy bad atheist argument and i haven't given that argument i invited him if he wants to show up he can if he exists next i didn't say he doesn't go ahead next up mic bill ours thanks for your question said kent do you accept that a mustard produced a cabbage plant i think i think modern man has done a lot of genetic manipulation to get mustards to produce a variety of different what we would probably still call the mustard family it's still a plant it's been manipulated by man is that evidence that cabbage is related to whales and mosquitoes in this person's mind i think that we farmers have been able to produce wild numbers of varieties of corn or mustard plants the wild mustard and domesticated plants sure that's mankind taking an already existing gene code and developing a slice of that code for their particular environment or climate or soil type or whatever it's still a plant they didn't create anything you could select all the dog population down to get small dogs or big dogs but it's still dog and somebody is selecting this to happen and most of the varieties of plants that have been created by man would not survive without somebody babysitting them i.e. a farmer probably the cabbages we have today would never turn them all loose in the woods go plant them within a year or two they will have reverted back to something else or died off because they're genetically inferior to the original so man has manipulated plants and animals for centuries to produce a particular variety that they want somebody created the chihuahua why i have no idea it's the dumbest most useless dog in the world and it wouldn't survive five minutes out there in the wild but there are chihuahuas gosh and they're still dog there are a small slice of a gene code that we would everybody would call dog wolf dog coyote had a common ancestor i mentioned that earlier it's still in this dog kind that's not a question we we do have to go to the next one we buy the way folks those of you who are listening we only have time for about well basically all the questions we have there's no way we can get to any new questions so please if you submit a new question we can't get to it with the limited time that we have we're gonna try to get through as many as we can that we have singer of doom says kent you're using a false dichotomy that evolution is wrong then creationism is true no excellent point the fact that evolution is wrong and is not scientific does not automatically prove creation is true the good point there's only two options anybody's ever thought of somebody created this world or the world created itself if you can think of another third option i'd love to hear it but all anybody's ever thought of is somebody made it or nobody made it i can't even imagine a third option so if you want to believe nobody made it that's fine then i would have the right to ask you if you want me to pay that to be taught to the kids where's the evidence for that which is what i've been asking for nobody's ever seen matter come into existence out of nothing but the big bang baloney that they teach in school is that a dot a trillionth the size of a proton contained all the matter in the universe you couldn't squeeze a bowling ball into a dot that size let alone the pacific ocean or the whole universe it is absolutely insane to believe such a thing so you could answer the question bigger point i'm not asking everybody to teach my religion in the public schools i think in science class we should teach science you could learn the bones the names of the muscles the flexors the extenders the radius the ulna the scapula without studying origins at all creation or evolution is unrelated just teach anatomy teach biology teach earth science kids this is a rock this is metamorphic this is igneous you don't have to explain where it came from because neither side's going to be happy with the other side's answer so why why do we have this exclusive monopoly of the religion of evolution being taught in our school system if you wish to believe that go teach it in a private question for donald this is james i'm sorry but we've got it we've got to keep moving we got a lot of questions since he's avoiding answering the questions and just ran and just preaching instead i would like my closing statement at the end of the questions please it's a short one it wasn't agreed upon if we can so if you guys are okay with it i'm okay with it but fine with it go for it he's fine with it next up logical possible says donald what program have you written that can write new functional programs by itself what language what framework $100 says you're wrong actually i've done it in several different languages on several different computers it's way back in the past and i don't think i ever actually named any of them they were tools i used i make tools i use tools this is the benefit of understanding what evolution is and how it works that you can take advantage of it to do things next up alisa aloe vera thank you for your questions that if god created all life and evolution does not exist why then are there so many varieties of the same species why not make it simple with just one you could say category for each species that question for me yes okay well i think god likes variety i like variety too i mean he can do what he wants but again i'm not asking for that to be taught at taxpayer expense so ask ask the lord someday when you get to see him well we'll get to see him one day thanks i'll ask him here if he shows up i have thought appreciate your question says if a species experiences 12 000 types of micro evolution are they the same species i am not exactly sure who that's for i think maybe for donald it depends if they're still genetically compatible with their relatives of that species then yeah if they're not then then no generally they would consider that a speciation divergence but they would still be a member of the clade that they shared in common with their ancestors got you josh they never grow out of being their clade as kent seems to keep insisting that uh that some imaginary version of evolution he keeps pushing on people uh says such things which it doesn't evolution doesn't say anything it does stuff it's a process gotcha this question coming in from josh well i appreciate it said if the earth is only six thousand years old how is gobeckley tempeh more than 12 000 years old um well who who dated this thing that they're talking about how do you know it's 12 000 years old the bible dates clearly add up to 6 000 i think there's overwhelming evidence from all different branches of science that the earth cannot possibly be billions of years old it is spinning i think we'd agree it is rotating once a day and i think most scientists would agree the earth is slowing down about a thousandth of a second every day it has to be slowing down from tidal friction internal friction coriolis effect from the winds etc no well if the earth is slowing down then we used to be going faster so you you do your imagination on that you can't go back billions of years before you got a real problem with the earth becoming an oblate spheroid becoming a frisbee from spinning so fast and the ocean currents and wind currents being horrendous and everything flying off so it i cover on my video number one of my series how scientific ways to prove the earth cannot possibly be billions of years old but that doesn't prove it is 6 000 historical evidence only goes back a few thousand years real honest historical evidence if somebody claims something is 12 000 years old i could claim the sink pin is 50 000 years old prove i'm wrong next up so um that they're claiming that they have something that's 12 000 years old who made that number up and how did they find it i'd like to see the scientific evidence for that next up j mixon thanks for your question said kent how would you account for similarities between molecules that reflect shared evolutionary ancestry genetic material genetic code process of gene expression such as transcription and translation and same build in amino acids wow long complicated question i think it boils down to how would i explain why elephants are orange they're not orange there's no evolutionary relationship between anything are you gonna answer any questions i've answered every one of them if you haven't answered any you preach every time you haven't answered a single question answer that one if you can i think i just did in one word i answered it in one word evolution change that's the answer go ahead answer it answers all of it i know next up is everything is evolution i know isaaf 40 oh i have to this one i'll keep the promise even though it's not related isaaf 40 22 says the round earth and space itself is scientifically impossible flat earth 101.com this one guy thanks for your super chat that god coded us to talk for him i'll be big you created your program to program programs what was that i think it's for you donald they said god coded us to talk for him like you created your program to program programs possibly but i don't see the evidence for it gotcha and jesse shodl thanks for your question said kent you can you demonstrate that anyone has ever observed the god described in the bible it is my religious belief i don't have to demonstrate that again i'm not asking for it to be paid by taxpayers so i can believe whatever i choose i think there's evidence that somebody had to create this there's probably evidence that somebody had to make this ink pen i don't know who i don't know where i don't know when and i actually don't care but i think it's obvious to a two-year-old somebody made it i think when you see something way more complex than an ink pen like a genetic code you'd have to say wow who wrote this code the question before was to don did you program the code to make the program that makes the programs the answer is obviously yes it didn't happen by itself i don't think did the keys press themself on your computer so i think that the uh i cannot prove the existence of god yet i will one day when we all get to see him but for now i have to choose that i take it by faith i admit mine is a faith they will not admit that evolution is a religion will you don't it's not you still haven't paid attention to what it is evolution is the process of change adding up that's not a religion there are no beliefs in it add up yeah there are no beliefs involved it is a process closing statements so what i'll do is give you guys five minutes each and we'll start with kent given that kent started in the first place so the floor is all yours all right you're gonna shut off his mic during this time i'll be quiet okay you're good okay i believe the evidence is overwhelming that blueberries produce blueberries there are four different types of blueberries now that man has cultivated and developed and they probably had a common ancestor called a blueberry god's word says 20 times in the first seven chapters that the plants and animals will always bring forth after their kind that is the evidence for that is everywhere there is evidence that people will die one day that is found everywhere the evidence for death is ubiquitous okay everybody's going to die i think you can go to any cemetery and say wow what happened to our video here there we go somebody's going to you're going to die i think there's evidence that don will die one day the evidence is ubiquitous you will find your name on it we will find your name on a tombstone someday and i think it's ubiquitous it's everywhere everywhere i think you should get prepared for that day see not this is a pascals wager if you are right i haven't lost anything there's no god to answer to and i've lived a wonderful life have a wonderful time i enjoy life but if i'm right and you're wrong you're in real serious trouble one day so i hate to see that happen but it's up to you go ahead next up we'll switch it over to donald for his closing we do have one sec i want to keep a promise to samuel lilla home who asked a question early and i did promise i'd get this and said what would you consider for don what would you consider the clearest example of a parts with purpose system coming from a purely natural origin directly observed or clearest quote unquote proof of concept um a water molecule forming we we give it a purpose we we drink water we do lots of stuff with water um yeah hydrogen and oxygen just light the hydrogen on fire it burns the with the oxygen you get water that's simple thank you very much we'll kick it over to donal for his five minute closing and the floor is all yours donald all right um yeah by the way um kent about that idea of either there's this or that that's another false dichotomy there are thousands of different gods people still believe in um you could be wrong about all of them um okay i know kent likes to show pieces of his debates to his followers and you know give them link um so not give them links to the original so i'd appreciate if any of kent's followers would share with each other the direct link to the full unedited debate on this channel so that people can make their own informed decisions about whether or not any version of of it he might present to them properly represents the actual debate uh even though each of us have planned some part of this debate before the debate started the debate as it actually happened was not designed or planned or planned out in full kind of like that you know when i read a program that writes programs i didn't plan what program it's going to write it's on its own there the conversation could change direction at any time in ways that nobody involved could entirely anticipate and some such changes were bound to add up in other words evolution was bound to happen also the content of the debate changed every time anything was added to it and of course that change is also cumulative so the debate regardless of the path it took has demonstrated evolution in action the debate itself evolved the number of likes uh clicked has evolved and continues to evolve the number of subscriptions to this channel also continues to evolve evolution has been all around us the entire time kent himself admitted that micro evolution is ubiquitous and it's all around us what do you get when you have more micro evolution you have macro evolution and he said that there's a limit to that but he has not demonstrated where such a limit is he can't even say where such a limit is all he says is something doesn't devolve out of being what it is and that's exactly what the modern synthesis theory of evolution says if you want to if you want to get something something other than what you've got you've got to meet it with something else uh it's it's called cladogenesis you you come up with a new clade its parent clade is still one of its clades so evolution has been around us all in the entire time regardless of how many people recognize it and how many do not evolution is ubiquitous i've made my point the evidence has shown itself i've pointed out enough of the evidence to make it clear to anyone who has been paying attention i rest my case gotcha with that want to say thanks everybody for tuning in both of our guests are linked in the description and we are excited for the future folks as we have many more debates coming up and so don't forget to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already in that little notification bell so it's ringing so you get those notifications for when we're live because we have a lot of epic shows coming up so with that want to say thanks thanks james thanks kent absolutely thanks so much to our guest everybody who's watching appreciate it absolutely thanks everybody for coming to hang out with us today i will be back with a post credit scene about upcoming debates which is going to be fun folks and so i've got a big one to tell you about this saturday that's in the work so stay tuned for that and with that thanks one more time keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable and thanks to our guests or we're gonna have a follow-up uh thanks so much for tuning in i want to say a huge thank you to our guests i'm just back for a quick post credit scene to let you know about upcoming debates that we have and so very excited for those but do want to say thanks everybody for hanging out with us one thing that we are trying to change at the channel is we want to as best as we can though we appreciate silly super chats and we'll even read some of your kind ones we're not going to read insults to guests because we appreciate our guests coming on and if we insult our guests like what way uh how is that thanking them for coming on uh want to let you know for example our guests who run and i didn't ask for anything uh they just came on because they love to debate so i will read silly you know playful positive super chats in this post credit scene that i had not read already but do want to let you know we're not going to read insults and during the debate we're working on basically getting more serious questions in the debate because i think that boosts the quality of the show when we only during the debate q and a only read serious questions so do want to say thank you guys for those serious questions they were great really enjoyable and let's see we oh thanks area 85 restorations as well for being so patient that we didn't get to read your question thanks for your like your super chat support for the channel seriously that really does mean a lot and so i appreciate you understanding that we have limited time with the guests and so really do thanks uh for your flexibility guys and so there were a lot of other questions we can get to and sorry about that folks but want to let you know we have a couple of things one is we are so thrilled this saturday you guys it's going to be great we are setting up a debate between the alex stein and fight the flat earth one didn't quite work out but we're setting up a new one with fight the flat earth and with igor television however if any of you know igor television if you can tell him to check his email i'm trying to get a hold of him so um that's uh pretty important and so thanks jay mixon for your super chat supports a great debate james appreciate that that seriously means a lot thanks so much we're excited about the channel you guys because you guys make it great and we've got a vision for the future you guys we are determined we want to host fair debates on a level playing field on this platform that's our goal and that's what we're going to do believe me when all the smoke and dust is cleared that's what we're going to be doing and it's going to change youtube for the good and so we do appreciate you guys no matter what walk of life you're from and also just thanks for saying hi i appreciate getting to hang out with you guys and so for example tiger a hit man thanks for being here john doh doh tech don't see thanks for your uh said recommendations that uh you should uh archive all your videos in case youtube deletes the channel that would stink if they deleted it i agree i think we're okay so far we've never we haven't even gotten our first strike which is surprising to be honest but i appreciate you caring buddy Xavier merelle's hopefully i'm saying that right sorry if i'm not friend let me know but we're glad you're here Xavier and freddy thanks for hanging out with us seminal fan 291 glad you're here friend hqn says i like this show it is fun thanks hqn seriously that means a lot we really appreciate you robert caslow good to see you again mark reid is always good to see you flat sky thanks for hanging out with us rufus st hubbins glad you're here buddy you sigh you usey alcoo thanks for being with us friend i see you there wl 357 thanks for hanging out with us buddy glad you're here communist propagandist is here good to see you again friend and bk standard 88 thanks for hanging out with us and spicy roads good to see uh this one guy says i will tell him thank you this one guy for being here and youtube surgeon general as always glad you made it oh popping over into the twitch chat sorry folks i'm so behind i'm getting used to checking two chats i'm admittedly have room to improve i'm a work in progress but thanks low two eng and brooks barrel for hanging out with us in twitch as well as stripper looker and also solar grooving international grooving thanks for hanging out with us poor lucy good to see you again really do appreciate you and yes we are pumped you guys for the future as you see at the bottom right of your screen you guys you guys you don't want to miss this look at this this debate right here that i'm pointing at it's going to be epic that's going to be so if you guys have not seen it the epic documentary collision came out about 10 years ago oh was it already 10 years ago christopher hitchens and pastor dug wilson who is right here with that epic beard they went on tour and so we really do appreciate those guys and so want to let you know well christopher hitchens is past so i mean posthumously we appreciate but want to let you know pastor dug wilson will be here and he will be debating ben burges doctor ben burges on whether not atheism is immoral so again yeah hey don't miss that one live guys it's going to be a party it's going to be a lot of fun and we really hope that you're here for it oh man you know what i missed out on during the debate i was like so just like so another one bottom right of your screen right now atheist versus christian on whether or not the problem of evil disproves god an in-person debate this friday you guys amazing so that's going to be epic want to let you know about that seriously don't miss it that's going to be a party so again hey uh you know these live events are fun and so that's a great reason to hit that subscribe button not only so you see the video but so you actually see it live as that's going to be fun that's down in georgia they're going to do that in person and so we're excited about that zaldrizo thanks for hanging out with us glad you're here friend metal jacket good to see you again michael lyon thanks for being here says the chat is super fun i'm so glad to hear that buddy odd jam says after show somewhere that's right want to let you guys know that both amy and standing for truth are doing after shows will link and after show they they didn't get me the link before the the debate which i usually ask for in order to put it in the description but you can find their channels by typing them into the space bar above and yes they're both having well kind of after shows standing for truth you see is hosting a debate with matt slick uh who else was it and snake was right so that's supposed to start i think it's pretty soon sider and port says hey hope the image i sent will work for the thumbnail for our team debate thanks buddy i appreciate that it's going to be amazing we haven't had to take team debate in a while so that'd be cool but yes calling lorenz good to see you buddy thank you for hanging out with us rufus st hubbins i think i said hello already good day to you sir glad you were here buddy james w says the devil went down to georgia basically but yes tom's chair has gone down to georgia you guys it's going to be pretty cool it's it's so it takes so much work to get you know whenever tom does an in-person debate a lot of work to get his sofa his lazy boy recliner chair down there but he's determined and so you know they fly it in you know but uh seminal fan thanks for hanging out with us says can't wait for the next evolution debate thanks so much buddy appreciate that your positivity means a lot joey e glad to see you here let's see the synagogue synagogue thank you for hanging out with us good ol cj cox and yes yes yes we have samuel lilla home good to see you and oh you guys ninja turtle good to see you by the way this on the bottom right of your screen right now is going to be epic as David Fitzgerald famous mythicist will be here tomorrow so don't miss out on that that's going to be really fun you guys and maybe you guys like podcasts maybe you're like me because i love podcasts and i want to let you know we are on virtually every podcast folks let me show you this right here sidebar on your screen to the far right oh yeah by the way we are on twitch you guys and we are excited about that if you happen to be subscribed to us using your amazon prime subscription want to give you a friendly reminder to renew your subscription in case it's expired and also i'm putting the link for our twitch in the description which is live right now in case you like twitch as i was saying we are on virtually every podcast app so the major ones such as spotify apple podcasts audible amazon music pandora iTunes google podcast podcast addict stitcher frankly you name it guys we're on there i mean we are just working really hard so that we are as convenient as possible for you to get to listen to modern day debate we hope that's a value to you as it's always a fun one it's always a uh it's a wild one and so we do appreciate you guys and so hopefully that's something that's useful to you if you like podcasts pull out your phone right now if you have a podcast app and you can't find us on there it should be rare and you let me know i will work hard to immediately get on there so that you can listen to modern day debate on your favorite podcast app so we appreciate that joe's broder says i'm a big fan this is my first time tuning in live keep up the good work thanks so much joe's broder joe's broder let me know if i mispronounced it but we do appreciate you buddy thanks for your positivity and let's see who else we have here we've got jesse showed it'll get to see a buddy appreciated your question during the debate i'm going to read through the nice super chat so like i said i'm not going to read through anything that's insulting we appreciate the guests and if we're going to be a neutral channel i can't read insulting super chats after they leave so what i do want to do instead is right now i want to read through the pleasant super chats that people sent in and that i save for right now because we just want to make sure the show itself is uh you could say more of a more oriented toward kind of that high value like real questions and stuff like that and so i will get started with these some of these guys are you guys are characters dave dahlia for fjord says we love james thanks so much dave seriously appreciate that love that means a lot and want to remind you guys our guests are linked in the description so the guests such as kent and donald they make this show possible i mean they're the lifeblood of the channel the debaters are so we owe everything to them we appreciate them they seriously rock we are just thankful for them and so yeah they are rocking awesome and let's see we have trying to look at just to be sure i don't read anything insulting oh yeah we had a nice one actually that i missed hot hotmeister said welcome back dr dino and then let's see do we have any other nice ones let's see sphincter of doom uh they kind of this is like kind of a nice one for donald i don't know but then we also have most of these we got to which is good but um thanks dahlia dave dahlia for says james we're so proud um that you're working on your phd thanks so much appreciate that it's exhausting to be honest sometimes i'm pretty tired um you can you can see me like sink into my seat as the debate goes you can notice like if you scroll to the beginning of the debate i'm all like like this but then by the end of the debate i'm just like oh hey guys hey up there um that's because i'm freaking tired but i am excited and so oh hang in there folks um i'm determined i'm seriously determined you guys to make this channel epic we're really thankful for yohannes hopefully you don't mind friend that i mentioned your name on air but yohannes has uh agreed to kind of help us out with our branding i'm new to branding i don't know what it means so he's teaching me though so i've got some things to read about in order basically to help us grow and have more of an impact on youtube which we yeah frank we're not ashamed i mean like we're not ashamed to say like hey hit that subscribe button we hope that this channel is useful to you and we're not yeah ashamed to want to grow because we think that we are having a positive impact on youtube i i do really want to host fair debates on a neutral platform that's the vision and that's what we're going to do believe me folks and jay mixon and jerry jeremy lee inman thanks for hanging out with us appreciate that brayden fears glad you made it better late than never buddy but yes you're very very late angel a thanks so much for hanging out with us is are you like i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you're being serious but in all caps angel a says oh you're so neutral buddy i think they're joking but jake a bricky jake a bricky improvement thanks for hanging out with us glad you're here buddy platium thanks says uh glad you're upping the quality hope you got my email thanks buddy i'm so sorry i'm behind on emails i remember opening your email and honestly it it was just that it's like i've honestly it was nothing about you friend oh discord you asked why am i not on the discord i've never answered you i honestly don't know how to use this discord i barely know how to use twitch you guys it's embarrassing so seriously our our peeps on twitch can tell you like yep james doesn't know what's going on so i seriously i'm sorry if i haven't gotten back to you on discord i try to funnel all messages to my modern day debate at gmail.com email address even twitter i try to tell people can you just send me a message on email because it's easier for me for recordkeeping if if we uh but nonetheless yeah i don't respond to discord and i'm so sorry that that's the case it's just so hard for me to learn i'm a boomer guys i mean take it easy on me but um yes platium i do appreciate your feedback and let me know what else it was you can even let me know right now in the chat i'll interact with you live and rich and hide good to see you buddy thanks for being with us says have fun everyone and need to sleep where'd you go hold on need to sleep oh i lost it but Amy Newman says epic amazing samuel little home says thanks for getting mine i hope to possibly do that as a super chat format in the future if possible i feel like you misunderstood the question but i do appreciate the asking um i guess if you really want to use paypal to send a super chat um it's easier if it's before the debate but you know i'll take it either way thank you i appreciate your support it's just the only reason i'm like reluctant because i agree i get it you don't want youtube having 30 a lot of people don't know youtube takes 30 of super chats yeah and so if you send let's say a ten dollar super chat we're still thankful because that's seven dollars but three dollars goes to the super low it is a youtube like filthy rich youtube nasty guys i mean hi what's the name of the person i can't remember that susan um whoa the ceo of youtube i mean the rumor is she wipes her butt with 20 dollar bills i don't know maybe but the point is youtube like they're doing pretty well um so i'm not trying to be mean but so i appreciate your inventive way of submitting a question and um i have nothing against youtube to be fair like i seriously um i do appreciate that we've grown because of youtube i mean that's you know where i would recommend anybody start and so jeremy lee inman good to see you and ocd tracy glad you're back friend hope you're doing well and let's see angel a are you saying naughty stuff you're just saying booyah why are they getting deleted i didn't see they say something bad i must have missed it but remember moderators we do want you to only delete hate speech and oh okay yeah so you guys we don't want any sort of like demographic slurs like um don't we don't want you to call people like oh you're g a y like we don't want any of that so you will get deleted if you do that it's like you guys seriously hold some some standard of civility and we just don't want people being picked on for these reasons you could say any protected class and frankly even non-protected if you're if you're like making fun of somebody because they're fat it's like oh come on really like is this you really you're gonna sink to that so we do want to ask you to keep it civil in the chat attacking arguments not people and let's see um oh thanks this one guy thanks for your super chat says for the 30 percent appreciate that buddy your support means a lot and um let's see here stripper lurker says the Illuminati with Burke is what we need well we might have that that could work um we haven't had one for like a year probably james w says i don't get discord either lol yeah man i don't know it's like twitter was hard enough for me to learn seriously i used to like tweet to myself and it would just it was very embarrassing shannon q would make fun of me platinum says well it's more about the management of the discord server itself oh that's right i do remember that i mean you can share more i'm here for a few more minutes so let me know if there's something in particular about it i remember you were being you're unhappy with how it was being done and i can understand if there's any sort of bias we don't want that i agree citer and port says is there anything i can do to help promote our team debate well friend i will try to come up with the um thumbnail asap and then if you want to share it with friends and i'll send it to all four of you guys if you guys want to share it um absolutely that helps and then james says i think most of the super chats are late-hearted and made in jest i agree about not reading them but i do think it's fun component of the platform yeah i mean as long as they're not we just we don't want them to be brutal that's a thing you know we don't want it when people are like hard on each other i agree like teasing like light teasing is i think we got a like we should be cool with that that's kind of like yeah like what's the big deal and um i try to have thick skin if you ever go to our debate with nathan thompson and r and r you can see all the comments that rip into me and i've left every one of them there forever yeah they're gonna be there for good and it's like my way i'm thinking you know what it's good for me to have thick skin some of those messages are mean but my philosophy is i want to be kind to everybody but i want to have the thick skin that says oh you're gonna install it me like i don't care samuel littleholm says ha ha i just don't have a credit card right now otherwise i probably would have uh went with supers well actually i gotta be i'll give you credit samuel i kind of like the idea of paypal like seriously um appreciate it thanks for your support buddy and yeah angela like no hate speech seriously like please we i think they gave you like a warning they didn't uh they didn't ban you yet so you know like please um work with us um platinum says well currently there are only me and another moderator active we often get overwhelmed by trolls and it's not always clear when we can intervene oh sorry to hear about that buddy i did not know that so um joey e still harassing me in the chat no i'm kidding he's he's just be playful it's okay but he is it's just james why not keep score on my debate numbers two and oh flat sky fell tonight and i don't have we ever hosted you i don't think we did but cider and port says already mentioned it everyone i work with so minimum 80 people watching that one cool bro well thanks for doing that buddy i appreciate you spreading the word about modern day debate we're excited to grow and so we are excited about the future believe me guys we have a lot of epic debates coming up and you guys don't miss this this one's coming up tomorrow it's snuck up on me so seriously yeah wednesday tomorrow see that debate at the bottom right of your screen it's going to be a triple threat matchup namely jesus mithasus david fits gerald is an atheist he says that jesus didn't exist he will be debating the buddhist brenton who you see there on the right side of your screen and who some of us call big brain brenton and they'll be going against cj cox who's a christian so it'll be a pretty fun one on it's titled who is or was jesus so that or i guess you could say um david fits your old response would say or did he even exist so that should be a juicy one folks we hope you tune in for that one tomorrow mario craig thanks for being around hanging out with us says i really about people unlike you buddy i don't know what you're saying but thanks buddy and platinum says other than that a lot more can be done in terms of advertisement and discord features to announce streams that's a good point i used to do that i used to actually announce it in discord and i stopped i'm sorry about that i seriously it's it just fell out of the habit i forgot said in addition it can host a lot more smaller debates that can't be dot dot dot but yeah seriously appreciate all of you guys um i platinum i'm sorry i just like working on the phd is exhausting a lot i mean like the attrition rates of people who like i mean like i've read that the attrition rates for like phd is like 50 percent like 50 drop out um it's freaking hard it's like honestly it's like an insane amount of work and this channel i do it because i enjoy it and it gives me a break and it gives me something fun to do but like uh if it's extra if it's extra time i just can't give it i'm sorry if you want to change things in discord i'm open to it uh totally cool if you want to arrange debates in the discord totally cool um i'm sorry it's just that right now it's like brah it's like i give you so many hours of my week like please sammy a little home thanks for hanging out and let's see platinum said done on the channel further more to go back on the previous topic for the past year it's been mostly just me while i was graduating and also had quite some big personal issues i'm really sorry platinum that it's been hard in your personal life like i seriously am so i i'm sorry to hear that friend um um i appreciate you sharing it and trusting me and like letting me know and that you feel comfortable saying it in chat we hope that if you you know if it's so if you would feel better taking time off from the discord no one blames you you don't worry i would i i'm not entitled to any of your help so i want you to know that like we just appreciate you helping at all thank you for having done that we hope you feel supported here in the chat just as a community we we do appreciate you and we hope you feel welcome and so um seriously appreciate you buddy and i'm sorry that it has been hard the last year and organic jerk thanks for hanging out with us said did i hear that emie newman was hosting an after show yes i think it might be starting it's probably starting any minute so i should probably go because one thing these post credits are fun but i think they accidentally sometimes run into they overlap with uh after shows jmixon says what do you need help with i'm sure there are many skilled patrons patrons in the group and people who can contribute to the cause oh i appreciate it it's more that platinum um platinum says a lot more can be done with delegating the workload there's a lot of people volunteering to do it um to help you out without asking anything back but you but you do got to um human girl thanks for stopping by i platinum i don't know exactly what you're saying but um i'm not sure what you want from me i'm like bro i'm tired i'm exhausted i'm like on the verge of burnout all the time but so it's like seriously if you guys want i trust you guys to do what you want in the discord just keep it fair and so cider import said would you ever want steven krauter on the channel if so i'll debate him uh yeah we'd like him on the channel but i mean realistically it's like it's going to cost ten thousand dollars it's ten i mean it's probably going to cost more than that but i would guess a minimum of ten thousand which i can't afford um o cd tracy says hey i'm an actually i'm actually an artist and a voice actress i'm going to email you to see what i can do to help you out thanks so much o cd tracy seriously that means a lot i appreciate that support and amy numan says woohoo after show starting soon i'm going to pin that to the top of the chat thanks for sharing the link amy and james w says and don't forget there will be that after show but yeah thanks guys let's see other super chats i might have missed uh oh so much oh so many burps uh thank you let's see jamexon says duck dodgers of the 21st and a half century oh i duck dodgers well at least we don't know who they were referring to but thank you so much for i'm trying to look for any that were uh directed at me got some about darwin i didn't let's see um we've got some about people who like flat earth um i think that was all for the super chats directed toward me so um thank you guys so much for your support and thanks for your patience as uh like i said we're doing this new format where we take only serious questions during the debate and so we save the silly super chats for afterward so appreciate all your support guys seriously oh james w will be in on the after show at amy numan's channel so check that out as well james w is just on debating on um what was it let's see i can't even remember oh missing 411 missing 401 sorry i'm so sorry bro i'm just that tired m i k says hi thanks for saying hi we appreciate you m i k glad you are with us and platinum says but you do got to utilize it i get that you're busy but a solution could be to point someone to communicate with you oh my gosh okay um platinum you're appointed to communicate with me i've already told you all the ideas that you want to do in discord feel free to do them but seriously when you when you keep asking me for like i'm just like i bro i don't know what you want like giving you permission like i i'm like it's like you go appoint someone like i'm just like gosh i'm sometimes i'm amazed it's like i put like 20 hours a week and it's true i enjoy the channel but it's like it's like it's like i'm doing my best so um it's like maybe it's just that there you might want to when you get your phd platinum maybe you'll understand how freaking busy it is seminal fan 291 said bring back raging atheist he's funny to watch rage we might um we hope he's doing well and we do appreciate him and so uh it's it's been a while already but want to say thanks everybody we will hopefully see you here tomorrow for that epic debate and so thanks for hanging out with us guys seriously let me know if there's something i can do to make your day better i do appreciate you guys we appreciate you hanging out with us you guys seriously mean a lot seriously you brighten my day you make it fun and so you can email me at moderndaydebate at gmail.com and i am here for you friends i'm dead serious about that like we do want to support you and so we hope it feels like a community a community here we appreciate you thanks for all your support you guys seriously you make this awesome and so yes very excited and with that keeps everything out the reasonable from the unreasonable and see you tomorrow night for that debate that you see on the bottom right of your screen or on who is or was or is was is or did exist jesus tomorrow that is going to be an epic discussion a triple threat which we haven't had for a long time so that'll be fun seminal fan 291 says modern day debate this is my first time watching live i'll be sure to be back for more live action thanks so much friend i'm glad that you were i hope you enjoyed it friend and that's right james w said see you tomorrow james and thursday for patreon that's right patreon meeting this thursday if you're in the um top two tiers i forgot the names of them front row seating and general admission so if you're in those tiers on patreon hanging out with us this thursday it kind of gives us direction on the channel we kind of talk about like what we want to do how we want to improve it as well as just catching up hanging out you know it's kind of like have a have a brusky and hang so taggera hitman says good night james see you thanks for hanging out with us goodbye human girl goodbye calling the runs we appreciate you robert page says thanks for all you do modern day debate thanks so much i appreciate that friend and thanks rich and highs asleep well james and amy newman as i mentioned is linked in the top of the chat and so yes see you tomorrow for that debate folks would be fun keeps lifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable take care