 Welcome back to the breakfast and plus TV Africa time for us to take you through the pages of a national deal is We do have a Ziko. Yeah, I took who joins the conversation Good morning a Ziko. Yeah, I took it's good to have you join us and the happy new year Seems like we can hear Happy new year and I'm always a pleasure to be with you. Thanks for joining us Thank you for joining we start off with the punch new sweep of this morning And as always will be paying attention to the top stories on the punch newspaper the banner caption for the punch says PDP others kickers Buhari dismisses state police insist on grazing roots That's the board caption for the punch underneath your several riders opposition party a fennefer Capets president for saying state, please not an option or Hanayzee plans meeting President dismisses plea for Namdi Kano's release We have to go back to grazing roots to address farmers headers clashes That's according to the president saying all of this issues are cultural concern and Away from the board caption. You also find debt servicing gobs 76% of revenue Ex-parts Buhari disagree on borrowing all of that is also on the punch newspaper Finally federal government releases Gazette declaring bandits terrorists and the Southwest governor's son attack Malami IG AGF and falls Allege in punitive leg of sets up committee agreed to give judgment and And Creditors land that's also a rider underneath the caption Vice president. Yeah, I'm your seabed draw plans meeting with NLC over Subsidy removal and transports pilotive. I mean, we're still moving with that plan of 5,000 are for transportation and Senate probes The PBE alleges on remitted 679.4 million dollars rents on ports concession That's also another caption You find it right there. No cuts case stops Balogun from becoming Olu bad Kingmakers are quoted on that and let's see if we can take one or two just before we move away from the punch newspaper So just invade Ogun community kill two and label victims Boko Haram terrorist So that's the father father not kicks against legal advice freeing suspect Now this is some of the headlines that you find on the punch newspaper this morning went out to the Nigerian Tribune Big story. There says federal government formally declares bandits as terrorists. I Have no interest in who emerges my successor says president Buhari and also Two staff members killed three expatriates missing as bandits attack Zungem hydro dam Zunger I beg your pardon I hope to see my son before I die father of Abdul mutalab jailed in the US for terrorism says and also a co-building collapse tribunal blames incident on erosion of professional ethics and due diligence Roman is death Lagos exonerates doing college students and staff 2022 budget Nigeria to pay more for non-alcoholic beverages And also on the Nigerian Tribune federal government orders probe into a lay fair attempted jailbreak Those are the stories of what my go-do Lagos to set for five hundred and forty nine plots for Shanghisha landlord Those are the stories on the Tribune Away from the tribune. Let's check out the daily independent newspaper and the board header reads No political solution for Namdi Kano. That's what the president is quoted to say you have several writers underneath that board caption List condition to sign electoral act amendment bio says government has declared bandits terrorists and cattle grazing routes to resolve headers and farmers clashes Says he has no pre-fed candidate for 2023 presidency Talking about the Magodo Tossel Lagos to allocate land to 549 judgment creditors 2023 APC enemies rooting for a Jonathan as party candidates That's also another caption you find this morning and the P I beg your pardon the BPE failed to remit 679.4 a million dollars from pot concession in ten years. That's what senators quoted to say tension in or shown as APC Reconciliation team meets a reg basola and Oye Tola Committee we consults Gombe governor and predecessors. This is some of the riders or the rider You found underneath the boat caption I GP stops police training that dehumanizes recruit recruits Or recruits and that's also another story or caption you find on the daily independent Newspaper this morning. Buhari comfortable with killings in the land Are you is quoted on that? Criticizes president for saying state police not an option Lagos Klairs five Darwin College student and staff of Oremone's death These are the headlines on the daily independent newspaper Leadership it's clear APC won't hold convention in February Windows closed as notification time to a neck elapsed Friday 2022 budget federal government imposes ten naira tax per liter on soft drinks So I'll lose stakeholders. Okay. We draw a lot of police from my go to a state and also I carried a little ones of looming jailbreak in on do We can also find here. Cardi Bowe's wife replaces a rarumé on NNPC board 2023 I will keep my successor a Secret says says president mama Dabuari and of course finally federal government declares bandits terrorist Miss Tanya talk. Good morning. Once again. Thanks for joining us Good morning to pleasure to be with you. All right We're just gonna start from the last story that I read the federal government has finally declared bandits as a terrorist are you excited? Excited better late than never I've always at all times had a position here that the bandits are getting a lot to emboldened by our Ineptitude and our complacency We seem to be Either fearing them or accommodating them or at best tolerating them and Looking at the level of mayhem looking at how Vicious they are looking at how heartless they have been in killing Nigeria's how ruthless they have been I think that it's been a long time coming and I think that You know about I even if I remember very well, that should be on the 15th of November a court had declared them terrorists and Our dear attorney general Mr. Malami didn't think it necessary. It took him all of almost two months at least seven weeks Now I'm trying to contrast these with what happened with I pop 48 hours 48 hours within when they were Declared by a court of competent jurisdiction as terrorists. It was gazeted 24 hours But these people it has taken all of seven weeks going to two months For it to be done and when you hear the narratives and you see the body language And you see how emboldened they are you cannot bet just ask ourselves What is the honest story about these terrorists? I think I can boldly say that now though before now for me as far as I was concerned I've been terrorist the second thing is that there are rules of Engagement within the military and they are setting things you do and it gets into the court of human violation the way that you deal with successionists is different from the way you deal with people that you call You know maybe kidnappers and the way you deal with bandits and Finally the way you deal with terrorists you are allowed to use maximum force without Not minding whatever collateral damages. I mean within reasonable extent, you know for you to get them out for instance You know by my friend and brother L Rufi as always said, you know what just just Level the forest get all of them out. They'll be collateral damages. I agree But for goodness sake, you know a friend of mine had an accident and extremely rich person was I mean He could afford anything and he was just pushed down and his hand. He had them this fracture on his hand now Because of how he was bleeding He could afford any ambulance to anywhere in the world But if the bleeding was to continue for the next one, maybe next Say for hours he would die So they told him guy It either we amputate this hand so that you leave or we manage it as here We can get you out and we can't manage the blood and you may die It was a hard decision Because he had only needed to be able to treat the hand But for him to stay alive. He had to just take a family decision and say cut it off They cut off the hand and they were able to treat him today. He's alive and well, but he's lost alarm So you cannot if you want to eat an omelet you may have to break the shell no matter how much you love it So for where we are we may need to say these people are killing us. They are killing economy They are killing our people. They are killing our mindset Everybody now lives in fear Trauma has become one of the biggest problems of this nation Because you can't this trepidation in the land because of these people So we may need to take a hard decision And I think this is the first step to being able to take that hard decision because I talk Terrorists they can use maximum first on them now what miss I talk, you know I don't know if you would agree that the answer cannot simply always be maximum force We're dealing with a situation where Persons either, you know, you know fallouts from Boko Haram and you know is swap or you know simple You know persons who just have you know found ways to arm themselves have continued, you know to Terrorize Nigerians kidnap kill burn down villages, you know kill people in their dozens for years now The answer cannot simply be Maximum force bombardment and some of all of that we have numerous security agencies that have been set up We have the DSS. We have the NIA. We have many of them that have, you know continued, you know to be in existence in Nigeria But don't seem to have the answers to mandatory intelligence gathering and the likes Can you know we always or should we always look for Maximum force bombardments calling in the army, you know every single time that there is a situation like this And also to chip in Should because you know the law is very explicit about the issue of mother I mean the Constitution it makes provision and at the end of the day the end result for all of this is usually for this group and This group of peasants whether you talk about the e-swap or the Boko Haram or the bandits as it were you talk about death So so do we like he's mentioned need to use force where Death is death and of course their penalties for those who engage in this vices or vice And we always is not the same thing and we I'm sure you get a distinction You know, there's this song by I think it's Kenny Rogers He says you don't have to fight to be a man But he says sometimes we have to fight because you are a man That's the point We have tried to use this pesticide and romanticize these people for a long time How long are we going to continue this way for how many years? Have we not said oh, you know kinetic force is not always the answer Have we even used it first before you say must we always have we have been using it We've every now and then you hear reports of no no no no in their dozens We hear reports of the Air Force bombarding a bandit territories So it's not it's not new that we have used force You know, if you are saying now we're gonna be using super tucano jet in in bandit territories and the lights We haven't fixed our problem with the borders and how poor our borders are We haven't fixed the challenges with arms proliferation across Nigeria We've not you know equipped our Nigerian police force enough to be able to take action in you know, these communities We cannot simply always Really just call the army And all the time and that's the point that I'm making I Have concern with the word always have we really Deployed why do you buy do you know the cost of want to cannot yet? Didn't we think through the process? Please this is a lot of money that could have been used for education health care Infrastructure we use them to buy to cannot yet like somebody says don't blow your trumpet and ask him is it's trumpet a toy You buy a trumpet because you want to blow a trumpet trumpet is not a toy But that's not the point. Let me tell you where I want to be in line with you In every battle the strategy means that you have the top the mid the bottom Okay, so there is this this the moment You know that they can blast off the whole of this area that knowledge alone without the action Makes the people to say guy we better just think of on a way out Game one game two I've say this time and time again if you want to turn off the light Deprive that flame of oxygen Staff it of oxygen and eventually the flame will go off If you have a candle and you have a bigger bowl, especially is with transparent Put the bowl over the candle and you'll discover that with time the flame goes off because you've stuffed it of the Oxygen that it needs to be able to operate What is the oxygen of? Insurgency It is the young people that they use they recruit into their army Why are the young people recruited? Is it love of their ideology or out of having a lack of means of lively And the answer is as clear as day because of lack of you know Means of livelihood So what do you do the cost of the to kind of jet before now if I were to be their advisor I'll say deploy it into maximum deployment of production opportunities job creation Enlightenment Education of the people and these children would rather be in school than be in the forest on the forest Rather be with their parents. So I agree with you that kinetic is not always the answer But we have failed in the other arm of no sniffing of the oxygen taking the wind of the assay So it has to be a project approach on carrot. Yeah, we would have to move on to something else You know, but I would also agree that you cannot, you know, set up factories and you know Education in an environment that isn't safe. So it needs to be safe first But it's a it's a it's a bigger conversation, you know, that would have to have alright Just before we look at you know, the punchy newspaper, you know, the case where it's in security as much as we would say yes There's constant, you know The issue of unemployment is you know top on the list. Well, you also want to agree with me with the fact that That there seem to be some kind of affiliation with Being from a particular tribe because I have also read where This persons have demanded that they want to have a face of with the president and they want to have a budgetary allocation And so therefore it could just be, you know, a Tribe issue that we the Senate set of persons from a particular tribe and therefore I don't know why they think that they have to demand of the president to have a meet with them and all of these other issues surrounding it but not necessarily the fact that Employments might just be, you know, one of the concerns but moving away from that I'm hope I was hoping and I wish that, you know We had more time to talk about this issue on the punch newspaper the PDP on others kick as the president dismisses insist on Grazing roads now the president had said that, you know, state policing is not the solution to all of the insecurity Situation that were faced with as a country and he likened that to the relationship between local government and You know governors or state government and to say that the relationship is not very cordial as you constantly see constantly see the Domination of state government or, you know, the state government over the local government But I would like to share your thoughts on that briefly as we proceed I will say this the first is that I've said a story here when I went to the World Bank with the former CME Mother will conjure a well and talking about land use act. They said it would be difficult for you to Expunge it for your cons from your position, but let's walk around it. That's what they say that the World Bank Let's walk around it our president with all due respect has a certain fixation Luckily for us. We have less than two years Let us walk around him because he just as the way his mindset is And which in my opinion is a cake. It's anachronistic It is it is it's like the time the land that time forgot grazing roots Let him trace it and let it go through asorok and let God bring down asorok so that cows can pass I think we've gone beyond that but you see I think it's at a stage where Mr. President's mindset will not change too easily On it. So let's luckily is not when he got the first time and we have eight years to deal with right now I mean his his rule is almost over because politics has started So let's manage the situation when the new government comes in they will be able to settle this problem Make sure that ranches are created. Make sure that these herdsmen Who are Nigerians like any other Nigerian are given means of livelihood I was one of those that advocated that the Niger deltas who are fishermen Their their means of livelihood is being taken away from them So we should give them the 13 but governments will be able to to to create alternate means of livelihood for them At the same time Would be one of those advocating that whatever is needed to be done for these herdsmen who are also Nigerians To have ranches and proper means of livelihood Because i'm not going to have a fellow Nigerian Take through the the forest in the name of this is custom on tradition So do you agree with the president that state policing is not a solution to the Uh the security challenges that were faced with as a country I listened to that interview and I heard him talk about state policing and In my opinion he was a little bit incoherent Because I was really trying to understand exactly the paradigms he was The perspectives that he had and for me it was not very clear the analogies he was giving They didn't just quite settle with me to show me the lines of thought the clarity in the lines of thought The argument being put forward to tell me that did he understand what state policing really means I think like he said when they asked him about Restructuring he said exactly what do you understand by restructuring? I need to ask him exactly. What does he understand by state policing? Is not an abolition? Okay How about the the judiciary? There's independence of the judiciary And why is the governor's using not using it to make sure that none of us exist and everything I understand how these things work But you see when you realize as a governor that sooner or later you're going to leave the field Time will not permit for me to give some of the Examples that I've had but I believe that policing is local is national. It's international It's corporate best practice. I don't have to reinvent the wheel so I just think that um, he's he's not probably as informed as we would expect him to be on the concept of state policing Oh, well, but he actually like him that concept on the on other things also, you know, not just state policing because you know If you're talking about that interview and other interviews, you know, it's pretty much the same experience that we you know Nigerians have had You know and the same reactions Nigerians have had, you know after every interview with the president You know and on the question with regard state police. He started speaking about traditional rulers and the likes And the bottoms of traditional rulers quickly speak on the doe and college issue Sylvester Roman 11 year old boy the legacy government has said that the five accused and The staff of the school have no questions to answer with regards murder or involuntary manslaughter It it it's an extremely sensitive issue to me that I I if I had my way I would not Um, I would not like to comment on it because I may use words that are not appropriate and what I usually do is on situations that I feel extremely emotional about I like to give myself period of um, I listen to all your analysis and everything And I think that the time has come when every life must matter and secondly, there must be consequences A little child is see the life is snuffed off that boy and I mean it's just it's just I don't know. Can we please permit me to To to pass I beg I beg of you please as we can um Messiah talk, you know, we will you know make plans to of course bring you in on you know an extensive discussion on some of All these things Um, that we've already started today, you know, you know very likely I don't I'm not sure how soon but we'll of course reach out to you and um, you know, put that together But you know for now we are out of time. Thank you very much for always joining us and for making our time To speak with us and to speak with my endurance. We wish you're very interesting day ahead 2022 is yours for the taking go for it. God bless you All right, many thanks All right, stay with us. We'll take a short break when we come back We're moving into sharing with you what happened on this day in history And of course right after that a new terrible drug that seems as being found to be effective against covid-19 That of course was put together by the afe babalala university. We'll talk about that Right after today in history. Stay with us here on the breakfast. I'm positive. Yeah