 Lifting the failure is too much intensity most of the time for most people unless you program it right. And then it's pretty awesome. I'm so glad that we, we finally did this for everybody because the truth is, I know that each of us use this technique within our own programming, but I also think that it's something that we rarely use it compared to how we used to use it all the time. And I think the reason why that's been our messaging since the beginning that you can get in the best shape of your life and never trained a failure, uh, we intentionally set out to help people move in that direction because we knew that they would get more benefit from it. But that doesn't mean that there isn't value in utilizing it, but how you use it is so important. We can still get after it, man. Yeah. Well, that's it. So the problem was wasn't that there wasn't any value in it. The problem was that it caused people to plateau so hard, um, and because it does produce very rapid gains, but then you plateau so hard, um, that actually takes weeks to reverse out of it or it can cause injury. And so the issue was it just never was programmed right. Every program that include failure training, they couldn't solve that problem. How do we get the maximum benefits? How do we minimize the negatives? Um, and so for the last, I don't know, a decade since we had mine pump, this was something that all of us have really tried to figure out because otherwise it was kind of by feel, right? Like, you know, your body or experience or you're training a client, you can see the progress, you know, when you throw it in, but like, how do you program it so that it's scheduled besides telling people, if you feel good, throw in some sets of failure because you know, that'll lead to just people overdoing it or underdoing it. Yeah. And, um, and that's with maps and a ball of advances, what we kind of figured out is here's how you program failure and it seems to work well, very well and avoid those plateaus when you alternate it every other week with volume training, which isn't a failure and you throw in some deload weeks and a few other things, then it's like, it's amazing. Well, that's always been the challenge for us is to come up with these sort of general guidelines and parameters, uh, because of all those individual variances all over the place to consider, you know, like there's always going to be somebody that, uh, benefits tremendously from maybe going a little bit further along and more excessive or somebody that's, you know, way less, uh, but, but in terms of like your everyday average person, that's our avatar. That's our person that we're trying to kind of steer. And so to be able to create a more intensified program, um, we had to really kind of consider, you know, how, how do we like, how do we make this appropriate for them? Yeah, it's an, it's an incredible technique that has just been abused for several decades now. And I think a lot of the reason behind that, like the science came out and it's been out for a long time now and the benefits of it. And then you had, uh, the, I don't know, the over glorification of it with bodybuilders making these intense hype videos that I'm 100% guilty of, you know, falling into and, and loving to watch before I go lift. And then I go in with that mentality, almost every workout and seeing some initial results. And then, and then getting that confirmation bias that, oh, this is, this is the shit. This says work and then becoming that kid who goes in the gym and lifts that way every exercise, every set, every time I train. And then there's the other part of that where we start to attach soreness to effective workouts, thinking that, oh, the more sore I got, the, the more potential results I have, not realizing how much I was overdoing it. And in fact, that's probably the reason why I stayed in a hit a hard plateau for so long. Yeah, one of the biggest, uh, detriments or, I don't know, issues I have with our space is that people, they, they divide themselves into camps and you'll often have people who are like, oh, it's about low volume, high intensity train. That's the way to train. It's like, no, no, no, no, drop the volume a little bit. It's, uh, excuse me, drop the intensity a little bit. It's super high volume, right? This debate has been happening for decades, by the way. I remember in the seventies, it was like the Arnold camp versus like the Mike Mencer camp in the nineties. You had Doreen Yates, who was the high intensity, low volume guy, and then you had other bodybuilders who were like, like Lee Priest, who was like, high volume, lower intensity. That's the way to go. The really, what's funny about it is it's, you got to look at all these things, like tools and all these tools are valuable if they're used right. So like, if you work in construction, you can look at a hammer and be like, Oh my God, this, this is, this is the tool. I can do everything with it. No, you can't. You can do some great stuff with it. But other things that doesn't work so well, other things you need other tools. So you want to look at all these different techniques that all have been shown to have value either through studies or anecdotes and experience and then say, okay, here's the best here are the tools. What's it good for? What's it not good for? How do I program this properly so I can maximize its benefits and minimize its potential negatives? And when it comes to failure training, nobody did that. No, if you followed programs that incorporated failure, the entire program incorporated failure, it was all low volume, high intensity. You never saw them utilize different aspects of training, put them together in a way to where they compliment each other, where one helps with the recovery from the other one and the other one sends a signal that builds muscle throughout the whole process. So by incorporating by putting them together the right way, you actually maximize all of their benefits. Nobody does it. It's always camp. It's always camp. There was a point I felt like it was almost competitive for people to come up with the craziest experience, the craziest workout program and they could possibly make it go through and who demoralized that person the most. And it was like a lot of coaches, I would just look at the volume and the intensity and it was insane. It was like, what benefit was the person going through that actually receiving other than just getting punished? It's funny. If you look at the muscle building space and you go, I mean, you can go all the way back to the 1920s. Here's the, here's how it kind of morph, right? It went from full body, three day a week routines. Then that turned into somewhat kind of body part splits. Then it turned into double split high volume routines where bodybuilders would, they would brag about how long the workouts were. I'm in the gym for two and a half hours twice a day. That was Arnold's era. Then you had bodybuilders like, I only work out for 20 minutes, but I go to failure, force reps, force negatives. This was Mike Menser and his followers. I remember in the nineties, this debate happened again because in the volume crowd climbed up, right? With Lee Haney and all those bodybuilders of the 80s. And then again, you had Doreen Yates come out. He wins Mr. Olympia. And he goes, no, no, I only do like six, like five sets or six sets to failure per body part. And of course everybody followed him because he was Mr. Olympia. There's value in all these things. And it's not one or the other. It's not like if you train one way, you can't incorporate the other one. You can, you just got to know how to kind of piece them together because you can't do all of them at once, right? You can't do high volume and failure and high frequency because you'll, you'll kill yourself. So the key is look at all of them, see how they work. How do I plug these pieces in so that they fit? And this was the puzzle that we, look, you know, we started Mind Pump eight years ago. Maps and Ebola, the first program was created 10 years ago. Over that whole period of time, this was something that all of us, through interviewing people, strength experts and coaches and trainers and bodybuilders and experimenting, like we figured this out. And that's, you know, we put it in the program and we're still in the launch phase, I think, right, Doug? So people could still get it with a yes, perfect, but we're already getting feedback and people are like, Oh my God, this is so it'll be fun to see the experience that people get. Yeah, because, you know, it's failures. Pretty cool, right? Because there's studies on like, I remember before these studies came out, people were like, Oh, high reps don't build muscle. If you do like 25, 30 reps, you're not going to build muscle. Then the studies came out and said, actually, if you do 30 reps to failure, it builds just as much muscle as 10 reps does because it goes, because it's to failure. And then those studies came out. Then there were studies that showed that, Oh, failure training works great, but the volume training works great longer because the failure training plateaued so hard. However, the failure training produces faster results. When it does produce results, you got to take all these into consideration, plug them in and then boom, you get, you know, phenomenal results. And what's cool about it, you mentioned soreness. The soreness you get from training to failure, low volume is different than the high volume, lower intensity training. The soreness from the failure training happens later. What is that? I don't know. I don't know. It's really weird though. It is very strange. You know, it reminds me of us trying to explain to the difference of like the way your muscle looks when you lift heavy weights versus, it's like the versus the kind of like hypertrophy pump look that bodies have. It's like, still haven't found the words to explain that. I just know I've been doing it long enough. I've seen it on enough bodies, including myself, to know it exists, but can't put words to what it is. There's something there also with the type of soreness that you get based off of the type of lift that you're getting. Some with the mechanical stress for sure. You think it's that or do you think, can we actually feel potentially a difference in fast twitch versus slow twitch fibers? Are you think, you think it's something like that? It's the fluid, I think too, of being able to move out the cells and to actively help kind of with the recovery and facilitate that, you know, with that type of training versus like, you know, you're more like heavy loaded mechanical stress that you're facing. Yeah, I mean, we're speculating because there hasn't been really good studies on this, but the fatigue you feel is different too. When I would do the higher volume training, the, cause like with anabolic advanced, I mean, this is part of the program. There's a lot more to it, but you alternate high volume, low volume, lower intensity, higher intensity and then there's more to it. But the fatigue after the high volume training feels more, I don't know, muscular. Whereas the fatigue after the failure training feels more central nervous system. Like, cause the failure training workouts were only like, they'd be like 25 minutes, 30 minutes, right? Cause it's low volume. But I mean, when Doug and I were first experimenting and both of us would look at each other and be like, dude, I was 20 minutes, but I feel like, man, I really taxed the shit out of me, but my muscles don't feel taxed. It's my CNS feels taxed. Then you do the volume training. So it's really interesting the difference in how it feels on the body. So it's got to be sending a signal that's different. I was listening to, I was at Dr. Andy Galpin on Huberman and they're kind of breaking down like delayed onset soreness and how he speculated that like, you know, we thought it was like micro tears and like the rebuilding process and all that. And then he said, yeah, that's probably partially part of it. But the majority of it, he thinks is more of this like, sort of like an immune response to stress. And so like the, yeah, the amount of inflammation that you produce is, you know, it's individualized, but you're going to get more of a reactive response, you know, from your immune system, more so than just like, you know, the rebuilding process. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense actually. Yeah. That's interesting. It is interesting because soreness is such a poor indicator. It's interesting to observe, but it doesn't really tell you. It's like the whole pain, you know, like perception, right? Like how that varies so much. Yeah. Cause you could, you could, I mean, if you know your body well and you have good programming, you will sometimes train a sore muscle. And I used to think you couldn't. I used to think don't train a sore muscle. It's the worst thing you could possibly do to leave it alone. It's like the best thing. Yeah. And then I learned later on, like training a sore muscle sometimes, like amplify growth. Yeah, but how you do it is so important. That's it. Cause that was the mistake that I made was thinking that like, oh, then I'll just, I'll just train through the soreness. And beat the crap out of it. But then I'm still pushing to that same level intensity when you are training to facilitate recovery, the mindset is completely different. It's almost like they're totally different work. I don't know, even if you're doing the same exercises, the approach is like it's completely different. And you have to be able to make that switch, which is difficult to do because you get into this like way of training and you kind of marry that philosophy. And then no matter what day you're training, you try and approach the lifts like that where you have to be able to weave in and out of it. If you're really trying to maximize your results. Yeah, speaking to that, it's better to program, to have structure to your programming and to weave in and out before you hit the plateau. Cause what people tend to do is they tend to, smart people tend to do this. Dumb people tend to do something different. So dumb people just keep going through, they're plateauing, then they start to hurt, then they over train, they just keep pushing. Smart people wait till they plateau and then they switch. Really smart people program so the plateaus don't happen. So you don't, yeah, you, you're ahead of it. So you switch up the programming before you see a plateau and you end up avoiding those plateaus or making the plateau happen much later. So you get one of the, one of the things that you've said on the podcast many times that I love, that I think it's a great way to explain it is that what you can tolerate is not necessarily what is optimal. Right. And I think we mistake that a lot, like, and including myself, like I do something and I'm like, oh, I can handle that. So therefore you do more or you continue to do that. Well, just because you can handle it, it doesn't necessarily mean this is what's going to give you the best results. So by like, just how we move our phases, right? You technically could get away with four to six weeks of training in a particular phase, but we move you out of that phase at three or four most in most maps programs to try and stay ahead of that. Instead of waiting like, oh, I could still go to six and then you feel the breakdown or you feel the plateau and then transitioning, it's like, stay ahead of it, keep the body transitioning, but still give it enough time to where it can get the benefits. Yes, exactly. What's up, everybody? We're going to give away the new Maps Anabolic Advanced program again, because we're still in the launch period. So here's how you can win free access to Maps Anabolic Advanced. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop this video. Also subscribe to this channel, turn on notifications, and then we'll look through the comments. If we pick you as the winner, we'll let you know in the comment section. Also again, it's on sale because it's a launch. There's three days left for this sale. So instead of paying retail, which will be 157, you only pay $97 plus we're going to throw in two free eBooks, advanced train techniques, and the carb cycling diet. So sign up now or within the next three days, get the discounted price plus the two free eBooks. If you're interested, go to anabolicadvanced.com and then use the code AA60 for the discount and the free books. All right, here comes the show. All right, speaking of stress and stuff, I got to tell you guys about this weekend. So this weekend I had my niece and nephew visit from Vegas. So this is Jessica's niece and nephew. Great time, right? So they're both teenagers. So I had my teens, I had them. And then we had the toddler and the infant and Jessica is excited. So she's like, let's plan a day. We'll go up to Monterey Bay Aquarium with everybody and the teenagers will drive up on their own since we'll have the little ones. I was gonna say, do you have to rent a bus when you go with a- No, we'll get the suburban. We can all fit, I know. I got so many buses. So I'm like, okay, I'm game. Let's give this a shot and see what happens. So I mean, so we go up. First of all, there was traffic on the way there cause everybody had this, I guess idea. So it's an hour and a half in the car with a toddler and an infant, right? She's, Dahlia's not even three months and we're driving up. And so Aurelius, we're like, he'll try, he'll nap in the car. No, he didn't nap in the car. So he missed the nap. Dahlia, she refused to sleep as well. So I'm like, oh, this is gonna be, this is gonna be awesome. We get there and it's super packed and it just turned into meltdowns. Like meltdown after meltdown. And Jessica and I are trying to manage the little ones. Meanwhile, the teens, my son driving, he gets up there right after us cause we told them to lag cause we knew we might have to pull over or something, right? They pull up to the parking lot, parking lot's full. So now they're driving around trying to find parking. They drove around for an hour and a half trying to find parking. Are you kidding me? No, swear to God. An hour and a half? Yeah, trying to find parking. Cause it was apparently one of the busiest. President's weekend, I guess. Yeah, weekends of the year. So I'm on the phone with them, right? I hear my daughter yelling at my son cause she's gotta go pee and he won't pull over. I'm managing, you know, Aurelius is losing his shit. Like losing his mind. Dahlia is crying. So Jessica's like, at one point, Jessica's like, I don't give a shit if people look. I'm pulling my boob out and I'm gonna nurse her in front of everybody. I'm like, you do your thing, babe. I'm gonna give her shit. She's like walking around with, trying to nurse the baby, you know? And it's just, we couldn't really see anything cause we're trying to walk around. We got two strollers. Aurelius wants me to hold them. Oh my God. I'm trying to push the stroll at the same time. And then just like seas of people on top of all this, right? It was just crazy. We ended up staying, we stayed for 30 minutes. We stayed for 30, 40 minutes. Bro, you should have stayed in Vegas. Like I went to Mandalay Bay and honestly, I had a better experience of their aquarium than I do like the Monterey Bay one. Dude, it's sick. Have you ever been there? Yeah, I have. And Monterey's- Is it bigger than Monterey's? It's not big. It's like better. It's just better. It's well designed. Let's put it that way. Cause Monterey's a great aquarium. Monterey, and the thing about Monterey's has everything specific to the Monterey Bay. And so this had like some cool like Kimono Dragon. Oh wow. You know, had this really cool viewing where it was like a sunken ship. They built this like almost like sunken pirate ship. So you could view out and see this huge shark tank and then they would swim right over your head and everything. And it's just like Vegas, they think of all these things of like how to like make it a little more entertaining. No, dude, we could barely stay. We didn't even meet up with the teenagers. They finally parked them. Bro, you're crazy that you do that. You were the one too that planned to think. I can't remember what it was. I remember I opted out though. You guys did, you all did something for one of the holidays. Like you wanted to go somewhere publicly. And like, I'm like, I'm so, if it's a holiday, like where are the crowds are? I'm right over here. Yeah. Like I'm not going to like the most popular place to go for Fourth of July or New Year's or things like that. I'm just not a fan of that. Like I'll go on an off day. You should have seen this on the way back too. Cause we're trying to get back to the car and there's just kids babies are screaming. And Dahlia now wants to be held. So we're trying to push the strollers and Jessica. She's like, oh, finally we're going to get out, do something. And then it's like, no doubt. So who's quicker to lose their shit in a situation that you or her? Oh, um, good question. Boy. Let me think how to answer that. No, not, you know what? I mean, both of us because it's pretty hot. It's, it's, it's give or take. She, I mean, that's a hundred percent me. Cause Katrina, I'm, I'm, I will lose my shit way quick. She knows I don't even like going to the mall. She's like, she's, she's so good about it. She'll know like, if she sees like so that and we're with someone like that, she'll be like, Hey, we got to get out of here pretty soon. And she'll be like, what? She was like, my husband, my husband will be a pain in the ass in about 15 more minutes. If we don't get out of here. I had to bribe him Aurelius with candy on the way back, which I knew was going to just make things worse in it. You know? Oh, bro. It's such a nightmare. Oh, it's so terrible. And then the day after. So is it you or her? So is it you or her who's most likely to lose their shit? We almost got out of that. It's balanced. I'm not gonna let him, I'm not gonna let him. Well, no, no, it's balanced. If one of us loses it, the other one doesn't fuel the fire. So the other one kind of calms down. And then if I like start losing my shit, then Jessica's like, you know, he hasn't had a nap and you know, poor kid or whatever. And then she called me down. So we actually did okay, dude. I was proud. I was proud. You know what I told Jessica? I said, this is a win. She's like, how do you mean? Cause we didn't fight. Yes. I said, cause we didn't kill each other. That's how I, when you're a parent, if the kid and all the other uncontrollable things in your life for a shit show and you guys don't kill each other, it's a win. No matter how shitty it went. Yes. If we didn't kill each other over that situation, then that's considered a win. And then I had, and then the day after I took all the teenagers to the mall, first of all, teenagers are like in a perpetual state of meh. That's just their attitude, bro. They're just like, they wake up in the morning and Jessica's like, let's play a board game with Deborah. You know, let them have fun. Cause they're just all sitting like how it's like, I'm like fucking dumb. It's like walking around and slapping everybody. So I'm like trying to have fun with them. I'm like, hey guys, let's go to the mall. I'll take you guys shopping. I think they're gonna be excited. I'll buy you guys stuff. No, nobody's excited. It's like a bribe. Everybody's just like, the whole time. Hey, you guys want to go in that store? I don't know if I want to go in that store. I'm like, wow, you guys, you guys need to wake up. Do you think, okay, is that a teenage thing or do you think that's like the generation now? Just is it? Both. Yeah, it's both. It's both, dude. I see Ethan kind of falling into that right now. Yeah, I'm just like, we're trying to hype something up and like get all excited, but he just, you just rather just sit there. Yeah. He doesn't even have his phone anymore as I took it away for the last like week and a half. And he's just like, just I'm just gonna sit here. That has to be like, that has to be like the teenagers passive aggressive way of basically telling you like I don't want to be there because I think I'm trying to remember when I was that age, like, you're just not impressed when you're a teenager. Like, you know, I think you're just so, you're not into anything your parents are into, even if your parents were into going something cool or even if you would like, like playing board games with my friends would be like fun. But if my parents wanted to play board games with me, I'd be me, right? So I think that's what it is. I think it's just like, you reach that age, you go from your kids, thinking you're the world and you're amazing and that, you know, you're super dad, I want to do everything with you. And then they transition to this, I don't want to do anything with you. And no matter, even if you are doing something cool, it's not cool because you're doing it, right? Yeah. What do you think? Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. So if it has to do anything with the parent, then yeah, it's not exciting. Is that cool? I want to go to movies with my friends. Okay, let's go to the movies. No. No, I don't want to go to the movies. You want to go to the movies. No, with you. Oh, the little shit. But yeah, so there was just, it was like, and then, you know, her niece and nephew, I go to pick them up because I flew to Vegas to pick them up. And they'll make comments like, oh, you know, famous Uncle Sal because of YouTube and all that stuff. Like, oh guys, you know, don't say that's so dumb. Bro, I got recognized four times in front of them. You did? Yeah. In Vegas, here in San Jose, Monterey, like different places, right? Like at the mall, like four separate times, right? So I'm like, oh cool, I'm going to be even cooler in front of them, right? No, I'm not. I'm not. Then my niece is like, she's like, you think you're so cool. Oh, that's so cool. Oh, wow, man. You're letting all that get to your head. Yes, exactly. I'm like, no, I'm not letting anything happen. It just happens. I told her, I'm like, you know, I'm cool. You're just saying that to me. She's like, no, I don't know. Downplaying. Yeah, dude, I'm like, oh, whatever, dude. That's funny. You were there for literally one night, right? Oh, you stayed in an awesome hotel. I did. Yeah, I did not. Bro, some change. I'm just pissed, dude. I was wondering if you were going to bring it up on the show. I am. My god damn wife put me in this shitty hotel. What'd you say? Last time, so the event was like, I had to go for a kid's gymnastic tournament and it was at Westgate. And so I was like, I just, I'm not staying here again. This is ridiculous. This is a dump, you know. And it was convenient because it's like, you can just walk to the events because, dude, the way they have these scenes like structured, there's a whole lot of hurry up and wait. And you're always late for that first thing for some reason. They like switch times. And, you know, you got to like anticipate almost being an hour before whatever they say. And they never give you whatever the whole itinerary is to like day of. And you're like, what, where are we going? You know, you just don't know. And so it's like, it's kind of like you need to be there. So you're just there all day. So you're just there. Yeah, it's like judo tournament. It's brutal. So I get that. And so Courtney's brain is still revolving around that. And so the closest, I'm like, we need to stay somewhere else because last time the there's one elevator and it was like, we couldn't get down. It was hitting every single floor. Everybody was leaving at the same time. And it was like a nightmare for me to sit. And we're just like trying to find the stairs. The stairs like you couldn't like get access to. And like, so anyways, we picked, she picked like the Sahara, which was like down the street. This is like side stepping. Like this is not nicer at all. This is a scummy casino. I'm sorry. I'm going to throw shade. It's not that great compared to the whole, like there's all the options of Vegas. Like I'd rather like take an hour cab or something, you know, now in Courtney's defense, because I know you can be you're not the type to complain or speak up sometimes. So is this partially your fault? Because you don't really, because here's the thing. Yeah, I understand this. And I like, but I've like, I'm, you know, me, I'm the one the group is very vocal about. Yeah. And Moody and all this bullshit. Right. So I've like, I've made it clear, like you put me in a hotel like this, I'll be fucking angry all weekend. So that's like non-negotiable for us. But I've communicated that. So are you bad about communicating that? You wait until I would say I'm, I'm not great, but I'm I. I would say that, like I put up with a lot, but also too, I'm clear about like sort of my my lines. Yeah. And so she, instead of like going on the like exceed my expectations, like hits right that like very like what I would tolerate. Yeah. Like just like we have a bathroom. There's air conditioning. And so like the we show up and of course, like this, the the hotel's elevator wasn't working on the tower we're supposed to stay in. So we had to like get a whole another room, a different side. And we get up there and it's literally like they're like, oh, it's an upgrade because of like space, you know? And so what it is is basically a suite for singles that want to bang, you know? It's got this couch. It's totally like some like couch. People are bedding people over and like looking out at the town. I'm like, this is not for kids to sleep on. You have to be like, there was there's one bed. I'm like, there's one bed in here. Like this isn't going to work. It's some like getting them anyways, dude. It was just funny that ironically we run into the same problems anyways. It's like, no, I flew in and I got to the hotel at eight thirty p.m. and then flew out the next day and I stayed at the encore. Yeah, I was jealous. Jerry or did you book? No, but you know, you know, a book. So Jerry book. Yeah. So I got funny story to tell you. I was in this room sleeping in the bed. I haven't sold this guy out yet. But Katrina, because Katrina and Jerry are always ones managing a lot of that and she and she's like, I don't know what you did to Sal. But now he's like you. I'm like, what? It's like, yeah, the last because he had to fly somewhere like the L.A. or something like that. And he didn't fly first class and he was like, hey, why didn't I fly? And there was no there was no first class with that. And he was talking about the hotel because I guess the one of the last times they made a mistake. Oh, come on, bro. That hotel was terrible. I know, I know. But you would. There was no restaurants in the past. They're like in the past machine. Sal would never say anything. Now he's like, hey, where's my first class? Where's my hotel? Well, it wasn't even that. I just didn't want to stay where I stayed that one time. Yeah, bro, they had. I don't remember where they had me stay in in L.A. I was doing a podcast circuit, but I get to it and I'm like, I can't even walk outside. This doesn't look good. What's going on? Remember when we went to Sacramento to see Mark Bell and we were like, it's the gunshots. What are you doing right? What are we doing right now? No way. So how did you how did your boys do that at the tournament? They did great. It was the first tournament of this whole season. So it's this is kind of like the, oh my God, like every weekend's occupied now kind of a deal. But it was the very first competition. And so there were some like kinks to get out and whatnot. But they both had like one really stellar event that they they crushed and meddled in. So I was happy to see that. They're so good. Did you watch the video? He posted. No, I didn't see it. Dude, they're so good. It's like, I feel like just the other day we were talking on this podcast about him getting them involved in gymnastics. And now they're like. Well, they obviously they have athletic parents plus they're young, you know, so you have all that together. Like kids can. I just didn't think they could pick it up that fast to that level. Well, they obviously can aesthetically got some talent. But then you're a kid. It's like you're just when you're that age, the neuroplasticity. So do they go outside and like are on the trampoline and practicing? Like, are they like they're not at practice? Are they doing it also? And actually I brought that up with them because that was their weakest event because of all the weather we've had here and how they haven't been outside just like doing their normal thing. Like they they I wouldn't even have to like fight them as much about being on their electronics or being inside at all. They would just go out there and like go start jumping and doing their routines on the trampoline. And it was almost like I, you know, that was the one they always crushed. And so that was when they did worse in. And so I'm pretty much attributed it to the fact that these haven't been out there because of weather doing it. But yeah, so yeah, they've they've put a lot of work in during the week. They go at least three to four times a week. And leading up to this first competition, they were I was like even up in Manteca, they're getting in extra reps and everything even on the weekend to like prepare for this. So it's cool. Their coach is really like militant. You know, he's like very good about like he wants to do well. And he's produced some like high level athletes as a result. Really? Yeah. So I'm still cool. I was going to bring up those something I noticed kind of sitting there. And I love people watching. Dude, Vegas is like one of my favorite places. Oh, it's the best place to watch. It do there's so many stories. But like just in the competition setting or sitting there and we're just killing time and kind of watching all these kids do their crazy flips and all this kind of stuff. And you notice this sort of interesting. So there's teams that it's not just the United States. I guess there's these other teams that are sponsored by some schools here from Armenia and from Russia. And so they are able to compete. And so you see like those international tournament. Yeah. So they came in and they're all like, you know, in their they're straight up like warm ups and and, you know, very like regimented with the way that they walk in the motherland. Yes, dude. And like real like, you know, rigid in the way that they flip in like they salute and they're just like, bruh, and then you'll see like some other. So there's this whole spectrum, right? Like of like super, super masculine and super, super feminine, you know, like within the boys setting and all this. And so you'll see it's always in the salute, you know, at the end, like you'll see like, yeah, I've never seen anything. So you could like that like salute is what you consider the landing. So it's after they're done, they have to kind of acknowledge that they're done to the judges. And oh, that's what that is. That's an acknowledgement that you're you're done with the move or whatever. Yeah, they do that. Yeah, I never knew what that was called. Did you know that? No, I had no idea. Yes. So they salute to him and so and that's and it varies with like one arm to like, is it open for interpretation? Like, I think they have they have like regulations of like what specifically they do that. But I'm not like again, like I'm just the dad that's sitting there. I don't know all the rules there either. I'm like still learning them. But yeah, they so they do all that. But yeah, man, they run a tight ship. You should see like just the form of some of these athletes from international like the Russian team, the Armenian team, a long, especially Russia's got. Whoa, dude, they're killing it. Yeah. Who was the coach? He coached the 94 Atlanta gold medal women's team. Was it Bella Corolli? Is that how the hell do you remember that? No. Oh, come on. He's one of the most famous gymnastics coach of all time. He coached Nadia Komenich. Do you guys know who she was? No. She was the one of the only perfect tens. And she was like 15 year old girl and she did a perfect ten routine. He also coached Louie Lou. What was her name? That girl she was on the Wheaties box, the American gymnast. Oh, yeah. What is retina? What's her last name? Doug, you should. Yeah, I know what you who you're talking about. She was like this. She was like a female. Lou Retton. What was it? Mary Lou Retton. So she was this female gymnast from America in the 80s who so in gymnastics is kind of fascinating. I'm not a huge, by the way. So this is just don't lie. Keep going. No, no, no. I think it's fascinating. I thought it was fascinating for a second. And I watched a couple of documentaries. That's it. But there's there were either like the small, young, you know, bodies or there were these really powerful strong. Mary Lou Retton was this American gymnast and she was like this little beast and powerful and she got gold medal. She was coached by him as well. And then there was Nadia Kominech, who looks very different. Maybe you could look up Nadia. She got a perfect 10 and she was like this really small. So are you saying these are the only two perfect 10 scores? I don't think Mary Lou Retton got. Look at her when she was a little kid. She was like this little girl and got a perfect 10. The 1976 Olympics. But Bella Corroli and his wife, I think I'm saying his name, that he ended up coaching the Americans after the fall of the or he left the Soviet Union. I want to say came over here and started coaching our athletes. And then the 94 Olympics. Did you guys remember that? You guys remember that in Atlanta? I don't. You don't. OK. This one of the most famous. Yeah. This is one of the most famous performances of all time. The female. Is it the same year as the Nancy Kerrigan? No, that was the next one. No, that's the next one. Yeah, that was a winter Olympic. Yeah, that's that's Bella Corroli right there. You guys don't recognize that guy. Yeah, I do recognize that guy. So he was like super him and his wife were super tough, but also just super loving. Everybody loved them. Yeah. He the 94 Olympics. Didn't he carry her off or something? Bro, you guys, you guys need to watch the performance of the 94 Olympics. He heard herself. The American team was in the running for first place. They were second place. One of our athletes runs out. It does her routine. I don't remember what it was. I think it was the what's the one with they bounce off the horse and then they fly in the air. Oh, yeah. Pummel horse. No, that's that's. It's like a double mini, but it's off the palm. Yeah. No, like springboard and they do the big thing or whatever. Anyway, one of our girls, I'm not the one with the kids in it. They do three events. I know the three events. I look at Justin like, tell me what it is. Come on, bro. A little bit of help here. It's all the jumpy twist. The jumpy make. Oh, I always look forward to the YouTube comments when we talk about something that we're going to stand your wheelhouse. Anyway, heaven forbid, we talk about this week. You gotta listen to dad's talk about the most. This is the first and only time I ever got emotional watching an athletic event ever. If you watch this, I promise you will. Our team is in second place. We need it. I don't remember what a score was that we needed. Our girl goes up. I forgot her name. She was this cute little, little voice, little kid or whatever. Hurts her knee. She goes and does it anyway. Lands that landing sticks it with one leg. Put one leg up like this and bounces on one leg. Okay, I think I remember and we won. I get the chills thinking about it. I remember watching as a kid and I got like teared up. What documentary did you watch? Do you remember which one it was? It was on Bella Corolli. It was like, I don't remember what it was. It was on him? It was on him and his. There's like criticisms because of the way he coached. I guess he was super hardcore, but his athletes. They loved him though, yeah. Who was the girl that stuck stuck it? That stuck that landing in the 94. I don't remember her name, but it was the. It was one of the greatest things that ever. Terry Strug. You guys, if you ever see that shit. You have to rewatch it. Yeah, these names are, but gymnastics highly competitive, dude. It's crazy how competitive it is. And you ever seen those, those athletes when they stop and they, they retire. They all of a sudden go through puberty. You ever noticed that you ever hear about that? No. So they'll, because they train so hard at that level, they're training for hours and hours and hours a day and they're tiny. They'll stay small and then they'll stop. And then like a year or two later, they, their bodies, I guess are allowed to grow because they stopped training so much. And they look very different. So it stops them from even going through puberty. If you train your ass off as a kid, like insane, intense, you will delay puberty. You stay lean, you'll delay puberty for sure. I didn't know that was a. You don't have enough body fat on your body? It's very intensive training. Is it common? It will girls. Well, obviously. Is that, is it common? Is it common with them though? Is it like something? Check it out. That's, I didn't even know that was like, I mean, are you sharing like one anomaly story I mean, it's common at the highest levels where these kids who obviously are genetically gifted obviously are driven cause you can't get a kid to train that much. And that's, they absolutely love it. And they're driven as well. And they just, they train so many hours, so crazy. And their children, they're 13, 14, 15, 16. And I mean, if you're like 19, you're, you're, you're getting old now at that level with, especially with the girls. Wow, interesting. Yeah. It's pretty, it's pretty wild. The picture of them like, you know, they win a gold and then two years later, like, oh, they, they became a mom and they look like a woman now or whatever. What does that say there? This says gymnastics delays puberty. So growth for all velocity of the trunk accelerated later in the gymnast than in control subjects despite continuing gymnastic. You know what's stupid about a study like that? Is that people are going to read that and think gymnastics does that? No. It's not gymnastics. It's the, the amount of training that they do is what'll do it. I mean, that you could delay puberty with any kind of workout if you just train the shit out of a kid, you know, for a long time or whatever. Yeah, you go in excess. Yeah, it's a lot. Wow. Anyway, I'm going to change gears here. We'll talk about tech for a second. What do you guys think of that new, that new VR game, the PS5? So you found, you found a new horror game that looks interesting. Dude, the tech is going to get crazy with video games. So there's a game on PS5 VR. I remember the name of it. Maybe, I don't know, Doug could find it or Andrew. But you're in VR headset. It's a horror game. So monsters and shit. But it tracks your eyes. Yeah, and the blinking. When you blink, things will move. So that when you open your eyes again, they're closer or about to kill you. Or you'll look to the left and then something will come out of the side. A horror trick, like you watch in a movie where all of a sudden, like, you'll see something in the distance. And then you kind of like are distracted at something else. And then all of a sudden, now they're like right in the forefront. Yes, yes. Like they can track that based off of you blinking. What, what? Switchback is the name of this. Switchback. So this room, this actually tracks your pupil, your eyes, knows where you're looking. And the game will modify itself based off of where you're looking if you blink. Wait until you actually like fill out like a questionnaire. So it like learns about you and then it can start to tailor your fears to it. Like, say you have a clown fear or you have like a drowning fear. No, I'm serious, dude. That's, it's not, we're not far from that happening. Like for it to be able to. Exposure therapy. Yeah, imagine how crazy it's going to be. I don't even think, I think it's going to be even further than that. I think it's going to be able to pick up on your body cues and know what is making you more scared. What's making your heart rate go up? Make, what's making you sweat more? It stumbles down on that. Yes, dude. More, more, more, you know what I mean? It knows how hard to push you. That's going to be crazy. That's a trip. I know. But for it to even know like where you're looking and all of a sudden something pops up, like it's messed up. Yeah, so I watched the trailer on it and there's this like room with mannequins and they look all creepy. And then every time you blink and open your eyes, the mannequins are closer to you. Yeah. And like looking menacing and reaching at you. Yeah. So like, you imagine kids playing this like trying to keep their eyes open. While they're taking off their eyes they're all bloodshot like, I can't sleep tight, dad. I can't do this anymore. Honestly, I don't play that game. You know what's funny? I actually, so I have the Resident Evil for Oculus and I like it and it scares the shit out of me. So which is interesting. I don't like a scary movie. I don't want to. And you have like some control, I think of maybe that. Maybe also the mindset going into it, right? I've talked before about when I watch a movie, it's like I want to detach and relax. It's it's very therapeutic for me. And when I watch a scary movie, I feel anxiety and intense. When I when I play a video game, it reminds me of like choosing to get on a roller coaster ride. Or like, so I'm I'm in for the fact that I want to be kind of intense and I want to be stressed out a bit. So I don't mind the the scary game as much as I do. I thought that was really funny because I would have thought I wouldn't have liked. I know you always talking about that one. Yeah. Was it Resident Evil? Yeah, boy. I mean, I remember the first when I first got the Oculus that was one of the games I bought because I heard good reviews on it. And it was like, I was, you know, I max went down to sleep that night. And I like I went into another room, snuck out of the room and it's like 10 o'clock at night. I'm by myself in my family room and decided to play it. I had to stop because it scared the shit out of me. It was it was just a little eerie. You don't say it was late at night. I was all by myself in there and I was playing into that game. I mean, they do such a the the graphics on it. And the way the the speakers are, you know, it has like that kind of surround sound effect. So like you'll hear like like it sounds like it's behind you. Yeah. There's like a zombie coming. You can hear it and it sounds like it's behind you. And then you spin around and then here it's coming right towards you. And so it's it's pretty wild. What they what they can do. Imagine you put the VR and you're like, I don't want to play anymore. You take it off. You're still in it. Anyway, I got something for you, Adam. What's that? Because you know how you have like you always talk about how sensitive your feelings aren't. No, I'm kidding. Your sense of smell. Yes, yes. OK, I just read a study that shows that people with a more sensitive sense of smell. Yeah, also tend to have better directional skills or have better spatial skills. Interesting. Isn't that interesting? So I guess the part of the brain that processes smell also is connected to sense of direction. Now, I don't have a bad sense of smell. What about producing smell? It's it's stupid, bro. Anyways, so anyway, I thought that was interesting because I know you always you can smell something before anybody else usually. Yeah, I have and I've always attributed that to be my allergies because I'm so sensitive because my allergies that it also the the positive is that I pick up on all kinds of rest. I don't know if that's a positive thing, actually, or not. I guess if it makes me have better direction. Now, you and I off air have talked about there was a time when I actually, you know, my my memory, my sense of direction was something that I prided myself on. Like I was really good. Like I go somewhere one time. I know how to get there. Right. I've lost that skill over the last few decades with the introduction of navigation. Yeah. Once I started to use that, it became something I became so dependent on that a skill that I once would have bragged about I no longer had anymore. And so I wonder if naturally I would have had that and continued that on. I bet you still would. A lot of people lost a lot of skills because we've outsourced to tech like like nobody knows phone numbers anymore. It's an easy example. I don't know anybody's I don't know your guys. If I talk to you guys all the time I don't know anybody's phone number in this room. I know my mom's and dad's phone. Does that ever scare you guys? Like, because of where we're going with like tech and the ability for AI and things. I mean, sure. But then don't you think that your dad, your dad probably said that about you. And it's like, you've been able to survive just fine. You guys know how to start a fire without matches? No. Yeah. I know, but okay. So you're a Boy Scout? No, I wasn't a Boy Scout, but I did a lot of outdoor. You were a Boy Scout? I don't know that. Yeah, yeah. And they didn't teach you how to do that? I did a lot of it. But could I do it right now? They give you a little, they give you the little flint thing. We didn't do, we didn't have to do with a stick. Okay. They gave you a little. You do with a stick? I've done it with a stick and then the rubbing technique and yeah, all that stuff. Yeah, what you like, you carve out, you whittle out another stick and you create that friction when you have to have enough air so it like is able to then, you know, heat it up properly and you put a little. Well, I mean, my point is we just started we don't know how to do a lot of stuff. Well, and my point is will you ever? So who cares? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I guess. Will there ever be a time in this society where you would need to use Well, you know what skills. Two sticks to start a fire. Okay, so what skills are we going to lose then? Because here's what I noticed with this weekend with the teenage kids is that they lost, they're losing their sense of skill for socialization. Like when we were teenagers, if you didn't go out and try to talk to people and try to engage, you didn't do anything. There was nothing to do. Now, because there's so many ways that they could, you know, I guess entertain themselves, distract themselves or connect without having to talk to somebody. I almost feel like they lost that skill. Like you want to meet a girl now, you do it through your phone. So that, so that's all we had to approach somebody. So that's all very true. So then the next question is, are we evolving though to a time where that skill is not going to be as necessary? Well, I mean, obviously it's not as necessary because they're still meeting each other. They're just not doing it in that way. It is weird though. It is weird when you're around a bunch of, you know, teenage kids and they don't know each other and you see how they're like weird about it. You're like, okay. I just, I guess I'm always- I haven't seen that actually. So you're saying like, so when your kids were- Get a bunch of teenage kids together who don't know each other already. Yeah, yeah. And then just watch how they interact. Yeah. And you'll see it's different. It's different. Yeah, I don't know. Like I get the point and that's kind of like what's always been the point of like, you know, wherever we're at is, you know, you're going to be, you're going to be a product of whatever like technology is available. And so we're going to be using it. But I always want to kind of at least be able to balance that with some knowledge of like if I'm in a crash or if I'm in like, you know, in a situation where I'm like, I come into a dire situation where I need to create shelter. I need to be self-sustainable at least until somebody can confine me or whatever. Like I want to pass it along to my kids so that they know that like if in a situation, if they're in the park or they're like with friends or they say to go camping or they try to do whatever, like they can at least know that like, okay, this is where you're going to get drinking water and this is where it's safe and this is where you're dysentery, you know, if you choose to go in this direction or- Just some basic things that they know. But we're more dependent than just knowledge because like we've created systems like food supply, water supply, waste removal that are organized, require, we don't think about this, but they require a lot of work and a lot of organization to maintain. So you can have right now, we're in a city, we're in a big city, right? We live in San Jose, so a million people plus. If, let's say there was a sort of solar flare, boom, all power out for a month, everybody could know how to survive but we'd still lots of death because we wouldn't be able to support ourselves because the way we support ourselves are through all these complicated systems. So like what a million people are going to hunt in San Jose, what are we going to hunt? Go up in the hills, hunt all the turkeys, like that'll be gone in two days. There's a lot of turkeys, but yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's not going to work. So I mean, I see your point Adam, it's like, that's just evolution I guess. Yeah, I know, I feel like that every generation feels that way about the generation coming up too. I mean, if you go back to your great-grandfather, he probably said it about your dad and your dad now says it about you, you're now saying it about your teenage boy and it's like, you know. Yeah, like nobody fixes their car anymore. Well, walking at some point will be, yeah, dinosaur, you know? I mean, that's going to be archaic for people like, why aren't you just hovering around? Why are you leaving your room? Yeah, why are you even? It's so weird. Just teleport your brain. I don't know. That's the part that I think scares me is that we are normalizing something like being plugged into this like VR goggles and just sitting in your room and that is considered your socialization. I think that, even if that's okay and that we end up evolving to that, that's just sad to me. It's a slow drip. It's like, is that really what we're made to do? Like, I feel like, I don't know. At some point, like you gotta evaluate and assess like with the quality of, and the purpose of what we're doing. Well, the, I had this discussion. That's a much deeper question. Yeah, it is. Well, I had a discussion with Jessica on this. Can you do our Paleo Valley commercial first? I wanna hear what you have to say. Yeah, no, no, I'll get there. Actually, let's go ahead and go there because I'm getting still a ton of emails about the chocolate bone broth protein. Oh, I've actually seen a lot of it. I did not oversell it. Yeah, I see a lot of it. I actually see tons of emails where people are like, I thought you oversold it. I tried it. Definitely the best tasting protein I've ever had. No, I've actually seen it. I've been meaning to tell you that. I've seen quite a few people tag Mind Pump in the post of the chocolate bone broth now. It's the best tasting. By far, I've never tasted a protein. But literally, it's a treat. It's not protein. Do you think because the bone broth in itself is kind of flavorless and then adding flavor to it is... Correct. Yeah, if you just had pure bone broth, it would taste almost like nothing. So it's really easy to make, taste really good. And then because of its texture, if you add it with milk, it'll give you kind of a nice mouthfeel. So that's gotta be a part of it. Anyway, back to the conversation. I was talking with Jessica about this. And if you look at the statistics with depression and anxiety, like teen girl suicides are at record levels right now. And I think a lot of it has to do with the kids might just be too safe. And what I mean by that is they don't take any risks. And... I would agree with that. And there's a lot of... There's a lot kids and adults get out of taking risks, failing, trying, succeeding. And it's hard and it sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as doing nothing, right? So like to give an example, if you put yourself out there to get into relationships with people, you're going to get your heart broken. Anybody who's ever had the heart broken knows that that's a terrible feeling, right? Or you could just never get in a relationship. And be like, I'm never talking to anybody I never want to get my heart broken, but that's worse. So I think that might be part of it. I think part of it is that these kids are, they don't put themselves out there. They risk averse. They don't risk things. They don't do anything that's kind of scary, dangerous, you know, to them that they're just blah. And they're trying to supplement or should I say, medicate that with like video games and social media. And it's making them just feel empty. Now, how do you personally reconcile that considering that you probably would be the dad who's nervous about his kid climbing on rocks or doing anything dangerous like that? It doesn't have to be dangerous, like in the literal sense, although that too, I mean like scary, like approaching people, going to a party, you know, go talk to someone, go be social, having an opinion that's controversial. Yeah, like that's what I mean. Are they not, are they not one of themself though? I mean, the same courage it takes to climb that tree up, you know, 50 feet when you could potentially die. I mean, if anything, that's even more scary. So then you going over to talk to a girl for the first time, it's like, I'm not gonna die. I climbed a tree, you know, that was 50 feet in the air and that didn't kill me. Well, what I mean by that, yes. I should be able to have the courage to go do this. Yeah, yeah, I think that they all contribute. What I mean by that is like not wearing your seatbelt like or drunk driving. I don't necessarily think that that's gonna give you like sense of meaning and purpose. I mean just the scary stuff that they would consider risky and scary that they're deciding not to do. Like you got these boys at home who have video games and pornography. So they don't have the drive to go out and get rejected. No, no, what I mean by you reconcilers, like other thing, and I'm just asking like, do you look back because you have teenagers now and do you wish that there were areas that you challenged your son and daughter in to take more risk that whether it be, and I'm using the physical one because I know that you tend to be that way more like cause you are in yourself that way. So I use that as an example, it doesn't necessarily, you're right, have to be that. Like when you process that and you go, oh yeah, that's definitely right. Like man, I wish, you know, in these situations I would have made my son do this or I wish I would have taken the kids to go do that. Like do you think that? Yeah, I mean hindsight there's a lot of things I wish I did. Right, right. But the other part of it is like there was no shortage of, okay, when we were kids, if you guys got grounded, it was stay home. You got to stay at home. And you were like, there's nothing to do here. You have a teenage kid now. Getting them to leave the house is hard. Where am I going to go, dad? What am I going to do? Who am I going to talk to? My friends are online. Like where am I going to go to the mall? Go walk around. Oh, I don't want to do it. So it's just weird. It's like as a parent, you have to manage it all, which then kind of takes away from it, right? Cause now you're the one making it happen. Not them. It's a really weird interesting time with all that. Like I was talking to my niece and nephew, same thing like, hey, where do you guys hang out, you know, with your friends? Oh, we don't really, I don't really see my friends. Like really? What do you mean you don't see them? Well, we, you know, see each other online, but we don't really don't go over their house. I'm like, oh, you know, and it's like my son's going to some parties now, which is cool. He's 17, but he's 17. When I was doing that, when I was, you know, 14, 13, because there was nothing else to do. You had no other choices. So I don't know. Maybe hindsight would have been to, I don't know, not have wifi. I don't know. This is where, this is where I think, Katrina and I were talking about the school that Max is in currently right now. He loves it. I really like it. It's very academically driven, but there's another school who he's, we really wanted to get him in and we couldn't get him in until I think August is when he's gonna be able to get in that school. And I'm like, God damn, I'm gonna have to transfer my son to three different schools in the short amount of time he's been like, I'm really like nervous about doing that. Like I don't want to do that to him, right? And I know that's my own shit because I bounce around to schools. And so that's a bit of myself, in my shit that I have from childhood. Have you seen the studies on that by the way? What? Kids who change a lot of schools. No. There's pluses and minuses. So I, and I know that, right? So there's, it's weird. Like I have, so I have, I get both of them. I have both of those pluses and minuses. Yeah, like you could probably make friends real easily because right. Yeah, they say that that. And that was one of the- That skill, yeah. When we, that's what, when people ask me, they challenge me to go far enough back. Like the skills that have made you successful today, like where do they, where are they rooted in? I definitely attribute something that I actually was fearful of and hated as a kid. Right. I hated my parents moving me from a school to school or what I thought, or moving. But then when I look back and actually reflect on it, I remember why I hated it. I hated it because here I am, new school. Nobody knows me. Nobody's playing with me. Nobody's talking to me. You don't reinvent yourself over again. And so I would, I would have to, you know, go out in uncomfortable situations and start conversations and, you know, step in and say, hey, I wanna play or hey, and like that forced me to do that. Well, doing that enough times built that skill set for me as an adult. So yeah, I get it. But my point of bringing this one up is the school that I really want him in that he's not in now and why I'm challenged on Katrina. I was like, maybe we wait a few years and then we move him over there because I really want him in that school and he's loving the school right now. And it's so academically driven. And I love what they're teaching him right now. But what this school that he's in right now doesn't have that the other school has is sports. And that's so important to me for the point you're bringing up right now because I think- That's a big one. Like if you were, if you're, if you get a kid into sports really early and they like it, they really love the sport. You're born right there. That's your default right there, right? Like, oh, yeah, nothing to do. Dude, go grab the basketball or I grab it with them. Let's go play. Let's go throw the ball around. So I had the same conversation with Courtney recently about that because it's like, what else are they gonna do? And so your point is like, you know, they're gonna be naturally just drawn in and then, you know, try to connect with their friends virtually now. Like that's a lot easier. But to have that structure of like, I have to go every day after school. I got to do this practice. I'm around kids. So we're naturally just having conversations, interacting and all that. It's like, it's a whole another educational piece to do that process. I feel like sports of all, there's plenty of research to support the benefits of- Yeah, you know what's funny about what you guys are saying? People attribute all the physical benefits to sports as the benefits. The physical benefits are the smallest- Very much the smallest. That's the smallest bit of benefit you get from- Hell no. Learning to work with others, leadership, following, being able to work hard, overcome adversity. I mean- Learning how to lose, learning how to win. Yeah. I mean, God, there's so, there's, I mean, do you guys think, and it'd be interesting to see what kind of stuff is out there research-wise now? I mean, sports have always been important. And we've seen plenty of studies to support that and research around that. I would argue that it's more important today than it's ever been. I agree. Because of what you're saying. Like, man, I can only imagine being in your situation where you have, you have a very intelligent kids that are like 4-0 students that are really good at their, so you can't like default like, oh, and you need to go do this until you get your grades up. They're already doing that hell of good. So it's kind of like, and then they love to play video games and they love to be online. Like, how do you as a dad be like, no, that's where their friends are all at. So the only, I think the only weapon you have is hope that you did a good job of getting them into these sports so that when those times come and you're like, you know, kicking them outside, they go pick up the ball. The other one is getting a job. I think a lot of kids. Oh yeah, or working. A lot of kids don't work. That would be another one. It's like getting them, teaching them entrepreneurship skills early. You got to get a job. Go get a job. Because you have to learn how to work with people. You got to learn, like especially a service industry, go get it. So that's one now that I'm looking at. Like, okay, now. Totally, it's against a great option. 100%. That's actually a real, especially for your son who's so intelligent, what a cool, and he's not like a hardcore sports kid. That's definitely the route I probably would default to. Oh yeah, no. Is like, encourage him to build a business right now. I would love that actually. No, I'm gonna make him go get a job. Go get a job, work at Target or some service business and go work. And then you end up having to socialize with people older than you, younger than you. The public, you got to learn how to do service. You got to learn how to all that stuff. You have a schedule. 100%. 100%. The two big ways, because you know kids don't get jobs anymore either. A lot of kids don't get jobs until they're 18. Oh, that's gone down? A lot. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh yeah, dude. Now, part of that is it skewed a little bit because are they not including kids that actually build a little bit of business online? Like, because that's now a popular thing, right? It's popular for a kid to build a social media following. Even if you include that. Yeah, kids don't work as much for two reasons. One is a lot more parents are like focused on school. And two, minimum wage keeps going up. The higher minimum wage goes up, the less likely companies are to hire kids. That's a fact. 100% fact. You're not going to pay a 15-year-old kid 12 bucks an hour because you're going to have a 20-year-old something who's going to want to get the job. That's a fact. So every time, by the way, the data is clear on this. Every time they raise minimum wage, the unemployment with teenagers goes down, down, down. So that's one of the number one arguments against minimum wage, right? Is that you don't allow the free market to compete and people to compete to get the job. Instead, you automatically cap out a bunch of people. Yeah, you make people with bad records, no work history, young people, you screw them out of potentially getting a job. I told you guys about the entrepreneur kind of hustle that Ethan's running at his school. He's already sparked a few competitors now slinging other products. No way, really? Yeah, so the thing about Prime, too, the drink, the Paul Brothers, whatever, have, I guess over in, I think it's in the UK, it's almost like triple the price because it costs so much to ship it out or whatever. Anyway, so the perception of it being expensive I think has made its way back to the kids of it's like a commodity. And so anyway, so this is a competitive thing to what Ethan's doing and then they're all trying to get market share and it's just funny to watch how this all kind of You know how effective those guys are? My kids asked me about Prime, so my niece and nephew. Prime, what do you know about that? It's literally just based off of their knowledge of their YouTube channel. It's crazy. Yeah, they don't even care about the products, it's just that it's a cool thing that they want to have. We got one more mention for Organify. I do want to say this about Organify, their green juice is clutch when I travel. Absolute clutch when I travel. If I don't have that, I get gut issues every single time. You should hook your son up with Organify since we get a bunch of free stuff and the margins will be killer for him. I gotta make sure he's a good salesman first. Yeah. He's sling all the crappy products first and then I'll hook him up. I'm with you though. Yeah, and then give him the microphone. This generation has been targeted with protein so they know the benefits of high protein. Because remember way back when we used to talk about how like the next, you called this out when we first started the show, that protein will be in everything. Remember then all of a sudden protein was in like, so that I feel like the generation now knows that high protein is a good thing. So selling protein shakes, out competing, and you got great margins since you're getting it for free from dad. I think you could crush out there. For sure, for sure. We'll set that up. We'll set that up on commission. So a first shout out today, I was, I don't know what he posted. He says he posts so much good stuff anyways, is Dr. Andy Galpin. So if you don't follow him on Instagram. Some of the best research on muscle building and strength. Yeah, he's over 100,000 followers now. Finally, he's, in my opinion, is deserved. He was just on the wealth of information. I think that's what really blew him up. I think he, Uberman, Uberman. Uberman. He's silent. Yeah, I think, you listened to that episode, didn't you listen to that episode? Yeah, yeah, he did a few of them. So I just listened to the latest one, Recovery, and it was fantastic. What's up everybody? You gotta check out the mobility wall. Look, if you love using a foam roller, but it's hard to get on the ground, it's hard to get in the right positions, you gotta check out the mobility wall. Literally goes in your doorway, and then you can do all those awesome foam rolling techniques to make yourself feel better, improve ranges of motion, help you get into new positions with your strength training. And it's much easier because you're standing. You're standing and you're using it in the doorway. It's a pretty cool mobility tool. Go check them out. Go to mobilitywall.com forward slash mine pump, then use the code bind pump at checkout for 20% off your order. All right, here comes the rest of the show. First question is from b-baller11CMS. How do I reverse out of excessive daily cardio? I lift six days a week and will continue to do so, but fell into a heavy cardio trap. I want to decrease, but I'm afraid my body will blow up if I don't reverse correctly. Please help. Oh, good question. Very common. There's a couple different ways that I used to do this, and it depends on the person. Sometimes I would literally just have them stop. I would just have them cut all cardio out. We would focus on strength training, maybe change the strength training program up. And then what would happen is it would just get stronger, build more muscle. So they didn't gain any body fat. They just excess calories would go to muscle, then the faster metabolism would offset any cardio calories that were burning before. The second option would be just to cut it slowly. So I'd go from six days a week to three days a week, down to two days a week, down to daily walking type of deal. And then with that you'll see, you should see strength gains in your workouts along the ride. You should start to see more of those gains. The goal would be to not gain body fat, but rather build muscle through this process. So obviously the depends answer is here, like on the experience level, the calorie intake, exactly what the programming looks like. But generic good advice I think right here is, I take whatever they were doing cardio, becomes walking now. And whenever program they're following, I switched to a different modality or like a different adaptation that we're focusing on. So this is why I love the way we've organized like the maps programs. So if somebody said to me like, oh, I follow something very similar to like maps aesthetic, let's say, then I might have them follow a program like maps strong, you know, something that is totally different than the maps aesthetic program and then replace their cardio where they're, you know, running or whatever it is that they're doing for their cardio with walking. And then scale back eventually even some of that walking if they're doing that much of it. So that is what it would look like. And if you do that, you're not losing that much as far as the calorie burn and hopefully any increasing calories goes to the new adaptation that we're sending. That was sort of the angle I was thinking in terms of like being able to, I guess restructure that in terms of making it more active recovery instead of like intensive cardio, just because these people are busy bodies and they need like constantly something to engage that need. And to do that, you can actually create a very good situation where you are weight training and you're gonna wanna put the importance on the weight training part, you know, to your earlier point and kind of refocus it on that. But the days in between especially in the off time to have a more restorative activity scheduled with that, I think we'll pair nicely with somebody that's very cardio focused. Yeah, so I'm gonna tip toe with what I'm about to say because this isn't gonna happen to everybody, but I've seen this happen enough times where it does happen. Where somebody is doing way too much, they're just cumulative stress, cumulative workouts, lots of cardio. I have them cut the cardio and they get leaner. They actually got leaner. I know that sounds like it doesn't make any sense. How is that possible when they were burning so many extra calories with the cardio? I think it was because their body was recovering and oftentimes it wasn't weight they lost, it was body fat. So they would end up building muscle and losing body fat at the same time. This tended to happen more often with my female clients who overdid everything. I remember the first time this happened, I had this aerobics instructor that worked for me in one of my gyms. She was lifting weights plus teaching classes plus doing those cardio and we had her cut out the cardio, add a little yoga and we were prepared for fat gain. She just got leaner and she didn't change her diet or anything. It was just that. So that can actually happen when the signal you're sending is to build muscle more than it is to just, you know. I would add to that and I don't know this person's exact routine but I would guess it probably looks more like a bodybuilder split failure type training routine if they're already kind of this intensity junkie and maps anabolic. So get rid of the cardio, replace it with walking, change your programming to maps anabolic, three days a week, full body, your other two days, trigger sessions and watch what happens. I bet you this person would see great results. Now what's interesting is I wonder if this person even does strength training because the question doesn't say that at all. It's just, oh no, they did. They say they lift six days a week. Yeah, they're lifting six days a week plus cardio. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I'd go maps anabolic and walk. Yep. I think your earlier speculation of them just like cutting volume would do wonders. Yep, just cut the cardio. That's what I'm saying. Well, that's why I would switch it. I mean, walking's gonna be good for them and they're six days a week of weight training down to three days. Yep. Full body. Watch. Better situation. But again, you know what's gonna be the hardest? The mental part. 100%. If you are... You're used to doing all that sweating, all that cardio. It's gonna freak you out. The thing they're gonna blow up is probably the opposite will happen. Yeah. And I wouldn't even... It's the same diet. Exactly. I wouldn't even adjust the diet. No. Eat the same way and just switch out all those, switch out everything we said. It's all about, people understand this. It's all about the signal that you send your body. And burning calories manually works for a very short period of time. After that, your body adapts. It learns how to burn less calories over the rest of the day to offset the calories you're burning while you're doing these workouts. This is, and they've done studies on this. It's very interesting. I'm not saying there's no health benefits to doing lots of activity. We're talking purely from a fat loss and body composition perspective here. But if you send the right signal and your body wants to build muscle and it's trying to get stronger and you're not burning those extra calories, your body just learns how to have a faster metabolism. It actually builds more muscle. So very interesting, but I've seen it happen many times. Next question is from Catherine Health Journey. If I'm severely struggling to complete a lift due to feeling out of breath, like when performing a Bulgarian split squat, is that a sign I need to start doing more cardio? You can. You could do more cardio. I like to do more, I guess what you would label as what conditioning type work. So like for me, hit cardio definitely would take care of this or pushing the sled would definitely take care of this. Or, okay, here's the easy one. You just keep practicing the split stand squat and just keep pushing it and you'll get more stamina in that particular exercise. But cardio will help with that as well. Yeah, I mean, 12 minutes of hit, I think is the perfect prescription for this specific thing. I think that you're gonna get what you need from that. Like a set of Bulgarian squats, even if you're doing 12 to 15 reps on each side, which is a lot for that, is not gonna take you longer than a couple of minutes. So if you build enough cardio endurance to withstand a 12 minute hit cardio session, you're gonna be able to do the Bulgarian split squat. So I think that, and I do like this as an indicator that, okay, I need it, because typically when I'm more concerned about body composition, cardio is always on the kind of the back burner of my mind until I see it affect my weight training. Once I see it, I was just doing cardio the other day first time. I made a big joke about it on my story and stuff like that. But that's kind of the signal for me is like, oh, I found myself a little winded doing something that I should be able to accomplish. Like, let me work on my cardio endurance a little bit. Yeah, I found the same when I was working out is like, you just find that you're struggling a bit more, I didn't know if it was my central nervous system, I didn't know if I was lacking strength. But for me, it was just the fatigue of it. And to get back into doing things with more cardiovascular output really did help to then contribute towards better performance in my workout. So it is something that I do pay attention to and know that I, every now and then I gotta cycle that in, otherwise I'm not gonna reap the benefit. Yeah, two, here's a couple of things that are great for the kind of stamina that I think this person's talking about. One is you could do like giant sets where you do like three exercises back to back. Some people will call that a circuit. You can call it a circuit, I call it a giant set. Call it a tricep. Or a tricep. Cut your rest in between. Yeah, no rest in between. So you do like one exercise to another exercise to another exercise. And there's a different ways to pair them. We've done other episodes talking about that. It's not just random exercises, there's programming that goes with it. So that's more of a like bodybuilding way. The other thing, and a lot of people don't talk a lot about this, but you jump rope. Jumping rope for 60 seconds. Like if you've never done it before, do 60 seconds of continual rope jumping. Like that builds some tremendous stamina. I mean, 10 minutes of jumping rope is like, boy, that's like an hour. It's a lifetime. Oh yeah, it's really a bit tough. And it's, I'll say start slow because it will, you'll feet in your calves and your Achilles will get sore. But rope jumping is a great form of building stamina. A great way to build stamina. Next question is from Guy Pettigrew. What's the best way to incorporate isometrics as a form of trigger sessions to enhance mind-muscle connection? Isometrics are, you know, I love seeing that more and more people are talking about them because when we started the podcast, nobody talked about isometrics. Justin would bring it up. Nobody talked about it. He was talking to a wall. Yes. And then that got me interested and I would start reading the research back then and I remember, you know, seeing all the research and it sparked my interest as well. So it's pretty phenomenal. I like isometrics to movement-based, not necessarily muscle-based. You can use a stick or a PVC pipe for some of the stuff but you get into a position, you hold that position and you drive the stick into the wall or into the floor or up into the cage and hold the position. It's quite intense. It's a bit exhausting. We have some YouTube videos on some of these, some movements. I think we have a YouTube video on the dumpy squat about mistaken and maybe a couple more that we can link to this. That's the way I like to do it. Bodybuilders of the past would just pose and flex which is not a joke either. Like for anybody who's ever competed in bodybuilding and knows getting on stage posing, it looks like they're not doing anything. You try to pose and flex every muscle at the same time and hold that position for 30 seconds and that's a form of isometrics. Well, and also too, I think that you could hold the most difficult portion of the exercise like say the very bottom of your push-up and just hold that for an extended amount of time and focus on that or like a pull-up or a chin-up and really kind of focus on the most difficult portion of that rep. And I think calisthenics work, type exercises work very well for this and to be able to hold it in the position that you struggle the most, I think that's another way to kind of approach it besides using a tool or something to kind of drive that. Yeah, I'm assuming this person is asking because they want to build more muscle. That's probably the main goal, but I'm with you, Sal. If I got somebody who wants to incorporate isometrics and it's on trigger days or they're off days of training, I would prefer my client focus more on mobility stuff. So like PrimePro would be a good example. The webinar that I did on this where you do a 90, 90s and isometric moves that are going to benefit your overall movement. And the reason why, and I know at first you may not think, oh, I want more of the pump. I want more of the muscle. I want to build more muscle. But if you work on these limiting factors like with your squat or your like combat stretch for ankle mobility, like let's say you just, you can't break 90 because you're limited because you're a range of motion in your ankles. While you're doing isometrics for like combat stretch and doing that on your off days is going to benefit the depth of your squat. That new found range of motion on your squat is going to benefit you muscle building. Yes, totally. So if my client was asking. I bet more people will get more benefit from doing what you're saying than any of the four. So I believe so too. So if a client asked me this for that reason, I would still push them in the direction of, okay, well let's address your range of motion that you lack in your shoulders or your scapula or your ankles or your hips. And let's do those isometric holds that we have in PrimePro to address those things because if I can get a greater range of motion out of your shoulders, a greater range of motion out of your squat, like those things will end up adding more muscle and also benefits you as far as like the way you feel too. Like if you had any chronic pain potentially bothering you or you just want to prevent chronic pain from happening in the future, like that I think is a better choice of utilizing it on as a trigger session. Next question is from a glimpse of me. Is semi-glutide a good tool if you're struggling to lose fat? The recent discussion on episode 2014 made it sound like it was. I thought using pharma medications was not a good thing. Okay, so let's be really clear here. First off, nothing will come close to replacing your changing your lifestyle. Diet, how you exercise, sleep, stress, those are gonna make the biggest impact on fat loss. Plus there are benefits that go above and beyond just fat loss, like the psychological benefits, the overall health benefits. Just nothing comes close. Now, semi-glutide is a peptide. It's I think it's a GLP-1 agonist. It's like this class of peptides that have been researched for diabetes or to improve insulin sensitivity. And studies show that they quite effectively induce weight loss. Now, in comparison to like the weight loss drugs of the past, semi-glutide and other GLP-1 receptor agonists like they blow them out of the water because the old medications for weight loss were stimulants and they had all these terrible side effects and stuff like that. So these are just better. They're much better. But this is not like someone says I'm struggling to lose fat. Well, let me look at your diet. Let me look at your training. Let me look at your lifestyle. Let me look at your sleep. Because I guarantee you, you won't struggle with fat loss if I can look at those things and adjust them in appropriate ways and adjust the way that you live your life. If you don't adjust anything and then you take something like semi-glutide to lose weight, you'll lose some weight but you're not gonna get the same kind of benefits. And it's not like you're gonna lose all the body fat. And then there's also some detriments. The most of the way, some of the way that it causes weight loss is by increasing, I guess you could say, insulin sensitivity kind of loosely but a lot of it's just from appetite suppression. So what do they find in the studies with semi-glutide? Well, when people who don't work out and don't change their diet, take semi-glutide, they lose weight but they also lose muscle because they eat less. They're not feeding their gains. Yeah, so it's not like you just take it and you get these like great results. Even though semi-glutide is muscle sparing, it has muscle sparing effects. If you don't eat enough protein and you're not sending a signal to build muscle and you just eat less, your body will try to accommodate and adapt by reducing muscle mass because what it's trying to do is it's trying to slow your metabolism down to match the new calories that you're taking in. So if you take semi-glutide, you gotta make sure you get adequate protein intake and you gotta make sure you lift weights. Otherwise, yeah, you'll lose weight but you'll lose muscle along with it in which case like who cares, right? Who cares if you lost weight that way? You know, this is an area that I always feel really challenged with this business and that one of the core values that we have is radical honesty, right? So I'm a big believer in sharing with our audience if there's stuff that we use, like I've been using hormone therapy for a very long time. So disclosing that and sharing that with our audience, I think is important to keep it transparent. The fact that all of us are extremely interested in peptides and experimenting and using them ourselves right now, we're gonna be honest about that. There's supplements that we've partnered with that we use that we love. But at the same time too, all those things do not come before working on your relationship with food, with exercise, your body image. Like there's so many things that I think that we built this business with the intent of helping people in that direction. And for the most part, I think we've done a pretty good job. And then we've come to this place where it's like, okay, well, there's other things that we all- It's a novelty bucket. There's other things that we utilize or we like or that we think we're interested in. But it's like, I don't ever wanna come across as like, this is the answer for people. And I wouldn't recommend it to most my clients until we get those other big rocks handled. And then it's like, okay, like you've checked all these boxes and you're curious about this peptide. I'm telling you openly that I'm using it and trying it. Like, why not? Then I'm not against it. But I always wanna be careful that we don't come off like we're pitching or selling. And I think the whole time we've been partnered up with supplement companies, I think we've always presented this. Like Whole Foods is always the first and foremost. But that doesn't mean that I don't grab a beef jerky stick every once in a while or grab a protein bar because I'm on the go. This isn't even a moral thing. It just doesn't come close to comparing. Well, that's what I'm saying. Because we know that those things aren't gonna even come close to the things that really matter when it comes to the results. And so it's first, check those boxes. You spend most of your time, your effort, your money. It's like arguing over the- It's new science. Like we don't know all of the details. It hasn't been around for that long yet. And we're still sifting through all of that. So it's exciting in terms of like what they're coming up with and the science surrounding it with peptides and how they're able to kind of like really target these parts of the body and their functions. But in terms of like what we always wanna lean on is the foundational blocks of how to get there. Yeah, look, okay. Even the ones that have a lot of science behind them in studies and stuff, look, here's the deal. It's like arguing over the air filter on a performance car. And we haven't even talked about like the engine. Okay? Like the engine of the car makes a big difference. Air filter will make a little bit of a difference, but it's not gonna come close to the engine. What the engine's gonna do. Look, even testosterone. Testosterone of all the peptides and hormones and whatever that you could use and take. Testosterone by far is the most powerful muscle builder. Nothing comes close. Growth hormone doesn't come close. No other hormones come close. No peptides or combination of peptides come close to testosterone. If you give a man with low testosterone, I'm not even talking about a normal testosterone man. A man with low testosterone who needs to take testosterone. You give him testosterone and he doesn't lift weights. He'll gain like five pounds of lean body mass. That's it. Could I get him to gain more than five pounds of lean body mass just through proper strength training and diet with low testosterone? Yes, I could just to give you an example, right? Now what happens when you are working out and you pay attention to your exercise and it's consistent and you got a good diet and you're paying attention to that and you sleep, you look at your sleep and your stress. So you lead a healthy lifestyle that's a priority to you and then you utilize these things to optimize hormones, you utilize peptides. Then it can be really fun. It can be really fun to see kind of what the next level looks like for you. But besides, you know, if you're not doing those things like you're wasting your time and it's expensive, I'm gonna be honest with you, semi-glutide is a GLP-1 receptor. It's the most popular one. Yeah, what does that run? What does that run? It costs like a thousand bucks a month. Is it up to, that's growth hormone price. No, yeah, something like that. So, I mean, it's gonna be expensive. The other peptides are a lot less and there's other peptides. There's like a whole bunch of peptides. Some of them are a lot less expensive. But it's like, okay, so let's say you spend, you know, 500 bucks a month on peptides to help yourself out. But you're not working out properly. You got crappy workout programming or you're inconsistent and your diet sucks away. What are you gonna notice? A little bit. You might get a little more energy. You might feel a little better. Where I could take you and do one thing. I could look at your sleep, fix your sleep and it'll be like life changing. Or you could have low vitamin D, supplement with vitamin D. You could go buy it at CVS for $5 and it'll be life changing, right? So, we gotta put these things in context. That being said, if you're somebody that's interested in this kind of stuff and you're checking the boxes and you're gonna be making sure that you work out consistently, your diet, all that stuff. Then hell yes. Then you do this kind of stuff and it'll be a lot of fun and it could be quite interesting what you could accomplish. I mean, look, I keep everything pretty consistent. So for me, it's been really fun because I know when something's doing something when it's not, because everything else is good. I keep everything in check, I'm very consistent. So I know if I add this, wow, I notice, my lifts went up by 10 pounds or I gained four pounds of lean body mass or my sleep is a little better. Like with testosterone for me, testosterone and peptides for me, now I went from low, when I got tested, it was really low. My total test was 230 something, which is even, like a general practitioner would have put me on testosterone. That's how low that was. When I went on testosterone and peptides, for me it turned into about 13, 14 pounds of lean body mass with everything else that I was doing. That's a lot, but I work out consistently, I eat, I focus on my sleep, I do all the things, right? So that's a pretty significant difference, but it's not like, it's not gonna take someone from, out of shape to Mr. Olympia or anything like that. So just to keep things in context, I think it's important. No, I agree. And if you're interested in something like this, go through a doctor because you can go online and there's a gray market of these research chemicals, they'll call them and you don't know, we interviewed a doctor on this, an expert, and he said, it's not that they don't have all of the, it's not that they'll give you 50% of the dose, that's not what you need to worry about, it's that they have all these broken peptides in there that we don't know how they're affecting your body, which is kind of scary. So go through a doctor, go through a pharmacy that has to follow regulations and get checked and stuff like that. And if you wanna talk to a doctor, go to mphormones.com, we have good ones that we connected with. Look, if you like the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com, check out some of our guides. We have free guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump, Sal. Today we're gonna teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the work. Yeah, it was for me, it was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.