 When you're trying to find a good trainer or coach the most important thing to look at is their experience Nothing will tell you more about how good the trainer is than that. Oh, you know You're gonna piss off a lot of people that value their four-year degree They spent getting there their kinesis degree or their sports medicine degree. Yeah, something like that. Yeah controversial, yeah, no, okay, so okay Well, I mean it is to a point because somebody who's gone through four years of schooling or more is gonna feel like wait a second How are you gonna say that that that is less valuable than some kid who has no education who's just getting experience? Well, so first off, I'm not saying that other Factor shouldn't be considered. So I think education is important as well, right? What I'm saying is if the the one most important factor is experienced. Yeah, okay So an experienced educated, you know coach or trainer is gonna be great But it's if you are looking at a educated coach who's got you know a degree a master's degree or whatever And you compare them to a trainer or coach who's got equal amount of time, but as experienced training People like you mm-hmm the experienced person is more likely This isn't a guarantee of course is crappy people on all sides But they're more likely to do a better job and that largely has to do with the fact that when you're coaching The most important aspect of what makes you successful is not necessarily the information that you know But rather how you apply and how you help the person through the process like for example when you talk about diet You know, I it's very easy to Google diet how to lose weight Macros what has proteins what has fat what's has carbs that kind of stuff But what's hard is to figure out how to modify behaviors how to be consistent how to develop a better relationship of food That comes from experience and the experience that you get from working with lots of different people is what teaches you that It doesn't come from learning kind of general, you know, okay Pattern recognition. Yes, I mean a lot of it is really paying attention to how you need to alter and adjust and be able to you know Appropriately apply a more successful plan, which isn't something you technically Are fluid with when you're learning just from books and in Isolated kind of environments where you know, it's it's in a laboratory setting where this is like how you know It is sort of laid out versus somebody that comes in with so many different variables You have to work through you're almost more of a detective at that point Well, the the science and knowledge is is very accessible to everybody now Which is very different than what it was just 20 years ago where you know, even your client could easily Google whatever it is that they're trying to find out as far as the answer But where the the experience part and you talk about this a lot is that that's where the wisdom comes in Right like how do you take that distill that down into something? That's practical and applicable to the client and then how to implement that into their lifestyle. That's just That's practice right something that you've you've had to try and probably fail at multiple times before you kind of figure it out A lot of it is what I feel like kind of what we talk about on the show. It's you know, it's Yes, the our education And everything that we've read over the last two or three decades right is is important I mean, we have to be able to have some some knowledge base But really it's the how and what we decide to communicate to the client I think that it makes it more effective as much as you're applying it is where all the questions come up for you to Then try to pursue more education To get more knowledge that you can then bring back in Versus like you know trying to learn everything and then not really knowing What's gonna be valuable? So let me ask you guys this then do you think that it's More or less important because all the information is more accessible today than it was again a couple decades ago Is it more or less important to have a coach today than it was two or three decades ago? Oh, I see what you're saying. I think it's always been important Well, that's obvious because of the profession's been around more or less. I don't know. That's a good question Because sometimes I think because you know why lots of information Okay, here's a fact now we have access to more information today than ever before and it's not even close If if I had a question about something when I was a kid I had to literally go to the library Yeah, and look it up and find a book and then go home and oops I have another question Gotta go back to the library. There was no where I could go like right now on my phone I have access to all of the recorded information of all of human history, right? potentially Have we seen a decrease in obesity? Have we seen an improvement in health? Have we seen more consistency with exercise? No, we've seen it go down. It's not an information problem. It's an application problem For example to lose weight you need to eat less calories than you burn Most people understand this or know this or at least have heard this Why aren't they doing it? It has nothing to do with the information has everything to do with the stuff that coaches Experience coaches bring to the table and then I'll ask you guys this you guys know a lot about Exercise and nutrition and science around training What percentage of all that information would you apply to the average client? Yeah, that one percent? you know, I'm not gonna take the average person and You know, there's always advanced training knowledge and hypertrophy and fat loss and sleep And I'm gonna take like one percent of it and apply it to the individual. It's just it's it's not it's important But the experience aspect is the most important thing you can almost make the case that there's More pathways for the average person today than there was two or three years ago Which means that it would probably be more necessary to have a guide today to help sift at least that's what I mean Because there's so there's there's so I mean even we see this even in With studies how often is like one study contradict another study? And there's so much information that's out there that it could probably become Overwhelming for the average person and easily led down the wrong path because they they think they know but they don't right? So you could almost make the case that it's needed. There's very compelling arguments out there for They'll they'll extract like one piece of science that they'll highlight and then you know make it very convincing that this is the only way you need to train and for You know nutritional pursuits like this is the only way you need to eat and you know have very good Evidence and support with their argument, but it's not the whole picture. Yeah, okay So it's no different than this right? It's no different than the business professor who's teaching at a you know esteemed university Who's been teaching business to students for a long time versus the business person who's opened and you know Businesses and failed and succeeded Yeah, who is gonna who's more likely to start a business and succeed and do those things right? It's gonna be the person with the experience. It's not the professor. Does that mean the professor has no value No, it doesn't it's they're very valuable But when you're picking a coach or a trainer it if you're when you're weighing things out Experience is the most important by far and look we we we train people for a long time We were considered among some of the most successful Trainers I guess in our area right here in the Bay area our circle in our circle. Yeah, that's how we kind of knew of each other There was like ten of us. Yeah, but But we know we did pretty well with three of the best five that we know. Yeah Like top three out of the top out of the four. No, but serious You know all joking aside So we did pretty well and we knew and we saw people trainers come and go and we hired Trainers to and well now when you hired a trainer What was more important for you to look at? Yeah, but do you so I actually Remember learning this lesson. So when I first did the same thing. I'm gonna say when I first got into management I actually went after the you know, I had I've had a PhD work for me I had I had plenty of people with their masters and of course lots of Bachelors and science and so I went after that like I would actually go down to the the call local college and actually Look for kids that just came out with their kineser Excuse me or their sports medicine degree, right and I tried to build a team around like the most educated trainers And really I saw it after that because I wasn't I didn't finish my kines degree And I thought man imagine if I could find a bunch of these trainers that are far smarter than I am in the field Like we're gonna be we're gonna be done it and what happened was it was difficult, dude It was really difficult to succeed with this this group of trainers that I had that were all really really smart because a lot of them Failed at the application process later on in my career and this was by the way, too I'm like skipping over years of kind of learning this lesson, you know over and over But eventually I came to the conclusion I would rather have somebody with no fitness knowledge that I could teach How to train clients the way that I have learned over years of practicing all this Over having somebody with a master's or even a PhD in the field like that's how much I would rather have a Trainer that I could teach that that part didn't but it took me Years of like oh, this maybe to be this smart guy or this smart girl I don't I don't care how You know whether you're super educated or not You're now the best trainers I've ever worked with were trained were people who trained for at least five years It would take five years for them to really get really good And you know here's how you know right you ask a trainer a question and If they have the answer right away, and they don't answer with it depends Then you know they don't have a lot of experience when you you know you're you know It's funny because like I remember we interviewed like Joe DeFranco excellent I'm one of the best trainers out there somebody we all looked up to back in the day And I remember he first came on the show and I would and we heard and we were interviewing him And he kept answering with it depends and I remember like oh, yeah, of course because he has a lot of experience working with a lot of different people Yeah, you know Brett Contreras would answer the same way it depends and that's what here It's oftentimes if you don't have the experience, but you have the the knowledge or the information Then the answer is you know, well, this is what the study show So here's the answer. Well, I've also found to that when I got a lot and by the way too, this is just my own experience I'm not saying this is the way it is for everybody But what I had found is a the trainers that were that had these had this education when they would come in and they're just Starting their profession. They have this education in the field But they have no experience in the the actual field and sometimes it would it would get in their way Yeah, their expectations were different were I just I should already be crushing Yeah, or I know better because this is what the science says and it's like well We're also dealing with behaviors too, right? So there's and then they don't relate to their Clients that are coming in right they talk down to them and they use a lot of anatomical terms and they you know Unfortunately, they lean hard on that instead of really trying to connect and pull their client in and find out, you know How to communicate in such a way to work to move their behaviors in a better direction, right? When we all start we're all insecure in a way, right? Like you do we what's new even for the educated trainer It's still a new profession So and their way of handling their insecurity a lot of time is to double and triple down on the education piece Well, I'm only saying that because this was like something I struggled through initially because I did come from, you know like from a college degree and Kinesiology and I had you know this understanding of How everything was gonna work out biomechanics, you know ergogenic aids I took all the courses all the different things and ran a lab, you know at school and so it was a very much a You know a science sort of an environment where everything was sort of, you know set up So it's gonna be played out so it's predictive But then getting into the gym setting you threw I threw everything out like it just did not work out now there is something though that Where if you don't have the education where you could really get yourself in trouble You guys remember a couple years ago. I brought up that girl Brittany Dawn. You remember her. Yeah. Yeah She was a fitness influencer. She's a fitness influencer But you know what you saw online programs, right? So she was that term so she was a fitness influencer and She had a pretty large following and she started selling online digital programs and diets that were you know quote-unquote custom And what they would end up happening was she she blew up as far as her And she was selling tons of these and it got to a place where she definitely was not making custom plans at all She was doing these cookie cutter type of diets So I brought her up a couple years ago because it's been made the news is a big deal, right? well After that she made this like hard like religious pivot, you know Then she began like, you know quoting Bible verses all the time and she kind of went that angle For her audience and they stayed away from like the nutrition obviously advice because she got blasted But guess what just happened which just came in the news just like a couple weeks ago What so the state of Texas is coming after her and suing her because she had people That like had eating disorders and stuff that she was giving these unbelievably low calorie diets and I Supposedly hurt a lot of people that were in this position and now the state of Texas is coming after and actually suing her That crazy that is insane and I feel like so that's an area where like in that's in school You're they're gonna they're gonna teach you like some of the foundational principles like legal principles that you got Well, two things hold on a second. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna defend something for a second because Yes, and some of the craziest shit. I've ever seen prescribed came from doctors and You know medical experts with my clients I had clients on 500 calorie a day shakes. No food Yeah prescribed by their doctor. So it's not always perfect now. Why does experience why is experience so good eventually you get found out eventually? This girl got found out like you can rip off so many people But if you're a coach or a trainer for ten years and you're successful You're probably doing a good job, right? Yeah, it's you're not gonna last ten years and because people are gonna find out I say oh this person's full of crap or look what they've done or what you might last a little while But it's not like the old not to mention that it in order for you to me I used to say the same thing too I like if I met somebody that had that kind of experience in our but the reason why I used to say it is because there's very little Money in our profession And if you've been doing it for two three four five years and you're not making very much money You normally bail. Yeah, very few people. Yeah make little to no money in this profession and stick around for ten years So if you stuck around for ten years many times you figured it out, right? Or you figured out enough to where you're still doing it. Otherwise, you'd be off doing something. I do find it funny That she went the religious route with promotion. And you know what I mean There's a lot of there's a lot of like similarities with the ability, you know Manipulating people through religion or manipulating through the fitness cult. It's very similar. Well, we saw this in that What was that call the documentary documentary you you turn us on to it was Courtney and I just finished it where they Combined like weight loss With being closer to God with the way down was that was it was cool? Yeah, the way down the way down. I gotta watch this It's you know, I haven't seen it. Oh, you didn't watch it now. What's it on? What platform is on? HBO on HBO. Yeah, it's on HBO. It's on HBO. Is that the one with the lady with the big hair? Yeah, it was somebody somebody in my DMs record, which I man, I love when when I get stuff like this, right? So I appreciate people know what we talk about what we're interested in somebody sent me over I had never heard of it. It didn't pop up. By the way, that's my my my critique of HBO I know I I always kind of crap on Netflix and say that HBO and Disney are gonna catch them and stuff like that But one thing that Netflix did really really well is their UI. I mean, they're there other recommendations Yeah, yeah, just the just the user interface is so user friendly I mean, it's the way they categorize it and it rotates through stuff. HBO is not good like that Like this is something that you know should be kind of recommended or even have been in my like sphere Yeah, it wasn't I had to actually like I couldn't even find it looking for it I had to go to the search put the whole title in and then I found so what now in this what they do They combine diet with religion. So yeah under that like protected tax, right? So basically it's like intuitive eating, but like they're praying in between right and they're like trying to was aggressive fasting Yeah, aggressive fasting, but making like so the spiritual side, which makes sense But like now they're like they're Programming it so it's literally part of the weight loss Program and the structure of it and so people would you know buy into this and they have all these services around it And then they give you all these rigid rules and you know, it just becomes this thing where it becomes a really rigid Form of you know the original doctrine. It's kind of brilliant. Okay. It's first of all It's well, you know, so it's not the first time they people have made diets based off of well It was it's the it's the one meal a day And you can eat as much as you want and then all the rest of times when you have the desire to eat You pray pray it away because that's that's that is the I mean I can see how that strategy Oh, no, it's brilliant. I mean, it's really brilliant people losing way Oh, and so it's like it's they buy into the thing and then she creates like this whole other version of what she views Well, no, I'm not gonna defend it But what I will say is psychologically speaking the most effective way to stick to an extreme diet is To make it a part of your belief system. Sure. For example, that's why it's brilliant what she did for example If you look at vegans, so that you know animal products whatsoever vegans who do it because they believe that any any Killing any animal or milking animal cruel is cruel like they're told that's the whole reason why they're vegans is because I believe that animals Should not be treated that way at all their consistency is so much better than vegans who do it for health reasons who say Oh, I want to be a vegan because I think it's I don't want to meet and they go off all the time And it's because it's a belief system the people who's like no it's hurt animals Even if they're nutrient deficient they show up a nutrient deficiencies even if a cause of problem They'll stick to it because that's a belief system. Yeah, so you tie it to religion and yeah, you're you're gonna be and I Believe both, you know, Brittany Dawn and this girl. We're talking right now I believe that it starts from a good place. I really do like I mean, I just that's I believe I want to believe Yeah, but then it becomes too much about themselves. Yeah, then that's where the narcissism kicks in Narcissism takes over and whatever they were promoting is completely distorted by yeah own ideas that come through Yeah, I think it starts off as a good because think about this I mean We haven't I don't think I've ever told a client to go pray when these times But I have told them about trying to becoming present in the moment realizing that this is a craving That you're battling right now and be aware of the like where your mental state is And prayers I mean you're being present right I mean, it's it's a form of meditation in a sense becoming as present as you possibly can so You know, it's it's pretty good advice to a point, right? But I think and I think that's why I had so much success for the congregation But then I think that the narcissism takes over of like because then she gets celebrated She starts to get celebrated as oh being so amazing and look at all these people that I'm losing all this weight And change their life and start my own church, you know, and then it becomes that and then you get all these people behind you I thought you you have to watch it. Yeah, it's really fast. Why do I have to watch because you'll like it I mean, it's a it's a crazy intriguing story. It's got a there is a major twist to it I just remember the girl gets darker and darker. Yeah, she's like she looks like the like you know How you watch the righteous gents gemstones and they're a parody of the yeah Yeah, she's very much in that vein. Yeah, like the big hair and she's very much I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the part of righteous gemstones was based off of some of her character and and yeah, yeah They took that and like the televangelists and they sort of just hold it all together. Oh, man Hey, if you enjoyed that clip you can find the full episode here or you can find other clips over here and be sure to subscribe