 Well, hey there and welcome. It's another day, another nonprofit show, but today is special. This is a milestone episode, our 1,000th episode. So we are celebrating the show today, talking about where did the time fly to? And of course we have Julia Patrick, Julia C. Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Thank you to you Julia. This has been my daily staple and many people's daily staple as we tune into the nonprofit show. And when we started in March of 2020, it was very much live and also recorded, but we had a lot of people joining us for that live discussion. And now, four years later, we're seeing a lot of people watching the recording and really coming into the conversations at any time, day or night. I'm Jarrett Ransom, nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group, honored to be alongside on this journey with Julia. Again, day in and day out since March of 2020, what was intended to be a two-week endeavor. Here we are celebrating again, this just monumentous milestone. So Julia, thank you for the invitation and for going along this really fun journey together. It's been really interesting. And I think you are one of the great minds of the nonprofit sector. And so every day was something new and different. And I think it's important to recognize that neither of us had a roadmap. It wasn't like we said, oh, we're gonna do this like they do. And we're gonna do something similar or we're gonna mimic them. There was no roadmap. I mean, the technology was different and new. So really quite, when I think back, Jarrett, I'm really proud of us that we kept going and kept trying to figure out better ways to do it. And then I kind of felt compelled to keep going because we started getting feedback and people would be, I was on a plane flying to London and somebody came up to me and said something. And I was like, wow, I have to like, you know, I have to shape up. Right? Yeah. It's been a lot of fun. And I also wanna acknowledge all of you watching and listening around the globe because you have been a huge piece, integral piece of this journey and the success as well. So we do also wanna give a shout out of gratitude to our current sponsors. Many of them have been with us on this journey from the very beginning. So thank you to Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, non-profit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University, 180 management group, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, JMT consulting, non-profit nerd as well as non-profit tech talk. Again, thank you to these companies that pour into these conversations because they're really pouring into all of you and all of your missions. I like to say their mission is your mission because they want to help you do more good in and around your community. And hey, if you missed any of the previous episodes, 999 of them, go ahead and scan the QR code, download that app and you can also pull us up on your streaming broadcast and your podcast channel. So wherever you like to listen, consume your entertainment, we are also there. So have a listen, have a watch, whatever feels good for you. We're still hearing Julia more and more. People will go on to watch, someone they know, a friend of theirs that was on as a guest and then low and behold, they stay on several hours later listening to the next episode and the next and the next and the next. It's true, it's kind of funny because I think what happens is you're like, oh yeah, that was interesting or the cadence and then just like before you know it, you're watching more and more and then the archive is so extensive and I really wanna give a shout out to our executive producer, Kevin Pace because he does Yeoman's work going in every single episode and then figuring out where it's best gonna be searched and teeing it up so that it's two in the morning and you have a board crisis or you have an accounting question, you can search the archives and find very specific episodes. So it is quite an endeavor to track and manage this many moving parts especially after a thousand episodes. You know, Jared, I thought today that the two of us could spend some time kind of reflecting if you will kind of like the lessons learned and some of them they might be the same, some of them we might disagree, whatever but are you ready to kind of go on that journey with me? Let's do it. I've been waiting four years for this. Oh my God, well then you are much more of a future thinker than I am, my friend. So I was like, God, help me if I can get through two weeks. 1,000th episode lesson learned, biggest lesson learned. What does that look like for you, Jared? For me, it's consistency and I feel like we've heard this in other industries and other parts of our life but the biggest lesson I've learned is the power of consistency. Here we are in our 1,000th episode that in and of itself is consistent. We've heard from so many nonprofit leaders again around the globe and I feel that any time they were successful it was when they were diligent with their consistency and I see that with my clients that I work with as well, you know like creating a plan, sticking to it regardless of what might get thrown your way what wrenches come in but really sticking to that plan being consistent because with consistency there is a little bit for me I really appreciate the this is what I can expect. This is the consistent behavior this is the consistent action and it might warrant a different not consistent result than what you've done before with inconsistency. So it's really been fun to watch how some leaders have been very strict in their consistent efforts and what that has brought them. You know, that is fascinating. I don't know if I would I totally agree with you. I don't know if that would have come up only because but I like that. I like that answer a lot and I think maybe more than an answer I like that observation a lot because I think that's I think it's a powerful reminder that a lot of times we suffer fatigue internally but we forget that there are 1.8 million nonprofits out there and you know there's a lot of noise and the way you minimize some of that is by being consistent and it gets boring quickly internally internally does but to the exterior ecosystem it's smart you know for me my biggest lesson learned and like I'm like oh my God it's a lesson I have to learn over and over again but you know and it kind of breaks my heart to say this but passion does not rule the day and I say this because I think over the trajectory of my life I've become an incredible philanthropic snob where I've been like really that nonprofit they're not doing the work of the angels this nonprofit is doing the work of the angels and so I minimize somebody's work because I think it's not really a valiant effort right it's a bias as to what I think should be going on in society and so when I see nonprofits who I don't believe are doing the work of the angels rake in the money get all this attention become the superstars and I'm like really there's a woman and children shelter for domestic violence just over there and they get nothing but the problem is that that nonprofit who's really moving ahead better management, better marketing better communications, better structure they are better managed and so passion does not rule the day and it's like I said Jared it's kind of heartbreaking well that's interesting to hear and I've seen it right it's like oh the so and so big organization gets all of the grantors funding it gets all the accolades it gets all of the whatever and you know down the street or across town there's an equal just as critical mission doing the same thing that no one knows about right like the best kept secret which in reality not a single nonprofit wants to be a best kept secret no and it is such an interesting thing because at the core of all of this is emotion right how do we how do we live a life of value service our faith our values all of this stuff and then we weave in the nonprofit sector and so somebody who might be women and children focused goes up against somebody who's equally focused on animal welfare right or something and then there just these inequities I believe inequities and it's really tough it's really, really tough and I think that's just kind of one of those things that we for me that's a big lesson because I always think oh the right thing is gonna win every day and it doesn't be right but the right thing is different to different people right exactly looking at that is different okay let's talk about a challenging topic because over the last 999 episodes right we've had some interesting conversations some interesting guests so what has been your most challenging topic to discuss Julia? I think the biggest thing has been mindset and self care because I'm of a generation where you don't bring it to work and there's this level and I think it's mostly generational that's like and also because of being a female I always struggled growing up being identified as a female because it automatically dropped me below the men right you know I was in the first wave of women that went to a private men's college I mean you automatically saw all these different benefits and roles changed when you were identified as a female and so the mindset of understanding how we navigate with authenticity if you're having a bad day I was raised that you the minute you walk through that door man that day is great right you leave all that behind and there's this new generation that's like no if I'm having a bad day this is my authentic self and I need to communicate that I had this conversation with Rita Sorenen a goddess of goddesses CEO of the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption and she and I are equal it is similar in age and she was said the exact same thing she said but she's done a better job at navigating it because she's like when you know female employees would come in and talk about their lives she was like are you kidding me we don't talk about that right you know and she's like she said I've had to reevaluate how I perceive what is authentic leadership so for me that's been I'm sure Jarrett until I go into my little box on the mantle that will still be something that I struggle with right so I don't know yeah well and I know I've pushed you out of your comfort zone too because that was a huge one for me showing up authentically putting my mental health and wellness first talking about it openly so I love hearing from you that you're working through and on so much of that for me the most challenging discussion or the topic to discuss over the last four years you know we talk about pandemics plural and for me I'm gonna call out the social unrest because that is still going on in our society and we still have leaders in our social profit sector that are not supporting people of color a different justice right like we're still not quite behind the whole equity and there are so many individuals that bring their lived experiences into the sector yet we are still often run and manage by this white superior complex that has been the hardest for me I learned that anti-racism was a thing during the last four years for me I just thought oh I'm not racist and that was the end of my journey but learning to be anti-racist and learning to lean into a deeper understanding for me that's why I say like one we all have so much work to do I have so much work to do and I choose to lean into that space it's not always comfortable but it is a space that I am working to get better educated and informed on so my friends around the globe you're doing a fantastic job and I'm also taking it upon myself of course to lean into that because I do feel that I have privilege but I have the commitment and the obligation to my community and to my friends to stand up and to use my voice in these opportunities so I love that I think that's amazing and I think it is, you know we talk about the DEI component of impact and how it makes such improvements right? It actually is something that it makes us stronger when we look at that concept and construct and yet we have to back up and start bringing people along to the realization that this is something that will ultimately help us right? And it's still something that is so so difficult so yeah that's lovely it's difficult and people are like nope let's not talk about it let's just cover our eyes it'll go away and it's not and so I'm still here on a mission to bring that up. Okay we'll move forward because I'm looking at the clock Julia and just like every episode it's going by very quickly. I know. Geez Louise I thought the same thing okay where is opportunity found? What do you say Jared Ransom nonprofit nerd? This is a fun one for me because I could answer this in many ways but I'm gonna get back to basics. I do believe opportunity is found when we get back to basics we map out our procedures, our processes and integrate new systems, technology and processes right? So let's strip everything down let's be opportunistic in the basic of everything and then let's build out again where we are today for the systems that we have accessible because look at AI and just technology in general Julia over the last four years the advancement in technology so I do think there's tons of opportunity we can get back to basics and then start to build out a new system and process for effective management. Yeah I love that I think you're absolutely right and I think with, you know how, if we ever needed an illustration of how vital the nonprofits are in our society locally and globally it's been the pandemics right? Because the nonprofits been on the front line so you are right. I think that's really brilliant and I think, you know you've said it best you know the positive aspect of disruption and when you disrupt and you go towards new things it doesn't always have to be shiny and new you know but I love that comment you're stripping it back looking at something and then figuring out what's working and what's not. For me I think the biggest opportunity that we have and it's something that is again generational I think is this the ability to get educated in the nonprofit sector in post-secondary education because you know in my day there was no nonprofit management. I mean one of my beloved professor Peter F. Drucker the father of American management wrote a very small monograph about nonprofit CEO leadership that was actually taken from a recording that he did for you know like in a think tank and it was just like wow that was revolutionary. You know it shouldn't be revolutionary. We need to be educating people about management in the nonprofit sector and not just taking people that might have been good therapists or good social workers or good you know something in that programmatic direction and plopping them into management and hoping that they you know that they're successful because that's what we've done. And you're right the nonprofit management school the program I mean Funnery's Academy at National University right? Like producing amazing nonprofit leaders. So I also was of that timeframe or maybe I was just completely unaware I did marketing communication because I was really unaware of nonprofits at that time but my internship in that marketing communications program led me to nonprofits. And we are grateful. We are totally grateful. So now as we finish up and we only have a short period of time what do you think moving forward is gonna look like because you know we always tease our guests okay get out the crystal ball tell us what you know but now what are you seeing or what are you thinking about? So for me forecasting the future of the sector I'm really leaning into innovation right? And it is so time it is over time that we as a community do things differently and not fall back on our laurels of well that's the way we've always done it. And I know I say that and people say yeah we don't do it that way but you do. It's in your mind. It's in the mind we still fall back on doing the same old same old you know I was just a keynote speaker for Ida Bailey and they have a webinar but they have an awards it's called the resource fullness awards with full spelled out F-U-L-L. And it really is all about what can we do to tap into innovation to be resourceful to look at this from a full F-U-L-L lens not a scarcity lens. There is so much opportunity I talked about you know if you do some competitive benchmarking even generic benchmarking of other industries right? Like consumer behavior when we see this on the internet how can you mirror that to donor behavior? Where are we having these experiences as soon as you purchase something online as a consumer you are immediately thanked you are asked in three days how the product is working for you like there is so much we can learn to tap into innovation. So for me forecasting the future of the sector is really leaning into innovation and if I could add a second one it's disruption and it is that positive disruption but I think we will have disruption by leaning into innovation like truly embracing innovation for the possibilities. Yeah I love that and I think that is a logical way for us to be thinking about everything right? I mean the way we manage our households our health our education you know our mindset absolutely I think that's something that we need to be embracing and not be fearful of. You know for me forecasting the future of our sector it really almost goes back to what we were just talking about and that is this mass exodus and aging of our current leadership. So the good news is that we have a whole new demographic of leadership coming in better educated more current more able to deal with technology. So I think this next wave of leadership I'm super excited about because they will be able to steward us with to your point innovation and embrace disruption right? Whereas you know that older mindset of current leadership that's going away has been like yeah no this is what we always do and they won't open their brains or their hearts to trying new things right? And so I feel like this is really the opportunity of this next wave is to see the passing of the torch and it's also on the board level it's not just in the C-suite it's gonna be mirrored by our boards. And if you think about 1.8 million non-profits and the average board has 10 board members that's a huge swath of talent change at the same time right? And so that is a huge change. It's huge change. Do you see I don't know if it's chronicle philanthropy but one of her philanthropy publications shared about how there is this mass exodus of the C-suite positions right? And really how that opens up new leadership and the C-suite positions the mass exodus it's not only retirement it's also moving to consultancy. So a lot of seniors have decided it is time for me to do my own thing the economy has the opportunity for this. I mean here I am celebrating 15 years this month in March as a consultant in the non-profit space. So I loved reading that article because it was so fascinating to me and I think you're right Julia your answer and my answer dovetails well together when it comes to innovation and new leadership. Because you know I think that's where you have this power structure and this shift because the mindset of a younger more educated and technologically oriented leader is huge, right? I mean I remember in the late 70s Scottsdale High got an IBM Selectric and it was not, it might have been on the front page but it was in the front section of our local the Scottsdale Progress our local newspaper and they sent a reporter Jarrett to take a picture of an IBM Selectric, right? Because and it was like wow and I remember my father saying you are a privileged child because my business doesn't even have that, right? That it was like the advent of grand technology, right? I mean so hello, we have so much to go through and to embrace so that we can ultimately be better we can be stronger stewards and really of our nonprofits and really embrace the impact that I know that we can be doing, right? We can be achieving, so fascinating. I need to and I want our leaders to stop thinking we're nonprofits, so we have to do everything with less money, we deserve less of so many things, right? Like resources or whatever even when it comes to donations we often think, well, I don't wanna wear this so I'll take it to a nonprofit, right? And so we often get the, just I don't know the things that roll downhill, yeah but it's time for us in the nonprofit sector to stand up and to speak up and do things differently. Another shout out to the movie Uncharitable if you have not seen it please make that something you do this week or by the end of this weekend because that movie will change the way you look at nonprofits. I love that. I think you're absolutely right, absolutely right and I think it's also incumbent upon us to keep searching, right? I mean, as you and I have embraced a thousand episodes we have definitely been searching and learning and observing new things and so what an amazing and fun journey it's been. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy been joined today by the nonprofit nerd herself pretty in pink, push up those glasses for me sister just so that the nonprofit nerd herself CEO of the Raven Group, amazing sponsors. And again, I say this every once in a while but probably not enough and it's really important to recognize that our sponsors, as Jarrett mentioned at the top of the show most of them have been with us from the get go but they do not influence what we talk about. They never edit what the direction the editorial direction is and it's really a powerful thing because we have an open format to discuss pretty much anything that we want to or that we are hearing about or we feel that there's a good story to tell or some connectivity. And so these folks have been the most amazing, amazing partners anyone could ever ask for. Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy nonprofit thought leader, staffing boutique Katie Warnick called me out of the blue from New York City and said, how do I get on this show? And I was like, what? Your part time controller, Eric Frank the CEO of this amazing organization took his finger and rolled it around the screen and said, how do I get my logo on there? And it changed our world because we realized that we could sell sponsorships. 180 management group, one of our new partners who is really, really interesting and has all sorts of new ideas they're consulting and coaching consultancy amazing Fundraising Academy at National University Oh my gosh. Again, we had these amazing relationships that just fell from the sky. I should say fell from zoom, Jared because that's the world that we were working in. And I want to definitely shout out Tony Bell, who came to us again right in the very beginning and he is stewarded by Pearl Hoagland and Faith Martin and all of the amazing trainers that we have moving forward with us. JMT Consulting, a new group there involved in FinTech again led by Jacqueline Tezo who's just fascinating and she'll be on shortly. Again, the nonprofit nerd herself as well as nonprofit tech talk. So we have phenomenal gratitude for the people that have allowed us this conversation and who have gotten us here. It has not always been easy. There are a lot of new and exciting changes on the horizon and so stick with us. Who knows where we'll be for the 2000th episode. That's right. What a fun journey. Thank you, Julia. Thank you. Thank you. Well, as we end every episode what do we like to say, Jared? We like to remind all of you and ourselves to stay well, so you can do well. Thanks for joining us for this milestone episode. We'll see you back tomorrow.