 Good afternoon everybody and welcome to today's webinar Express how to build a global brand the Vimto Way which has been organised by CIM North West. If you are a university student attending today's webinar you may want to sign up for the CIM Marketing Club newsletter, it will keep you up to date with the latest trends, innovations and concepts in the marketing industry. All you'll need to do is to take a photograph of the QR code you can see on screen at the moment and it will take you straight to the sign up page on the CIM website. So I'd now like to hand you over to Emma Hunt who is marketing director at Vimto who has our guest speaker today. Over to you Emma. Thanks Judith and hello everyone. It's great that you could join today's session. My name is Emma Hunt and I'm the group marketing director for Nichols PLC which is the home of Vimto. To tell you a little bit about us we're a 118 million turnover business operating in the UK and internationally selling a broad range of beverage brands across the squash, still carbonated and frozen drinks categories. Now I've been asked to speak to you today about our story. The story of how Vimto, a drink created in Manchester in the north west of England became a global brand and hopefully along the way I'll give you some insights and ideas on process and approach that will be relevant when thinking about your own brand's growth strategies and at the very least you'll end up knowing a lot more about Vimto than when you started. But to tell the story of that growth we need to go right back to Manchester over a hundred years ago to 1908 when a man called John Noel Nichols created a herbal tonic made to a secret recipe that would give its drinkers Vim and bigger. Now back then John was given a hundred pounds by his brother-in-law to set up a business at a time when two key market drivers influenced his decision. Firstly, this was before the NHS at a time when people would visit herbalist shops to buy medicines which were made from natural ingredients such as roots, sparks and herbs that would cure whatever ailed them. It was also during the time of the temperance movement when people were encouraged to reduce their alcohol consumption and temperance bars which were places where you could socialise over a non-alcoholic drink sprung up across the North West. So John decided to set himself up as a wholesaling porter of these ingredients and from them he created his Vim and bigger tonic or Vim tonic which he would sell in concentrated format to the temperance bars who would then have still or sparkling cold water or hot water to the concentrate. Creating different ways for people to enjoy what would later simply become known as Vimto. And true story, I've got a really personal connection to the brand because my grandma and granddad actually first met over a glass of Vimto in a temperance bar near Manchester. So it's fair to say if it wasn't for Vimto I wouldn't actually be here today. And for any of you who are planning to visit Manchester you'll find a tribute monument on Granby Row, the site where Vimto was first created which was carved by an artist called Kerry Morrison and installed back in 1992. So fast forward to today and the Vimto brand is sold in over 73 countries around the world. Our three biggest markets are the UK where one in four households purchase Vimto each year and the brand is worth 97 million, Africa where we're available in over 25 countries across the continent and the Middle East where Vimto is consumed during Ramadan where it's shared at Iftar, the meal taken at sunset to break the daily fast and during this period Vimto is consumed by 60% of the population each day. So what's our approach been to turn Vimto from Northwest favourite to global brand and what could that mean for your own brand's journey? Well the first question to ask yourself is why you want to expand your business or brands internationally. Clearly the first and most obvious is revenue growth potential. Once your brand successfully established in your home market it can often make sense to take the business brand or service offering abroad. By extending your brand into new overseas territories you gain access to whole new markets with the potential to build a new customer base and ultimately generate more sales. Secondly successfully expanding a brand internationally can provide long-term risk mitigation by reducing your reliance on your domestic market by diversifying your presence with a global footprint you can better balance the impact of changes within markets. So if external factors cause sales to be affected in one this can be offset by the contribution from other regions. Expanding abroad can also offer a competitive advantage by entering markets your competition can't or don't operate in and building brand recognition around the world can ultimately have a stronger long-term impact on your business. And finally it's ultimately about building brands but do recognize it will take time. Our store has been over a hundred years in the making and we're still learning all the time. It's often easiest to move into new markets when you've got robust and stable market share in your home country and your brand equity is strong. But whilst it is about following a clear planning process it's also about a willingness to be flexible and pragmatic in your approach as opportunities can and do a rise organically. So how did VIMPTO first make those steps into international markets? Well, it all started in the early 1920s when a man called Richard Goodser who was a salesman for the Kiwi Boot Polish Company and a friend of John Noel Nichols took a few samples of VIMPTO Cordial to India with him for local bottling plants to try out. And there was a ready-made market on hand in the form of British troops who were stationed overseas and for whom it was a taste of home. But the locals also developed a liking for VIMPTO and its popularity then soon spread around neighboring parts of the British Empire. And many Indian clerks who were fluent in Arabic and English then found employment in the Gulf region at the time and took some VIMPTO Cordial with them. And so the drink then became popular with the locals there due to its unique taste and the fact it was non-alcoholic. And by 1930, VIMPTO was being shipped from Salford Docks to our partner, the Aujan family's network of trading branches into the Arab states. And it was packed in wooden crates and in the bulkheads of ships and they were offloaded in Bahrain and transported across the Arabian Gulf in sailing ships called dowes. Now, VIMPTO also became increasingly popular in the Muslim areas of the Indian subcontinent and interestingly, the Cordial in the region was and still remains double strength compared with the UK version to cut down on transport costs. So the evolution of VIMPTO's presence globally was very organic in those early years. But today our approach is built around a clear process and framework for entering new markets. So let me walk you through that process and then through the rest of the deck I'll try and bring that to life with some examples of how that manifests itself around the world. So it starts with a clear assessment of the market which enables us to understand whether there's a potential opportunity for the brand. We then use consumer research to assess how acceptable the product is to local consumers and to begin to shape the desired positioning in territory. Then we'll determine the best way to enter the market and often identify local partners whose selection and fit with our business are fundamental to our success. And then we work with our partners to develop the right marketing strategy and we use their expertise and local knowledge to build upon our role. But ultimately all of this is about people. It underpins everything we do whether that's developing a deep understanding of consumers and their needs to foster in a really great culture in the business with a team that really live and breathe our vision and values and basically act as brand champions at home and around the world. So stage one, as I said, is about conducting a clear landscaping and market assessment to provide as much objective data as possible to identify markets with the greatest potential for the brand to succeed. And this early assessment is about understanding the context in which you might operate and there are plenty of tools and data sources to support this. So conduct a pestle analysis to consider the external factors be they political, economic, social, technological, legal or environmental that affect the market and then understand the economic environment of the new market looking at factors such as GDP, economic growth, exchange and inflation rates, consumer purchasing power and all of that can enable you to assess potential demand, look at product costing and also growth potential. Then it's important to understand the demographics of the market. So is the population growing? How is it made up by age? And what does this mean for your potential target audience? You'll also want to understand any regulations around international trade, for example, tariffs, taxes or subsidies. Any customs procedures or regulations around IP, labeling or packaging that need to be factored into your planning. And culture and people is an important one. So assess the cultural differences in market. What are the attitudes, the values, norms and beliefs of consumers there and how might they need to be taken into consideration when building your strategy? And this can influence everything from product positioning to marketing strategy and communications. And finally use tools such as Porter's five forces model to assess the competitive context of the market in which you intend into launch. So having completed an assessment of the market either can then specifically begin to understand the size of the opportunity and we'd look at the size of the soft drinks market as a whole and each product category within it are they in growth and why? How is the category made up? What are the flavors, formats and any conventions within the market? We'd understand the competitor set. How are they positioned? Where could our brand sit within the market? Who will it compete against? And is there clear white space for our brand offer? And by doing this, we begin to understand the current and future potential growth opportunity. Also consider the value chain. There may be a great opportunity but is it commercially viable? What's the cost of entry? How will your price position within the market and what impact will that have on your potential audience size and therefore volume? In many African markets, for example, Vinto occupies a premium price positioning where a bottle would be seen as a treat and could represent a significant proportion of a typical buyer's weekly wage. So understand all of the costs associated with bringing the product to market from manufacture to distribution and marketing to understand whether market entry is viable. And finally segment the market and identify your target audience developing the brand proposition and the product offer and then research that with consumers in market to optimize and ensure it's relevant, motivated and differentiated. Now at the heart of every great success story is a great product and Vinto is no exception. In fact, it's something I've been drinking since I was a little girl as you can probably tell by my accent. But wherever you try Vinto around the world that secret recipe that was created by John Noel Nichols back in 1908 is still at the heart of all of our products which guarantees consistency. It's a closely guarded secret and it's only known by a few people within our business and I'm not one of them. But what we've found has been important is the ability to adapt that base recipe to suit local consumer tastes and the rules of the category in which we're operating. So we'll flex other elements like juice and sugar content packaging formats or flavors in line with the needs of the consumers in the market in which we're operating. For example, health is a key macro trend globally but the way that that manifests itself may be very different by market. In the UK, we've been reducing the sugar content of our whole portfolio and now 99% of the range is either reduced or no added sugar. Whereas in Africa and the Middle East the product contains a higher sugar content because its use is different and there the brand is seen as providing a boost of energy as well as refreshment. So when entering new markets understand if your product will work in its current guise or will it need to be adapted to suit local consumer preferences. Consider also what claims, features and benefits resonate most strongly and don't forget local legislative requirements for both packaging and product. Now Vimto has evolved significantly over the years through innovation and renovation which is absolutely critical not only as the look of the range changed with the times but we've moved from that original Claudio to a cradle to grave range of carbonates, juice drinks, waters and even slushes. So if you try to understand the broader market trends that will impact that'll give you some idea of how you'll need to evolve your product offering over time to ensure that it remains relevant and appealing to your consumers. To also look at what opportunities existing growing or emerging categories in new white space territories or adjacent categories, couple of recent examples. In the UK obviously health and wellbeing is a macro trend as I said but concerns have actually broadened from a focus on sugar to broader concerns around health and particularly immunity in the wake of COVID and people are looking for products that don't just taste good but do good as well. So consumer insight led us to identify a need to strengthen our core squash product through vitamin fortification. And from a flavor perspective and after a hundred years as a one flavor brand in 2015 we expanded the range to include a variety of flavors but all of them follow the same principle that John Noll Nichols created way back when which is that they contain the secret into ingredient and a blend of three fruits and all provide a really unique but indescribable taste. But think also about specific trends, flavor preferences and new occasions that might be served by your brands. In Africa for example, malt drinks are extremely popular and often used as a meal replacement. We launched in our core West African markets a vinto malt which is a malt drink with a hint of vinto. And for the first time no added sugar was launched in the Middle East region in 2020 where the sweetness is provided by natural juices only. Now if your brand's mature and well recognized then stretching your brand through licensing can unlock incremental opportunities for you to connect with consumers and provide new ways for them to enjoy your brand. It can also help to drive brand awareness, taste familiarity and consumer engagement which is something we see strongly through social media when these types of products launch. So we've got a well established licensing program and I think that combination of the unique taste and the fun brand personality really connects with consumers in other categories. So our range goes from confectionary to slushies, desserts, donuts and even pancake mixes. So maybe there are opportunities for you to stretch your own brands. But once you're clear about your product offering the next thing to determine is how you want to enter a market. From an international perspective this could be via setting up a local office, exporting through a distribution partner or via licensing. At Vimto we use a combination of export and local manufacturing and licensing and often see the market to gauge the brand's potential before approaching a partner to manufacture and distribute the brand. In either model finding great partners is key whether that's for manufacturing, distribution or full service including sales and marketing. So understand what you want your partners to do for you and assess the market to understand the landscape and determine the best partners to work with based on those requirements. Most of our partnerships are very long standing which not only ensures that we're partnering for growth together but that we benefit from their local market knowledge and expertise, the strong retail relationships that they have and distribution and reach. And as a result Vimto is actually very much seen as a local brand in the markets in which we're present. So with all that in place we then build and implement our marketing strategy which varies from market to market and will be shaped not only by our strategic, commercial and marketing objectives but also by our partner's insight, capability and their local knowledge. So for new markets we've got a consistent four stage approach. Firstly it's about building distribution to ensure physical availability with great visibility at the point of purchase. Then it's about ensuring people can try the product because we know that our unique taste is at the heart of the proposition and once people try it they generally love it and there is really strong conversion from trial to purchase. So building familiarity with the taste is key. And finally building mental availability and brand awareness through the line activity which is then tailored to the specific market and target audience. So let me show you how that looks by region with a quick snapshot of the branding market. So we'll start with Africa now. As I said, distribution is key but in many parts of Africa the modern trade that is supermarkets and other retail outlets represents only a small proportion of the overall market and traditional trade outlets such as markets, street vendors and roadside sellers dominate. And those traditional trade outlets are notoriously difficult to reach and they can often be in quite remote locations. And in fact getting market data on them is even harder. So having partners with deep experience in the region is key. And the pictures that I just showed you there illustrate Vinto being distributed and sold in some of those environments. Now across the world our unique taste as I said is at the heart of the brand story in the proposition. But the way that that's actually expressed and executed will be subtly different. So in these examples from various African markets such as Senegal, Mali and Tanzania you can actually see this in action. So here our communications campaign focuses on a central idea that life tastes better with Vinto which is the Donde du Goutabbe in the bottom left hand corner in French. But we also anchor our plans around important events within the annual calendar in those markets times of togetherness or celebration. And this can be religious festivals such as Ramadan and Tabasque or Valentine's which Vinto is increasingly becoming associated with in places like Cameroon. And I've included links in the bottom left if you want to have a look afterwards to some videos of the TV campaigns that have run across the African continent. Now these campaigns will then be executed across a medium mix which is determined by audience and market but would usually include TV, outdoor and digital and social which is important in Africa where 60% of the population is under 25. And whilst internet usage is lower than here it is growing as infrastructure improves and urbanization grows. But on the ground activity is still very important and these images illustrates some of the activities and events such as activations in Tanzania and Sudan with entertainers and talent competitions combined with consumer sampling and a family day with kids entertainment in Sierra Leone. Now in the Middle East where Vinto Cordial was first introduced to the region in 1928 Vinto's become synonymous as I said with Ramadan and each year Vinto Cordial is the drink of choice served on the Iftar table and it's prepared and consumed by families across all generations. In the Middle East Vinto's position there's a symbol of sweet togetherness which explains the features and benefits of the drink itself and its association with this important occasion and its role in people's lives. And here digital and TV creative focuses on those occasions. So on the left you've got a 2020 TV ad which ran during lockdown and focused on the importance of family gatherings and how they had to evolve during COVID when people couldn't physically get together. And this was supported by a TikTok and influencer campaign with a filter which enabled people to pass the Vinto which is a way of sharing the experience and those moments of togetherness despite being apart. And on the right the campaign that ran to support the recent launch of no added sugar in the Middle East. Now unlike Africa distribution is well established in retail outlets and so you'll see these huge displays featured in store in the run up to and during Ramadan across the Middle East. And through the line activity will feature on billboards, roadside, six sheets and in malls where a recent promotion ran in Bloomingdale's which is the image on the bottom right which invited consumers to have their own personalised Vinto bottle made encrusted with Swarovski crystals as a gift for family and friends. Back in the UK you may be more familiar with the brand here but again taste sits at the heart of our proposition and we're Vinto seen as quirky, distinctive and refreshingly different and these still show our most recent TV campaign. Now the creative was developed following extensive research and it was built on an insight about our audiences which is that we're all unique and different and we want to celebrate that but sometimes finding what makes you different and life itself can be a journey of discovery. So by trying new things ultimately you discover what makes you you and that's as true of our audience as it is of our brand and that campaign found you different has two executions with the links there and in each the central characters are shown trying all sorts of different activities from the mundane to the surreal from fishing to sumo wrestling farmers. It launched in May and it featured across TV, VOD and mobile. And as well as being activated online and out of home on six sheets in key retail locations it was also activated in store and that was supported with a new iconic look for the brand which we're now actually rolling out across many African countries. So that's a snapshot of our activity around the world and I hope that shows you some of the commonality but also some of the differences by market. As I said at the outset none of that really would be possible without having great people at the heart of our business. No, they really are our secret ingredient if you will and whether that's our agents and our partners on the ground who bring the brand to life in our markets around the world to our people at home nothing is possible without great people. So, hopefully that gives you an overview of our global brand journey and the story of how Vinto became a very well loved brand from Manchester to Mombasa. But I suppose if I was to pull out a few insights that I want to leave you with they are firstly it all starts with having a great product secondly do use insight and data to really understand your potential consumers and the markets you want to operate in and follow a clear process but recognise that it's not always linear and you also need to be prepared to be adaptable in shaping your product and your marketing mix to suit local needs. It's also important to constantly evolve the offer and innovate in line with macro, market and category trends. Next I'd say understand the best way for you to enter a market and select the right strategic partners to go on the journey with you because their expertise and their local market knowledge will have a great bearing on your success. And finally recognise the value and importance of your people. You know they are the beating heart of every business and we have a great culture at Vinto so we believe that fostering that culture where people are empowered and encouraged really means that you've got a whole range of brand advocates out there in the world championing your brand. That's great, thanks very much Emma that was a really great presentation. So now we're gonna have a short Q&A session. There's still time to submit questions if you want to so please pop them in the questions box and we'll try and get through as many as we can in the next 10 to 15 minutes. So Emma for the first question we've got someone who's from Dubai and as you said it's Vinto's a brand mainly associated there in the UAE as a go-to drink during Ramadan. But their feeling is that there's less visibility at other times. How can Vinto work to break this image of the drink only being served during Ramadan and perhaps make it an alternative to fizzy drinks? I think that's a brilliant question. There's a number of ways that the team ACCBC who we partner with have been developing there. Recently there's been lots of extensions to the brand range. So introducing new flavors to the range, introducing new formats that capitalise on new occasions. So there are now ready to drink still products. I think the introduction of the no added sugar Vinto is a big one because clearly that means it's from a health perspective it's very much an all year round drink. But yeah, I would say it's through brand extension. It's through new formats and flavours and it's through evolving the product range so that it is very much seen as something that is consumed as an everyday product. Excellent, thank you. And then we've got the question on sustainability. Do you think today's emphasis on the environment slash sustainability will affect brands, ability to go global? For instance, greater pressure to reduce CO2 which may impact on import, export costs and even customer perception, such as buying locally. I think that's a brilliant, that is a really brilliant question. It's so pertinent right now. I'm not sure I could necessarily do just, it's a very big question that one. I suppose what I would say is, within our business we have something called our happy future strategy and that's our very specific approach to the issue of sustainability. We have a number of pillars within that looking at everything from carbon footprint through to our packaging. Also, we have a work stream called Healthier Future which is all about all the products that we will intend to launch which create healthier choices for consumers as well as what we do internally in terms of giving back. I think the key thing is about starting the journey and understanding not only the environmental impact of your own business so that you can begin to then kind of set targets to address that but also engaging with existing partners internationally and future partners to understand what they're doing in this area because it's not just a regional problem, it's a global problem. So I think building that sustainability conversation into your planning processes is quite an important way of addressing this. Okay, and then I've got, the next question is, does the fact that VIMTO is a British brand give you an advantage in certain overseas markets could be a disadvantage in some I suppose but at the moment, Brexit. And I suppose you could weave in what government support you may get from UK trade if that's relevant, could be helpful for the marketers to know about. Yeah, I think what's interesting for VIMTO because I can obviously only top my own experiences as I said about the partnership. So we've been operating internationally for nine on 90 years, just over 90 years. And like I said, most of those partnerships are longstanding. And I actually think that works very positively for us because what it means is that the brand is very much seen as a local brand. It's developing collaboration in a lot of those markets. And it isn't necessarily seen as a British brand. Now that's not true around the rest of the world. So for example, we do export to areas of Europe, exporting both our products that you would see in Africa for example, to the expat communities there, but also to you and I when we're going on holiday on the Costa del Sol. I think there are real advantages to being a British brand because it stands for so much in terms of kind of quality perceptions around the world. But I think it's very much on a case-by-case basis. I think it depends. There may be other things that are more relevant within your brand proposition than the fact that you're British. But so I think it very much depends on the brand and the service. And obviously, you know, it's easy for me to talk about Vunto probably less so given the number of people we've got on this call in terms of your own businesses. Okay, now the next question is how much are the marketing mix and decisions on creative or led by the UK headquarters versus given to the distribution partners to decide on? Oh, it all depends market by market. So in the UK, obviously we control all of the marketing efforts. It will depend on the level of sophistication of the partner that we work with. I'll give you a couple of examples within the African continent. So what we will do there is, you know, ideally what we look for is partners who have that level of expertise and understanding because that's really important and full stop in developing collaborative plans. But what we'll also do is, you know, create brand guidelines. We create toolkits, we'll create a calendar events and then we will go and build those plans in partnership with our partners. And, you know, that will be a process that runs as part of our annual planning calendar system. They will take those guidelines, they'll take those calendars and those toolkits and then they'll overlay their local knowledge and expertise to refine those plans and make sure they're as good as possible. So suppose the answer to that question is it depends on the market, it depends on the partner, but it is in most cases a very collaborative process. Okay, that's great. Next question. One person business, how would you suggest they collect data? It's a small business in sort of food manufacturing. How would you suggest that they might collect data when they make products themselves, sell on the markets and have done well compared to larger competitors? If they're sort of starting at the beginning of a journey compared to where you are, where would you say would be a starting point for them? So I suppose there's a few different sources and, you know, we could talk about it at length and I understand the challenge there because if you're a much smaller business then, you know, access to paid for data might be quite limited. There are a couple of directories, there's the European Directory of Marketing Sources which is helpful. There's trade associations that you could speak to in local markets. If you're just at the start of the journey and obviously you may be looking for distributors partners then often, you know, they will have information that they can provide you that will give you some insight into particular markets. If you are working with financial advisory services often they will have access to a lot of this data as well. And then obviously there's paid for data services like global data or Inova that enable you to put market by market products within a market or information about a specific market. And then there's just a lot of, I guess, looking online and developing relationships really so that you can access that market. If you're already talking to partners then quite often they will have knowledge and insight themselves. But yeah, I do recognize in that knowledge that can be quite important when you're just at the start of the journey. But hopefully that gives you a bit of a broad overview of some of the potential routes that you could follow to access some market data. Okay, next question. So obviously somebody sounds like they know your product quite well. What made you decide to refresh the brand's visual identity and how do you balance the nostalgia aspect of VIMTO with being relevant in 2021? Do you know what, that is such a brilliant question because it's a question that we always to and fro on within the business. I'm sure for many people that are watching today you might be quite surprised about maybe the history or about the reach across the world. And I know whenever I share that story there's something about the heritage of the brand that clearly it makes us very authentic. It shows we've been around for some time. But it's interesting when you think about how much you use that in your open communications. What we found through research is it resonates with some audiences and for others it doesn't. So we tend to use it as a secondary supporting story rather than our primary driver from a communications point of view. In terms of packaging, what we do is over a regular period as I guess most brand marketers will do is we evaluate the performance of our brand and we'll look at all sorts of different dimensions the performance of our comms and the consumer response to our product. And within that we'll also chest how well consumers are responding to our packaging. And it's from research like that that we then maybe identify some of the barriers to travel for people who aren't currently buying the brand that need to be involved to address that. And so the most recent packaging design obviously came after a clear process of many stages of research too. I guess simplify the packaging and create a more kind of iconic presentation for the brand which is the big white V that you see sitting behind the logo. We tested that in the UK. We've tested it in various areas around the world. And as I said, we're just about to start well, we are starting rolling that out now to some of our markets in Africa but it won't necessarily be right for all markets. And I think this is an important point hopefully that I've kind of landed through the deck which is you do need to have, I think, a bit of flexibility and a level of pragmatism and maybe understand which parts of your brand should be consistent around the world which for us obviously is all about that secret recipe and that taste of Intel and which parts you do need to flex because you may not be able to succeed within some international markets without some sort of adaption. Okay, and then the next question. How have you changed your strategy or implementation based on a recent insight from market research? So maybe if I talk about the flavours and vitamin D that I referred to in that presentation. So we conducted some research and I was probably going back a few years ago now really just to look at potential growth opportunities for the brand and one of the things that became clear was that Vinto occupies this really unique territory as a red-black drink. It's got really distinctive flavour, you can't copy it. Nobody else can create a version of Vinto because of that kind of secret formula. But we recognised there was an opportunity to extend the brand and what we found through testing is it's not right for Vinto to just do an orange or a lemon drink, that there were some consistent things that we found through research that had to be present in those flavours. So what they're all made up from is the Vinto recipe and then three juices, which is what is contained in original Vinto. And each of them has a really distinctive, unique taste to themselves, but maybe not a taste you can kind of put your finger on. And so that piece of research really showed us that there were certain things that were really needed to be consistent for it still to be considered to be Vinto. Okay, there is one question. I'll just mention this flag it up. Someone said, would you ever have a plan to launch an alcoholic version of a cheeky Vinto? So that might be a step too far, would it? Some of your markets, definitely it would be. Yeah, definitely so. I mean, it's brilliant that people are doing that themselves and creating their own concoctions and you only have to look on social media to see how much the rank connects with people and how they really take it to the heart and do all sorts of weird and wonderful things. I know if you're based in the Northwest as I am, many of the restaurants in Manchester, for example, have Vinto on their menus, you'll find it in. It's so interesting because it's such a versatile ingredient. It works in savouries, it works with sweets and you'll find it in everything from gravy to desserts in some of the restaurants around here. But in terms of alcoholic drinks, I think given our global presence and I think given some of the markets and the people that we target, if you think about families, it's probably a bit inconsistent with what we want to do around the world. So it's interesting that people do it but it's not something that we're gonna launch ourselves. Excellent. That's brilliant, Emma. And there's been some really interesting questions and some great answers as well. We're putting you on the spot there. So that's all the time we have now for our webinar today. I'd like to say thanks to Emma for today's presentation and once again to CIM Northwest for organizing the event. We do hope you found it interesting and worthwhile. We'll be back with our webinar express series on the 30th of September when CIM Southeast will be hosting using Google Analytics to make better marketing decisions with Jeff Roy. You can find further details listed on the events page on the CIM website where you'll also be able to register for the session. So on behalf of CIM, thank you once again, Emma, for a really great presentation and thank you all for joining us. Have a lovely summer and we'll see you again soon.