 Welcome to the working group of the Racial Disparities Advisory Panel. Our meeting on Monday, September 27th. Let's do introductions. Starting Monica, you are first on my screen. Sure. Thanks. Hi, everyone. I'm Monica Wieber. I am the Department of Corrections Designate to the panel. I believe Robin. Hi, Robin. Crime Research. Okay. Susanna. Hello, Susanna Davis, Racial Equity Director. Karen. Karen Gannett, Crime Research Group. Evan. Evan Mina, Department of State's Attorneys and Sheriffs. Elizabeth. I was with Morris Department for Children and Families. Great. Sheila. Sheila Linton, Community at Large Root Social Justice Center. Thanks. Leo. Leo Thompson, Civil Rights Unit Attorney General's Office. Great. And witchy, please. Witchy attitude that I wear. How specialist appointed by Susanna Davis. And I'm sorry I misunderstood your question several times, witchy. I don't know what we were. We were really speaking at cross purposes. No, that's okay. My sometimes just keep going and don't get to the point. So it's all good. Anyway. The let's see announced. Rebecca is ill and will not be here this evening. So that was one. The second is I spoke this afternoon with Representative LaLonde. Who is interested in figuring out how to bring legislative council in. At least that was a lot of the conversation. And one of the idea. Well, what he would like is perhaps two people from the working group to meet with Ledge Council outside of. Yes. The working group. I would like to ask that. It's hard at being your job, your family life, and all the rest. I was sort of like, I'll ask. I'm just putting that out there. My suggestion back to him was that. He. mid-August and my recommendation to him was to just take those and start writing legislation based on that. They're detailed enough that I should think they're fine for legislation but especially since we're going to be looking over it again. So I wanted to bring that up first. And this would start theoretically next week. I'm happy to meet be one of those two people that means with Ledge Council. Yeah that's totally fine. Next and next and however you want to initiate that engagement if you'd like me to reach out to Representative Launder if you wanted to relay the message that's cool with me. I have a I have a scheduled call with him again tomorrow to let him know how things have gone. So I'll I'll reach out. Great. But thank you Evan. No problem. I'm also willing to. OK. Yeah I mean I think it depends on really what you want but I think that there are some of us who could do that within the context of our jobs but and so. Didn't all he said was it needed to be outside of the context of the Monday night meeting. Which means probably during the working day I'm guessing right. Ledge Council probably isn't going to come to a six o'clock meeting right. Yeah. I would assume. Yeah OK. So OK fine I will pass all this on to him. Other than that there were a bunch of documents and again as I said in the email that I sent accompanying the documents I realized that these come out late. I'm very aware of that. I send them. I there's not much to be done about it. But that's why I put the last sentence in my note. It would be a shame to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If we wait for it to be perfect the report will never be written. And I won't be sending things out. I mean it'll be at least a week lag time. So I am doing the best I can given a situation that is not good. If anybody has another idea about how to take ideas from one week and put them together before the following week with you know something else that has to happen in there. Please weigh in. Tried several things so far. None of them have worked any better. But feel free. Sheila was really great at getting me to figure out how to send out warnings that I had to testify or something last summer. I couldn't figure it out. She came up with a simple solution that worked really well. So somebody here may have a great idea. Feel free to weigh in. But otherwise there are the two documents that were sent. One and discussed that that later is sort of yet another version of the mission statement. I took what people said last week and tried my best to incorporate all of that into the document. So we spoke at great length you'll recall about the governing body and the makeup of the governing body. I did the best I could with trying to capture as many of those groups as possible without it becoming a list that was 55 people long because I know that that also tends to get the legislature a little crazy as well. So I tried to do it as succinctly as possible. It's going to have problems. I get into this all the time just as sort of an aside. When I start talking about the LGBT et cetera community of which I'm a member I've started using the term gender and sexual minorities. But I get yelled at because people want their letter. So that doesn't always work. So you can try to be succinct and still and like capture everybody and it doesn't work because people have a different concern and a different focus on what the naming means and what the naming should mean. So that happened here that happened here and I'm openly putting that out there that that happened here that this the list became shorter. We ended up I believe at the end with 35 different groups listed. And that would have taken a lot of space. So I simplified as much as I could and perhaps too much. The other thing that happened was more of a description of what the governing body does how it does it. I also incorporated the idea about review that the additional staffing of the office of the four figures would change over time moving from a focus on architecture to which you're going to get my language here because I'm going to get it wrong. From architecture more to analysis and collection. And I wrote a thing about that. I'm trying to remember everything. Those are the main points that that got put in. Real focus on how the governing body governed that it really wasn't about the four people being hired it was really about back to the toolkit again the governing body running the show. I also what else did I do. That's mainly what I did. I was just remembering and putting in what people had said. Elizabeth had made a point about God what did I. Elizabeth you made a really damn good point. Now I can't remember which one it was and I put it in. How irritating. Anyway Elizabeth you're in there. God only remembers. I'm sure you covered it. Put something in there. That's that's what that is. And I'd say let's take time perhaps after that I'd like to focus on now and maybe take a few minutes to scan over that so we could have a bit of a discussion about it which he's hand is up hold on. Yeah I'm just wondering because you mentioned if anyone has any ideas and I'm going to perhaps like try to ask this on if she can also put in some feedback on this process but when we were at the racial equity task force we used Google Docs and basically everyone could just edit at the same time and you can see who edits what and you can set it and I think that's worked for me in the past but I but I know also like technology relatively is like challenging in general so I don't know how people feel about it especially if it's a new technology for folks and I guess Susanna how do you feel it worked for the racial equity task force. I have a choppy connection so I'm sorry my audio is bad. I think it worked well for the task force mainly because we had a lot of people who were outside state government and so ordinarily in state government we tend to use the Microsoft suite and so when we do collaborative document editing online it tends to be in Word 365 so we can still see each other's edits etc. in real time but that's not necessarily universally used by people so the Google Doc thing worked because we had a lot of people who were external to state government this this working group or this panel I'm not sure what everybody's limitations are like I've been on other work groups where they say I can't use Google because my job doesn't permit me so I would I don't know I would leave it to everyone else but I suppose in the spirit of inclusion I have found that it has been an inclusive way to ensure that people who are not in state service especially community members can use the stuff. We cannot use Google Docs I already know that. And then I know there's the difference between use and initiate right because I'm joining Zoom meetings all day but I can't start one according to RIT. Got it. I Evan. I don't know anything about our ability to use Google Docs or initiate Google Docs but I do think that that's a really good suggestion to use a feature like that because you know I reviewed the updated draft and I certainly had a couple of comments and I was thinking to myself how are we going to do this if everyone has even just four or five comments it would take a long time to sort of go around the room in a virtual meeting and each outline them and all of that kind of stuff so I think that that might be a really efficient way for everyone to share their comments on their own time is as well in case they can't attend one of these meetings. So that's a great idea I think. Right. Monika. Yeah it just comes up a lot in the activities that I have to do in my department as well and we do have some way of using. So Microsoft Teams you can't use and you know you can't have external people outside of state government sort of should do the sharing of documents but you can in SharePoint right. So you can have a SharePoint site that lets external people come in and use them and I don't know that we ever actually looked at getting a SharePoint location or if David ever did that I know at one point he was investigating lots of different things. SharePoint lets people from outside of state government as long as they're granted you know the permission ahead of time to go in and look at documents. So I'll talk to Anne Walker. Yeah I mean if everybody's OK using Google Docs. We're not allowed to use Google Docs. OK. That that I already know from Anne Walker and from David's share that this body is not allowed to use it. So we would have to use a different platform. Ask Anne if she could get a SharePoint like a SharePoint site and then you have to get permissions for external parties to use it. OK OK. Witchie. Something also worth considering if we just want to do this a little faster and you're allowed to use Microsoft. I can possibly like for one of us who's external to the government can just start a Microsoft online document and just share that link and make it accessible by by link if we want to just like circumvent bureaucracy just putting that out there. I usually like circumventing bureaucracy. I'm not sure what we're supposed to do given that this is a legislative body. And so that this is Robin. So that's what the issue is a public an open meeting law. Yeah. So why wouldn't Susanna's Task Force come under that same. Because. Because we created by executive order and we're advised we do the governor so it's considered privileged and confidential. Oh. See I thought we could Google because it's not a secure platform. That's my understanding of why we couldn't use Google. Well let me let me specify let me specify our meetings are designated as being open to the public. So we did follow all the meeting open meeting protocols whenever we could. And when we couldn't it was fine because we technically didn't have to. Anyway when it came to the Google doc again it was a matter of equity and we just we did it and there you go. I said it on a recorded meeting we did it. I do think we would just have I mean again I don't know anything about the platforms we are and are not allowed to use as state workers. I just use what they give me but regardless of what we use I mean I think it's it's more a matter of the public records rather than open meetings law when it comes time to the actual document. So if if we're going to be you know sharing sharing drafts as a group as opposed to our own individual work product we would just want to make sure that we keep those drafts in the event we get a public records request. I. SharePoint does that it actually has drafting. Right. It has versions and stuff so anyway we can probably go on about this for a long time. Well but no it's an important point particularly as writing the final you know we're six weeks out from that. So that's an important point. I. Go ahead. And I think it could also help sort of and again I don't want to assume what was and was not on the agenda but it might also help dictate what we have what we have to cover today because if one of the primary points was to go over this latest draft but then we decide that a good way to do that would be just to use this sort of SharePoint site or whatever else we use that might help us structure the rest of this evening's conversation. I that isn't the entire agenda but yes that part I will check in with Anne Walker. Who works in the Attorney General's Office and knows all things about everything and I I'll check with her tomorrow and try to think of a way of doing this. It will likely mean learning for some of us a new system because it's not going to be Google Docs. We're we've been through this. I'm just letting you all know we went through this with the first report the very first report that we wrote. We went through this and Google Docs is not allowed. So that's not going to happen. But there are other platforms and I will. I'll ask Anne she'll she'll know something. She'll know something anything else. Just wanted to say I appreciate y'all taking that into consideration. They don't want to you know figure out the meeting but appreciate the discussion on it. No it's important witchy. I mean you know it's a good suggestion. Thank you. What I wanted to start with was more a discussion or a description. Karen I had asked you but I mean Robin I get you know feel you data people about the integration plan. I thought it would be good to just at least get a sense of what that is tonight. It won't take us the full time and then I will work with Anne Walker starting I hope tomorrow to get everything else up online even though you've got stuff now. So Karen do you want to talk or Robin or whoever wants to start about the data integration plan. Sure you want to go Robin. Well why don't you tell them the good news. OK I actually forgotten we had good news. This is good news. We have good news. We have good news. It's always fun. So I talked to our NCJRP TA group this week last week. This week it's Monday. Karen. Next week. Karen can I enter. I'm sorry to interrupt. Can I ask that we like I'm so acronym working for the state. I really need to have it like out what that means. I will do that. Yeah sorry about that. So Vermont has been working with a technical assistance team and the project is called the National Criminal Justice Reform Project NCJRP and we're working with the National Governors Association and the National Criminal Justice Association on this project and we've been working with them for several years now. They have funded a project. It went from a pretrial service project to a different project and I'm not going to go into all the details of that. But one of the things that has remained constant through all the conversations is this idea of having data governance and data integration. So when Arnold Ventures is funding the project and when they had us write a plan for the funding one of the primary and key pieces of the plan was to have some data and part of it be a data integration project and we put in some funding for a project coordinator and the project coordinator position was initially something else but we changed the scope to be a person out of the enterprise unit of the Agency of Digital Services to help with the coordination of doing the data integration work and I can talk about the work in a minute. The scope change was submitted oh God probably a few months back and we just got word last week that they've accepted the scope change for that funding and DPS can now hire someone from the Agency of Digital Services to do the coordination of the data integration work for the National Criminal Justice Reform Project. So this is big news for us because we've been waiting to hear about this for a while and that our TA team we have one person from the National Governance Association and one person from the National Criminal Justice Association in talking with them. They are the folks that are also funding Mo West who came and talked to us earlier as we just got the they talked to the whole ARDAP team just before the study committee was put together. He's from SIRCH which is the National national experts on criminal justice data integration and data sharing and so they're funding him to work with us and then we'll have the local person from the Agency of Digital Service to work with us as well. And what they've offered is that it's kind of a combined project with ARDAP. So the data integration piece is data integration for the National Criminal Justice Association project but also for ARDAP. So we we have some funding to do this. The next steps in the process I think actually we've talked with ADS Agency of Digital Service quite some time ago and they have a person that they've identified that's within their enterprise unit to to work on the project. What now has to happen is an extension of all the contracts that they have. So the one with Department of Public Safety and the one with us at Crime Research Group and then once the DPS contract is done with the National Governors Association then Department of Public Safety and Agency of Digital Service will have to do some kind of agreement so DPS can actually hire the person out of their office or pay for that person to work with the the groups. So we're getting closer. I don't know how long these it'll take to put these agreements in place but there will be a person out of the Agency of Digital Service that can help us that will be committed to doing. And I think it'll be I think the amount of funding can fund a half-time person for up to a year which is you know not a bad thing it'll get us a good start. So that's that's the good news. Well we'll have some. And if I were a betting person I would say that the contracting process with state government and the bill that has yet to be written will be done it like the bill will pass and the contracts might be signed. At the same time. That's an optimistic view from Robin which is you know always an interest. But so I mean the good thing is is that this is not dependent on the legislation passing this session. So this work is going to go on no matter what they do. Monica you have a question. Well actually I wanted to ask I wasn't sure if people knew because Karen mentioned the Department of Public Safety a few times and I wasn't sure if people were aware that that the NCJRP project that that she's referencing kind of started with and is sort of housed there. They are really like the fiscal agent for the project which I think I think it's important for people to know like that there is a Department of Public Safety connection here and maybe that wasn't you know maybe that was clear when Mo came I'm just I'm just not really sure and I'm very excited that we have that coordinator position and I think it could influence the way we talk about how the work could be presented in the report as well knowing that that's going to happen at this point. Witchie. Yeah maybe I'm missing contact here because I'm out of the loop and I came in a little bit later but I was just wondering how does that data integration project really to our report and hope for criminal justice statistics. Sure so the data integration project that that we talked about for this report and for the national criminal justice project is actually the same thing that right now there's a lot of data sharing that does go on but we need somebody from from ADS and the reason why we're starting with ADS is because they're responsible for most of the data that that we want for this project right the only one the only data set that's outside of ADS is jurisdiction right now is the judiciary. So Monica her staff are ADS the Department of Public Safety which is how you would extract all the police data. Their staff are ADS DCS has their own ADS staff that help with their data systems so ADS is the coordinating agency. It builds the bridges that you need to create to the data sets to have the analysis done outside of you know by the independent groups. It's not going to be a system where you go and you know sit down at a computer and write a query that's going to reach across all avenues of state government to give you an answer. That's not going to happen but this is going to build the bridges across the data systems and do the crosswalking and say that you know in Monica's jail tracker system or the offender management system the last name is a free text form 10 characters long but in the judiciary it's 15 characters long so how do we make it work. That's the sort of nuts and bolts of the stuff that it's going to get so that the the Bureau the office of social justice statistics can have the data that needs to do its job. Does that answer. Yeah that that that answers a lot so basically that's like a step in stone towards having the data warehouse sort of like getting that that leg up without setting the great awesome. That's amazing congratulations. Thank you. Evan you have your hand up Evan. I do have my hand up and I don't know whether or not the answer to this question is known but I see that the Department of State's attorneys is one of the entities from which deliverables might be expected and so I wasn't sure whether or not the process for engaging with all of the individual state entities that might have to produce information has been established yet. I'm just trying to figure out like whether or not I need to be proactive in reaching out to someone or engaging with our in-house I.T. person or whether or not it's really going to be engagement with A.D.S. and then we'll just find out when we're needed sort of thing. Well I think you're still stuck on that committee so you're still have to go to those meetings when we have them. Oh I'll be there. I'll be there. Some of it might just go. But as far as yeah so as far as the nuts and bolts of it again we have to get through the whole contracting process with the state. So just you're right now everyone's membership on that committee and that's that's all that's needed right now. Does that does that make sense. Yeah that's that's great thanks for answering that question. Sure. I'm I'm curious in in what we've written so far the four positions that we suggested for the staffing of the office are architect engineer analyst and project manager. This is all something different correct. Yes. Thank you. It could be. Yeah. I mean I think this is a discussion we should have though not tonight that yes what do you want the engineer to engineer and what do you want the architect and in social in the office to to architect. And I think that when those are defined a little bit better then the the relationship between the two might become clear. I think I think it's a more fluid relationship right now. OK. OK. Thank you. Yeah. Monica. Yeah I think that's an area where we're where as this progresses and as we start to think about this report that we may want to I don't know think about these words and these positions a little bit differently knowing that I think Karen mentioned at one of our previous meetings particularly with with ADS now you know officially sort of putting an architecture together like they have people who are going to be doing that. And so are we thinking about how are we describing these words or these positions and if if they're really going to be the right positions I've I've still wondered that and I wonder that even more now that the NCG RP project is going to be moving forward we may we may decide we don't need an architect or an engineer but we need another analyst. Yeah. So. And Monica what at what point in the government hierarchy do you get your own ADS person. So like. Oh you know I'm not sure like at the department level so I mean it depends ADS has a bunch of different people OK right so departments have IT managers and these I the IT manager sort of act as you know the go-betweens between the department the department needs and and then other structures within ADS in terms of you know who runs the architecture who runs the servers who does a lot of the the back of the house kind of like running of wires and putting things together. Our team managers don't do that but different divisions within ADS do that and each department and I think this is what DPS is is working on right. We have our own sort of agreement with ADS. It's like a service agreement. This is what you're going to do for us and essentially this is how much we we pay you as a department. That's why Karen and that's why this project needed money because ADS needed resources for it. So then I think it's like an asterisk somewhere that where this ends up ADS may already be there. Right. Or that so to go back to those job descriptions some of that may be covered by a person from ADS in that department. But the other agreement. Right. The department the department itself would need funds to pay that ADS. To pay ADS. So I think that's something that should be considered in the legislation and then also that whole big thing about wherever you put it because if it goes outside of state government I mean sorry if it goes to like the Secretary of State's office he doesn't fall under ADS so then you're going to need somebody to talk to ADS. Right. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Which. I just want to make a note on sort of like those four just four positions. I do I do think that it's having more to do with responsibility rather than having position. I do think in my opinion those are the baseline responsibilities for building a warehouse whether they're outsourced or they're given to ADS and with an apartment or like they're hired in. But those are the baselines and I would highly recommend you don't go less than that. You can look for ways to make it cheaper but but don't go less than that because that'll that'll make the project really lag. It's it's currently worded as this office should initially be staffed as follows and have the following responsibilities. Architects. Engineer. Analyst. Project manager. It's not it's not really positions. Got it. And I'm happy to be the one to like write in a little bit more about what those responsibilities mean and add some tech. Like. That's good because and after we get this on SharePoint it'll be easy. So. Yes. Thank you. Thank you Wiggy. Wiggy and I think when you read the the proposed statewide justice information sharing governance structure structure as as we've been calling it here the infrastructure governance group I think some of the thinking that we've been having around this at least at the National Criminal for the National Criminal Justice Reform Project. And what we've shared with our DAP you'll see a little bit more of the thinking through this. And this is something that Mo actually helped write. Actually Mo primarily wrote it. And he did some data he did the data infrastructure work for the state of Washington. So this is kind of we learned from him NCJRP. Our core team learned from him as to what actually data integration means and how you do it. It took me you know it says you if you repeat something seven times you might get it and it probably took me more like 10 times to get it. But I finally can say it succinctly which I'm happy about because I couldn't repeat these three pages of words actually. But you'll get you'll get a sense of of where the thinking is and basically just for everybody it's about having a governance team that really focuses on the infrastructure and the data elements that need to be developed and acquired and then really looking at and what does that governance committee do. So the plan talks about having a charter having an inventory of current justice technology having looking at data needs and requirements doing an information sharing gap analysis which Evan I think about you every time I think of gap analysis like what can and what can we get out of your system and what can't we get out of your system and how do we you know is there something we need from you that we need to figure out. The strategic plan for technology and then he goes on to talk about you know the the policy committee and what policies have to be developed around this. The deliverables for that committee which is the charter. The interagency agreement or MOU and the strategic plan and then having a data requirements committee. So what data do we actually need and how do we get that from the different departments and there's a set of deliverables for that group as well. And then there's the architecture committee. So it goes right along with what you put in there for responsibilities for staff and responsibilities. And the architecture committee obviously figuring out what does the integration architecture need to look like. And then I added to this the staff support which is that position at the Agency of Digital Services and there's a description in there of just what we suggested this person the qualifications this person needs to have and and what they would be doing to help coordinate all these activities. And that's one of the reasons I didn't pull together a smaller group to talk about this because we really need that person that staff person from ADS to help us kind of coordinate all these activities. So and I think this is with you what Robin wants to talk with you more about in detail. And I think that will having your thoughts about this will be really helpful. I'll make a point to read it before then. Thank you Karen. You're welcome. Any other comments or questions. I had one because Karen your last comment was actually one of my questions about the updated draft that Atom put together which was like when are we supposed to be engaging with ADS about this. You know I don't want to like start making decisions and then realize shoot you know what we decided is not possible practical or any other word to that effect. So it sounds like it sounds like you think that that that time might be on the horizon. Well they've actually so so there is an ADS staff person that works with the Department of Public Safety and he's been a part of many of these conversations. And at one point and Kristin McClure has actually she's she's the Chief Data Officer. She's also been part of these been in part of these conversations. So they're aware this is going on. We've already had conversations with them about how much it would cost for the person in their enterprise unit. That's how I know it's going to be about half time for a year or more time for less than a year. So they've been engaged peripherally around this and they they know that this is moving forward and that we've been waiting to hear about this funding. I'm trying to think if I've told anybody about the funding yet except you all. But Chris Herrick is the Deputy Commissioner over at DPS is the person that kind of has been leading the charge on the NCJRP project and working closely with Darwin. So they're aware. But Evan are you thinking about you're about to buy a new system and you don't want to buy a system that's not going to play. No I know I know I wasn't thinking about that. I was I was you know in the in the draft we've got like these diagrams that talk about where the data is going to come from and then there is a reference to the data integration and information plan and it referenced all executive branch data that's controlled by ADS and that just thought to me. Oh I I don't think I had heard from you know I don't think we had had anyone from ADS as part of these calls and it just occurred to me when should we start engaging with them. Oh I see. We did before you joined. Okay okay yeah and so our talk with Kristen McClure resulted in one of those spaghetti maps in the last report. So yes they were engaged here. She is invited to these but hasn't been able to make it I guess. But she was she was she is aware of this. And I also I think and I was just looking back on the report I think to you know ADS's involvement and how they're involved really does kind of depend on where the office is situated. And so that that has to be a question that's answered whether or not we answer it but somebody is going to have to answer it and then their role either is as another partner or as you know really is people who are going to be building it. Yeah. They're going to build it for the NCGIRP project regardless it sounds like. Anything else Karen do you need is there is there any point in I mean as Robin says Kristen's I mean she's copied on every email that goes out to the working group. Is there any point in making another I mean I've made several formal overtures. Is there a point in doing that again. I think now that the funding has been approved I think it's worth having a conversation with her about how the National Criminal Justice Reform Project and ARDAP interface with each other around the data integration piece. I think that would be a good conversation to have with her just to give her kind of a heads up on that. Okay. Okay. Do you want me to pull something together. That would be lovely if you would because I seem to be unsuccessful chronically. Well I'm not saying I'll be any more successful but I'll give it a shot. How's that. That would be lovely. Thank you. Okay. And and who should be at that at that meeting. Well it would be a whole lot. I'm oh Monica's going by Monica. I was hoping that we would it would be nice if it could be the working group I think wouldn't it. Sure. I mean that's my hope it'd be us. I'm not sure she's going to come to a 6 o'clock meeting. I think that may be one of the the issues here but I can ask her for some dates that she's available and just send them out to the working group and see who can join us or do a doodle poll with the time she's available. Okay I'll do that. Thank you. Sure. That would be great. Because yeah I we certainly moved into that section. That is the other thing. I mean that's one of the big. This was one big unknown. The other big unknown is still where are we putting us. That that's those are the two still. There is like there's more to this as of now. Then there was a week ago but so the the one thing that's still the big really not yet ironed out although we have talked about is where it goes and that has to get ironed out. In fact Representative LaLonde asked today if there had been progress. I said well there's been progress that doesn't mean we have an answer. You know those two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. So that's something we need to work on. I also want to just mark that for us in our minds because one of the things that we had promised to do starting with this meeting going forward is keeping a running list of major questions that need to be brought to the full body at the full meetings. And for me this is like at the top. And I think everyone is sick and tired of talking about it and I'm really sorry but we're going to have to talk about it. Has there been any has anyone because I wasn't able to attend a couple of these. Has anyone proposed and a home that that already exists aside from the agency of administration. Secretary of State. Got it. But as Robin points out there are some problems with that. Well has anyone asked the secretary. I'm sorry. Has anyone asked the secretary of state. In a very like oh here we are at Hanifords and do you have a moment kind of way. It hasn't been there hasn't been the formal conversation yet. That is in the offing however. Yeah because right if it goes to his office in particular or I think at some point the defender general had also suggested the auditor's office. They're going to have their own staffing needs. So whatever you put in right they're going to want to have a say in that. Right. So and of course the other thing for all of us to bear in mind is this is all going to look incredibly different after it goes through the meat grinder that is the legislature. Whatever we recommend it's all going to look very very different. But thank you Karen and Robin and congratulations. Thanks. So that is really that was the main focus this evening. I would have liked had I been able to get things out to you earlier to have talked about the mission statement that did not happen. I'm not going to apologize again. You're tired of it. But I will speak with Ann Walker tomorrow and look into these different platforms for getting it online. The one thing that I would like to say Elizabeth is really sort of towards you I'm haunted personally by frankly really like our first report which didn't you were really good about saying so much of there's so much overlap between the adult criminal justice system and a lot of stuff that goes on for juveniles. I mean I remember you're saying that last week in reference to a couple points that were brought up. I still have this lingering concern. It just doesn't feel like we're doing it right. And I would really like to just sort of encourage you as soon as we get this online could you attack what's there. I mean thank you. I would I would really I just wanted to make a point of saying that because I don't like how I worded it. I really don't like how I worded it. You're muted. I'm reading your lips. Was it my headphones. Does that work. Yeah I think I should use headphones the speaker doesn't work on them but I would be more than happy to attack it and I think there are phones are there in the report I think it just needs to be emphasized in certain ways that for instance when we're talking I know Monica's left but when we're talking about something to do with DOC that we're remembering YOs and all of those different pieces. So I think it just needs someone to go through and kind of really emphasize those pieces and pull it out. I'm happy to do that and I can I can have actually that to Tyler as well so the two of us can address it. Okay great. Thank you. That's just the big thing that has been way I've just sort of looking at it going. There you know there are you know to your point there are very there there are differences in the JJ world in comparison to the adult side and you know all of the same entities have have some relationship with juveniles and it just needs to be just needs to be pulled out in the report so I'm happy to do it. Okay great thank you. And that's all I have for tonight. That's all I have. Does anyone else have anything that they would like to bring up put in? Thank you again to Karen and Robin for well congratulations and thank you for I mean that that's a huge piece of the project I think. Well it's just it's another step in in in the right direction that we're all going in so I think that's just makes it helpful. I was wondering Eitan if it might be worth talking about and I'm not sure it is but but let me throw it out there. Robin put together you know we've had a couple conversations and Robin put together just a brief sheet for you to look at around the way the human trafficking task force and steering committee are put together that really involves could be I mean I'll say massive amounts of people on the task force and with the conversation that people had last week about the list of 35 entities that should be involved in this somehow I was wondering if throwing that out there today and just and just as an idea might be worth it so people can consider that. Sure I okay I is this the document that's entitled Task Force? Yes and we I don't think we sent that out to anybody but I thought maybe Robin could just talk a little bit about how that task force is put together just to give people an idea of how do we involve as many people as possible because there's so many people interested in this work so how do we do that without putting them all on this steering committee. Go ahead Robin. Yeah so this was just my own idea and I'm you know as I was listening to everybody last week and that whole who's on a who's on a committee so the human trafficking task force is organized differently than Susanna's task force it's not by executive order it's actually just they had some external funding but they've just been around for a very long time they were actually one of the first task forces to tackle human trafficking in the country and the steering committee is co-chaired by three people a representative from the U.S. Attorney's Office a therapist who works with with victims and survivors and I don't know where Cindy McGuire is now I thought she was with the AG's office but she may have moved on to somewhere else but so and then the people who sit on the steering committee are who you you know who you would expect representatives from service providers and victims advocates some law enforcement DCF a few other people and then there's this huge task force and one of the reasons why I kind of like their meetings is that I actually get to see people I don't normally see at all I come across at all in my work so one time I'm sitting next to a nun and we were chatting about you know how her church you know works in this area and what you know she was there to learn how to identify human trafficking in the people that she served and all of the the larger task forces all self-selected and they tend to do these quarterly meetings and the first part of the meeting is instructive so you know some of the things I thought about for you know this this group for social justice and social equity would be about you know have a dispatcher come in and show you the screens how do they get what happens when that 911 call happens how do they deploy a vehicle how does the data even get entered so then everybody knows what the government is collecting when they do this and you can have that transparency and maybe get a chance for other people to participate and have questions inform those questions they also have within this larger task force self-selected subcommittees and those subcommittees deal with for human trafficking education housing the Conservices but again it's self-selected topics and self-selected membership and you do just get a wider variety of people who can participate without having that long list of people in a legislation that somebody's going to invite and I think that this is an important enough issue that making it open to as many Vermonters as possible to have a say to end this or to you know have more transparency in our government is a is a is a different way to approach it that's my soapbox I liked that thank you yeah I I I didn't know I was supposed to get that out I'm sorry no no you didn't you didn't know we you didn't know okay okay but that's a good idea so let I will put that up too if I might as soon as I'm assuming that this is not hard this putting things up on a online platform I'm assuming this is easy and I'm assuming that because I want to assume it because otherwise I feel sort of self-destructive so I'm assuming this is going to be very easy and I will put that document all these documents up on there and I'm sure there are ways of indicating which ones are for editing and which ones are for reading and I will work at getting that all done so thank you Robin for that because is a problem that is a problem and it was one that came up after last week's work so thank you uh anything else no okay well thank you for another successful meeting I will be in touch as I can be and as I need to be and I will again talk I'll let you know what happens in my phone call with representative along tomorrow I'll send out a note and we'll go from there and that's it all right sure thank you witchy thank you everybody all right good night thank you night