 Good afternoon and welcome to Channel 17 Town Meeting Television. We are so pleased to be starting our collection coverage for the general election on November 6th, and we're pleased that you could join us here for the Williston Forum. We have with us today Joy Limoge, and Kathleen O'Ryan, and Terry McCaig, and Jim McCullough. And Terry and Jim are incumbents, and they are being challenged for two seats. So we are very happy to have you all here. Thank you, and we invite your calls at 862-3966. And perhaps Megan can turn the audio monitor down, because the echo is a little distracting. So please feel free to give us a call, as I said, at 862-3966. All right, so we're going to start with opening statements. And Joy Limoge, could you tell us why you're running and what experience you bring to the position? Thank you for having me. My name is Joy Limoge, and I'm running for state representative because I want to make a difference. I've lived in Vermont most of my life, and I'm a 20-plus-year resident of Williston, having served on numerous boards and the town band planning commission, and currently serving my second term on the select board. I'm a practicing attorney with offices in Williston handling residential and commercial real estate, uniform commercial code law, and I have the privilege of serving as general counsel for a number of area businesses. I've watched a steady and continual rise in taxes over the past years with no changes in sight. And unless we change our current leadership and bring back some balance into state government, there will be no change in the continual rising cost of living. I'm running to make a difference in bringing back prosperity to Vermonters. Thank you very much for that concise opening statement. Kathleen O'ryan, why are you running and what qualifies you for the legislative seat of Williston? At the time that I made the decision to run, there were two incumbents, a Democratic party, and nothing. So I decided, oh boy, I just wanted to jump right in there and run, so I did. And my qualifications are that I'm a former member of the Green Party National Committee, and I did run in Virginia when I lived there for the exact same position in Virginia. It was a much bigger deal, although I did manage to get 30% from someone who had been in politics his whole life and his family in politics their whole lives all the way back, generations. I don't really have a whole lot more to say, I don't think right now. Are there issues in particular that are driving you? Yes. Okay, well we'll hear about them I think when we go to the questions. Wonderful. Terry McKay, why are you running for reelection to the House? Well thank you for having us for him, channel 17 and you. So I'm a 52 year resident of the town of Williston, and I'm giving back to the town for over 40 years. As a, in the Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, the little, the year old softball, 27 years as the town health officer, 17 years on the select board in Williston, 13 in the past, the past 13 as the chair of the select board. I've been president of the Williston Historical Society and I think my voting record will show that I deserve to be re-elected. I've been a state representative now for 10 years. I have a 100% record on environmental issues, same thing on labor issues including the minimum wage and family leave, which we passed last year but was vetoed. I have a good record on equal pay for equal work for clean water and air, economic development and affordability, renewable energy, climate change, medically assisted treatment for our criminal population and as well as some consumer protection things. So I think I'd like to continue working on most of those issues. Thank you so much. Jim McCullough, why are you running for reelection? Hi, Lauren. Thank you very much for inviting Representative McKagan myself and the rest of us here today. I'm standing for reelection to the House of Representatives from Williston because I have experience in the town of Williston. I understand the values of my constituents in the town, my neighbors, the people I live and work with. I've lived in Williston, as we say, all my life so far and have served actually the town since the 60s on various committees, commissions, positions and so on. I have a real understanding, I think, of what Williston people want and I believe that that fits really well with what I want. My environmental record is spotless in the state of Vermont. My economic development one is as well with the promotion specifically of renewable energy some years ago, which has been driving our bus here in many different ways economically as well as importantly. So I am doing a good job, I'm having a good time and I really do hope everyone else supports that thesis. All right, thank you very much. I just want to remind our viewers you can feel free to give us a call at 862-3966 if you have questions for the candidates running for the house, the Vermont house from, which district is it? Chittenden 2. Chittenden 2 to the Vermont legislature. So Kathleen, we're going to start with you. This is a question about the economy. According to Forbes magazine, Vermont's economic outlook is projected to be the second worst in the U.S. over the next five years while income growth is expected to lag behind the rest of the country. Do you agree with this assessment and what do you recommend as a plan of action to strengthen Vermont's economic outlook? So I did not mention this, but another factor in my deciding to run was the fact that the president was asking his supporters to run and when I found that out that really is what pushed me into this. As far as the economy goes, I believe it was yesterday or possibly the day before, NAFTA is gone now and there is a new treaty, I'm not sure what it would call it, but it's an agreement between Mexico, the United States and Canada in which I believe the tariff barriers will be coming down. I'm not sure about that, but basically it's a union for the purpose of saving everybody tariff money and helping the three different nations to trade easily and fairly. So the reason why I chose to run was primarily because I was asked to and in each instance that I've run I have been asked to do so. As far as the actual economy goes, I believe that having the tariffs and the barriers to trade reduced will help. I can't see anything but good coming from that. I'm not an expert in the economy, but that seems to me to be a very good reason to believe in the future. Okay, thank you very much. Terri McCaig, what's your view on how to create a sustainable economy in Vermont? So unless we do something different, we will do what Forbes says we're going to do. So we need to work on economic development, which we have done in the past number of years. We also need to work on workforce development to train our younger folks in the jobs that are essential and they're very much needed right now in the state. We also need to work on giving people better pay, good pay, which goes along with the minimum wage increase. The proposal was to increase it to 15 bucks an hour in 2024. So we're not talking about tomorrow or the next year, but we're talking about a process. Also, we need to think about giving people benefits. Why won't people come to Vermont? Because we're not giving them what they need. We're not giving them good pay or benefits. So if we do that, I think we can reverse the trend that we have seen in the past number of years and present Forbes from being right. Alright, thank you very much. Jim McCullough, your action plan for Vermont's economy. Well, first, before the action plan, I'm going to address the source. Forbes Magazine represents the part of the rigged system that does not work for people in this country, and I would say does not work specifically for Vermonters. I read once in Forbes Magazine that I'm supposed to be earning 10 times as a wage, 10 times my age. My goodness, a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. Well, maybe not quite that old. So I discount their projection from Vermont right now as one of the best unemployment records in the country. We have some of the best educational outcomes in the country. And yes, our governor has vetoed a number of bills that would be attracting young talent into this country, minimum wage, paid family leave. Sick leave. These are things that turn our economy around with bright young minds from people from out of state and keep bright young Vermonters in state. And that coupled with an aggressive approach to our renewable energy, which is going to continue to help solve climate change, Forbes will be scratching their head and going, what happened with that one? Thank you so much. I think that Vermont has a spending problem and a regulation problem, pure and simple. We continue to raise our taxes beyond what is sustainable. And I'd like to see Vermont become more business friendly, less overly regulated, and spending reigned in. We actually have a $60 million surplus, yet our legislators continue to push for more taxes, including my two opponents. I note that almost every question presented to us to review tonight involves more spending, and we simply can't be doing that anymore. I'd like to get rid of the duplicative spending, reduce burdensome and unnecessary regulation, overhaul existing programs, and provide adequate oversight to thereby lowering spending and alleviate the need for raising taxes. And how would you make some difficult decisions about what to cut? I'm not talking about cutting so much as looking at the programs that are out there and finding out what's duplicative, what's working, what's not, and readjusting that. I think by doing that, you're going to find you actually have more money that you need that can be allocated to other issues that are at hand. Thank you. Let's take this call. Good evening. Do you have a question for the candidates? Yes, I do have a question. First of all, I'd like to say that I'm happy to hear one of the candidates referred to cutting cost in Williston and in Vermont, as opposed to simply pouring more taxes at the issues that are perceived and real. In some cases, I've heard a lot of... Do you have a question? Yes. My question is, what exactly are we looking to do with taxes in the state of Vermont, and what type of programs will be offered to cut costs for those that are already here, rather than focusing on those that are not here yet? And what taxes in particular are you concerned about? Property tax. I would also say that the room and meals tax in the state of Vermont affects a lot of people that are deciding whether to go out to eat or not at over 10%, which I think is ludicrous. Any type of taxes that are on consumables? Any way to help families cut the expenditures from their hard-earned income? All right. Thank you very much for calling. We're going to start with you, Terry, on that question. So, how would you approach cutting taxes making for more affordable for working families? So, if you're going to cut taxes, then you're going to cut programs and have to decide what programs are not essential to folks in the state of Vermont. The caller said he was not interested in the people who might be coming to Vermont, the people that he's interested in, the people that are here. If you look at the sales and use tax here, it's not unusual. It's not exorbitant. It's less than, certainly in New York state. It's certainly less than Massachusetts. It's higher than New Hampshire because I don't have it. But if you go out to eat in New Hampshire, you'll find out you're paying essentially the same thing for the tax rate there for so-called bed and belly taxes. So, I don't think we're that far off. I'd be happy to hear what the caller has to say about what he's like to seek cut. He was talking about property taxes, rooms and meals, and consumables. And the property tax is really dependent upon your own town as to how much you want to spend on education. So, it's a self-inflicted wound, essentially. There's only so much money in the education fund, and we all know what that is. In the town school board's budget, what they think is proper, and the citizens vote either up or down. So, Jim, there's a concern here about spending and manifested in tax rates. Right. So, what's your approach to this question of how can we spend less? Well, I'm a business person, Lauren, and I have learned throughout the years of that you only can cut so much and stay in business. And the state of Vermont is incredibly frugal in spite of the urban legend that we're hearing from people from time to time. The education tax is really the tax I think the caller is calling about. The state aid to education, we're working on that with Act 46 with consolidating throughout the town regions for education. I believe that's going to be bearing fruit and will help the cost of the state aid to education. Rooms and meals tax is totally discretionary, and also I would point out is important for Vermonters because people come here as a tourist state and help us pay for our government. As far as helping Vermonters versus be here versus people away, I think giving $10,000 to people who would like to move here was a grandstand move by the governor, and we really should be helping people who live here, like our Vermont National Guard, which we voted to help them with their education taxes. So, we're always looking under rocks. Thank you very much. Joy Lomosh. I go back to the comment I just made. I don't think it's necessarily about cutting programs. I think it's about looking at seeing what's working and what isn't, what's duplicative, what's not. Like I said, there's a $60 million surplus sitting in the state right now, and as far as I'm concerned, the caller was correct. There should have been some tax relief of some sort going back to Vermonters. Thank you very much. Kathleen O'Ryan, your view on tax policy in Vermont and what could we be cutting? Well, I think to look at it in terms of cutting, rather than realizing what's going on nationally, through the president who is bringing the economy back to life, who is right now probably running, regardless of what CBS, NBC, and the rest of the so-called mainstream news is saying, I believe that the actual fact is that he is vastly supported. And one of the reasons for that is that he is trying his very best to get us back in gear again, and he is succeeding. So like I said, that was really my whole reason for running is that I am an ardent Trump supporter. And as far as this state goes, I believe we started off with a negative premise, if I remember correctly your statement. So I don't really believe that that's necessary. I do know that the economy right now, there is in Vermont right now, that I think the unemployment is at less than 10%, maybe even less than 6%. So we don't really need to worry about that part. As far as taxes go, I don't know a whole lot about taxes, frankly. I know that you pay a lot of them the more money you make, but I'm just in here to sort of fill the space and occupy time and space and try to do my best. I think the unemployment rate is 2.8%. Yeah, right. So Lauren, a redirect if I could. I'd like to talk about the governor's idea of two years ago, and it's just resurfaced today at this table, that we can find money that we need through efficiencies and duplicative programming. And that's what the governor ran on two years ago. And those dollars have not been found. And a good point, a case in point is, he closed down the taxation, which happens every three years for the fee bill. That's not finding duplicative monies or programs. We're borrowing money for water quality because he couldn't find money to pay the water quality bills. And the $60 million? Good business says spend it on past due debt, not on short-term pleasure, which was the legislature said we want to pay down past debt and save multiple millions over the years by doing that versus giving a check for $60 million out at the moment. Joy, do you want to respond? I do. Representative McCulloch. It's not just the governor who has to find that savings. It's the legislature as a whole. Your track record shows a continual pattern of anything that's taxation for revenue streams. That's just not going to work for Vermonters anymore. They can't afford anymore. I, too, am a business person continually looking at my bottom line, continually looking at how we're spending money and what's working and what's not, and continually making adjustments. As a legislature, as a whole body, you should be doing that, not looking to one person to provide those answers. So let's move on to the climate change question. How can Vermont turn climate change to its advantage? And, Jim, why don't we start with you? Fine. That's really kind of a good question for me because I try to turn everything into a silver lining. Climate change is hard to imagine how we can turn it into an advantage, but the resiliency that we're needing to discover for our rivers and streams and lakes is now being realized because of climate change, which is going to end up with better water quality statewide. Climate change is also brought forth the need for more and cheaper electricity, and that's working through renewable energies, as well as the need for better standards for insulation for businesses and homes. That's going to end up being a bonus of climate change for the state of Vermont. We have a real concern in the state that climate change is going to be bringing a lot of people up from the cities with second homes and even telecommuting homes, and that's going to be a huge issue because they sprawl through our woodlands around the state, and that's going to be driving, so we'll be driving the bus to protect our forests and our habitat and carefully direct that kind of growth. Thank you very much. Dr. Lamose. I approach this a little bit differently than Jim did. Vermont's known for its beautiful scenic beauty and outdoor pursuits, and so I was looking at this question as how our business is preparing, and I was looking at this more as I'm watching many of the large resorts make their businesses year-round, so it's a destination to come, and I kind of look back at this as Vermont has a long history of being resilient, and they will rise and adapt to this circumstance, and we will come out all right. Well, you agree on the resiliency part? Yes, we do agree on the resiliency. There's always some common ground somewhere. You find it. Kathleen or Ryan, how can Vermont turn climate change to its advantage? I don't believe in climate change. It's weather. Weather changes, deal with it. I don't really know what the question behind that question is. Maybe you could clarify that for me. Well, it's, I think it hinges on believing that there is such a thing as climate change, that there is an inexorable change in the warming of the climate, and that that has impact on... I'm sorry, go ahead. Well, I'm just saying, just the assumption behind this is that that is a true thing, so which you can test. Right, well, so behind that then, there is a belief in global warming. That's been proven a fraud. It's just not true. I don't know what else to say about it. Yeah, so I think the question is, and snow melts, and Vermont's economy is based on that. Maybe they warm where you live, but where I live and most they get colder, it seems like. Got it. So I'm sorry, finish your sentence. No, that was really just to clarify the question. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So I think we're good, and we'll just ask Terry McKague what he thinks about their opportunities in climate change in Vermont. Well, Jim and Joy have talked a little bit about what I would have said, but I think we come from a state that has a lot of innovation over the course of the years. So I would look for our smart people to think about innovations that are needed to deal with what I perceive as happening. I do believe that the climate is changing. I do believe in global warming. I had a Siberian Husky when we first moved to Williston and at 20 below zero, she would go out and lie on top of a 10-foot snow bank. We don't have either of those anymore in this state. So along with the opportunities for our resort areas to accommodate people, tourists year-round and not dependent so much upon the cold weather, I think that's good, and Jim's comments are well taken as well. Thank you very much. So why don't we start then with... Oh, you answered that question. Did you answer the question? Yeah, I did that one. That's right. So, okay. Sorry, I'm sorry. So we are going to start with Joy. I think that's right. Am I right? Yes. Okay. So let's take the opioid epidemic. Are you making a dent in the local opioid epidemic and what do you think needs to happen next? I actually don't believe we're making a dent in the opioid crisis. The answer is not more services or safe rooms for shooting up. I believe we're creating an environment of crime that's being accepted and tolerated. It's not helping people, it's enabling them to continue on a dangerous path and it's all at taxpayer expense. I think there needs to be more oversight of the services offered, and I also believe there needs to be accountability for those who are breaking the law. Okay. Very good. Thank you, Kathleen. This is a sore point with me. Excellent. People that I know indirectly because they're neighbors of one sort or another, I don't want to go into that. We're pretty much openly manufacturing. I don't know what it was, but I do know that it required some sort of acid to produce it, and I attempted to call various people. I called, I walked into town one day and walked from office to office, and finally, as a last resort, I called the local police because I didn't want to have a police car in front of my place, which would alert these people. But actually that is finally what got them to leave. So anyway, I feel really strongly about this business very strongly. I don't know. Tolerance is not in my book. I know that. I just feel like these people are on the wrong path, and they need to be guided off of it somehow. And if they don't want to get off of it, well, then I don't want to be too hardhearted about it, but it feels a little bit like we're kind of babysitting them, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I'll pass it along to somebody else to answer. Okay. What do you think needs to happen next in fighting the opioid epidemic, and have we made any progress? So we made some progress. The governor is quite pleased with the hub and spoke systems that we have in place. We have decreased the waiting lists, essentially to zero here in Chittenden County, in Franklin County, which is helping the people who want to be cured of this addiction. We've also worked with the physicians in the past laws to say they should be limiting the amount of opioids that they're prescribing. That seems to be working. The medical community seems to be happy with the results of that. So we have made some progress. In the course of the future, for people who want to get off of the drugs, we're going to need to provide some more resources for them, whether that means facilities, I don't know, but we need to provide something for these folks so that they can get off of the drugs that they're on. And this also goes along with mental health facilities right now. We still have a problem with mental health facilities, and part of that is drug-related with line-ups and the ERs for days and days, maybe weeks at a time. So we need to start to think about addressing that. Thank you very much. Jim McCullough. Well, what Representative McKeggs said for sure, and I would add actually even his committee has made progress in the Department of Corrections for treatment, for inmates, for all manner of addictive issues. So the Fish and Game Commissioner of Texas, when he was talking about the wild hogs, he says, we can't barbecue our way out of this one because they're rampant down there. We don't have that problem, we have a rampant opioid problem, and we can't incarcerate. We cannot incarcerate our way out of this one. We can't hold that many people responsible, I think is what I heard here. We need to help them. We need to help them get their lives back. And where does that money come from? That could be a rhetorical question, but we will be looking at tax and regulate marijuana again in legislature, a new source of money, and the previous Senate versions have dedicated 100% of money to, well, highway safety, but otherwise to drug addiction problems of all types, not just marijuana, all types, as well as education and helping people become sober again for all types of addiction. Did you want to hop on that? I actually do. The first comment was, my understanding with the taxation of marijuana was that all that money was really going to, it was going back into the marijuana itself. There wasn't going to be excess money left to go over somewhere else, so unless I've mistaken about that, that was one point. The other one is, Vermont has one of the highest rates of babies addicted to opioids and heroin in the country. They're known as NAS babies, and we're only just beginning to see the long-term effect that that's causing and the rising costs. So I have a hard time sitting there saying, we're making a big dent on what's going on here. It seems to be getting worse, and that's one of the highest in the nation. All right, let's move on to the next question, if that's all right. Agriculture, Vermont's remaining dairy farms are in life support. How important is this issue for our state and what needs to be done? Kathleen? Yeah, well, this new agreement between Canada and our country and Mexico. Well, I'm assuming that it will remove tariffs. I'm not sure about that. I know in one particular instance, unfortunately, as far as the steel imports go, that's not going to happen from Canada, but I guess that's all I can say. Very good. Teri Mckay, your view on the future of dairy farming. So small dairy farms in Vermont are in trouble. I think there's no question about that. The legislature in the past, by name, last year actually set up a grant program for small farms that have had problems with the milk prices. So that's one way that we have dealt with on a very short-term basis and probably won't reoccur. So we have, with the President's new scheme, there are mixed reviews by farmers in Vermont, which read in the free press, I think, yesterday about that. So I'm not sure that that will help. But I think we need to look at diversification in agriculture for small farms. What else can they do? If they're not doing maple production, maybe they should be doing that. If they're not doing agriturism, maybe they should be doing that to bring in the dollars that they need in order to keep going. Christmas tree is you name it. There's a bunch of stuff that can be done for small farms in Vermont. Thank you very much. Jim McCullough, what should we be doing to support, or not support, dairy farms? Is this a thriving future for Vermont? Right. Dairy farming in Vermont is the iconic, the iconic activity. There used to be more cows than people. We were very proud of that. We still need more people in the state of Vermont, bright young minds to come in here and support our economy and grow our quality of life here in Vermont. The dairy farmers in Vermont are on life support. They are losing money every time they milk a cow. And it is, I believe, absolutely necessary for the state to continue to help dairy farmers with how they run their businesses through their agronomy programs with technical advice and the diversification. The University of Vermont is working very hard with farmers to do that as well. We have been talking about small farmers here. People would be amazed to know that we really only have a few large farm operations in Vermont. Most of them are medium, and the small farms are actually, I believe, the future of Vermont as the vertical integration of large dairies and even the large medium dairies needs to be gotten away from. It's a banker's business. Thank you very much. I'm going to remind folks to give us a call at 862-3966 if you have any questions for our candidates for the Williston Legislative seat. And Joy, why don't you tell us how important dairy farming is for our state and what you suggest? Jim, you're going to be delighted to hear me say I agree with about 85% of what you said and that it is the iconic background for Vermont. I think part of the problem that we're facing is the lack of regulation once again. I've watched firsthand as some of the farmers try to make their way through some of the grant processes or tax processes, and it's unbelievably onerous. I do think the new trade agreement is going to be a big help. All right. Thank you very much. All right, let's go on to a question about government effectiveness. And I think, Terry, we begin with you. How do you rate the effectiveness of Vermont state government and what criteria do you use when you ask that question? I think we could improve our decision-making when we decide to spend money and create new laws. Well, having worked in state government for 38 years, I think state government in general is doing what it needs to be doing. There are certain things that government should do, certain things that government shouldn't do. I think we have a pretty good balance in state government at this time. The governor in the last two years has been looking for efficiencies in state government, asking the employees themselves as to what needs to be done. And I think some minor things have been implemented in that time. The Appropriations Committee, I'm sure that people know that they examine every part of state government and they take a considerable amount of time to do that. They interview all of the commissioners, secretaries in state government, and then pursue questions on how efficient they are, how much is being spent on particular parts of government, and is anybody better off by this? So those are the criteria, some of the criteria that they use, and I think those are good. Some of the things that they will review and quite often they will agree with the governor on a number of issues that come before them and some they don't. And that's where the governor proposes and the legislature disposes. So I think in general we're doing okay. Thank you. The efficiency is not always the only metric we should be looking at. Sometimes we need to get away from efficiency and look at the end product. And if there's any, I believe, any reason to have a government, it's for the benefit of the people and taking care of the people. And our current governor has been very careful with his budget and our legislature has responded each year with no increases, no new taxes, and budgets get vetoed anyway for different reasons being held hostage, which we won't go into. But our governor has been very efficient and our Appropriations Committee very efficient. We were told if you're looking for $200, you better come in here with a good reason and how we're going to find that other $200 to replace it. That was last year. $200, really? When you get down to the end of the product, that's what it gets down to because Vermont has a balanced budget. The Douglas Administration rift a whole bunch of people making us a lot more lean and mean and I don't think the Schumann Administration really did a ton to replace those people. We have more people, less people doing more work and have had now for quite a few years. I'm not seeing a lot more efficiency. We save our rubber bands, actually, in the State House and reuse them. Thank you. How do you rate the effectiveness of Vermont State Government? I think that it could be more effective. I think there are a lot of personal agendas and party politics that take place to the detriment of Vermonters as a whole. And again, I go back to, I think there's a huge lack of oversight, especially on the spending. Anything more you want to say? What criteria would you use to make a decision about a bill? I think it's really important to look at how it affects Vermont as a whole, not just a particular region. So it's important for our legislators here today to be looking outside of Williston as well as looking within Williston itself. There's a lot of laws that get passed up in this portion of the state that are really, really difficult for the southern part of the state to do. So I think there needs to be a lot more of looking overall how this works. Thank you. Hi. So I wasn't aware that I could bring my notes, although I do remember working on this, but right now my mind is kind of blank. But I remember something about going back to the Constitution and where the money should go and then following that out to where it's going. But beyond that, I can't remember a thing, so I'm sorry. I'm a little new to all this. Okay. Very good. Thank you. Good afternoon. Good evening. You have a question for the candidates. So were the four candidates stand on state and federal term limits and whether they would support that initiative or where they stand in cases where there are no term limits in post? Okay. Thank you very much. Does anybody need clarification on that question while we have the caller on the phone? All right. Very good. Thank you for calling. All right. Why don't we start with you then, Jim? This is a popular popular question. The answer I have is we are talking and your question did state and federal. Our entire federal system is based on seniority and a freshman congressman or woman occupies oxygen space and a seat and struggles to get even recognized and as that person works their way through multiple re-elections and multiple years of service, then their seniority starts to count and gives them better positions in this which mean more effective spots to get business done. Term limits would totally upend that system and I don't see how it would improve it. In state legislature in Vermont we do not have a seniority system like that. However, there is a thing called accumulated knowledge and people I see people come in full of fire and you know what and discover it's not black and white that there are people who have been there who have institutional knowledge that can be really useful and so I don't support term limits for Fed or for the state of Vermont. Thank you very much. I think term limits are crucial to effective government. I think that without them you need the new blood that comes through. Government was designed to be a service. You're elected to serve for a period of time and then you go back to your regular job. So it wasn't meant to be a career and I think that without those term limits and without new ideas and new blood coming in you get stagnant and you get into that same old pattern. Thank you very much. Kathleen or Ryan where do you stand on state and federal term limits? I agree with both of the previous two speakers. On the one hand it's a good thing to know what you're doing. The original idea I was laid out by the founding fathers was that you put your plow down go work in the legislature and then come home and that's it. So as far as what I feel is that it seems like the more you're there the better you can be at it on the other hand. It's really a sticky issue because then on the other hand someone coming in who's fresh and been schooled and educated and knows what they're doing I think maybe that would be the solution to that problem. It seems like it carries a certain amount of weight. Thank you very much. Terry Mckague where do you stand on term limits for state and federal positions? So if the federal government and the legislature or congress decided that seniority no longer counted then I'd say fine until they do but I would go along with no term limits on the federal basis. If you look at the amount of funds that are brought into a small state like Vermont that probably wouldn't get any money if we didn't have a seniority system then we'd be in tough shape. So I would not support a term limit on the feds. In the state system we're up for reelection every two years and there's a term limit right there. So if somebody doesn't like what we're doing that takes care of of that. Now there are a number of places in the state both run by Democrats and Republicans that are not contested and that's too bad but that's the people's choice. Thank you very much. So Joy Lomage we'll start with you and also I'll just remind folks thanks so much for the calls we love them our numbers 8-6-2-3-9-6-6 we're speaking with candidates for the district of Williston the house seats there there are two open house seats and they're currently occupied by incumbents but they are in play and we are discussing different positions here related to those seats. So Joy Lomage could you talk to us about education and how do we maintain a quality of education with a declining school age population? I think that now is definitely the time to consolidate like you said with that declining population we seem to have a surplus of teachers and aides I think in consolidating this we might be able to save some resources and save some taxpayer money. All right thank you very much Kathleen O'Ryan what's your view on education and maintaining it in a declining population? I believe it's somewhat similar to Joy's position mine would be that with less students you get more education so that was my first thought when I was looking over the questions beforehand that I really believe in one-on-one teaching and I believe in letting children explore their own path in life rather than being told what to do and so on in other words I have my idea of education is probably a little bit different from everyone else I don't automatically assume that being in a school is the best way to bring a person up into their full potential. Thank you very much Terry McKay what would you do to maintain the quality of education in the face of a declining school age population? So it's been mentioned I think by three folks now that consolidation is the thing to continue and I would agree with that that we need to follow Act 46 and bring that to a conclusion. The problem is with the small schools and their efforts to maintain local control and that's going to be a fight in the legislature again this year but I do agree that that consolidation is the way to go in the past session we did some things with special education to allow more flexibility within the schools districts themselves and we have gotten good feedback from them on this which would appear to be a way to save some money and to provide better education for both special education folks and regular students. Thank you very much Jim McCullough your view on maintaining quality education? We absolutely need to stay the course on Act 6 the consolidation legislation that many people were terrified about when it was signed into law but immediately jumped way out ahead of anyone's expectations for new districts being formed we need to stay the course on that and we are not just talking about saving money we are talking about better outcomes and we need to keep our eye on that prize better outcomes and you know this goes back to cutting cutting cutting we need wages in the state of Vermont that are livable wages we need healthcare that is only as good as our congressmen and women have we need to have programs that support family sick leave paid family sick leave paid family leave and sick leave bringing more young have I said it already beautiful young families with their babies to Vermont we want to have you people come on up I'm hoping you are listening we are getting there and that will help the balance between gray beards and young people and perhaps the answer is getting some more young people into our schools all right thank you very much so I'm going to go to the equity question and start with you Kathleen what will you do to dismantle the systematic and institutional racism in Vermont whoa okay I was completely unaware of that so maybe we form our own reality I have not seen that whatsoever the only symptom of unrest I've seen was what I suspect was a orchestrated protest in which people of color were protesting in the middle of Burlington one day as I was walked by and it was unclear to me what they were protesting about and I just simply haven't seen it so maybe I'm a babe in the woods on that okay thank you Terry do you recognize that there's institutional racism in Vermont and what role will you play as legislator to address it so we've seen this in a couple of fronts and we saw it in Bennington recently with a legislator who resigned because of racial slander we've also seen it in police responses to stopings and things like that I go back to a film I think was probably the King and I where the teacher was singing and I'll spare you the singing but she said saying that you have to be carefully taught you have to be carefully taught to hate before you're a 6 or 7 or a 8 and now we have an administration in Washington that says you should hate Mexicans because they're murderers and rapists you should hate anyone who doesn't believe the way you do and it seems like we need to get back to education of our youth that people are not bad people are good there are some bad people with racial with racial folks Lauren my goodness I have to have my ignorance show here back in 2004 when I was in leadership Champlain I met a very beautiful person Hal Colston Hal by the way is a right-in candidate in Winooski and I'm hoping we'll be here at this table he said Jim it's against the law of black in Vermont and I'm going really I knew it wasn't a statutory law but that happens to still be the case we have institutional racism systemic racism we have just outright bigotry it's reared its head on the floor of the house as in the past 6 years when we've been working at fair policing practices we've had people standing up and saying there is no problem and in spite of the statistics that show there is a problem so we did vote a systemic racism study and it finally made it through in the special session it came out of the Government Operations Committee party line vote 6-5 and if that's not proof of systemic racism right in our legislature I'm sure I don't know what is we have an issue in Vermont and it absolutely needs to be addressed thank you Joy I guess I'm a little bit more with Kathleen while I certainly see instances of it I don't see it to the same level that Jim's playing but on more of what I see is folks getting so overly sensitive about things that seems to be the first card they raise in an argument when they're not winning it I think that Vermont has shown especially Chittenden County I can speak for shown a pretty big no tolerance for that sort of of prejudicial activity so I just don't see it to the same degree that they do alright well we have some time for closing comments okay so we're going to start with Terry I think alright could you you have closing comments you've got about a minute sure so thank you very much for having us for it's been great to have different ideas floated before us and that's what elections are about so between now and November 6 you have the opportunity to get an absentee ballot to vote early or it comes out of polls in Williston when you do please consider casting a vote for me thank you very much Jim McCullough thank you Lauren thank you channel 17 public access people need to know what's happening this is a very important part of the system if you don't know what's happening and you go to the polls and just shoot a dart at a balloon it's not useful so thank you so very much yes I am representative Jim McCullough and I've been representative Jim McCullough for 16 years I'm doing a good job I'm having a good time doing it I'm representing Williston very well and by the way I learned this from a great old Republican Henry Gray from Barry I'm the representative he said from Barry I say from Williston I'm the representative from Williston but I work for the state so I look to take care of the entire state of Vermont and as well as the town of Williston I appreciate your support all these years and again in November thank you thank you very much Drayla Mose your closing comments taxes, jobs, economy, family safety those are all the things I'm hearing about on the campaign trail and I thank you for the opportunity to be here and share the time and talk with these views if you're ready for a change or bringing prosperity back to Vermonters I respectfully ask for your vote on November 6th thank you very much Kathleen O'Ryan well I would love to be in the legislature I fully respect these gentlemen who are present today they are obviously highly qualified and also joy they are all tremendously qualified so I was basically filling a space but if you want to vote for me anyway go ahead alright well thank you very much I'd like to thank the four candidates here for the two house seats in Williston and district remind me again two, district two there are many of them we're actually here at channel 17 covering 100 candidates and 30 forums so this will be a very exciting month so stay tuned here at channel 17 and don't forget to vote on November 6th and you have the opportunity to vote early by going to your town and requesting ballot even now I think pretty soon just about now vote early and thanks so much for watching