 We move away from the media, please, your people, can you also understand me over here? Why you are putting me in a tough spot? There's something that you have mentioned, Rusa, which actually came up when it came to the complexity of handling scandals. There's the issue of cultural aspects of a country or a particular group that makes the scandal a scandal. And there's this politician from Canada who claimed that morality changes. He actually made this statement after being involved in a scandal where he was bribing and he made the ultimate comeback. Just like there we saw Waiguru being implicated in the first NYS issue but still ended up becoming a governor. He said that morality does change and the cultural aspects of a nation affects how people perceive a scandal. So I'd like to understand from you. Is this true? Do you believe our culture affects what we call a scandal? Well, I think it's partly true because what happens is when a society has and by culture we are talking about norms, established norms and values and what people believe and hold as the right way in which the society should live or the manner in which we should live as a society. I think it does affect and when the politician says that morality changes, it's very true. See when you find a society that has been used to politicians stealing money. In fact, why haven't you not stolen? There was this time when persons from one of the tribes that I am affiliated with Luiya community, there was this time when all these scandals were coming up, NHIF, NSSF, NYS. And then people started asking, Luiyas were asking themselves, where are our people in this whole scandal? How come none of us has stolen? How come none of us has participated in these scandals? We need to have at least one Luiya to put us on the map. This shows you that we are so used to theft, we are so used to money being stolen, we are so used to public resources being squandered, such that when somebody comes up and when a scandal comes up, akin to the nature of a scandal, surprised. In fact, we are like, wow, you managed to steal all those billions from the government. We are impressed, we will vote for you. And this is the sad reality, what happens is people will say, ah, Luiya isha iba kwa gava, so there is nothing left for her to steal. She won't steal from us because she already stole from the government. So I agree with you that our value system and the manner in which as a society we handle issues affects how scandals eventually affect the politicians life. For instance, if you find a politician sex scandals mostly, this person had a baby daddy, a baby mama and never took care of the kid, eventually the story changes, the person is told, wow, go ahead, multiply and fill the earth, that is what the Bible tells us. So we forget to realize that look, there is a woman out there who is suffering, there is a woman out there who has a kid that is not being taken care of, and then we turn around the situation and say, even our African culture says, marry as many women as possible, get as many kids as possible, fill the earth. So how we handle scandals is in direct correlation with the kind of value system and the morals that we have as a country. On the same, she is overrunning the boy chain. Overrunning. On the same, our culture is a culture of handouts. We exalt those who come with big cars, who build big houses. Actually by the way Mulkomen had mentioned some time, sorry to interrupt, actually at the time Mulkomen had said that Kenyans have attended it to be very hypocritical because there is nothing they hate more than a broke politician. Yes, if you come there with your morality and you have nothing to give them, they will chase you away, they will hear you, listen to you, then oh, south. You have potential. But when you come in a Mercedes Benz, with money, with a sweet case of money, that is what they want, they will collect you. In church they will give you red carpet and they will celebrate you. That is the Kenya we have, and that's the culture. So we have over-exalted that people have money without asking. Where did they come from? Where is the origin of this cash? So those who steal again, they are not persecuted. You steal, you buy your way out. That is why people say it's rather you go steal millions than stealing kitchen, a chicken. You get it. So because the person who steals chicken will be beaten by the people down there and they will die, you get it. But the politician or not the person, that big man who will steal millions up there will come and give millions, celebrate him. He will give him all he wants. He will come to church and be given the top seat. And that is it. He will come and buy for a seat. That's the person you will add again. You will add more riches too as an MP. So our culture is just our culture and that is where we must run out. We must run away from. We should tell people that's not where the political leadership comes in. Why are you electing someone, specific education? Why do you elect someone? Do you elect somebody because you have some money? That's the question. So we should get out of that for us to be able to say that really as Kenya we are headed somewhere. And it's possible. You look at Rwanda. Rwanda is doing badly. It's not the history of Rwanda where it has come from, the genocide and all that. But in Kenya today Rwanda is number four. Where the corruption index in Rwanda is very low. So it's possible. It's just one man, one woman to stand up and say it's enough. So basically you guys are saying for the current situation, if anybody is wanting to go into power, they better be prepared to break the rules and buy their freedom. I mean like wow. That's not very encouraging news for them. It's actually very unfortunate. Because some of us out here are actually thinking about morals. We are actually thinking of transforming our political culture. We are thinking of how do we make, how do we change the narrative. Because at some point there needs to come a generation that will change the narrative. Because like right now young people are realizing that with all this corruption that is going on, we are the ones who, we are the proverbial kumbe, we are the proverbial cow that went to eat grass. We are the proverbial grass that when two cows fight, when the cows are fighting, when the cows are fighting, when the cows are fighting, when the cows are fighting. So young people are slowly realizing that we are the proverbial nyasi. But then the thing is that we have a choice to either change the narrative or continue with the same narrative, push it on. Getting and become even more corrupt. Because now you know, the younger the generation, the more innovative it is. So we have a choice to either use our innovativeness to transform and change the narrative and say that look, for once we are going to be a generation of leaders with integrity. We are actually going to ensure that chapter 6 of the constitution on ethics and integrity. The integrity chapter 6 of the constitution will actually be put to play such that we operate in a manner as the ethics and the integrity chapter talks about. Leadership and integrity chapter talks about the fact that power authority bestowed upon a leader should be exercised in a manner that brings honor to the office. And integrity to that office. Are we going to be the generation that will say, you know what, we want to bring honor to this office. So that it becomes such an honor to even become a governor. I mean, look at the kind of governors we have today. I'm not even going to mention names. Some of these governors are the worst examples ever for leadership. And if we are telling young people that you know, you can also be a leader, you can also be a governor. And then the example of a governor that you're having is one who goes on media and confesses that he has been smoking bangi. You know confesses that he has been stealing. So you ask yourself, what kind of example are we showing to our generation? Look at other countries. I followed closely the United States primary elections. Sorry, not primary. The last elections for the congressmen and congresswomen and the House and Senate. And I would see the kind of leaders that were elected. And I still follow them on Instagram. I follow them on Twitter. These are women, especially the women who were elected by the Democratic Party. Do you know, I was even going to ask you what kind of leaders that you admire and those that influence. Let me tell you. I personally admire women like Maria Contes. You know, she stands up for what she believes in. Ilhan, this woman who was who came from the Kenyan, whatever. The Somalian who was at Kaku Makamp. You see these are women who stand for something. They believe in something. Stacey Abrams, even though she lost, you could see that she was pushing for an agenda. And these are people who... And you see in the United States, you will be... Forget about the president. Let's talk about this as a leader. Apropatara background check will be done on you. By the time you're standing for governor, you have a clean slate, you know. But then in this country, my friend, it's crazy. There's no accountability. There's no check. There is nothing. You present your papers to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission, but then you're cleared and yet you have scandals that are dating back to 19 before I was born, you know. So it's crazy what kind of leadership system are we having in place. And as young leaders, are we ready to change the narrative? Benson Musungu, are you ready to change the narrative? Because, you know, we've heard of political parties... Do you know they're even afraid of us now? That's the thing. Because of the bad examples we have said they are so afraid of us. Yeah, because now, as young people, we will come in and try to change the narrative, you know. And this is where an example of someone like Boniface Mangi who was standing up for the truth, even his party is called Lukweli Party. You would see him wanting to change the narrative, pushing for it. But you know, the system tells you, my friend, are you coming here to change the way things are done? Or are you coming here to conform to the system? So we really need to start having conversations around how do we change this narrative? And the narrative can be changed by young people saying that, you know what, in the coming elections we are not going to be bribed, in the coming elections we are not going to be used, in the coming elections we are going to look at what is your track record. Yes. All right, actually, can you please exchange your mic? Sorry, I'm getting information that you should exchange your microphone. All right, all right. Oh, yeah. We have good loss. Just like Ruta said, we have good loss, low loss, which in the chapter 6, the integrity part of it, we, a leader, a person who is going to be a leader in our country should be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, you know. But who, who is the, who looks like... Who implements that? Nobody does, nobody implements it. And you have so many other good laws and we keep enacting laws in this country, you know. The difference between us and the other democracies that have grown over the years, like the US that you're talking about, one time I was in Denmark for their election and it was super. You look at the kind of leaders, you look at the way election is done and you wonder where did we go wrong as a country. But again you tell yourself, okay, maybe you're still a young democracy, then they are in 100 or 200 years of democracy. Yeah, that's true. And it's an election day, people just leave their homes and go vote and there are no campaigns. They are voting purely on issues, you know. All the candidates are there and they are campaigning purely on issues, you know. That is where we are. That's where we must get as a country and we must do it as the youth. We must start it. You know, the youth are the people. Do you know what I've heard? When I've been listening to the two of you over here, you guys have not mentioned any Kenyan leaders that you admire. Everybody was from outside. Benson has not said any. It's so unfortunate. No, no, it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. Not that you don't have leaders here who met you. I mentioned Ponifas Mwangi. Yeah, at least that's a Kenyan. Yeah, but you have people in Kenya again, the leaders you have in Kenya. Who tried. Who tried. It's not doing well. Even my governor, where I come from in Kakamega, it's not doing well, you know. If you look at what he has done, if you look at what he has done with the little amount he has been given, that is the governor, when I injured you, we and your mesoma, what is the evolution? I like that. Because he has tried. You can look, you can see the transformation of Kakamega, you know. So for you, that accounts for something we can look up to. Yes. Regardless of people who also don't have the scandals as well. And again, I've seen a person who was a watchman, go campaign with no money and still doing his watchman job and won an MCS seat. And still he does not believe that he has won in Kenya. He still goes back to work every day morning for at least three weeks to be sure that really he has won. That's good. I'm glad to hear that. So it's there. It's working. It's working. So there are some who we can look up to. You must just pound, pound and continue pounding. Okay, okay. I like that. I like the fact that you've mentioned the leaders that you admire and at least you look up to. So let's talk about the scandals once. In the event that... Okay, maybe I should direct this on to you, Ruth. Okay. When a scandal, when something blows up and it's about you as a political actor and it is not true. For example, it is not true. What do you do? What should you do even before? Before it's proved that it is not true and after it is proved that it is not true. Like even in the case of our governor from Migori, Obado, he's had a case where the allegations, we don't know whether they've been proven true or false. What should somebody do if the allegations are not true? Like in your case as well, what should somebody do? Namba one, you need to just first of all calm down. Calm down. Calm down because if it is not true, then it is not true. If you know you didn't do what has been alleged of you, you have to just calm down, you see. Most of the times you panic because you know it is true and you know it is going to have implications upon you and you don't know how things are going to turn out. But if it is not true, you just first of all calm down. Namba two, stop engaging people online, trying to prove that it is not true. The more you insist on proving that it is not true, the more you show people, the more you appear as if, as if you're defensive, as if there is something you're trying to hide. I think for me I made that mistake immediately after doing the expose. I started responding to people, responding to who are calling me conmen. And a friend of mine called me and told me first of all, just calm down. You know it is not true, right? You relax, you know. Stop responding to these people because the more you respond to them, the more they think you're hiding something. Take time, let the scandal first of all, let the heat calm down. And meanwhile as the heat is calming down, have your strategy. The strategy being, how do I eventually communicate after this, all of this heat has died down. How do I eventually communicate to people that okay, so this is it. This is what I have been accused of. This is my evidence that I was not involved in that particular scandal. I was not involved in stealing maize. I was not involved in stealing money that belongs to the county government. So you need to take some time back and now develop. As the scandal is running, have your strategy team working. I remember a friend of mine, she's a CEC, a very young lady, a CEC of Vihiga County. She had been accused of squandering county government money. And the story turned out not to be true. It was actually not a true story. And they wanted to impeach her. So she was very panicking. She didn't know what to do. She was running around almost losing her mind. And she got a team of guys and I was part of the team that was trying to strategize as to how she will respond to the committee of inquiry and the manner in which she would respond such that her truth would come out. So as the story is running, as the heat is going on, gather your evidence, bring your team together, have advisors, don't depend on yourself, don't rely on yourself because in as much as you will calm down, some of the things that people will say about you will affect you. They will affect you. You will start asking yourself so now that this person is insisting on social media that I am also a corn man and they also have a huge following. How is that going to impact me in a particular way? How does it impact my brand? How does it impact who I am and the manner in which the society views me? So once you have gathered your evidence, bring together your team and after everything has calmed down when now people are sober unleash your truth. Tell them this is it. I have been accused of this. However, in my defense, it is not true. On that particular day when it is said I was at that venue, I was not there, I was here, this person can vouch for me here, the timestamps, here is the evidence, come up with all the evidence such that by the time you are done, people will just be like, okay, so what did we do? And you see the thing is if you eventually prove that you are actually not involved as it was alleged, what ends up happening is that your credibility goes up. Yes. And then the other thing is, my friend, So the scandals can work to your advantage. Yes, they can work to your advantage. The other thing is that take legal action. If somebody has thoroughly tarnished your name, defamed you, you can sue for defamation and my friend, you will make a lot of money. I like that. Okay, business opportunity right there. But it's almost time we conclude this segment. So let's make our answers real quick. Benson, what would you do if a scandal blew up about you and you know that it is not true? We need to know. But they have you had a scandal. Have you had a political scandal? Microphone, microphone. I've had, I've not had like to my extent. To the extent but yes, I've had some. Yes, and really the best thing is just to stop just to stop fast and think. Yes. Stop and think. Yes. That is calm down basically. Calm down. If you react on them, then you escalate them. Ya, you escalate them. So just keep off. Let them say, say, say at the end when you're not talking they will have to look for you now. Ask you. And ask you your side of this story. What is this? This truth. Because I can see, you know. You're not talking about it. You know. And that's the best way of handling such such. But again, mostly when this thing things happen, mostly they are true. Actually mostly they are true. Ok, because my next question was actually on what if it is true? Mostly they are true. What do you do? Especially the people in the public domain. Most of these things that you hear happen, they are true. So is it true? I am not in the public domain. Only the private citizen my scandal came out. Yes. Only that now. What now they do is they retrieve and go and clean up. And the cleaning up now is where we go back where we started. You have money to wash yourself through the media. You have the money to wash yourself through other means. Including looking for those particular people. So if it is true you have the money to wash yourself. Even others has been dirty. Others has gone dirty to the point of even others killing others. Witnesses, you get it. So it happens so. And that is in our society. I like that. So if it is true go and wash it. So if it is true eat your tomatoes. Eat your tomatoes. I like the pun. But at the end it's washed. It's washed and the person who blew it up now is either dealt with financially or even death. Which is unfortunate. I think sometimes when something comes up that you did and you honestly know that you did it just admit. Admit. But some of these things might have very high consequences. Like in my case remember the perpetrator, the conman admitted and said by the way everything is true. But then you see the problem is the problem is when you admit without going back and actually compensating or repatriating the victims in your case. Like if for instance it is said you stole someone's money. Admit that you did it and pay back that money. If it is said you impregnated someone you are a politician you impregnated a woman and are not taking care of the kid. Admit that that kid is yours because at the end of the day DNA does not lie. The kid will look like you like no one's business. And it will be difficult to deny it. Admit that indeed you are on the wrong and make things right. I believe we are a forgiving society. However forgiveness must be must be matched with justice. Let's not just forgive and say oh please forgive me and you're not going back to actually take care of the victims and compensate them. Admit and compensate. In other countries of course Admit and compensate. In other countries by the way leaders just get out and they admit. They admit. A good example is of President Nixon Richard Nixon. When the Watergate scandal came out he actually investigations were done and when he was going to be impeached he said you know what let me just step down. He admitted that he indeed was involved in it and he actually stepped down and the president that followed that came after him President Ford actually pardoned him. So yeah sometimes it doesn't hurt to be and in North Korea Park the lady who was here some times ago she was here and when she went back she was impeached after being impeached what happened the case went on and right now she's serving 25 years in prison. That's a former president immediate former president she's serving that's the laws that you're talking about can that happen in Kenya today? I do not know you let us know maybe in the future we will know but you guys I think it's about time we conclude this segment Thank you guys so much for coming and letting us know how you people deal with your own scandals as well and people should in fear. What do you mean especially? Don't victimize her. She's given her real time real time response. Real time. In fact that's exactly why I want her right here because she has no authority on the subject. So thank you so much for coming you guys God bless you. Please come again for Youth and Politics We're talking about women leaders So it's about my colleagues who are passing shots you can tell us some of the lessons you'd wish to share with the people at home when it comes to leadership real quick. What I'll say is that there is hope there is hope in Kenya there is hope that we as a country we can move in the right direction if we decide and because of the few things we've seen change in this country so I'm calling upon the youth they should not give up I know corruption and bad manners and theory has really taken out taken away what they deserved but then they must still be hopeful things are changing even in this regime of handshake there's so much that is changing the first time this is the first time we've had an anti-corruption conference in this country and you can see the things that were and the progress that came from there so let's be hopeful let's be enthusiastic we have a nation as young people and there is a greater future let's just do our small bit as the youth and show the direction I like that Benza, thank you I mean for me my parting shot would be that never underestimate a group of young people committed to make a difference and when I mean a group of young people I mean it could be two young people it could be three young people saying enough is enough the narrative needs to change never underestimate that group of young people and we need to start forming and creating that group of young people that will say we shall not be overshadowed by politics we shall not be overshadowed by the happenings the current happenings we shall not lose hope that we can actually have a transformation in terms of leadership in the leadership of our country and not only a way to keep up the hope we must immerse ourselves and we should take up those leadership positions ourselves to make that difference and for the young people when the young people stand and say elect me, I intend to be that voice of difference I intend to be the one that brings about the change can we trust them trust them without the money trust them without the big cars trust them without the fame when people like me in 2022 decide to throw our hearts in the ring please trust us 20 kazi, I like that thank you so much for coming today Ruth I like that don't give up, let us not give up as an issue we will not be nasty for too long so yes you've been watching youth and politics and we've been letting you know how to deal with a scandal in case you do want to take up a position of leadership do not fear you have heard it from the horses mouth that these things they also pass they pass with time so please I hope you paid attention but in case you missed any of the valuable insight discussed here you can find us at Y24 channel on YouTube so you can check out Ruth in case you missed it and Bansun, thank you guys so much for coming and yes goodbye it's about time I tap out