 Roedd yn gwneud am y cyfnodd, mae'r cyffredinol yn ymddi'r llyfr yn y llyfr. Mae'n gwneud am mawr. Mae eich medigodau, ymddiadau, ymddiadau, ymddiadau... ...rydym yn unrhyw genedig geniolig. A llyfr yw'r llyfr yn unrhyw cerddol ac yn yr ymddiadau. Ond wedyn wedyn wedi bod yn gwneud ymddiadu ymddiadu... ...rydwyr ymddiadau a'r llyfr yma ar y cysyllt. Now what does that actually mean? Well triangulation has actually been a technique used in geometry and in quantity surveying for a long time. And it's all about measuring a distance point by forming triangles to this point. So for example here you have two folks with their piodolites or whatever those instruments are. And they're trying to point to this distance tree. So in genealogy what we're doing is the distance point is an ancestor. So we're here in the present and the distance point is in the past, in the distant past. We're actually trying to triangulate on an ancestor. And what you have here is maybe two cousins who've done the DNA test and what they're trying to do is to find out what DNA did they inherit from that distant ancestor that is shared by both of them. And that really is the concept of triangulation and it's very similar to what's been used in trigonometry and geometry for many, many generations, many, many centuries. So previously on YouTube, and you can find this if you just Google YouTube Morris Leason step-by-step approach it will bring you to some of my videos that I've done on how you can analyse your autosomal DNA data. And there are four steps that I normally do. Step one, where does the common ancestor sit? Step two, is the common ancestor obvious? Can you find it in each other's tree? Step three, will eliminate non-contenders. It can't be that ancestral line, it can't be that ancestral line, it can't be that. What am I left with? And step four, which is the step I'm going to talk about today is triangulation. Working with small groups of people of three or more. So that is the topic of today, working with small groups. And in order to do that you have to identify groups who are likely to have the same common ancestor that has passed down DNA to everybody in that particular group. Now for this we will be using what family tree DNA call in common with matches, what ancestry calls shared matches and what 23andMe calls relatives in common. They're all the same thing. There's a small group of people that share DNA that is likely to have been passed down to them from the same ancestor back in the distant past. Now there are several ways that you can approach this. I'm going to talk about two of those ways today. The first one is messy triangulation. And this is kind of the catch-all approach. But you'll see how it works and how it worked in my particular case. And that's working with known cousins. So you actually know the people involved, know the people that you're testing. They're triangulating on a known ancestral couple. So there's an ancestral couple in your tree and you think, that's my brick wall, I really want to find out where they came from and maybe push it back an extra generation. So you're triangulating on somebody that you already know from the paper record research that you've done. And you're trying to push your tree back in time. You're trying to get back an extra generation or two. Now there's other types of triangulation. For example, when we're working with adoptees, where you're triangulating back in time and then bringing the tree forward. You're trying to trace forward in time to the living descendants of the common ancestor to find the biological father or the biological mother of the adoptee. So there's various ways that we can use triangulation today for genealogical purposes where we're going to push the tree back in time. Now this is my family tree and like all family trees it's a little bit messy and trying to get it all on one slide is difficult. But here's me here. There's my brothers and sister. There's my dad there. And dad goes back to these ancestors here. So his mother is Lillio Carroll. Her mother was Elizabeth Spearman. Her father was Edward Joseph Spearman. And his father was Patrick Spearman and his mother was Mary Morton. So Patrick Spearman and Mary Morton were the triangulated ancestors. Those were the ancestors that the triangulation was aiming at. And I realized after a couple of years of getting involved in DNA that I had also tested dad's first cousin who also went back to these ancestral couples. And Kathleen went back to the same couple and Owen went back to the same couple. And you can see they're forming triangles. Back to this particular couple. And it occurred to me that any of the matches that any four of these cousins share in common with each other, well they must have received DNA via this route, either from the spear inside of the family or the morgan side of the family. And this is what triangulation on a non-ancestral couple is all about. Anyone who matches any two descendants has to be related, asterisk, by a common ancestor either at or above the level of Patrick Spearman and Mary Morton by three times great grandparents. Now the asterisk is there because with everything in DNA there's like this is the rule, except in these certain stances. And then there's a long list of exceptions. And the exceptions here, it was a false positive match which is a match that suggests to you that you are related, in fact, either you're not related at all or the actual connection is much, much further back in time than the match would suggest. That happens from time to time, especially with the smaller segments of DNA. Larger segments of DNA is not so much of a problem, but anything below 10 centimorgans, the chances of it being a false match go higher and higher and higher, the smaller and smaller and smaller the DNA segment gets. And that's a fact of the system of analysis. And the second fly in the oediment is the second connection. How many people have cousins marrying cousins in their family tree? Well, that's just about everybody. And that is the problem, is that when you come from a small isolated rural community, I think we have a few of them in Ireland, you tend to get people cousins marrying cousins. And it might be fifth cousins marrying each other or fourth cousins, or first cousins as well. The father of modern genetics, one of modern genetics, evolution, evolution Charles Darwin, he married his first cousin who was from the Wedgwood family. And they had more of their children died than the national average. So they were afflicted by perhaps this cousin into marriage, but that's something that we'll be hearing about from Donna Rutherford in the next presentation. Now, so that's the second connection may very well be present. Let me just turn this off. And I'll just leave that there. So, what I did was I compared each of these four cousins who were all descended from this common ancestral couple here. And I looked at the number of matches that they shared in common with each other. So it was if you'd like to call them A, B, C, D, I compared A versus B, A versus C, A versus D, B versus C, B versus D, and then C versus D. And that gives you all the permutations of the possible combinations because A versus B is the same as B versus A. So you get six possible combinations and here they are here. So Dad and Cormac shared 53 matches out of their thousands of matches in common with each other. Dad and Kathleen shared 17 in common. Dad owned 13 in common. Cormac and Kathleen 34. Cormac owned 15. Kathleen owned 22. And I put them all into an Excel spreadsheet and I sorted them and I removed the duplicates and I was left with 100 shared matches. And these were people that shared, were shared matches between any two of these four. At least two of these four cousins shared these matches. So then I just sent an email to every single match. Now, we didn't know whether the match was from the Sfeirin side of the family or from the Morgan side of the family. I was interested in the Sfeirin side because I run the Sfeirin YNA project and that allowed me to break through the brick wall and take me back from my brick wall at 1800 in Tipperary to the 1600s in Limerick, to the 1500s in London, to the 1400s in Belgium, potentially. You know, it's opened up avenues of research that have pointed me back to the records and it showed me where to look. And I've got some excellent data and I'm still in the process trying to tie it all together, but the DNA has directed my genealogical research. So I sent a personal 100 emails to every single one and it was simply, you know, you match at least two of these of my four cousins and we're all descended from Patrick Sfeirin and Mary Morgan. Sfeirin or Morgan ancestors in your family tree. Yes or no? It was just that simple. And I got 49 responses and they said, no, no, no, no, no, no. The 50th response said, yes. I said, oh, great, fantastic. Now we'll find out where the Sfeirins were before Limerick in the 1600s. Oh, it's a Morgan. Well, I wasn't that interested in the Morgans, but we'll just explore this. And his name is John Morgan and here is a gravestone in Limerick and here's a close-up and it's erected by John Morgan in memory of his beloved wife Mary who died in 1879, aged 78 years. She was born about 1801. He was probably born around about the same time and that is quite similar to when my Mary Morgan was born around about 1800. So could they be brother and sister, first cousins, something like that? I said, could you show me your tree online? And they said, we haven't started it yet. All we know is what's written on the gravestone where the rest of our family are buried. So guess who's doing the family tree? So I took it upon myself and I was able to get a lot of information about this particular Morgan family branch and I was able to take it back to John Morgan who was a similar age to my great-great-great grandmother Mary Morgan. But I couldn't make the connection. I couldn't find any evidence or data that actually allowed me to connect John Morgan and Mary Morgan together. So after months of research we put the research aside and said, hopefully something will come along in due course. So then, as is the case with genealogy, you wait. Two years later we got the 51st response. Now the 51st response was a new DNA match and it was another Morgan ancestor. He actually had an ancestor called Patrick Morgan who was in the Royal Irish Constabulary and here you see him in a photograph probably taken in the 1860s. This is his uniform. He was governor of Maryborough jail and this sword is still on the wall of the Morgan household in Dublin. So a beautiful photograph and this is the first time I've actually seen an actual Morgan photograph He was born around about the same time 1812. He could have been a younger brother of my Mary and the other person's John but it caused me to there were rumors also of a link to Wales and of course Morgan is a very Welsh name but it could also be a native gay the Irish as well. So I never could decide one way or the other way what it could possibly be. So I took out all the old research I found a tree online because I started googling again and said was there anything new on the internet let me see what I can find and I found this tree and look there is Patrick Morgan in 1812 and it has his parents in it and I thought oh this is really lucky we've actually found the parents for my match he's going to be really really pleased about that and then I looked along the list that is Elizabeth Morgan and she marries a John Gorman obviously he was very fond of anagrams and then I said oh that's the John Morgan there that could be the John Morgan that I found two years ago hold on those are my great great grandparents what are my great great grandparents doing in this tree and I looked for there's no sources and the author had put this up three years previously so I thought there's no sources in this tree three years ago I'm going to contact him and I'm not going to get any reply at all but I did four days later I asked him why do you have my great great grandparents in your tree please and he wrote back saying because I have Professor Wardell's notebooks from 1906 I'm sorry excuse me who is Professor Wardell well he was Professor of Military History in Trinity College Dublin in the early 1900s and Professor Wardell the Attie, Shona, Gold and County Limerick made a Trinity College Dublin is collecting materials for a history of the Morgan name in Ireland I thought oh my goodness have I hit the jackpot here is this somebody who's actually spent his retirement researching the Morgan surname and then I found something else notes and queries 1849 Irish claim to Welsh Parenacy the complete Parenacy shows that a claim was prepared by the morgans of monster heaven put forward by the industrious genealogist this is a genealogist now from 1849 who's done all this work two 18th century letters which may or may not be genuine so it started suddenly there's elements this mystery starts unraveling and Professor Wardell's notebooks fell into the hands of this 51st match sorry the chap who owns the family tree and this is an extract from his books and it's difficult to see but there is my Mary Morgan married to Patrick Speeran these are all the brothers and sisters of Mary Morgan including Patrick Morgan from 1812 and also there's a John Morgan up there as well somewhere along the way there we go John and from this I learned that Patrick Speeran came from Capa, Fowlingary, Cante Limerick I never knew where my Patrick Speeran was born so already I'm getting information about his place of birth not only that but he marries Mary Morgan who became our sea so she changed her religion from church of Ireland to Roman Catholic and that's a very very common thing that we see in our own family trees how many people have seen a change in religion in their family trees quite a few people this is the gold mine but not only that not only did it push me back an extra generation it pushed me back so those are going to be my fourth times great grandparents fifth time, sixth time seventh time great grandparents so I've gone back four generations more and not only that but they go back to the morgans of Tredigar apparently and they go back well here is a they have this kind of crest and coat of arms 1031 so am I now going back to 1031 this is ridiculous I fell off my chair so many times when I was reading this I couldn't believe it was actually happening and I even found wait I have to show you my new house you're a wonderful audience you're all invited to come over for a weekend the lads can play polo and the girls can relax on the lawn playing croquet and then we hold out the night away in my ballroom and we have breakfast served to us by our living waiter Manuel who is from Barcelona so this is Tredigar house this is where the morgans used to live and suddenly I'm seeing them in the dictionary of Welsh biography I'm seeing them on websites around the world and there's this wealth of information about morgans there are Wikipedia, there are scandals and tales of Tredigar house and I'm even related to this chat he was captain morgan he's my own Jack Sparrow pirate of the Caribbean of my own family tree and he later became Sir Henry Morgan so he went from pirate to governor of Jamaica where he had lots of plantations so now I have a relative who was a slave holder so now I have to incorporate slavery into my family tree it raises very interesting questions I'm also related to this chat from a pedigree I found in Salt Lake City which goes back to we don't know his surname yet but apparently he's my 472nd great great great great great great great great grandfather and a pedigree of the morgan family from Noah down to Sir William Morgan night 1612 made out about 1825 so now I'm related to this chat here Sir William Morgan who did his pedigree back to Noah obviously there's a lot of myth and fantasy here but I have to double check every single figure, every single fact to make sure that this is all kosher I'm also related to this chat here anybody know who he is exactly JP Morgan wealthy American industrialist Morgan Chase Banks I should be rich but I'm not I'm also related to this person here because she goes back to the same Sir William Morgan who was born in 1571 and did the pedigree in 1612 so is anybody else related to Princess Diana ok Debbie ok Debbie I'll see you at the wedding in May so suddenly triangulation has opened up a whole wealth of material that remains to be explored verified, discarded taken on board a lot of fact checking but this is opening up an area of research that I would never have dreamt of had I not actually done DNA and done this triangulation exercise with four cousins who happened to have the same three times great grandparents so that's that and the last thing of course let's look at this false positive second connection present a problem at the time not too bad for to identify shared matches what we do on Family Treaty DNA is look at the in common with feature so you go into your Family Treaty DNA results there is a tab that just says in common with you click on the cousin that you want to triangulate with so for me it would be my I go into my dad's results his cousin Cormac comes up as a very very close match I just tick Cormac's box and then press in common with and it generates all of the matches that dad and Cormac share in common with each other these are their shared matches these are their relatives in common all the same thing and Family Treaty DNA allows you to download the spreadsheet download it into an Excel spreadsheet remove the duplicates and then send it I send an individual email not a bulk email but an individual personalised email to every single person on that list I got a 50% response rate which is not bad and the 51st response 51st response was the corker that's the one that broke through the brick wall in ways that I could never have imagined the second connection how to ruin a good party it's the spanner in the works it's the fly in the ointment because many of us will have a second connection so for example here is dad and here is his cousin Alan they are connected up there their common ancestors are John and Alan Gleason and their common ancestors somewhere up there supposing they have a match with Mary it was a shared match they both share Mary as one of their matches it could be that the common ancestor has maybe three DNA segments that it's passing down to them a red one, a black one, a blue one it might have passed down a black one and a red one to Alan it might have passed down a black one and a blue one to dad it might have passed down a blue one and a red one to Mary so none of them have actually inherited all three DNA segments just the luck of the genetic lottery you get what you're given but they've all got two out of those three and because of that they all match each other and it looks like they're all related via the same common ancestor and a lot of the time they will be but here's an alternative explanation can you come to the next one? supposing common ancestor number one between dad and Alan just passes down a black segment so Alan gets a black segment from this ancestor dad gets a black segment from that ancestor the same one, the same ancestor supposing there's a second connection and they both they have a second ancestor who passes down a red segment to Alan and a red segment to Mary so Alan and Mary have a separate common ancestor supposing there's a third common ancestor shared between dad and Mary who passes down the blue segment when you look at your matches it's going to be exactly the same result A matches B, B matches C C matches A but they don't have the same common ancestor they've got three separate common ancestors so that can happen and especially when you get these double connections and especially when you come from a more isolated rural community and there are cousins marrying cousins so you have to be careful about this and of course the further back in time that you go the more likely this second connection can be a fly in the ointment you know with third cousins I think you're relatively okay if you start getting back to the fourth cousin level the fifth cousin level I think the chances of finding a second connection within your family tree the higher and higher and higher and eventually you're going to get what's called because if you take my dad loves this calculation if you take this two parents four grandparents, eight great grandparents 16, 32, 64 take it back to 2,000 years you have trillions of people in your family tree more than any more people than ever lived on the planet so there is going to be cousins marrying cousins as you go back in time he calls it socially acceptable in breeding so all three match each other they come back as shared matches using the common with facility on family tree DNA none share a single common ancestor and the chance of a second connection is more likely but further you go back in your tree so if all shared matches match each other this could mean either all three share one overall common ancestor that was example number one number two each pair has a common ancestor and there is no overall common ancestor shared by all three people or alternatively all three of them do share one single common ancestor and there is also a second connection with two of them or even with all three of them so those are the kind of options you need to keep in mind and that's why I describe it as a fly in the ointment because it can be misleading and what's the probability of each scenario I have no idea how do we distinguish between each scenario that's when we come on to the second type of triangulation and I just call the purest triangulation to distinguish it from messy triangulation and the purest triangulation means proving a particular DNA segment is shared by all three people this is where we get really technical I don't like it I think the messy triangulation is good enough because ultimately you're still going to have to go back to the records to prove that the connection actually is true but here is what we actually use to do this purest triangulation we want to look for overlapping segments we want to create what is called a triangulated group which is a very specific definition in genetic genealogy you can also use phased data and ideally that's what you would need to do to be absolutely certain you have found a triangulated group and this is the purest approach and there are a lot of blogs written about it so Blaine Bettinger who writes the genetic genealogist blog has talked about a triangulation intervention and there is a Wikipedia definition of triangulation as well but that's mainly talking about Y DNA and mitochondrial DNA whereas with this one we're talking about autosomal DNA which is all the rest of your chromosomes there's also some blogs on triangulation written by Jim Bartlett's segmentology he talks about how to triangulate does the triangulation work so you can get a lot of information from these blogs on how to actually go through the whole process if you are interested in doing that some of you may be it's very time intensive and if you have spare time on your hands well I'm good I prefer the messy triangulation method because I think it's much more old encompassing but with this type of triangulation where you're looking for a DNA segment that is shared by everybody in the group and here are a few more blogs that deal with it you end up with something like this so here is a similar example these are the cousins that were tested and they all go back to this particular ancestral couple here so they're all triangulating on this particular ancestral couple but look at the DNA segments that are shared between all of them here is a DNA segment shared just between these two people all of these single lines are DNA segments shared between two people this one is overlapping that one is shared between these two people here and also these two people here so there's three people involved in that particular segment so that's an overlapping segment that's shared by more than two people excuse me what else do we have here's another overlapping segment that's going to be shared by more than two people here's an overlapping segment here that's shared by more than two people and here is one that is shared by the blue, the purple the red, the orange, the green that is the largest one but it doesn't include absolutely everybody in the group so if you were just going to use this as the triangulated segment that must have come from the common ancestor you'd only be looking at the matches for these people and you wouldn't be looking at the matches for the other people in this particular triangulation group and that to me is perhaps an example of throwing the baby out with the bath water because I think there's a lot of useful information that to be had by looking at all of the shared matches within a group of people because that is how I managed to get my Morgan problem solved and you do have to be aware that you could be going down a false track because there might be double connections there might be false matches there as well but this purest approach doesn't get you it is very pure and you can say for sure that these people have a 99.9999 99.99% chance of actually inheriting that particular DNA segment from the ancestral couple upon which everyone is triangulating however and the reason why this happens is because we have two copies ideally you'd want to just compare chromosome 21 with chromosome 21 your copy of chromosome 21 say from your paternal side with the one copy of chromosome 21 from your match but of course we get two copies of each chromosome from our parents one from our mother one from our father so when the machine is reading these chromosomes it reports the value of the bases on each of the chromosomes in turn so at this particular position I have a value of TT I have a value of GG at this position here is AG at this position here is CC so that's my chromosome 21 and those are the particular points that I have on that particular chromosome when I'm comparing mine with my match this is my match's two chromosomes so I'm comparing my two with my match's two my match is going to have maybe a TT of this position a CT of this position a GA and a CA and when you're comparing two bases on your match's chromosome with the two bases on your chromosome and we can illustrate this graphically by looking at a fully identical region a non identical region or a half identical region so a full identical region and TT matches TT two letters from me two letters from my match GG does not match CT AG is a full match because it doesn't matter whether it's AG or GA so AG and GA are a full fully identical region and CC and CA only share one C in common with each other and that's all a half identical region so that's the kind of print out you'll get on JED match if you upload your data to JED match and there's a very useful visual way of actually representing but if we phase the data and that means instead of comparing two chromosomes with two chromosomes we isolate the maternal chromosome from the paternal chromosome and we just compare one of our chromosomes with one of our match's chromosomes and if we did that this would change the values to T, G, G and C and we did the same on our side and just noted one chromosome we'd have T, C, A and C and this would change this visual diagram to this one we have a fully identical region a non-identical region and this would go to a fully identical region so that's what the phasing does by separating out your maternal from your paternal copies of your chromosome and getting your match to do the same you actually can get a much clearer picture of where you actually match each other on a DNA segment and this could be used for triangulation because it would actually help to identify triangulated groups much more efficiently it's not essential but it would certainly help so a triangulated group is defined as three or more people share the exact same DNA segment all are shared matches to each other in common with status all have the same DNA segment either in its entirety or in just overlapping parts and you can add in phased data to this definition as well it confirms that the same segment originates from the same common ancestor that is the purest approach you can see it's quite technical you can see that it is quite complicated and it's not something that I would recommend to people but the messy approach is good enough for the beginner and just to show you my dad's matches with those four cousins that were Morgans there's my dad there the only overlapping segment is this one down here which he shares with only two of those four people so if I was just looking taking the purest approach with my dad I'd only be looking at the matches for two of his cousins so triangulation means different things to different people it can be effective without getting into technicalities it can be confirmed by searching for overlapping segments overlapping segments are not always present so proof is not always possible but it does not negate the findings nevertheless just because you can't find an overlapping segment doesn't mean that you're not related to this particular via this particular triangulator ancestral couple documentary evidence of a connection is good but it is not confirmed that the DNA was transmitted to all shared matches so that overlapping segment that my dad has with those two cousins I'm assuming they came from either Patrick Speer or Mary Morgan but they could have come from a second connection that I haven't uncovered yet so you have to keep that in mind as well and using face data maximises the veracity of true overlapping segments using overlapping segments and face data only identifies a small proportion of all possible triangulated groups and messy triangulation still has an important role to play so after all that DNA is a pointer and I'm going to bring it back to the very very beginning DNA is a pointer that just says you and you you're related to him and go away and find out how you're connected and to find out how you're connected you go back to the records for what DNA has done is it has shown you where to look and that you know if that's all you take from this lecture that is the most important message DNA is just a pointer it shows you where to look it helps you focus your genealogical research but you will have to go back to the records to confirm that you are related via a named ancestor so that's what makes DNA such a useful tool is because even though you can get wonderfully technical about it you don't have to you can simply use it as advice when people write to me and say oh DNA says we're related it's on chromosome 18 it's a 10 centimorgan segment I go stop let me just stop you there here's my family tree do you recognize any names and if the answer is no then we're still back where we started we're still at that brick wall and it's thanks very much for getting in touch wishing you the very best of luck with your genealogical research and if you find out anything more be sure to get back in touch with me and then it goes into my black hole folder called autosomal DNA matches so that's really all I have to say and I will say thank you very much and if there's any questions I'll be happy to answer them it's fine enough to ring the microphone around if anybody has any questions any questions from everyone anyone very difficult to determine because that's called in a genealogical time frame and that is just not the case so you can have it but perfectly you might share it with a your full cousin and the question is a thousand years ago any reliable way absolutely and that's why that example is such a wonderful example because all I did was to see who are the people that match any two of these four cousins and let's assume that that DNA has to come down either by Patrick Spyrin or Mary Morgan and let's just do a blunderbus effect let's contact everybody on that who are a shared match I didn't bother looking at the DNA in fact the chart that I showed about my dad and his matches to these four cousins I only thought about it afterwards because it didn't even cross my mind to go and check the DNA all I know about the DNA is it saying you're a match you still have to go back to the records and I thought I actually better look on the browser and just see what the DNA segments are that are shared and see if there's any overlapping segments but it was very much a secondary thought now I know that's going to be heresy probably to a lot of people who spend a lot of time pinpointing which DNA segment came from which ancestor but I think the fact that I had to wait for the 51st response to actually solve the question shows that if you are going to throw out a lot of potential shared matches show them away because they don't have a triangulated segment you are going to be losing the opportunity of getting in touch to one person who has professor Wardell's notebooks who has that genealogy that goes back to the ten hundreds who has that family Bible that has all of your ancestors an extra two generations on the line that you're interested in who has the letters in the attic that nobody really cares about but they were frightened to throw the maps so for me the messy triangulation approach and just looking at your shared matches is still a very very good way to actually approach the whole thing I think it saves you a lot of time because all you have to do is send a hundred emails and that saves you having to understand the technicalities of a triangulated segment and other finer niceties of the technicalities wonderful any other questions there's one from John Reed here there's one from Polly Walton over here I don't read the skeptic yet fine if instead of being fascinated with those sgir in ancestry you have been fascinated with your Morgan ancestry don't you think you would have got the same conclusion about any DNA evidence? very good question and the answer is quite possibly yes but I was particularly focused on a particular ancestral line and I think that's true for a lot of us is that when we are going to do our tree there are certain ancestors that interest us more than others there are certain surnames that interest us more than others I don't know why I didn't find that Morgan family tree two years previously when I first did the research because I was on Google and I was looking at various things and it probably was still up there at that point in time so I didn't see it back then and that's another feature of genealogy is that you google something you find it and then two years later you find it again and you've forgotten that you found it two years before you think it's fantastically new and you're really excited I'm having the strangest deja vu it is deja vu because you've deja vued it already so yeah I could have possibly found it through conventional means but I would argue that the DNA can help speed up your discovery of the right records has it? on the side of a lovely example for your blue side and your green side can I just say that Paddy usually when I find something Paddy says oh I just heard from your fifth cousin we'll come to that at the end of this my great great grandfather I forget how many greats grandparents Thomas Parker married Mary Kees in 1831 in 1840 Thomas's brother Francis Parker married Margaret Smith in 1841 Margaret's brother Joseph Smith married Mary Kees sister Ellen Kees so each of them in a family three families each family are first cousins to the other two they have no single common ancestor that I am aware of so if you take their DNA they will one person from each family you will have three people who will look at first cousins to each other if you look at their half-identical regions their first cousins I'm pretty sure there will be regions in which all three are half-identical to each other but even in that case we have the exception to the rule it does not necessarily follow that there is a common ancestor up to you go and do the amazing the only way to rule out a case is like that absolutely and my Thomas Parker had a first cousin also called Thomas Parker he married Suzanne Electric his mother was Alice Morgan he was one of your Mormons I knew it was coming that's wonderful let's all put our hands together not to jump over our spacing what was the presentation all of genealogical information from Rick Wall and the next presentation here is going to be the final presentation of genetic genealogy art in 2018 in Belfast and it will be from Donna Rutherford who will be taking us on the game of genes oh no it's Ed Gilbert actually I'm sort of just looking forward to Donna's presentation that Ed is standing there at the back of the room I apologize for confusedly how can you possibly forgive me so it will be Ed Gilbert here in about five minutes time I just wanted to give you a heart attack hi do you match most people in Ireland who have tested do I match most people the smallest number of people in Ireland who have tested oh no no quite a few it's over 100,000 I'd say yeah yeah between the various companies it's quite a few people you come up in my matches really you're going to have to send me an email I haven't looked at your surnames and none of them burns burns in Victor burns in my tree