 Yes, you don't. Good morning and welcome to this week's edition of Encompass Live. I am your host, Krista Burns, here at the Nebraska Library Commission. Encompass Live is the commission's weekly online event, as we call it. It's a webinar. It's a webcast. It's an online show. The terminology is up for debate. Call us whatever you want. We're here live every Wednesday morning at 10 AM central time, though. If you're unable to join us on Wednesdays, that's fine. We do record our shows every week and post them onto our website. And I'll show you where that is at the end of today's show. So you can always watch our recordings at a time that is convenient for you. We do a mixture of things here, presentations, interviews, book review sessions, many, sometimes many training sessions. Basically anything library related, we are happy to have on the show. We do have Nebraska Library Commission staff do presentations sometimes. And we also bring in guest speakers as we have today. On the line with us this morning from the East Coast is Maurice Coleman, who, well, what is your current title? What are you, what are you? My full official title is Specialist Three Technical Trainer Human Resources. OK. And what does that actually mean? Well, let's see. So hi, my name is Maurice Coleman. My library name is there on the slide you see in front of you. Yep, Hartford County, this isn't, yep, and he says this is out of Maryland for anyone who's not aware of where that actually is situated. And there'll be a map quiz later. So I'll show you a map of where we are. But what that really means is here at Hartford County Public Library, I do the training for all new staff, the new employee training. I coordinate new employee orientation. There are various trainings to do throughout the year. I either run them or coordinate them, get speakers in here if they're from outside, work with subject matter experts, et cetera, and new products or upgrades of things. I'm either on the training team or in the training team for all those things plus other duties as assigned. Plus I have to be sort of the expert on what is this? Question mark, here's this thing, device service, and you have to have it answered pretty much off the top of my head. So that's some of what I do. And then I do internal consulting. I work with the public, with staff, our innovation lab, which you'll hear all about today. That's what we're here for today. Yep, and any special projects that come along, which we do a lot of special projects. Sounds very similar to a lot of our job descriptions, I'm sure. All right, yeah. So Maurice is here with us today to talk about, as you can see here, this innovation lab that they set up at one of the library there. And I'll just let you take it away. You have your presentation. You can tell us what you did, how you pulled it off. Excellent. And just remember, you can always ask questions, as Krista mentioned. Yes, we won't hold them to the end. So as you think of something, type it in there to the questions section, and we will grab them from you. Yep, and there'll be a couple of spots that have a big question mark that you'll see are obviously places to do questions. All right. Cool. So here we go. This is just shot of the innovation lab outside of the lab and our web address. On most of the slides going forward, you will see that there is a web address in the lower left-hand corner. That is the web address of the innovation lab, our static page on our website. The lab is better experienced like most of these things in person. So this is me. This is my contact information, my Twitter handle so you can feel free to heckle me if you so choose on Twitter, and my email address. I am available to help you all to do stuff as part of my work here. I can answer a couple of questions or if you have some longer form things you do, I do do consulting and speaking all across the country. So you can feel free to contact me and we can talk about anything. This really is all about the innovation lab that we did here at Harper County Public Library. So Harper County Public Library, we are a suburban library system. We're located in northeastern Maryland. If you have had the pleasure of traveling up and down the East Coast, United States of I-95, between Baltimore, Washington, D.C. and New York, you drove through our county. At some point, we have a famous rest area here at Maryland House that folks in the stop will never get off of the highway obviously as folks drive on I-95. Our county is really incredibly diverse. We're a bedroom community for both at D.C. and Baltimore. We have a very, very, very large, as you see circled on the map in front of you, that is a large military installation called Aberdeen Proving Grounds. If you all heard about the blimp that got away, that's where it was. The blimp that got away from the Army, that's what we see every day. Oh, that was you, okay. Yes, that was my neck of the foot. I got to see the blimp every day because where it says APG, sort of in the middle, center, down, bottom, right in the words, Edward Branch, that's where the blimps were tethered. Ah, so you saw them anyway. So you got to see them every day. Oh yeah. Until they escaped. Until it went escaped, yes. We have a lot of different things here at Hartford County Public Library. We are, as I mentioned, we're a better community for Maryland, so we have lots of what we call McMansions, starter castles. We have almost every range of ethnic, we have a lot of ethnic groups here in small quantities. What we really do is we have a very wide range of income levels here. We have everything from traditional, lower income housing to middle class housing to farms, lots of farms. We do lots of farming here. In fact, we go from really the military all the way up to the Amish, our Whiteford branch in North Eastern part of our county up at Whiteford, they have a hitching post for the Amish that come to the branch because as you know, the Amish always want their DVDs. That's what we have found now. We're a library system that deals with a lot of different folks. We have a wide range of constituents that we serve here at Hartford County. So some new stuff that we've done over the years here at Hartford County Public Library. A lot of libraries do games. We were one of the first library systems in the country to introduce video games as a collection. There was a time when major cataloging folks would ask for our mark record so how do you catalog these video games? We tend to sneak in the learning. We just celebrated the 40th anniversary of our learning and sharing collection, which are educational toys, puzzles, games, and kits. That feature themes such as doctor visits, surgery, motor skills, nutrition, food and language development, and introduction to learning the alphabet, learning fairy tales, and sign language. So those are kits that folks can check out in our system and take them home and learn all about these different things. That again is a 40 year old thing. Something a little newer, our American Girl Doll collection, we do have a collection kit that goes out with the various American Girl Dolls. They include accessories, carrying cases, doll beds, and a book and a journal that the young folks can write in and describe the adventures of each doll. That's a really cool thing. I just recently heard about libraries doing that. I saw somewhere online that it was mentioned. And I was like, oh, that's awesome. Yeah, so in fact, back in, you had Amanda Roberson who used to be our youth, our children youth coordinator here. You had her on talking about some of our programs. In fact, some of these programs. Please, Deb, the leapers and stuff, yep. Yep, so Little Leapers. This is a program designed for preschool kids to get them, oh, what is this thing about science? So there's things such as I'm an architect, I'm a botanist, I'm an entomologist, I'm a ring biologist, I'm a chemist, and I'm a paleontologist. So there are kits that contain specific things to not just those skills, but there are also all sorts of really cool things in there. So we hit them really early with science. We also understand that American Girl Dolls, we wanna have a collection that not balances, but complements the American Girl Doll collection. So this past summer, we launched our superhero figure action kits. And what we really discovered, unfortunately, is that there are a whole lot of male 12-inch superhero figures, not many, any women in this category. There might be one or two now, but when we launched, which is true, there are not really a whole lot. Not cool. Not cool, we were very unhappy. And that was really a point we discussed with our material specialists. And they said they couldn't find anything. They tried and tried and tried for a good year trying to find the right sizes, et cetera. They just couldn't. But let's go with the Wonder Woman movie coming out that they'll at least be something. Let's just say Wonder Woman is the most common one to first come out in that kind of thing because of being the one most part of the Justice League and all that. So yeah. Right. And there's Black Widow stuff, but nothing in this, we wanted to go with this particular size and the action figure size. No Black Widow in the action figure size. They have a little Black Widow. Anyway, I'm gonna go check here. Okay. So LEAP kits, we also have kits for the older set. They can take out microscopes. They can take out circuitry. They can take out rock collections. They can take out dinosaur fossils. These are all easy do-it-yourself kits with specific directions and real scientific equipment. So they can take these kits out, go home and explore all these things. And then last, what we do here, we give them a robot. We have these little things called Finch Robots. You can get them from a company in Pittsburgh. You can get them on loan as a library system for six months, I think it's six months or a year. And your commitment is to hold some programming with them. We did that and then we decided to create 10 LEAP kits with the Finch robots in them. They use a program called Scratch to, I'm sorry, it's SNAP, which is based on Scratch to program. You just connect it right to your computer via USB and you can program the thing to do all sorts of things and understand 17 different programming languages. All right, so that's where we started here at ATPL. That's our mindset here. So the idea of creating some sort of digital creativity space is really within what we do here at ATPL. It truly was within our mission. And I encourage you if that type of stuff isn't part of your mission, put it into your strategic plan and make it part of your mission. Make sure it's part of what you do. Because it is what we do in libraries. We are the toe in the water folks for a lot of people when it comes to technology and half the time we are the only way they get access to technology. So we started, as I mentioned, the big circle. Down there we have a combination of military and civilian folks who work on, we call it on post. We teamed with the Army, Edward Chemical and Biological Center to get a 3D printer into one of our branches. It happens to be the Abingdon branch, which is sort of semi-essentially located in our county. And they worked with the staff there to put a lab, a printer, right on the reference desk. So what we did was we enabled our public computers. We threw the program that would cubify in this case. That's a cube 3D printer for those of you who are not familiar with 3D printers. That is an older version of a cube 3D printer. This is back in 2013. So I was talking almost three years ago in an industry that's only really getting off of the ground. Kids, adults, folks from all over the county were able to come in and explore and get something 3D printed. We also held a miniature, not even a fair, but a class on doing 3D printing, et cetera, a couple of different times in our meeting room. Folks brought in their homemade 3D printers and some kit 3D printers, as you see here. They're a couple of different kits and some homemade things. They're early versions of 3D printers. That's really cool to see. You can build your own 3D printer. That's cool. Yep, there's a kit that you can get now for $400. I think it's 400 bucks. The 400 to 500 bucks, that is primarily pressed wood, but the important parts are all metal and you can just assemble it and have a 3D printer up and running with a little bit of elbow grease. Nice. And it does pretty decent prints. We have the next version up in our lab, but again, we're getting off. So those of you who might not know, Kristen and I, we've known each other for years, so as she just feels free to interrupt me and that's okay because it's more of a conversation. That's really what this is. Plus, I host a podcast. It does a live conversational talk that Kristen really should head on. It never does. I'll just leave that right there. So we also have this beautiful staff training space at the Abedin Branch. Had 14 staff computers, one trainer computer. As you see there in the middle, it's the only one with an old fashioned monitor on top because it held the projector that went up there. So we had this space. It was used, but it wasn't always used because it was a specific staff and sometimes public training space. So we had this space that was just there. It was great to have when we had to train people on a bunch of things, but it really was just there. They quieted a lot of time. So the branch manager has seen an opportunity to say, hey, let's do something with this space. Plus, it was time to refresh your computer. So we figured it was a good time to strike. It really was a luxury, but our branch manager who really led this talked about it for years and had bounced the idea in and amongst administration staff to really create something here at the Abedin Library and maybe use this space for it. So that was the big vision. The big vision was to create something that would allow folks, not just the experienced 3D printing because it's not all about 3D printing, but also the creativity process, also the digital process to be able to manipulate images, manipulate CAD files, et cetera. We want people to really get the hands on of digital creativity. We just didn't want to, it was nice to have just a 3D printer there, but we really wanted to emphasize how does something go from your head to a computer, to a design, to an output file, to a 3D printer to get this thing. So we wanted people to really have the big vision. We wanted to really create some place where people can truly create the future. So we created a digital creativity space. And notice that our space is called the Innovation Lab. It is not called a maker space. And part of the big reason for that, at least from our perspective, is that maker space is so, it sounds like a trendy thing that we wanted to truly just make it the Innovation Lab. Well, this year it has 3D printers. In three years, that might be so passe. We want to be a place of innovation, new things. So we decided not to call it a maker space. We call it a digital creativity space. That's really what it is. Plus part of our justification, as you see from the brand new ALA Digital Inclusion Survey, we wanted to be one of, in this case, the 34% offering stream, steam, whatever you, anyone wants to call it, STEM steam, I'm always confused by that, programming. Really wanted to make sure that our folks, because of the presence of the military here, plus this is really where jobs are going in the future, we wanted people to be prepared. We wanted to do some early learning with them here in the Innovation Lab. We wanted to offer programming and the ability to create the future here at HCPL. And this obviously is just a fun slide. We really wanted to step into the future here at HCPL and make sure that we're ahead of the curve in terms of being wiped out by the 3D printed robot race, which I have learned over the last couple of years is not that far away from reality. It's not that far fetched of 3D printers creating 3D printers. It isn't that... Yeah, actually, someone actually had just asked this when you're talking about 3D printing before. Someone here also from the East Coast David Rothman asked, how long can I use a 3D printer to build a new 3D printer? Right. And there you go, David, he answered your question. Yep, we're doomed only in a few more years to play with our technology. So part of my job is to work with a group that I'll tell you a little bit about later called RampMD, which is a regional association of additive manufacturing partners. And part of it is talking to military folks. And this is the stuff they told us in a public setting, so you know they're about 50 years ahead of this. But one of their dreams is to create a trailer that can go to any place, and that means any hostile environment, find raw materials, a bunch of robots go out, find the raw materials, bring the raw materials back, break themselves down and have a couple of robots that remake the parts that went out to break things down into something that can make stuff from the raw materials wherever they find them. Recycling. So, yes. We do have a question. Can you define, explain what is meant by the internet of things? Someone just asked that. Okay, the internet of things is, this is gonna be my very fuzzy answer. The IoT, if you use your favorite search engine, you'll find the internet of things is a way of, I believe, simply using simple computing devices to connect everything. The idea is that it's all connected, not just a computer, but everything is sort of connected together in a big information web, which is really what the web is supposed to be. The IoT, part of the IoT movement, Windows is giving something away, it's that Windows 10. They're giving something away to smaller computers. It's a whole big movement to really connect everything. And for those of you who may know more about IoT, feel free to correct me. I can't see the question, so feel free to correct me in the comment areas. But that's my understanding of the internet of things. So really for us, a couple of different things. Number one, for the younger people, it's really the future will be what we put into it now. So our exposing, as you will see, younger folks to technology, to computing, to 3D printing, to the process of digital creation, which is graphic manipulation, sketching. How do I take this thing and convert to this thing so I can move it here? The whole scientific exploration process, we want them to really feel a part of. And even if they walk out and just print some dopey little thing, they at least understand this is a computer file. This is what this machine does. This computer language changes it into some sort of machine language so this machine can understand it and produce this result. That's what we really want. Everyone who comes into the lab to understand that you can take something manual, make it digital, and then get something tactile back from that digital, from that original manual thought. Also for everybody out there, it isn't technology if it was invented before you were born. So for a lot of folks, some people are still catching up. Even the young people who come in, 3D printing is relatively new. Digital image manipulation is not. Taking photos and doing green screen, not new. But it's new to a lot of people. And we want people to feel comfortable with that technology. So part of what we do is we make sure it's hands-on. We have books, people to follow in order for them to learn how to do. We try not to do it for them. We want them to learn. We want them to fail and to try again, to try and to fail and to try until they get it right. Also some great Google career advice. We don't want to tell people that it's about making 3D printing. We want people to learn how to be able to do whatever they want to do. So learning how to create something digitally. The what is left open to their imagination. The what right now may be a Pokemon piece or chess piece or Minecraft piece. But what they're learning to do is they're learning to program and learning to think like a computer. They're learning to put information in proper order. They're learning to do some basic programming and engineering manipulation. Why didn't this structure work? Well, you didn't have support here. What do you mean? Well, you have to have support for this weight that's coming down here. Wow, that's really cool. What is that? That's engineering. And you teach them engineering by getting them to build some dopey little toy. But you're teaching them engineering skills, teaching them computation skills. You teach them critical thinking skills. You're teaching all these different skills in a way that's really fun and they can take the thing home with them. So that's why we created the innovation lab. In order for us to create the innovation lab, a big impetus, I told you about our branch manager who really wanted to do something. Well, she talked to our foundation director and they got together and said, well, you know, that's a really great idea. Let me think about it and see what we can do. Well, it so happens that someone walked into the library with a big checkbook. That's really what it was, it was a big checkbook. We have a local bank called Rosa Federal. Savings, it turns out the CEO of the bank is a Hartford County public library user. Loves the library. Said, hey, we're opening up, we're renovating a branch in Hartford County. We want to do something really big. The branches are Abingdon. Can we do anything to help out the Abingdon library? Well, the foundation director branches is sure we can do something, we threw something together. They ended up giving us $25,000 over five years to really jumpstart the creation of the Innovation Lab. So that was the big checkbook. We know that some of the stuff and some of the expectation we're getting that money over a five-year period. So we had some seed money to get it going and then truly the lab shouldn't and it's designed not to really look exactly the same over the five years. Bringing new things in, taking new things out, taking things out that don't work or that aren't successful, that's all the process of being an innovative space. We have created a space that's flexible that we can put new things in, move things around, et cetera, in order to meet our needs. I just saw this as a really great graphic. This is really what it feels like. It's someone who comes in and says, hey, we want to give you $25,000 to open up a lab. Okay, that's really kind of cool. Find that person in your area who has that sort of laying around, who's willing to help you out at the library. And of course, in our case, we give them big honking credit. This is the screen that's on every single to all of our computers, our monitor, all over the place. We truly make sure that they are really recognized for powering the Innovation Lab because if it wasn't for them, there would be no lab here. We do that digitally. We also have physical signs, very large sign in the lab that is great advertising for them. And really for us, it again enabled us to have this lab. You also need some smaller checkbooks. In our case, we had some other folks who were able to pitch in, not just Roselle, because it doesn't cost just that much money to do their other expenses to be met for the Innovation Lab, all sorts of things. Roselle primarily wanted to do equipment, but there's all the other stuff that you need to do a successful space. So we had some, our Abingdon friends help us out and the Hartford County Public Library Foundation helped us out in order to buy the ancillary stuff for the Innovation Lab. Also, our experience helps. As mentioned, we already kind of knew what we were doing with 3D printing. We knew what 3D printer is we didn't want. We had lots of exploration of 3D printing. We knew that we didn't want to do ABS. We knew that whatever we bought, we would use PLA, which is polylidic acid, which is a corn starch-based polymer that also biodegraded that you leave it out in the sun for a couple of years. We knew we wanted to do that, that much we knew. We knew that we didn't want X-Typer printer, et cetera, so we could really begin to think early on what different things we wanted in the lab, what things that people would have wanted to have when we had the 3D printers at the information desk in our branch. All right, so we also let people play, et cetera. We really knew that this type of thing we didn't want. We wanted something quieter, we wanted something bigger, et cetera, a little faster. So we entered this thing with an open mind. And we also wanted to, in terms of creating the lab, we wanted to focus on our focus. We knew our focus was a digital creativity space. So we made sure we focused on that. That's what we did. Everything that went into the lab was there to support that digital creativity space. And for us, we also had to keep our message very, very simple, very easy to understand. We're creating digital creativity space. No, it is not a maker space. You want people to be able to come in and create the future. That was this feel that we gave everyone because it's really what we wanted to do. So we turned this into this. And we wanted the innovation lab also to be a collaboration space, set people from different parts of the county and all over the state to come in and truly work together. We wanted people to think together, to create the future together. And that's really what natural or organically with some help happens in the innovation lab. Before you begin all of this, you also want to make sure you have that one person in charge. A group doesn't, a flock doesn't work if they're five ducks going in five different directions. So make sure you have one person that's in charge of your project and make sure they have the power to get stuff done. Because that creates absolute accountability in your project and your program. Make sure you have some defined roles for people. Everyone has a job to do, these are your jobs. I tell you, because it's almost an unwieldy group as we'll talk about in a minute, that created this lab. And we definitely had to have someone in charge and absolutely define roles for anything. This is a basic project doing one-on-one, but it's always nice to get these reminders, especially when dealing with something new that had to happen relatively quickly. Make sure that everyone is truly, truly bought into doing teamwork. And make sure you have an honestly sized team. This is a picture of the entire Hartford County Public Library staff. This is not the whole team, but some days it felt like this was a whole team in a meeting. Some of our meetings we had 25 people who were involved in doing various things for the innovation lab. That is a whole pile of people which is why back to who's in charge. It's make sure someone's in charge and also back to defining roles. Because it's a lot of people in one place. A lot of people trying to do one thing. It's a very large moving thing. You need to control the chaos. Yes, control the chaos. Chaos is okay as long as it's controlled. And also make sure during all that controlled chaos is that you have a message clearly repeated. Okay, clear message repeated. Okay? Nicely done. Thank you, thank you very much. I love this slide. You have to make sure it's nicely done. Also it's okay if you fail in not doing this. We obviously did and we created a successful thing. But it's okay if you fail in creating this. The creation process in and of itself will teach you something about your library. Plus, you don't always have to do it our size. It doesn't have to be perfect. And if you wait for it to be perfect, you may never get it done. If it's 80 to 90% there, let it go and fix it on the fly. That's really what we did. You'll also hear lots of, this is a great thing. If you ever are doing any type of change in your organization, these are just some of the excuses that you will see. And you will hear, we heard probably a good quarter of them while doing the innovation lab from various folks. Thinking it wouldn't work. Worried about it. Oh, it's just a fad, et cetera. Which is why we didn't call it a maker space. We didn't want people to think it was a fad. It's a digital creativity space. It's something that will go on. It will last just as long as maker spaces. We didn't want people to think of it as a fad item. And in our case, our timeline, it took us seven months for the time we got the yes till the time we opened on January 15th of this year. Oh, I didn't know, isn't that brand new, hey. It's that brand new, yep. Oh, and there you are. January 15th of this year, yep. This is a picture of the ribbon cutting with various dignitaries, both those who wrote the check and those who supported us, including our county executive, the gentleman holding the big honking scissors. That is the CEO of Rosale Federal, our chief sponsor. Most of the folks in the picture are various council members, our director, our CEO, Mary Hasler, and the various dignitaries. And that's me, by the way, in the big lab coat. Nice. Yeah, and then the big check presentation from Rosale Federal also took place. Then these are just some pictures of the opening of the lab. We had great press coverage for the lab. It was nice that we had major community support for this thing. In our case, we were the first digital creativity space like this in the state of Maryland. All right, so question, anyone have any other, any questions? Again, I can't see them, Krista, so. That's okay, yeah. Yeah, actually, we do have a couple of questions here. And it may be something that you're going to address. I don't know, do you have safety guidelines or policies that you could share for use of the equipment and whatnot that's in the lab? Yes, in fact, what we do tell people we have on top of the printers, and I don't have a close-up of them and I'll show you pictures of the stuff in a moment. That's sort of the next set of slides. Our safety guidelines, we tell every single person that comes in, it's part of the wrap that we come in. These things operate at, they're about the temperature that you bake, where you bake chocolate chip cookies, right when it comes out. You do not want to touch these things. Everyone who's worked with them has touched them accidentally once, never again. You keep going, hands away, hair away, keep ties away from the top of the thing. You'll see some pictures of people who are somewhat close, but they understand that the inside of the machine is verboded, cannot do it. The lab itself is designed, we targeted six graders and up to use it by themselves. We do have the occasional fourth and fifth grader who come in and use it by themselves, some of our heaviest users are those kids. They know, and they've been there enough that they've watched us and they understand what not to do around the printers. Our biggest issue hasn't been the printers, it's been our table of cleaning implements. That's been where we've had the most safety issues. Folks sanding incorrectly, we have pliers, nippers, piercers, pokers, because when you 3D print, and that's sort of the table primarily used for to clean up, you have lots of little shavings of plastic, you have to get off of your thing to get it perfect. Yeah, there's a lot of cleanup afterwards. It doesn't come out of that machine, perfect and ready to just play with or use or whatever, yeah. Right, and the types of machines that we use, the fixed deposit ones, those really do have a whole pile of cleanup because it's fixing a piece of plastic over a layer, it's a very thin layer, et cetera, et cetera. But those are the safety guidelines. We do tell people, again, this is, oh, anyone younger than that, they have to be in there with the parent. Yeah, good. We're not responsible for kids running around, et cetera. Your kid has to be engaged in something, and you as a parent can't be on Facebook when you're in there in the lab, you have to be working with your kid on something. You have to be doing something with your kid. You can't be on Facebook on one computer, and your kid playing around on another computer. You have to be engaged with your child. And do you have specifics that then certain staff who are assigned to the lab are in charge of enforcing all of that? Excellent, all of the staff, yes, the staff in the lab are, that's part of the duties of being in the lab. I'll go over, I'll mention staffing again, completely normal, but since the questions came up, I'll answer it now. The circulation and reference staff both work in the lab at Amingen and it's considered a desk hour. So it's part of the duties of the lab. There are of course varying levels of skill, but everyone can help someone get to thingiverse. Everyone can get something onto a thumb drive to go to the printer. Most of us can do, can fumble through using our green screen. We know basic things about the Mac and the PC. We also have reference books that if we don't know something specific, here, this is a reference book. Let's find it in the index, why here it is. Here we go, go nuts. Another bit of hidden teaching in there. This is a book and you can use it, yeah. Exactly, it's not so hidden, it's pretty out there. We tell, here, this, we're not a photo mat. We look once or twice for you, but the objective is for you to come in and do it and we have people who do do that. Now, once again, someone, they got pulled away. The age for someone to be in there without a parent, is it age or by grade? It's grade, it's grade, it's grade, it's grade. Again, we have kids who are fourth and fifth graders who we know from the library, who pop in, who are heavy users of it. You don't have a hard, you're too young, you're too old. It's basically sixth grade and then if you know them, you interact with them better to get a more of a feel of, okay, you're good to be in here because we know you're not gonna do anything bad. Right, we'll kick you out. Yeah, and they probably know that too, yeah. Oh yeah. Just a quick question before we go on. You had mentioned a polymer with corn starch earlier. What was the name of that again? TLA. So with the type of printing that we do, those printers that you saw back there and most of your library-friendly printers, they're two different types of, they're two different, there's a printer called, it's Fixed Deposit FDM, Fixed Deposit Matrix, I think it is. What happens is the raw material, 3D printing is all about putting raw material in a particular order and telling it to stay there. Okay, very broad. 3D printing itself is very broad. We're very specific in what particular raw material we use, which is a PLA, which is a corn starch-based plastic. The type of printing, FDM, Fixed Deposit Matrix, you melt your raw material and then the printer lays it in a particular pattern so it builds whatever you want. Okay, the Terminator-style printer, we do not have those. The one that whatever you're building sort of rises from a bath, we don't have those. We like them, but they are expensive and messy, but we have the FDM one. So the PLA is polyetic acid. You have two different types of things you can use for FDM printers. One is called ABS, which is essentially lego-plastic. And the other one is PLA, which is not lego-plastic. ABS smells to high heaven. I've been around some of the smells, and for me, I don't know other people. It's choking, almost like toxic. I don't, yeah. It takes you back. Plus you have to have ventilation for it. You'll see it in our lab. We don't have ventilation. Well, you said originally you had that first one just out on the reference desk right out in the library. Yeah. And one or two people said that could, one or two people said that could smell something. Yeah, they said they could smell something. Really, I've done a lot of 3D printing. It smells like waffles. PLA smells like waffles because it's corn. It smells like waffles. Not bad, okay. It's not a bad smell, you know, and you have to get your nose pretty much in there to really smell it. So we use PLA for what we do. It's easier to deal with. It doesn't smell bad. Doesn't have the off gases. Go with PLA if you're dealing with most folks. If you're dealing with some sort of industrial application and you're a big research university and you have vent hoods and all this fancy stuff you want in your lab, go for ABS. You do a lot of things with it. But for our case, PLA is our entry level thing. Cool, all right. All right, any other questions? No, someone just wants to know what you have in your lab and I assume that's what you're gonna be getting into. So what did we head up with in the lab? There you go. All righty. All right, so we have 3D printers. If you notice under the words 3D, that one printer is a MakerBot fifth generation mini. The other printer there with the reel and the blue paper on it at that time is a printer bot. Now we also at the very end, all the way it's sort of in the middle of the picture, the color printer that prints up to 11 by 17 poster size. So folks can come in and print their own posters, which folks do, okay. And then the three IMAX. The IMAX were the most expensive piece of equipment in the room. I'm sorry, the MakerBot replica, the fifth gen and IMAX are about tied for expense. But those are 27 inch IMAX. We also have several books as mentioned before. We have a green screen. There are lights for the green screen. We do not pull out unless someone is coming who's booked the lab for the green screen. We also have a digital light box inside of a closet, their headphones. We also have a microphone, several cameras for people to use in the lab for green screen or other purposes. And then the printer all the way by the top of the screen is a young man in with a black shirt and yellow stripe. That is our MakerBot fifth gen. That's a big beast in the room. We also have three different keys, three PCs in the room. We designed the room. We wanted our stuff that folks use to be as much as possible platform neutral. So we use the free version of 123D design for design process. We also have Blender for designing things. Folks can also bring in their own CAD files as long as they can save them as a .stl or .ovj file, we're good to go. They can certainly print on our machines. And we do have folks who come in from their houses and bring their own things in to print. All right, any questions on the equipment that we have? So we have the MakerBot fifth gen. We have the mini and then that is the printer bot simple metal. And the printer bot simple metal was the hardest one to get up and running but it is also, once it's up and running you almost have to hit it with a bat to get it to stop. It is, I don't know, is that good or bad? That's a good thing. Okay. It is durable. The other thing you've had, I will let you know here, I would not recommend getting MakerBots for your, MakerBots fifth generation machines for your lab. We have run through approximately 30 of the cartridges. The printer cartridges are hot, swappable cartridges. You're supposed to be able to pull the filament out, throw them on and get them to work. About half of them didn't work out of the box. Oh wow. Oh yeah. Not good. Wouldn't recommend them in any way, shape or form. Plus the company went from being an open source company to being sort of very close. Yes, I remember that happening. Very close, yes. It was one of the first ones and it's got the big popular name but yeah. Do you have other ones now that you've switched to in the lab or is that still, I mean, I know you just opened this year, but are you looking into replacing it then with something better or different? We're looking, not this coming year, we're looking to add more things because the, at this point, the printers are sometimes, they're up and running more than they were because we stopped switching filament even though it was designed to constantly switch filament. We've stopped doing that. That has saved some of the wear and tear on the extruders but we still have issues with the extruders. We're at this point looking into possibly buying other stuff to supplement what's in the lab. And again, part of the long cycle of this is that we're getting an influx of money in year three. Right, that's what I'm gonna say. You said you were getting a certain amount of money each year so it's being built out gradually. So that's good. You know you've got some that you can plan to use that money to do something with it, yeah. And we're officially in year two so this year we don't get any money, we got all our money to open it and then we're sort of keeping it running. Year three, four and five we're able to get more things plus. We are working on other grants to possibly supplement other things and supplement some of the stuff throughout the system. We do a question about the 3D printers. What's the demand like for them? Do you have, people have to, is there a line? Is there people waiting a lot? Do you know how you keep that organized? Organize chaos like herding cats, no. So we, when we first opened it was truly all first come first served and that worked for a little bit. The more popular printers got the less that worked. So we also, we limit people to two hour builds on the printer. And with the software you can tell approximately how long it will print, it's a fib but we know we do our best estimate. We do reserve, when all the printers are running we reserve one printer for someone to come in and say I would like to print at this time. So we do have reservations. You can also use reservations for the green screen and for the microphone if you so need to or for the whole room if you want to bring in a scout troop or another group of kids et cetera to come in. We can do, we do customized programs in there. So we'll close the lab at times for a prior program and for our programs in the lab. But yeah, it can be, it could ebb and flow. Some days it's really quiet. We thought that after school it would be crazy and it was. Yeah. But we also discovered that there are lots of home schoolers in Hartford County which we sort of knew. And they come in during the day and they'll use the lab too. We have kids, we have adults who come in when the lab is quiet and work in there. We have one person who comes in who takes our scraps and designs jewelry from our scraps. Oh, nice. Okay. Recycle everything. Yeah. Yup. Is there any costs to print for the 3D printers? Any cost to the people coming and use them or do you guys, is that just being absorbed by you at the moment? That is being absorbed by us and that is a plan. The only thing anyone has to pay for is color printing and it is the same price that anyone pays for black and white printing all throughout the system. That's 25 cents a page. That's just a paper cost, yeah. Okay. So, some of the... Yeah. Yeah, I guess it is a paper didn't cost. We absorbed that. Yeah. That's pretty common across libraries, yeah. I think that having to pay for the 3D printing is a new thing that some libraries are trying to figure out what to do with it. You gotta buy all the materials and pass it on or not, yeah. You know, if you're getting a grant for it, the material costs, we thought it would cost a lot more. It does cost money, obviously. The reels, the reels you get from MakerBot being a McDonald's of 3D printing so you have to buy your reels from them. You have to buy your reels from them. That for various versions of the PLA filament it's anywhere from $45 to $70 for a reel that fits in the big printer. From $24 to $40 for reels that fit in the small printer. And the reels in the small printer is... That's almost a pound. The reel in the big printer is a kilo. But, and that's a surprise, but for the printer by that takes generic PLA, that's two pounds, two and a half pounds for 17 bucks. So that's a real cheap. And it doesn't take much filament at all to do a lot of these jobs. That's what's gonna be our next question is, how much does it take then? How long will that last? A couple of grams. And we're talking a couple of grams here per job. The MakerBot will tell you, and the printer bot will, through the program that we use for it, Slicer, will tell you the approximate weight of the material that it's expecting to extrude. It isn't a whole lot. We're not talking thousands of dollars worth of material per print. The University of Maryland charges, I think 20 cents a gram. Chicago Public charges, I want to say 25 cents or 30 cents a gram or some such to print. But yeah, for us, it's not worth it to us to collect that for it. And it's a two hour build. You can't build really big stuff in two hours. No, yeah, that's one thing too. 3D printing is not a fast. So just to clarify, someone wants to clarify, the MakerBot's 5 5th gen, you said you don't recommend, but is the printer bot, about that one? The printer bot is pretty good. Is there a certain model or number or something of that one? That is what the one we have is called the printer bot simple metal. So if you look at the picture, the 3D printers from left to right, the MakerBot 5th gen cost us about $2,900 and that's with a three year warranty, thank God. The middle one, $1,700 again, three year warranty, thank God. The printer bot simple metal, the 600 bucks, no warranty. But we also have a space called digital harbor that helps us calibrate and fix it if we need to. We take it down there and they help us up. They pay like 30 bucks to do it. Not bad, okay, great. Not bad at all. But yeah, the simple metal is, I would recommend for a hobbyist to get the simple metal. I've heard good things about walls bots and tazes from folks who have them, especially a lot for library applications. But again, there is, if you are all part of the American Library Association, the library leader, which is a wonderful group within ALA, has a 3D printing listserv. And folks ask the listserv all the time, questions or recommendations for things. Right, and also just so everyone knows, as we're going through this, I will be, whatever we do in Compass Live, I collect any links that were mentioned about anything and they'll be included afterwards. I'll look up all the websites for all of these products and things that Maurice has been mentioning. So you'll have quick links to them after the fact as well. Right, and Krista, we're gonna go over. That's okay, yes. I was gonna say, if you want to, that's up for our questions now. Yeah, we do officially go from 10 to 11 a.m. central time, but if we go long, we'll just keep going until Maurice is done and you guys have had all of your questions answered. So feel free to just stick along with us. If you have to leave, don't worry. We are recording and you can always watch or listen to the end of the show later at another time when you can get to it. All right, good. I wanted to get that out of the way. I produce enough of these things and you feel free to leave. I'm not going, A, I won't see you get up. True, yes. B, you have stuff to do. If you're in some of the libraries I've worked with where you and one of the persons switch off pretty much everything on the public service desk, you gotta go, you gotta go. But again, the recording will be there. Feel free to listen to it. So here are some, did that cover all the questions, Krista? Yep, all the ones we had right now, you got them all answered, yep. Excellent. Alrighty, some set up best practices. Number one, you have to be flexible in terms of setting up the lab. Some things you will get on time. Some things may not be exactly what you expect when you got them. You have to be flexible in where things go, who's doing what, et cetera. So you have to be completely flexible. I cannot stress this enough. You have to be very flexible. Because this is a lot of new-ish technology, it doesn't always work the way it says it is supposed to. Also have a sense of humor. You have to laugh at some of the things that happen to you. Things that don't work. Laugh at some of the jobs because 3D printing itself is for the consumer relatively new. It's also relatively imperfect. About one, I'd say one quarter to one-third of the jobs are complete failures. But have a sense of humor in setting up the lab too, because you'll be working with that big group. Have a sense of humor, some flexibility in terms of what you put into the lab. You also and your staff must play with the stuff. I am a huge proponent of learning by playing. And you and your staff who are personality in the lab must play with the stuff. The folks who are in the lab who are the staff have to be somewhat familiar with the things in the lab that cannot feel guilty for being at work and trying new things out, feeling that this is more play than work. No, this is work. And we had to convince a couple of people to do that. Yeah, go ahead, find something on Thingiverse. Do what our customers will do. Print something. You're in the lab, print something. Or create a green screen thing. Or work on an iMovie thing, work on a movie. Do something, record some music. Use GarageBand, do those things. You also have to encourage people to try to fail and to try again, especially when it comes to newer technologies. Some folks will try it once, say it doesn't work, and then I am out of here. But that is not the way to do it, okay? You wanna try, fail, and try again, okay? That's what you want people to feel. All right, everything scales. You don't have to do it the way we did it. If you start out with one printer in one corner of the library on your reference desk, heck, that's your innovation lab. No, that's what you can do, that's what you can do. The key is to make sure that everything fits within what your library does on a daily basis. Maybe stretch your wings a little bit. And make sure that it fits within what you can really do. You don't wanna stretch your staff too thin. Or stretch yourself too thin if you are of a staff. You wanna make it fit within and make it make sense to make it fit within your walls, okay? What they will get at your library is gonna be more than anyone else will get. So everything scales, do what you can do. With staff support, with volunteer support, do what you can do. And yes, we have volunteers who work in the lab. Also make sure you have samples of things. We have lots of pictures. This is an example of what happens with the green screen because some folks don't quite understand the green screen concept. This is someone standing in front of our green screen. And this is someone standing with a background behind the green screen. If you watch television, if you watch TV news, TV weather folks who walk in front of the map, that's what they're doing. They're in front of some sort of green or a blue screen. In our case, it's a blue screen, green screen. Also have samples of various things. This is an example of the great pyramid of Giza. As Krista mentioned, 3D printing takes a lot of time. This item is about three and a half inches high. You notice the detail inside. And it's also, by the way, this is also shot in our light box. Give it a nice background. This item took eight hours and 32 minutes to print. Not that I counted, but eight hours and 32 minutes to print. 3D printing is not a fast process. It leaves with these printers. They're not. You can speed them up, et cetera. You could do also things to speed them up. And we do tweak some minor things to speed them up, but it isn't a fast process. So we also make sure we have lots of samples. We have things that can be only printed with a 3D printer. For example, a rose and a vase. Only done with a 3D printer, a nice dragon. That is a hand. There is a group that builds hands for folks using 3D printers. Working hand. So that's obviously a scaled down version of it. But yes, you can build a prosthetic hand in a week that, if it was manufactured, would take seven to eight months to make. We also have lots of samples of things. We had samples that people, because 3D printing, especially, people get digital stuff. They get, they see a picture. They get the green screen and tell them it's TV. Oh, that's really cool. 3D printing is the one we have to explain the most. Of all the things in lab, that's what we have to explain the most. So we like to have lots of samples. So that is a rock, and you can see the stairs sort of going down the middle. It prints with the stairs in the castle. And the chain link prints inside of each other. So when you pull the print off, the chain is already linked together. Those are some very cool creative things, creative demos there. Yep, and they're easy as pie to do. The rook takes about an hour, and the chain takes about 20 minutes. So someone could walk in and say, hey, blah, blah, 3D printing, great. It told me about it. Could I have a printed sample? Sure, here's, we'll set this to print. Here's a print of the chain you can do in a half hour. Here you go. Take that with you. They can walk out with something in, you know, 40 minutes. Now some folks have issues, because of the possibility of copyright infringement, we again use a place called Thingiverse. The assumption is that everything is copied, is, you know, your copyright, et cetera, on Thingiverse or your creation, et cetera. We just have this simple thing up. This seems, we feel that this covers our backside, that we put up just like we do for our copiers. Just put it in there. Yeah, it's the same thing that goes via all the photocopiers you see around, yeah. Yep. So these are some, you know, these are some glamour shots of the thing. But what we suggest is as much as possible, especially in the beginning, is to have stuff printing all the time. People will come in, they'll wander in. Our lab isn't in the most, we have to drive traffic to the lab. So we have the printers set up so that when you walk towards the lab, you can see the printers, or you can see our display cases, and that draws your eye into the lab, but also have stuff printing. These people like to watch 3D printing, and I mean watch. So this is what the lab looks like. It's an outside shot of the lab with lots of people in the space. You see, you can hold a number of people in the space at one time. Obviously not all these people are always in the lab, but it does have the capacity for that. And folks can be doing multiple things. You can have six people working on the computer, people can bring in their own stuff. You have people talking, doing demos, et cetera, all at the same time. And we do have that at times in the lab. What is the actual size of that? So I want to know the size of the space. Do you know the square feet? The dimensions? Yeah. I would have to look at my notes. Let me see. I've done that space enough. I'm gonna guess say about 300, let's see. Probably around 12. I would estimate about 300 to 350 square feet. It's not huge, but it's not small either. I was gonna say it doesn't look for all the things that you can do in there and all the stuff you've been talking about. It doesn't look gigantic. I mean, it's something that somebody could definitely find a place in their library to do this. There may be a meeting room or a study room or something that's available, yeah. Yep. And again, it all scales. If you have a 60 foot space, if you have a 10 by 10 room for it, you know what? If you can, knock down a wall and have two things in the room. That's all you have room for. So just have two things in the room. But make sure those are the things that fit in with what your library happens to do. It all scales. If you have 10,000 square feet, oh my goodness. I'd love to have filled that with stuff, but you also need a whole lot more cash to fill out that much square footage. So again, we always have, we constantly have things printing. And again, we don't charge for printing. And our staff, this is Amy Lingam-Bach, who works in the lab. So all of our staff, again, at the branch, all of our reference and circulation staff are able to spend time in the lab. Oh, excuse me. All of our staff are able to spend time in the lab and to help customers. So we don't limit it to just reference folks, so limited just circulation folks. And we have a couple of pages who also staff the lab. So we don't limit it to your particular function at the library since to the public, we're all librarians, so they don't care. So again, always having things. We encourage folks to get close, but not too close, as I mentioned earlier, in terms of safety. You will have folks, you'll see a couple of pictures. People will sit way close to the printers. We also encourage exploration. So we encourage exploration of everything. We encourage people to sit together in groups and do things. Here, sit, do. You'll notice there is a book on the counter with them next to the iMac. So this is one of our young patrons who's sitting in front watching his thing print. That is a really big thing. And it's not just the younger set. We have adults who will do the same thing. They'll stand there, watch their things print. They will grab a chair. And again, sit there for the two hours and watch things print. Okay. Also, there's lots of hands-on engagement. As I mentioned, there is... So there is one of the things that causes some issues, little nippers to get stuff off. We really want hands-on engagement. We want people to get in there. We don't clean the stuff for them. We show you the tools here. Here is a tool. Here is a thing. Touch this. Here, we'll help you clean it. We'll show you how to do it, but you do it. We want that hands-on engagement. And here is one of our adults who is so proud of her thing that was printing. It was a cat that printed. I won't let loose that she is a librarian and wanted to print a cat. I won't make any stereotype. No judging here. We also want an intergenerational contact. We want people to... Really, it's about cross-generations. We want people to collaborate with each other no matter where they're from, et cetera. We're all relatively newbies here in the lab. And we do also, besides the staff, we also have some volunteers who are experts. This is one of our experts, Lee Butler. The previous shot was another one of our folks, Jacob. He is a design student at our local technical high school. He is one of our volunteers, as is Lee, but the shot of him before was before. When he just started volunteering. And Lee came from the Edward area, that E-DAB thing. He's one of our big volunteers. He teaches a design class for us. And we want people to really use the space for whatever digital creativity thing they have. The young gentleman in the blue shirt has an interesting story. About five minutes after this picture was taken, he said, and I quote, I would like a car. Now his mom is printing something. So he wanted to print a car. Said, okay, here you go. Here's the book. Okay, here's the program. Here's the book. This will show you how to make shapes. We let him go. And then you see this is a couple of shots of what he's doing. He's learning how to manipulate shapes, how to slice things, how to add things, how to take away things, et cetera. He built a rudimentary car in about 40 minutes. He's eight. His mother was so impressed because he said, he never does this stuff on the computer at home. I said, here, take this piece of paper. This is the name of the program. Download it and let him work on it. And he came in and a couple of weeks later, I believe, printed his car. Wow. Now he created it in the lab. That's the type of engagement we want in the lab. That's what we want people to do. That is the getting them in touch with, what do I want to do? Not, this is a really cool program to do something. This is what I want to do until you have the tools for me to do it. Okay. All right, so this is what we've been able to do because we opened a lab. So we have this lab, relatively brand new, open in January of this year, but we were able to work with our county to do something called Craft the Code, which uses Google's CS First. And we're able to do an eight week program because we had all this experience doing new technology, plus we had a portable lab now. We're able to do this eight day program, over two weeks, an eight day program of Google-led coding as a really cool program. We had a wait list. We're going to do, I think, three different sessions now in the spring because there was such a wait list to get into the program. We originally did a program for 12 young ladies and the program filled up in about four hours. So there they are, that's them coding and doing stuff via Google. It's all web-based, so we had someone from the county who helped teach along with our major leap librarian teach the course. And this is sort of the setup of our portable lab because now the lab obviously we lost the lab itself. So you see in the back there, there are the red tubs that most of the lab will reside in throughout the year and the last setup in our meeting room. We're also able to really pitch the Finch robots that mentioned we now have those robots as part of our Learn, Explore, and Play kits, but before that we had a loaner of 16 robots that we borrowed for six months and we're able to do programming with the robots because, A, we had the lab, B, again, we could easily demonstrate some technical aptitude and ways of incorporating STEM stuff into library programming. And I can't finish that mention again, our partner is the Edric Chemical and Biological Center and Ramp MD. So, remember a couple of things about this, remember. First of all, you are awesome. Take this stuff today, see if you can apply it to your library. If you can't, that's cool. If the only thing you can do is put a printer on your reference desk and put a cup and some free programs on your computers, do that. That's fine. If you can do something larger, do that too. As long as you do something with this information. All right, so thank you very much. And are there any more questions? Sure, we have a whole bunch of people that stuck around with us, which is great. Does anybody have any more questions? You wanna throw it, Maurice, before we wrap up for the day? Well, thank goodness I didn't work. You can also, obviously, contact him with his information there afterwards if you do come up with any other questions. But if you wanna type them in right now, you can and we can get them answered. As I said, while we're waiting, oh, we just get some thank yous coming through. I will be going through and making sure anything that he mentioned throughout the show, any of the equipment and programs and things that he mentioned will have links to them included in the recording. The show is being recorded right now, so that will be available to you. Everyone, I'll send you an email letting you know when it's ready. Potentially later today, maybe tomorrow, depends on how long it takes to process. Doesn't look like any urgent questions are coming in unless people are typing some really, really long, horribly, and complicated questions. Which would do our best to answer? Yes. So as part of the introduction, I forgot to mention, I do, if you are a part of the staff development folks or not at your library system, I do run a podcast called T is for Training. We've been around since 2000 and either seven or eight, I can't remember, it's been a while. I think 2008, and we're up to 170 something episodes. They're hour long, we record approximately every two weeks unless the holidays get in the way, which at this time of year, they always do. And you can find us on the World Wide Web at tisertraining.wordpress.com. Yeah, it's just a little older than our show, Encompass Alive, we started in 2009. And they record way more than we do. Yeah, I'm here every week, yeah. We're here every week except for one week in October, we do not record the week during our Nebraska Library Association and School Library Association annual conference. We're all too, I'm too busy involving that, so that's the one week. So 51 weeks out of the year, we do a show. We do have one question. The listserv that you mentioned, the LIDA I think is what they're asking for. What was that called again? It is a 3D, it's the LIDA 3D Interest Group, and I want to, here, I will look up, see if I can find a message from, see if email is working on my laptop today. And LIDA is the, they're an interest group of ALA, Library Information Technology Association, but that acronym stands for. So if you're interested in anything techie, that would be, and in ALA, that would be the group to get involved in. Yeah, it's one of the really good groups to ALA. Also, if you're in staff development, I'm also part of the Learning Roundtable, also a great group. And the, it is LIDA-3D-request at lists.ala.org. If you're a member of ALA, you can look, if you can't find anything, just go to the LIDA page and hit contact. They will get back to you almost instantly. Well, okay, that day, with some information. Yeah, and then they can get, yeah, connected to it with their communications there, yep. Yep. LIDA, it's L-I-T-A, LIDA, it's L-I-T-A. Library Information Technology Association of the American Library Association. If you go to ALA.org, under divisions, you will find LIDA, so. Yep. You don't have to do too much Google handling. Eh. Google jumping for it. All right, I think we're wrapped up. Then nobody has typed in any questions about your presentation, so. All right. That's good. At least they kept awake during, and that's always good. All right, Krista, thank you so very much for having me. Great, thank you so much, Mo for being on the show today. This is great. I know lots of libraries and organizations out there are doing maker spaces, innovation labs, whatever they're gonna call it. You can do it too. And yeah, this is some great, just showing the different things are available. And like you said, don't get scared about something big like this. There's even bigger ones, and there's even littler ones. Scale it to what works for you and what you have the money, the staff, the space for, and you know, just go ahead and do something, yeah. All right, so I'm gonna stop showing my stuff. Oh, you took it away from me. There you go. I'm gonna pull back control and show my screen now. There it goes. All right, so thank you, Mo. Thank you everyone for attending. You're welcome. Thank you all for listening to me. Yeah. The show has been recorded and will be available soon to you. I'll let you all know. This is our Encompass Live website. I hope you'll join us for next week when our topic is cataloging. Life After Mark, Cataloging Tools of the Future. Emily Nimsakant is, had to have cataloging at Schmidt Law Library here at University of Nebraska College of Law right here in town. And she'll be, well, in my town, Lincoln, and she'll be joining us to talk about what to do after Mark if you are big into cataloging. So if you're a cataloger, that's the show for you. We've also got all of our other upcoming shows here on our schedule. We're always adding to them, so sign up for any of those if you like to. Our archives, as I mentioned, are right here listed right beneath our upcoming shows. A link to our archives. All of our archives going back to, as I had mentioned, 2009 when we first started are all here. If there are, let's see if I can find one that has... Yeah. This is what we usually have recording on our YouTube channel. If there's presentations, PowerPoints, and we will have Mo's PowerPoints available here and links to anything related to the show will be available. Well, it'll be a PDF, it won't be a PowerPoint because PowerPoint is ginormous. It would be crazy. Yeah, you don't want that. That's very, very big. Yeah, you will have access to the information on the slides, though. And also feel free to call. I mean, that's a big thing. Feel free to give me, no, not to call. To contact me via email. Again, are we still recording, Krista? Oh yeah, we're still, we haven't stopped yet. We're all good. Yeah. So feel free to call me, contact me. If you need help outside of work time, I also do consulting, et cetera, and speaking gigs. I travel well. So... Yes. That also works, too. But the nice thing about this profession is that we are truly a sharing profession. Ask a question. I'll give you lots of time. If you want more, that's different. But certainly asking about, we share a lot of information, which is really awesome. Yeah, reach out to them. All right, and also Leslie Encompass Live is on Facebook. So if you're a big Facebook user, do pop over here to our Facebook page. Like us, I post when our recordings are ready. I post up here. I post reminders, like you see here of today's show, saying people could log in on the fly if they want to. So if you're on Facebook, go ahead and give us a like and keep up to date on what we're doing. Other than that, that does wrap it up for today's show. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mo. Thank you. Thank you, Krista. And we'll see you next time on Encompass Live. Bye-bye. All right, have a great day.