 So they can taste something but for other people it's like whoa, it's way too much. I want the I want the next census report to be I I'm getting older and I smoke a lot at home category But but like Japanese food is the most refined subtle flavors that I've had in Japan and they smoke like chimneys That's true. They love them cigarettes over there most of Asia Then I don't know maybe it's a white people if white people smoke our taste buds die Maybe it's the smoke in the in the kind of cheap liquor that you get from the well Make the well drink. It just kind of makes the bad cigarettes. They have better cigarettes in Japan They're more nuanced cigarettes. Yeah, they have more subtly flavored tar Robots cigarettes, or maybe they don't know that the subtleties there and they're just making the food. They don't know Well, you know, it really depends on what the food that's subtle flavor. They think it's bland Japanese food is playing. They're like, this is the discipline. Yeah This is the key to the non smokers like whoo. There's so many subtle flavors in here. It's I'm really trying hard to pick them all out really I am Really just tastes like you took one giant piece of fish and cut into the smaller piece Is that vinegar or did you rub your foot over this? Oh, please I got I got a big laugh out of Scott, so I think you're confusing Japan with California. Oh Hey, I want to acknowledge something in the pre-show. There's this bill being Introduced to secure the Internet of Things and I haven't covered it on the main show because I'm waiting to see if it gets any actual Pick up like if it if it makes it to the floor Right now, it's just a bipartisan group proposing it. So if it gets out of committee Then I think I'll talk about it on the main show. It's not a bad idea sponsors Does it have to it's got four Wow to Republican to Democrat And can they do anything about it till they're back in September, I mean, oh It's on recess right now, right? Yeah That I don't know about secure the Internet of Things Yeah, so it would require Internet of Things vendors to provide Internet connected equipment to the US government to ensure products are patchable and conformed to industry standards That's the other part of it. It really only affects us purchasing US government purchasing of Internet of Things, but the the idea is that would have a cascade effect Yeah, cuz well, okay, let's say you're just talking about light bulbs and a weird Wi-Fi enabled toaster as an example. So you have to make sure it's patchable that you can change the password from default Which sometimes devices don't do You guys heard about the Broadcom hack, I'm sure Which one? The one that Android and iPhone patched. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally like that kind of crap is scary and Apparently IOT stuff is riddled with it. Yeah Yep, I'm trying to be connected Oh I like that slogan. I'm gonna put it on a billboard not protect. Yeah, it's pretty good That sounds like it could be used for 70s free love All right, you guys ready to go Johnny on the time spot, this is great. I know Where is my? Oh, I didn't actually mean Johnny like John Schieffer. No, no, I'm taking it He's a he reacts to that the same way I do to peeping Tom Scott. Oh, okay hiding Three two The Daily Tech news show is powered by its listeners not outside Organizations if you get value from the show consider giving a little back as little as a dollar a month keeps great tech news and analysis Coming your way commercial free find out more at Daily Tech news show.com slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Wednesday, August Second 2017 I'm Tom Merritt almost at October for some reason even though it says August right there in front of me Joining me Scott Johnson in the house. How are you, sir? I'm good It's something about the ah part because on Tuesday's TMS this week I did the same exact thing and couldn't figure out why so now that you've done today feel weirdly better So we're so cold inside of our air conditioning. It feels like October Hey joining us today also philosopher and filmmaker John Schieffer is with us John Good to have you back. Thank you, sir. It's a pleasure and we'll talk a little bit more about this a little later in the show as well But you have a film that was made a couple years ago and you're working on a new project, which is a series Yes, sir algorithm is a the hacker movie calm has 10.3 million views on YouTube and My current one is called intelligent design at sci-fi and spies.com I like that your URL explains what intelligent design is about Yeah, you know what I tried finding intelligent design or intelligent design movie or show and they were all taken So I just had to you know get creative. Yeah, it works. People don't use descriptives All right Well, let's we're gonna talk to John a little bit about his position as a creator as a filmmaker as a video Producer on things like DRM and crowdfunding, but let's start with a few tech things you should know Facebook announced that faster load time will make a story appear higher in people's news feed on mobile This is rolling out over the next few weeks load time will be estimated based on the user's network speed and The usual load time of the page So the page needs to be fast and your connection needs to be fast One example would be if you're on a really slow mobile connection They won't put a bunch of videos in your news feed. Okay, fine. I still say that their big priority right now Just we should be to go make Messenger not look like a clown car covered in stickers. I think they could do both of those. Those are two different teams Yeah, okay, good. Maybe they've got the money and the resources clown car Is there a way to artificially simulate that so that I can make the videos not load? There you go There's the idea. Yeah, no, you just need a crappy connection fiddle with your Wi-Fi give it some problems Skype speaking of this software and things Skype has added PayPal integration to its Android and iOS apps in 22 countries that includes the US PayPal joins YouTube and Giffy as an ad basically new add-in services for mobile on Skype Skype becoming snapchat really in a lot of ways, but this is I guess, okay I don't know that I care to well I mean if I'm chatting with you in Skype or talking to you on a call and suddenly you're like Oh, hey, I need to pay you back for that $20 for dinner the other day. I can just do it right in Skype Don't you feel like the evolution of Skype recently? It has been a little abrupt like it's it's just kind of whoa What happened to my app kind of moments are happening my mom for example She's like virtually can't use Skype now because it's nothing like it used to be yeah Whenever they change an interface it takes forever for people that to adapt to it. Yeah hyperloop one announced on July 29th they announced Read today that back on July 29th at its 500 meter test track in Nevada It's first pod that means the whole thing not just the sled reached a peak speed of 310 kilometers per hour That's the fastest hyperloop test yet John. I know you're excited about this I love the idea of public transportation and the big issue is individual last mile kind of stuff And musk is working on a solution for that so the sooner the better for me Yeah, and this is unmanned right Tom. This didn't have a dude in it I don't believe there were any dudes or even mannequins and no monkeys no more apes no dogs nothing Yeah, I saw something recently that indicates the apes may rise up and take us over So that was that documentary war for the planet. Yeah, that's why that too. Yeah, really good documentary I hope it wins all the awards in the documentary category this year Instagram says Users younger than 25 use the app for 32 minutes a day that app being Instagram of course and those 25 and older Use it for 24 minutes a day Instagram stories have 250 million daily users as well more than a hundred and sixty-six million Snapchat reported in May So pretty good numbers for Instagram What intrigues me is this this weird little sub data like older than less than certain age stuff is Fascinating to me. I would have expected those numbers the 32 minutes and the 24 minutes to be a little more disparate, but Well, the big thing here is these are better numbers than snapchat Yeah, and the big question has been can snapchat survive in the onslaught of Instagram copying most of their features and The stock market anyway thinks no it does not look like they can Because user growth is slowing for snapchat and now Instagram stories Has people spending more time with it than people at least the last time snapchat reported numbers Which has been a while but at least looks like they're spending more time in Instagram than snapchat I mean you guys think this is the end for snapchat. Well, I'm gonna say something Sort of infantile, but I'm gonna say it Weirdly, I don't usually get involved in sort of the coke and Pepsi fight of brands or anything But I'm rooting for Instagram in this fight and I have been since the beginning Because I think snapchat is annoying and weird there. I've said it send your emails to me Shots fired at snapchat john I've also been a little confused by snapchat But I think that I think that it's going to be interesting as their user base ages to see to see how that metric plays out over time Assuming either of these exist in 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't really think this was even much of a news story I'm like Instagram's doing okay. I guess if you're really into snapchat stock This is an important thing to note. Uh, but now that I've heard you guys talk I'm cheering for snapchat to feel like the underdog suddenly Yeah, I don't want them to go away. They have an important thing to do in today's market and stuff, but I I don't know. I feel it on the one hand instagram kind of takes their ideas runs with them and does pretty well with them So you could say that's an argument against instagram, but For whatever reason snapchat just feels like a foreign land to me and instagram or where my people are So I yeah, and that's what it's always about is where your friends are and I've got more people That use instagram that I know than you snapchat these days so apple beat expectations We mentioned some of these numbers yesterday because they were breaking right as we were doing the show revenue of 45.4 billion dollars That's up 72 point excuse me 7.2 percent year over year net profit of 8.7 billion dollars That was down from last year's 10.7 billion dollars all product categories grew including ipad cut the price of the ipad and sales went up 15 Apple sold more than 41 million phones in q3. That was up just a little bit 1.6 percent from last year Sales in china fell 9.5 percent Now we mentioned that yesterday But what I didn't know when we mentioned that number is the largest decline came from hong kong sales on the mainland were largely unchanged apples spending more and research and development to up 15 percent year over year to 2.9 billion dollars And here's the big one apple is projecting revenue for next quarter of 49 to 52 billion That is a lot more than people thought they would project apple generally projects a conservative estimate And so a lot of investors that were afraid That iphone sales might take a hit next quarter because there's all these rumors About the iphone having manufacturing problems They're starting to calm down because they're like look if apple thinks they can sell that many iphone's and their numbers are usually conservative They must not be worried And finally cfo luka maestri on the earnings call said that apple pay accounted for 90 percent of global nfc mobile payments They are probably they're probably very happy with that number. Um, the the projected revenue though is interesting in that Well, at least what it tells me is that they're confident in whatever their quote-unquote 10th anniversary iphone or iphone 8 or whatever it's going to be is Significant steps forward. I'm making a narrative in my head here Why I think this is true, but if you're going to project that category And do it with some confidence to your shareholders It feels like maybe you know something and what they may know is that this is a big leap that the eighth phone is the one to get People sitting, you know on their iphone 5s is for this long are ready to go So so that as an ios and an iphone user it gets me kind of excited for what may come despite all the rumors to the contrary I think there's something really interesting that's happening with them um I recently switched from a macbook pro to an ipad pro as my primary productivity tool And that didn't used to be viable when the ipad first came out now With what I do as long as it's not hardcore filmmaking and rendering stuff the ipad pro is amazing One of the things it seriously lacked is the file management system and the new ios update is going to fix that So it's possible that a lot of people will switch to the ipad as a productivity tool once file management is better Yeah, and ios 11 is going to bring in all kinds of other improvements along those same lines So I I think that will help. I have to say this. I just have to say this We we have avoided talking about a lot of the rumors flying around about iPhones And I have a big problem with calling it a delay The news cycle does this quite often they hear a rumor That such and such is going to happen 10th anniversary iphone with with a fingerprint sensor under the screen and all of this stuff Then they hear oh, I guess they're not going to do that. It's delayed. Oh, they can't do that. It's it's it's not delayed Apple never announced anything. It's not delayed if they never scheduled it So all these like oh apple's going to face they're not facing delays And what this earnings report, which is the first piece of actual news about this indicates is Whatever they do have planned they think is going to sell well Maybe it's never been a 10th anniversary edition and that was all thog or maybe they were considering one and have decided against it But but yeah, I mean people get caught up into hearing a rumor and then internalizing it as fact And then follow-up rumors building on that and create a whole narrative that may or may not even exist Yeah, it's slightly annoying and i'm tired of explaining to people what what I actually know about it because no one wants to be that guy either Yeah Plex in the news took its live tv and dvr service out of beta on wednesday And that's today and expanded the feature to apple tv and android apps Plex also added the ability to pause rewind and fast forward live television The feature is available for subscribers of the plex past service using a compatible tv tuner And I personally know a few plex folks friends of mine who are really excited about this And then there's me who runs a very simple plex server for free and it doesn't really do any of these features You don't do the plex past thing, huh? No, I mean, maybe I will This you know, I need to perhaps be convinced But um, I think plex is pretty rad in all of its incarnations and this seems to you know This is good news for everybody who's paying Yeah, and and and by the way if you're in the plex universe at all or even considering it And you've been wondering like, uh, what's a good way to do over the air? This is the way Uh, you get one of those hopeage tuners or maybe an hd home run Uh, you put that in a place where you get good reception So it gives you some flexibility and then you can use it anywhere on your network Um, there's there's other things like simple tv and tableau that do a similar thing But but plex does so many other things on top of it. Uh, it's really really good John, I don't know if you've ever played around with any of this stuff I have been thinking about switching to a plex server instead of all my dvds and blu-rays the uh, the issue I have is that I need color fidelity and there's no real way to get that with compression and as far as i'm aware I don't think the plex server will allow hosting isos Yeah, that's a good question. If anybody knows how to do that in plex send us an email and i'll On to john. There's probably some export stuff. You could do it. Maybe yeah post production stuff But I think you're right for the most part, especially when you're talking about blu-ray high def content You are going to lose a bunch of that with compression that being said though I'm always impressed with how well everything looks to me and i'm not as concerned about that stuff as john might be But I don't really see much of a difference when i'm consuming that content versus especially with dvds because the dvds are already You know 644 80 whatever older resolutions and the upscale looks great looks great on my tv's Really no complaints here the bigger question for me is what would push me over the edge? To go with the plex pass and maybe this stuff's it Yeah, ibm and sony have developed a magnetic tape system capable of storing a theoretical maximum of 330 terabytes I didn't note the aerial density, so i'm going to try to grab that real quick here too because it's it's pretty pretty crazy But this this is huge and it's tape now granted this is this is enterprise level stuff and it's it's it's used for For storage not you know you're not gonna pop this in your laptop or anything 201 gigabits of data per square inch I'm actually looking forward to that coming out because the current project. I mentioned intelligent design One instance of it is uh is 500 terabytes. Yeah, so you could have two of these palm sized devices Yeah, that's an amazingly useful feature for me as long as long term storage backup Sony developed the higher density magnetic tape part of the system By using something called sputtering to lay down magnetic grains that are a few nanometers in size And then ibm developed the new 48 nanometer wide tunneling magneto resistive head that reads that sony also developed some lubricant That helps the tape speed through a little faster as well ibm did some servo tech magic to read the data and It's huge and fast Not to get picky about magnetic tape, but I don't know if I'd call it sputtering I think that tech should be called something else sputtering is what your broken car or your jammed up 3d printer does Well, it's kind of I mean I don't want to get too far into explaining this but as I understand it sputtering is kind of like what your jammed up 3d printer that's that's how it works because It it's able to cover a little bit cover the area a little bit better because of that I mean that the tech sounds awesome. I mean, it's I think it's funny that we're talking about tape But it's this isn't the same content. I know yeah tape in the past This is not your grandpa's dat tape everybody The first block of the new bitcoin cash fork was processed tuesday and began trading Between 300 and 700 dollars per coin 2 s dollars while the original bitcoin trades around 2700 per coin coin base the largest bitcoin exchange does not support bitcoin cash Meaning those who store bitcoin at coin base are not receiving bitcoin cash A group has threatened a class action lawsuit against coin base if it does not change the decision by the 15th of this month We talked about this a bunch on tms. Tom made a pretty good sense of this whole thing leading up to this point Still kind of wrapping my head around what a bitcoin fork means for me in the real world But it's I feel like this is going to get weirder before it gets settled to me Yeah, it's it's still early days. In fact right now as we're recording this bitcoin cash Is trading at 356 dollars? So it's spiked way up At a like 727 and then fell back down today It's going to be volatile for for a while until we get an idea of how many people are actually using it versus speculating with it How many people are actually mining it and all of that sort of thing? But you know the upshot is if you have bitcoins that aren't being held in an exchange like coin base for instance you can go through a little process to Didn't get the equivalent amount of bitcoin cash boom like that. John. You're a philosophy guy I'll make a little bitcoin blockchain thing is Has to be fascinating for somebody like you who's who's sort of Into the idea of paradigm shifts and and and having us think about things in different ways Certainly bitcoin does that in a in a month They're both like both the blockchain and decentralized currencies are intensely fascinating as an idea Um, there's a couple issues I have with bitcoin specifically Which is that most of it's used to for illicit transactions Now I shouldn't say that largely it's considered either illicit transactions or its functionality is as a standard security Meaning like a stock or bond. Yeah, not a holder of value rather than a transactor of value not and and until it switches To a transactor of value that's in common usage and the government decides Hey, you don't actually need to keep track of its value For the duration of your possession of it and pay taxes accordingly On the income of its radical fluctuating value. I don't think it's going to be very useful Mwr info security researcher mark barns has detailed a hack to monitor the audio stream from the mic of an amazon echo His hack works against amazon echoes made in 2015 and 2016 more recent versions 2017 models are not susceptible And don't get too freaked out the hack requires physical access to the target echo barns had to Pull back the rubber bottom tap into the debug pads on the base of the echo to monitor boot up Then he got some configuration information that allowed him to create an sd card that the echo would boot from So you still need physical access for this part as well Giving root shell access allowing among other things the ability to send audio to remote servers And then after that he didn't have to continue to have access to it. He could have everything sending to the server But he points out, you know, people take their amazon echoes with them traveling or something like that This this could be used or somebody In a in a very, you know Unusual situation to break into someone's house and and perform this to to use it as a tap The same way they could put a bug in your phone or something like that back in the olden days, right? I was going to say this what it sounds like is a movie tap sounds like Going into a hotel room and swapping out the the mouthpiece on a phone. It's really not that different than that except Um, that sounds like it's you know, there's a little bit of work involved But that'd be a pretty ingenious way of catching what everybody's saying in the room constantly at a pretty good fidelity I might add the the echo tends to uh, you know Make you sound real good coming in and out of it This isn't a crappy phone connection with potential interference or sort of crunchy audio to begin with So that's a little scary, you know, I don't know why higher fidelity makes me more nervous, but it does Uh, but anyway, yeah, like you said, you got to have access to the thing and that sounds like a big pain in the butt for your average You know, no, it probably would be easier to just put an old-fashioned bug hidden like an implant That's what I keep thinking or like the people who have access to break into my house easily Also have access to high level man in the middle of tax. Yeah, my phone So no exactly it is one of the points I forget to make sometimes when we start talking about I don't want that amazon echo It's got a microphone on it It's listening all the time and I try to reassure people like no people have audited this It's only keeping up to three seconds at a time just to listen for the wake word And it doesn't start recording unless it hears the wake word And yes, it might accidentally hear the wake word when you didn't mean to say it And that's a risk and it's got a mute button all this But but the whole idea of like, yeah, but there's a mic all the time Everybody who carries a smartphone with them has a mic with them all the time Folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines at daily tech headlines.com on the amazon echo and in the anchor app In the app store and that's a look at the top stories. All right intelligent design the series by jonathan schieffer coming out soon, uh, you have Made your previous works available online You're intending to make this one available online and you're crowdfunding it. I like your approach to this But I want you to explain to people as a creator as an artist What are your feelings on d r m on access control? I think that uh, I think that d r m Was a bad idea to begin with And I think it continues to be a bad idea From a capitalistic perspective It's it's better idea just to give stuff to people when they want it doubly so in the internet age Even in the past mixed tapes were handed around With cassette tapes now that now that we're in the digital age, you know, it's command c command v So so it's an active utility and and and by not appeasing to the people who want to watch Stuff when they want to watch it or listen like spotify or or apple music do they are losing a ton of money The the hackers and pirates with whom I've spoken have said that they will happily pay a reasonable fee to have access to stuff and and the and the Staggering rise of netflix and spotify and other subscription services. I think prove that out from a Real perspective of a democratization of information perspective. I think it's far worse um, the founding fathers Of this country the united states Uh, it made copyright in existence largely so that creators can make money and have a living so that they can keep creating stuff That was 15 years it has since gone on to be life of the author plus 70 years, which is Absurd and means that everything after the existence of mickey mouse will never be public domain And that I think really limits people's access to information well, but Okay, there is of course, you know, I think people can follow the argument that uh overly restrictive copyright law can reduce speech Can reduce change of ideas can be used as a chilling effect But from your perspective Even if they just kind of scaled that back isn't dr. M a good thing in helping you sell things How are you supposed to make your money otherwise? I think that is the big problem. And I don't think it's just dr. M and intellectual copyright issues. I think we are coming into Essentially what is a decentralizing of power not just not just with with intellectual property Even bitcoin is an effort to decentralize control and power the act of Creating a country based on the will of the people is decentralizing power And and that's really what dr. M kind of gets in the way of Um, I do need to make money as a creative like I enjoy ramen, but it's not healthy to eat every day My hair will fall out and I will die That's have been done involuntarily. He's speaking of instant ramen folks. Not the highly Expensive good ramen that you get at the noodle bar $7 ramen you can get at mitsuo or in japan Like totally worth it, but that's not what I eat when I'm when I'm poor and hungry. Right. Um So from that point of view like I think I think we're at the at the place where where I think dr. M doesn't do for the people who really use it Which is the big studios they have the distribution power to put everything everywhere the moment they want to So their excuse for having it is like we can they can they can make it in the way that people want it now And region encoding and all that stuff does them a disservice um For creatives like me, I think that it's at the other end where like what i'm doing with intelligent design We get to give access Uh to the decision to the green lighting of projects to people So that the best projects or the projects that people want to see rise So I I think it's it's it's an extension of copyright. It's gone too far Uh creatives need to make money, but I don't think that that's what this is anymore Now how you feeling about crowdfunding these days, uh, you're you're about 15 days away as we're recording this from the end of the kickstarter Uh, it looks like you're about halfway down Uh the the process and and you've crowdfunded previous things as well There's uh, there's been there's been some people who have done crowdfunding in a way that uh really burnt a lot of people out um, and and that's a shame Uh, but I think that that would be saying that would saying that crowdfunding is is over or that it doesn't have a place Or that you know, it's not not useful Would be like saying the internet isn't useful because nsa uses it to track us like yes, it can do that But it can also be this powerful democratizing force For any number of things It's interesting because don't you think part of having done a fair number of kickstarter projects myself, um You know, there definitely was that kind of honeymoon period where everybody was funding everything and it was super exciting It was this great new way to To to fund cool projects and then like anything that has a rapid rise and a big uptick Uh, there became you know projects that were Fraudulent or at the very least less than ethical or That fell through or that were fake altogether or whatever and you started kind of having some of those problems And even had some high level ones That made a lot of promises and didn't keep those promises, especially in the games area, which is a strong aspera strong A sector for kickstarter movies too movies did it too So what you end up with now Is I wouldn't call it a backlash, but we're definitely at that stage of like well now You know caution should be used and the kickstar has had to beef up some other rules and you know, you have all these adjustments But is it just that an adjustment and and Where do you see the future of of that kind of thing? Say five years from now when we've kind of gotten through this this more cautious era of of crowdfunding I think I think maybe it's it's like we've we have all of these amazing tools and and like like The minimum viable product idea. We're not really sure what to do with them Like the existence of a hammer before the nail You know you just you have this great tool, but what's it for other than other than bashing your neighbor on the head? We don't know Maybe we should you know wait for somebody else to invent something that's useful I think it has these powerful democratization aspects to it and that's kind of what i'm using it for the counter to that is that The issue of democratization means that everybody's voice is on equal footing Which means that there's a lot more noise to rise above and and that's that's another issue that that really makes it A questionable tool for like viability for realistic budget stuff Also, I think it's a different world when people see crowdfunding as one of their options to support things And the other being the old fashioned way Which is I pay a ticket to go to a movie theater or buy a dvd or something like that That model is I as an executive Decide to authorize a creator to do something in a way that I think will be profitable Then pour a lot of money into marketing to hedge my bet and hope that i'm right And and convince people to go see it and and there's a certain I don't think people can be fooled into seeing something That's bad all the time But certainly the needle can be moved and things that wouldn't survive on their own merits Do catch it, you know catch people into coming in with marketing if everything was crowdfunding It would be marketing up front. I have an idea I want to do and people would say okay. I want to see you execute that idea And we now right now we have a little bit of both. We have the majority of the old way We have a little bit of the new way and so people are going to be Less willing to spend their money on the new way until it becomes the dominant way Yeah, and that's and that's really what i'm trying to kind of segue into is that is that a lot of people in hollywood They simply like you cannot make a movie on the amount of monies that Being raised on crowdfunding with things like zack braff who even raised six million dollars for veronica mars Like he had other financing, which is why it ended up going on ultra violet instead of some other place that's more accessible Uh That needs to change for it to be viable for premium content level stuff and it and and and i'm trying to convince people to do that And we'll just see if it like if if it's willing. Yeah, it's one. It's that's the question is will the will that thing bear it? And if it will i'm not sure we've seen yet We know there's a lot of middle ground that it will bear in some ways. It's become a storefront it's like a place for somebody to say hey, i'm going to make a uh board game and Like get your copy here by supporting the Kickstarter, but really at the end of the day It's a store And it's a successful store for a lot of people in fact as much as it was about me creating my compilation book for my comic strip Uh It worked in that way, but it also worked as a great way to be the avenue to which they were sold So you support it you buy a thing I worry sometimes that if it gets bogged down too much in being Quote-unquote a store for people to sell a thing they're going to make And less of a let's have this idea go to full fruition You may never you may never crest the numbers you that you that you may need to do the bigger production Especially in your world I mean that's a great point because like tom was getting at if it's if if the advertising has to come first You're really only going to get to the people to the people who have investors upfront Who you know who have the advertising money budget? To promote stuff in an early way and that's that's exactly I think what the tool isn't like we already have a perfectly viable medium for that called theaters Or or other game. Yeah. Yeah, or or stores. Sure. Yeah, things like that Well, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit helps us come up with these topics You can submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show reddit.com You can also make suggestions at facebook.com slash daily tech news show Let's check in with the amateur traveler who has an answer actually to veronica's question from last week This is chris christensen from amateur traveler with another tech in travel minute First off an answer to a question that was asked by veronica last week on the show Why we hadn't covered yet on this segment the new bus service that is an overnight bus From san francisco to los angeles called ride kevin. It's because I couldn't find the tech angle Although we did talk about it on the latest issue of this weekend travel But thinking of things with a tech angle hotels.com wants you to travel abroad and they're willing to buy you a passport Or sort of what they're going to do is if you book a hotel room for an international travel They will give you 110 dollars off and that is the price of a us passport So one less reason to stay home. I'm chris christensen from amateur traveler Thank you chris and our message of the day comes from tim d who says when it comes to biometrics a good rule of thumb I don't know if tim did that on purpose but get it thumb biometrics Is that if it can be used to convict you of a crime? It's probably not great for securing your information because you leave it behind everywhere you go Using something like fingerprints for access is easy and convenient But not necessarily secure as tom mentioned adding a second factor Dramatically increases the security as long as the provider implements it securely. Uh, thanks and keep up the amazing work. Thank you tim d nice Yeah, uh Your dna is also all over the place from your hair Things like that skin cells not my hair, but somebody's Your skin cells skin flakes all kinds of stuff Uh, that's it for this episode of daily tech news show judge chiefer. Thank you so much for joining us It's always a pleasure and an honor sirs Now tell us a little bit more about intelligent design and uh, why people should head to sci-fi and spies.com and back at right now Intelligent design is a 36 hour series. Uh realistic sci-fi and spies drama thriller, uh, it is not Creationist propaganda as the title may imply to some. Uh, I've gotten that feedback It is the idea is that we can be intentional about the world that we design and how uh, that looks And uh, you can you can go check it out. It's about sci-fi and spies And you can remember that by going to sci-fi and spies.com Perfect that should be easy Uh, thank you scott johnson as well. Uh, what do you got to tell folks about today? Always a pleasure tom I would like to tell the folks who listen to this show on the daily if you'd like daily things and you Want to fill your day with even more things on the daily you can check out my daily morning show monday through thursday Actually twice on thursday's you find that uh at the morning stream over at frogpants.com slash Tms and uh, it's a little more lighthearted. Look at the world tom comes on wednesdays You get a taste of tom that that morning as well. Um always a good time. Do check it out again That is frogpants.com slash tms or wherever you get your podcast Thanks to everybody who gives a little value back for the value they get from the show including alex mcquilkin Jeremy esposito patricia fernandez and many many more at patreon.com slash dts Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com. We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m Eastern 20 30 utc at alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv Our website is daily tech news show dot com and our guest tomorrow is my co-host justin robert young talk to that This show is part of the frogpants network Get more at frogpants.com I hope you have enjoyed this brover Good show you guys stream the morning stream Great titles. Yeah, what do we got? We got uh scott snaps on snapchat Instagram is where my people are It's not delayed. You're just wrong Unscheduled delayed rewinding back to tape That's tape is the future drm digital rights digital resultsless management There's a version of that diminishing results management uh skype pal Now your grandpa's that to tape I like digital wrong management digital wrong management. Although that's a w Yeah, you have to misspell it Which is I think ironic, right even ironic spell of the w You ran a crowdfunding campaign didn't you tom for your book? Uh, no not for my book I've run kick starters for fsl tonight and oh well for tense day. Yeah, I was I was for um For the comic book. I ran a kick starter and then you know what I take that back I see you're talking about ink shares, which is in fact a crowdfunding campaign. I kind of forget That that's that that definition. Yeah I feel kink shares is very much pre-orders But it is exactly what we're talking about where you go and say like, hey, I've got this book If enough of you pre-order it we'll make it. Yeah, I'm I'm convinced We could have probably talked about this on the show It would have been a good thing I guess the people after the fact will hear this but It could be an interesting discussion to talk about that specialization effect Like maybe that's the future of this stuff where ink shares zeroed in on books. Yeah. Yeah crowdfund books make all of the tools Significant to that process and like if there was an ink shares for movies or tv And there's already I forgot the name of it, but there's that video game one that a bunch of them jumped out of made Ah, I forgot the name of it, but there's that there's an attempt there There could be attempts with other hot categories like the board gaming stuff on kickstar is huge So I can see that being its own thing but really specialize and and service that kind of attention Could be the way to do it. I mean ink shares is sort of proving that out It's right because you don't have to raise all the money To make the book like you would on Kickstarter You have to just raise the orders To get make it worth the while for ink shares to do the production of it So they they take out half of the of the Of the process out of your hands and act like a traditional publisher Yeah Yeah, I like that. I do a lot So you could do a movie studio version of ink shares that's like we'll do promotion and distribution and And screenings and all of that if you can get enough people To say yes, we'll we'll pop down money for a ticket There was a recent sci-fi movie that came out a few months ago called colossal and they're kind of taking it in the direction of of After the crowdfunding sites end Or beyond them we can go to The the production company itself being democratized on the same level that that a Kickstarter campaign Might be except not on Kickstarter anymore. It's just direct And and the government because because of companies like Kickstarter Paving the way for other companies the government is kind of like reconsidered qualified investing in those kinds of things so that Uh People can get a return Without having to be a qualified multimillion dollar investor. Yeah. Yeah, so those those are also probably possible directions It could go like I said, it's I just think it's a new cool tool that we have And we really don't know what it's for it's it's it's for whatever we use it for Yeah, to be determined kind of well, and I and I do think that if it lasts Which right now it looks like it will like it's survived some of those early death blow type things like You know hoaxes and shit and stuff like that um eventually People will start thinking of it as a normal way to shop for their entertainment Well, like like like like what blogging eventually created the venue for you guys to be able to do this Which is extraordinary. Yeah, and and you know, it could we we really don't know what it is right I just hope that that that unlike blogging leading to to gawker and fake news kind of stuff That it it doesn't eventually just people get burnt out so that there is no true source for anything I feel like that's just a natural media cycle. I mean the the fake news of the 1700s was pamphleteers You know and it's like ah the darn printing press made it so that anybody can print up lies about thomas jefferson and Uh, you know, I mean eventually you can't all first was similar stuff Oh, yeah, yellow journalism in the early part of the 20th century is absolutely We go through these cycles where that happens and then the industry's sort of Rally and say okay, let's come up with best practices to prevent against that and the market drives out the worst practices And then you know cycle rins repeat Yeah Geez, what was that? I don't know Sorry, is that me? No, we can't know it sounded like someone was coughing in a wind tunnel Yeah Huh That was really weird. Yeah, I hope whoever that was is okay No, it might have been uh Oh, you know what it's because I pop a window came out open longer What was it advertising out of curiosity? Uh, you know what today and screams near you I kind of disclosed it without faking because I can't I can't I can't hear it Like but I can't hear it Why is that that's weird. Well, that's that's what I'm trying to figure out. Yeah, I can't hear things Um, because that's not the ideal setting. No, it's not obviously This is black jeopardy. This is jeopardy. Yeah, we hear that So why can you hear that and I can't I should be able to hear that Roger's still working on the the settings Man, this is really chafing my head Because I can hear your I'm calling this diminishing results management. What do you guys think? I like it. Yeah, sure good No Kenan every Williams Kenan Thompson Ah, okay Like who the heck is that you guys are So I have a question for you, Tom This is kind of something that's been weighing on my mind for a while I was like as I promote stuff as an independent guy And as a philosopher and journalist, I think you'll find it an intriguing question Like I'm kind of like Where how far can we you and I become friends before we start compromising journalistic integrity? Oh, you mean like optical question, I love it where where Hypothetical because I really like you and I like some other reviewers Sure, sure and and and so if I were to say go see John's work people should stop trusting me because I like John I'm likely to I mean, I think that's just natural bias The the stuff that that I worry about is when when John is paying me which is not Or were things like that where I I'm really motivated But I don't think people being friends is any different than people just having really liked a series And so the future versions of the series. They're more willing to what to like as well Yeah, I would also add to that that the podcasting world is so Back patty like we're always helping each other out and and I mean that in a positive non pejorative way like There's real value. There's a currency and My audience is exposed to you your audience is exposed to me We are exchanging Audiences in a way that you couldn't do in any other situation and we can do projects together that turn into cooler things down the road and I mean, I feel like that's I know what that this is or could be and I think as long as you're up front about it I don't like pretend like oh, I've never met him before and I'm now looking at his movie for the first time Like you just have to be clear Uh and transparent and I think it's okay Well, I think Scott you got you touched on a point I think one of the issues that I was trying to promote with I am trying to promote with intelligent design Is that the real currency isn't the money. It's the people And in in democracy the more people you can get to do stuff the more effective your change will be and you guys are kind of like sharing The audience that you built over years Yeah And like I I try and pimp your stuff when it's possible and well, thank you I crossed over because like I said, I like what you guys do and I like you as a person Yeah, so that's uh, I think those are You know as long as we're not like if we started this show and say here's a stranger to us who we've never spoken to before who we are going Like just to real open about it like dude. I totally dug your book or I loved your movie Or I checked out your drawing or whatever whoever it is whatever it is That kind of transparency is also part of the equation. I was describing earlier. Yeah So as long as it's not like like, uh, what is it called native content? native native advertising Right as long as there's no like quid pro quo Because I'm not requiring anything of you. You're not requiring anything of me. There's no money changing hands I I think that I think people are pretty used to that sort of like, oh, yeah I I show up on his show. He shows up on my show or you know the equivalent thereof if it's not both shows Plus I just you know, I you don't see it but I I don't have people come on the show if I don't like what And you you're never aware of that because they're not on the show Cool. No that that that really as long as as long as money doesn't change hands Ethics are clean pretty much or or the equivalent of money. Yeah, all right and even and I I don't do this I I'm too old school, but I know people who who are like, oh, yeah This guy paid me to look at his device and I'm reviewing it on my youtube channel And I'm telling you that he paid me and and people seem okay with that These days as long as you're up front about it Yeah, like one of the one of the crazy things about youtube I I probably should have gotten into this is the the other side of drm is by by putting algorithm on youtube Which currently gets 5 000 views a day Algorithm is currently making 15 dollars a month in advertising Just sitting there Yeah, well, yeah, so so do the math you end up with like, you know 180 000 views. Yeah, I'm getting 15 bucks. Yeah. Yeah Well, it's because of the scale YouTube looks at that and it's like, yeah, but we're doing this many billion views a day And the people who have a million views a day are making a lot more money It actually I thought that's what it was too and I checked into it. Uh, it's their new, uh Once once they started governing polls because I made uh, well it isn't even that it's because, uh I made a movie for adults and they're curtailing their advertising Uh, AI toward children based content. So my stuff because youtube kids is so hot. It's it's really only being Monetized by 5 000 views a month. So that's seven by 15 dollars is the 5 000 views a month Of people who want to advertise to people with actual money and that's always, you know And people I know a lot of youtubers look at that and they they start crying foul And and I look at that and I'm like, oh, yeah, that was like when buzz out loud was getting 2 million Uniques a month and they couldn't sell it You know and that was a company like you're you're basically bad at the same issue Like how do we get people to advertise on a show about drugs? You're you're Whenever you're outsourcing your sales to someone else Uh, you're at the mercy of what they can sell and even if you were selling it yourself You may not be able to find buyers for it All the time so It's it's tough And that's why I think that sales is just you know advertisements are just one Way to fund things and I'm glad we're exploring all of these different Opportunities and we haven't talked about patreon, but obviously that's working for dTNS is to say, hey We'll give you the show if you like it you keep it going by funding it And if you fund it a little more we'll give you a few extra things Yeah, one of the writers on my uh on on intelligent design He and his fiancee Have a youtube channel and they don't monetize it all they they well they do only through patreon And it's and it's enough for them to Almost be ready to quit their day jobs because you're cutting out the middle man there See when for instance when buzz out loud had all these viewers, but they weren't selling it It was because the companies were saying well We don't want to take the risk of giving you money because we're not convinced that those people who hear our message will spend their money with us And when you cut that out and say instead of you Go spend money with this other thing Because we'll get a cut of it and you'll support the show you just say hey How about you spend less money directly on the show? And we'll make more money and then everybody wins Yeah That's a good argument. I'm gonna keep that. That's my argument now. Yeah me like it it changed the whole dichotomy being able to just go direct to so is frog pants put primarily patreon then Yeah, so I do I shouldn't say primarily there's some ad money in there too But it's mostly that like my morning show is almost entirely that um like dtns it's almost entirely a crowdfunded project, but then other shows on the network With various degrees of listenership and or exposure or whatever some have ads some don't I have a general frog pants patreon. That's just sort of A throw in for anybody who's not into the tms thing and is looking for another way to support it So it's a little ramshackle partly because when all that stuff came we were already like tom and I are a good example of this um And he got lucky with dts in my mind because he launched the show right around the time patreon was Literally just starting totally. It was a perfect marriage of timing and everything else In my case, it's like I've been trying different stuff over the years all these different methods. I sell stuff in the store I have we have special Stuff people did before that was kind of patreon like except we ran it ourselves Then patreon came along and it automated a lot of that So there's a lot of spaghetti on the wall still sticking from old ways of doing it but um But yeah, that's that's a big way of doing it that we do it now I remember when patreon came out they weren't allowing for uh, international pledges or is that has that changed do you guys get okay? Yeah, you can do international now You guys are just a fount of knowledge, man Get this we're just it's leaking out of this. Yeah, I'll take Yeah, I just I just wish one of you could tell me why I can't hear anything. It's it's Bugging the heck out of me. Is your computer plugged in? Have you tried? Restarting it What's the name of the program you're using roger? I'm using voice meter voice meter m e e t e r I think I know what that sound was I was going through uh, Unfortunately, I was going through my in Inbox of my gmail. You know how I get those weird emails Uh people that not the make sounds Well, no, but I unfortunately I clicked on one of the links for it Never click on links I'm curious because some of this stuff is just I'm curious. I want to get malware I have never actually no, so the screaming was actually your computer sobbing Disease to death You know what? You would not be very far wrong Yeah Thank you all for having me. I appreciate it to no end and uh, I I like what you guys do and And vice versa. It means everybody go visit sci-fi and spies.com and check out the trailer All right, we'll see you guys tomorrow ciao