 Thank you for staying with us. You're still watching the breakfast on plus TV Africa, and I'll sign for a second hot topic So it is said that seven out of ten girls in universities have Been in some form of sexual harassment in Nigeria and that is quite sad So we're talking on why the president should sign the anti sexual harassment bill to law and today We have a guest on mobile me or grotesi me She's executive director gender mobile initiative, and she'll be shedding some lights on this topic. Good morning. Oh, oh me Thank you for joining us Thank you, okay, so let's get straight into it We have seven out of ten girls being sexually harassed that's even in universities We're still talking about workplace harassment. We're still talking about people on the street sometimes getting raped and all Why do you think it's important that the president signs this bill to ensure that girls are not being harassed sexually? Thank you very much for that question I think it's provided a bit of background already with the statistics that you just shared You know, which is even a very recent statistics I think that statistics and how come of the research conducted by the World Bank survey I would say for a fact that sexual harassment I've assumed a critical dimension Seven out of ten is an epidemic proportion I would say that it's actually that's actually become a pandemic and as such it's important that The president actually signs the anti sexual harassment bill into law It's quite unfortunate that our citadel of learning and become the center post of sexual harassment I imagine that you know, several years back environment of learning would probably also assume the same You know position of our churches as a mosque because there are places that are you know, supposedly As used to the places that are safe places that people can seek refuge and fortress Unfortunately, you know the reverse is the case these days And Okay, I think we lost our audio for a bit But yes, that's that's quite a very sad statistics seven out of ten girls and I know there's this thing Yes, and then there's this thing whereby you know students go to school and then even your lecturers who are supposed to be impacting knowledge into you are You know asking you for sex sex for grades I think there was even there was like a report on that several years ago and Sometimes people don't even have a choice It's either you're being raped or then they coerce you into You know in such acts and that is that is quite sad because you would expect that these are the same people that should Ensure your safety that are trying to like teach you the way to go ensure that you're becoming a better citizen And then they'll come in and harassing you sexually. Yeah, well When we come back if we move we will come back I'd like to know the provisions of this bill that they're proposing that it be passed how and come passing it is because If we're trying to protect the girls, we also will also will be thinking about for me I think everybody should be considered in the bill Sometimes but very few boys also go through sexual harassment Either from male lecturers or from female lecturers as the case may be they also go through this I don't know if it is also captured in this In this bill and then we also find students sometimes that are initiating these things Like lecturer, I didn't have time to do your assignment. I can do anything language and it becomes So common that the lecturer begins to feel entitled to it at some point So what will be done also to these students that initiate this if they can also be Proven to have initiated it if these things are covered by the bill then everybody will know that if I behave myself The bill will cover me the bill will protect me and all that so I'd like to know what the provisions of the bill are Because if it is just one sided for me as a person I I wouldn't feel it is complete enough because when you're talking about injustice. It has to be for everybody gender based Yes, well the more the most The most vulnerable are the women What about the few men that have to go through all this trauma? Do we have to pass another bill after this one? So all those things would like to know what the provisions of the bill are Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's super important that everyone is covered in a bill Even if it Let's move universities aside even in homes You know, you see this auntie or this friend That comes and harasses Fathers and mothers we've seen mothers who have given birth to children for their own sons We've seen fathers who have impregnated their own children So we don't even look at uncle sometimes is there uncles and aunties that protect the people from their own parents So It's it's a general thing that we cannot single out a particular type of people that do this Because anybody can do it. The most trusted people can't do that And most times you say that way Because it is you need to trust someone before you can follow that person to be kidnapped For for instance, I'm not saying the one that they do wonder what's and all that Some people come to the house give you a child's sweet and all that it's a trusted person and kidnap that person Or rape that person. So sometimes Oh, sometimes it's the people that you trust that do these things fathers mothers aunties Bosses can we talk about the workplaces? Bosses. Yes And even employees There's some employees that will enter your DM and you'll be wondering whether in another life you were married So it's it's it's all encompassing. So if this bill can can cater to the needs or the protection of all Aspects, I'll think it is good enough But if it does not well, we'll have to find out from a moment why it had to be Just one gender. Yeah That is what it is. Yeah, I mean I understand that right now They are fighting for the females which we would not take from that But we're just still saying that it would be nice To also put the men there as well. So we know we we don't report that kind of thing Sometimes the men I think it's an ego thing. Like you don't want nobody to know that such has happened Every man was born proud and every man never grows beyond being a baby. It's just the right circumstances The right buttons and you press. Yeah, we know that You know that the world is ruled by by women and we just have the brute strength. That's all But you know, even if you go to your house as a married man and you have a Wife that you've been married to for 30 years. You still don't know where the matchbox is Simple as that. So women rule the world Like I always say What a teardrop can achieve wars cannot achieve. So women rule the world But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about vulnerability and we're saying everybody is vulnerable. We may just want to put very stiff penalties or stiffer penalties for people who are the culprits of this whether they are the Ones that initiated it whether the way Fossilty done We should we should just know That everybody that commits a crime Or does that thing which is not good to us will face a penalty that is something I I think sometime last month it was in the headline There was a lady. I think a politician or something and she was talking about People for instance men who rape little girls So pedophiles, they should be their genitals should be cut off and that should be the repercussion And I think we took it in off the press because that acts the guest If he thinks that was too extreme and obviously that's quite extreme because it's barbaric But yes, I think there should be things in place. So for instance, is the person going to serve A prison sentence and how long would that be before they come out because sometimes you see the fact that a lot of these people would Um, rape people let's let's take like a rape case for instance A lot of people rape someone they go to jail two three years. They are out again And we've seen people yes, they come with the same crime over and over again because the punishment is not as See there is not as grave. So you feel like oh, I'll just serve how many years Don't understand. It also says something about Psychology or mental health of people and how we take it in this country. Sometimes these people Are not mentally okay. So it's it goes beyond sending someone to prison Why are you sending him to prison? Why did he do the reason? Have you done any evaluation? If you do any did he do what he did because of something else Not just because he was in his right senses and he did that if there's something else can you address that because We should be thinking about corrective measures sometimes not only punishment punishment punishment Your last mouth is how you go and hide so that someone will commit a crime I know that happens a lot of times what happens to you trying to direct the person to do the right thing and all that Okay, I'm on me Okay, fantastic. Can you hear me now? Yes, we can hear you. We lost you for a bit Okay, so I think I was just saying, okay We have established a background to that we'd like to know the provisions of this bill So that we know how far it goes and why it goes that far Absolutely. So the bill actually offers a very promising solution to the You know to the scale of the problem so first is that the bill seeks to preserve the sanctity of Educator and lenders fiduciary relationship And we all know for a fact that fiduciary relationship is a relationship of trust Authority dependency and respect for human dignity as a matter of fact You know the this particular bill criminalizes the offense of sexual harassment And makes it an offense of strict liability Which means that it's not an excuse that the students actually consented to you know being sexually harassed But the student consented to being in a sexual relationship with the educator because the bill actually acknowledges that When we talk about unequal power relations, the person on the other end of the stick clearly lacks capacity to give consent The bill also makes it an offense of vicarious liability Which means that every institution of our learning is obliged to ensure that it maintains the minimum standard to ensure that the environment of learning is safe And ld for everyone to thrive and have educational experiences to avoid sexual harassment And again the bill actually explicitly defines patterns of sexual harassment It might just seem to know that we have a problem with definitional clarity It's not that we do not have existing legislations. We have the violence against persons prohibition acts of 2015 You know which 35 states in Nigeria were domesticated But the offense of sexual harassment is a serious problem that requires a dedicated piece of legislation We have the icpc act that also addresses sexual harassment as a form of power abuse We need more than that We also have the criminal law of legal stakes that provides for the offense of sexual harassment And upon conviction, you know you're liable to a jail term of three years But all these legislations that I just thrilled out do not comprehensively address sexual harassment It doesn't provide for you know step-by-step grievance redress mechanism. It doesn't provide for compensation So big things of sexual harassment. It doesn't provide for good formal and reporting I think we've lost her again. The audio seems to- We've lost her audio again Yeah, we've lost her audio again We've lost her audio again. Well, technical glitches happens all the time But yeah, I understand what she's saying. We have all of these laws But we need something a bit more comprehensive and from what she's saying I think this is more about the universities So they're talking about lecturer and student relationship and the trust in between the lecturer and the students And the fact that the student cannot really consent because the lecturer is above so I can influence That's that's debatable anyways Yeah, it is debatable, but it's understandable too Because most times if you have someone who's higher than you You can't we you can say no, but then you're thinking if I say no What we happen? I might get failed or if I'm working with someone I might get fired So there are a lot of things that could happen and so therefore if the lecturer is asking He becomes the criminal Now if they let's use a lady now because it's not the guy The lady now the student is asking who becomes the criminal Well, the lecturer again I think it should be both and the reason why I say this is because First the student asks for it. So first you're ready criminal Then the lecturer who consented I mean you are in a place of authority. You should know better You cannot consent to Having sexual relations with your students for quarreling out loud. You've you've seen in other cases I think there was a there was an actress her partner Used to be like a football coach or something and then he had sexual relations with another person on his team And they fired him for that because you are in a place of authority So you should know better you cannot consent to that even if someone is giving you a proposition and saying this is what I want You should say no Because of this relationship that we have students lecturer relationship It cannot happen if I wasn't your lecturer and maybe we fell in love in another place Why not was for right now we can't Anyways, I think our mom is back, but we're kind of out of time Oh mommy, I want to know if you have any landing points on this bill So I just want to say that at the moment Nigerian students. Can you hear me? Yes, we can Yes, so I just want to say that at the moment Nigerian students are rallied round and in solidarity Okay, the audio is out again. Well, this this is um, this is a continuing story as it says the bill is still out there and the the campaign is Is it lend or give a pen to the president or something? It shows that the reason the president is not signing this bill is probably because he has no pen It was funny when I read that But so we should we should try to donate a pen to the president and sign it so that I can sign it. I have one here The donating that that's a presentation Okay, but it is really important that we define these things no matter what we're saying Even in elections. There are some things that we thought were very good and after holding election in 2023 We saw that they needed to have defined this thing properly properly So if you leave things to chance a lot of look holds can be seen and exploited which is not good for us so In spite of the fact that we have all these laws put in place we should have Like she said we have a problem defining things. We should define everything as much as possible Well, all right. We should wrap it up to this. It's been a good week. I mean it's the weekend. I'm excited for the weekend. I want to rest and Have some fun with my family and friends. It's the Christmas season. Come on We're all going to have fun no matter how it is sleeping alone Especially if you leave in Lagos, but let's do the game on Monday And we're hoping you're going to have a wonderful weekend. My name is Nyam Ghul My name is Rumeb Paulson. Have enemies in weekend