 Welcome to another edition of Thinking Things Through, Thinking Critically in Critical Times. I'm your host, Michael Sukoff. Today we have with us Peter Phillips, Professor Emeritus at Sonoma State University in Cotati, California. We're going to be discussing radical sociology, democracy, and power. Welcome to the show, Peter. Hi, Michael. It's great to be on with you. Same here. In addition to being a Professor of Sociology at Sonoma State for over 20 years, where you taught courses in political sociology, sociology of power, sociology of media, and investigative sociology, you were Director of Project Sensor of Nonprofit Media Watchdog Organization from 1996 to 2010 and President of the Media Freedom Foundation from 2003 to 2017. You were also co-host of the Weekly Project Sensor Show on Pacifica Radio in Berkeley, California from 2010 to 2017. And in the interest of full disclosure, I was a co-host with Peter on some of those shows between 2016 and 2018. Peter, is there anything you'd like to add briefly about your background and interests? Well, no, that's great that I officially retired from the university two years ago, but continued to teach classes until this last June. And we now live in Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is very fun. All right, great. Well, as we've discussed, this program seeks to help our viewers and listeners learn to think critically about important issues in the world today by showing them ways of looking at and thinking about issues from deeper, more critical perspectives. This includes learning how to question the ways in which these issues often are presented to us by the mainstream media. So, Peter, before we begin, let's give a brief definition for our viewers and listeners of what radical sociology is, and what does the word radical mean? Well, the word radical means addressing issues at the root. What is the root of the problem? What are the main concerns? And often, political understandings and social awareness is incidental. It's not grounded in what's really happening or who's making decisions in the world. So, critical sociology is analysis of power and elites and how much control and influence they have over us as citizens in our daily lives and in control of the media and the stories we understand in here. And our research at Project Censored was the identification of important news stories that the corporate media didn't cover. And that was ongoing now. It's in this 47th year. And it's quite an amazing thing as universities all over the country will submit news stories they think are important and haven't been covered by the corporate media. So, it's an amazing kind of process that we go through every year. Yeah, I can't really add much to that, but I did want to point out that the way that the term radical is used in our mass media today, usually it's used to refer to like a fringe or what's been called an extremist point of view. And as you rightly point out, that's not the original meaning of the term at all. Radical means going to the root of things. Exactly. I mean, the use of the word radical is in itself a compromising of the term by the power elite to imply that if you're radical, you're a conspiracy theorist or you're in some way not to be trusted. And that's absolutely wrong. Radical research is looking at the roots of what's going on and identifying how decisions are made and who's in power. Right. And, you know, just to reemphasize the point about the word extreme or extremism is all over the media these days. It doesn't matter whether you're left, right or center. Any group that seems to be, I guess, out of the mainstream is called extremist. And I'm wondering if use of this kind of language is dangerous in a way. Well, it's it's only dangerous if people are understanding it the way the corporate media is labeling it. And you have to be aware that that, of course, what is the content of corporate media is corporate, you know, their point of view. And the big MSNBC and Fox and all of those are clearly in the in bed with their corporate owners in terms of the kinds of ways they cover issues in the world. Absolutely. Now, let's talk briefly about how your own work as a sociologist and media critic reflects this kind of perspective. And how does your work relate to radical sociology? Well, I have focused throughout my career on global elites or the elites in the United States, the powerful people, the one half of one percent of the world population that owns well over half of the wealth of the world. And so that's been a continuing theme of mine. For 14 years, I was director project censored. And I really focused a lot on on the media and the kinds of coverages that the media wasn't providing. But I have always held the idea of of elites and power. My dissertation was on the Bohemian club based in San Francisco and with their summer encampment that was up on the Russian River in Sonoma County right by where I lived. And those folks every year get together a couple three thousand of them and play together, drink together, and have conversations about what the world needs to do and where it needs to be developed. And these are elites from all over the world. This is just one form of the Bohemian club is just one form of elite interconnection. But they really meet each other, you know, through boards of directors and policy groups, like the Atlantic Council and the Trilateral Commission and those where they are really setting agendas for the world governments to follow. Yeah, and your recent book, Giants to Global Power Elite provides a lot of empirical evidence, not only for the existence, but existence, but for their interconnections globally. And would you want to say a little bit more about that book? That book is about global capital and how it's concentrated today. Five years ago, 17 major corporations, money management corporations like BlackRock and Manhattan Bank and those each had over a trillion dollars of assets that they were managing. Collectively, those 17 trillion dollar giants had 40 trillion dollars of wealth that they managed. And most of that is money that they are managing from the upper 1% ownership class in the world, which, you know, there's a few thousand, 27,000 millionaires and 2000 plus billionaires in the world today. And 80% of the people in the world live on less than $10 a day. So that's a, what I would call a critical analysis. And when you just point out the differences of inequality in the world today, with most people are in debt or have zero wealth. And for the middle class in the US, mostly it's the only wealth they have is in their home if they have a home. And that inequality compared to people that are billionaires and multi-billionaires. And of course, Musk is the richest, 180 billion. So it's an amazing analysis that it isn't just about individuals because the managers of all this money are these giant investment companies, Vanguard, BlackRock, JP Morgan, Bank of America, Barclays that can, that they make the decisions where these trillions of dollars are going to be invested. And an update on that or a look at that today, it's closer to these 17 companies have probably close to 80 trillion, maybe even 100 trillion, we're running the numbers right now, which is well over half of the wealth in the world. And this is the free flowing capital. This is the money that's available. And that doesn't count companies that, you know, their investments and their portfolios that include the buildings and patents, and that sort of thing that have great value as well. We're talking about the cash in the world. And that is highly concentrated, managed by these companies. And these companies are all interconnected, they're all invested in each other. So it's one giant web of global capital that's managed by fewer than 200 people. And we look at who these people are, they're all multi-millionaires and they're on these boards and they get free stock. So this is what I would call a critical analysis of a global elite class that owns the world and their decisions of continuing to, you know, sell gas and oil are very harmless in many ways. And, you know, but they have more money than they know what to do with. And so they're constantly looking for other ways of investing capital. And how the U.S. has accommodated that is the wars that we've engaged in, starting in Vietnam and even going back to Korea and then, of course, in the war on Iraq and the Middle East and all of that is very profitable for these companies because it's money spent on weapons and technology and that to wage war. And they make huge profits. So war making is a major part of the elite class's ability to continue to expand and grow and give returns in five to 10% range for that, for that wealth. Peter, I'm imagining that someone who's watching or listening to this conversation now or reading your book, they might be very discouraged. And one of the things that I, the question that I keep coming back to on this show is what can the ordinary person do about all this? And let me just say that, you know, if we're going to the root of a problem or thinking critically about it, we're not doing it just to do it, right? We're doing it because that information and knowledge could somehow be useful. So, you know, it's, I'll come back to this issue at the end, but it's the issue of political power and agency. What can a citizen of Hawaii, of the United States of the world do in the face of these overwhelming problems? That's always a very valid question. And I think part of what our research is, you know, critical theory research in sociology is about creating instruments so people can understand what's going on. They can understand the power and inequalities. They can understand that both the Democrat and Republican parties are in support of this both fully to varying degrees. And they meet the agendas of the elite and capital. So governments in the West in particular work entirely. Number one priority is to protect their capital and ensure that it continue to grow and expand with good returns. So that is an important piece of doing this kind of work so people can understand it. Once if you understand what's happening, and then you can start to be a critical voter and engage in questioning and finding candidates that support a position of greater equality and wealth sharing, that's vital. And very important part of this, of course, is the environment and the environmental crisis we're facing now. And elites just aren't willing to cut back and make the changes that are necessary to, you know, prevent our environmental collapse in the world. And on this note, yesterday, President Biden spoke, I think he was at some kind of reception in Massachusetts, he spoke about the climate emergency as an emergency. But he didn't officially declare a climate emergency, which would enable him to use his authority as president to take some major steps to address it. And you know, meanwhile, we have temperature records being shattered all over the world over in Britain over the weekend, heat waves all over the planet, severe droughts. So I'm wondering what would it look like to bring a radical sociological perspective to this issue, both to understanding it and figuring out ways to address it as a voter, as a citizen, or as a member of a social movement? Well, the awareness of what's going on and how that plays in the political process is a vital understanding for people. And there's a sense, I mean, people know that there's an elite, they know that there's really rich people. What they don't understand often is how the networks of these people, the managers of this capital, influence their lives on a daily basis. And how the government is primarily concerned with protecting Wall Street and protecting stock profits and that. So what's happened for people in just the last six months is that, you know, you could get a mortgage under 3% even last summer. And now it's double that. And so you're going to buy a house, the average house in the US is 400,000 plus. That's a huge increase in your mortgage when you start saying you're at a 6% rate instead of a 3%. And that's something that people should understand. And that is designed to keep inflation down, even though we're running 9% now. That's designed to not allow it to run away because they want to protect the bond market. And that's one of the safe places that Global Power Elite can park their cash as in municipal bonds and bonds that they can buy. And they get a 3% or 4% return, but it's guaranteed money and they don't have to pay income tax on it, which is just a benefit for the wealthy to park their money somewhere where it's completely safe. Now, so you made reference to citizens empowering themselves through the vote. Let's talk a little bit about democracy and radical democracy. The term democracy is also bandied about frequently, especially in the corporate media. One of the tropes we hear often is our democracy, our democracy. So first of all, what is democracy and then what is radical democracy to you? Well, democracy is citizen decision making and that should trickle up from the bottom and influence who's in power and how they got there. That's not how it works. I mean, the parties collect bona fide candidates they consider will be good for the party and good for capital and good for the rich and protect investments and the stock market. Both parties will push forward people that are in that area. And then, of course, we've had the neoliberal agenda that's been with us now for 20, 30 years, a very conservative agenda that limits access to voting, trying to limit people what they get, what kinds of things they can say. So when we talk about democracy, we're talking about grassroots decision making. And that could be democracy in your neighborhood, it could be democracy in your city, and that's people getting to have some input into policies and spending and making sure that corruption isn't happening. And even at a higher level at your state and national politics. So that's and it should be emerging from the people and not a top down process. And that's the difference here. So just to push you on this a little further, you stress the importance of exercising the vote, which I agree with. However, the way the whole electoral and political system is set up in this country, one has to have access to huge amounts of money and political power to even make a dent into the existing political system. For example, the Republican and the Democratic parties, which much research contends are basically controlled by the money of huge corporations and other contributors. As long as the choices with which we're presented are sort of preordained, it limits the real choice of the voter. So how can we get from that from there to a more truly radically democratic system on the national level or even the local level? Well, it begins at the local level. And it's people engaging in conversations in their neighborhoods deciding who they're going to have be on city council, taking a look at how the taxes are used in their facilities, making sure that decisions are made that benefit the whole, that benefit the people in general. And that can, you want that to trickle upward. And so that people who are, you know, running locally and then they decide they want to run for state legislature and ultimately maybe Congress are rooted in a conversation that is preexisting democratically as to what policies need to be implemented. So that's a vital thing and people can engage in that on a daily basis. And that's with your friends and your neighbors and really thinking through and not being afraid to talk about it. And that's what something always bothers me. Well, that's not politics, you know, and usually that means let's not talk about Trump or let's not talk about Biden. Politics is what's going on in our neighborhoods. Politics is the impact that high inflation has on families. You know, so a year ago, what a normal family would spend on, you know, insurance and food and everything that you need on it, you know, getting the television working on that. It's now $500 more a month. And for most working people, $500 more a month out of their budget means that they're often going in debt or their credit cards are being used because they use up all the capital they have on a monthly basis and they're still trying to have a standard of living that is middle class and their kids are safe and, you know, they've got a place to stay. And increasingly, the people at the bottom run out of money. And we're seeing higher rates of unemployment among the needy and certainly homelessness has has dramatically increased in this country continues to increase. So, you know, you reach a point where you can't afford to live somewhere. What's the role of social movements in bringing about a truly grassroots democracy? Many people point to the fact that or argue that no real change has ever happened with without a broad mass movement of people such as the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, and many others. So what's the role of those movements in bringing about these conditions? They're vital. And that's, you know, if you have a conversation about an AR15 in your own neighborhood and, you know, saying, well, do you want everybody here to have one? Most people are not going to think that's a really good idea. Or I certainly don't. And I think anybody I know here isn't going to be aware of that or even think about it. So people like to hide if they have an AR15, they like to hide it. And but publicly, we can know where these are. They're registered guns. And that's public information. We can find that out. But, you know, the accessibility of weapons like that, we're seeing devastating results in our in our schools and in public. Well, yeah, this is this is a somewhat intractable problem and it has been for a while. And, you know, just to go back to the theme that that you started with in the show, money and power, which we haven't even talked about directly, have a lot to do with why gun control legislation and other measures just keep going nowhere in our Congress. Would you agree? Yes, I would agree with that. And the National Rifle Association in our in fact, we just I was in northern New Mexico, they have their central training headquarters. They have this massive thousands of acre ranch where there's training and it's their national headquarters. It's it's quite amazing. It's right next to the National Boy Scout Training Center, which I thought was kind of interesting. In fact, last year, the New York Times had this story about how Boy Scout looking at kids in Moscow or in in Russia are being propagandized by, you know, the government and Putin and all of that the negativity that goes with that. And they get these kids, they look like Boy Scouts, they had beanies on and badges and stuff. The Boy Scout on them when I was an Eagle Scout, so I fully understand what happens there. You're learning to shoot, you're learning to be patriotic. I mean, it's no different than what Russia does in terms of, you know, propagandizing you. And I certainly would want to include, you know, building democratic awareness. If I was in charge of the Boy Scout movement and help kids really, you know, evolve and think through at a grassroots level, what this all means. I mean, there's a bit of that. If you're a troop, you get to elect who your troop leaders are, things like that. But but it's still professionally top down control. Well, Peter, on that more optimistic note, that's all the time we have for today. We've been speaking with Peter Phillips, Professor Emeritus at Sonoma State University. Thanks so much again for joining us today, Peter. Michael, it's been great to be on with you. Thank you so much. Same here. This has been Thinking Things Through, Thinking Critically in Critical Times on Think Tech, Hawaii. I'm your host, Michael Sukoff. Thanks as always to our engineer, Haley Aketa, the rest of the studio staff and much appreciation to, I'm sorry, much appreciation to Jay Fidel. Please join us again, two weeks from today at the same time, wherever you may be. Mahalo. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech, Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at ThinkTechHawaii.com. Mahalo.