 You're either screaming hot Storming or windy in a fire season. Yeah, the weather has just got me down a little bit That's a clip from one of my favorite guilty pleasure reality shows alone and it has a strange connection in so many ways with today's interview with cosmic keys podcaster Dan Chukas who I have to apologize again because this episode has been hanging in my Basket to get out for the longest time But it's out now and I really really think it's an interesting conversation on so many levels Here's a clip when you shine a light into a dark room. It lights up the whole room it's a weird time for kind of preaching these like spiritual love messages because So so many things are topsy-turvy, but I I sort of think It's extremely individualistic and you have to save yourself you have to be accountable for yourself and Know how powerful that is because these evil forces really Can't handle it and they'll They'll go away the more people embrace love Welcome to skeptica where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers thinkers and their critics I'm your host Alex secures and today we welcome Dan Chukas of the cosmic keys podcast here to the Skeptico layer My dad was nice enough to have me on his show cosmic keys a few weeks ago and We had a really great time had a really good conversation about some interesting stuff that I Don't know. I don't think it's talked about enough So we both wanted to continue it so we thought we'd bring the conversation over here Dan welcome. Thanks for joining me Yeah, thanks for having me Alex. It's an honor because as I told you in our interview on cosmic keys I've been listening to Skeptico for a while now and I never thought I never thought you would want to talk to me about stuff So thanks for having me. I'm honored I Know what I never know Chloe what to say Honored to talk to me, but that's cool. I go with it. I'll roll with it So for for folks who don't know, you know, tell us who is Dan Chukas and tell us about Cosmic keys gone through a couple iterations tell folks what you're doing over there these days, but first who are you? Yeah, well God, I don't know where to start so I I grew up Well, we talked about this on my show as well. I grew up outside of Chicago same area as you Alex We both went to the same high school and I started cosmic keys with a co-host scarlet Ravenswood who's kind of in like the neo pagan spiritual new age Community and I had been interested in these spiritual topics for my whole life and When I'm at Scarlett she kind of because she was already out there in the public With her YouTube channel and her social media stuff. She was already talking about these topics Openly and at the time I was pretty nervous to put myself out there and speak about these things But we kind of paired up with cosmic keys with me doing the Astrology forecast for the week ahead and her doing a tarot reading for the week ahead And we talked to a lot of a lot of similar people that you talked to people that are in spiritual paranormal kind of metaphysical communities and We started it in Chicago and I ended up moving to Colorado and she ended up moving to Dallas 2020 hit and I was running my mouth and trying to talk about the controversial things happening this year and then she Walked away from the show. We're still and we still keep in touch and it was a piece. You know, it was a Not there's no bad blood at all But now that I have the show to myself I have it a little bit more open-ended where I want to talk about you know, the conspiracy topics the spiritual topics all of the controversy of 2020 and also stick to the roots of you know consciousness spirituality astrology her Metacism So yeah, that's kind of where I'm at right now in this crazy year You know, I get that on one hand and I get that you got to have a lane and you got to stay in your lane I don't do that at all I don't try and stay in any particular lane, but I Always wonder did you kind of see it that way? And do you see it that way now because it doesn't seem that way it seems like you kind of go wherever Wherever you want Yeah, absolutely like if I if I discover somebody that That has something interesting to bring to the table. I definitely, you know reach out and book them for an interview and Don't necessarily think oh, do they fit the brand or that do they fit the subject matter? So it's yeah before it was very much like, you know Me and Scarlett kind of sticking with astrology and tarot and stuff under that umbrella and now I'm trying to Just talk about current events more and but I do I am really focused on the spiritual Perspective so if we can look at current events from a spiritual perspective, that's kind of what I'm shooting for but yeah I don't it's pretty open-ended for me anybody that's interesting enough to chat. I'm down to chat with Yeah, and I think you know, this is something we talked about on your show, but I Really kind of appreciated and really like the way you've kind of done that because we talked some of the pros and cons of the Talking about current events and we can't even talk about them as current events Dan because I mean one of the things that you brought to focus last time was that Things are happening at a rate Whether you're into kind of current events Conspiracies all that stuff. It's been so in your face this year that you really can't avoid it And again, I thought you had just a great Kind of perspective shifting thing when you talked about the long game what I'm calling the long game and you said If we look at the stuff that's happening right now and I'm talking about the the pandemic and the You know, you can't help but talk about You know the election stealing kind of thing no matter how you come down on that I mean, it's unprecedented If you look at that stuff and then what you did is said well What if we shifted that and looked at the longer game and you even went so far to say look at my parents, you know And what was their game? What was the game for them? You know, I was like JFK and then you said, you know, what was the game changer for you? I was like 9 11, you know another one. I throw in there is the the global I'm sorry the Global warming kind of failed attempt, you know So do you want to just kind of riff on that for a minute that there is If we do take a step back there seems to be this longer game at play Yeah, totally. I mean when you study conspiracies in general, I mean you could go back to ancient times if you really want wanted to but I see it it's pretty clear that there are groups and institutions that that plan out social engineering they I mean if you look into like the the mockingbird CIA influence on the media are really thinking about the long game and they are thinking about generations and stuff like that and I You know in what you were saying with like my parents who are kind of like boomer aged and their parents who were of like the World War two generation and then me as a millennial You know from my grandparents world and worldview to Today and beyond like there's been a lot of things That have changed in the culture and I think the 60s like right. I think JFK was really that turning point not only because the the cultural revolution like in you know the West of Kind of like the hippie movements and all of that but then like the cultural revolution in China and then the Vatican to Project or whatever. I mean I was raised Catholic and I I have like a Fondness for certain kind of mystical aspects of Catholicism and The Vatican to thing is huge because that really changed Catholicism into a more Protestant thing and by the time it hits the millennials like me Like I you know, I kind of liked my religion when I was a little kid But then when I was you know around 9-11 around my teenage years There's this real association between the Catholic Church and pedophilia. So like who's going to stick with that so I feel like over The 20th century into the 21st century. There's just been constant Social engineering projects straight up like Breaking things down and when you when you have that kind of alchemical perspective and knowing that the elites Are familiar with occult ideas or you know Into all of that. It really is kind of like an alchemical breakdown of society to rebuild it into what they want and from what I'm looking at with like contact tracing and vaccine passports and um The 5g internet of things it seems like the the the great work that they're trying to build Is more of like a feudal system where Most of us are just peasants and there's You know a select few that are at the top so Yeah, the long game is really interesting and it's and I think 2020 was a year where We're in a new phase of the long game and when I look at people younger than me like people that are like Gen Z or younger like they're calling them like the Alpha generation like little kids right now I can only imagine how they're being conditioned right now With masks and with all of these propaganda things. They don't know any better and um If we're if we're gonna try to take any control back from this like Techno feudalism that they have ready to roll out It's gonna. I mean we're gonna have to deprogram a lot of this social engineering. So It's it's kind of a dark thing to think about but I think That's why the spiritual is so important because if you literally um are in touch with your inner world and in touch with your soul and If you have a mindful If you practice some kind of mindfulness practice You can kind of step back and um find inner peace In the middle of this whirlwind of of chaos Well, you kind of kind of laid a lot out there I'm going to try and pull it apart because the long game The big game And the only game that's how I break it down Like here's where I take the long game. I just connect the dots that you that you have So like you look at today in the pandemic and you go it's a conspiracy if it at its simplest level It's a conspiracy that there's no medical scientific evidence behind any of these edicts, right? They're just They're just now Edicts, you know that and and they're highly politicized So if you're apolitical like I am you just step back go. Oh, okay. Someone's running again That's a program. That's a project otherwise. It doesn't work that way. Otherwise. There's some kind of scientific basis for these things. There's kind of some Democratic basis for these things and and there is it. So you go, okay, I get it I've seen that before and and you've seen it before like you can go to 9 11. Like I said, okay. Yeah, you know the We we have this event and the next day. There's a thousand page Patriot act bill on the desk of congress. You go that doesn't happen Accidentally, there's a list of seven countries. We're gonna invade and we invade them all that you just go. Okay. I get it That's a game. That's a program. I would also connect it and this the other one I want to throw on the table I was reminded of The interviews I did on global warming before I really caught on to it for what it was which is Another game another project I kind of looked at it from a science perspective and it pissed me off because it's like You guys are not following the science and I'll never forget I talked to one guy And you know, you want to go in to talk about like MK ultra programming, you know Like they always show the clip if you go on you like the L Roker thing where he freezes, you know Or people have other ones and I don't know if that stuff's real or not. It a lot of it seems very very dicey But I think there's a kernel of truth to it As well in some ways and I remember I interviewed Daniel pinchback who has a really interesting background I so when you look at his parents and stuff like that and in the media business Which is always kind of a tip-off And he was back this is a few years ago when he was really pitching the uh climb and apocalypse stuff Really really hard and really get in my face And I guess he felt like I was kind of getting in his face too Although I thought I was being pretty gentle about it But then I brought up and I said Okay, but yeah, it's really about uh, even if we believe what you're saying about global warming Then the main thing that we're focusing on from a real issue is population over population, right? I mean You go from however bill however many billion you think we have now and you double it and you've got a huge problem So you've got to address that It was really interesting. His response was like this Like an alrocher kind of program. No, there isn't a problem with over a population You could fit every person in the united states in the state of texas You could and and and and that's what he said too. That's another like Like almost like a code phrase that these guys have it's not a population problem You could fit everybody in texas And then you just step back and you go That is so ridiculously absurd Why would an intelligent person be kind of even spinning that anyone says says back goes we've got a popular a world Population problem But that's been programmed into us that anyone who says that is somehow, you know connected with Eugenics and the rest of this well, I mean We kind of know that's what's going on that there's some shade of that Going on with the pandemic stuff, but it's never made explicit. It's always kind of in the in the background You know, it's it's it's never made explicit So And I guess I'm using that as another, you know game kind of thing and then you wanted to put jfk in there and great so I'm reluctant To connect that With the way that you did the way that some people do and look at these occulted symbols and look at how these guys like to use numerology and all the rest that I'm not saying that isn't true. I'm just saying that isn't necessary to look at This as a social engineering project Um And I think it's it's useful to separate the two because if we look at The next category that I would have which would be the big game Which is what's really behind that? That's where I break down that other stuff and want to bring in The occult stuff I'd want to bring in Evil as we understand it in the extended consciousness realm Whatever that means and whether you think it's satanic or whether you think it's Gnostic or whatever the hell you think it is and you know So what do you think of that? Kind of division there. Do you think that that makes sense or is useful or Just further complicates it No, I think that is a good division like the long game having more um occult or evil satanic elements to it and It gets me thinking that all of all of these kind of nefarious things that happen in the world with social engineering projects with these events you're talking about Like I don't I don't necessarily think even the the top dogs that are working on these things are necessarily occultists or Consciously trying to invoke evil. I I think it's possible that these things are all invisible forces anyways, and they're just part of the human psyche and they In this sort of weird metaphysical Invisible way are always bringing us towards the long game, which you're talking about um And it's it's all really speculative, but it's if you have discernment you can kind of just see You know the people that are that are creating these These social engineering projects or these false flag events or these pandemics or whatever Are motivated by things that are evil But I don't know if that means See, how do we know that though see and that's where I make the distinction between the long game and the big game So to me the long game is If you think this is recent if you think this is just something that happened yesterday It it isn't you know, and that's why I went to blanks to talk about To me, I think he can as as you did I mean, you're the guy who originally kind of sent me down this direction There's a direct path between 9 11 And the pandemic and I'd even say in between there There's a stopping point with the failed attempt at global warming Sure, you might even point to the failed attempt at the tic-tac you know Disclosure rollout kind of thing whatever they were trying to do that both those things failed And I haven't heard anyone really talk about that in an interesting way But the the global warming thing it just didn't work It got blown up by climate gate and then it got blown up by the weather These guys didn't realize and we think they're so freaking smart I mean, they picked kind of a bad thing there when they pick the weather Because they really ultimately they couldn't control it and people were like It ain't warming up, you know, it ain't going and it's colder than hell here in boston this year What do you guys talk about it just Didn't pass the test and then they if you remember they got more and more absurd. Well The the it's getting colder the water is just the deep down below the water is really, you know, I He's kind of just bizarre kind of things so I see the I see this line of this Long game, but I'm not sure about the big game So to say the big game is a cult the big game is satanic the big game is this gnostic good versus evil Throughout history. It's really when you take the longer lens of history. It's very difficult to tell You know the good guys from the bad guys without a score book, you know Is bill gates going to look like a superhero? 100 years from now because he culled the planet by 50 percent and and saved the planet That's not my opinion if you ask me right now, but you know Someone someone in the future could make that argument if it turns out that way and you'd have to say, you know That's it. You know, I was watching a really weird Kind of digression, but I was watching a World War two documentary because my wife loves Everything about holocaust and interesting and she's interested in it. She went over there and toured all the You know all the the death camps and she has a very somber, you know Concern about a deep concern. It's not like she's a you know just a group before it She's Is a deep feeling and a deep sensibility to it. But anyways, we're watching the documentary And it's about how the british bugged that they had this uh like prison encampment this high end ritz carleton prison prison for nazi Officers very high level officers generals and stuff like that. So they brought them on and they kind of Fattened them up and these guys spilled the beans. They didn't realize it, you know, but the whole thing was bugged The brown stoning thing Jeffrey Epstein would be proud So they were constantly bugging these guys throughout the thing And they were just kind of made it very easy for them very lax environment And they started talking and they started giving up all this incredible information And at this time they started giving up a bunch of information about the death camps information that was unknown, you know And they're and they're admitting these war crimes So at the end of the film you're like, okay, what happens to these guys, right? Of course, they're put on trial Of course, they're in nuremberg, right? no none of them were The british government who was primarily the one running the operation decided that it would be too big of a give up to Disclose their practices That they might want to use this in the future or they might want to use this information So therefore they would let it all just be buried in the annals of history And it never would have been discovered if this one researcher didn't Stumble upon it in some archives, which probably should have never been there if they would have had a better sense that they were there but Long way around the barn Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys there? Yeah, that's definitely tricky because I mean even thinking about world war two I mean How much of the cia today? Was influenced by the the project paper clip where all of those scientists were kind of divvied up and sent You know to the us or to the ussr back then And then the space race began and then mk ultra began and you know All of that type of science that sick twisted manipulative type of science You know, I learned about that in junior high when I learned about the holocaust when they were doing weird experiments in the concentration camps And you just had the sense that these Nazi scientists were Sick twisted psychopaths. Well, we kind of that that's kind of the foundation of the post-world war two America in a way with with everything that happened after that so It's a lot of people have pointed this out, but sydney got leave the guy who runs the mk ultra program is your classic Sick twisted scientist And he happens to be jewish not that that matters although it does It we can't help but say that it matters given the weird historical context that we went exactly like you said And picked up where they left off with all these sick mk and german mind control projects And uh, they're sydney got leave the only other thing I always point out is you know, and sydney got leave I I love this because it's like a such a skeptical thing sydney got leave is in charge of the stargate program too You know the remote viewing program, which we all want to say. Oh, no, that's really cool That's where we're you know fighting for freedom. You know this thing. No sydney got leave comes. Yeah Let's tell some with lsd and see see what happens and you know, we get russell targan how put off So yeah, and we had to tell sydney that wasn't a good idea and this and that Yeah, but sydney was your fucking boss, dude sydney was your boss and he was running all these other sick fricking programs And exactly what you said dan That's who we had become and there's no evidence that that has changed. You know, I mean that is who we are Yeah, and it's I remember yeah, and now it's it's it gets me thinking there was some post from like a cia woman on twitter and they're kind of like putting themselves out there and like Being like oh the cia is going to be inclusive or like anti-racist so they can they're like applying all the woke rhetoric to the fricking cia and Yeah, it's it's All of those things and I was just kind of googling sydney godly of who you're talking about but Again, even when I think about the generations like the the hippie movement There's a lot of cia a lot of cia involvement and all of that obviously the lsd thing the timothy leery's and So it seems so much like these big social changes kind of just um, organically Burst forward and it's like oh, yeah, this it's time for us to evolve or change but A lot of the times it seems like it's it's controlled by these deep state forces and I really think you know the 60s is a huge turning point Then you know the 70s and 80s and 90s are kind of like easing into those changes and then boom 9 11 new changing point like obama Was a big changing point and now 2020 is going to be Absolutely huge for like the big Technocratic changing point and I don't even think we've seen Um half of what's going to really roll out in the next few years with like all of these uh Things that they've got ready ready to roll out Is bill gates a hero our our kids and our grandkids going to be You know, I swear to god. I swear to god. I was driving through la Jolla california the other day And I saw a building size of it's only two three is like a three-story building with a mural of bill gates on it I'm like, hey man There's a lot worse people in history That are You know posterized in that way Well, the Okay for bill gates in particular. I mean, I didn't know this about him until I think this year, but his father was uh one of the founders of planned parenthood So what I mean, I want to make sure you get my point So let's say all the bad stuff you know is true And all the stuff assume for a minute that all the crazy stuff that we hear about the vaccine is true Does he still take Is he still the guy who saved the planet because here's my point just being Real skeptical for a minute You don't control population on the planet. You're doomed So whatever you think the population is now eight billion nine billion It okay, you can double it. Okay. I don't think you can double it, but you double it. You're at 16 billion Can you double it again? You get to 32 billion because this can this planet really support that many people You know, china was building those ghost cities for the longest time because they're like, oh, are we gonna do with our population? We got to pull it up build put them someplace say build these huge Cities and spend all this money With no one there just planning the growth Well now do they just kind of giving up on that is someone just is someone at a higher level in the big big game saying You know, it's just unsustainable And we got to figure out a way to do it that is the most humane But eventually we got to get to Less people don't get me wrong folks. I'm not advocating that I'm just saying until you put that out there until you really Try and look at it from that perspective You don't understand the kind of logic Of that argument because we're we're not treating the other part of that equation logically We don't have any global plan to control the population because if we did we would have done it 50 years ago And we wouldn't be in the mess that we're in Yeah, I mean it gets me thinking that There's I I agree that the you know, the global population is a really important issue and if you have Exponential population growth You know, it kind of reaches a plateau and then plummets and that's kind of nature I think that's like a a natural thing. Um, but when you have You know Fam I would call it families like the Rockefellers or you know, the the gates family Is actually very similar to the Rockefeller family in that You know bill gates' father Uh was one of the original founders of Planned Parenthood, which was a eugenics program Like they that's out there. That's clear and they were really trying to Kind of achieve the same type of family goals as the Rockefellers and with the Rockefellers. Yeah, there's the Rockefeller foundation There's all these philanthropic Uh groups that these people are involved with and it's all PR also So if you ask is bill gates going to be remembered as a hero In 50 years or 100 years. Well, he has so much freaking money to put towards his PR campaign That probably he will I'm not saying it's going to be true, but will he be remembered by people As a hero. Yeah, because he's been putting God knows how much money towards that image crafting for his entire life. So it's just And when you talk about the vaccines or the the being an anti-vaxxer anti-climate changer like these things Are sort of just things that people spit out. They they have the the lines ready So so and they'll ostracize ostracize you like, oh, are you an anti-vaxxer then? Oh, are you again? You don't believe in science and it's all baseline really thoughtless Reactions to certain things because those have been crafted by these social engineering Forces, I guess so And I'm noticing that more and more this year Like how many people in my life are just spitting out a reactionary response That was clearly crafted and even like on my show I one time was criticizing bill gates and I got some comments like Bill and melinda gates have done so much help blah blah blah blah blah. I'm like They bought that response from you and People don't talk about when you know how they're banned from india or how all of these vaccines were just accidentally sterilizing people or how In the bill gates ted talk video where he lists out how to you know control the global population and vaccine Is one of the three bullet points? it's like It's all out there and I think the things that motivate these really powerful families I think they have sort of like a god complex and they think they it's their job to do To do these big scale Things to the planet when really like we should sort of let Nature do its thing and yeah if our population gets out of control nature might shake us back into a more sustainable level But that doesn't involve mass deception of like sterilizing people or euthanizing people by You know giving them some vaccine or some environmental factor. Well, here's here's I guess where I kind of pull the conversation back to You know long game big game only game So to me the long game is just saying hey these things have been going on for a long time If you want to go back even further like you were doing Go back to christianity go back to constantine is always my go-to on that You know because people get caught up with jesus in the bible. Just go right to 400 or 350 whatever it is constantine Yeah, I think it's 315 Great serfdom right he gives you this religion Which is just an exact copy of the prior roman religion But he dresses it up. He calls it christianity and he says okay now. Here's the good news Everything's gonna be okay after this life. Ah, here's the bad news. I kind of own you right now You can't you will do the job that I say you will have no property. You will have nothing You are just a little tool for the state 315 350 here 315 1700 years ago Total uh, you know game total game So the social engineering game and we can go counsel countless examples over and over and over again But that's different than the big game because the big game is Evil the big game is the occult game the big game is the hidden game the satanic game Because they're playing it at a different level Because you only get so much you can only have so much money so much power You know, it's like the One of my favorite quotes, you know, what do men of power want? more power If that's how you've built if that's how you've constructed your consciousness Then that's what you want and you'll go anywhere to get it. So why wouldn't you extend Into that other realm if it promised you whatever power live forever uh connection with Entities that can do all this kind of stuff That's where you'd go And so let's talk about the big game and then just so people know where I'm coming from ultimately to me the only game The only game Is a totally different game It's the game of It's the game of love. It's the game of forgiveness. It's the game of I don't cut off my thumb to spite my fingers I don't battle people. I don't try and beat people I just realize that we're all Headed towards the same Thing, you know, we're all doing the same thing. There's only the lightness. The darkness is just there To to provide a relief to provide a Contrast for the game. So there I've kind of laid out my whole Thing. Let's see what you think Well, yeah, the uh, it gets me thinking a lot about, you know What this world is and on your show you talk about ndes and stuff with evil being present here down here in this world um And then just with the knowledge that yeah love and forgiveness and peace and You know spiritual bliss is the real game But yeah, I think evil Is allowed to be present here Where we are in this in this realm and in the extended consciousness aspect of life on earth, there are definitely entities and evil forces and Chaotic forces, but If you think of it Like I agree that at our core Us humans with our us and sold humans You know That stuff really at the end of the day can't take away what We have on the inside that can't really destroy our souls or our goodness our connection to The divine, but I I sort of think that like this this world is a big game and the the evil forces are here They're allowed to be here because they do lead to evolution and growth and experience and all of that and I don't and even when the in the christian terminology there They just talk about satan as like the prince of this world because like this world needs those evil forces for us souls to come here and do do what we've got to do and I I think Having no discernment or having the idea that evil doesn't exist can just Make your time here even more miserable or add consequences to You know what you bring with you after death, but um I I I I like Your focus on acknowledging evil and talking about evil And not denying evil But I think from a spiritual perspective, you know It's uh It's way less powerful than like the the positive Love force that we all are really made of I guess. I don't know You know, I agree and the problem with that is it It doesn't have the power for people I think they immediately want to turn away because it doesn't it doesn't give the juice It doesn't give the jolt. It doesn't give the satanic ritual abuse jolt Yeah, I'm with you and um when you're when you're thinking about love and um The way things work in this world I mean lately, uh Like I I think not only do you need to like embrace love and forgiveness, but you just need to be aware of little negative thoughts and little resentful Thoughts and everything and just stop yourself and just change the way you're thinking change your vibration And then more like it's kind of like that law of attraction thing like You reap what you sow you attract Your your vibration matches Um, what's coming towards you? So if you're sitting around hateful and and this is something this is a problem with me I have a problem of not forgiving people or not trusting people Or holding grudges against people and who's losing at the end of the day for being like that? Nobody but me so um When you talk about, you know, the only thing that's going to take us out of this hell Is the force of love and compassion and forgiveness? Yeah, because it has a it has a domino effect and it's it's more It's like, you know, when you shine a light into a dark room it lights up the whole room without that one source of light it's still pitch black and I think it's easier than we think to To try to do better and to try to um Get rid of these evil forces that are everywhere But I I see it as a very individualistic journey because if you don't look at yourself and Sort of think who am I who am I hating right now? Who am I holding a grudge against? Who am I resentful towards? um If you don't stop and observe that then it's going to be going on in the background non-stop and it's it's it's a weird time for kind of preaching these like spiritual love messages because So so many things are topsy-turvy, but I I sort of think It's extremely individualistic and you have to Save yourself you have to be accountable for yourself and know how powerful that is because these evil forces really um Can't handle it and they'll They'll go away the more people embrace love There's so many really interesting little things you said there that I think are so profound I mean one you have to save yourself. I love that because I think that's So true and I also agree with you that it is a matter of Being mindful of the little things At the same time, I also Don't know if I want to I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I kind of heard you that say That you know this stuff isn't really that hard in a way. You know, it's just really not you know, it's uh Like one of my Teachers mickey singer says it's like you're drowning in six inches of water. You know Just lift your head up. You know, it's don't don't do that anymore. I just interviewed a guy I really really love this guy his name is tim grimes and he wrote a book the joy of not thinking And I found his book just going through kindle and it was uh in the It was you know kindle unlimited. I'm like wow that sounds interesting. The guy is phenomenal I love this guy and the title Says it all in terms of what we're talking about. It's like You don't have to fucking think about everything You don't have to take everything so fucking seriously You're not at the center of the universe. You're not at the center of your world You're not even at the center of your fucking county, you know, it's not that Whatever is going to happen. You have you know, you you don't worry so freaking much about it and the other thing is just Be be be playful have fun with yourself with life You know the joy of not thinking how freeing it is to give this we don't have to solve All these problems. These are other people's problems for the most part that we're taking on Yeah, it's uh it's Just lately especially for me like it's it's definitely and you have a yoga background I just think you know when you when if you put the The moralistic like Christian perspective of like, you know, love love thy neighbor as thyself or whatever um And all the really basic tenets of Christianity which are pretty straightforward and true in my opinion the bait like I'm not talking about the dogma or the institutions or anything, but the basics of Christianity are true But I notice like when I'm if if I don't embrace some kind of Let's say eastern practice I can't do that very effectively because if you're not mindful if you're not centered and introspective How are you you're not going to be aware of when you're just pissed off and resentful and um Spewing out negative things all the time. Do you really believe that see? I don't think you believe that because I think what you said before contradicts that Which is that it's it's it's pretty easy. You just got to catch us It's easy when you're when you're spiraling down that path. We all see it in ourselves. We just like We're just stuck in that groove and we're like fuck This just feels more comfortable right now to spew this shit or we've been told that Hey, it's a good idea to get it off your chest or to process and stuff like that I go back to Rewind on you Dan what you said before which is just no you don't have to you find yourself thinking those thoughts you could No, think You're stop thinking like my buddy tim says Or just understand that there's a completely other perspective on you know, whatever hate you're having you know about some other person Right, right. I'm just saying um I was just trying to bridge the gap between you know Being good and being forgiving and loving and Being self-aware about it and having a mindfulness practice Definitely gets you out of that autopilot mode because if you're if you're not stopping and Observing your thoughts, which is what you do in mindfulness meditation You I don't know. I mean you might not be aware of of what of how you're acting because you're just impulsively Reacting to everything around you and you're not thinking oh, I have the choice to Stop thinking about this and just hit mute for a second and if you hit mute all of a sudden That little uh burst can kind of dissolve and you're at square one again I don't know. That's just what I've been recently kind of doing with the stresses of this year the stresses of a day job and like Just realizing the little things are really Dragging me down just like the you know getting getting pissed at somebody at work or getting pissed at someone in your family For a little thing and then just letting that grow and grow. I think the mind like being mindful As much as possible and knowing that you can just stop like you're saying stop thinking for a second and hit reset I think is serving me lately at least And that's awesome. So we're just shooting ideas back and forth. Oh, yeah. Yeah So two things that that I these are like subtle little things But this is like the most important fun stuff to talk about I see it kind of differently and it doesn't mean that I haven't tried exactly what you're talking about But where I'm at now is one, you know, like I told you tim grimes The joy not thinking is that that really is an option and I think we're so conditioned to thinking that that isn't an option Other than in some super tricky spiritual eastern way of not thinking of being mindful of being centered And tim saying fuck that shit. Just stop thinking You don't you don't have to think and then when you say that that to somebody You'll notice that they'll go like well, I can't do that. I mean what would happen is that okay? Stop thinking for the next 30 seconds. How about that? Would that totally fuck up your life with your life totally fall apart? If you stopped fucking thinking for the next 30 seconds, give it a try Stop thinking Stop thinking you have to know stop thinking you have to solve stop thinking you have to fix Just stop thinking be a bum daydream You know, watch your feet as you walk, you know do whatever it doesn't matter It's not like you have to substitute it with something great or something Magnificent or something epic just fuck it be a bum for 30 seconds and stop thinking and taking it seriously The other guy point to is my fucking man wim Hof who says the same thing fucking I go in the I think I thought I mean I built it. I I believe in whim so much. I built a fucking ice path in my backyard and it's Oh, they're filled with water and ice and it's like big chunks of ice you go in the ice. You're not It's magnificent. It's brutal and you don't want to do it, but it's magnificent You are not thinking about stupid fucking shit. And what does whim say? He says three things be happy Be strong and be healthy You know, you don't have to you can choose to be happy All this shit that's going on the vaccines are going to they might do all the Fuck it. I don't care. I choose to be happy and and if you you know work at managing the The biology that you have get good sun get good exercise hop in that ice bath You're much more likely the the the chemicals in your brain are working better and you're just are naturally happier But again the programming we have is that that's not a good idea. No, you couldn't you couldn't be happy Not with everything that's going on. You couldn't possibly be happy big game Long game big game only game only game be happy. That's all there is I'm totally with you and um It gets me thinking too because uh, I just moved this year And yeah, I'm pretty damn happy this year. Like I am keeping this podcast going. I'm playing in a band I get to snowboard because I live in a ski town and uh, you know a part of me is sort of like Man, I'm so happy. Like I should be a little bit guilty. I should feel a little guilty But it's just like if you're cultivating your own happiness in in sort of a self-centered way It has effects on the people in your life and you're actually doing good work by just focusing On yourself so that you're you are happy and you're not carrying around resentment and all of this stuff and and when you're saying, you know with you when you're talking about wim hoff When you're talking about the um, the guy that's saying stop thinking or don't think I'm I'm with you a hundred percent. I think it's just important to think about that as a practice like You can't just I think if you want to actually stop thinking you have to Work at it rather than just do it on command. Okay, but just just to be clear Tim Grimes is saying the exact opposite of that. He's saying okay that out of your head I I agree with what what he's saying. I guess I've never read his work or anything, but I like the idea that yeah, it's not this like complicated practice. Yeah, just stop thinking Just make it easy. Don't overthink it. Don't think I think that's great too, but in my Experience of trying to do you think do you think when you snowboard? Oh, no That's what that's why I do it But yeah, the like the flow state that you get into whether it's You know making art or snowboarding or any of that that's that's amazing, but even I'm just saying that you have to at least Put a little bit of work into Like say if you just want to not think and snowboarding is your way of doing that. Well, you at least have to like Figure out how to snowboard as much as possible, which can be I don't know. I'm just saying It takes a little bit of work to do I still consider that a practice to not think and I think practice You get better at it with time and I don't I don't necessarily agree that if you just say Don't think now and it'll take no work. Just do it now. You'll instant success I I'm more of like Of the opinion that it does take work in the long run, but it is a great Goal and it's a great sentiment for sure So, uh We've been at this for a little while tell folks what's going on at Cosmic keys who you got coming up to who you're talking to where you where you're planning on going Well, um, I've got a lot of interviews on deck at the moment. Um And I've been I'm trying to bring it kind of more Back. I'm really interested in talking about astrology. Um We didn't really talk about astrology in this interview, but it's a thing that I am actually Pretty skeptical of at the end of the day but I what I like about astrology is Just the act of of observing time It it, you know, if you make predictions or if you make interpretations, that's one thing But if you just simply observe the movement, I think that's um The most fulfilling thing about astrology So I'm going to be talking to people about the astrology of 2021 and kind of what we're We might expect there and I'm definitely just you know, trying to Keep it going and keep talking to people that I find interesting I'm discovering a lot of new podcasts out there as well and um Just kind of you know, even talking with you talking with all the other podcasters that I speak with I love the networking aspect of it and It's it's extremely fun to you know schedule an hour interview and just have a real conversation Once a week versus all the mundane conversations that we usually have with people with everyday people so I'm just you know following my bliss and bringing um, whatever Just I'm open to whatever comes with the future of the show, but uh Yeah, and I think I'm going to be changing the patreon format so That's going to be coming up later on but Yeah, that's about all I can think of with cosmic keys Well, cool. I'm a fan. I'm going to continue to listen And this has been a great chat kind of went a bunch of different places. We didn't really plan it, but that's okay Oh, yeah, that's perfectly fine. I had a great time chatting here and um I've really been enjoying your show too and I've uh, I I like that you have me a podcaster on And I I've like I've actually subscribed to A handful of the the podcasters you've recently had on And have been really enjoying those shows too. So Maybe uh, someone listening will catch my show and I just like Discovering new voices and you've been doing that more recently. It seems like Yeah, and I'm going to continue to do it because I can't could not agree with you more about Just having meaningful conversations, you know On a regular basis and I think podcasters And like I told you when we first talk, I mean I was turned on to what you're doing. I was like, wow This is great. These are great conversations that dans have and I really want to Join in so it's a cool process Yeah, well like I told you I've been listening to skeptical since probably like 2014 or 15 or something And you're totally up there with you know, I mean my I just am like Doing my show The way I think podcasts should sound and your show the the conversation style you have is an influence on me same with a lot of other A lot of others but uh, we're all kind of Where it's all kind of like a big network and we're all kind of just Helping each other out and bouncing ideas and inspiring things with each other. So it's all good Absolutely, it's all good Okay, dan cosmic keys. Check it out. It's great having you. Yeah. Thanks again, alex. It was really fun Thanks again to dan for joining me today on skeptical. Do check out his show cosmic keys. I promise you won't be disappointed The one question i t up from this episode would be Do you think we What do you think of the long game big game only game idea that we're kicking around here are a lot of our frustrations and Are a lot of our frustrations are a lot of our frustrations and worries Are a lot of our frustrations and worries Due to the fact that we focus too much on the now game and not enough on the big game Let me know your thoughts Love for you to join me over on the skeptical forum But you don't have to do that if you don't want to You can just continue to listen to the show I have some new ones coming up real soon. Stay with me for all of that Until next time take care and bye for now Show with just an excerpt with just a great guest who I really