 Yeah, let's pick a new president. I'm J. Fidel. This is ThinkTek Hawaii, and this is American Issues Take Two. We have co-host Tim Apichella. We have Stephanie Stoll-Dalt and regular contributor, and our special esteemed guest, Jeffrey Esportnoy-esque. Welcome to the show, all of you. Morning. Thank you, Jay. Hello. So we're going to talk about picking a president. I mean, there was something in the paper a couple days ago about how, you know, there's a lot of Democrats now that feel, as I do, that actually Biden should, you know, hang it up after this term. And a lot of people feel that he couldn't win even if he didn't hang it up. And so he should be out there or the Democratic Party should be out there trying to, you know, select somebody who can run against whatever Republican comes up, and which could be Trump. So let's talk about the possibilities. Let me go to you first, Tim. Who do you favor? I'll give you a list if you want. But who's on your mind? Well, who's on my mind? Again, this is a personal bias, but well, first off, I'm sad to say that it's not Joe Biden. Joe Biden has been a very calming force after the Trump tumultuous years. He's done great in that respect. And he's done some good things regarding COVID. And he's gotten some bills passed. But other than that, we're in a lot of turmoil. And I think he knows it. And I think the criticism, I hate to say it about his age is a primary factor on why popularity is probably down. I saw a CNN poll here recently, 75% of Democrats are not looking to Joe Biden for a second term. That's a phenomenal number. Now, as far as my personal preference, I got to go with Newsom in California as a potential candidate for President of the United States for 2024. And if my VP pick would be someone in the Midwest, a little some diversity, Amy Klobuchar, she speaks pretty straightforward and to the heart of matters. And she doesn't do a lot of political wrangling or spin. She's pretty plain spoken and direct, like her as Vice President Pick. Okay, we will get to the question of how this administration can put somebody forward or how the Democratic Party can effectively put somebody forward. Stephanie, do you have a choice? I listed them in the show notes. I'll give you the list. It's Kamala Harris is a possibility, a logical possibility, but I don't know if it's a good one. Gavin Newsom, Corey Booker, Amy Klobuchar, Pete Pooge, Judge Stacy Abrams, been talked about. Chuck Schumer, Amy Raskin, Elizabeth Warren from Last Time Around, Gretchen Whitmer, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and there are some others too. What is your attention fall? Oh, thank you for asking. I'm real excited about where my attention falls. But before I say that, I still, I am, I have a level of confidence in Biden, and I'm reading polls that say if he runs again, he can beat Trump. He can win. And so I think we had to keep that in mind. So it really is a matter of him making a decision about his level of energy and his stamina. But he is he is getting along there. But if we do go with younger candidates and I, I see that's good for the country. We need it. Everybody's too old that's in these leadership positions. But I'm very excited about somebody that's doing something and has been doing things and has been winning. And of course, that's Gavin Newsom. So you got a gorgeous guy. Okay, so he's got the appeal. You say gorgeous. Gentlemen, she's that too sexually. Is this a relevant factor? Well, I guess it's not supposed to be. Maybe I'm not supposed to say things like that, because then that's kind of objectifying him just just anyhow, okay, so we won't say that, but he's got a good TV presence. He looks good on TV. And he's, he's at the right age stage. And he's got energy. And he's got he can also be articulate, smart guy, he can come up, he can go up against anybody of these other people out of Harvard and supposedly these illustrious institutions that are selective, like to know what they're selective for. But anyway, I think he's got a lot to bring. Now, what's important is not only has he won two of his races for governor, he also managed the the the call back, he got past the recall. And he did it easily. And he he he he managed all of that while also presenting California as a resource for the country in terms of being a sanctuary for abortion, and also for being creative in his legislation, which is to take that Texas style legislation and do something with it for the gun side of things, which is which is what the Republicans said that was a danger of having that kind of a vigilante notion within any legislation that it could be used for other things. Well, hey, somebody used it for something else for the gun issue. So he's got the vigilantes going after the guns like Abbott and Texas has the vigilantes going after the abortion people. So anyway, I see that he's he's got he checks every box as far as having a vice presidential partner. I like Elizabeth Warren because she's smart and she knows about the financial issues. And I think we need that because not only are we not competent in civics 101 as the population of this nation, we also don't know a thing about money. And I'm just sick of hearing how it's Biden's the one that's making the gas prices go up, and Biden's responsible for inflation. So we need somebody that knows about how to run the finances. Elizabeth Warren could actually win. So Jeff, I guess you should you should take the same track. You know, first of all, can Biden win? But second, if he if he shouldn't or can't or won't be able to, what would your picks be? First of all, I'm not eligible. I'm too young. Okay, I want to be I want to be clear about that. That's the only disqualifying factor. Otherwise, I would be a prime candidate. I think the only person who's going to decide whether Biden runs again is Biden. Yeah, okay, you don't kick out an existing president unless that president for one reason or another feels that he or she is not capable. So all the speculation to me is nothing more than speculation. And I think if Biden feels that he's healthy enough, both psychologically and physically, he will run again. I think he'll lose. I think any Democrats going to lose. Whether it's Gavin Newsom or any of the other people you mentioned, I don't think there's a chance in heck under the existing electoral college that a Democrat is going to win the election in two years. The economy is going south. The Republicans are about ready to take over the house and likely the Senate, although there's still a couple of months to go and the Republicans can probably figure out a way to lose some races because of their extreme positions on certain issues. So there is a chance the Democrats might hold on to the Senate. You know, I was just in California, you know, Gavin Newsom is a very divisive candidate, even in California, which is the most liberal state or one of the three most liberal states in the country. I don't think Gavin Newsom has a chance between the Rockies and the Alleghenies. And frankly, talking to people in California about when he was mayor of LA, there's a lot of baggage with Gavin Newsom, and you can just see the Republicans ripping him apart in commercials one after the other. So yeah, he's good looking. And yeah, he's in a state in which, you know, he clearly is a popular candidate. I don't see it. And frankly, I don't think any of the other people that you have on your list is a really great candidate. This could be a year like somebody like Jimmy Carter, who nobody even knows or is talking about comes out of the woodwork. I mean, I see it to be something like that. Every one of the people you mentioned is either a defeated candidate, either in primaries or otherwise, or has some other issue that I think will make it difficult. And frankly, the Republicans are lining up two very popular Republican candidates to run. I know Trump's size is going to run. I still say he's never going to make it to the ballot box. So you're probably looking at Florida, you may be looking at Texas for those two governors. So I don't mean to be, you know, a pessimist in this, but Elizabeth Warren, she's got no chance in my mind of being a nominee because she's too divisive. And, you know, it may be that some people like her views, but not enough. So and people of it, I mean, you know, he had some fun when he ran and now who's heard of him? Frankly, they were hoping it would be Harris. What's happened to her? When's the last time she's been in the news? They have put her in isolation because of all the problems she had with her own staff and the rebellion. What's the last thing Harris has done? She would have been, in my view, the most likely potential candidate, but I think she's forgotten right now. And I think she was a flash in the pan. You know, of all the people you mentioned, I think Cory Booker probably has the best chance. I know that's surprising because he's an African American, but he's much more moderate than a lot of the other people that have been mentioned. He is, as Stephanie would put it, a very handsome individual. If that's a qualification, objectifying him. And, you know, I think, I think he can, he can do it. But again, I'm not real optimistic we're going to see a Democratic president in 2024. This is a bit of a digression, but, you know, yesterday we saw that Joe Manchin actually was willing to go along with some of Biden's programs that, you know, I thought, why? What happened? What is it all of a sudden? Will that make Biden a better candidate if, in fact, he can get his programs through with Joe Manchin? Is that what Joe Manchin is thinking? It's the same day that that news has been completely overwhelmed by the fact that we're going into a recession, a serious, serious recession. So, you know, and inflation and recession are both at a hand. I mean, that doesn't happen very often. And frankly, I think we all know people vote pocketbook issues. I know abortion is a big issue this time around, but polls year after year after year show people vote with their pocketbook. And right now they're getting killed on both ends and nobody sees an end in sight. And the Federal Reserve is about ready probably to move interest rates so high that we're likely to go into a recession. Now, in the long term, like Volcker did, he got ripped apart, but it proved to save our economy. But it ain't happening in two years, at least in my view, and I'm not an economist, but things don't look good. So, yeah, can Biden be saved? If the Democrats can pass a few things, but don't forget the Republicans are going to argue the only reason any of these things passed is because they got some of our votes. Yeah, well, reconciliation for the one coming up. So maybe, maybe, maybe. Yeah, yeah. Good point, but that one's off the hook. Let me go back to Tim, you know, do you agree with the notion that it's Biden's choice? Do you think that do you think that he has a reasonable chance of running or winning? You know, that's the first question, really, I should ask that question first. Where does he fit on this? Could he, could he go against the Santas? Could he go against Trump? Does he have the popularity or would it be a real big mistake? Well, I was a young lad when President Johnson got on live TV and said, I will I cannot accept the nomination of my party. And why did President Johnson do that? He did so because he was extremely unpopular thanks to the Vietnam War and his support of a losing campaign. But more importantly, Bobby Kennedy entered the race and was sweeping the polls like wildfire. And President Johnson knew he didn't have a snowball's chance in hell. So he just said, I'm taking myself out of it. I don't think we're too far different right now where Joe Biden is on his his his polling numbers and you could do all the checkboxes you want now as far as getting some cooperation from Joe Manchin and some of these bills. Climate change is one of the nice ones and prescription drug costs being reduced. Those are great things for the tides in. I think that the the popularity of Joe Biden has seen the best of his days. And I don't think it is up to Joe Biden. I think he's going to be a whispered in the ear. Joe, let's let someone else who can win this election come up to the forefront. So I don't think I don't think he could win the election. Go ahead. Yes, I don't disagree with that. But just look at it from the Republican's viewpoint. This is not the Vietnam War where there's tremendous divisiveness between the country within the country and even within the party. If Biden steps down without a reason which people believe, which in my mind would only be health, the Republicans are going to say they can't even re-nominate their president and you're going to reelect that party. I mean, I think it's suicide, absolute suicide. So I don't think there's a thing the Democrats or Biden can say that will save them no matter who their candidate is in less. And I'm not wishing this. Something happens to Biden and he can't. It is incapable of running again. That's my view. Yeah, I think it's a good point. Good point. I just like to say one thing in the minds of the GOP. I think if Biden does not win, they'll walk away from Donald Trump. I think they'll stick with Trump only if Biden stays in the race, because they know Donald Trump this time can beat Biden. Despite what the polls are saying, and it's a close poll, by the way, within two or three percentage points, it's close. The GOP will walk away from Trump for sure if Biden decides not to do a second term. You don't have to worry, because this last time I checked the Constitution, an indicted person can't run for president. Oh, from your lips, the God's ears. Are you talking about Article 14, Section 3? Maybe. Now, that provides if somebody has been in insurrection against the government. Yeah, right. That person is disqualified. But you don't need to be indicted for that. You don't need to be, doesn't say indicted. If we're talking about that same provision. And my question is, have we thought about that? Is Trump out? Is there enough evidence to put him out? Is he still a viable candidate? Can he get his base to, you know, make such a stink that he can somehow get on the ballot regardless of what's in the Constitution? I don't think so. And the January 6th Committee findings and they're sinking in, Fox is running them. I'm glad that Tim said that the polls show that Biden can beat Trump. OK, but yeah, maybe there's a margin of error. Maybe it's just within maybe there even. But I have faith in Joe Biden. Hey, he's he's basically an alpha male, but he's got a nice veneer that everybody likes. And if he gets this this through and a few other things, he'll be viable. And who says, look it, you've got, you know, 90 year olds popping around the Senate and like that. And and the and so I don't think that he needs. I disagree with that. I think he has the choice, as we said before, that he can choose to step down if he wants to. But with like what Jay said, that that would really be a misstep politically. I don't think the Republicans, if the Democrats could figure out how to fight, which they've never been able to do, are going to be able to use the age issue when Mitch McConnell is the same age or even older. And he is head of the Senate. I mean, I mean, if the Democrats knew what they were doing, they would already have started this argument about it. You're talking about Biden's age. What about the person you have fronting the Senate? You don't have to go any further than that. I mean, age can be neutralized because of the fact. Well, he gets up there and says, you know, I don't really feel that good. Yeah, I'm slowing down. And I would like to see, let me go further. And then he starts inviting Stephanie's favorite Gavin Newsom to the White House and they have these chats in the Oval Office and he gets advice from him. And Gavin Newsom gets more on television and the press is all stirred up over Gavin Newsom and somebody for vice president, Amy Klobuchar or somebody. And what happens in my in my hypothetical, my case study, if you will, is that Biden is saying, without necessarily using those terms, that he endorses somebody. Gavin Newsom, for example, could be anybody else, but Gavin Newsom and Gavin Newsom gets out there. And I agree with you, Jeff, that the Democratic Party hasn't been able to get its act together, but the president can probably push somebody onto center stage. He can probably, you know, give some kind of a soft endorsement increasing as you go down the pike, you know, more and more as we get closer to 2024 so that it becomes clear this guy is his choice. And then we avoid having, you know, 15 or 20 possibilities up there on a stage, all arguing and throwing dirt on each other in a quote, debate, end quote, which would hurt them. I mean, I guess my question is if you assume for a moment that Biden is going to bow out and if you assume for a moment that he could advance soft endorse somebody, would that be the best way for the Democrats to get it together? Well, I don't know who you're directing. I'm talking to Jeff. OK, I'll be very quick and let someone else respond. If he's unpopular, the last thing you want is his support. I, you know, I don't know how unpopular he'll be, but if his ratings remain about 30 percent or 32 percent, if I'm the Democratic potential nominee, I don't want him in my campaign rallies. OK, so then, and I'll ask Tim the same question in a moment. How do the Democrats get it together to advance as, you know, one candidate, you know, one running one ticket and so that we don't have 15 people fighting with each other on the stage. Well, can I? OK, yeah, please respond, Stephanie. Jeff Jeff brought up the good point about the Newsome issue of his his LA mayorship and all this. Yes, Gavin Newsome is up to his neck in crocodiles because he was married to the Trump junior woman and he was also hanging out with Kamala Harris and Biden's Bo Son and all of them were a big hooey when they were in the A.G. positions and also when Willie Willie, not Nelson, but Willie was the governor, the mayor of San Francisco. So Willie Nelson, it would have been better off. So that was a huge cabal there that was very powerful and you're so right. So I mean, we're going to we would hear a lot about that. So I don't know if that is interesting to the country to know that he would have that various a background. I mean, some of this kind of gossip and junk is, you know, sometimes OK, I look at Trump, for God's sake, because Gavin Newsome has so much else going for him. He's got the grit and he even invited Florida to come to California. Yeah, I mean, is coming right on. And I need to correct myself and thank you. He was mayor of San Francisco, not Los Angeles. Yeah, it was San Francisco. He's going to inherit all of what the country believes about San Francisco now. Yeah, but he is OK. He's handled it and he has done, you know, but any of them is going to be the object of hit pieces. They're going to attack each other left and right and center. The press will have a field day on everyone. So, Tim, I wanted to get to you on this. How do the Democrats behave in terms of advancing a candidate? Let's let's make the assumption that Biden is not going to not going to run for a moment. How can the Democrats do something here? Or are they cooked anyway? Well, how did they behave before Joe Biden got the nomination? Not well. So, you know, I mean, the Democrat party is split between the progressives of Elizabeth Warren and OAC and, you know, we have in the Bernie Sanders on that side of the party. And then you have the more moderates and Joe Barton was supposed to be a moderate and he kind of turned out to be a little bit more progressive. But the bottom line is, how do they behave as every every time a presidential campaign comes up horribly? Why do the Republicans do so well? Because they stay on task. They they follow the bullet points and they're well disciplined. Simple as that. And also mentioned something else, too, and Jeff made a reference to it. The Democrats do not know how to fight. They are wimps. They have no ability to stand on their own two hind legs. They're they're this they're horrible at it. And that's the way it is. What would you do to stay? What was your advice to them? My advice is retain the Lincoln Project again. Let them teach you how to do it. OK, all right, Jeff, what would you what would you add to that? Or what would you disagree with? No, I think, you know, Tim and I are on the same page. I mean, you know, I mean, the Democrats are are toothless when it comes to knowing how to campaign and how to fight. And, you know, and they're bitterly divided. Although when's the last time you heard Bernie Sanders name, by the way? They've they've put him in some closet. He hasn't come out in months. I don't mean it in another way. I mean, it's crazy what they've done. And frankly, I think it's smart because they don't have any chance with that wing of the party running for president. Yeah, you can run for mayor of Los Angeles and Philadelphia and probably win the governorship in California and New York. You've got to find a moderate. And, you know, Amy Klobuchar of all the people that have been mentioned I think she's the best of all. I think she's a Midwestern woman that speaks clearly, is not seen as being extreme on either side, is a compromiser. I don't think she's got enough support to become the nominee for president. But for vice president, she'd be perfect. They have to find an A.B. Klobuchar, Klobuchar, who has the ability to win. Well, we're we're still a year and a half off, maybe somewhere in there. Some way. Well, that's my point about, you know, you may find somebody we don't even know about. I mean, you know, I was involved in that campaign back in 72. Nobody even knew what Jimmy Carter was. Then they figured out how he was the governor of Georgia and was a peanut farmer. And he became president of the United States. You can argue about how good or bad he was. I'm just talking about who was talking about Jimmy Carter a year and a half before that election. Nobody. That's true. So we can make all the lists we want. There is 330 million people in this country. And, you know, anybody can be president. Well, if you qualify, so that nobody can be president, even if you don't qualify that. I want to say Jimmy Carter was Admiral Rick Overs Boyd and a big deal with the atomic slash nuclear submarines. This Jimmy Carter came out as under the guise of peanut farmer. And that is not what Jimmy Carter was all about. So, yeah, he brought a lot of, you know, he had a lot of bad luck. He certainly did. But he had no shortage in the brain, you know, brain cell department. So Edward Kennedy elevated Jimmy Carter, I'll put it that way. Well, and also I wanted to just if you don't mind my bringing this up. But the fact of the matter is as we go forward and the abortion thing carries on and then we got the contraceptive thing. And then, you know, that the human, the human has 18 to 19 pregnancies. If there is no birth control on average, that's data from hundreds of years. So when people start staring down at 20 kids, they're definitely going to be seeing some problems with their their spending expenditure potential and how they're going to live. So there's some realities that are coming home to roost that are going to drive their attention to some of the some of some of what Gavin Newsom is doing. I mean, he's taking this on seriously, whereas this DeSantis guy is doing more control of everybody and even telling you what to say and speak. And of course, don't dare say anything in the classroom or you're really fired. So I think that I also am reading the polls. I might my reading is different because I see it's turning as far as the house and the Senate. And it looks like they finally got the Georgia candidate. The football player has finally blown his blown his cover of competence. And it looks like that's a pickup, one of the easiest pickups. So so it's looking a lot better in the Senate. It's not a pickup. It's a retainer to maintain it. Yeah. It's not. Yeah, I don't know what to do. The only places they have a possibility of picking somebody up is maybe Wisconsin, where I was just at, because Ron Johnson is loony, but still still pretty popular. And you're talking about Texas. I don't think that Iraq has a chance. And, you know, I mean, where else are they going to pick somebody up? Well, what do you mean? And then they look at it. What do you? Beto is closing in. I mean, he was six, but now once you see it's Texas, it's Texas. It's not going to happen. You know, I mean, this is pretty hard for. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like it's like saying Stacey Abrams is going to win the governorship in Georgia. I mean, she may be a very viable candidate, but in Georgia, she'll make it close. And hopefully it'll happen. But it would be it would be a very surprising victory. But where, you know, where are the other democratic seats for pickup in the Senate? I can't think of all all the races, but I'm just going by by memory. They're vulnerable in Arizona. They're vulnerable in Nevada, Alaska, too. She she might not make it. But you'll have to agree, Stephanie, that if the Republican Senate, she's one of the few Republicans you hope does make it. Well, it does make it. I know. But she disappointed us. That's why we have Kavanaugh on the main woman. If the Republicans take the Senate, no more Mr. Nice guy on Biden's initiatives. He won't get anything through. So but I wanted to ask you this, Jeff, before we get off that, it seems to me from this discussion, that's very hard to predict. It's impossible. Yeah, impossible. It's impossible. I mean, if you want to go to Las Vegas, I mean, if you want to go to Las Vegas now, I'm sure you can. Or on one of these online gambling sites, I'm sure they have odds posted for all the people you've mentioned and probably the you know, the category anybody else. You know, if you're a gambler, go ahead and throw some money on somebody that's 20 or 30 to one. You may you may turn out to make some money on the election. The greatest paramutual in the world. But let me, you know, all that considered all these possibilities that we've talked about. What's the time frame here? When do these things have to get organized? Or when will it be too late? You got to get to 20, you got to get through 2022 first. I mean, absolutely. Even then it's probably too early, but they'll start running. People will start going to New Hampshire or whoever has the first primary now in February or March of next year. Yeah, OK, you know, two years, which is still two years. So, you know, the Europeans laugh at us and the Canadians laugh at us. And they should. The elections take five weeks. OK, absolutely. So, so, Tim, what is your thought about, you know, how all of these swirling possibilities are going to be resolved? There will be something we cannot anticipate at all. And when will that happen? Whatever it is. I'm with Jeff. My answer is Jimmy Carter. Yeah, something's going to happen. He's the only person who's older than Biden. And you've got to shut up. What is he, a hundred now? OK, you've got one turn left, according to the Constitution. So, you know, I'm with Jimmy. No, I all this swirling around is just that it's all this swirling around. I'm still checking my earpiece when I heard Stephanie say that Joe Biden was the alpha male. You know, he should have used that alpha male against Joe Manchin. He is not the alpha male, and he's not perceived as the alpha male. And that's why he's not going to be reelect elected for a second term as the alpha male. It's just not going to happen. The best thing they can start to do is have Joe start, as you suggested, Jay, start sending signals that there might be an heir apparent and, you know, start putting his arm around folks during gatherings and at the podium. But until then, the Democrats, it's a lost, hopeless cause. And you heard it for me today. All right, well, let's go. Let's go to the Republicans just for a moment here. Seems like the Santas is emerging. There have been a number of articles saying that he's he's the front runner among the non-Trump Republicans. What do you think, Stephanie? Is he an alpha male? Well, now I think that, yeah, it's a joke. Oh, OK, yeah. But let me just say that this alpha male thing, this Joe Biden. Look, this is an alpha male in sheep's clothing. You know, you've got to look. Oh, big time clothing. Jimmy Carter. You think Jimmy Carter is a peanut farmer, right? You know, I mean, but the same thing with Joe Biden. He's up there. Everybody, he hasn't missed a step, except when he anyway. So we'll see what he did. Miss a step with Joe Manchin and destroying his whole platform. His whole administration. Wait, wait, wait, wait, he did miss a step. Walking up the ramp to an airplane. But he knows how to play it. This is a smart guy. OK, OK, onto the Santas now. Where does the Santas fit? Now, DeSantis is a Harvard grad. He's a bright boy. That doesn't mean anything anymore, you know. Yeah, right. OK, so anyway, but he's, you know, and he knows where to put his feet on the staircase. And that's what he's been doing. But he's running the he's ignoring Trump and trying to keep a B Teflon about Trump and just keeping the smarts on his own business. So he's been very, very. What is it? He's been strategic, strategic in everything that he does and tactical. And he's he's also present presentable. He and he and Gavin, you know, they're they're both good on TV. My my my my guess is Josh Hawley. Well, are you saying are you saying here on Think Tech Hawaii that Josh Hawley has a chance to be president of the USA? Are you saying that? That's what the Republicans want. They want Josh Hawley or Holland. It's Josh Hawley. Holly. It's Josh. I'm running through the hallway for my life. It's either either either that or what's his name in Texas? You know, you want to get a real crazy. Don't say Cruz. OK, what you're really saying is that they get a real crazy. That's the problem. That's the problem. I have a great chance. The problem is DeSantis is a very viable. He's a very extraordinarily viable. If I'm a Democrat, I hope Mickey Mouse runs them over the next time he goes to Orlando. Can you believe that? Because he is he is a very viable candidate. Yeah, that's what he needs to go up against Gavin, because they they'd be well, that would be an interesting race of very aggressive alpha white males. Well, real obvious open alpha. Well, you know, we've talked about the problem that Trump is having to the extent that he is having a problem with the insurrection committee, the January sick committee. You know, he's getting old, too. And his base may be leaving him and he's making really stupid statements. I hope they picked up on that. And he's still with the big lie. You know, it gets tiresome, actually. So, you know, the question is, is DeSantis going to have Trump? Is he going to be able to eat Trump's lunch? If so, then we really have a race going on and the Democrats have a bigger problem than we thought. Yeah, right, because we got a smarter Trump. Yeah, yeah, good point, Jack, really. Well, I hate I hate these good points. They're terrifying. I'd like to say one thing, though, as I'm not a big fan of DeSantis, but let me say this, he's not psychotic. And I'll take anybody that the GOP puts up that isn't a psychopath, a narcissist, sociopath, psychopath, you name it. I don't want that as of my next president. You see the reverse, though. The reverse is the quality is good for the Democrats because he's out of his mind. DeSantis is not good for the Democrats because he's not out of his mind. Look, if we were having this podcast in 2014 and somebody mentioned Donald Trump as a potential nominee we would be laughing out loud. Are you kidding me? Whoever would make that statement? He ran as a joke. He ran as a joke because he wanted to increase the ratings on the apprentice. He's basically admitted that. And then that joke became a reality. So for us to sit here and kind of predict who is going to be the nominee of either party, just go back to the last two elections ago. Trump was a TV personality that people laughed at. And we saw what happened. So I ain't laughing. OK, no. Although I will say this, having been saying just now that it's impossible, I will give you very good odds that Trump will never be nominated this time around. It strokes my heart to hear that. That's that. But that's not your final comment. We're going to have final comments now. No, that is my final comment. You can repeat it. We'll have you on tape twice. Stephanie, what's your last thought here? Just happened to be watching Wagon Train. I had to take a little break to get myself off the frustration and there's the Wagon Train and and there are the guys coming in with the black hat, shooting everything up, wanting, you know, all their stuff to do to be what they want and knocking everybody around and ruining the organization of the the trip and just causing all kinds of havoc and then having to get killed at the end by the guys in the white hats. But anyway, the point is it's those are the guys that are the Trump followers. So I mean, I can't help. But every time I see one of these Westerns, it's all these guys. We all watch these shows for 20 years of our youth and they're all don't tell me what to do. I want a gun. I can shoot you in the face if I don't like it and I'm going to do whatever I want. And these people have been empowered by Trump. This the this this type of person that has been out there. I mean, they've been Ruby Ridge. They've been Waco. They've been out there in the West, their militia, but they've never had the the power that and the attention that that Trump has allowed for them to grow on all for his own benefit, which they don't get that part of it, why that happened. But they don't want to give it up. And so they're there and have to now have some respect because they're their powerhouse. They the biggest factor, Jeff? Didn't I give my last remark a second ago? Yeah, I forgot already. I was going to say good night, John Boyd. Since we're talking about old television, black and white shows. Paul and Peter, I remember. I think it's nice that you're doing a podcast trying to predict who's going to be running for president two and a half years from now. And we've had fun doing it. I I stand by. I would never try to guess who's coming out. It's a, you know, a horse race that's starting long before the horses get to the starting gate. And we'll see. I still think if Biden believes unless there's a health issue that Biden will be the nominee. And on the Republican side, if you're forcing me to guess, I think it's the Santas and I think that's the race. What are the odds that that's going to happen? Probably five percent. OK, Tim, you're going to you're going to suggest that Tim DeJoy or James Murray. Only kidding, not on my final comment. For the final comment, it's the following. The best thing that Democrats can do for themselves is, number one, firm up their platform for 2024. Make sure that's a middle of the road, something that all Americans, you know, dinner table issues that get on that platform and they stick to it. Number two is signing an agreement. Not what like Ronald Reagan would always has as a commandment. Thou shall not throw any Democrat under the bus. Number three, Whispering Joe Biden's ear, Joe, stick to the one term. And last but not least, grow a spine, learn how to fight, sign up the Lincoln Project for your main campaign strategy and go from there. Five, one more comment, because I think you're not going to see that. I think the way the country is going, the Democrats are going to run on social issues. I think they're going to run on abortion. You're going to lose. Well, I think they're going to run on abortion. I think they're going to run on gun control. I think they're going to run on on civil rights. And that's not how you win, but that's how they're posturing themselves. You know, James Carville said it and they had it on the Clinton's desk. It's the economy, stupid game Carville. They're going to lose. OK, Stephanie. Well, I'm just saying if the women of this nation are not going to do what they're predicted to do, that that 52 percent of the population is pretty much excited about some of these an issue or two, as well as a lot of their their male friends. So I don't think that's that's minimal. I think that that's power. That's empowering the the election. If they're good night, Bobby. John Boyd. Thank you, Stephanie, Stephanie and Tim. Aloha, too. Aloha.