 This is the call to build OGM on Tuesday, June 8th, 2021. And because Frishman offers up, he's going through a really long list. You get on the one hand, this feeling of overwhelm like, oh my God, all these things. But on the other hand, this feeling of, damn, there's a lot of things we can do that actually work that would actually get us some place. And that's nice. It's a good feeling. Now you muted yourself, Klaus. Klaus, you're still muted. I agree. I mean, theoretically, this is all possible. But then you just look at, and I see a lot of movement in food this year. And United Nations has focused its 2021 on the Food Systems Summit, which is actually happening this week. In fact, the first things that are coming through, the Culinary Institute of America in Harvard have their menus of change. And they invited Jeffrey Sachs to give the opening address. And you know, Jeffrey Sachs is like always over the top with his statements. So it's clearly, I mean, it's clearly underway, but it is also at the same time clearly resisted by the industry. And continuing to try and try to slow it down and divert and so on. And so they're just flat out of time. I mean, I'm running this, I'm going with this webinar for biofuels. I mean, that's another eye-opener. And you see that we have the state of Iowa basically size under corn production for biofuels using irrigation water and stuff. So it's just, it's massive. It could have easily been done if you had started 10, 20 years ago, but it just gets bigger and bigger. I'd like to turn our attention to the call coming up on Thursday to figure out how we can make it better. But before that, my mind drives me to ask, has anybody studied the impact of cheap desalination? Well, first, super cheap energy, leading to lots of cheap desal, leading to the replenishment of a lot of water supplies, leading to better agriculture and solutions for lots of places. Because it seems from Ramesh Naam and a bunch of other people that solar is getting too cheap to meter fast in lots of different places. And add to that wind, add to that a bunch of other things, but solar has plunged so quickly. Oh, there we go. The precedent one there is cheap energy. And I think solar and wind are cheap, but also desal is energy intensive. So I don't know about capacities. And whenever I hear about desal, it's like probably you want nukes, you know, not. And I don't know, you know, I haven't studied it at all, but desal takes up a lot of energy. And I don't know how many, you know, how many hectares you need to pave with solar cells to get enough. And desalination creates a whole host of other problems, like in the Middle East, like in the Persian Gulf right now, Iran, I was reading an article that Iran is building desalination because they're also flat out of water, but they don't have enough money and access to technologies that they're using, sort of an outdated process. And it increases the salination of the Persian Gulf because you have Saudi Arabia, you have Iraq and Kuwait and UAE and Israel and everybody desalinating water and putting the prime right back into the sea. So this has clear limitations of how far you can go with this. Well, that's if you're sort of putting whatever you extract from the water, if you're dropping that back into the ocean. But if you didn't do that, you're not doing that. You're not changing the salinity of the ocean. And this is all beyond my pay grade, that's for sure. But partly I just looked in my brain. I had my brain set up to split screen properly and I just hit undo to get all there. And then finally back to where I can sort of share screen. But I have a fact from somewhere and I don't have it connected to where I got it, but these cell now only use two kilowatts per hour per cubic meter. This is a stat from 2016. And I don't know if only is it like shit, that's still a lot or if only is like, oh, that's kind of interesting. But long ago I was wondering why, solar cookers basically concentrate energy with no photovoltaic nada. Solar cookers concentrate a whole bunch of sunlight and you can boil water for nothing. Like you can boil water really pretty easily. And if we could just have solar cookers focused on diesel available in lots of places, doesn't that start to generate a bunch of water? I'm just, part of the problem here is we've overdrawn water supplies everywhere, which is like getting more than critical. And the article you forwarded last week about California in a 20 year drought, water crisis, et cetera. So then we shift farming to places that are flooding and under other kinds of stress. Like if we can geo engineer our way back to some water in the aquifer, I think good things happen. Yeah, but the core issue to solve is soil. Because- Which is probably a water issue. When topsoil is depleted, it does not absorb water. So the water penetration of highly carbonated soil versus the depleted soil is incredible. Exactly. But the way to get a plant to grow in the soil to reforest or whatever is to have a little bit of water there. Right. Because it's the lack of water that makes it almost impossible to reforest. Anyway, it's a lovely and confusing nexus of forces that, so in the shower this morning I realized we're not using our tools in OGM calls. We're not sharing visualizations. We're not tracking and weaving data together as we talk. I'm doing it on the side as we talk. Like I'm trying, here's the talk I just mentioned and I put a link for today's Stuart's call and I kind of keep track this way. And here's our last Tuesday's call and some of the things that we connected to it. So here, this is what I do, right? And this is okay and slightly interesting, but wouldn't it be great if we were sort of using multiple tools to co-curate what's going on? So here's a Stuart Brands quote. I would rather hire a high level World War Cross player than an MBA from Harvard, which came up, I think Bill Anderson or somebody brought it up last week. So I do that during the calls. I'm busy curating that way, but if we had the system diagram for how water works in this nexus at hand and could annotate it, link to it, bring it back in and tell a story, that would be super powerful. So I'm wishing we used our tools more. I mean, one simple idea there would just be to add it to the agenda and have a running kind of annotated list in the agenda of the links that come up. That's a great idea. I'm trying to figure out how to stop the share now. And I think I've confused my computer enough about what windows where that I share button is visible, but not clickable. All right, done. So while I figure out how to unshare my screen, Phil, go ahead, Pete. I think it might be good to keep going on food and soil and the Thursday call. I was gonna head back toward the Thursday call and our agenda and so forth, so go ahead. I think, so Klaus made like an amazing kind of list of here's what we should do and that's an email right now. Maybe I can copy and paste it. I'll get my email up and copy and paste it into the notes, but there's a wonderful list and I think it's, and right away, it looks like five people's worth of work. So I think, Jerry, you're probably pretty busy with other stuff. I'm probably pretty busy with other stuff. I think Phil's probably busy with other stuff. I don't see five people's worth of work or five people's worth of available folks, I guess. So that's kind of where I see the crux of the biscuit. It's like there's obviously something to do and I'm not sure that we have the resources to do it. So then maybe it's recruiting or something like that. I wanted to mention, I was talking through this a bit with a friend, Trudy Miller, and she actually likes to, I was saying, it's kind of like there's a big problem and we've got a bunch of people who, there's GRC involved, there's Klaus who's got this amazing subject matter expertise, but also maybe not a lot of time. And we need to figure out how to recruit and yada, yada. She's like, that's actually kind of the problem, that's the kind of problem I like to jump into and kind of start sorting out how to get, how to bootstrap into having enough resources to get going. So one question I had just for Jerry and Klaus is, do you think it's okay if I invite Trudy to the Thursday call or do we need to do more of that? I think it's a fabulous idea to invite Trudy to the call. I like your great idea. And my own approach to this kind of situation and I'm not good at this, is a, one of the things GRC is really good at is as a recruiting hall for people interested in stuff. Like GRC is very good at bringing interesting people into the mix, mixing the pot a lot, do what they do, speed dating on Fridays. So you meet a lot of people and there's a bunch of really interesting people and there are some of them might like to participate in this. So we have a recruiting class. There's a really big recruiting call here where how do you bring people in? And then my second approach here is something that I think of as a ground roots OGM principle, which is like, if anything exists in the world already, don't invent it, help it flourish. Like don't try not to invent a thing. And so as you get the bullet list of things that need to be done, places of leverage, places we could do stuff, if there are organizations already doing those things, then how do we convene them, connect them and wire their energies together and then take new recruits and add them to those efforts and help be a coordinating function across those things. And only in the case where one of these levers doesn't exist, might we then try to staff it because that's what the recruiting is like. We gotta staff some of these things. If energy is needed to stand up a regenerative food, supply distribution system with this particular focus, then we need to figure that out. But OGM is in no position to create a platform to make a market. Like we don't have the staff, the resources or anything like that to do that. I'm just making that up as one of the things that seem to be important. But somebody's gotta be out there doing this sort of thing, right? So maybe let me explain how this came about. Do you remember some time back, I posted a McKinsey study that I was hired to operationalize for this international company? Yes, and it had sort of process steps. Then a small business steps. And I think I looked at it and I thought this feels like McKinsey's answer to all small startup-y sort of things. It didn't seem very tuned to the situation. So I advanced this thing. Because that was my tool that I used. First of all, I was teaching this thing to my staff. We had coops in 30 countries and each country had, that's somewhere between three and five people charged with target coop, management, customer segmentation and customer identification and so on. So there was a whole process. And what it boiled down to is it was a blueprint that you developed out of this structure for each country. So India was doing something different than Germany or France, right? But they used the same process structure. So that's what I was coming to. Food systems are the same anywhere in the world. It doesn't matter what the breakfast, lunch and dinner menus look like. They're all originate on the farm. They go through a supply chain process that is completely identical. But when you have people on the side of the road in Kenya carrying their food on their head who don't have a plastic bag to put around the food because they don't even have a bag or wheelbarrow, is that the same as somebody who's loading up a truck and moving it to market? Well, the principle is, I mean, depends on the size we are talking about. I mean, we're going into a more commercial application. So we need somewhat elevated forms of logistics. At a certain scale, it kicks in, I totally get that. Whole bunch of farmers, small farmers, small holders who don't have roads, don't have trucks, don't have containers even to carry their stuff. That's a huge piece of the world, I think. It is, in India, a lot of crops are being lost because they don't have crates to create their tomatoes or their permit for the truck. And the bottom 30 smush by the time they go to the market. Yeah, I mean, those are all issues, but I'm not sure we have to deal with those here. I would now focus on the US to get started and GRC can translate that and we can help them translate that into other applications. But the market gap that is clearly there is for all these support services, the investment companies, the logistics, and so on, all these groups that I have mobilized already, they have a problem to scale. And I distributed one video from an investment forum with a guy who was explaining what I'm now explaining in just really nice detail and totally got a hand over it. And he learned it. It's not like he knew that to get started with, but he figured out the complexities of a food business by the time you try to connect the farm to the consumer or to the final eater. And so the gap really is to go into a community and find out what are the unique resources already in place. So like this group we're meeting on Thursday, they have 30 farmers who have come together, they agreed to form a co-op and they're now wanting to engage and they're wanting to build their market. Well, so what kind of logistics opportunities do you have already? Is there somebody in the market already that is a logistics provider? Who are your potential customers? Have you thought through contacting the hospital, contacting the school catering, working with the restaurant that you're working with? So what does that mean in terms of contracting, right? Because you need to know what these customers want to buy in what types of products, what quantities and so on somewhere in the future. Have you thought that through? How does this process work? So out of this interview process, we can build a blueprint and then we can hand that blueprint over to companies or to entities who want to operate in that space. So once we have a range of contacts, there are different blends, different mixes of needs that a community may have. One may be already quite advanced but they could really take advantage of the local currency option, right? So we can build like modules. As a local currency module, send it around double your foot back program. There is an intentional community module. Maybe there's a co-op that also wants to do co-housing as a program. So we can build out options that we can offer a community in this development process when they're thinking through what would we want to do in our community with our options? Where can we go with this? And we could develop a software shell, a software structure that you lay in as you go on. So for example, I've gone through several SAP installations in my life. So SAP is a software shell, right? I mean, it's an empty, it's a structure that you have to fill in and develop as you go into, this is a hotel, this is a theme park, this is whatever. And so we could develop a software shell like that that you fill out as you go into a specific community and then you can hand them. Here's a blueprint that you can evolve with further and hear your partners. I think doing that also gives us a chance to monetize this process because we have to make some money in order to pay people salaries so that we can attract talent to this. So we would have to maybe have to launch this and we have to develop a couple of pilots to do and to improve of concept. But as we move further with that and we can demonstrate the credibility and the expertise here, this is a marketable product. I just want to pick up on one thing you said that I don't know why the word hasn't been in my mind before around OGM, but this idea of blueprints. Blueprints is a really, really nice handy metaphor for instructions to build something that are just the instructions, right? There's no business model necessarily behind it. And the blueprint might be a blueprint of a business model. That's great. But the idea of having a vault full of blueprints, I'm reminded of the Indiana Jones scene I've got behind me a little bit, which is the dysfunctional version of the vault. But that lights up in my head really nicely because that's a thing that people can rummage through to find the blueprint that they need to go instantiate somewhere wherever they are. So sorry, that really rang loud for me. I have to pull my bread out of the oven and I'll be right back. Excellent. Don't let it burn. I would add patterns to blueprints. Yeah. And I've got a thing I want to say about what Klaus said. Cool. Do patterns sort of dissolve into blueprints and vice versa sort of kind of also? Like, might blueprints be more effective? Might blueprints be very effective if they included patterns as part of the blueprint? That's what I'm saying. I definitely think so, yeah. A blueprint is almost like a set of patterns. Yeah. And most blueprints in most domains include the assumption of all the knowledge of their particular domain. So architectural blueprints for the building include what everybody knows about sanitation and wet walls and whatever, whatever. Yeah. So that makes sense. But making it more explicit and more available by embedding pattern languages in the blueprints feels to me like a great way to build the pattern language and to have a lot of great blueprints. I agree. And Philly, you were going to jump in or something too, I think? Just really quickly, that link I shared on Armillaria, it's actually the founder is one of the founding members of Zebra's Unite, the Zebra's Co-op. But their whole purpose is to be the connective tissue of knowledge sharing in works like if a native people in Ghana are able to fundraise and create a well, how can that learnings from that be taken to New Zealand's Aboriginal people and shared that way? So that might be they have the processes in place or to kind of share those. They might be someone to connect with in this effort. And before going back to Pete, because Pete wanted to add something to what you said, Klaus, I'm very friends with the founders of Zebra's Unite. I spoke at their first event at their first DazzleCon and love them. And the reason I don't participate very much in Zebra's is that I'm just not a finance guy. And I don't get it like that conversation doesn't work so much for me. So I don't really kind of, I'm not drawn into that, but it occurs to me that attaching Zebra's to what you're trying to build Klaus might be a really brilliant move and Armillaria might be the perfect sort of venture to do that. So I think inviting them into the sequence of conversations would be really terrific. Thank you for bringing that into the conversation. That's just awesome. For sure. Yeah, I actually have a meeting with Madeleine later today so I'll mention it to her. Hot damn. That's awesome. I love the small world. Pete. I wanted to kind of, Klaus, you're, you know, it sounds, you've, you understand what to do and it should be done, right? And right away it looks to me like three or four or five FTEs. And so that's the, that's the crux of the biscuit that, you know, I don't know how we get around that. I think that's the design of what the project ends up being is like, there's a recruiting and funding aspect to this. Yeah, but who does the recruiting and funding? It's like, you know, really we're in a bootstrap thing, right? I wanted to share real quick and, you know, maybe Trudy thought she, you know, I sound frustrated when I talked to Trudy about that and she's like, no, Pete, this is a good problem. This is awesome. I wanted to just note, this is kind of a list of startup stuff, you know, as a sovereign comes together, I, you know, these are the kinds of things that you need, a place to, like, a place to call your own, a place where people can keep talking, all of these things I guess are, they're set up to be a funnel for the next stuff, right? So you want a place to talk, it could be a chat or a chat channel or an email list, probably not an email thread. This is where we are right now, right? We've got an email thread, but we don't have, like, a list or a chat channel. Our chat channel on OGM, maybe we could repurpose that, but it's not, we're not using it that way yet. You want to have a document library, I would say a Wiki, but, you know, it could be Google Docs or whatever. We don't even really have a good name for this. Whenever I talk to people, it's like, well, there's this food system realignment thing or there is the soil, regenerative agriculture and soil and, you know, so just this kind of stuff would help us a lot with the next level of bootstrapping, right? Because right now, you can't even point to somebody and say, you know, these are the things that we've collected in our document library, you know, here's the URL that you can, here's what we're doing, you know, here are the people that you might want to join with. And these things are, these particular things are cheap to do and very doable. And also- Yeah, these are doable, yeah. And my Zoom is really blocky. I think I need to get out and get back in, so I'm gonna drop off, I won't close the meeting, so you shouldn't disturb anything, but my Zoom is behaving very poorly right now. So, as soon as I regain control over Zoom, I will BRB. Awesome. I'm gonna export this to a PNG and put it in the channel. Cool. Here we go. I'm back and I will... That was fast. No, I was, I haven't left yet, so I'm gonna make you host them. I'll make you host and BRF back. I mean, would it be possible to have a call to action? Obviously, those base components will be very helpful, but even if you just had a name and a mission to start within OGM itself, and then maybe some initial roles that need to be filled, it could just be interesting to see who reaches out regarding interest. Yeah, I'm working with Jordan to develop a more specific business plan. And so I sent him a draft version and he's not working with it now. So hopefully we have something concrete to lay out where you have a better view of what resources may be needed here, what type of software you would be using, and so on. Cool. But this is no big mystery. I mean, I had people working on these issues who had no particular background. No, they were just mostly MBA guys who stirred it up. I mean, they went through the explanations. I showed them some practical examples when I was going into the country and then they went off and wrong with it. I mean, it's... Yeah. So from the list that Peter showed us, for example, recruiting, it's probably relatively simple exercise to go from, we need to recruit people to what people, what roles, what skills that they need to have and making that visible. That seems like an easy task. And then... So then we should assign it. Well, I think Klaus... And I don't know if you've run many projects. So maybe that's the thing you can do. And if not, raise your hand and, you know, convene a meeting just to do that one task. Like, what are the humans we need for this project? And then separate but in parallel, exposing whatever the name of this project is as a fundable thing and writing... Not a whole grant proposal or a grant request, but like what you're funding if you're pouring money into this. And then we can expose that. And I'm trying to figure out how to fund, not just OTM, but neighbor projects so that if somebody comes along and says, well, what you're doing doesn't smell quite right. But boy, what Klaus is up to, that really rings my bell. I want there to be like... And by the way, here's a bucket you can pour money into for Klaus. Right? I want to exactly have that sort of available. And I would like to curate the buckets that I think are like aligned with how I see the world because my curation of what you could donate to might be useful information. And then there should be a hundred other people like me curating sort of ways to save the world by funding different kinds of projects. And if that's all of which is simple infrastructure to set up. You know, none of that is rocket science. It just requires some organization and having a directory of places or a dashboard of whatever's or using somebody else's sort of funding infrastructure and building a playlist there or a curated collection there, something like that. But I think this is sort of within our reach. Yeah, I mean, just to expand on this a little bit when I had my pre-meetings with Sam, you know, who is the young man from GRC and who is taking the lead on this. So he basically came back to me and he goes, I really like what you're doing and your knowledge and I want to pick up on it. But because I also want you to know that you have like no chance of landing with this the way you approach it now. And what do you mean by that? What you mean by that is that you have to set up a process that gets people to draw in and trust you and understand where you're coming from and so on and so on. So which is he wants to demonstrate that part this Thursday. So he's using that CREU component of saying before we talk about anything with these people, you know, they have to first of all know who are we, you know, are we some MBA slickers or do we really understand their situation and so on and so on. So that is an important component. So there's a process structure that involves the initial engagement, trust building, before we talk about any technical stuff. So once we are through that hurdle, then actually the process is really simple because it's an interview process but you have to have people totally on board and really wanting to engage with this first. And it feels like that's an exercise we can do in a series of recorded Zoom calls. Like, if we're stepped through the right questions and show up properly, then publishing the Zooms and editing them up the way KikoLab does really, really well but editing up a bunch of Zoom conversations could turn into that asset. And I think that would be really, really good. Right. Oh, sorry, Dave. I dropped that list, I typed it up and took it out of my diagram. So I typed that up and put it in the matter most. Thank you. It sounds like Sam is kind of on the same hunt that the rest of us are with, you know, just the initial bootstrap stuff. How do you get people, you know, how do you start to coalesce people around you, you know? You need the name and the kind of what you're about and who you are and, you know, place to connect to and things like that. So that's really good. I'm cheered to hear that. Me too. And I have my first, how do you do with Sam this afternoon? Awesome. We booked a call just to say hi and get to know each other. Go ahead, Phil. So, Klaus, is Sam building a pitch deck of sorts? It sounds like it's kind of earning the right exercise. If that makes sense, kind of earning the right to be the person who takes this on or be the organization that takes on this issue. Yeah, I was in a few meetings with GRC, basically just enough to get an idea of who they are and how they operate. And I remember one meeting with that was led by an indigenous young lady. Of course, anybody below 50 is a young lady to me. But I mean, it was, but what really struck me in this conversation is how tender and how vulnerable, you know, these folks are. This is not going into a company environment where everybody is basically on standby and highly motivated and engaged. So this is building trust with people who have been abused many, many times, right? So they don't, who are these guys? You know, they're just coming in with some big stuff here and create more problems for us. So even here in our community in Bend, I offered some time back to assist the Indian reservation that they have out there to organize their food system. And I could not get in because the, my quantity of high desert food and farmer line and see the contact goes that just don't trust some guy from Disney, you know, they come in here and tell them what to do. And so there is, there is really, it's a, it's a different cloud, you know, that we are maybe going to these community level NGOs and so on. I hope that in the process, we will also engage the business community that we find ways to engage the business community because as Jerry was saying, you know, we don't want to build a logistics firm. We want to find one that's they're already willing to collaborate. And, but yeah, so I told, I'm totally with Sam, which I told him to go, go lead away, you know, you know how to do it. And let's, you know, let's see what you come up with. And by the way, we're in the middle of a global work trauma, traumatic reorganization of work and workers, a whole bunch of people trying to find their way back into the economy. A bunch of people are like, hey, that minimum wage you were paying before, like in food services really, really sucked and unless wages come back up, I don't, that's not a job I want to head into. So there are people trying to figure out where they fit back in. Some of these people are deeply skilled and would love to be part of something like this. So, so creating kind of an environment and a way to attract people into this and to get them funded. If we can, if we can make that marriage, if we can help that marriage happen, it's good for a lot of folks everywhere. Just give you a few examples when I'm talking about modules in, in within the software. For example, my daughter had cancer, you know, stage four lymphoma cancer already in her own marrow and all. So I had to get deeply into, I mean, let me, let me know, I mean, holy smokes. She was like 26 years old when that happened, but she was choosing with non-organic raw podus, which is full of glyphosate, which we know causes lymphoma cancer. So I would take, I was taking a deep dive into how does this chemo work and what does it do and so on. And what I learned is that chemo basically wipes out the red and white blood cells and then your body rebuilds it. And in the process of rebuilding the cancer cells are weaker in their structure than your normal red and white blood cells are. So over several iterations, the cancer cells fall further and further behind until there are no more in an ideal world. So then my next question was, well, so how, what do red and white blood cells need to rebuild themselves or they need protein? Well, what does a cancer cell eat? What do they, what does a cancer cell feed itself on? Well, on glucose, sugar, right? So I created a diet for my daughter and I moved in with her. I cooked every meal, bought all the food and I had her clean in 10 weeks. I mean, untraceable and she has been clean ever since because I was developing a diet that was completely supportive, you know, of feeding your red and white blood cells and staffing the cancer cell. So she then participated in founding a non-profit that was in Nashville, which provided food for meals for cancer for chemo patients. And, but it never, so it's an idea that really hasn't expanded, but the insurance company is paying this non-profit to provide food to cancer patients because there is a demonstration that this is speeding up the recovery. It's actually really, because you have cancer patients who go home and drink a bottle of Coca-Cola because that's what they do and they just feed right this cancer cell and diminish the recovery of their regular, of their red and white blood cells. So we could build, for example, help somebody develop a kitchen and there are so many empty kitchens right now because restaurants that have defaulted and so on. You know, build a kitchen and then focus on creating meals for cancer patients who don't have the capacity to do this at home or the family support and whatever is needed, right? Just one idea, right? So there are dozens of things like this, you know, where we can engage and help small business development in communities. Which is incredibly fractal, distributed, granular, organic, local, it's lovely. Yeah. It's a blueprint, sort of. It's a very nice blueprint to try to feed into this system here. Okay, this all feels like really good planning for Thursday's call. What else do we need for Thursday's call? How else should we think about this? You know, I'm really, I told Sam and Lord saying, okay, so how can I prepare? And he goes by sitting put and watching this thing unfold. It's all good. We'll see where it goes with it. And so the, I mean, I think the outcome for the Thursday meeting is we have built a foundation of trust and the group is now willing to engage with us and we have talked about what we are trying to accomplish. I do think it's not too early for you to sit down and figure out what are the roles and sort of equivalence that are needed to stand up this thing. And the thing will evolve as you discuss it and we all, you know, help try to frame it. But like, is it two people who have video production skills and operation skills and probably not? Is it five people and if so, what is their skills mix or what are their job titles or something like that? I think that's something you could, you could make a lot of progress on in the very near term if you sort of think about this as a socially, social entrepreneur, entrepreneurial startup. Yeah. Yeah, I'll go, I'll get a little bit more into those. Yeah. And except for how the idea might shape shift a little bit on us, that's all stuff that you're probably very like, you've got all the expertise to do that. Okay. That would help. Phil created a really nice agenda for today's meeting. I think we've had a really fruitful, fruitful conversation just focused directly on item like six in the agenda. If we want to go back and stare at it, we can do that and think about it and I'm open to suggestions about what other people would like to do and we didn't do any check-in exercise or whatever as Phil had put on the agenda, which might be, like just a general check-in might be nice as well just to figure out like, where are we on this? How are we feeling on this thing? So thoughts? I feel checked in, like we're chatting already. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I posted this, this thing from Adam Boer. It's exhaustive. And then you need to watch this time. I mean, it just completely depressed me again, right? Because I mean, I don't know how many more. And then from there, I went into discussions on LinkedIn. Now I was angry, you know, and trying to reason with people and no, I mean, nothing has changed in the opinion of a pretty significant share of the population who just don't want to get this, you know, but we are in so much trouble, right? And, I mean, working on this biofuel that I'm right now on, you get even more scared because when you look at how we are depleting our water resources, you know, in addition to soil and so on, it is just, I mean, it's just really a crazy thing. So one discussion that I really sort of picked up on our OGM discussion on email, you know, this idea of involving TikTokers and having them create a swarm, you know, to focus on a specific topic like here is what we can do. By the way, this film, we have no time to lose. Also ends up talking about the food system as pretty much the only short-term scalable option to make a significant impact on climate change mitigation. Now, I mean, there is nothing else in the economy where you can short-term shift and create major changes and impacts. But I thought the idea of having these TikTokers be guided, you know, so information of what you can talk about to induce people to understand how the impact of your personal choices, the food you buy and consume, that could be really a powerful game changer because the food industry is highly vulnerable. You know, the moment people pick up on, look, there's glyphosate in the pressed milk of American mothers, right? And I mean, you can make this food as disgusting as it is in people's minds, right? It's an easy thing to change. And the reason it hasn't changed yet already is because the entire media depends on advertising revenue from these companies, you know, when you think about the soda companies and so on, billions of dollars they spend. So brief, brief introduction. I had a really nice conversation yesterday with Tom Gruber about OGM and about standing up and funding OGM and all that. We got into lots of, and I'm talking with him again tomorrow. And one piece of our conversation, he was on board a ship that went out to the Pacific gyre. And on board ship were people from Monsanto and like a whole collection of people, including people from industry, notably nobody I think from petroleum, but activists and a bunch of other people. And they put people in the water. They had, they had science. Tom was the underwater photographer for the trip. The trip, you, IDEO was on board as part of the designers of the event and so was Yaro Kramer and his hatch community. And I think Yaro was one of the instigators. And it was apparently really, really interesting because they got into the conversations about how to deal with, you know, they were three or four days trapped on a ship together. And that's a really good way to have deep conversations happen and all of that. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to, I'm aware of a couple other stories kind of like that where people from large corporations began to change their minds about what to do. And one of the people from Clorox apparently said, hey, when we talk about, we want to have no chemical residues left on the earth but still have cleaning products, that's okay. But when you talk about, let's eliminate your product category entirely. I can't be in that conversation, right? I can't have that conversation. And so, so I think there's, I think there's some, there's some smart people already doing things like that whom we can draw attention to and help. There's things we can borrow from their methods. And I don't mean chartering a ship and dragging people out to the Pacific Jire. I just mean the forms of convening and trust building. And I think that our experience with Sam on Thursday as, you know, with a piece of this process will be really interesting. And I think theory you is extremely, extremely interesting as a process for hosting some of these conversations. And there are other processes, but theory you is credible. What I love about theory you is that it has a lot of business cred, you know, and kind of similarly Michael Porter is famous for his competitive matrix and a bunch of other stuff back in the 90s. I went to business school and Porter's ideas were brand new and taking over the world. And then recently, he's been in charge of something called shared creating shared value is his latest trope. And when he introduces creating shared value, I watched the video. He was in a room of of sort of his clients and I, I was inferring an apology and some fear on his part because he was kind of saying that thing that you all jumped on that is the reason you're in the room that I did back in the 80s and 90s kind of fucked up the world in a bunch of really important ways. And this new model I've got is trying to rebalance things by saying no, no, no, no. We need to create shared value for the communities that we live in, et cetera, et cetera. There could be a win-win here. Look, look, look. And so I find Porter's approach much less interesting and credible than theory you and auto-sharmer, but they're both coming from the shelter of extremely credible business environments with deep process and lots of clients and lots of actual work with corporations and client relationships and all of that is really useful and good. And so I'm wondering what piece of the nexus that we're talking about connects into those credible conversations with the people who have their hands on the lever of these various industries and then at what point is their bypass here because like when you're trying to avoid glyphosates Monsanto is not going to be all that helpful, right? And so I don't know how to balance all that and I just think that there's a rich bundle of activities that are right next to where we're looking that we can maybe try to harness into this process. Yeah, I mean, the concentration in the food business is just astounding, right? I mean, there's the big food map, yeah. And 10 corporations basically, you know determine the fate of global food. That's really bad, but the good part is you have 10 boardrooms that if they change their mind, you know, you have a revolution and it's actually not that complicated. I explained that the other day about India, you know the changes that need to happen in the Indian food system. So you have the Western companies come in and they want to eliminate small farms, combine them into a larger tract, sell them tractors and equipment and then use bio-coded seeds and so on and so on. And that, of course, completely screws up the Indian farmer and community and deplete, I mean, more counter water depletions or destructions insane. Conversely, if you step back, you know, wonderful and you develop aggregation systems and information system that connect markets, you know so that I may be a small farmer with 50 acres but I'm getting advanced information that I should call 10 acres of carrots and 20 acres of lentils and whatever. So if the market intelligence gets built up then you can work the existing system, maintain your family farms and all of that and put the corporate structure behind it in a supportive way. And so that same, it's a shift in thinking where the supply chain has to decentralize. And so it can accommodate regional differentiations and then it can accommodate. So it can work with multiple farmers like we did for thousands of years, right? In co-ops and where the co-op was the aggregator and negotiator. So that's, that is sort of, you know a business-friendly way of dealing with this. It's a huge challenge for fast food chains, you know who completely rely on the centralized supply chain and on a standardized crop, you know where it's like Outback Steakhouse has these onions that they're blooming, right? That's like a bloom. Well, that name onion is so destructive, you know because the way they call this thing it's just a completely genetically modified crop raised in chemicals, McDonald's potatoes. It's just a complete disaster on the environment. So it's, those are the companies that will really struggle but that's also possible. They would have to build regional processing plants, you know, where rather than doing it on a national or global level, they bring it down to regional level so they can deal with product differentiations and menu differentiations. So it's all possible if the will is behind it. So what I'm hoping we can do is build a credible challenge to these market holders to say we gotta engage here because, you know, this could run away from us if we don't engage. And Klaus, Sam or yourself are you doing market research right now into who you'd want to partner with who you want to work with? I mean, I'm not sure what the business models are but I imagine like imperfect foods or misfit markets those kind of organizations aimed at stopping food waste might be willing to engage and maybe create boxes around kind of certain initiatives. There's also, I just put in the matter most I've recently was introduced this with the seeds kind of a currency and community around regenerative processes but they might also be an interesting group to engage with. Yeah, I think we will end up with a long list of potential partners for all sorts of applications because once we have what we are looking for is basically best practice examples. So you have subject matter champions and then you duplicate scale to help them scale and duplicate and so on. But coming back to Jerry, I think theory you is really the way to go. You know, I'm participating in this webinar from the Institute for Evolutionary Learning and so there are countries from all over the world, Brazil, there's African countries, European countries everybody knows theory you and wants to follow that logic and so I think the process logic of theory you is so compelling, right? Because you go down until everybody gets it, you know here's until you reach this presencing stage but in order to get there you just have to get to several you have to take people through stages of discovery because we all get overwhelmed if our world view changes so fast and a lot of when you deal with climate change and anything related here it challenges your world view. Then when you come down to presencing then you move over into okay, we got it. We have to move forward here. Then you move into crystallizing, you know where do we want to go? What are the desired outcomes? Then you go into prototyping and so this process evolution now is just super helpful because I mean I've been in so many projects where you know I've had people who come in or they just don't get it, you know what we're working on and you can't solve problems with people who don't understand what the problem is, right? So you see that problem identification is another way of saying presencing. What's that? And did you mean the Institute for Evolutionary Leadership? Yeah. Okay, and that's Katya Laszlo and Fyodor Obchinikov. Yeah, Fyodor is leading that particular goal. Okay. They're really interesting. And there's two people named Fyodor Obchinikov and I think they're different people. I can't tell like in my brain I've got a link because I'm a little confused. Because what they're involved in seems pretty different than their pictures are different enough that I think it's two different people. So anyway, side note. So what else should we talk about right now or should we wrap this call because we're sort of at the top of the hour? I think we should keep going for a little bit and let's kind of go over. I've been pruning the agenda and adding and I added one or two things. One of the things that occurs to me is just the charter for this call. It looks like we don't have some participants who I would have expected to show up here. And maybe we don't, maybe collectively OGM doesn't understand what this call is and what it should be about. So let me just say that and then move on to the next thing. Can I just add it to do which is like, I or we need to broadcast to OGM more about what this call is up to, just what you said. Do you want to add that at line 14 or so? Yep, yep. I welcome Phil to OGM. Thanks for working with us. I'd be really interested to hear what Phil thinks of what his role is. And I'm also super interested to start seeing. I'm super interested in starting to see mutual agreements, you know, MOUs basically or handshake agreements and getting those written down and getting them in a in a agreements hub somehow, which I thought would be a fancier thing, but now I think it actually could just be a wiki. But anyway, so I think that's cool. I hadn't even, this one is really important to me. I have a personal need to figure out to have the Thursday call start working on its, at least its gender balance and diversity in general. So Bentley made a strong, Bentley made a strong offer. He said, I pledged 100 bucks to hire a DEI coach. I think that's, and I tried hard to put some energy behind that, helping getting the thread started on opening OGM. The thread has been super generative, I think, and it's also been super narrow. There are only a few people participating. I think, I feel like it's super important for OGM to jump into this with both feet. And then personally, I'm not sure how much I can attend the Thursday calls if we don't start working on this better. We wanted to revisit last week's conversation about girls and circles. Yeah, sorry before you move on. Can we talk about that for a bit? Sure. Thanks. A couple of things. I think this is a hugely urgent issue as well. I tried hard at the beginning. So I tried hard at the beginning to make sure that everybody was bringing somebody not like them into the conversations. That didn't work. The place I didn't try hard, and this is just a failing on my part, is actually having conversations with diverse people and inviting them in. And doing that like lather rinse repeat, lather rinse repeat. And had I done more of that early, probably our balance right now would be very different. I don't know what a DEI consultant is going to tell us or know from the outside or be able to sort of drop on us. It's going to change that dynamic other than us sitting down and actually approaching other groups that are far more diverse than us and being of service to them. Like I think I know what you're going to do. Well, Bentley made a good, we had a couple of those kinds of so great, you airdrop somebody in and so the work is still there, right? And they can't magically wave a magic wand. And so consultants seem like the wrong thing. Right. He recast that in OGM calls actually, and I just found it again today and pulled it over. I must have missed that, okay? He said, I'm not thinking of airdropping in a consultant. What I'm thinking is if we had a coach standing by our side and then having us, you know, doing the hard work, you know, and so when he said that, it actually kind of unlocked for me. It's like, oh, okay, I get what you're trying, what, where are you going for Bentley? And I missed that. So I didn't, that sounds really useful and interesting. And that sounds like an ongoing role, not a one-time person. Yeah. And yeah. Another thing for me is the comment that rings in my head every time we start talking about this is Kevin Jones, actually, and I think last time I looked for this, I couldn't find it in Metamos. Maybe I'll try again. But he basically said, if you want, if you want certain people in the room, talk about things that are important to them, basically, you know? So, you know, if things that are important to women or things that are important to people of color or, you know, whatever, right? So work on their, work on their problems in your room. And then, you know, it's like, oh, you guys are talking about stuff I care about rather than, you know, whatever you talk about. So I think it's important. An important first step would be to clearly outline exactly what people are getting involved in. Like this is what the OGM is. These are our buckets. I know, Johnny, you were talking about kind of the different areas you want to focus on, but clearly defining like these are the, these are the areas we want to focus on. This is what our conversations will focus on. Maybe have rotating focuses for that Thursday meeting. I do think if we had a clearly defined kind of, this is what you're getting by joining our conversations or these are the types of conversations that we're joining, it would be much easier to engage. Like I'm a member of Future Space, which is an organizational futurist and it's, it's very diverse. It's very non-western centric and I feel like that's a community that would love to be engaged with OGM, but how we present ourselves is kind of crucial to that. Sorry, just to kind of echo what you're saying. Yeah, I totally agree with what you just said. I just want to.