 But who wants to take the floor? So maybe we will turn around in that sense, please. Yeah Thank you, miss. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There's a school of growing criticism of unconventional monetary policies and Personally, I'm agnostic because I feel like I like all the tools to really make a determination For or against it, but do you have a view on it? And then are you concerned by the other part of the criticism? Criticism, which is that there's basically too much debt overall you know between government, sovereign states and and private players We'll take a number of questions, of course, and then the speakers will respond. Thank you very much indeed Thank you and So I thought this conversation was quite interesting in what you did not say or what was hidden in the conversation I think I would not step in the inflation conversation I think it's an important one, but I think that even more important things behind inflation has been said by many. I Think we are feeling the compounding impact or the compounding effects of traditional crises and we react with traditional tools and traditional reactions With on top of that is geopolitical shift that we are considering which basically makes these things a little bit more complex and 15 years ago when it was basically the Europe and the US discussing the future of finance now It's a little bit more complex plus a required transition with climate So that's a lot to swallow and I don't think we've agreed on what is a policy mix nationally and internationally to address these compounding effects and what is a social contract We want to discuss with people and these are very striking questions that we have ahead of us Which are not just for the financial people to address, but I think it should be part of their of their thinking And as part of this to echo what what you just said I think we are moving also and it's been said by by several from a period where leverage was a name of the game And it was pretty easy. I mean you could borrow at zero. It was very easy to buy real estate It was very easy to do M&A. It was very easy to value Tesla at whatever price And now we are moving to a balance sheet stress where there is nowhere to hide because it's very Unlikely that the central banks will step in the ways they stepped in in the past So this is a complete change of the game and I don't think we've started to really think what it means going forward My third question is it's related to the real economy Are we going to finally allocate capital properly meaning do we have the risk pricing and I'm turning to Andre Do we have the risk pricing mechanism that will properly allocate capital and properly price the risk and Stop wasting money where it's not needed Coming back to my point on on the transition, etc I think at the moment where there are more investments needed than ever and when there is Capital is probably not scarce, but it's risk adverse So people will rush to buy us treasury instead of investing in things that are really necessary for the world and necessary to Repair the social fabric that is that is that Pierre mentioned some of the point that John made So I think this question is central to me Are we heading in the right direction or it's just a blip and we will face inflation and not address the core issue Which is are we allocating our scarce resources where they are needed for the next 20 or 30 years? I don't have the answer and finally now of course because it's me I'm a little nervous with all the discussions on ESG So the focus on environmental social and governance issue now that it's becoming really serious that we realize that it's not just a Nice transition where you will allocate one or two percent of your savings parameter, but it's way deeper People are becoming nervous. So say in the year the economist made this cover page is summer ESG these three letters will not save the world Texas is giving a green credit to be in paper about black rock and say we don't want to work with you because you're too green and then California say we don't want to work to you because with you because you are not green enough so Is it serious or is it another joke? Another tool of the financial industry to fool the people. I don't know but there is growing doubt So again, not totally linked, but I wanted to share this for messages. Thank you very much indeed I'm not sure frankly speaking that we ever had a nice period where you were tranquill and Everybody was tranquill and the central bank were tranquill. I have known permanent crisis permanent period of crisis and the worst recent crisis was the So-called very calm and tranquill and great moderation world Which ended with the worst crisis ever since World War two which could have been the worst since World War one So so we we are permanently in a dangerous world I never say to kill Jean-Claude. I I agree that never say tranquill I agree that the accumulation of threats Are there and particularly demanding and on top of that with the geopolitical element that you mentioned and we did not mention too much because We we all agree that it is a common factor I guess what what you said on ESG is very important and I expect that we will all respond to that Thank you very much madame. You have the floor Merci monsieur Trichet. I have a question about inflation emerging markets like Turkey and Egypt There is a trade-off. I mean you don't need to be an economist that higher, you know to curb inflation You need to raise interest rate But poor people I mean interest rate low interest rate is basically a subsidy for everyone Especially the poor because the poor live on credit So how can we in for example and in Turkey or Egypt? How can we hike when we fight inflation? Without without really creating because if you want to raise interest rate that will mainly affect the poor who live on credit So how can you fight inflation? Without creating creating unrest in this country. Thank you Good question for all of us. Thank you very much. You have the floor madame Thank you. Thank you Jean-Claude I I will echo My friend John Lipsky's remark about the common framework and importance of saving it for sovereign debt restructurings that are coming and they're looming You know by an estimate Between 35 and 60 countries will be in the emerging markets Middle-income and low-income countries will be in financial distress in the next two years So, you know the the common framework was introduced in 2020 in November only three countries have applied and it seems to be A logjam at the moment with some very very small steps Progress and one could say the problem seems to be China, but nobody knows the reasons, you know Possible explanations Of course on the China side that the Chinese lenders don't want to crystallize losses, which is understandable their balance sheets Already under pressure from the real estate collapse and other difficulties There is a lack of coordination among the various institutions in China that have done the lending and They're simply inexperienced and sovereign debt Workouts and they're afraid that the Western Lenders will take advantage of them And the the fifth reason could be that you know that issues are part of a broader geopolitical situations, you know China might see no reason to cooperate on debt until their Could extract some concessions elsewhere, but in truth nobody knows, you know It's it's complicated as John mentioned, you know, now China is rising well has reason as as the third major lender group in the sovereign debt workouts in addition to Paris Club members and private creditors so but You know common framework Progress remains obstructed is it this destined to fail? I think not an enormous amount of political capital has been invested by official creditor and now Other stakeholders in the common framework They will not easily let it fail I hope not but how to break that logjam So what is needed? I believe is the credible way of assuring each creditor group including non-paris club Bilateral creditors such as China India and other not non-paris Club Creditors that once a restructuring agreement is reached with them No other creditor group can later extract from the data country more favorable To the creditor Treatment so the best idea so far that I've been reviewing is getting traction Among our participants in Washington is a proposal to use the most favorite creditor clause to Deflate any expectations China or others might have by holding you out Or holding hostage the process and that would be able to extract better deals better deal ones deal with Others as made so it will have to be a cross creditor group most favored nation clause compared to vulnerability Treatment as a Paris Club Principle which is a variation of most favorite creditor clause and it will have some you know It will need to have some courage from from data countries To propose it because that will be a unilateral Proposal and others hopefully will will join but it seems to be a better than that the current logjam and So I want to also think hurry Sun Because I was you were sitting next to him on Three years ago in in Marrakesh, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Do you have a precise questions? Yes, or John in particular perhaps exactly because you know Well, I'm actually continuing with John. Maybe I'm answering a question with John that whether it will you know The common framework will fail. I think you know, it shouldn't fail. It won't fail Well, you know, it won't be let fail, but there has to be a solution So and and you know saying that China, you know, I wonder whether John agrees Whether China is the problem or it is the multi, you know multilateral issue. Thank you Thank you very much indeed I think you you have a very very important point, of course We have a real problem with China to my knowledge and mainly with China even if there are other Creditors potential creditors that are at stake, of course. Thank you very very much for this important question. Please Thank you. Well, I have a quick question to the panel about the future of the dollar as a reserve currency I think last year we had had quite a few discussions on the fact on the role of the dollar as a vehicle for the U.S. to enforce the extraterritoriality of their sanctions and What we've just read is that the recent trip of Xixin Ming to the Gulf Ended in deals which are going to be labeled in U.N.'s or whatever you call it or revenue bees And so I'd like to know how the panel views the future of of the dollar as a reserve currency Very important question, of course. Thank you very much indeed Who wants to take the floor, please sir? Yeah, I just wanted to build on what you said Mr. Jacquet on the question around a Supply chain driven inflation. I think when we look at inflation today, it's driven by I think four major supply chains energy agri foods metals and semiconductors and So the question is do central banks really have all the tools? To tackle this supply chain disruption Thank you very much. Please. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman I Have a reason I want one remark I'm an entrepreneur and I talk also with quite a few under other entrepreneurs And I'm also on the board of some manufacturing companies middle-sized But but quite size ever manufacturing companies and I think we have another factor It's I wouldn't call it supply chain shock, but it is the lack of skilled staff and I think this is a this is a major problem and This is exacerbated by the fact that we have to do a lot increasing administrative work through a very high level of regulations and reporting on that and It does constantly things added for instance in Germany. They are now two very heavy things added This is this control of the supply chains the ethical and it's a control of the supply chains where there's a reporting and Sustainability reporting it doesn't mean that I think it should be misused, but but it is a lot of Additional work coming in and I think that Wage price spiral is already rolling. I know in all the companies where I'm involved There will be considerable Rises in payment 67% and this one in certain countries like for instance in Austria We give not necessarily that we say we have a less percentage rise, but they get a one-time payment to To balance out which which comes to the same and in Germany there was reason I think last week there was a conclusion of the largest trade union Metal and electric union where they decided on a very high Price increase what wage increase? Thank you. Thank you very much indeed I know on pass on that it is not exactly the same to augment the regular wages and salaries because it's recurrent and To give a premium which is not recurrent and of course would be a good way to avoid this wage price Spelling but thank you very very much indeed Bruno. You have the floor Thank you. I would like to have your view on the future of the of the debt Accumulated to To face the COVID crisis. I heard John mentioned the service of the debt is manageable But the ratio of debt to GDP is still very high and do you think we can Look at that with benign neglect Because it's on the balance sheet of the central banks and it's a sort of helicopter money Or do you think it's really sure for a financial risk and in that respect inflation? The view is sometime that inflation can be useful to to reduce the debt How do you react to that? Thank you very much Bruno indeed I think that we know we can I pick up the last questions from the audience and then we turn to the speakers please Thank you, Mr. President. I'd like to circle back to developing economies in a way I mean twin deficit crisis are looming large with very tight fiscal space, especially given that Expenditures will be needed for climate change adaptation and mitigations and at the same time my question mostly to to Mr. Ikui actually do you think that Private banks and state-owned banks in developing countries are capitalized enough to weather the shock. I mean in the case of Credit default from a state given that standalone banks are mostly holders of a public bond There is a high risk in a way in developing economies That some major systemic banks will fail as well speaking for countries like Morocco or Tunisia that I know pretty well And that have very tight buffers and that haven't necessarily followed the governance and capital regulations Recommendations that have been done after the global financial crisis So do you think that the banks are capitalized enough and what can we do to avoid a further crisis on that? Thank you very much I have a last questions there. Thank you. I actually more of a Throwing into the discussion a little dimension that wasn't mentioned and you are in the Arab world So I would like to throw in the general Arab outlook on growth and inflation. So I'll just be very brief The growth rate of the Arab economies is expected to rise in 2022 to record about five and a half five point four percent compared to three point five percent in 2021 Driven by many factors most important of which are the relative improvement in global demand levels The high growth rates of the oil and gas sectors and the adoption of stimulus packages to support economic recovery By many Arab governments in line with global development The general level of prices in Arab countries is expected to rise During 2021 it is expected that during 2022 Sorry, the inflation rate in the Arab countries will reach about seven point six percent And it's expected to reach about seven point one percent in the year 2023 and I'll conclude with this although some Arab countries are directly affected by the current challenges as they are Major importers of food commodities most Arab countries can play a major role in reducing the global and Arab food gap and Achieve self self-sufficiency in some commodities such as wheat and petroleum products my questions to the to the panel here or to the gentleman here What kind of Structural reforms are needed actually to relieve supply constraints and boost productivity and economic capacity In order to alleviate the global food crisis, what kind of policy action is required? That can help out in that dimension. Thank you very much. Thank you very very much indeed Dear colleagues, I have a tendency to consider that there's me there has been so many questions I counted 11 and I'm sure that there were 12 so Each of us can pick up what he would like to Command it seems to me as concisely as possible because then I think that the best to terminate our Our exchange of views is to make a new to the table and I would if you agree I would turn first to sales and Then to Jeff and then to a quinary and so forth But I ask you to be very very concise but to pick up really the questions that seems to be Exactly in line with what you you the message you want to give please Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, there's there's one question that I'd like to answer to it's naturally Related to the question of the capital if you remember 2008 the lesson learned Back in the days were to my to my view We had to lesson learned the first one was the need of a tighter regulation The need of a capital increase to increase the buffer and you remember back in the days The crisis we were in and you were at the command was that the crisis was world-wide and global And it was kind of the end of the word you remember that right and I think the two lessons were one first question of the tighter regulation capital increase for the financial industry and More specifically for the banks and we've been through you know capital increase in all the different banks The second lesson learned was the question of the SDR remember it came back on the table, right? So what I think is there's a there's a kind of There's a kind of Symmetry here where we have the same discussions where I think the the western banks are well Capitalized even though there's still the question of the capital increase on the table today as we speak And the second thing as you well aware the question of the SDR And the allocation of the SDR the the current allocation that has been done that has been made has been Of No use for the Western countries of no use at all and the debate today is how can we reallocate this to those who basically needs? Fundamentally need these SDR so for me there's a there's a symmetry here between the crisis we faced back in the days and the the the the crisis we are currently facing with the two With the two lesson learned of earlier mention. Thank you chairman Thank you very very much indeed as regard the SDR when we learn that Not a single SDR has been reallocated De facto. It's absolutely terrible. Jeff you have the floor I there's so many questions. I will try to focus on well one Short one and then then another that I think Gets to some of some of the questions that are raised by no means all first on the dollar reserve currency I think my view is or what I should say is the consensus of experts, which is my view but in fact the my view is that the the dollar is going to be the principal reserve currency for the foreseeable future for One obvious reason which is that there's no obvious for there's no clear replacement the the euro is widely used as a reserve currency but it's probably not going to increase much given it the its troubled path and The the renminbi really is not an international currency in any way shape or form and it's far from having the Chinese financial markets and Chinese Monetary conditions are far from being appropriate for it being adopted by the private sector as a reserve currencies at this point it's used primarily by central banks That have a connection one way or the other geopolitically or economically with with with China So I don't see you can't beat something with nothing as we Sometimes say and I don't see an obvious alternative to the dollar out there dollars likely to remain the principal reserve currency for the foreseeable future that's foreseeable future means I don't know maybe the next 10 15 years. I want but the main thing I was going to say is about The core issue that some have addressed and that I started with we could argue for the next many hours about the underlying causes of the current inflation and the appropriate response But the reality is the really existing Economic policy trend is a strong anti-inflationary policy in the OECD And so so we can debate whether that's the right policy the wrong policy. That's the policy that's being adopted There's a very little question that's going to continue to be adopted and there's very little doubt about what its impact is going to be We're going to face a period of relatively high Interest rates and a quite a strong dollar There may be some fluctuations and I understand the importance of the volatility But I think what we should focus on is the impact of the truly existing anti-inflationary policy Which is our high interest rate environment which will bust a lot of bubbles and a strong dollar That will lead to I think Series of crises in the emerging markets those whose debts are Nominated in dollars and for the for even those that are not nominated in dollars because the local currency debt interest rates are going to be rising Substantially that's going to create debt servicing problems Despite what John says I think you know the debt service has been easy now in low interest environment The environment is changing dramatically and so I think the problems are going to surface They are not going to affect the US directly But the constraints on fiscal policy and you'll get you can you can jump in if you want but the constraints on fiscal policy are real and I think in an environment in which there are very very Substantial fiscal needs like for the energy transition like for softening the blow of some of these inflation of the anti-inflation Policies governments are going to find their hands tied on the fiscal front in a way that will be politically difficult And third there will be distributional effects of these anti-inflationary policies and these distributional effects We've seen them already Inflation is not across the board. Otherwise we wouldn't worry about it inflation is about relative price changes So relative price changes in relative wage or income changes Will affect very substantial groups of the population that and there will be a political backlash What form it takes? I don't know whether it will be left-wing populism or right-wing populism or non-populism But there will be a political backlash so I think To me there are lots of very important issues that people have raised But there are clear implications of the anti-inflationary policy that the major central banks are going to be pursuing they have to do with imposing real pressure on the emerging markets on raising some real questions about the fiscal constraints on exist on OECD governments and Distributional factors that will lead to a political backlash and those I think there are the issues that we will face over the coming years Thank you. Thank you very very much indeed Jeff. Akinayan Thank you. Let me take up two issues the first one is Dala as reserve currency or the international v-currency I 100% not 100% 90% agree with Jeff freedom because the remaining 10% he said for foreseeable future. He said 10 20 30 years Maybe 50 years They say give him a give him a date or give him a number, but never both at the same time, right? Okay Three years ago I spoke At a plenary session of the international monetary system because it was a time that the BIS published then latest the statistics and Three years past and the BIS published Try so-called try any of exchange market review the survey was conducted April of this year. The result was published rather recently. I have statistics here It's exchange market turnover and the currency composition Total being 200 because it takes two to tangle. Yeah, so US dollar kept continue to capture 88% out of 200 the same as 2019 a Euro 31 from 32 the same 31 32 yen 17 17 Sterling 13 and 13 so as far as major currencies are concerned. I always say that You know There has been no big changes actually over the over many decades One notable Development was Chinese you one renminbi you may call It was 4% out of 220 19 Rows to 7% In April 2022 It was a big increase although from very low point, but at the same time there was Decline 1 percentage point of the shares of Russian ruble and also 1 percentage point decline in Hong Kong dollars and a few other You know emerging market Currencies Mexico and pesos a half percentage point declines something like that. So in other words Remembers rise might be accounted for substitution for Rubble for obvious reasons and also Hong Kong dollar for another obvious reasons. So this is one one thing and and and This is this is one fact. I wanted to Say another point. I wanted to make is about ESG You know from a pure Economics theories point of view Using financing for Greening or whatever purposes were distored Pareto optimum It will be much better to use Common tax and board adjustment To a pre-preserve efficient resources efficient allocation of resources But it will be much more difficult particularly to employ carbon taxes across the board and you know this is Only one example when political decision or you know, right political policies are difficult to employ Politicians ask Financing people to do something This is I'm afraid would This would create another bubble or distortion So populism is Influences many aspects of Financial world whether good or bad. Thank you Thank you very much indeed my figures for the dollar the you who and the other currency is not exactly the same as regards the reserve assets, we had at the beginning of the euro 70 percent for the dollar 20 percent for the euro and The number three was the yen and we had a reserve asset of 5 percent Approximately for the yen then the dollar came down over 20 years from 70 to 60 percent the euro remain at 20 and the yen was also unchanged and and The 10 percent that the dollar had lost where in the sterling in the renminbi in the Canadian dollar in the Australian dollar so there has been some kind of redistribution but it's clear I have to say that on pass on if there was the political decision to create a European federation overnight everything changes because the death and and the liquidity of the of the treasury market of The euro would totally be equivalent to the US. So we we we are changing the universe It's not very likely that we will have a political federation soon. So Come you can work. You have the floor. I Have a two comment about the dollar As a reserve currency, I agree with the both of the two previous speakers But I just want to mention that the more we begin to see Dollar as a used as a financial weapon through the swift Yeah, I think it there will be more incentive to find a way to go around it I don't know when all those incentives got To reach a significant Threat in the foreseeable future probably not but I'm just want to point out. They're just strong incentive Don't we use these weapons? That there will be incentive to to go around it the second point which is not so much an answer But I just want to raise it is that Because it's a dollar just so strong and reserve currency and most of the advanced countries have a standing sub agreement But whenever the market becomes very much turbulent for many countries without all this Privilege of a convertible currency it would be much better for the stability of the global financial market that there's a reasonable expectation that when this Fed will come With some selectively of course, but the sub arrangement to support the system We as I said, we have two cases, but we still don't know when it is will be mobilized and That creates a more uncertainty for most of the non-competible currency countries. So I just want to mention it. Thank you Thank you very very very much. I hope one of us will respond to the question on ESG and And the I would say drama that is that is associated with this Deviation perhaps that the finance Global finance is organizing to take advantage of fake ESG, but that's another story. I turn now to Pierre Thank you Let me go back to Bertrand's remark on the allocation of Capital and said When are we going to talk about the ways to allocate capital properly? I see three Responses to that one is taxes and What I have in mind is a carbon tax obviously and I think that We need to restore the Dynamics that would lead to the adoption of a significant carbon tax if want to be Consistent with the Talk about transition energy transition a climate transition and by the way We have been talking about the green transition around this table But a little bit marginally because at the same time we are talking about growth and growth is growth of GDP and GDP is not Very helpful indicator of transition of green transition So we do have a problem of metrics and that would be my second my second approach to it Which is we urgently need a matrix to guide the transition because we are in a bizarre world in which in one sentence We mentioned green transition and the other sentence we call for faster GDP growth and the two are right now a bit Inconsistent and the third and that's where I'm still going to be a bit provocative With some some qualification Is in fact budget deficits because what has been done during the COVID period is to Direct private savings who which would have been poorly used and allocated Through the government who presumably did a better allocation job that's debatable But if the if the private capital is poorly allocated Then there may be governmental solutions. So that's a way to restore the the meaning of public deficit now I would Again mention what Jeff rightly said we are in a situation in which we have overgrown budget deficits So the margin of maneuver is very very tight Whatever we think about budget deficit So but just to mention that we should see the allocation of savings as a global With a global approach rather than always separating public and private because in the end this is a bit artificial All right What counts is the allocation of capital in the economy and we need we know that the green transition requires a lot of investments Let me stop there. Thank you Thank you very much indeed Pierre Andre I Guess that you might have Some message to respond to some of the question no on ESG yeah on ESG where we we have a work in progress in trying to measure to quantify You know more scientifically if you wish some of the elements of ESG and to build a database of You know control numbers which would make it significant But because of the time being I fear a backlash on ESG. There's huge amounts of money Which is invested on the basis of? Implied ESG or you know published ESG With usually very very little substance So the real point I wanted to make which is the same question in a different way The pricing of risk is extremely difficult when you talk about climate Because the externalities are huge both positive and negative externalities And they are you know, and you know, we know very well that pricing externalities is not very easy You know it they requires regulation government information and so on when you talk about long-term investments It even worse, you know, we heard that this afternoon the time it takes to to create new minds You know to to to change processes in industry huge amounts of money long-time frame and huge externalities so plus the fact that Banks have to pay a higher price for risk than non banks So there will be a shift also of the final funding outside of the banks So we are facing a very very difficult situation in which I don't see how we can avoid government intervention, you know Carbon tax is one way to simplify part of the problem It's unlikely that it will happen on a global basis In other words to go back to what Pierre said We Externalities means in some ways government international which mean in some ways deficits So we're not out of the woods. I will have suggested maybe rules regulations a global rules global recommendations we have created a year ago a new board which is the international sustainable standard board SSB which is has very ambitious has already hubs in Asia Tokyo and Beijing Herbs in Europe with headquarters in Frankfurt base also in London base in in In Montreal, I mean, they are very ambitious Every every country's on board China is on board and so I I Don't I don't know whether The specialists are expecting something from this new board, but the international community is betting on this new board and They have practically completed their The members the membership. So I don't want to elaborate too much on that I was a little bit involved in the in the creation the setting up of that new board anyway More deficit seems to me absolutely Abherent so everything has to be financed through savings saving savings in a country, which we know very well and re and I Who is spending around 10% more than equivalent countries in public spending? They are certainly Savings to to make and we could perhaps Reallocate massively, but that's another story now John a lot of questions for you Okay, just one one comment on what you just said and that that strikes me it for a long time the I remember vividly at the April 2009 G20 summit at the Ministerial meeting of the G20 the question was raised should the finance ministers take up the issue of climate finance and Without naming names there were some strong voices saying absolutely not No expertise this belongs in the in the UN triple C. This is not for us So what you had for a period of time was the formulation of goals that with with no Consideration of the sources of financing and it strikes me that what what's happening now finally is These we're starting to get this to push this together and get some realism about what can be done Okay, the the points that I wanted to make a First for sure the outlook for inflation and how difficult it will be to restore Low inflation is absolutely critical and my point was we went through a decade in which we had lower than Expected inflation and even today. We don't really have an explanation of why that happened So we can't be sure because what we're doing now is saying if we look to the past when we tried to get inflation Down before it took this this and this and if that happened then We just can't be can't be sure But for sure if it is difficult to get inflation down There will be some consequences and one of the consequences is as I started out for the advanced economies They have gotten away with this big increase in debt because interest rates and debt service have been so low And if that if they're unsuccessful, we're going to have a big problem now. I should have been I should have been more clear This has not been true for the developing economies or the emerging economies And in fact a decade ago at the at the end of the the global financial crisis debt service burdens or the percentage of Public revenues that we required to cover that public debt service in the event in the developing economies Was about the same as in the advanced economies and today it's multiples of Of of the burden This is why we know that debt debt problems are coming for the developing countries Because if anything it's going to get worse in their interest rates are going to go higher and There for especially the non Non-resource rich developing economies Growth is their incomes going to be lower So something needs to be done. This one is foreseeable What has to happen one we need better standards of debt transparency and that's going to require cooperation by everybody to put Put the numbers on the table if we're going to come to some kind of an agreement on Debt on debt restructuring and debt relief for the developing economies There has to be an understanding on all sides of where we where we start second problem is private sector engagement right now the The standard operating procedure is the public sector makes the decisions turns around to the even if we overcome this issue of debt transparency how the one of the problems of the common framework which is a problem the Paris Club is The public sector gets together and then dictates to the private sector as to what their role is and engage that produces log jams so that we need a better a better form of public a private sector engagement and Better clarity on how do you what is fair burden sharing? Any rate that my point here is we know the problems coming it's going to be broad and big and we need to do better and finally one one ex slightly extraneous remark on the the process of not debt of not of crisis resolution, but crisis prevention and That involved the Fed swaps to the emerging to the large emerging economies that Professor Herb is just talking about I always considered that the feds granting of swap lines to a Small number of large emerging economies as systemically destructive or just at least systemically Disruptive Because the question is right now the the system if there is a system is in the wake of the global financial crisis The major central banks created permanent unlimited swap lines among them. Let's call that those are the guys flying flying first class Now the Fed created business class The favored friends of the Fed that under circumstances that are not not specified in advance The Fed is willing to supply swap lines to countries in amounts and durations that are that are not Not known in advance under criteria. They're not known in advance I couldn't see why that was systemically helpful because the implication is if you're worried about for example Creating stigma about going to e.g. The IMF for help. That's a way to make the stigma even worse If there's going to be crisis prevention in a world of securitized finance You need insurance like swap like facilities. The IMF should be given Swap like facilities that they could offer to all its members and I think that would be helpful Sorry, thank you very much Jean Claude. Yes I would just comment that the emerging countries Which we help to finance from time to time in certain countries are facing today indeed huge difficulties They cannot even finance their budget deficit right now and not only that but they have problems of defense vis-a-vis the Islamist world and they cannot they cannot pay via their armies which is Extremely detrimental today when they have for instance Ivory Coast for ten years Would pay between eight and nine percent interest rates. They cannot afford it, which is a problem now I'm sorry, Jean Claude, but Christine Lagarde Confirms my hardcore figure which is not four point three percent But four point eight percent for the eurozone which is in her speech in Tallinn in November 2nd or 3rd Four point eight percent Co-operation with excuse I reason for I said I don't take the ECB figure I take the statistics figures you're right No, I'm sorry because because I do the same for the US and they are always a way of introducing Alcohol and tobacco and I don't know why I mean you you have this idea that and I understand Why they do that same in the US because they they try to avoid the spiraling the wages and prices spiraling and so the lowest possible would say Co-inflation is better from their standpoint, which I fully agree from their standpoint, but I think that what counts is what are the real figures Which are by the way very different from country to country also to complicate the euro Reading of the situation as you know inflation in front national inflation in France is much lower than in many other countries because of the cost which is paid by the fiscal Interaction the the French are spending a lot of money to alleviate the price of Oil and gas and so forth. So but thank you very much Jean Claude. We will we will check bilaterally And with Christine exactly where we stand. Thank you very much indeed I think that we we came through many problems I note on pass on that this issue of whether for the dollar or for the euro It is wise to have sanctions that are freezing the reserve assets is a real real issue and I was public to be against those sanctions against the central bank of Russia and I still consider it's absurd We have given the rest of the world the signal that to have dollar or euro as reserve assets is a bad idea and We called for many countries that are in the rest of the world are not specially sure that at any time they won't have a problem with the US or with the West or whatever and We told them look be careful. You should put your money in other instruments That that was a big big big mistake and a very bad move my my sentiment my sentiment Second point, which I wanted to to make Clear and again, it's not the dollar. It's the euro also and the European know How the US can be inward-looking we when we were applying by the rule and by the treaty the accord that we had with Iran and the US Congress decided to punish us because we were Implementing what had been decided and signed that was absolutely infuriating all the European I mean there is something there the the dollar in a way is a Public good at the global level and and the New York market is also a public good So to decide that it is the private property of one particular country is is really self-destroying I mentioned that even the European were really infuriated the Commission was trying to invent Bypass of the thing and it didn't work by the way So and my last point would be of course It is okay. Can I remind you that 50 years ago an American Treasury Secretary said it's our currency, but it's your problem Connolly Connolly It's our currency. It's your problem. That's true. That's still true Last point We had a very good discussion on the balance for the central banks between Considering that the price of some commodities and I would say inflation burst is both depressive or recessive and Inflationary and so you have to balance the fact that you have to fight against the Inflationary aspect, but be very careful that it is also recessive and there are difference between the US and Europe. It's more recessive in Europe. So that justify a monetary policy Significantly different obviously and will continue to be significantly different. But in any case There is a point fix an archimedeus archimedean point if I may which is that you must go down In a reasonable time to price stability Otherwise you are in a situation of the Fed in the 70s and beginning of the 80s Then Paul Volcker comes inflation is at 14% and Sustainable in the long run if I may he has to do what is necessary and what is necessary is much more dramatic than being a little bit ahead of the curve and try to regain control in time Because when you have an inflation at 14% your short-term interest rates are at 19 and 20 at certain moment to regain control and you trigger a dramatic recession and a dramatic financial crisis Nothing to to be compared to what we expect will happen taking into account that the central bank are not No, shalom and they are not saying okay. No problem. We don't we don't move because the recessionary impact of what's happening is sufficient to correct the trajectory But if when they do that when they do nothing all these second round effects are materializing and and the situation becomes really very dramatic. So it's a I Understand that there is a balance to be found and it's normal that academia is reflecting permanently and on the impact of course on Social fabric and the political social fabric of what what is being done But but but it's very serious stuff and and I am reassured that both Central banks and all central banks to be frank of the advanced economy had said we have we are trying to incur Expectations 2% in three years time is something which is reasonable and it is what we will try to deliver This is reassuring because and also because it's the same goal Not the same monetary policy not the same situation, but the same goal. I Think that to the audience could applaud perhaps the speakers Thank you