 Yeah, so the question was on what Lauren humorously called it, the victim olympics, painting a scenario where you picture a room full of people who are politically conscious and the highest status in the room goes to the person who is the biggest victim. So it would be the black transgender lesbian disabled person of color or something like that. And the privileged white male in the room, he just better shut up. And so we see here, there's a few things going on. One is an inversion of the normal hierarchy of dominance, which it's a natural pattern to turn the tables and to reenact the patterns that one has been subjected to. In a way that maybe is part of a healing process, but it could also become a trap where nothing really changes except the identity of the people exercising power over the others. As we could see, I mean, there are historical examples of that where a oppressed group becomes a new oppressor. And this is in fact, in radical political theory, this is recognized as a diversion from a real revolution. Paulo Freire called it sub-oppression, where the oppressed groups takes on the methods of the oppressors and implements them on whoever they can. And then so you can guess what will happen if they end up overthrowing the oppressors, they will become a new oppressing class. Certainly what we want in the world is not that the black people, the women, the queer, the transgender, etc., etc. get their turn to dominate everybody else. What we want is a world where everybody is celebrated and able to live out their lives in the most beautiful way that they can. We want a world of justice and fairness and equality. So there's more to it, though. I think that, yeah, so sometimes I've spoken before about totalizing discourses or totalizing lenses that are useful, that illuminate some things. Gender is one of them, for example, or privilege is another one that illuminates some things that maybe can only be seen through that lens. But when it's the only lens that is applied to everything all of the time, then you're going to be missing some information, and blind to some of the harm that you might be causing. Another one of these lenses is the lens of dominance and submission, where you can look at what's going on as a status play. And it's a very powerful analytic tool to understand human relationships. And I find that some of these political groups on college campuses and so forth, you can understand a lot of what's going on in terms of a play of status, dominance and submission. And I don't want to reduce it to that because there are also genuine injustices and historical trauma that needs to be healed. And in fact, anybody who, I think it's a truism that everybody can identify as both a perpetrator and a victim in some way. The movement, the evolution of our human species, I like to think that it is toward a redress of the grievances and a healing of the patterns of trauma, which means that every privileged person or everybody who has some legacy of being the privileged or the perpetrator wants that to change, wants to live in a world where that's no longer going on and feels a responsibility to use whatever privilege he or she has in service of that healing. Sometimes that yearning could be hijacked by a desire for exculpation, a desire to relieve the guilt. So making gestures of submission to the most victimized person in the room can be a way to alleviate the psychological pressure of feeling guilty. But does it actually change anything? Actually, and I've seen, you can see times people walking on egg shells, whatever the person of color says, they uncritically agree with it because if you disagree with that, maybe that shows that you're a racist or something like that and insensitive and so on. And what do I say and what do I do? That kind of tiptoeing around, I don't think really changes anything. What I find, I mean, I interact with, in my work, I interact from time to time with Indigenous people who in these progressive alternative circles have very, very high status. They're the ones who get put on to the stage. I mean, for some of them, it's a real mind trip. You know, I know one woman, she was like, in her lifetime, she's a great grandmother, she's like, I remember when there were signs everywhere saying no dogs or Indians allowed. And now I'm like getting put on the stage and everybody is wanting to walk me to my car and be of service to me. It's like, what happened here? And in a way, to be put on a pedestal, to be treated as if every word you say is automatically a pearl of wisdom just because it comes from a person of your bloodline, that actually is as dehumanizing as to be treated like a dog. You're still not being fully seen for who you are. Orlan Bishop works with an interesting understanding or definition of responsibility. He says, it is the desire to be responsible for what has harmed you. That's what an apology is in its highest expression. It's not saying it was my fault. It's saying, I want to be, I want to respond to what has hurt you. I want to do something about it. If we can avoid the language of blame and fault, which invites us into making it look like we've done our part and actually touch on the human compassion that wants to do something about these conditions, then I think we'll see real healing. To do that, we need to recognize that there is a part of the privileged, the oppressors, the perpetrators, that does not want to be in that role. And if we can make alliance with that part of them, then all of the replication of dominator tactics will become unnecessary. You won't have to tear them down if they can be invited to step down. Now this is a, when it comes to race, gender, and all of the other homophobia, transphobia, et cetera, et cetera, it gets very complicated. And I'm not really somebody who's thought that deeply on it or engaged it in a lot of depth.