 If you're the average person who already struggles with consuming enough protein on a regular basis, and you've decided because of, you know, maybe the mainstream narrative to choose a vegan protein because you think that's a superior or a better choice for the environment or whatever your reasons are, just keep in mind that is inferior in comparison to a like way base product, right? Or an animal protein source, right? So I think that's the most important point to make. Vegan diets are some of the worst diets for building muscle. Fuck. Do you want me to just call you? Oh. Wow, you're coming hot, dude. I know. Okay, so let me tell you where this is. Can't wait for that sound mic to get clipped. Let me tell you where this is coming from. And by the way, we're- Fuck the journey man. Man, when you love the journey, the goals just happen. Yeah, stop it. I do not like journey man anymore. Yeah, okay, so- I'm too tired to fight. I'll tell you where this is coming from, okay? So there was a post on Twitter from really someone who I considered to be one of the smartest people in our space, Brad Schoenfeld. You guys know who that is, right? Yes, I would do. Yeah, very, very smart guys. I was one of the best people in the muscle building space. But he did a post, it was a bit misleading. I don't think he was trying to mislead anybody, but it did come across in a misleading way. And I think people would read it and maybe get the wrong idea. So I'm gonna read what he said, and then I'll read, I'll talk about the study that was in this, that he was referring to. So what he wrote in this was, when matched for total essential amino acid profile, no differences in muscle development or performance measures between plant and animal-based protein supplements. Additional evidence to suggest that animal proteins are inherently more anabolic than plant-based proteins. So- Key word, when matched. Yes, so if you hear that, if you read that, you think, oh, it's the same. But the key here is to see that in the studies, they have to match total essential amino acid profile. How do you do that with vegetables? Right, so what does that mean? That means you have, because plant proteins are lower in the essential amino acid, so for people who aren't familiar, proteins are made up of amino acids. A certain number of amino acids are considered essential. They're essential because your body can't make them. You have to eat them or you'll die. So essential amino acids make up proteins and animal proteins are much higher in essential amino acids than plant proteins. So if you eat enough plant protein to match the essential amino acid intake that you would get from animal protein, then the results are roughly the same. But that's the key. You'd have to eat a lot more. You'd have to eat a lot more plant protein to make the same effect or to get the same effect that you would get from animal protein because animal protein's so much higher in essential amino acids. So if you're eating a vegan diet, if you don't supplement with protein powders, in order to hit that number of protein, which is usually studies will show about 0.6 to maybe 0.8 or 0.9 grams per pound of body weight, which is what maximizes muscle growth and performance. So that's pretty established in studies. In order to get your protein intake to be equivalent to animal protein intake, you'd have to eat a lot. You'd have to eat a lot of plant protein to make up the difference because of the amino acid problems. You're gonna have to look at powdered form because the volume of that and trying to assimilate all of those plants would be really difficult to digest. Yeah, well, people point to things like lagoons, right? Or seeds or nuts. Do you know if you ate 50 grams of protein of beans? Yeah. Like, what is that gonna do to your stomach? Well, try eating 50 grams of protein from beans versus let's say 50 grams of protein from eggs or beef or fish or if you can tolerate dairy, milk or whatever. It's a law and along with that comes a lot of other stuff and it tends to disrupt your digestion. Plus that 50 grams of protein from beans is probably gonna be equivalent to something like 35 grams of protein that you'll find from animal protein because of the essential amino acid. Well, this conversation can sound a little trivial, I think, except for the fact that most people under consume their protein. That's it. So this is where it's not trivial. Yeah, who's eating one gram of protein per pound of body weight average population? Nobody. And I think that's the most important thing to point out in this situation. If you are a hardcore fitness person or the vegan bodybuilder guy that's probably gonna be offended by the way you open this who counts his macros and hits his targets every single day, then this doesn't matter. It's not a big deal. But if you're the average person who already struggles with consuming enough protein on a regular basis and you've decided because of maybe the mainstream narrative to choose a vegan protein because you think that's a superior or a better choice for the environment or whatever your reasons are, just keep in mind that is inferior in comparison to a like way base product, right? Or an animal protein source, right? So I think that's the most important point to make. And in this study, they used a plant protein powder but they used a mix where they combine different plant sources. And this is what you'll have to do to get the essential amino acid numbers up. Matches, yeah. Like for example, we work with a company called Organifi, right? We've been working with them for a long time and they have a plant protein and I use it because I can't tolerate dairy but they don't have, it's not a single source of protein. Yes, not just pea protein. No, they use a lot of different sources which combine, give you a good amino acid profile. When it comes to animal proteins, you don't have to do that. You could just have whey or just have egg or just have beef and you'll get that, right? So that was, I actually commented on that post and we went a little back and forth. They said, look, when we're talking to the average person, I'm always gonna comment on a whole food diet. So yes, if you're a vegan and you supplement with plant protein powders, you can make up the difference for sure. But if you don't take supplements, very difficult, very challenging, you'd have to eat a lot of different types of plant proteins and you'd have to eat a higher protein diet with the plants to equal a lower protein diet that you would get with animal sources. So that's the big reason why. And look, I've experienced this with clients. I've definitely had clients who were better off eating vegan, but that had more to do with, of course, those individual variances that had to do with their own individual body. But more than that, I've had clients who went plant-based who then added some eggs or added some fish and they were like, oh my God, I feel so much better. Yeah, and that's really what we gotta watch out for is the deficiencies and be able to supplement that is almost crucial if you're going in that direction. So it's just something to always consider. And that's the thing about animal sources is a lot of that's already packed in there. So it's something to consider. By the way, do you guys know what the fail rate is with vegan diets? 80 plus percent, I brought this up. Which is, by the way, it's the same fail rate you get with any diet. You know who sticks to a vegan diet? The ones that are doing it for a cause, right? Moral reasons or ethical reasons. It's a belief, which I totally understand and I totally respect. But a lot of people are being either coerced or convinced through propaganda that this is better for them. They don't necessarily, this really isn't a moral thing for them, they don't have this huge ethical push for it. They're just getting this information. Then they go switch to vegan and because it requires more planning because they're not familiar with what I'm talking about because processed foods tend to be plant-based or those more plant-based processed foods, their health worsens. And they don't know why or they ignore their signals because they've been told it's better by mainstream media. It's just totally not. Oh yeah, RGB bundle is the giveaway today. That's MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, MAPS Aesthetic. All three, it's the most popular bundle that we have. You can get it for free, but you gotta do this. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours or drop this episode. Also, go to our new Mind Pump Clips channel, subscribe to that channel and turn on notifications on that channel. Do all those things and if we like your comment we'll notify you that you won the RGB bundle right now. Also, that bundle is on sale. For everyone else, you can still get it at 50% off. It's still going on, okay, crazy sale. We also have an individual MAPS program on sale. MAPS Suspension, it's a suspension trainer program. That's also 50% off. So if you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code July 50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. So I watched something on Netflix the other day that I was wondering if you guys knew, I knew nothing about this person until I saw this little mini docu-series. I forgot the name of the docu-series, but it was about a guy named D.B. Cooper. Oh yeah. Are you both familiar? Are you both D.B. Cooper? You know what I read about? Of course you guys know. Okay, so when I was a kid, there was a, there was a- The elusive D.B. Cooper. There was this book series that I used to get in the library called Unsolved Mysteries and in there was like Bermuda Triangle, Big Foot, Aliens. And one of them was about D.B. Cooper. A whole book dedicated to it. They were like skinny books, right? It was like a whole series of them. And it was about this guy who did this heist and jumped out of a plane and they never found him. Again, he got away with all, nobody knows what happened to him. Out of a commercial plane, which is crazy. Cause I mean, he had to slow the plane down, get him to come below. So tell the whole story because I literally read it when I was a kid and I don't remember all the details. Oh, so you haven't seen them. So there's a Netflix series that's out right now and have you started watching it, Justin? Yeah, I watched about two episodes of it and they recap it pretty nicely. And also there's this whole thought that the cold case detectives that's behind it, like they're pretty sure and certain so far that they got the actual D.B. Cooper. So that's why I'm still engaged. They haven't obviously confirmed it yet. Yeah, I'm far enough along to know that the one you're looking at right now, they fail at, they continue to fail. And I don't think they solve it at all. But it's, I did not know anything. And I was like so blown away by all the references that I had seen before and just never... You think a cultural icon? Yes. So, okay, so he... So he, there's a short plane ride from, it's the one we've been on before too. It's Portland to, not Spokane, is this Spokane? It's one of those. It's like one of those short little rides from Portland to Seattle or something. It's like a 45 minute flight or whatever I thought. And he gets on there and he basically tells the stewardess that he has a bomb on it in his briefcase. And remember, this is 1971, right? So like you could totally... Which was brilliant. I mean, the way that he did all this was like brilliant because he was very calm and brought her over. So it was just her and him having the conversation. Nobody else really heard them. So there was no panic. He did it all in a way where there was no immediate panic. Which is why he's a cultural icon is because nobody got hurt. Nobody got hurt. And he basically robbed the government. Have you seen the picture, the sketch of him that's from back then? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the glasses. Yeah, because he had his sunglasses on the entire time or whatever I thought, right? So where'd he get the money? I don't remember. So he says he's got a bomb and when they land at the airport in 45 minutes, his demand is 200K and four life vests. I mean, four parachutes. So another part of his brilliance that they talk about is that he didn't ask for one parachute. So give him a faulty parachute so he wouldn't be able to jump out of the plane or something like that. Well, that and also it assumes that he's taking on hostages. Exactly. So they assume he's probably taking hostages with him also. So they of course give him 200K which is now valued at like a million dollars today's money with that, right? So they give him his 200K, his four at that and then they take the plane takes off again. When they take off again, they're flying over like a really remote area in Washington, Washington, Nevada. They're not sure exactly where he's at when this happens but he sends the stewardess up front. And now he's the plane's empty. It's him like a stewardess or two and then they like the two pilots. That's all that's on the plane on this flight now. And of course, there are already FBI's alerted. They're following the plane. They're tracking or something like that. Well, he sends the stewardess all the way front. He's sitting calmly in the back and he tells the pilot to drop the, forget the drag or whatever like that on the plane, slow it down to like 200 or something miles an hour. Pilots are like, we can't do that. He's like, yes, you can. It'll fly, trust me. So he knows enough about aviation that they can actually get away and do. And lower the altitude substantially. Lower the altitude, slow the plane down and then tells the stewardess to go up to the front. And when she went to the front, he lowers the staircase out the back and literally walks out, walks out the staircase and then jumps out, out the plane. Never found. Never found. And it was like over like a crazy, huge forest. And they were like search parties, everything coming after them and never will. And now obviously this guy had some survival. So there's all these like speculations that he had to been like special forces or for him to be able to jump out of a plane like that and know that about the speed of the planes and. He just died. He's stuck in a tree, nobody found him. Well, they actually, I mean, they totally, they combed that entire forest and said that there was no way that he is his body. Well, the interesting part too is like later on, like I guess a kid found like part of the money because he asked for it all in like $20 bills, right? And so then like dug up and there was like, I don't know, $6,000 worth that they found. But it's like then later on there was speculation that maybe they came back and planted that there to kind of, you know, throw them off, you know, off trail. And also too, there's like speculation, maybe, you know, because I guess it's like 20 something extra pounds for the amount like 100,000 or whatever amount of cash that he wanted in 20s. Like that would have like weighed him down with his parachute and they're like, maybe he left the majority of it on the plane, you know, and then had somebody on the inside kind of take it or there was all this like interesting, but you start thinking about it because it was so sophisticated how he pulled this off. It was very, very well thought out. He was in a disguise. His hair was dyed black and shiny. Like they said, like one of the people on the plane said that it was obviously he had a lot of makeup on. And so it's like his facial features, like they think were probably different. And so anyways, like that was organized where they even saw flares like at the bottom and that never got investigated. But there was like flare shots. So obviously they're trying to think like, well, somebody marked it and then they all swooped in, picked them up, you know, cause it was very. Or he died. Or he just died. Or he just died. You know, sometimes we're like, we create these stories when, you know, the mystery of its time. Well if he died, the money would have been found. If he would have died, you mean on the jump he died? You know how hard it would be to find someone in some of these places sometimes. I know they say they combed the. Oh, by now though, I mean, it became so popular. I mean, millions of people have. Is it like a treasure hunt looking for? Yes, like people who spent their lives. Like I told Katrina, one of the most fascinating parts of Washington talking to me was like, could you imagine being married to me if I was the guy who was so fascinated with this story that I dedicated 30 years of my life trying to find him? Yeah. Like come on dude. That's like full case guy. Yes. Like come on bro, like seriously. Like, I mean it's, I'm like intrigued by it, but like to dedicate your life to trying to figure this case out. Like come on dude. I think you got into divorce over it. Somebody was searching for his money though. Yeah, that obsessive about his case. And I mean, they put together like this crazy CIA, FBI, retired group of guys. There's like, I don't wanna say like 40 people, they're all like 50 years and above, special forces, CIA, FBI. Well, I don't know man. And you know some of the motivation is to be the guy that caught him, right? Of course. So then you go down history and like your name is associated with. Totally. So it's, again it's, and people that are sleuths or like, you know, detectives or like, that's like the golden goose, right? You can be the guy that caught him. You imagine this guy is like a grandpa now. I was like, it's a big secret. Grandpa, tell us about when you, how you opened up your bar. Oh yeah, I started my bar back in. The coolest story ever. Yeah, but no, he just doesn't tell anybody. It's a secret. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell us on his deathbed. I just, I mean, I had never heard, I don't know how I'd never heard the story if I'm kind of ashamed of myself. I knew you guys would. I remember, I remember distinctly the picture of him on the book that I read. And it's the one where he's one of the dark glasses and it's like a sketch of his face. And they said that because they released that, like that it brought in way too many leads. Like, and so this is why they didn't really get anywhere because it was such a generic white guy businessman, you know, face, it's like everybody's like turning on their neighbor and like reporting them in. It just kind of caused this like false hysteria. Some of these cases are so interesting. Didn't they catch the Zodiac killer? They eventually found out who that was, right? They did, right? I'm pretty sure. Way later. Yeah, way later. I mean, and this was a guy that would tell the police what he was going to do, when he was going to do it, he would send these like, to San Francisco Chronicle, right? He would leak codes to San Francisco Chronicle. Did they find him, Doug, eventually? Yeah, his name was Gary Francis Post. Was he alive when they caught him? Or was this post? I'm not sure. Gary. I think it was after the fact. No, I mean, like after he died. Yeah, that's what I think. I don't think they pieced it together in his life. I don't believe he's, I don't remember him serving time. If I'm pretty sure, I don't know for sure. Let me double check this. I've seen the, I've seen the doc. You know what's weird about that, that whole era that decade, like the 60s and 70s, you don't hear about this anymore, but that was like serial killers were everywhere. Yeah. When's the last serial killer? You guys know that? Well, you know what's crazy? They actually starting to tie it in to MK Ultra. They started talking, what's tripped me out. They started talking about hijacks. Hijacks at that time. Oh, that was a thing. Bro, it was four, four a month. Four a month. Could you imagine, could you imagine today's social media time if like, could you imagine four hijacks happening in a month? Like people, like people will be like madness. Madness. Wasn't there a plane that was hijacked by Iranian terrorists before the Olympics or was that the building? Was it building? It was a building, okay. Was that the 1970s? I don't know, but the fact that, I don't know in the 70s that hijacking became, and he like made it popular and became a thing. Yeah. He ruined airport security, like all this stuff for us to experience now. Cause like before that, it was really cool to fly. Like you would go in and like, it was the experience of it was very casual. Like there's barely. It was high class, bro. There was not even any security. It was less about protecting and security, and it was more about the experience. Entertaining you. Yes. And like making sure that you like enjoyed the experience. Okay, so you guys, okay. So if you look at pictures of the experience of people flying planes in the 70s and 60s and people in trains in the 1930s and 20s, we've gone backwards. Oh yeah. You go on a train now versus what it looked like in the 30s or you go on a plane now. I mean, we won't. It's just a fart tube. It's so different now. Oh yeah, no, totally different. Yeah, it's so different. Yeah, speaking of fart tube, have you guys heard of brown noise? No, but I'm curious. What do you think brown noise is, Justin? Well, I mean, come on, dude. I've heard of like the brown note. Like they've been like messing around like with different frequencies that basically like, I don't know if it's just urban legend or not, but you could hit a brown note and constantly shit their pants. No, that's real. That's not what this is, but that's real. Okay. That's an experimental weapon. That's a real thing. It's an experimental weapon. Oh, I think you actually brought, one of you brought it up. It was like a military thing where they send a noise and makes everybody shit their pants. Yes, you lose control of your bowels. Yes. It's like a anti-riot research, right? So is it really, is it like 100% effective of like, oh, one in every five. It makes people super ill and or you shit your pants. And then there was another one where... Why didn't they pull those out with all these? There was another one. I'm just saving that. There was another one that they fire it into a crowd. They aim it at you. And when you yell or talk, you hear your voice back in your own head like a split second later and it disorients you so much that you don't want to say anything. Yeah, you start talking. They could shut up a crowd by shooting at this at them. Ooh, this could come in handy. Yeah. Who put the dishes in here like... Okay, so tell it, what is brown noise then? What is brown noise? So brown noise, okay, so you know what white noise is? Yeah. So I have a white noise machine for my son. So we play that in his room and that way he doesn't hear us wake up in the morning and helps him sleep and whatever, right? Yeah, I feel like white noise would be like a snap of a saltine cracker. Do you understand the... Do you understand the science behind white noise? That's how it works, Sal? Say what? Do you understand the science of how the white noise actually works? Does it that it mimics the sound in the womb? Is that what it is? I don't know, I'm asking, I don't know the answer to that but so I had like this little hack that I figured out and I think I shared it on the podcast years ago but I used it again because it was 4th of July I had my aunt and uncle over and they had their little dog and they went over and it was 4th of July, fireworks going off like crazy. And I said, and they're like, yeah, you know, he's gonna go crazy, I don't know what we're gonna do. And I said, oh well, we could throw some white noise in there like I do for my dogs. And they're like, white noise. I'm like, oh yeah, like, I figured this out 4th of July, quite a few 4th of July. It's polka music. Yeah, it is white noise. And so I set them up and they were like blown away. They're like, oh my God, he hasn't barked at all. Because they can't decipher between them. Yeah, so it does, like, yes, I think it somehow blocks it. Like if you, so if the fireworks are happening outside and as long as I can make the white noise between the They're not able to like, maybe it doesn't disrupt them as much or Yeah, I mean, they didn't single peep out of them. Well, so brown noise is a much lower frequency and it helps, they're finding in studies. It helps people with autism, ADHD, other neurodivergent, you know, conditions where people feel calm, like they'll play it and people will say, oh my God, I feel so calm and focused when the sound I wonder if the brain FM is using that. I guarantee. So Doug, so Doug just pulled up white noise since white noise contains all frequencies at equal intensity, it can mask loud sounds that stimulate your brain with magical for dogs. Oh, wait, look at this pink noise versus brown noise, black noise. Hold on, what's pink noise? Pink noise? What the hell's pink noise? What is pink noise? Thank you, Justin, for that. Wow, wow. So the color of noise is determined by the energy of the sound signal. Specifically, it depends on how energy is distributed over various frequencies or the speed of sound. Okay, so what is pink noise? Nature is full of pink noise, including rustling leaves, steady rain, wind, and heartbeats. So obviously, so brain FM is using all these. They have to. Now, what does it say about brown noise there, Doug? So I was reading about how people with ADHD, I was reading about neurodivergence because obviously you guys know I have ADD. And so they were saying how this helps people focus. So they'll play this in the background and they'll feel kind of calm and stuff. What does it say about brown? Okay, so brown noise, also called red noise, has higher energy at lower frequencies. This makes it deeper than pink and white noise. Examples of brown noise include low roaring, strong waterfalls, and thunder. I love thunder. Not real thunder, though. Pretend thunder. Oh, real thunder. I don't like real thunder. I can't sleep with real thunder. What's black noise? Is there black noise, too? Yes, there is. So black noise is an informal term used to describe lack of noise. It refers to complete silence or mostly silence with bits of random noise. Oh, okay. Have you guys, did you guys know that there's a room? It's the most soundproof room in the world, apparently. They've designed it. Want to make it go crazy, isn't it? That's what they said. Maybe you could look it up, Doug. I think the longest, there's a record for the longest someone's ever been in there. It's not very long. It's like a few minutes. Because it's so silent in there, you hear the blood pumping through your veins. So you can hear your own internal, and it literally drives people crazy. Where is it? Is it way underground? No, I think it's... And how far off is a float tank from that? It's like a float tank you get that room. No, not like this. This is so... Well, that takes care of your other senses, right? Yeah. You feel like you're suspended, but then taking all the noise out on top of that. Is that it? That's not it. Look up, Doug, the most soundproof room in the world. It says the quietest room on Earth. Oh, wow, okay. What does it say? It's the Anne Nickoic Chamber of Orfield Laboratories in Minnesota. The space is so quiet that the longest anybody has been able to bear it was 45 minutes. How bad? I would love to go in there. I do. Just to see what it's like. Me too. I'm kind of curious. Cause it doesn't look... If you're just looking at it. I thought it was like some... Does it mess with you because if I were to like, if you were to speak, you would not hear your voice cause your voice wouldn't bounce off the wall and give you feedback or something. It would just die. Or you just hear too much of yourself. I think that's something like what Justin said. So the quieter room, the more things you hear. Your ears start to adapt to the quietness. You'll hear your heart beating. Sometimes you'll hear your lungs and hear your stomach gurgling loudly. Dude, the stomach gurgles the worst. Just talking to you. Hey, that's a good... I want one of those rooms for my kids act up. Hey. You know what I mean? Five minutes of the quiet room. You gotta go to the quiet room. Why we're on all this crazy stuff? Did you guys see that? What Audi does in their new cars, the new technologies they have with red lights? This is cool. This is... And Doug, maybe you could pull this up. Andrew, have you seen this yet on red lights? Okay, this is cool. So, and I don't know why Audi has access to this but their new cars now have the timing of all the red, all the lights signals and will tell you when your light's about to turn green. What's even cooler than that, they took it a step further that let's say how you put in your like... Power. Your Waze app and you say where you're going. It will tell you the speed to keep to hit all green lights. Oh my God, that's sick. Is that sick or what? A dad invented that. Exactly, dude. That was a dad. And you're not gonna tell your kids that you know this, right? Yeah. I've always done this to try and time I look over to the left at like the light that's like just turned red. And I just give them the old Jedi mind trick. Oh, yeah, they're like, wow. Yeah, I got away with that for a long time with my kids. For a long time, like, buh-bye, change the light. Like, I don't feel like it. Nah, all right, fine. So there used to be an old trick that you could do that. I haven't tried it in a long time. Sweet flick of your lights. Yes. Is that a myth? So I thought that too. Yeah, because that's worked like maybe one out of 20 times for me. So the story is that emergency personnel have a flickering light. They shine and it triggers the light to change. Yeah. Is that true? I've heard that. I don't know if it's true or not. It might be one of those like 90s. Yeah, it worked back then. All of us that, dude. We all heard that. Is it an urban legend or is it true, Doug? I'm going to look it up. I did that all the time as a kid. I'd roll up and I'd flip, flip, flip, flip, flip. And then, you know. Yeah. It's like, maybe I'm not getting the timing of it or something. It might be like the blowing in the Nintendo cartridge. Everybody just thought it was real. That worked. I don't care what anybody did. They did a study on it. That's really, they did a study. They swore to God. What about him? This is why some studies are faulty, bro. I don't believe that still. Hold on. Oh. The United States police ambulance have access to some special spotlight, stoplights. The strobe lights when triggered can change the lights to green. Yes. Thereby allowing mercy for this. It is true. There's probably none of them around here, though. Yeah, they've probably changed them out. Wow, that's a real thing, though. That's crazy. So it used to work. So there was a light in my hometown that it used to work on. And that's why, and like, that's where I- You lived in the cuts. Yeah, yeah. No, it was one light. Yeah. You didn't even have to stop. There's three. There's no cars in the field. Keep going. Did you guys do that? Because you were in such a remote area that you didn't even listen to a student read. Yeah, you run a lot of lights. And you run a lot of step signs, for sure, too. But I've been busted for that, too. Did you really? Yeah, of course. Because you think you assume that there's no cop. And then you just have happened to roll it when there's a cop there. So I got to take it once for doing a burnout. I just decided to be cool, because I had a couple of girls in my car. So I'm like, chick this up. I got pulled over. And the cops threw me down. They put me on the hood. Oh, my god. You cuffed me? Yes. I think they were trying to teach me. I mean, I was an adult. I looked back. So I got the stab to me. So I did a burnout in a residential area. And the car in front of me was a suburban. And it was an undercover. And he threw a siren on top of his roof. Right in front of you? Yeah. And then came out and fucking yell against you. He made some brown noise after that. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. I was like, what are the chances the car in front of me is an undercover like that, dude? And then, yeah. But he didn't do it. I mean, I don't think technically he can do anything. And he wasn't on duty. He was totally dressed in like. He just wanted to scare. Yeah, he did. And I was like a 16-year-old kid. You know what I'm saying? He came over and tried to threaten me and say I could lose my license. I think they were trying to scare me, because he pulled up. It worked. I did the burnout. I saw the lights. And I'm like, oh, fuck. And then he pulls up. He gets out of his car and I'm in my car. And he goes, do you know why I pulled you over? And I played stupid, because I didn't see him before. And I'm like, he must have heard me and he's guessing. So I'm like, no. Get out of the fucking car. And that was it. And his switch went off. And he gets me out, cuffs me. And I remember being like, god damn, bro. This is a little excessive. I just did a burnout. I calmed down. When we were giving a whole speech about why I shouldn't do it, why it's so dangerous or whatever. When we were in high school, we got like three cop cars, pulled us over, took us all out, put us against the car. And so supposedly, it was like a Friday night, we were driving in my buddy's suburban and his dad had a custom license plate that said Ben to the top, but was shorter, shortened because you can't say Ben to the top. So it was like, B-E-N-T-T-P or something like that, right? And the cops pulled us over and they thought for sure we were these people that were like T-Ping houses and harassing people all weekend because they got all these calls. Oh, because it said T-P. Yeah, because it said Ben T-P. And that was like their way. Like that's so much your thing. You get a customized license plate. We got jackets. They literally thought that. We're the T-P gang. They literally thought that. It's literally what they thought. You're going to tell me you guys are the kids doing that. Your license plate says Ben T-P. And my buddy's like, that means Ben to the top. My dad's a big rock climber. We love T-P's so much. Who's the T-Pish gang? Then we get a license plate that says it. The dumbest criminals of all time. It's like a Reno 911 fucking episode. Great detective work. Yeah. Got us. Must be that guy right there. Show us the toilet paper. Guy in the back looking at his shoe. He was, it was a Reno 911 drive-by episode. 100% felt like that. Hey, speaking of dad, so I got to tell you guys about my dad, right? So you guys know how he uses Ned, right? He uses Ned because it helps him with his inflammation and his joints. He feels better when he takes it. Well, anyway, I gave him the capsules. So they have, so for people to know, Ned is hemp oil extract. And you can either buy it in a bottle where you can squeeze out like a, in a dropper. So like it's like a tincture. Or you could buy it in capsules. It's the same exact thing. The only difference is capsules more convenient and you don't taste it or whatever, but otherwise the same product. So anyway, I gave him the capsules all the time and he only takes one or two Macs every day. He takes it in the morning, good for his arthritis, whatever. Anyway, he ran out. So he was like, he has salad. He goes, do you have any more Ned? That's the idea I have some at work. So I come here, we ran out of the capsules. So I said, I'll give you the same thing. It's in a dropper though. Use that for now until Ned sends us some more capsules. So I give it to him. I think nothing of it. Anyway, I go over to my parents' house. This is like, I don't know, like a week later. And my dad, you know, he's barbecuing and he goes, you know, Sal, I've been feeling really weird. I said, what do you mean feeling really weird? I don't know, I feel weird all day. You know, it's hard to focus and this and that. So we're going through this thing like, what's, what are you talking about? Everything okay? Like, what's going on? So then it dawns on me. I'm like, how many, how much of the Ned are you, are you taking? And he goes, oh, I squeeze it. You know, I take it. I said, what do you mean you squeeze it? I said, do you know that? That like, and if you see on the dropper, there's like lines or whatever. And I showed him, I said, this much is equivalent because it's a strong bottle. I'll give him the real strong bottle. 200 milligrams. Yeah, I said, this much is equivalent to a capsule. Oh no, because I did the whole. I did the whole thing. So my dad was getting hella cannabinoids in his body. Couldn't figure out why he was feeling kind of weird. I'm like, dad, this is strong. This is really, really high, high dose. You have to, you need a very little amount. That's why it lasts so, that's why it's so expensive. So he's like, okay, let's just crack him up though. Cause my dad, you know, he's probably got my hypochondriac. I feel a bit weird. You know, I don't know what's going on. Things are happening. Yeah, my mom's like, oh my God, your dad's been telling me he's going to die or something. Well, I was driving back. I told you, I brought the dogs with me and they're driving me crazy. I gave the Arlo some cause it was like- They don't work for him? Yeah. Yeah. He totally was just, and it was, I kind of felt a little, I'm like, oh no, I hope he doesn't get sick or anything. Cause like he was, he was at that point where he always tries to just like forcibly snuggle you. Like he's like, we call him the invasive lover. Like he's just, like just smash his face on, and it sounds bad, but it's true. And so he was like in the back of my truck, you know, kind of making his way up. And then he starts kind of wobbling a little in his eyes or like this. He's like, ooh. And then I'm like, lay down, buddy, lay down. And then finally once he laid down out, dude, like the majority of the trip is chill. It's strong cause my dad, he had some CBD gummies that my aunt gave him. And he's like, oh, he's like, it doesn't work. I'm like, dad, I said the dose that Ned is constant strong. You feel it. This other stuff, you have to eat like 15 gummies to notice anything at all. It's strong stuff. So he literally, one cap, one little, and they're small. One little capsule or whatever. And he's like, it's arthritis and everything feels much better. It was just funny to hear him. I had to like, detective it. Speaking of our partners that we work with, Max has become a huge magic spoon guy. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. That's like one of his go-to snack. He ate it dry too. So we just fill it up in his little- That's so crazy and weight protein. Well, you know, one of the things that I was telling Katrina is that I really want to, lunch and dinner really good, but breakfast, breakfast is waffles, pancakes. I mean, there's just not a lot of You just get drawn to those crazy carbs. Yeah, it's just, it's carb heavy. And I was telling her, I'm like, he loves waffles and pancakes and- It's because he's normal. Right. You know, it's basically cake. You know what I'm saying? It's a cake for breakfast. It's in the name, by the way. Yeah, give it away. Yeah, it's pretty much cake for breakfast, hun. You know what I'm saying? With some sugar drizzled over the top of it. So not weird that he loves it, right? Especially for a kid who doesn't get any other sugar, right? So I've been trying to get her to add like more meats or more proteins in there. And, you know, he just tends to gravitate towards the sweeter, more carbohydrate type of foods for breakfast. But she has recently introduced magic spoon for him. And this, I don't know, we're probably on, we did it before vacation. So we're probably on week three or four now of consistently, it's now become a staple. And he actually asked for it all the time now. So I'm pretty excited. Because it tastes good. Yeah, no, it's great. But now he gets the protein. Right, which is, I think, you know, and I think it starts now, like trying to make sure that they're doing that consistently. I think that's part of why I struggled with it most of my life was that our meals weren't centered around a protein. And I think if had I been raised that way, I think it would have been easier for me to go after and get protein. I just was, I was trained carb-heavy foods. I could tell a difference when Aurelius has a protein-heavy breakfast, which he usually does. But sometimes he doesn't. I could tell a difference in his behavior. He's just more, it's, you know, remember when we did the episode with the CGMs and they talked about how having a protein-heavy breakfast controls blood sugar throughout the day, regardless of what you eat later on. It makes a difference. I feel like I could tell if he has fruit in the morning or something that's more carbohydrate-heavy, I noticed a little difference in his behavior. But luckily he likes, and what he usually has is three egg yolks. He doesn't even have the whites. He just wants, he just eats the yolks. Almost every single morning. Yeah, that's really good. That is really good. Yeah, it makes me. Anyway, I gotta tell you guys about something I learned about the other day, that, you know, the internet, I remember when it, I'm old enough to remember when it really became a thing and the opportunities that we're gonna open up and all the different markets and things and ways you can make money and ways you communicate with people. And it was just all these wonderful dreams and I didn't realize that this also meant you could do all kinds of weird shit and go in the wrong direction, whatever. Anyway, did you know that there's a category of men that women will cater to online and make money off of? And they're called, they have a term for these guys. No, they're called pay pigs. Pay pigs? Pay pigs. Pay pigs. Yeah, you know what a pay pig is? No, I don't. These are men. I mean, you introduced bronies to me. Now pay pigs. This is interesting, dude. Oh bro, bronies was an interesting one for me. This is, to me, blows me away. These are men that they're online and they go on these pay sites with women and they get off on women demanding money from them and them giving women money. If I was a chicken, it would be awesome. Wow. That would be so all over that, dude. You don't gotta show anyone. Sign me up for pay pigs. Yeah, they literally, they're just coming to it. Okay, they like to be, they like to be fined. That's what they call it, find. So they find them. They'll give them disparaging remarks like you idiot, whatever. So they like to be talked down to and then they like to be told, you gotta pay me. You gotta pay me $1,000 because you didn't do what I told you or because you're an idiot or whatever. I don't like your hat. That's a $50 fine. And they get off on, they send these women money. I was reading about this one woman. That is a thing, dude. There was one woman that was making a couple thousand dollars a week off of like three or four pay pigs and they just pay her cause she tells them and they get off on it. I swear, I'm not making this up. It's the craziest thing I've ever done in my life. Why didn't that work for guys, really? The market would be saturated right away. Yeah, wow. Can you believe that? That is fascinating. I know your wheels are turning out. I did, I'm turning right now. I could do that, Adam's like I'll do that all day long. They must have just been, like as a kid, I'm just like trying to picture like this pay pig guy growing up, you know, like just being scolded constantly and was just like. Look at it, hold on, hold on. Look at what it says. Not your average side hustle. The women making thousands from pay pigs who enjoy being financially dominated. That's the term, financially dominated. And they don't have to do anything other than like yell and get his fine salt in the men. No, they, it's called being financially exploited and they get off on it. Okay, so what caught, what any guess is always when you have these weird fetishes there is some sort of like psychological thing that's happened. Hold on, hold on, scroll down Doug. I want to read more right there. It says one woman who's cashing in on the fetish says she starts a typical day by posting a degrading Twitter message telling her followers to pay her. Right, like rise and shine, my little ATMs. I know exactly what buttons to push to make you spit out as much money as I want and I do it with an evil smile. Oh wow. And they pay her. Wow, that's insane. All right, so long as I key words like Fendham, pay pig and money slave. Dude, this is a whole another level because I remember like, you know, there was like a, there was like Amazon wish list where a lot of like, like girls would point to and then guys like, oh, hoping to get some kind of reward or attention would just buy them like whatever the hell. That's super common. Yeah, but like this is like, they get nothing in return. Well, you know what it sounds like to me? It's like a virtual dominatrix. Oh, it's in the category. Yeah, it's like the virtual form of that because I can't see you in person. And then probably guys that have expendable incomes, right? That have so much money that it's maybe or maybe they don't. That's really bad. If you're like, look what it says, they want to be laughed at and called pathetic. That's just sad, dude. If you really break it down. I don't know, you know, to me, the guy that poor bastard. Like to me, this was strange about it is because normally, you know, they would have to like show them nudity or. So yeah, but I'd be, I'd be interested. You get nothing out of it. I'd be interested. I mean, you're assuming that I think they're powerful men who have a lot of money who are used to being in power and in control and they get off on not being powerful and in control. Nobody tells them no anymore. That's right. So they need someone to punk them. Everyone's afraid of them. Everyone's afraid of them. Everyone does what they say. They got all the power. They have the money. And so they get off on somebody else who is. You think instead of physical pain. I mean, that's what I would get. I would guess that's more likely than the dude who's like barely getting by financially and it gets punked all day. It just reminds me of billions, right? Yes. Like he's a powerful figure that everybody is fearful of him. And so he gets off on the. Yeah, somebody else like whipping them around. Yeah, I would, I would literally, this has to be the easiest. I don't know. It's like literally scored as a goldmine. Yes. I mean, it was a brilliant chick who figured it out first. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like she's genius. And does she feel bad or does she feel like, well, hey, that's no she created a genre. She's brilliant. Hopefully she wrote a book. Yeah. See if there's a pay-pick book, Doug. There's gotta be some girl figured this out. You know what? I hate to say it, you know. And she probably hooked her homies up and said. I hate to say it, but it's always, it's always men that will give them money for the weirdest stupidest shit. What is wrong with men? I don't know. They're painful. You know there's no woman. What's wrong with men or women are just a step ahead. Are they smarter? I think probably both, but I don't, I guarantee you, I guarantee you, I guarantee you there's not a single woman on earth that gets off on giving a man money because he tells her that she needs to give him money. There's not a single one. This is a guy thing. So weird. What is wrong with dudes? I mean, I think I'm gonna stick with my guess that it's men that are in power and have money and are used to, they get that all the time. And so this would last very long. If you're just like your average dude, you're just like, just take it. Well, if your average dude gets punked by everybody and by his wife and everybody, it's alright. I don't need to pay for this shit. He's already losing. I already get punked at work and you're not punked at home. He's not married. These are single guys. Clearly I'm living under a bridge because I was a pain for you. If he was married, he'd be happy at home with free. This dude is like power, money. Everyone's afraid of me. He punks everybody else. I don't know. Okay, so there was this show, I think it was on HBO called Real Sex. I think that's the one I saw. Where they'd go into like weird stuff. I want to see your cue. Bro, Real Sex is old. You know what, Justin remembers that. I don't know. Yeah, the taboo is another one of my favorites. The sex rooms was your last recommendation. No, that was on Netflix. No, so they talked about being dominated or being submissive or whatever. And a lot of it has to do with how they deal with trauma. So people who've been abused or whatever, it's like them getting control over this trauma and it becomes sexually satisfying because they can still get out of it. They still have a safe way to plan it. That's why I feel like somehow like them growing up they must have had that like super negative comments and feedback. That's what I think. So that's a good guess. I mean, I could see that too. I could see somebody who like their mom, it's like a mommy issue, right? Their mom punked the shit out of them and told them they were worthless and then all this stuff like that. And so they're trying to gain control of it. Right, right. And they got older and successful and did their own thing and now they try and get it and now they have control and pay and stop whenever they want. So they actually can stop the girl from saying it. I don't know. That's messed up. Yeah, I think that's super wild. You know what else I read? I read something yesterday that I haven't fact checked. So maybe Doug can fact check me. TikTok is catching up to Google on search. Wow. Are you serious? Yes. I don't like that. I forgot what the percentages were but they were starting to say like even like a restaurant reviews or something like that like it's become between certain age groups, obviously that they rarely use Google anymore. They go to TikTok to find these things out. How is it? It says nearly 40% of Gen Z users prefer using TikTok and Instagram for internet searches over traditional Google search. Well, I don't trust TikTok just because I know that it's controlled by China and they do change the algorithm for some countries versus their own. And I look, I tell you what, our own CIA has done this other country. So of course they're doing this. I think that they're in there trying to manipulate, you know, kids and- You know what's wild? I mean, I look into that and to fact check it and from what I know, from what I found, it's true that what you said and I was blown away by. And I've told that to so many people since then. What I think is crazy is that I've told that to so many people and it's not changing anyone's behaviors. They don't care. Yeah. Yeah, I know it's this weird sense of like facts and being able to kind of like go back and utilize like all those ways that we used to make sure like it was valid information. Like I feel like like that whole thought process now is like being absolved right in front of us. Well, there was just a study that just came out that says that social media, because social media hasn't been around long enough to really have lots of studies, been like lots of speculation, but this new study shows that social media makes young people unhappy and negatively impacts their finances. So, there's more and more evidence showing. There's some idiocracy. Yeah. Okay, I think I have. We're headed there. If not, we're there already. Yeah. Watch that movie again. You never watched that? That's everybody's homework that says listening really. This guy goes in one of those cryo things or whatever and ends up waking up way later. He's just an everyday, average guy, but the world population continues to get dumber and dumber. He's a genius in that culture. So as soon as he wakes up, he's in the future and he's like a genius because everybody's so dumb. The president is a pro wrestler. Yeah, it's so funny, dude. You know what's funny, but that off air, we were just talking about betting on the rock being the fricking president. Oh my God, exactly. It's a viable option. If nobody drinks water in the future, they all drink this drink called, was it Brando or something like that? Or it's like this Powerade drink. Oh, maybe I haven't stopped. They can't figure out where the plants are going. The legs got electrolytes. Yeah. How old is it? How old is it? Oh, it's old. It's old, but it's so on point, man. 2006. It's pretty. Oh, wow, it is old. It's like a cult classic. Like it never really got lots of... Like an Encino Man type of, it sort of sounds like. Well, it's kind of like office space kind of vibes. Yeah, because it was, I think his name's Mike Judge, the guy who gave us some butt head, he wrote it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, hey, do you want to talk about going back? You hear that Toys R Us is coming back? Really? Remember they went bankrupt? Really? They're bringing them back. There's a, I think a mall, I want to say on the East Coast that they're going to have a Toys R Us and apparently Toys R Us is going to try and make a comeback. Who's cool. I was kind of bummed that they went out. A new ownership, new CEO, who's revived again. I don't know the details. Are they pivoting on what they were doing? That's a good question. You know, I always, it was crazy to me to see them go under like that, because I mean, Toys R Us as a kid, I remember being like one of the coolest places ever. And they were one of the first places to do this, which I thought was brilliant. Oh, it's Macy's is going to bring back. Oh, so it's Macy's bottom up. Is going to brand Toys R Us and bring it back to every store this holiday. So they're in store shops. Nice. Where they're going to be a thousand square feet in small locations, up to 10,000 square feet in large locations, where they're going to have little Toys R Uses. Why, what's your guys' opinion? Is it, you think Amazon killed them? Yeah. You think Amazon killed KB Toys, Toys R Us, like all those little mini toy stores that were huge in the 80s for us? Toys R Us was a juggernaut. So it was KB Toys. KB Toys was like an every mall. Every mall KB Toys existed. And then Toys R Us was everywhere. And they completely went away. Is it, was it Amazon that killed them? You think? Probably. The competition was so, yeah, I, you know, now the reason why I think that they're bringing it back is then Solja. Cause you know they're going to bring it back. And I think you're going to see, like parents like us, I'm going to get excited. If I see a Toys R Us. Well, do you guys remember? So Toys R Us did this. They were the first ones to do it. And I know I've seen other stores adopt it since then. But for Christmas, you give your kid the little gun and he can run around the store and shoot the toys he wants. And then it builds their Christmas list. Yeah, that was smart. Oh, I thought that was so, it was so brilliant because every kid was so excited to go do that. When I was a kid, that was the greatest place ever. Yeah. There was a Toys R Us in San Jose over here. It was on Blossom Hill. And I remember we drive by and I'd scream, but let me go, you know, no, we're not going to. And then the few times when they would turn in the parking lot, like I remember one year I wanted a Nintendo. This was when NES first came out. And I wanted it so bad. It was expensive back then. My parents didn't have a ton of money. There were four kids or whatever. And I remember I cried because I wanted it so bad. And I think my dad felt bad or whatever. And we were driving and my dad just, he just turned into the parking lot and my heart's like jumping. You know, I'm like, are we going to Toys R Us? Or are we going to Cost Plus next door? Which way are we going? You remember that? Well, sure enough, we go inside the Toys R Us and it was like the greatest thing ever. And he goes, show me the Nintendo you want. It was like the greatest thing of all time. I have fond memories of Toys R Us also. It just, it was a great store. So it's crazy to think how another business like Amazon can totally just rip the heart out. They needed new mascot. The stupid giraffes though. I thought the zebra looking giraffe thing was cool. What? Zebra looking giraffes? Multi-colored giraffe or whatever it was. Wait, are you thinking about the... Wasn't he like a multi-colored giraffe? I think you're confusing the gum, the zebra gum. Was that gum? Oh, I might be. Give me what the Toys R Us, it's a giraffe, isn't it? It's just a giraffe. Oh, it's not like the regular one. I think it's the name of Geoffrey. Geoffrey. Wait a second, is Geoffrey really his name? Because that is a extremely popular child's chew toy now. You bet you have to have Geoffrey. No, it's not Geoffrey, it's... That is too Geoffrey. No, I thought it was something else. No, the giraffe chew toy that is huge and famous right now. I know what you're talking about and I don't think it's Geoffrey. I think it's... Look up Geoffrey chew toy now. Chew toy, sorry. No, it's something else, it's a girl's name. No, dude. Okay, so I was wrong about that. Let's see if I'm wrong with it. Is it with a J or a G? No, put giraffe chew toy for kids. Popular giraffe chew toy. It's named something else. It's like Sophie, it's Sophie. It's not Geoffrey. Maybe you guys named that. Oh, bro, if I'm right on this one, that's it. It's over. You're gonna make up for that. Sophie, oh my God, Adam. It is Sophie, look at that. See what happened? I was wrong one time and that's it, never again. Maybe that's the female version. Where's the male version? There is no female version. Hey, you know you changed the name for your kid. I did, dude. That's why you think that. It was Geoffrey. We got your son, Sophie. It's Geoffrey now. Yeah, it's Geoffrey. Here you go, buddy. Here's Geoffrey, Geoffrey the toy. You also confused the, you thought you said multicolor. You're talking about the gum. Yeah, I am. With the zebra on it. It was tasty, but it lasted 20 seconds. Yeah, fruit, fruit something, I forgot what it's called. You're right, fruit stripes or something like that. You know the toy store I always wanted to go to was you remember that movie, Big with Tom Hanks? Yes. And then they went in and they jump on the, isn't that in the Bay Area? No, that's in New York. Yeah, it's in New York. It's a famous toy store. What's the name of it? It still exists if I'm not mistaken. I forget, but it's, it's like a rich name. I was always like, why don't they have this? Like I want to go to this place. Like as a kid, that was like, I couldn't even believe that there's like those kind of toys and you could go around. It's a famous toy store. Play with it all. There it is. Fruit stripe. Yes, that's exactly right. That gum lasted maybe 10 seconds. You chew the whole pack with it. Oh yeah. It might as well be Cheeklets. F.A.O. Schwartz. That's it. I knew it was like some weird, like it sounds like an investment firm. Like a diamond store or something. So what do you, okay, I'm really, I'm curious. Maybe you can find out if you looked at why, why Toys R Us went bankrupt because- They didn't make enough money. Well, obviously, right? But I mean, it was so abrupt. Don't you remember? I mean, I was like- Well, my kids were on the tail end. They like literally grew up going there and I took them there and it was like the same kind of cool experience and then all of a sudden it was like, that year it was gone. According to the Motley Fool, because the company had a tremendous amount of debt due to a leveraged buyout used to take the company private, that stopped the retailer from investing in its stores at the time when demand faltered and major retail- There you go. So it actually wasn't, okay? That makes way more sense. So they actually went, which by the way, is rarely successful. Like what Elon was about to do with Twitter- Yeah. Is- Go from public to private. Yeah, go public to private and then revive it is not common. You're not- Yeah, it's very rare. I remember when Toys R Us went downhill. I remember when it went from this fun, great place to like, I'd go there and be like, ooh. I remember what used to be like super clean and cool to go to that became like a real dirty toys out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I mean. I remember that trend. I'm sure it was right around this time. Well, I'm excited that they're gonna come back. Can't wait to take my kid and have him get excited. So if Macy's owns them then, is it now back to being a publicly traded stock then? Because it's under Macy's. Because Macy's it. Yeah, Macy's is. Do they own it? I don't know. Yeah, that's what DeWald sells- I know they're gonna be in Macy's, but I don't know if Macy's owns the deal or what the deal is. Oh, it's a partnership. So I don't think they own it. Interesting. They probably got a really good deal on it than if it's gone bankrupt, right? Imagine they got it for pennies on the dollar for its name. So interesting. That's really cool. Hey, real quick, gotta check out a company we've been working with for a very long time, Organifi. They have high quality ingredients, convenience, great tasting. They have superfood blends that make it easy and enjoyable to add more variety, nutrition to your day. They have green juices, gold juices, red juices. And then in this episode, you'll hear me talking about their plant protein powder where they combine multiple sources of protein to give you a beneficial amino acid profile. So for those of you that are intolerant to dairy or get digestive issues with other proteins, this one's pretty easy to digest. It's high in protein, tastes great. You gotta check this company out. Head over to Organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. Forward slash Mind Pump and use the code Mind Pump for 20% off. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Sarah from Massachusetts. Hey, Sarah, thanks for calling in. How can we help you? Hey, thanks for having me. You got it. I am actually a very new listener. I only found your podcast two weeks ago. One of my own clients actually recommended it. So I've been really trying to catch up on the episodes but there's a lot, so. Welcome. Yeah. I do have a question about supplements, actually. So I am a personal trainer and nutrition coach and I recently started my own cut just a couple months ago after being around maintenance for five years. So I started seeing really great results after using a couple of different fat burners, the Legion fat burner and a yo-him bean supplement. And then more recently, I started taking a fedrin. And so I was curious what kind of supplements like these have side effects that I should be aware of? Do they require cycling off of to remain efficient and effective and what your thoughts are on those? Yeah. Okay, so first off, thanks for listening to the show. Let's talk a little bit about fat burners, quote unquote, and what they actually do in the body. So yo-him bean, ephedra, caffeine can even be put kind of loosely in this category. Sinifrin is another compound that probably can be put in this category. These are all very strong central nervous system stimulants. And what they do is a dramatically increased production of what we call catecholamine. So epinephrine nor epinephrine, maybe even adrenaline, spike and cortisol. These give you lots of energy, so you get hyped, they're appetite suppressing, so you probably want to eat less. What are the side effects of that? Well, it's a stress response in the body. So you are increasing the amount of stress that you're producing your body kind of artificially. Not necessarily, actually for the most part, not really a good thing. And then the adaptation that happens to them is actually quite rapid. So what happens is the receptors that these chemicals interact with start to down-regulate. Meaning they essentially will shut down and shut off. And this is why I'll use caffeine as an example because that's much more widely consumed. This is why when you first start drinking coffee, one espresso gets it jazzed and you feel amazing all day long. And then soon you realize you need two espressos and three and then now you need them just to feel normal. So whatever effects you get from the stimulant effects to the appetite suppressing effects, they're quite short-lived and then you experience what's called a rebound. So you go through a period of, okay, now I need them just to kind of feel normal. If I don't take them, I feel terrible. And then when you go off, your body has to go through a process of up-regulating its receptors again and getting back to normal. And that can take a little while. It could take as long as a month in some cases. And what happens in that month is you have lower energy. Some people feel depressed and the appetite and cravings go up. So what's the net effect of this? Doesn't help, doesn't work. Now if I did a six-week study, I might show some weight loss because of the appetite suppressing effects. That's mainly what's happening. I don't like the term fat burner. It's not really burning fat. Whatever thermogenic effect these have on the body is minimal. Really, it's the appetite suppressing effects is where you see the effect of a loss, but... I would argue that it's not that. I don't think that's the most beneficial. I think it's the natural increase of neat that people don't realize. I mean, and this is a real simple test. Like if you ever notice yourself on a day, and I don't know if you're a caffeine or a coffee drinker or what like that, when you have your coffee versus when you don't, like so I have a drive, right? And there's times where I forgot to turn the coffee maker on. And so I've got this 45-hour drive and I'm almost falling asleep. It feels like 45 hours. Did I say 45 hours? You did. I think when you don't have caffeine, it feels like 45 hours. Yeah, it does feel like 45 hours. So I have a 45-minute drive. When I'm driving, I'm almost like falling asleep. I'm so tired, I'm barely moving. If I have my coffee, I've got music on, I'm tapping my finger, I'm tapping my foot. Like I'm moving around, I'm alert. Like that's neat. And when you're stimulated like that all day, you are burning more calories just from that. And that adds up. And I think that is what we see on those studies that show. It's all of it. I mean, because it does suppress appetite in a short period. But it wears off. You've probably already noticed this by taking them. The effects wear off. And then the rebound sucks. And what happens with the rebound is the rebound, it's like, if you're above baseline and then your body adapts and then you're out baseline, then when you go off your below baseline, and the net effect, meaning the long-term effect is zero. And I'll even say this, over time, this messes with your hormones. It messes with your stress response. You get this imbalance in your HPA axis, axis, your hypothalamus, your pituitary, your adrenals, even your thyroid can be thrown off from taking lots of these stimulants over a long period of time. Now, short bouts, like once a week, I take a fedra to give me some energy or whatever. Or I'm gonna go to a party tonight. I need some energy. Let me throw some Yo-Him-B and Yo-Hem, and a fedra together to enjoy it or whatever. Like you could do that probably gonna be okay so long as it's appropriate for you. Cause remember, they are stimulants and some people they're not appropriate. You will see in some cases increased risks of cardiovascular insults like stroke or heart attack. Not to freak anybody out. You're probably okay cause you're young. But as fat burners themselves, not effective, not in the long-term at all. It may be in a six-week period, but then you get a rebound and come back. And I've only seen over time negative, net negative effects from taking them. Now this is coming from someone, and you haven't listened to the show very long, so I'll give you a little background. The three of us have been in fitness for well over two decades. Back in the 90s and early 2000s, a fedra, the ECA stack was like, I mean, it was, you could buy it anywhere. And we worked in gyms and we worked long hours and I would take, you know, speed stack drinks they call them or rip force. And we pound them all day long. And let me tell you, that's, it was, I could see- Productivity through the roof. That's about it. But then the negative, right? When you crash or whatever. Big negative after that. Yeah, you know what they, by the way, do you know what people can take a fedra and turn into? You know what they can make out of that? Yeah. Yeah, methamphetamine, crystal meth. So just to give you an idea of where it comes from. So I don't recommend these fat burners to anybody, ever. Now, if you're like me and you're a supplement fiend and you like to play around and have fun with them every once in a while, yeah, I'll mess with them, but I don't recommend them. Not for fat burning, definitely not. Yeah. So then in terms of supplements that are effective, like creatine or protein powder, how do you tow that line of recommending supplements that you know are really effective and scientifically backed to your clients when that kind of, you know, it might be out of scope and something that I try to avoid doing, but when they are effective, how do I share that appropriately? There's a hierarchy. I mean, creatine is amazing. So is protein. First of all, with protein powder, I'm always telling a client that we wanna try and get our protein and take through Whole Foods. That's the goal always. So don't ever think, and this is something you have to communicate to clients because with the great marketing that supplement companies have done, they've convinced people to think that protein powder, when you wanna lose weight or you wanna get in shape, you go buy a protein powder, like there's something in the protein powder that helps us get in shape. But it's like just great marketing. And the truth is, no, we don't wanna have to take a protein shake. My goal is that you eat enough protein through your Whole Foods, but if you don't, this is a great alternative. So if you have a hard time hitting your targets, then absolutely we wanna utilize something like that and that's how I recommend that. As far as creatine, because it is the most studied and best performance supplement that's out there, I still am gonna tell my client, there's a hierarchy to that. If you are not hitting your protein and take every day and you're inconsistent with your diet and you're inconsistent with your weightlifting routine, why waste our money on creatine? But if you're being very consistent with your training, you hit your protein intake and your calorie macros on a regular basis, then hell yeah, if you wanna play with creatine, let's do it. It's a relatively cheap supplement that is probably the most effective performance supplement on the market. So why not? And now we're starting to attach it to a lot of health benefits. So I'm super proud of that. There's one population I would recommend creatine to, no matter what, those are vegans. Vegans because they don't get in their diet and studies show that they get some pretty good cognitive and health boost from supplementing with creatine. And then along those lines, what you said, supplementing with a nutrient that your body's lacking, it can be a game changer, but I always would defer that to somebody that I work with. So I would say something like, hey, you know, Mrs. Johnson, I work with a functional medicine practitioner. They do hair sample tests to see if you're lacking any minerals. I think this might benefit you. This is the person I like to work with. I'd like you to work, if you're interested, I can refer you and then you can do these tests to see if there's anything that you specifically need to take yourself. By the way, we have a forum on Facebook. So you haven't been listening very long, but this is a free forum and I think you would gain tremendous value from. It's called MP Holistic Health on Facebook. Go there, join the forum. It's functional medicine practitioners run it. They give talks on there, they answer questions. I think you'll get huge value as a trainer from going there. I will, thank you. No problem. And since you're a new trainer, let me send you a program that you'll benefit from with your clients. Prime or Prime Pro. Yeah, Maps Prime and Maps Prime Pro. They're correctional exercise-based and they'll benefit pretty much any client you have. So I'm gonna send those over to you for free, okay? Thank you so much. I was looking at your programs and there's so many and I really wasn't sure which one would be right. So thank you. That's it, Sarah, and I appreciate you listening. Hope you stick around. Hope Adam doesn't annoy the crap out of you. I will. I have been listening to three episodes a day, so. Oh wow, that's great. I'm trying, trying to make up for lost time. You really do like us, okay, I believe you now. Oh yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. You got it. Yeah, I like those kinds of questions because she hasn't been listening long enough to hear our stance. It's fresh, yeah. Give me an opportunity to talk about those. Yeah, I know, it's interesting to hear like the perspective of somebody just kind of dropping in of what we've talked about for years, but it's good. It's because it brings you back to reality of like, you know how powerful the marketing is behind a lot of these products and your average person just buys into it because it makes a lot of sense. And these fat burners, these CNS stimulants, especially a fedron when you combine it with aspirin and caffeine, it's also got like a drug-like euphoric energy effect. Like I had people who took them, they didn't care about fat loss, they didn't care about working out. They took them a couple of times, like I love these. I take these in the morning, help me clean the house or when I hang out with my friends or whatever. So they feel good, they can be fun in the short term. And so they've got these kind of addictive properties. That's why they got so popular. Well, yeah, and that's, I mean, that was something I was going to bring up, but it's mainly why I like caffeine so much is because of the cognitive benefits of it. And for me to feel like, you know, I can accomplish more and I'm more prepared for my daily tasks and so, but I do have to cycle through that and make sure that, you know, when it's up real high, there's less effect to it. So, but in terms of like fat loss and all that kind of stuff, like the big rocks and the big movers we're gonna stay. I love that she asked about the protein and creatine because I really think those are the two main supplements that- Yeah, most often, right? That I utilize with clients. They made the most sense for most of the people that I was training, all the rest of the stuff that's out there, unless you do exactly what you said, Sal, which is, which I, you know, she probably hasn't heard us communicate. There is tremendous value in supplementing for something you were deficient in. So if you don't have enough vitamin D or you lack a magnesium, which by the way, those two are super common in people, right? So if find out, if you are somebody who, you know, lacks vitamin D or magnesium and supplementing for that will be more powerful than any of these supplements that we're talking about, towards your fat loss goal or muscle building goal. Just health. Yeah, and overall health, right? So balancing that out, I think has lots of value, but randomly taking all these supplements, like we've addressed some, you know, branch to chain amino acid conversation, fat burner conversation, oh man, that was the liver, liver. It's like supplement day to day. Yeah, it is supplement day to day. And it's just the same thing rings true. We've been saying forever is like one, you go after all of it, you possibly can't hold foods. The next step after that is to figure out where you're potentially deficient in. If you're going to supplement, supplement there. And then if you have disposable income and you want to play with these performance supplements and you don't mind throwing a couple hundred bucks a month at it, then fine, then you can do that. You know, if federal was, it does have medical applications. It was been used in Chinese medicine as a bronchodiolator. So they'd use it for asthma. And it was sold, obviously, Sudafed. It's Sudafedrin as a decongestant. That's how it got discovered. It got discovered because some bodybuilders took some Chinese mahuang, which contains a Fedra. And they're like, hey, I feel hype. Let me put this in a drink and sell it. And they did. And that was a huge market until it got banned. Our next caller is Audrey from New Mexico. Audrey, what's happening? How can we help you? Hi, so obviously my name's Audrey. I am 22 in the email. I said I'm 23. I messed that up though. So I'm a licensed medical massage therapist. I work on veterans. I've been doing that for about two years now. And my question is, how do I adjust my training to better prevent me from feeling so strained at work? When I'm working on a client, my hand goes numb sometimes or my foot will go numb. And I've been exercising for about five years now. I ran through MAPS PowerLift and I got my deadlift up to 315, which is pretty cool. I had MAPS Nibolic. I just started the six pack apps, but I was sore for like a week. So I kind of backed off of that a little bit. And I've done most of MAPS Aesthetic. I didn't do the last phase just because I just got married last month and then a ton of stuff happened. So my question was, how do I adjust my training so I don't feel so strained after work or at work? And I've had a hamstring injury in the past. And I felt like that had to do with my hamstring being over stretched because I'm bending over the whole time I'm at work. So what do you guys think? Yeah, good question. I used to own a wellness studio. And in that studio, I had a massage therapist that I worked with for almost 10 years. And she was excellent. Her name was Devin. She was very, very good. And she would massage sometimes seven people a day, which is a lot for massage. And you know this. How many people would you work on on a regular basis, by the way, in a day? Right now I'm being about five, but I was working five days a week, but I'm down to three just because it was too much for me. Yeah, so a lot of people don't know this, but the amount of stress and strain in places on the hands, the wrists, and the shoulders when you're working on people is tremendous. What do you mean a lot of people don't know this? You ever tried to massage your partner before for longer than 30 minutes? I know. Well, two minutes. They're not super aware of it. You know when it was ever motivated for somebody. Anybody who's ever massaged their wife or partner before, they get about 15 minutes in, they want to quit. I know. Now, the reason why I brought up the therapist that I worked with is because she, her technique was so good that she never felt a lot of these strains. So what she didn't do is she didn't use a lot of her hands, she used a lot of her elbow, would position her body weight behind it, would use her body weight, and she utilized techniques that allowed her to do that work without hurting herself. So that's the first thing I would say is look at your technique, see if you can adjust your technique in ways that is gonna not put that wear and tear in your body. Now, as far as your workouts are concerned, you're going to have to reduce the intensity and the volume of your training because massage, even if you have good technique, is a lot of work. So you're gonna have to cut that back because you're already doing a lot of strenuous work when you're doing, and then I would place a focus on hand, wrist, and shoulder mobility, okay? So we have a program called Maps Prime Pro, and you'll find hand, wrist, and shoulder mobility in there, and I think that would be good for you to practice before and after you work on your clients to really help your body move in ways where you can have a little bit more longevity and maybe not so much pain. Yeah, Audre, how long have you been a massage therapist? Oh, we're about two years now. Okay. Yeah, your point actually sounds really good about technique. That's one of the things that Katrina would always say is she could tell a new therapist versus the advanced therapist is how well they are at leveraging their body. Leveraging the angles, yeah. Because you beat your body up if you don't focus. Yeah, because it's super physically demanding, but I mean, if you're deadlifting 315, I know you have an ability to get after your workouts. So that would be my clear indicator that you are not afraid of an intense, hard workout, and I probably would have to coach you to scale back. That's what I've put together in the short time that we've been talking. So that would be my answer is like, hey, maybe scale back to two workouts a week and do a full body routine and maybe even back off some of the intensity. And the mobility work. Yeah. Audre, do you get massaged? No, I haven't in a while. Well, you know the value of it. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's funny, working with massage therapists, I didn't realize how many massage therapists didn't get massaged themselves when they themselves would benefit tremendously. So I don't know if you could do a trade with another massage therapist or something, but I think that would also help you quite a bit. Great advice. Getting your forearms worked on and getting your neck and your shoulder worked on and probably even your hips getting worked on would probably help you a lot because the positions that you get in and the way you use your hands up, you need to get those muscles worked out because they can get real tight and they'll stay tight and you'll lose circulation and start to feel kind of some of the stuff you're feeling. I don't think I've ever talked about it on the show before but that was actually a crucial part of the success I had during competing years. I was getting a massage every week and if I was not doing, and I see the difference now because I don't get that anymore of how crucial my mobility work is now. I could get away with doing less mobility because I was consistently getting massage with all that training but now I'm not getting the massage every single week. I see that I have to do my mobility work or my joints are constantly talking to me. Yeah, do you have Maps Prime Pro? I know I don't. Okay, I'll send that to you, okay? And then do that, look at the hand, wrist and shoulder mobility stuff in there. And I would- Okay, I don't have any issues with my wrist or hands. That feels perfectly fine. It's just my back sometimes. Okay, well I would go through the program and I would look then at hip mobility because that might be contributing to your back. Didn't you say your hand goes a little numb though? Oh yeah, my hand will go numb but it feels like it's more on my shoulder than anything else. Okay, that's why I said shoulder mobility too. Okay, so I would go shoulder and I would look at hip mobility and work through the program and the intent is very important. So make sure you watch the video and follow the cues. Don't just do the movements. Get to follow the cues. It'll make a big difference. Okay. All right, thanks for calling in. Okay, thank you. You got it. Yeah, you know, that was such a, I learned so much through working with a really good massage therapist because the reason why I did it is because I saw the value of my clients. I'd never worked with a therapist that was really good. You know, there's a spa massage with some value in that but then there's like correctional massage and she was so good. I would see such dramatic changes in my clients and then I would have her work on me sometimes and her technique was incredible. Like the way she would leverage her body and position herself, she would use her body weight so she didn't have to use so much strength in her hands and her shoulders which that'll beat you up for five hours a day. That'll crush you. It's very helpful too to unlock it. So if mobility is a struggle especially and that was always a hard sell for me it is to get people to consistently do mobility. And so yeah, sometimes I would refer to a massage therapist just to get that circulation going in to get that access again and to move and function properly again around the joints. So I definitely found it very, very valuable to do that in conjunction with mobility. Yeah, it's really valuable but it's important to make the point or make sure people understand the difference between a Swedish massage and a sports massage. So a sports massage is corrective where a Swedish massage is more meditative and relaxing. Both have benefits, okay? So if you are the person who just needs to decompress- Yeah, sports massage to be stressful. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, no, it'll be, I mean, a lot of times- You sweat. Yeah, a lot of times I'm wincing a little bit and it took me a while to get comfortable getting a sports massage. I remember the first time I was like, oh God, that's rough. I don't know if I wanna do this. When I first started getting massage I leaned towards a Swedish massage because I felt it was more relaxing but I found I got way more benefit from a sports massage and that's what I needed. So different types for different things that you're trying to get. If you're trying to get something that is corrective then they have tremendous benefit. And then if you can also incorporate some of the mobility stuff from Prime Pro, you're really winning. Our next caller is Heather from Idaho. Hi Heather, how are you doing? Thanks for calling in. Hi you guys, I'm doing really well. Thanks for taking my question. I'm kind of a little bit starstruck. You guys have been so helpful and I just admire a ton that you do. So thanks. Thank you. Thanks. So I actually had a couple of questions if that's okay. The first one that I wanted to ask you is a trainer question. So I have a lady that I train and she's got some joint issues. She was in a car accident a while ago and so she has both her hip and her knee are both messed up. So what I've been doing with her is the zone three Prime. I just do the strength ones. Fortification workouts? Yes, thank you. I do the fortification ones and then we also do the stretches. But I was kind of wondering where I should take her next. She actually had foot surgery so I don't have her for a couple of weeks but I was just kind of wondering what your suggestions were where I should go. She's also, she really needs to lose quite a bit of weight. So that's a priority too. Map starter, I think map starter would be a good place to start with. Yeah, it's a lot of physical ball exercises. It's great strength training and based off of what I'm reading here and also what you said, I think that would be more appropriate than having to modify a program like maps anabolic. Well then I would go to symmetry actually. So I go starter symmetry before anabolic. Sure, yeah. Sure, do you have either one of those? I don't. They're both on my list of what to buy next. We'll send them to you. Thank you. That's super nice. Yeah, no problem. We'll send them over to you. So you'll have them both but I would go starter because based off what you're saying, I think anabolic, I mean you can definitely modify anabolic but it would require a lot of modifications on your part which is probably okay but I just think starter, we wrote it and the way we wrote it, I think it's much more appropriate. Yeah, it just addresses a lot of stability issues like specifically and so yeah, I think that would be the perfect place to kind of lead and direct. Yeah, that's kind of a duh. When you first said that, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's a great idea. Thank you very much. Okay, I'm not quite as nervous now. I was super nervous because I listen to you guys so much and I just think you're super smart. We're not that cool. So don't worry. If you meet us in person, hey, speak to yourself. You'll be underwhelmed. These are all characters we're portraying. I don't remember ever like in a job interview or anything ever being this nervous. Okay, a little bit less nervous. My other question was for me and this is something that I've been kind of working with. I think I put in the email three months, but it's actually been a lot longer than that because I pull muscles like around my SI joint, around my left SI joint quite often. And it's always when I'm deadlifting. And so I went through, I found you guys, when I first found you guys about a year and a half ago, I was the typical high stress pound my body pretty hard. And so I immediately went to aesthetic and really I wasn't super consistent with that but then I went to performance and I was consistent with that and I felt great. I felt really good. And I really, I added in like the hyperextension and a couple of just like getting pump days in my glutes trying to strengthen my glute, meet my glute max and my piriformis because I know those are weak. And then I felt really good and I went to strong to really try and build that posterior chain. And in my third week of phase three, which was last week, I pulled that. Again, I pulled whatever muscle they keep pulling by my SI joint. And so I was, that's actually when I, when I wrote this question, I was super frustrated and was like, why the heck does this keep happening? So I hit the email. Yeah, it sounds QL. Do you, are you familiar with the QL, the quadratus lumborum? Okay, so can you, can you do a windmill? Okay. I'm better at them. I really so in performance, I think it's phase two. There's the strength row where you use the kettlebell and kind of rotate. That one I really felt like I could feel that I was weak in those areas. And I assume that was the QL. And that one helped a lot. That was one of, one of my favorite ones from that. I like windmills for you. Windmills and Turkish getups. Turkish getups are one of those. I would make those two movements. I would try and get really proficient at them. I mean, forget our programming. I would, that would become like a two staple movements and think of it like getting good at it versus like programming it to necessarily get... Just practice them. Yeah, practice and getting really, really good at the movement. Now, because we're giving you symmetry, I think you should follow that program too. I think map symmetry, follow the whole program. I think that's going to be very likely to solve your discrepancy between your right and left. It's one side, right, that you're constantly pulling. Yeah, it's always the left. Yeah, go through map symmetry. Go through map symmetry. We tell you this in the program, but I'll tell you now too on the show. Start with your weak side. Allow the weak side to dictate what the strong side does. So if you only do five reps on the left side, that's what you're going to do on the right. Don't do more. Allow your body to balance out. You have a left to right imbalance. It's asymmetrical. So symmetry will address that. And then practice windmills. And I think you'll be okay. Great. Thank you so much. Hey, I put in my question too. I don't know if you guys read down below, but I know you've talked a little bit about archery, elk hunting and things and you guys have been, you guys have been so great to help me as a, as a newer trainer. Like I've avoided so many mistakes and I've been able to help a wide variety of people because anytime I come across something, I just go back and look at you guys's past episodes. So I really appreciated you. My, my son listens to you guys a lot. I included his Instagram, but we do quite a bit of archery elk hunting if you ever want to come out, Idaho, we're not that far from Park City. So cool. Yeah. That sounds cool. We actually have places in Idaho. So we have to come out that way. Oh, do you really? Yeah. Yeah. Meridian. So we have a couple of Meridian and Boise. Oh, nice. Yeah. We're more Eastern than that. Okay. We're kind of the southeastern part, but if you jump on his Instagram, you'll, he puts quite a bit of stuff on there that he hunts. He's by far the better one out of, out of all of us, the more successful one. But, but there is nothing in the whole world like a screaming bull, like 10 yards away from you. It sounds terrifying. We're super newbs. So yeah, that sounds really scary. Well, we'll email, send that the, like how to contact you to the person that you emailed your question to. I appreciate the invitation. Thank you. Thank you very much, Heather. Thank you, Heather. Thanks you guys so much. You got it. Have a good day. I don't know, man. A screaming bull running at me. There's nothing lying. I think she went to Rush, right? Right. I do want to, I do want to tell our audience that she did say something that I don't know if I've brought up on the show lately that I feel like we should try and be better about reminding our audience. So we have created so much free content on YouTube and through this podcast that you literally can go to YouTube or even Google and put in mind pump and then the question that you have. And we'll probably have some. And we'll probably have maybe even multiple episodes or even white papers that have been written on that. And, you know, we've gotten to a place now growth-wise where I know that all three of us cannot reach all of our DMs anymore. We prided ourselves on that early on that we answered every question. It's impossible today. So before you even slide in a DM and ask a question like that, because I find myself when I'm trying to answer those at least 80% of them could have been solved by that person literally just Google searching the word mind pump and then their question or going to YouTube and doing that and we already have their answer for them. So make sure you guys do that. I do want to touch on the asymmetry aspect. If you're somebody that constantly hurts one side, like it's one side of your body that you always pull and it's really frustrating going through and training unilaterally for, you know, two or three months. Not always, but often. It's game changer. Often we'll solve the issue. And map symmetry is a program that does that. But even if you do it on your own, train unilaterally for like exclusively for a couple months. Oftentimes you'll find the issue and solve it. It's kind of crazy that we took as long as we did to write that program because it's such a need. It is such a need. I mean, I've since we've written it, I don't know how many times it's already been recommended to people that are calling in because many times that's the thing. I finally even got Courtney's doing it now and finding all kinds of things out about her body that was like it should have been addressed all the time. Oh, Katrina ran it too. Absolutely loved it. So, no, it's funny that we took as long as we did to write that one because I think it does. It's going to help a tremendous amount of people. Our next caller is Roxanne from Florida. Roxanne, thanks for calling in. How can we help you? Hey, so how are you guys doing today? We're doing good. Thanks. Well, I'm going to start off the traditional way, but I want to say how much I want to thank you guys and you guys are doing such great work out there, debunking a lot of myths and really helping people's lives and careers and being vulnerable and putting your lives out there. So got to say thanks to your wives out there as well. Thank you. My question is you see a lot of health stuff out there in regards to metabolism and hormones and luckily all that's pretty mainstream now, but part one of my question is what... Is there any truth to a specific type of workout based on your hormone type that's out there? And of course they have questionnaires where they are asking all about your hormones and the reason why I'm asking to give you guys some context is I... Well, I grew up as a, I would say an endurance athlete. I played soccer and I danced my whole life and then kind of dabbled into gym workouts and things like that after college and a little bit afterwards. But I did have a pituitary tumor in 2011, which I had removed. Ever since then my hormones have been kind of messed up. I don't produce FSH and LH, which is follicle stimulating hormone and LH so I don't menstruate anymore and that also affects my progesterone and estrogen. I've gone through a lot of different type of workouts in the past and I've had some setbacks in 2020. I broke my back. I broke my L3. So that took some time to recover. Last year, 2021, I did a lot of fertility treatment. I spent the year trying to do fertility treatment, which was not successful. And most recently I finished MAPS anapolic. So with that in mind, and ask any questions you may have, I'm kind of confused on what kind of workout I need to do next. Do I do another roundup, MAPS anapolic? Do I need to change my workouts, depending on my hormone type or the fact that I'm in a perpetual menopause is what my doctors like to call it. Yeah, no, really good question. First off, great book in the background there. I think I recognized that one right behind you. Don't act like you're gonna do that on purpose. Whoops. I'm doing my research. I appreciate that. Okay, so look, so there's so many factors to consider when designing a workout for an individual that saying this is a workout for this hormone profile or this is a workout just for women or whatever. That really doesn't narrow it down very much. I like writing programs for goals, but even that doesn't really tell us nearly the whole story. The most effective thing you could do, Roxanne, when it comes to a workout is forget our program. We have great programs, but we do write them for general audience. The best thing you could do is hire a really good and really experienced trainer who can individually utilize your workout because here's what you need to consider. Are hormones something you need to consider? Well, of course, but so is your perceived effort and how you feel. So is what you enjoy, what you don't enjoy. So is how's your body moving? So is, is your strength improving? Is your appetite changing? How's your libido? Like all the, and more, right? All of these factors are what would help me design a workout and on the fly, change it if I needed to to give a client the best workout for them. So could I design a workout based off of someone's just hormone profile? I mean, kind of generally maybe, but I really what this is is this is really the attempt for people to market a product to really make people feel like they're going to get some special individualized workout. Like take this to like it's really, it's no different not saying that it's this is as valuable. I think hormone pro metabolic testing is more valuable than this, but it's no different than those tests you see on Facebook or Instagram where it says what your favorite color says about your personality or whatever. And she's like, oh my God, I want to know about that. So there's some, there's some valve. The reason why they can get away with this is because there is some truth. It is rooted in some truth, right? Like, you know that if you were training somebody who has adrenal fatigue and their hormones are out of balance or a thyroid condition, what are you not doing to them? You're not going to hammer the intensity, right? You're not going to put them on like hard, stressful type of training routine. You're not going to run them into the ground cardiovascular wise because of their hormone profile. So there is some truth to this idea, but it is they've taken a little bit of that truth and they've ran with it to market it and sell you something. And the real truth is what Sal is saying is that you really want this professional who can be asking you questions as you're going through your training routine saying like, how do you feel? How did you sleep last night? You know, how did you recover from our last workout? Oh, that was rough. Oh, you didn't sleep very good. Okay, let me modify this. Let me change this on the fly. And so that is way more valuable than some generic, oh, put all these questions in and then it spits off a routine off of that. And I'm telling you what it's probably going to be is like based off of some of the things that you say or they find out hormonally from you, it's going to be a lower intensity routine versus like a higher intensity routine. Yeah, something like that. I mean, to give you an example, like let's say I had a client who for whatever reason, we do some testing like this and I'm like, oh man, the ideal form of cardio for this person is running. And then I tell them, hey, if you run, that's the best form of cardio. Like I hate running. I hate running. I'd rather swim. And I'm like, well, you need to get 15% better results by running because what's when I'm going to recommend swimming because that's the one they like. And there's also value in doing things that you enjoy and the consistency that comes along with it. So I guess that the short answer is if you can find a good trainer, which really find someone who's experienced and been doing it for like eight years or more, somebody that you connect with that's that doesn't assessment, listens to you, watches you, doesn't over train you and beat the crap out of you. That person is going to give you the best workout. And what you'll find when you work with them is they'll be able to change your workout as your body changes and ask things improve or change or your sleep changes or whatever. They'll be able to change the workout and individualize it for you. Nothing's going to beat that. No workout program that we write for the general audience will beat that and definitely no program that's based off of a, you know, hormone metabolic type is going to beat something like that. Okay. So you guys wouldn't suggest that I, you know, having the personal trainer is good and I forgot to mention this, but I do like to do some cardio just for mental capacity and health as well. So I do a lot of walking sometimes a run jog and I know that you guys came out with MAPS cardio recently is since I grew up doing more so endurance workouts and not as much resistance training, do you think I should incorporate something like that into my routine? Let's say if I don't go with a personal trainer, maybe try to do something like that. Well, I got more questions for that then. So I'm assuming you're supplementing with certain hormones to make up the difference because you said you're luteinizing hormone and your follicles stimulating hormone don't exist. So are you taking progesterone estrogen? You're on hormone replacement therapy? So I was, but I just got back from honeymoon in Italy and I actually forgot. They want me on birth control and honestly after listening to a lot of the hormone doctors out there, like I really don't want to be on birth control. So I'm trying to find somebody else. Maybe there's another option that I can have other than going on birth control for the rest of my life until I hit menopause, but I'm not sure if that's an option yet. So I really honestly have to. I'm going to stay in my lane here. So I'm going to recommend you to people that we refer to in this situation like this. So we have a forum on Facebook called MP Holistic Health. It's run by Dr. Cabral and its team, their functional medicine practitioners. They're really, really good and their goal is always trying to get your body where is going to be optimal without having to use pharmaceuticals or hormones. Now that doesn't mean that those aren't options. If they have to be, then they are, but they're exceptionally good. So go on that forum. It's totally free. And then if you want, you can contact them and try some testing. Another person you can look up is Dr. Becky Campbell on social media. She's a good friend of mine. Dr. Jolene Brighton, she's also very good, but the forum is free and you'll actually be able to talk to and ask questions on there and maybe get directed in ways that could help you out because I know some stuff about hormones, but that is not our expertise. And if you are my client, that's who I would send you to 100%. Okay. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it. And again, I appreciate everything you guys do. Thank you. Thanks for calling in. Appreciate it. Yeah, it's, boy, what a smart way to market a program. I'll tell you what, you know, take this test based off of your hormone or take this test based off of your blood type. Blood type is what I've seen quite a bit. So this is a new spin off that it seems. The hormone one's brilliant though because everybody that has ever dealt with any hormone issues has always gotten a recommendation from the doctor on how they need to like adjust their training. So that like light bulb goes off like, oh, my doctor already said I shouldn't do this or I shouldn't do that now because of this. So, oh, this makes sense that there's this hormone test that I can take and find out what programming is best for me. It's like, that's generic advertising just to get you. Give me an example. You could be a man with low testosterone and it could be a vitamin D deficiency or it could be your stress is too high or you're not getting enough. There's so many reasons while your hormones may look a particular way. So just to look at a hormone profile and then boom, spit out a program without further testing further. Like I would watch my clients and see if what I'm doing is working or not. Well, that's why I made the point of like, you know, ideally and what you said originally, right? Which is having a trainer who's good and can ask those questions because that's how I mean, if she was my client, one, I would defer to people like Jolene Brighton like Becky Campbell, like Stephen Cabral guys that are way more and girls that are way more advanced in this category. But then meanwhile I'm training her, I'd be trying different things with our routine and getting feedback. That's it. You know, how did you feel? Oh, are you still sore? Oh, you didn't sleep very well. Okay. Let me adjust this. Or oh, that you feel great management. I mean, finding where they're at and then, you know, really trying to like get closer and closer to that optimal dose. Totally. Look, if you like our show, you got to check out mind pump free.com. We have guides on there that can help you do a lot of different things and they're totally free. So we have muscle building guides, fat loss guides, guides for specific body parts. We even have guides for personal trainers. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam and you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. How do I incorporate cardio and not lose muscle? I've seen people do this before where they'll start to lose the sharpness of their muscles or they'll start to lose the sculpt a little bit and that's disheartening. But if you do it right, then you minimize that muscle loss or that metabolism slow down. In fact, if you do it right, you can actually speed up your metabolism at the same time that you build stamina and endurance. You just have to be able to kind of program it properly. And the way to program it improperly is just to go and do it as much cardio as you can for as long as you can. Right.