 All right, here we are. Another episode of The Grail. Fantastic guest. Introduce yourself, my man. I'm Josiah Citrin. Chef Josiah Citrin, chef owner. Citrin Hospitality, which includes Mollice Restaurant, Citrin, Charcoal Venice and Charcoal Sunset, Dear James and Dear John, as well as Augies on Main. Yeah, just a just a fucking king of the restaurant world. It ended up that way. I don't know how that happened, but not exactly my choice, but somehow I got just all happened. It's interesting. First of all, you got some Jacques-Marie Mages on there. So shout out to that. Always. Yeah, right? I just got these. So they're great. Yeah, they're the cash, Johnny Cash. Oh yeah, the cash. Here's the cash. How many pairs you got? I have four. Four pairs that I adjust them all, turn them into transition, progressive. That's what I wear all day long in and out all day. I love them. I'm the same way, man. I had Jerome on and years ago, and it's just amazing to think about where his company is now. It's like a cult following. Yeah, he's interesting. His story was interesting. Coming here from France, and then I looked it up when I found the glasses, working for all the sports, whatever, exports, or snowboarding, school candy and Burton, right? Yeah, yeah. It's just wild, right? But they started it. It didn't do very well, Jacques-Marie Mages. It was kind of like floating out there and no one knew, and then it just caught on like fire. Yeah, it's interesting because I got them years ago, and I happened to walk into Fred Siegel, and they have like five pairs, and they go, I go, oh, what's this? And they go, that's a new brand. And I immediately put it on, and I was like, well, these are insane because there was that whole, maybe a 15-year period where no one was doing anything with I wear. It was just ridiculously stale. And then here comes this guy, and not only does he come out of the gate, in the last five years, he's probably released like a couple hundred styles, and they've all been home runs. Yeah, and then the packaging's nice. Everything's nice on him. Yeah, man. It's interesting to see in this day and age where everybody cuts corners and doesn't care about anything that he really goes the extra mile. And it kind of, when I met you, it reminded me of like your food and your restaurant. You had went the extra mile, everything in there, the furniture, the food, the silver, where everything was perfect when I was in there. And I was like, it's really, really rare to see that these days. Somebody go in the extra mile. Yeah, it's the whole idea, right? Take it the extra mile, push it a little harder, keep trying to get better in pursuit of excellence is always what we're fighting for, right? That's right. I gotta tell you, man, I grew up in the Bay Area, San Francisco, and when I first moved to LA, it was really tough to kind of find some good food coming from San Francisco, you know, just the food level in San Fran was so beyond to me that it was really hard to adjust for a little while. But it seems to me in the last 15 years or so, LA has really caught up and has really, you know, taken off in the culinary world. I would agree. San Francisco was mystical for so many years. It had, I mean, all the farms and all the stuff near it had that whole vibe that shape and ease kind of vibe that started all those chefs that left there and kind of had that farm to table going on. But LA, we always had kind of a different situation. We always had like that, you know, much more ethnic, different, you know, kind of foods here, we've always had that. Plus, we had some good restaurants, but it wasn't like San Francisco, it wasn't so many places popping up. It's also a big spread out city, so it's hard to find all these places. It's not like you walk around the corner, there's one great restaurant to another great restaurant. And I think being an LA native, some people forget that when you go to San Francisco and New York, there's one way streets everywhere. And so you're on a one way street and you go past that same restaurant every day or that same, and you see those restaurants, you remember those restaurants, you know them. Here, there's a million ways to get around the city and you cannot go past that one restaurant for the next 10 years. You know, our streets are much more user friendly, I guess, not being one way. Yeah, it also has to really be by a strong word of mouth if you can't get any press. And that's really what you're relying on. People going like, oh, you got to go to this restaurant, you know? Yeah, that's the best anyway. Word of mouth is always the best way. Absolutely. Now, what really blows my mind, you're the first chef I've ever had on and you own your restaurants, that has got to be the toughest game I've ever seen. And I'm a comedian. I think it's harder than being a comedian. You know, people think that's like the hardest thing as far as like, you know, grinding and struggling. But I just look around at restaurants for the last 20 years and think, how do these places make money? You know, I mean, I really do not understand it. It's definitely not easy. I mean, you kind of it's, I mean, it's like, you can lose in a month, you have a great month, you make a little money, you have a bad month, you lose a lot of money. And you know, being in Los Andes, we've always been pretty lucky, like, a little insulated to some of the recessions and everything because we have Hollywood, except when we get in situations like now where we have an actor strike and a writer strike, and all of a sudden you realize how much that drives this town and how much it affects it. And always people are, oh, what do you mean the actors, they really go to your restaurant that much? Are the writers? No, people don't realize that the whole industry is shut. I mean, anybody who has anything to do with that industry is not going out to eat right now are very little. I mean, obviously, the top 5% or 10%, yes, they always have money, but the rest of the 90% of people that work in Hollywood are really on a budget, you know. So it's been tough right now in this time. But you know, we grind it out, we do it. I think you get in this, the kind of restaurant of Iran or more, it's not from a business sense, you get into it, it's a passion. I got into it from being a chef and not wanting to have to deal with asshole owners. So that's how I ended up owning my own restaurants. Other restaurants start off from a business, you know, people go to business school, hospitality business school, they decide they want to open a concept, they do it strictly as a business. Mine is a passion project that I had to learn how to make money so I can keep the passion project going. I was pretty blown away to think about years ago, I don't know if you saw that documentary on Chef Gordon, you know, where basically people like Wolfgang Pock and these chefs were basically making like no money at all for these restaurants. And then he came around and kind of created this, you know, the chef, the TV shows and get these people paid and stuff. Was that a case when you first started out? Because you've been in the biz like over 25 years, right? Yeah, I'm getting close to 30, starting in 86. So I'm nearing 40 years now, 86, 96. Wow. 16, yeah. I'm nearing 40 years doing this. Long time. I mean, look, chefs have always, I mean, certain chefs along the way have always done well. They have mission three stars, or other cooks never made money, but definitely, you know, as it goes, the starter with Paul Bacouste is really the first chef that kind of taken the chef out of the kitchen and making the chef a celebrity. The old thing used to be they're gonna, if the house is burning, they'd save the dog before the chef. That was the old thing back in the old days. But now definitely gone, but definitely like as chefs went on and started doing TV, Gordon Ramsey, he really changed in a way that he became producing the shows and he really understood it and got it and kind of rammed with it even more, which is incredible also because here you have a chef who also has three Michelin star restaurants. It's very not normal to have a chef who's TV and three Michelin stars. But when you're around him, he's amazing. And just his whole energy and how he so quick, so sharp and the energy level he has like, it's like five humans energy level. I just remember early on spagos, the one on the little spagos on the horn. Yeah. And early days of Wolfgang. And then of course, I'll never forget the day I was watching Letterman. And here comes Bourdain with Kitchen Confidentials. He comes on and he does an interview and I'm like, Whoa, this guy's like an outlaw, man. He's into good music. And I read the book. I'm not even, I'm not even into that. I just bought the book because I love the dude. And next thing you know, I'm taking the ride and and trying all of these incredible restaurants over the last probably 25 years of traveling around. And it's interesting. These characters were kind of outlaws like you are a heavy music freak. You dress cool. You know, when I saw you right away, I was like, Oh, this guy is one of those cool chefs, you know, it's wild. I think that a lot, you know, I think it's artistry. It's a lot, you know, sort of outlaws. I mean, I mean, I think Anthony Bourdain, he went to, you know, good schools, everything, but he got, you know, capable, you know, a pretty good family. He's a great storyteller, right? So that's what he can install everybody to love this. And that's what is great. His great addition was he can tell these stories and make everybody want to go and all these places and love these restaurants and this different food. It's a great, you know, knack to have what he had. And he came on the scene. Yeah, he was a rebel, a pirate, you know, like all kitchens, like, when you're in a kitchen, it's not, it's not normal life, right? You work whenever the people have fun, you know, and it's a high stress life. We all think it's the end of the world, even though it's just food, right? We're cooking food, we're not saving lives. But to the customers and guests, you think we're like saving their life sometimes, like if they wait 10 minutes longer for their meat, they're like pissed off, like acting like, oh, they're back there fucking around the kitchen or they're having a cigarette bake. Well, we're working our ass off and the stress blow over the kitchen, you know, you get off late at night. So if you go out for a drink, when most people are having a drink at six o'clock to eight o'clock, you're having a drink from 1130 to two. And you know, nothing good happens after two. So unfortunately, you know, it's just kind of your life and then get up and start all over again, especially when you're just a cook. You just a cook, you go back to work about one o'clock. So, you know, you get time to sleep in, your day gets going and it's just kind of a never ending tumbleweed. But yeah, it's kind of, I think chefs are kind of, you know, interesting. You get into this chaotic business because you have some kind of chaos or you're drawn to chaos. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, most chefs, I know, they like to do a little drinking and, you know, and they'll fly off the handle. When I do mature on, you get a little more used to it. Like, you know, you start off when you're like, when you start off, you're nuts and you just want to cronk with the world and be the best. And then as you get older, you realize, okay, I'm still here, nothing really happened. I don't know if I need to fly off the handle like this so quite much. And plus this new generation of youngsters, they don't really appreciate that too much. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They'll report you. Yep. That's the new world. They'll report you. They're snitches, these kids. They're snitches. Yep. Not good. Yeah. So basically, what happens? You grew up in Santa Monica, you're LA born and raised, and then you go out to Paris to Culinary Academy. What happens? No, basically, I grew up surfing out here, hanging out, Dogtown, Santa Monica, Venice, Surfing. And my mom had a little catering company and she'd do a lot of catering out of the house. So, you know, I had to make a couple bucks to go on surf trips, so I'd help her. Then it came around time to kind of like figure out what I'm going to do with my life. So I'll be a chef. I had no idea what I was getting into. Talked to a bunch of chefs in LA. Should I go to school? Should I get a job? They also get a job. So I got a job at the West Beach Cafe. It was a pretty hot restaurant in Venice back in the day. We're talking 1986. So, you know, at that time, there was a lot of drugs in these restaurants and I'd worked there for six and a half months. Everybody's partying, staying up all night. I don't know, if I'm going to actually do great here in learning, I'm going to learn to be great here. So I decided to move to France at the time my dad is French was living there and doing gray market bans and converse and Levi's. Wow. He's kind of selling on the gray market. So I moved to France and got a job. Said I'm going to go for one year when I was 18 and a half and I ended up staying for three years, had the time of my life. I mean, who wouldn't have a good time in Paris when you're stay 18 and a half to 21. I mean, first I could drink there legally. I couldn't even drink here. So, but no, it was a great time living there and experiencing Paris, a city that was so amazing, especially in the late 80s. And then you come back and you start working for different restaurants. Is that what happens? Yeah, I came back and I started working for Wolfgang Puck at Shinwon, Maine a couple of years and did a couple of years at Joaquin for Shawl and patina group, Tina restaurant. Then I went on my own with my partner Rafael, my best friend from childhood. We opened a restaurant in 96 called Giraffe on 5th and Santa Monica, which was there for 20 years. I left in 1999 and I opened Malice in 1999. And now it's been 24 years and life's gone by. Happens just like that. It's insane, right? I mean, some of that food you were serving me, I couldn't even tell you what it was, you know, it was just coming out because I was there for the, I guess, what's that? It's like the pre Michelin party. I think it was like, right. And you were just bringing out all this different food. And it is incredible to think about when I was a kid, I wouldn't eat shit man. I was into cereal, grilled cheese sandwiches and barbecue. You know, that's the wrong with that though. Those are the three good things. Those are the greatest, right? But as I got older, I started just trying stuff. And now I'll pretty much eat anything except for maybe sea urchin, you know, I mean, I'm not born aid, born aid, lunacy of like eating, you know, pig balls and shit like that. But, you know, I'm pretty sure you ate sea urchin that night though. I know I did. I was like, I still hate it. You have that crunchy little one bite sea urchin dish. Yeah, immediately it was like, oh, that's some sea urchin. Yeah, sea urchin is one of those things that the taste can put people off or it's kind of like cilantro. Either love it or you need it. When you start your restaurant here on your own, I mean, it had to be a fortune just to start about, just to think, the rent alone is crazy in LA, right? Yeah, I mean, fortunately, I started back in 1999, it wasn't as crazy as now. Right. I kind of had time to build into it. I mean, I ran here with $11,000 when I started, you know, now it's only 20. It's not that bad. It didn't go up 21, but it didn't even double over 24 years. So it's not horrible at the police and live in some moisture, but I have some other ones I pay some steep rent at. Yeah, yeah. Now your restaurant, it's two restaurants really. Yes, it's two restaurants. Explain that to people. So originally we opened in 1999, the whole restaurant was Mali. So the very fine dining restaurant was White Table Clause, you know, your traditional French style restaurant. Then for the 20th anniversary, I decided to re-cut the whole place and create two restaurants in one. Two different entrances. They do share a bathroom. So I made Mali's a small five-table intimate restaurant with the kitchens in the dining room and it's kind of one together. You know, we have fine tables, everything's fine, like you stated, we even have a beautiful Macintosh sound system, wonderful speakers, and we play albums. And the albums are always played beginning to end. Very rarely do we do greatest hit albums because I want to have what the artist created in the album as we create the menu. Kind of like, you know, they put the first track on for a reason, the last track should have a reason to the album. So we kind of play the whole album from beginning to end, whatever it is, slow songs, fast songs. That was Mali's, it's like a 15 to 16 quart bite menu. And then we have the rest of the restaurant became Citroën, which had some of the, like some of the old signature dishes from Mali's. So we don't do any of the new signature dishes. We don't do any signature dishes from Mali's and the new Mali's. We have those in Citroën, a few of them, plus a lot of new dishes. Citroën's all-a-cart menu, has a big bar, a lot more, it's not as fancy, a little more casual, but still a nice restaurant for a nice time. So Mali's has two Michelin stars and Citroën has one Michelin star. So it's a good feeling to have three stars, but not exactly three stars, three stars per say. I went to that Michelin star event and you were there and I had never seen anything like this and the pressure of that has got to be insane of each year holding on to your Michelin star or gaining a third or a second Michelin star. The room, the room felt like, I've never felt the tension like that in a room ever, where people were just in there biting their nails and they would say new Michelin star restaurant, note sushi. And it was just like, ah, and people other people would lose their stars. It was like, I didn't even know. That's the thing is once you get it, once you lose it, it's bad. And I have other restaurants that people are like, oh, don't you want to get a Michelin star there? I said, no, I have enough pressure with the two restaurants that have stars. I don't want to have Michelin stars in every restaurant. So if you lose a star, do you feel that the restaurant community, the customers go, he lost a star, the restaurant is slacking now? Do they really, does it get out like that? I don't, I think so. I think it's definitely, it's harder to have business, especially tourism. And the business in Michelin draws a lot of tourism and stuff. So yeah. Yeah. That is, that is insane, man. You know, do you remember? Do you stress just thinking about it right now? I do. I could feel you, man. I could feel you. I was in there with the guys and I was like, oh, this is awful. You know, like, every year when the guy comes out, you know, it's starting to come out that months when they start to ask you some questions or, you know, it's coming out, you just till it comes out, you're like, or basically to get the invitation to the party, you're like, shit, am I going to, if you don't get invitation, you're screwed. It means you lost it. You're not invited. Oh, oh, so that's the, you're waiting for that invitation, you know, and every year. So this happens every year at one month before it, like shit. And you have one side release the night of the party and figure, hey, we're good tonight. And that's the Google wrong. And after that, it's like, yeah. How does it work? Do they, do they come in and secretly eat or do they say, hey, we're coming in. We want some, try some food and make sure you're still at the Michelin star level. How does that work? It's secret. You don't have any idea when they come. We don't know. There's no rhyme or reason. Wow. It's like secret shopper stuff, man. Exactly, completely. Now, is it strictly on the food or is it also on the service and presentation and all of that? I mean, Michelin says it's strictly on the food, but it all is an experience. So they might not judge the service, but the service affects your experience with the food. So it's about everything. It's about the presentation. It's the whole shebang. Do you remember when you got your first Michelin star? What, how, I mean, what was that like? You had to be incredibly happy. It was amazing. Well, this was back in 2007 for the 2008 guy and the first time they came to LA, but somehow a few of us figured like, we were also nervous hearing the Michelin guys coming and you're like, oh, shit. I'm just hoping to get a star and then there was this thing and then I think, oh, and then like, the New York guy came out, the LA guy came out and then looking in the UR line, and on the website, you know, www.com, Michelin stars slash New York and then click on the one for, said the same thing for San Francisco. Let's give this a try. Type in Los Angeles up at Pox. It was already on the website, but they hadn't been released. Oh, full scandal. Everybody found out before saw the two stars. Like, holy shit. I was like, I'm amazing. I couldn't believe it. Wow. And then did it change overnight for your business? Well, yeah, but then later it came out and they still, Michelin being the amazing, how they are so stoic. They went along and before they had the party, you see a phone call the day of the release and they tell you you got two stars, you got one star, you lost the star and now they do the party instead. So everybody goes to the party and this whole thing. So they used to be even more mysterious than they are, but it was a great thing. I don't think Michelin was too happy when that whole leak came out and the whole thing happened and we found it after that. But that was the interest into LA and then we had two stars from them. We never had just one. We started with two stars. But again, we're a restaurant that had been open for eight or nine years. I have a question. Is that a real background? I'm going to say it's pretty cool. Very Don Draper looking little living room. Yeah, yeah, total madman. You and I talked about mid-century and design and I saw your Macintosh stereo and I was over there just kind of putting on Miles Davis and stuff and hanging out with Burr and his wife and we're just having the best time and they're eating the greatest food. It just felt like it just felt beyond to me. Just that vibe, that little, little room and great music and great food. It makes you sit down for a minute and go, you know what, man? This is all you need and all the bullshit just wipes away. You're just in there, friends, good food, good friends and good music and it's just a game changer for your mind. I agree. And that's not a typical fine dining Michelin style experience. It's totally like I said, when I opened Malice in 1999, I was 30 years old and I opened this fine dining restaurant. I was a young kid cooking for old people. Now I like to say I'm an old man and I have a restaurant for young people, right? Because I mean life changes, life evolves. And I had to say, what's next for fine dining? Because when my grandfather used to tell me about when he lived in France, my friend and how he go out to these restaurants to find dining, they were nothing like when I started cooking in 30 years later. And then now we're here 35 years later and I just say, what's next for fine dining? What do I want fine dining to be? What does it mean to me? And I guess I felt at a time of putting so much in and having to establish what I did, I could decide to what I want fine dining to be. And that's what Malice is. It's what I feel fine dining should be. Not traditionally what it was. I mean, in a yes, we use the fine china. We create the wine glasses, the whole idea of that part traditional, but the music, the small intimacy, the artwork, the whole way we do it in there is definitely what I feel fine dining for me should be now instead of what it was in the past. Well, you have a little bit better time, but we're a lot more casual as a, what's the word I want to say, we're a lot more casual now as people as a culture, our culture is way more casual. Society is more casual here in LA. So I just felt like I want to make this experience that's totally different. And, and I think it worked out like, you know, took a risk with that, but it worked out. Let me ask you about growing up in LA. I know you're a big music head. And same as myself, we talked to music. Were you going out to live shows a lot or were you cooking at night so you didn't get to go out a lot? Before that, I go to some shows, you know, at the rock city or like the music machine goes to the untouchables, some of the local bands, you know, I see the clash that, you know, back in the day, the Santa Monica Civic auditorium had some great concerts. I saw the pretenders there. My first concert was this band called the surf punk. They're not that great. They weren't the best band, but they were a fun band to watch. You know, it was a great concert, you know, but seeing the clash there, amazing, like that was all one of my all time favorite bands ever clash. You know, gotten to the mod scar kind of thing, see the English beat, you know, the Roxy, the music machine, the whiskey, go to some events there. But once I started cooking, you know, I worked nights and that was pretty much my life. You kind of give that up. You know, you cook when other people have fun. The shows are over. Even when you get out 11, 30, 12, it's like, it's too late. The show's over. I mean, like I said, you can go to a bar and then nothing good happens. You're up. You're up. You're wired. And it's like, you don't want to go to sleep. LA's not the best town. Fortunately enough, LA kind of forces you home, not like New York. Yeah, right. But music was always part of it. I think my parents love music. I've always loved music, listening to music. I just think it's part, it makes life, right? It's like, you want to have that soundtrack behind your life, right? You have that soundtrack playing the background. Imagine it. And to me, it's just always like, you know, when you're having a shitty day, something's not right, listen to music, you forget about that crap and you just kind of drift off into some good times. I wouldn't play anything that has bad memories, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. New York's 22, because if it's a song or something that reminds me of a bad time, a breakup or something like that, it could take you right back in that shit too. So very emotional music. And I think that's what I like about it. It creates a lot of emotion. It also sets a mood for a type of restaurant that I go to, you know, by going to a restaurant, they're playing fine, you know, kick-ass music. I know right away, I'm going to be eating there more and more, you know, because there is that thing where restaurants just don't care what they play and they're just pumping in like low techno or house music or whatever. And after a while it starts to get to you, not like I'm some old man or whatever. But when I go into like, let's say Wolfgang Puck's cut and they're playing Zeppelin. Exactly. That's what you want. Yeah. I make all my own playlists. Because to me, I need to have that playlist recommend what I want. Like when I just open this new charcoal on Sunset, you know, you need a little more hip hop R&B. So I made a playlist for R&B, but I went and I listened to it. I stayed up, got home, probably stayed up to like 3.30 in the morning. And I just made, went through this different R&B, like playlists that were out there on Spotify. But I listened to every single song I put on there that makes sure it fit what I want to have and make sure they had enough up and down, you know, enough stuff. I don't want to, I'm not going to put a bunch of, I don't want to have a lot of explicit language. Right. I want enough edge to like, you know, if there's an NWA song you can find that has just enough, you know, you put that on. But yeah, I have to listen to it all. I have to hear it and make sure it's what fits to be on there. I do feel like LA has some great steakhouses, you know, boa cut and now charcoal on Sunset is at the 9,000 building across the street from the Roxy. Exactly. Yeah. And that's a, that's a famous building over the years of all kinds of stuff going on in there. That building is so famous. Everybody has someone who either was their agent or worked there accountant, lawyer, that building's like nuts. It is nuts. I went to meetings there early on in LA, you know, like that ice cube, I think he had his office in there and I did a movie with him. So I went to some meetings there and, you know, it was always like the 9,000 building, you knew right where you're going. Exactly. 9,000 had that big yellow 9,000 right in front. So it's kind of cool to be anchoring that off, getting that going. We just opened a few weeks ago, so. I'm going to go try it. I'm going to go see Neil Young at the Roxy. Yeah, 50th anniversary. Yeah, I'm going that night and I want to go and eat a steak at your place and then walk across the street and see Neil Young. I don't think there's anything better than a kick-ass steak and Neil Young. Well, I think that's going to be pretty cool. He's going to be cool. I think that, I think he played there 50 years ago. Right. Right. That's the night. Yeah, I think that's the September 20th. Somewhere in September. It's coming up. Yeah, it's the 20th. Yeah. I'm looking forward to that. It's going to be a good night there. Neil Young rocking out. Unbelievable. And you have charcoal in Santa Monica, right? Yeah, charcoal in Venice. Venice, charcoal in Venice. Right on the board. I'm going to go Ray. He's actually eating there. Neil Young came in for his anniversary with Daryl Hannah. Wow. They've eaten several times at Milise. I believe they're vegetarian so they like my restaurant. We always have a vegetarian menu at Milise in the old days. Let me ask you, why do you think that a good breakfast is almost impossible to get? My favorite restaurant in LA is All Time in Los Feliz. And it serves one of the best breakfasts I've ever had. Mama's in San Francisco. One of the best breakfasts on the planet. Why do you think it's so hard to find a good breakfast? I feel like there was better breakfast before. I feel like back, like to me, I love good eggs, a thick ham and steak, and some nice hash brown potatoes. I love that breakfast. It's nice sourdough toast. I would always go to, what's the name of this place? It's on Pico. Oh, I love this place. I go there with my daughter all the time. They open one in the valley too, but then it was on Pico. Blue app? No. What's the name of this? I would go there before school with my daughter all the time. It was an Irish guy. He opened a year ago, right before Rancho Park. I don't know. What's the name of that? It was a great restaurant. It's going to come to me. Is it gone? It's still there. No, it's still there. They had great, great, like, you know, country biscuits, and their food was awesome. The name is killing me. They always had a great breakfast. Maxwell's, it's on Washington. Yeah. That used to have the best huevos, rancheros back in the day, like, you know, in the 80s and 90s, they stole it off. But I just think breakfast has gotten different now. People don't eat the same way breakfast. Those greasy spoons that had that great breakfast are kind of like, you know, disappearing. Like, there was a place called Cora's Coffee Shop. It's right there where Cora's is, where Campo is, right on Ocean Avenue in Santa Monica. This guy, Ernie, ran it. Had a counter, you walk in, and he did his omelettes. He'd flip them right there and do them. He had these sandwiches, the ham killer sandwich. It was like, still good. The melted cheese on the ham, the fried eggs, the white bread, just done right there and handed to you. So it was, oh, it was great. So breakfast, I think is, I don't eat breakfast anymore. So I think it's died off. I don't know. A lot of people don't feel it. Maybe the younger generation don't have to cook it. It all got to be avocado toast and this and some fermented greens that are having this like little berry bowl. I mean, I'll tell you what, it's all fine, but that's the different than the old breakfast where you have that perfectly cooked egg and you have that great thick cut toast and you stop that up. Delicious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to go to all time with me and we'll have like a brunch. Yeah, I've never been here. I had to check it out. I don't make it to Silver Lake too often. That's in Los Feliz, but same difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I get it. I need a passport to get there. Man, when you live on the other side of town, you might as well live in San Diego, you know. The hour and 20 minutes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the breakfast, I mean, to me, I like a queen breakfast because I eat pretty clean in the last seven years. So I like like a kick-ass overnight oats. I like a super clean omelet with great eggs, you know, really good eggs. I love an amazing breakfast quesadilla. I love breakfast quesadillas. I like omelettes, but they got to be French style omelettes made, you know, with good ingredients, soft, beautifully fluffed up. I love it. I love it. You know, it's hard to find a good breakfast in LA. It's really wild. And I'm not talking about like a truck because I'm going to get a lot of DMs. Oh, you ought to try this. It's like trucker style places. There's a million of those, you know, where they have like, they got pancakes, they're 16 feet high, and they put like candy bars in them. And you know, it's like, I'm not talking about that shit. I'm talking about a clean fucking breakfast like farmer's daughter, like in Lower East Side, New York, stuff like that. Yeah, but John O'Groats, that's what I was talking about. They had a good breakfast. John O'Groats on Pico. Oh man. That's good too. I like their breakfast. Like I said, I always like stick cut ham and eggs. That was my go-to for breakfast. What else has good breakfast? I mean, I grew up being in this place called Thomas' Coffee Shops. It was on Lincoln. It wasn't the best breakfast, but it was home. Yeah, oh yeah. Taken eggs, taken eggs and hash browns. Oh yeah. That was me. Every night, Mel's on Geary in San Francisco. They're open all night. I get steak and eggs at three in the morning after playing music, like steak and eggs and an espresso bean shake. The best, right? But I mean, New York used to have all those great, great like coffee shops on every corner, like, you know, Seinfeld Coffee Shop there. Yeah, yeah, those are great. Sam Fran just lost a great one a couple years ago. It was in the Castro called Sparky's. It was open for, I don't know, 30 years. It was one of the great, great breakfasts, you know? Oh my God. But Mama's is the best hands down in San Fran, and it's got a mile-on line which sucks, you know? These mile-ons is when it's good. Oh, it makes me nuts. Yeah, it's hard to cook the right good breakfast, I guess, you know? Yeah, yeah. Maybe next time your next restaurant will be a kick-ass breakfast place. Yeah, but then you got to go to work in the morning when people call in steak. That sucks. We do a kick-ass brunch at Charcoal. We were doing it on Saturdays and Sundays, but we didn't get enough business to be closing one in Venice. I'm going to give it a shot on, in Sunset, trying to open for brunch. And I want to do, like, I want to do a DJ or something fun, do something, I don't know. I'll go, man. When are you going to start it? Hopefully in the next four weeks, I got to forget the staff in and get it going. I got to push them. You text me and I'll come out and we'll eat some brunch there. For sure. Sounds awesome. It's a good brunch. It feels great. I can't thank you enough for talking to me, man. I really enjoyed your restaurant and you, as a human, I thought was just fantastic. I was like, oh, I got to have them on the show. I'm always mystified by people that have restaurants that are open 10, 15, 20 years. And you just walk by and you go, man, that guy's been there for like 30 years. That is like a full win in the restaurant business. Yeah, it's a long time. You got to keep inventing yourself. You got to keep seeing what's next. What's next? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks, man. And you got to get some comedy. I got to check it out. What do you use in the comedy show? Where do you use your go? I'm at the comedy store all the time, man. I'm there. The guy came in. It's just still down the street from charcoal. What's his name? One of the manager came in for dinner one night. Richie. Richie. He's from the back east, right? Yeah. Back east guy. He came in, told me he enjoyed it. Yeah, excellent. Okay. Well, come down. Are you at charcoal at all? Lately, I've been there almost every night. Oh, I'll come in. Are you going to be there this week? I'll come in. I'll be out. Yeah, let's see. I'll be there Friday night. Tonight, I got to be there in the evening and then Saturday I have a big catering party, so I won't be there. All right. I'll come in tonight. All right. I'll be there. Oh, man, I'm looking forward to. I love the name charcoal, man. It just looks like it. When I was a kid, man, you'd go down to the grocery store and you'd buy those charcoal briquettes in the bag with that chef on the cover of it. Remember that? What was that brand? I don't remember briquette. Yeah, it's just charcoal. You're talking about the red and white bag and white. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. It's the only bag they had back then. Yeah, yeah. You get all these other good stuff. You just get the briquettes. That's what you got. You went to the grocery store and you pick up a six pack and a bag of charcoal briquettes. Go around that webber and get it going. Yeah, you got the fucking webber burning your finger on the vents. It's all good. Best way to cook. God, man. How do you cook the steaks there now? Is it wood? You put them on charcoal, all over charcoal. Wow. Open grill. Yeah. Beautiful. Wow. We don't use the briquettes anymore. We use the organic oaks, beautiful charcoal. Yeah. Nice flavor, not too strong. All right. Love it. I'm going to come down there and Paul, you got ribs, steaks. What do you got? We got steaks. We got some lamb ribs in our killer. We got fish. Everything's cooked over charcoal from the veggies, though it has a lot of flavor and deliciousness. Really grubble place. You'll like it. I'm looking forward to it. Not too typical steakhouse. It's totally different. Good for vegetarians too. Okay. I'm on it. Thank you so much for being on the show and I'm looking forward to seeing you at the restaurant and come down and see some comedy. I look forward to it. Enjoy it, Dean. Thank you, my man. All right. Thanks a lot. Cheers to that.