 Well, it's good to be here with you and We have a variety of ages here, but I do see a number of younger people here and Grateful for that, but I'm also grateful that there are some older people here I might feel a little insecure if it was only young people here. Welcome to all of you I would like to just begin at this session by Telling you that addressing educational considerations and options for church planting especially urban ones Would seem like a very unlikely thing for me to address I was a rural Kansas farm boy and loved animals loved You know, I wonder if maybe we should The two mics too close together see whether this would help us out a little I loved animals. I loved nature and considered myself a Farm boy so Thinking of ever in my life being in the city just didn't even occur to me I remember as a third grader we had from our school teacher this little sheet where we were supposed to dream about what we would be when we grow up Well, my dream at that point would be that I'd be a cowboy when I grow up. I Think most of my students in Brooklyn, New York could hardly imagine me as a cowboy today But that was my perception as a little child my initial experiences in school were not so easy and in fact I would have perceived myself as basically an academic failure as a young child I remember as my first year of school felt like the longest year of my entire life, which of course was only seven years at that point But it seemed like almost like an eternity it just would go and on and on and on it was not an easy experience It was a very hard experience. I would consider myself a late bloomer and in almost every regard but certainly academically and I remember as a third grader reading an autographed book one of my classmates and One of my first grade teacher had written in it a poem about all of my classmates And of course I knew that would include me so Of course my eyes quickly went to what she would have to say about me and to this day That's the only piece of that entire poem that I can remember But my line went like this and Dwight who was so slow that came from my first teacher and Honestly, it didn't necessarily knock me out because it wasn't a new idea to me. I realized I was slow I didn't see myself as an academic giant and That didn't really shock me. It just kind of confirmed in my mind that school was not for me I remember when I was in the fourth grade that The state of Kansas decided that the Amish could stop school at eighth grade And I thought you know, I will claim my Amish roots and stop my suffering as quickly as possible And so that was some of my early journey into academics and education but when I was in the seventh grade I had my first male teacher a godly man and The first teacher whoever apologized to me and the thing that he apologized to me about was something that He wouldn't have had to but it meant the world to me and School wasn't it wasn't that I was opposed to the children. I love children I've always loved children children have been just something really special to me from the time I was can remember from as far back as I can think of but it was it felt like School brought the cross to everything. It just was the thing that was so difficult And suddenly I realized if teaching meant that I could work with children the rest of my life maybe it was a cross worth bearing and For the first time I started thinking about teaching But then I yeah, it was it was quite a little journey and at one point I asked I prayed this this question to the Lord said God Where do you want me to teach? I've grown up in this community. You want me to teach here? Where do you want me to teach? It seemed like God responded that question more clearly than about any prayer. I prayed it wasn't audible, but it was so distinct It went like this I've given you many things. I've given you loving parents I've given you a loving church, and I've given you a loving community And if you really want to say thanks for that kind of a gift Give that gift to children who don't have it Wow, okay so my next question was so God where's that and I Didn't get as clear an answer to that but the answer that's just I never could feel at peace with any possibility besides a Major inner city or overseas and from then on That was just so clearly in my heart what God meant for my life, and it was so powerful that I From then on Considered nothing else Well that prayer eventually took me to New York City And I've been there ever since that was in 1997 and this is 24 years later And in that period of time the Lord blessed me with a wonderful wife three wonderful children and We have lived there ever since Brooklyn, New York is The home of our children and I've heard it said that when you go to a new place The point at which you can really call it home is when you've got children who call it home When you've been transplanted especially to something very foreign and very different and so I would say there's a lot of truth to that This journey could could raise a lot of questions and honestly it did in me it's one thing to can I would consider myself an intense idealist and It's one thing to live out your ideals as a single it's a whole nother thing to live out that ideal as a Couple but it takes it even a step further when God blesses you with children and Then it takes you even a step further When you consider being in that setting that most might consider dangerous and Would they feel like at a certain point you need to bring your children back into the home community? because Well, they need to experience I guess there's a number of reasons I won't even explain all of those But as a father that that weighs heavily on a father's mind and it feels like an entirely different consideration than being an idealist as a single and It raises questions questions such as how safe is the city? How wise is it for a single visionary man to ask his new wife to live in a city like New York City for perhaps the rest of their productive life how advisable is it to raise children in this potentially dangerous setting especially through their teenage years and I Do have teenagers in the audience here, and I just felt like maybe at the end of this session It could be useful for them to answer some of these questions They might offer it from a more completely Child's perspective than as a father. I might be able to present it So at the very end I might if it's okay take the freedom to have them help me out in my in my presentation today and so this morning as we take a look at How do? Kingdom followers plant kingdom schools within a Church plant and I would propose that we should increasingly be thinking of church plants being where the majority of people are The cities and so I would take that to that level as at least a consideration. I Would just say You might say so so in talking about this. Why would we bring in? Children well, I would just say that families are probably in a church planning team Families are some of the most powerful Parts of a church planning team in presenting the gospel people may watch your children more than they watch you and they may deduct what Christianity means through what they see in your children as Much or maybe more than what you might have to say and so Children are an incredibly Significant part of a church plant and so if they are then how do we nurture them? How do we take care of the educational needs of our children if that's where God has called us to? minister How do we adequately care for the children that are in our care? Just Earlier this summer as I was doing a little painting project With some of our children and it was actually the same day that I got the phone call that my father had died But we were in the front porch. We're doing stuff together. We often do stuff together We usually eat our meals on the front porch together For several reasons. We don't have an air conditioner in our house. So it's in the summer. It's a lot cooler on the front porch than in the house But it feels like it's also a place to display to a watching world a family that enjoys being together for meals That's really had become an amazing rarity in our culture and It opens the door for interactions with people that are walking the streets like eating in our house wouldn't do and So we were out there and a Caribbean man walks by turns around and comes back and says you know, I've been watching your family ever since they were little babies and I've been watching the way they play together. I've been watching the kinds of play that they have so different from how most children in the neighborhood play and When I walk past your place, I feel a peace and I've recently discovered that I have leukemia and He ended up just talking a little bit about his own life journey but the thing that's shocked me was People are watching beyond what we have any idea and they notice children and I could give you another story, but I think I think I'd better leave that story But children are such a critical part of church planting and if they are how Do we continue that church planting effort in a setting that seems very dangerous? In a way that rightly and sufficiently really does protect and care for our children and And addresses their academic needs well Well, if you're going to start a church plant, there's probably just so many options that are available for education There's the option of homeschooling there's the possibility of developing a church school in that new church plant In the past often a boarding school was an option. I'm so thankful that that's increasingly Not an option feels like there's some really sad stories that come out of the boarding school option I just personally couldn't do that to my children. I don't think at least Not unless it was a very unique. I don't know. I haven't come up with it a Scenario bad enough that I would want to do that for my children yet. There may be that exception I don't know and then the public school and in some places around the world That is the only option that is legally allowed is the public school. So those are options that that Educational options that we can look at if we're we're developing a church plant and and we're thinking how do we Academically nurture our children. I think there's economic considerations If you're living on a shoestring budget as many missionaries are The most economical option is public school because it's free If you're looking purely at economics The next most economical, I would say would be homeschooling. I'd say the church school is the most expensive one And so how big a role should economics play in this journey of Education for your children, but maybe there's issues even bigger than economics. I suggest there are Another question to take a look at and I'm not going to be answering some of this immediately because I want to kind of stir our thoughts as to What's there before we? Zero in on what might be the best options What priorities should a church school have the first year of a church plant? Or the second year or the 10th year for our Church plant in Brooklyn, New York the church school option didn't happen until about the 10th year of the church's Existence The vision there was that whole families within the church plant team Would provide homeschooling for their children that to at the same time you start this big adventure that this big venture of church plant if you have Besided also the the huge venture of starting a church school those are two pretty huge ventures and it's pretty hard to give them both the level of Focus and development that are needed and so in my personal journey in Brooklyn, New York I came at a 10 years after the church plant had started and I came not to primarily support the church planters children, but instead the church was seeing that as they were reaching out to the community they had Community families that were broken the community families of single parenting and just the sense how fair is it to? be Offering what we are to our children while a single parent isn't able to do that And the only option that is left is to place them in the public school where the Faith is already a very difficult thing to nurture and develop And so there was just a sense that this is not fair to our single parents within our church to not provide that for them and so for us The initial target audience was the single parent families within the church And I think that is a critical question for us to take a little look at as We consider the schooling options who? Who is our target audience? Is it the church plants team? Is it the church or is it the community or is it all three of those? What is the target audience? But I think a similar question could also be asked. What is your target audience for the church? Is your target audience for the church? your Church planning team is that your the extent of your target audience or it does your target audience extend To the people you're ministering to in the community and If that is the case that it extends to the people in your community Should your school also put perhaps extend to that? If it doesn't I think I think it's important to ask Why does it in the one case and not in the other something to think about at least? An additional question might be what is or who is your church for? What is the extent of its? Purpose is it is is it for your team your church your community in your neighborhood? in Considering our target audience for school in a church plant consideration Here are a few questions that I think are at least important to consider They may not answer every question, but I think they're important to think about What does it mean to as Jesus said suffer the little children to come on? How do you suffer the little children to come on to you if you have a closed door to them on Monday through Friday? What does it mean as Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself? What does it mean to snuff out the smoldering flax What about Jesus's words in Matthew when he said in as much as you have not done it to one of the least of these You have not done it unto me Children especially broken children Hold a special place in the heart of God and think about the passage where Jesus said that is Really serious when you offend a little one It would be better if there was actually a rope put around your neck and you were thrown into the midst of the sea Jesus takes personal offense when We offend a little one and then Jesus said in as much as you've done it onto the least of these You've done it unto me and so who are the least? I think there's a lot of ways in which children could qualify as the least They might be the least heard they might be the least Able to advance their interests they might be the least have the least experience They have the least options and resources Both their voice and their abilities are pretty limited Jesus also said He that would save his life will lose it But he who loses his life for my sake and the Gospels the same will find it In what ways does our school policy? In what ways is it driven out of a desire to save my life and to what extent do we see a willingness to risk and Our lives for the sake of the little ones Who very easily could be destroyed without our involvement and then just another Thing to consider what should be the academic Strategy if you are to develop a church school. I would suggest and this is not exactly how we did it We started with being available for grades 1 through 12. That is a pretty wide Feel to start out for the first year. The Lord was gracious. We survived But I think in many cases I I would see wisdom and maybe starting without with say K through 1 or 1 through 2 Whatever your lowest level is and maybe each year add another two grades and then in that way you're not needing to get teachers for the whole spectrum and You can grow the school. You can start seeing some of the Challenges you can start understanding the community on a smaller scale and you can build small and strong I could see wisdom in that kind of an approach I think we should see the church on a broader sense as a place of educational resource Not only just in the traditional educational sense but how do we How can we equip parents to? To care for their children. I know that brother Alan Roth He was the administrator of our school for many years and under whom I began teaching in Brooklyn, New York The challenge he placed on us as teachers was that I really believe you need to be connecting with the parents If you don't have the parents Then on the long haul you don't have the children and he said I would like to see you be in every home maybe once a quarter and every week being one or two homes Does that sound big? It sounded huge to me Especially my first year there trying to get used to a whole new urban setting and I confess We didn't do a very good job of that but I would also say he had an excellent idea and I wish we would have done a better job and I would say that the more that we see parents as a very significant part of the purpose of the school and that the more that we invest in parents The more that we are investing in the children in the long haul and that we don't just see it as a purely separated two entities kind of thing Brother Alan also had the The perspective that while children's ministries are great and they can provide certain levels of Influence and exposure that are good for children. He said I don't think any long-term church plant is going to really happen if that's the primary focus of a church plant and In my years of observing church plants. I see that to be true Investing in the actual families is Where you develop church not through primarily focusing on Kids clubs kid clubs are a lot easier. They're a lot more exciting. I think they may be kind of fill up our emotional tank of Satisfaction more easily and quickly. They're a lot easier to do But I don't think they're quite at the real core of our presence there Advancing the kingdom well if that's our soul Dependence and even when that is an active piece of it unless it's coupled with a fairly active involvement With the parents of those that we are ministering to then I think it's a very limited ministry. I Might just give you a little bit of a background of my own personal journey My first eight years were in a small public school a half mile from our home at that point our church didn't have a church school but Our principal was actually from our church And so it was about as close to a church school as you could have gotten without being a church school probably He hired all of the teachers and they were all professing Christians. We had devotions In every grade I think or at least prayer in every grade from first grade through eighth grade So first through eighth was in a in a small country public school. High school was in our church school I Then later went to junior college and then to a private Christian college In terms of teaching I taught two years in Canada before I went to college and then eight years in a public school in Kansas And in the past 24 years in Brooklyn and so Though I had really wanted to escape school as quickly as I legally could The last nearly 50 out of 60 years of my life have been in school either as a student or as a teacher And in some ways kind of both My wife has home schooled our children through all of their School years though there have been a few classes They've come to school for when they were just little toddlers. They'd come into my class for art class because I taught art and especially when I did ceramics and but I think most of it for several years and Then they also went there in high school for Spanish and for algebra to You those were the main classes that you had taken there so some people look at me and think I'm a really strange Mixture and I probably am but and they ask how could you who have invested in education? Education public and private all these years be homeschooling your children. Isn't that almost a betrayal of? Of what you're doing well it might depend how you defined betrayal or or I'm not sure what all but I will tell you that when I was just a third grader home schooling was first being pioneered in our community in Kansas and During that same time. I saw my little sister going to first grade and crying almost every day and dad who was the school bus driver would often come in to try to comfort her and The teacher didn't really like that. He felt she felt like she should just toughen up But I was just seeing all of that and I was thinking, you know God did design parents to nurture their children and I'm seeing my mom nurture my child and my sister like this teacher isn't and Silently without telling my parents or siblings or anyone else The ideal of homeschooling started to be birthed in my heart and mind and I just always dreamed that if I ever had children regardless what the other options were my wife would be my Teacher of our children just I just felt like that with the ultimate level of nurturing that that is possible on this side of heaven, so Being involved in education isn't because I'm this great Admire of public education or private education and and so to not have my children in those Institutions is a betrayal of my vocation. That's not really where it's at for me for me We are called to nurture children and the ways in which we can do that best. I believe God wants us to do and and I think sometimes it's conservative and Baptist. It's time for us to think a little outside the box on that front and Really think how can that best be done and ask God to show us how to do that? And so I'm kind of a strange mix of Having been involved in public and private Teaching but having my own children in homeschooling. So I don't know how you would Process that one, but I just expose that to you for you to realize that how your speaker has lived his life. I Have found it interesting that before COVID our children were a little bit cautious to tell their neighbors that they were being homeschooled and and even if they did Their neighbors would wonder what's that? COVID has done a wonderful work for the homeschooling front Since then if people ask them What is your educational experience there? Oh we homeschool. Oh, great And suddenly that is an honorable and acceptable option COVID did bring acceptance to that option it seems and so In conclusion before I have my children Talk a little bit about the risks of a church planting family being in a setting like an urban setting How those risks look to them as having personally experienced that? they They have more of an understanding of That world and then the world I did as a child growing up on a farm But I just thought it might be interesting to hear that but before we do that I would just like to to think a little bit about the heart of Jesus when Jesus said Suffer the little children to come to me and forbid them not But he doesn't stop there He makes it into a kingdom issue. He says for of such Is the kingdom of heaven and so I think it's right for us to really seriously think About children when we think about church plans How are we going to take care of them? But perhaps we need to think beyond just our own children How are we going to take care of the single parent families that come into our churches? Hopefully our heart is to care for the brokenhearted and for the the needy within the place He has called us to minister as a church plant and so if that brings Those additional needs, what are we going to do with those needs? How are we going to suffer those little children to come to Christ and not forbid them? How are we going to do that? What about our neighbors that we are reaching out to? How are we going to are we going to be open to caring for their children and? How do we risk I view the risks that? ministering to the local To our neighbors may bring and even the risks That that may place on our family and on our children. How do we look at risk? I think that is so important that in the last session I had talked about risk and there's an excellent book called reaching America by Gary Miller and Some of you may have read this book already excellent excellent book My daughter saw this this summer and quickly showed it to me and said dad We got to get this book and she says Gary Miller is my hero and I was glad to hear that of course when she said that How could I keep from saying? Yeah, let's get a book. So we got the book and as we were driving to Kansas where I Grew up to visit there. She was reading excerpts out loud, and I was saying boy that that's really good I should have that as a part of my talk, but Gary Miller raises an interesting question he talks about risk and how we Deal with risk and which risks are worth embracing and which risks are wrong to embrace and He suggests that we actually aren't that scared of certain risks and that actually some of the risks We aren't scared about Jesus calls us to be pretty scared about That's a little sobering and Then he goes on to say the risks Jesus calls us to are sometimes the risks that we are least willing to take I Think as we consider church planning with this question about Risk is something we really need to take a look at What are the risks that Jesus considers worth our taking and What are the risks that Jesus does not consider worth our taking and does our life represent that? I'm here to say that if it doesn't then the verse where he said he that would save his life will lose it But he who loses his life for my sake and the gospel the same will find it is very true And so I just challenge you to maybe daily ask God What risks do you want me to take today? And you know We often I guess it's the only way we can do it. We look at risks through our mental Framework our perception And yet our perception of risk and yet our perceptions so often are super faulty and they really need to be confronted with Jesus's perception of What is really the true risk? So I'm going to at this point before opening it up for questions give our two oldest an opportunity to Communicate about Some of the questions that typically are raised about children being raised in an urban setting in a place of What would from our local and rural communities seem like a risky place and maybe too risky a place And so I'm going to just Ask them to to share what they have prepared So yesterday afternoon we were at the buyers conference center where we're sleeping And dad was preparing for his message and I said we're sitting around and we ended up talking About his message and I was like, oh you should share your thoughts and so Here are my thoughts that came to me last night So I was born dad and mom got married in 2000 were there and I was born in 2002 There and have been there all my life. I'm 19 now and I plan to stay there for for Siebel future. I doubt my whole life, but I don't plan to move away too soon And so this topic kind of like raising raising children the city or Because the way has affected me Like when I think about it, it really causes a lot of like deep feelings rise in my heart, I guess the last Year or few years it's for something that as children have been like thinking like thinking through and the way we relate with cousins and friends who are not from the city and The other way it has formed us and made us Have a different perspective on certain areas of life as to those didn't grow up there So there's just so many things you could talk about this probably just a huge range But I'll share with you three effects That growing up in the city has at least has had on my life and I assume on many children have The first one is that living in a city gives children the opportunity to interact with people that are very different in themselves so for me, I grew up and we still live in a community that is Majority Hispanic and so there are very few white people there and It's starting to change a little bit, but especially even now especially when we were younger. There was almost no one that was white there except for some people from our like some others from our church and so I learned what it was to be a minority and you know, it's it gives me that perspective that growing up in a traditional minority community wouldn't have given me and just I guess sometimes feeling like how it feels to be a minority and Kind of feel a little bit down or kind of love Like for example something that was a little more recent There was this person that would call me white boy And I told this person I don't like when you call me white boy Would you like if I called you black and their gender I could just see the anger rising up Just the thought of me saying that they would still call me white boy and I was like told them repeated times I do not like when you call me that please don't call me that and They eventually stopped but there I experienced what it feels like to Be that different person who's not normal in the community and These differences also play out in our church. So we have we have different people or people from different ethnicities in our church besides Traditional Monday night and so one example is carrying meals. So we'll have like meals of everybody brings food to church to be Like very non-traditional night food. I love the food and one one interesting fact So we had this tradition at church you bring your food and then you don't expect to take it home So I go after we eat You can take any food that's there home with you and so it's great and then already Three years ago. I was at my grandparent's church and that he carried me up. I love will be pies I just took a week by with me home. I'm like I was I don't take food home. You just eat what's when you're there and Anyways, so I guess it's example of different cultures and then one man I just really want to tell you guys about and Just his story can take a long time to tell but anyways, his name is Marcus and He got to know him when I was just a little toddler and he was a man who was semi-homeless abandoned house and Drunk he would collect cans and bottles a little bit of money Anyways, and he would terrorize The VBS women VBS in the park. Anyway, so we got to know him and he became a family friend over the years and he would stop in any time of the day and Eat food with us if we're eating supper you're offering separate us and so that really That really gives an in-depth view of interacting with someone that's very different than ourselves that he would When he wasn't it when he wasn't drunk He was just the nicest guy and he would gladly help with any projects around the house But when he would come dead drunk He was a very different man and speak very fowly and anyways. Yeah, he he passed away two years almost three years ago now. I Was really hard Yeah, it really gave me an experience of interacting with someone and coming to love someone who's not a Christian And he was a drunk and he was just very different from us And my second point is Living in the city causes children as they grow older to make a deliberate choice as to who they will serve I feel like in the city there's a starker contrast between the way of light following Jesus and the way of darkness and and So it forces you to choose Along this way or that way and there's not as much of a middle grayish area And so we've had to stand alone a lot and sometimes I've gone so tired standing alone but I think in the end it's good for us because It may it forces us to make the choice Who will I serve will I follow the way of light and Yeah, follow the teachings of my parents or will I Do things that are not right to Try to fit in with those around me And kind of going along with that My last point living in the city gives children a Unique perspective that is both valuable and challenging To deal with so it's almost like and this is the same for for Children growing up in like third world or other countries You almost feel caught between two worlds And so like for example, you know, even though we live in the city You kind of did things a little more the country way I'm gonna call it that least from the people who live there they're perspective of us So we were blessed with the rarity of having an empty side lobby inside our house that was owned by the same landlord as the house That we live in and so we fixed up into a backyard have a little backyard there And so when I was about like eight or ten or somewhere in that age range in the summertime I had a weater and I was weeding some of like grass and weeds that were out by the sidewalk And I was barefoot and it was hot summer day Also, this man in a truck comes and he pulls over gets out and yells at me and it's like where's your dad or whatever And that I go and get dad and that comes out and this man is angry because I'm there we eating I'm barefoot and I guess she thinks This is not safe for a child to be doing and so You know those that grew up on farms and ever this is just normal, but for there and it was normal for me But there it's it's just they can't understand That a child you're working like this Then from the other side when I like go visit family in Kansas or wherever They just can't comprehend how I could Love the city or how I could call it home and it is home for me Even though there's things I love about the country now like man out of the country I would love to do this, but that's not my home right now my home's in the city and They just can't get it and so it's kind of like you know Where where do I belong because I live in the city, but I'm not quite like the people who Live there, so even though I was born there. They still don't consider me from the city But yeah, I don't live in the country, so I'm not from the country and so that That can kind of be trying to deal with sometimes but it gives a unique perspective that is different and I Think it's it's really good to have that and I just don't really respond to the common ejection the data was mentioning the city isn't safe to raise a family and So one one thought the guy likes to say is Along these lines wherever God calls you is the safest place to raise your family And so the question has to be asked What is safe safe from evil influences? The country needs Jesus every bit as much as the city does Now the sin might be more a little more obvious in the city That same sin thrives in the country. It might be a little more under the rug, but it's still there Also, I would strongly argue That with the rise of social media Worldly influences are increasingly just as strong in the city or in the country as in the city and almost What you would see in the city and say oh, that's worldly that is being made Nowadays through or is being formed through social media and so the things That once just kind of rise in the city thought that are now being spread worldwide to the same lingo or or whatever Let's only give you an example of this So last month Sarah and I were with the traditional midnight youth group conservative youth group in a rural setting in the country and So we were out in the evening gone some food and then went to a park and we're just hanging out the park and a few of the youth have learned this dance from tick tock and decided they wanted to teach All those that wanted to learn this was something that Sarah and I had never seen before and and as we observed it like yeah, we don't use social media and You know, we we know about it from people who are not who are not anti-baptist But to see actually the anti-baptist youth group acting like this was we'd never it was just we never said before And so we had to think what would our non-annabaptist friends in the city? Think they would be like if we can think of people if they would have seen what went on They'd be utterly shocked like even though they participate in those behaviors themselves They don't expect us to be that way or live that way act that way They might even want us to they might wish like this less if they would see us Live or act like that the conclusion am I saying that the city is the only good place to raise a family? No, I'm not saying that but it is a good place to raise a family if that's where God is calling you to and So I just challenge you all Go where God is calling you. Was that being a city on the country? And if you follow his what if you walk in his will Not only will he guide your path? But he'll also guide the paths of your children So I'm just gonna make this really quick But one story that I thought of when we were talking about this last night When we were in eighth grade and we're studying New York State history And then we were also doing New York City history And I remember one day mom said here to me and Isaac look at this paper And it was a map of the boroughs and the communities of New York City and it had Places with green yellow and red areas with the green being the safest and the red being the most dangerous Guess what? Cypress Hills is very very dangerous to live in and we thought I was where we live in we thought it was so funny because we're like It's not even dangerous. What are they talking about? Of course, you have to lock your car doors You have to do that everywhere in the city. So it just reminded me of that. I think Last night I was thinking I think often what Satan does is he makes what's really risky look harmless Like it's not a big deal But the actual worthwhile risks they might be risk, but they're worthwhile. He makes them look irresponsible With the whole thing of bad influence I've actually found that having a much closer look at sin has been an example of what you don't want because you don't only see just the glamorous side of sin you see the results of sin and Yeah, with even a lot of immorality you see what comes out of it You see the broken families and you realize there's no way when I'm the age of these people do I want to be dealing with What they're dealing with? Yeah, like Isaac said standing alone has definitely been a big thing but I think since we started it from young up it has strengthened us and also like Isaac was saying There might be that our friends from the city who haven't Embrace the way of life that we have they don't actually expect us to participate in the activities that they participate in and so it might be lonely, but it's not um the level of temptation that it might seem like it would be and um as I was visiting our family who's in a more traditional Mennonite setting and Through different experiences one including the night at the park. I was realizing that you know in the smaller issues the issues were Personal or people or were families land in different areas I think for me it's actually easier to stick to those choices that maybe dad has made for us or that I personally feel In the city because I'm already different and they don't actually expect me to whereas in a traditional community They um would think Well, we're kind of we're all Christians anyway, and we're all like really the same So it's kind of awkward if I'm telling someone who's just like me. Well, I'm not going to do that But we're already different in the city. So it's not really a big deal and um like Isaac was saying I think social media You know some of the things that friends in the country participate in Like he was saying my friends in the city They would like make fun of me if I would do that because they do it but they think it's really weird if I would do it and Sometimes it's annoying, but it's like, you know, it actually keeps me, you know, not being a part of social media And not being a part of that culture. They don't really expect me To participate in those things and so we're still friends. We still relate But in certain areas of life They don't want me to and I think one thing that I've really appreciated about the city is that Worldly versus non-worldly the contrast is much More vivid whereas in the country Some things might seem now this is generalization, of course but you know sometimes things that I would see as worldly I see my friends participating in in the country because I don't think they see the people that are doing that in the city like if Everyone who's participating in a certain say dance or use of slang is like you it doesn't seem like a problem But if you see someone who's doing it that you don't want to be like It gives you more of an incentive to not do that yourself So, um, yeah, I guess those are just my thoughts Living in the city has definitely had challenges But I wouldn't trade it for anything because of the perspective it has given me And because of the person that I think it has helped me to become There's definitely been challenges, but I'm thankful for it as well All right. Well, I'm just going to open it up for any responses either to what they had to say Or what I had to say as just a quick little wrap up and so, um Just open it up if this discussion has raised any questions in your mind that you just welcome a little bit of conversation on Raise your hand and see what we can do and interacting with that Forgive me if I'm overlapping. It's what you already shared But what do you say about friendship evangelism? You see this approach is used a lot in city ministry You spend a lot of time with people maybe aren't real real prepared for the gospel um Pros and cons anything real quick on that. Yeah Excellent question and honestly I think there is an array of tools that The believer has in his Toolbox and As a carpenter we I'm not a avid carpenter, but I love woodworking There are times when one tool really does work better than another tool. There's um and I don't see jesus for instance Dealing with every person in exactly the same way. There are times when it seems like jesus Very compassionately um Interacted with a person and other times when he was rather forceful Um, and I see some who are total Friendship evangelism advocates and there's nothing else but that I feel really uncomfortable with that And I think it can actually be a cop-out when that's the case And then I see others who would be kind of like a great comfort kind of Pitch in the face kind of Approach and if you don't do that Exclusively for every interaction you really don't understand how to share the gospel and I feel uncomfortable with that one too um and It feels to me like there were times when jesus used both um, I Rather than offer one or the other as the exclusive answer I think if we can ask god to show us in each interaction what he would have us to say That might be the the safer road um, maybe two questions here um One on the school um, so you just mentioned the school being started as a Primarily an outreach to The single single parent families and that type of thing Was that something then that most of the people of the church and the outreach there sent their children to as well? or the focus remained on on um single parent families and that type of thing or not and then secondly, um Relating more to your children and their interactions um was Maybe a question on how much interaction did your children have as far as playing with other neighbor children and that type of thing? um Maybe especially even at an early age um Are the things you did to limit that? Obviously children are very impressionable, especially at young ages and the influences they are around shape them a lot Yeah, you have several really good questions and your last one I might just start with and then I may have to get you to Refresh me on the other questions, but the whole question of how do you deal with? Neighborhood children in a way that Really cares for them and yet doesn't put your children at unnecessary risk We never we never had our children go into neighbors homes But our our home and our backyard was always open to neighbors uh, it felt to me like If it's on our turf then it can have our expectations and our observation and our protection If it goes into a neighbor's home Who knows what could happen there? That's worked well for us um we At one point we had a big rope swing in the backyard and that really Caught the fascination of the neighborhood children and they all wanted to come But I with that said you know what I'd love to have you in the backyard And you're welcome there as soon as you bring your your parents one of your parents To us and we can meet and I can show them the risks that are back here And I can make sure that they're comfortable with risk because the rope swing does present some risks and looking back Sometimes I wonder I was totally sane in some of those risks, but uh, I'd grown up loving dangerous big rope swings in the barn and And I thought our children should have that joy and and the neighborhood children just wanted that joy also But I felt like I need to do that and that ended up that was so foreign to the to the city culture that adults talk with each other But when one person finally got their parent to come and talk with us Suddenly there were all sorts of other parents and they came to my child just dragging me here What you got here that show them and they said oh, yeah, that's no problem They gave me any trouble just let us know and it developed a relationship then with the parents that wouldn't have happened otherwise And that worked really well What were the other questions On the school and the um the emphasis of the school did it remain as uh for single parents or was that uh That's a really good question and honestly My heart has remained there, but the reality is that as more people join the church That wasn't necessarily a vision that everyone else embraced and But here is one of the dilemmas that can come out of if it if it's more than that The more that traditional anabaptist families send their children there the more they want curriculum that really tailors to their children's needs and Often that's not necessarily What would tailor best to a broken child's needs and so which are you going to tater to And since my heart was there for the broken ones and I felt that we had another option for the other families My sympathies went deepest With the broken and yet there came a point where I realized maybe that was too strong in me Where somebody said so do you consider my child is less valuable than the neighborhood And yeah, that's a good question to you So there's some tensions that go with the school journey. Um, there came a point to where Another administrator we've had a kind of a different view as to as to the homeschool option and And the purpose statement at the beginning of our handbook shifted some with that Um, and so it's been a journey in its process and the bigger your your church the more you wrestle with Which ideal to place at the top Great question