 Yes. And Athena has reminded me a couple of times to once the meeting starts to also remind folks that the meeting is being recorded. So I will do that again once we call the meeting to order, which you good with me doing that now, Jennifer? Yes. Okay, great. I'm trying to let Dr. Shabazz and it's not moving over. All right. Well, while you do that, I am going to call to order the December 19th meeting of the African Heritage Reparation Assembly at 203 p.m. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. And this meeting is being recorded. So welcome everyone welcome Dr. Shabazz. So before we're going to do our sound check and I just started that but Dr. Shabazz didn't respond. So let's start with Dr. Rhodes, can you hear us and can we hear you. Definitely can hear you and you can hear me. Yes, good. And Yvonne. Yes, I can hear you and you can hear me with my sore voice. Well, thank you for being here. Alexis. Alexis recording for duty. Okay, and Dr. Shabazz. Yes. Awesome. So as I said, Miss Bridges will not be here. I'm not sure about Hala may, may be coming, but I, I'm not sure. So we'll just keep our eyes out. And I'm going to do a quick review of our agenda and then just pause to see if there are any member comments before we move into things. And Jennifer, can you be heard and, and, and hear us. I can hear you. Can you hear me. Yes. All right. So today it looks like we do not have any minutes that we will be approving. We will be following backup on our engagement and consultation campaign, including an update on our list, our listening session. We will also be discussing our community survey and have some updates on that. And then you all should have received something in your email, a recommendation that came from the AACE at UMass. And so if you haven't received that for some reason, please let me know it is part of the public packet as well. And we'll have a chance to have a discussion about that. And we haven't really come to any sort of conclusion on the League of Women Voters Racial Justice Committee, the collaboration with that group. So I did want to follow up so that I could get back to Meg on that. I know we discussed it in part last week, but I don't recall that we came to a solid conclusion on that one. So let me just pause and see if there are any general member comments right now before we move into the agenda. All right. Yes, Alexis. Well, I guess I did not receive the AACE recommendations. But if it's like included in this packet, yeah, I see it here. Okay, so I don't, I don't need it sent again. Okay, perfect. I do want to make sure though why maybe you didn't receive it. I can look into that after Alexis I just want to make sure you are receiving everything that I'm, I'm sending so maybe it went into. Let's see here. Did everyone else receive it? Definitely. Um, Alexis I'm just looking at the email now and I, I sent it to Alexis at Amherst media.org and that was on December 12 at 2 59pm. So it's in the packet now but just so if you want to make sure getting messages. It was on a thread and they sometimes get bunched and you don't. Hi, welcome, Hala. Can you hear us? Okay. Okay. Yes, can hear you. All right. Any other general comments before we move into the agenda. Okay. So I'm going to share my screen I would like to show you. I have been working with Jennifer Athena and Brianna about the upcoming listening session. There were a lot of pieces that we needed to work through to ensure that we were not in violation of open meeting law and that we were setting up the right sort of meeting. So just to give you a quick overview about the way that's going to work is it's been set up as let me pull up the engage Amherst page here. Can you all see my screen. Okay. So, you will see that we've created a new postcard here. That includes our special guest Congressman Jim McGovern. It includes the day and time obviously what we've decided to do is to direct folks to this engage Amherst page where the webinar link will be available here. So we didn't put the webinar link on to any of the material materials that will be circulating, but essentially this is going to be set up as a webinar so if you think about a town council meeting it's going to be set up like a town council meeting is. We all have panelists invites, and so we'll be panelists along with the congressman initially at least. And then everybody else is going to be in the audience, and when a person would like to make when and if a person would like to make a comment during the listening session component. They'll raise their hand and they will be brought in and they will be seen and heard if they choose to be so they can turn their camera off. But if they would like to be seen they will be promoted to a panelist so that they can be seen and heard. And then when they're finished with their comment, they'll go back into the audience. This will also be getting streamed through various different channels, including Amherst media, YouTube, Facebook, so that that those pieces are all in place. So, right now what we really need to focus on is getting this circulated Brianna is going to be putting this out to all of her media channels she's got an entire list it's going to be on the community calendars. I believe Brianna said that she would set it up so that folks who are subscribed will receive an alert that the event is happening I see Jennifer shaking her head. These will go out to all of the media. And then of course we'll be sending it to our lists through the black assembly of Amherst, Massachusetts through our own portal and the list that we have there. And then the running list of folks that I that I have and you all can send this out to your folks too. So that we can. I think we really want to try to get obviously as many folks to attend this session as possible. And so our job right now I think is really to get the news out. So let me just pause and see if there are any questions about the format or about getting this publicized questions thoughts ideas. Okay. And then I'm going to continue to share my screen here. You should see now a Twitter feed. Sorry, I never thought I would bring Twitter on to one of our meetings here but this and Dr. Shabazz I'm looking for your input here. Have you seen this here. This one pager on the five injuries of slavery defined. Yes, I have. Okay. And do you endorse this does this feel I believe it comes right from and cobra. Yes, that is the encobra list of five injuries. Yes. Okay. So if everybody's comfortable with this, we can use this as the basis for our initial brief educational program that will offer at the beginning of the listening session. And I think what we want to do is really allow this to be a prompt for people who may want to make comment regarding any of these injury areas. Peoplehood, education, health, criminal punishment and wealth and poverty. And I did hear from Hala that Hala would like to cover health if that if nobody else, if that works for everybody else. And so I would imagine that others will choose one of these areas and will be able to offer some brief comments on an area that feels either resonant to you or that you just have an interest in discussing or are willing to discuss. So does anyone want to call out what they which one of these they would be interested in covering. And I'm wondering Dr. Shabazz if you would want to so I'm thinking it would be. Sort of be moderating things so that there are six of six of six remaining members. If Dr. Shabazz wants to give an overview of the five injury areas potentially and then individual members can choose one of the areas and I see Alexis his hand is raised. I don't it. Maybe I'm wrong was Dr. Rose gonna. I think Dr. Rose was didn't raise his hand but I think that he was about to speak so I can just I wanted to see the rest of those five injury areas. I can only see part of them so you can scroll down. Sure. Yeah, so the one that I would definitely want to do is education. Awesome. That's great. And Alexis. Well, I would like I'm interested in personhood as well as wealth and poverty in that order but if somebody else feels ways about either of those. I was going to volunteer for wealth and poverty. Great. Okay. So that leaves Dr. Shabazz or Ms. Bridges with criminal criminal punishment. Dr. Shabazz what's your sense on that. Well, so again I was happy to just limit myself to if you per your request for just overview, but the book so but wherever I can fill in is fine. Yeah. Okay, I'll talk to Ms. Bridges and see, you know, in terms of engagement what what she might be interested in and there are other components of the program as well so I know that you've expressed criminal punishment as something of interest to you as well Dr. Shabazz so. Yes, Dr. Rhodes. I would like for us when we do this. All of our comments even the introductory ones that we limit ourselves to a maximum of three minutes. Otherwise, sorry, I had to grab a glass of a cup of water but yes that sounds reasonable. It could go on and on and we need to limit ours so that we can leave a lot more time for the audience to respond. Absolutely. And I will send you all a blank slide deck with our logo and all of that kind of stuff so that we'll be able to. I'm going to stop the share because I'm noticing that we have an attendee who has their hand raised. And so we have a couple attendees with their hand raised so I'm going to just we'll sort of finish this out for a second and then I'm going to call for public comment and allow the two folks who have their hand raised to make public comment. Any other, any other questions or comments about this piece so far. The only thing I'm wondering is, since the injury areas are more or less a prompt for discussion and discussion can can range. The only other thing that occurred to me is again and sort of depending on our strategy here in terms of the remaining months before our report is due of sessions is whether to maybe only highlight one. And, you know, we can share all five but just highlight one and then open, open the floor. You know, a little quicker. I agree with with Dr roads in terms of, you know, the, the purposes to listen should be more about listening. And really, if we did focus on one, we could even kind of cure it, you know, get an advanced word out for particular community members or constituencies that may have ideas pertinent to that final thing I'll say is, Wealth poverty, as I have understood it through many and corporate discussions and whatnot hinges a lot on the idea of disparities in in land and home ownership. And so I just would would kind of note, note that that point it's not the only way to conceive of wealth and poverty and the wealth gap but but for most people, the ability to you know, coming to own land coming to own your own own home is is the main form of wealth building and equity building so I just highlight that as well. So what do other, what do other members think about focusing doing a broad overview of all five, and then focusing this one up on one area for this session. Alexis. I guess I'm wondering how I'm, this is not me being against it at all, I think that it's nice to kind of like have a scope. I guess I'm wondering how many of these we're going to have before our time is up, and also how often we're going to have them. Yeah, that's that's I guess that's my question. I think that's a really good question and I think we. We had originally thought about having a listening session to cover each area, but I think that we are going to need to have listening sessions that cover other things like eligibility criteria and things like that. So my concern is my preference would be that we do all five but keep them short to prompt and then maybe. If we notice Dr Shabazz that, like we did in the first listening session a lot was coming up about education and that one. If we notice that something is moving or flowing in one direction, then maybe that would be the opportunity for a member to offer additional information about that particular injury area. I think last time what happened is people did eventually warm up and speak but there wasn't really a framework or prompt for folks and so they didn't really know what to speak to. And a lot of times I think people like these injury areas we've been looking at them for months but some people don't even know where they where the injuries occurring or that area of injury even exists, you know, depending on where you're going. So, does that work for everybody if we, if we sort of do a general quick overview of each and then tap into the room and the flow and see where things are going and if we're heading in one direction we can sort of follow up on one more in the in the meeting. Dr Shabazz, would you, do you, is there one that you would like us to. Do you have one in mind that you thought maybe we should focus on or was just a different structure. No, really, more question of strategy I think Alexis's question does still come back to us in terms of, you know, thinking through the coming months, January, February, March, April, May, we need to kind of be in final writing mode, proofreading and, and getting ready to, to, to present to, you know, meet our deadline. And so, really, it's just a matter of thinking through, you know, that that piece of our work of, of sharing this process soliciting input, and, you know, toward, toward formulating the, the report and the recommendation areas so I think it still goes towards that. And, you know, and again, for, for that matter, I, I don't know that eligibility is an entire session to, to hear from the community on. I think that is has been it been endemic in our work throughout. I think if we need to go ahead and amongst ourselves, you know, establish a, a particular, you know, vote a certain direction on it. And then from there, you know, we can find ways to, to channel that and to see if there are, you know, specific inputs about about the question of eligibility, but you know, just to recap, my view is eligibility is going to depend on the nature of the specific recommendation. And secondly, as we see in Providence, Rhode Island, it has to do with the funding source, and the question of whether we get state approval for home rule to, to be able to make disbursements on an injury, an injury specific in terms of black reparations as a public purpose. If we don't get that, if that is hung up, then there will be no, no distributions, you know, on, on, on, on an injury basis. Or, or, you know, it will stand significant legal challenge, but also in the case of Providence, as I read it, it has to do with the color of money, the money in that case being designated straight out of ARPA funds, federal government funds. And, and so their, their, their determination was that it had to be made available to any and all people in Providence and Rhode Island, not, not specific to any relation, not barring anyone from at least requesting, you know, some type of benefit from the reparations, whatever reparations program they come to offer. So I, I think these are complex and complicated questions, but I don't think we need to have a hearing on them per se, except for unless until we actually have a, a position we've thought through, we've, we've put forward and then people are able to, to respond directly to that before our final, our final report in that area or recommendation and area in that goes out. I just don't think there's, there's not much point to just having a general session on that, that question alone. And particularly without us having a going, going ahead and taking a ratified written out position on it that people could react to. Excellent. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz. Okay. So, it sounds like we are wanting to think through strategy for the next several months in terms of our listening sessions and whether we'll have enough listening sessions to cover each of these injury areas and maybe wanting to think through what our future listening sessions will look like at another meeting. So is, is everyone okay though with having a general overview of the injury areas at the upcoming listening session, or would folks prefer to focus in on one and if so which one would we want to focus on. Yes, Dr. Rhodes. You know, I believe, having all the injury is open for discussion with service well. I do agree with Dr. Shabazz in terms of having a relationship to eligibility that that that would shoot away our determination. And that that determination, then be one that is a draft determination, and then put out for general discussion among the population. I also think that there are, there's the whole idea of the survey and the results of that that also could impact what we are doing and where we're going and etc. So I think those things need to be held in our head for consideration. Absolutely. Okay, that sounds like a great plan. Alexis. Forgive me if I sound like I'm out of the loop. So, I guess when it comes to our subsequent meetings. I think what the other meetings, like if they weren't about because I think that it's a good idea I agree with Dr. Rhodes in that like the, the attendees whoever we're listening to can kind of like guide the conversation based on the criteria or like the framework that we're giving them, or like the, the areas of harm I think that that's great. Then right, like, if we're not talking about because I agree with Dr. Shavaz I don't think that we need a whole one about eligibility especially since I've been like sort of listening to discussions that have been happening in California with their reparations, and the biggest like piece of contention that I've even seen about eligibility has been about like folks with enslaved ancestry and folks with that. That's the biggest piece and I haven't even really heard that conversation happening over here. So, if, if it's not, if the meetings are not about specific areas, or maybe it's about one that like, you know, didn't get touched or whatever. Like, is there other pieces that we like have to get to before we give that recommendation that we haven't discussed yet. That's a good question. Dr. Rhodes, do you want to address that question or do you, was this a new thought? I think that we need to refer back to the charge itself from the council. And there are like four, four or five things in there that are specific that they're going to be looking for in our report. One of them is eligibility. We need to mention that. And given that they did mention that, we need to keep that front and center in terms of how we answer that question. I think that if we use these listening sessions to gain that kind of information, in addition to the survey, in addition to other methods of getting getting feedback and, and then responding back out. I think that's our roadmap should be from this point on, not only is gathering the information that from the public. We need to consider input that will allow us to address those areas that are going to be a part of our final report. And we need to have those areas covered through public dialogue, A and B, through our own deliberations. Thank you Dr. Shabaz Alexis. Thank you. Thank you. I, this, right, got to go back to the, to the roots, which is extremely helpful. Thank you for pulling this up. So I see that, like, you know, we've, we've been developing the funding streams. And I guess we, we have one, which is kind of honestly like sort of like a, like a soft funding stream it feels like because it's nothing about it is sort of like, definitely, right. It doesn't say in any way that money is definitely going in every year or every cycle to this fund. And being that the other pieces eligibility which is, I agree is very important. The other piece I think that like we haven't gotten to yet because we're still talking about the areas of harm is the repair piece. This might be the most maybe disagreed upon area amongst people because so many people feel like it's, it's different things, right. So I almost feel like the repair piece is going to take is going to be the biggest piece. If we are choosing to, you know, have listening sessions for this. Because repair looks so different for so many other people. So I guess I'm, I'm wondering if anybody has ideas about that. Thank you, Alexis. So I agree with her maybe I would like to see us cover all of the areas and to Alexis's comments about harm. How again I think it this go a lot of this goes back to how many of these we're going to have this is clearly a listening session. And so I'm also feeling like it'd be great. Once we have folks in the room, like you said before Michelle to kind of gauge who's in the room and how they can contribute to any one particular topic but to keep all the topics fresh in the room because I think other folks might identify with the, you know, like with the wealth and progress or with the, with the health one, I think everyone has their own area where they've had, especially people of color where they've had personal things happen and it's usually more than one area, and that's the area that they're keenly in tune with, you know, so I do agree. I think that it would be great to present them all. I'm not sure that we need to present each one separately I think that takes a lot of time. I think the overview is what we want to focus on, and then just dive into conversation and see where the conversation goes. Yes, a moderator is really great to have. Definitely. I don't know you said last time there wasn't one right. Okay, so we're running it like a meeting of it's being posted like a meeting so I opened the meeting, as I would open any meeting, and then we went and each member said something brief. What we didn't do was offer any particular framework for folks to consider. So we just sort of said, we're here to listen, where this time we're going to offer these injury areas so that folks have something that they can sort of connect to potentially and be able to speak to. I definitely agree that we should just cover them all, because we'll have this opportunity actually we'll find out from talking to people which ones are at the top of their list. You know they're all important, but there's going to be I'm sure there's going to be two or three that rise to the top of the list and maybe we end up talking about those longer anyway. So instead of dictating what we talk about let's just see. Yeah. Yep. Dr. Rhodes. Just, I just wanted to make sure that we look at number two in terms of an allocate an allocation plan. That we need to keep that front and center in our mind because that is something that's going to be critical a critical part of our report. Yes. I'm going to take this down. And I see we have a lot of hands in the audience today. So I'm going to call for public comment. Ivan is your hand still up. Sorry. Oh, no worries. I got it. Okay, so I'm going to read the public comment statement. Let's see here. During the public comment period I will recognize members of the public when called on please identify yourself by stating your full name pronouns and address residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes. We will not necessarily be engaging in a conversation with public comment speakers but we will be listening very carefully. Sometimes if there's a specific question that comes up we can respond to that but generally will be listening and taking notes. If you would like to make public comment please go ahead and raise your hand using the raise hand function. And I will Jennifer will move you into the room in the order that your hand has been raised and then we will move on from there. Jennifer are you I saw that your cameras offer you still there. Oh, you're on it. Okay. Welcome to our first public commenter and if you are able to unmute you can go ahead. We are not hearing you right now if you're speaking. So I see you listed as prime freedman and we cannot hear you. Does anyone else here prime freedman. Okay. Okay. I think it will come back to you. So you can work out whatever audio, maybe having an audio issue, but we will not we will definitely come back to you. So Jennifer, if you want to bring in the next that would be great. And welcome. Yep. My name is Jaylin I am a Boston resident Massachusetts resident. I just want to make clear that I am a person that work with the NDC and Antonio Edwards and we just actually created the Boston Task Force for reparations. And it's actually, and you can go read articles about us, I am the youth. So I've been out here doing this work. And I also want to make clear that HR 40 is not reparations because it's not lineage base. And I can tell you this from right now because I saw you Michelle pull up the tweet from Narkin and Cobra and us black Americans who are just us descendants of American child slavery. We're talking about the 40 a million emancipated slaves of 1865. This needs to be lineage base and you guys need to get the senses on how many us descendants of American child slavery and the only reason why I have to be specific is because we are different from black immigrants such as Haitians and Danians, Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. We are a different ethnic group of people so when people are calling us people of color, black and brown, and by pop, that is highly disrespectful because we are our own individual ethnic group. I want to be acknowledged and I do think that this needs to be lineage base because you would be giving away our money to immigrants who came over here willingly we came over here forcefully because we were sold by our own people. So I just want that to make clear that HR 40 and we also have been having problems in other states to getting their task force going because of Narkin and Cobra are going behind our backs they're being sneaky. They're undermining us and they're trying to push their agenda for pan Africanism for immigrants to have their reparations here when they need to get their reparations from who to enslave them. For example, Africa has the African Union Caribbean has Kara Khan, they need to go ask them for reparations. I've been out here doing this work with the grassroots and with the elders and I thought this is very important to express that HR 40 is not reparations we have worked with Chris from CJ and California Task Force reparations and you guys can clearly see by reading it, it is lineage base. And we have been here since 1865 and prior to that even older so I'm asking you guys to review the format and make it lineage base and actually see in the area. So who's actually a US descendant of chattel slavery, not descendant of the slave, because when you say descendant of the slave, you're allowing any other ethnic group to come here and receive reparations from the US United States government when that belongs to us. Boston and Massachusetts we have been here black people everywhere and they deserve reparations and I'm going to tell you right now. I know for immigrants that go to UMass Amherst and there's nothing but white supremacy on that campus. That's another thing and I also want to be clear that you guys need to collect the right information from the census and actually seeing what residents are US descendants of chattel slavery, because if you give this money away to the immigrants that is allowing them to come on to our soil and get money that is owed to us because we have a debt owed and that is now and it's not later and I just wanted to land my plane. And if you also want to send me your email I can you know we can have conversations I can get you connected with I can show you some of the work I have done. We have articles written about us how we got the Boston Task Force for reparations just passed in the city. I'm also on Twitter so I just wanted to land my plane on that and if you guys can send me your contact information we can also have some discussions for sure. Thank you Jaylin and I will once public comment is completed. I'm going to pull up our contact page so that you can send us an email and then that will give us the ability to be in contact and of course you're welcome to come to any of our meetings and speak in public comment at any time so thank you very much for being here. Thank you for having me thank you for listening I appreciate that thank you. Absolutely. All right, so we are bringing in our next public commenter. And you are free to go. Can I be heard clearly. Yes. Thank you. First I want to say good at HR and I want to thank you so much for prioritizing the recommendation of UMass ace to put place it on to your agenda this afternoon. Again, I just want to say, we look forward to future engagement with your process and just on behalf of American descendants of child slavery, we do want to affirm that we are an ethnic group. We have a people who we want to be recognized within our country so again I look forward to your to your commentary on the recommendations provided and further engagement thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Okay. We have here for more hands up. Welcome. Antonio we can't hear you right now. It's Anthony Edwards. How are you. Okay, now we can hear you. Great. Okay, good. Thank you so much for allowing me into your space today I was invited by Kiera, who is an alumni from UMass Amherst. My name is Anthony Edwards I live in the Boston area. I'm national reparations with the California Task Force, NASD and also CJ. I also work with the US Freeman project out of New York, and also the Chicago Freeman project. We have a grassroots network of organizations that basically functions to represent our people on the national level for reparations. And we're striking down HR 40 because first of all, we've been eliminated from sitting at the table to speak on behalf. It's a very conservative effort across the nation to go into municipalities to strike up these reparations things and it's clearly really cooperative. I mean so basically reparations never belongs at the municipal level to local level because they can never pay for the 40 million emancipated slaves. We know that that debt so far is $16 trillion. So this conservative effort to do this as an abstraction and also creates a division between us and the people who oppressed us. And so I want to come and say this reparations word is being over exploited. When you're on a municipal level it should be atonement. It should be restitution for restorative justice. So when you keep using reparations over and over and over again, it gets watered down. I obviously want to ask you, because I do know ex students my age, they went to UMass Amherst, I used to hang there by the way, can you please change the verbiage number one to say atonement, because it's not reparations reparations is only due to the 40 40 million emancipated slaves for chattel slavery in the US. We cannot get bogged down with the transatlantic slave trade and other people that were enslaved in their countries. They have a direct claim to United Kingdom to Spain, Portugal to America, not to the US. And we also want to be recognized as the US freemen. We are legal standing body of people that's been registered by the US government, through the American Freeman Act of the American Bureau, and also the American Freeman Bank. When you say black slaves or African slaves, that's including everybody in the diaspora, the United States shouldn't be paying for that. However, I have many friends from all over the country. They could be compensated for the wrong systematic oppression and racism that they received since 1865 with the Immigration Act. Prior to that there was only 1% black immigrants in the country. So when people talk about reparations, they are racing our culture which is highly disrespectful, very egregious, and they want to stop from the time that they get here and talk about the harms that they receive. The whole race of people had to have suffered any harms in America, whether it be the Native Americans, the API community, or even the Jewish people who have suffered the Holocaust have ever allowed anybody else to dictate their narrative. So we find it very egregious. We find it very painful and it's very disrespectful for other people to use you and your establishment like others for their narrative. If you're asking, can you please change your movement to atonement? And then number 2, you have this as being the African heritage reparations. A lot of people who are foundational black to this country who descend from black to slavery don't even call ourselves African. So we're known as American free men. So if you really want to bridge the gap and you want to heal the community, please talk to us. Sit and talk to us. I'm saying we're very available. We're very quite capable. We have highly intelligent people. We have scholars who will want to speak to you about that. But when an institution follows somebody who has an agenda, obviously, to make sure that they're satisfied on their end and not talk to the people that harm. We could never go to anybody else's country and say, oh, I'm living in dire or uninhabitable conditions. I want to sue the government because I shouldn't have to live this way. And so that's what's basically being done here. And I want to say I'm not divisive. I have family members that are from the islands. I do mass. I do Conville. My mother builds costumes. We've been everywhere. It's just very disrespectful and egregious to come to America and overstep us and overstep the boundaries and act like we don't exist and don't allow us to speak. So those are the two things I'm going to ask you for. Atonement for your movement. Take out the reparations and also please change this to American free men reparations. Because you're, you're talking about the reparations to do to people from Chattel slavery in America that other people have suffered racism from. But had it not been for slavery that my ancestors suffered, they wouldn't have had these harms. So those are the things I'm going to recommend to ask you to do. It's very egregious and no other race or people that will harm would allow that to happen. Thank you. Do you have any questions? Not right now, but thank you very much. And also, as I said, I'll put up our email address at the end of public. Thank you. Thank you. Let's just make one more statement. So we were able to get to talk to me and also the city council. They too had black enslaved and African slaves in their verbiage and I was personally able to get them to change it. So the new bill that comes out will read that the body of people that sit on this task force, which is a five will be primarily those who descend from Chattel slavery and American freedmen is in there. So we're asking everybody else to mirror that. And if you don't mirror it, then it just seems like we're not going to get this done smoothly across Massachusetts. And so you can look at the, the basically the recording from that day is dated the 14th. It is Mr. Aurora who announced that they did amend it and they did amend it based on the recommendations. We had a petition over 500 people signed it and we just asked to be recognized and respected as a people. We mean no harm. We're not aggressive. We're not angry. We were just really disappointed that people are co-op in our reparations and erasing us and it's pure racial. So I thank you. If anything I can do for you, let me know. I'm curious your alumni. I will go through her. She's well versed. And we just want to elevate her and support her and her mission to work with you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to speak. It means a lot. Thank you. Okay. Jonathan, I think you're in. Yes. First of all, I would like to thank you for allowing me to speak in this space. My name is Jonathan Bryant. You just spoke to my partner Antonia Edwards, co-founder of Solidarity. We also, and with the U.S. Freedmen project. And I'm not going to be long because she pretty much said on what I wanted to say and I believe that who it goes to specificality is very important. You know, we have to go at the beginning of where the home was directed to and that was the American Freedmen. And that was the status that was given to us at the emancipation. You know, so we cannot allow with the flat blackness thing to go on and it go to everybody. And it's wrong. And it's agree. It's egregious. And please listen to the community and listen to the people and what's going on. And, you know, keep American Freedmen in your mind. And I'll leave my plane with that because, like I said, my assistant Antonia, my partner, she basically said it all. Thank you, Jonathan. Yeah, and it looks like we have at least two, if not three more. Okay. Hello. Yes, hello, can you hear me. Yes. Hi, it's Laura Mills. Good afternoon. I had a few comments. I think that Amherst again has made things complicated, over complicated. I think the past comments and shout out to Boston where I was raised and where I'm from. Thank you to the speakers who just spoke and stated their position so strongly, but Amherst is a unique place and I don't think there is a lot of people who would consider themselves Black Freedmen or African American. And I just wanted to say as well that I think that we are arguing about eligibility before anything has even been allocated which kind of just side steps and postpones any allocation. I feel like we need to stop fighting over anything that hasn't even been put into place. And the last thing I'll just say is, you know, from everyone has, you know, a different way that they experience and identify as being Black if they consider themselves Black people. And from just my thinking, you know, Africans came over here and were enslaved. They were Africans. Then they became all, you know, from their experience, their American experience, a new people. But I don't think, you know, a severe and violent and the experience of slavery can only hold a people together. I think we are, we have different identities and that is just one part of an identity as a Black person who was born in America. So I would just hope, you know, you know, the Amherst reparations assembly or the African heritage reparations assembly would not, you know, so much harp on or try to identify, you know, a Black identity. But because I think that's going to just be very difficult to do. So I just wanted to share those thoughts. I appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you, Lauren. My check. We can hear you. Peace peace. My name is cash gains on Black American on both sides for context or conversation. I wanted to say that, similar to the previous speakers I agree that calling things reparations that aren't necessarily for unpaid wages for our ancestors labor is kind of a mischaracterization state acts of atonement is more tax of atonement or university acts of atonement. I think is more feasible in that instance or more applicable, although still valiant. The federal claim is the real win for reparations. And it's crazy numbers that I can speak to further once I see the emails in the contact page but I wanted to just mention quickly the Oregon bill. Although the statewide active atonement this bill Senate bill 619 suggests lifetime payments of $123,000 a year, and it already has a clause in it. That speaks to eligibility. One would need to trace if their ancestor was enslaved in America back to a census of 1850 1860 1870, which is around the end of the Civil War, as well they would need to have been claiming black for the last 10 years on federal to weed out people who maybe don't identify as black American anymore. We, we support that eligibility criteria and it was created by economist Dr. William Darity, or champion by him anyway. I've spoken to the lady Julia Mia, who I believe is the mayor of Boston because there's a Boston reparations commission coming soon. I told her that when when strategies are going to need to be a part of the conversation so that we have public and private partnerships, and that we'll need to also convince conservatives obviously, but it is obviously more conservative to pay just black Americans in factory investment, then to pay all modern day Americans with the suggested things like universal basic income or, I guess, speaking to immigration in general so all that being said I just wanted to mention that there are numbers interested in that land is also a part of the conversation and thank you guys for mentioning reparations in any form of fashion. Thank you. Thanks for being here. I think we have one more. We're coming back to prime Friedman and prime. We can barely. I do hear some audio but try again. Hello. Yes, go ahead and try to make your comment I'll let you know if we can hear you. Okay, I don't know what's going on. I am a proud American treatment and a reparation is from New York City. I appreciate all of the people who have come before me on this topic because this is a very much needed discussion and I appreciate job for allowing us to speak because we're talking about the community here. We're talking about eligibility as much on it flawlessly. American freedom. How are you in American freedom. You have to show improve that you have an ancestor or ancestors who are enslaved from 1776 to 1865 that's the limit standard. Also, you have to show improve that you self identified as black, African American, colors, Negro, American freedom, things of that nature. So there's a linear standard and there is a self identification standard and that can be shown improving for a lot of our job application versus business, et cetera, et cetera. I agree. It should not be called reparations because reparations is only done on a national level in the standard for reparations must be done by eliminating eliminating eliminating the wealth grand canyon for the American freedom and population in European American and Asian and all other groups of people we have been historically targeted and put at the bottom to the same in the legacy of slavery due to the destruction of the reconstruction era due to black coal and discrimination. We're excluded from the GI Bill over those things. So I would suggest that you don't call it reparations. I do have some suggestions as far as not calling it reparations. I call it state acts of atonement. You can call it economic security initiatives. You can call it state equity initiatives, justice initiatives and policies, but you cannot. You should not call it reparations for the American freedom. Again, the standard for reparations is eliminating eliminating the wealth gap for the American freedom. We have been targeted historically, and we need that equity, not just equality but equity. We need to be prioritized because it was our ancestors who did not come here by choice. There's a difference between those who came by choice and those who came in change. My ancestors came in here and change. And because they came in change, all people who are in this country came over here to benefit off of the change that we came in. But by my ancestors, they call it the American dream. And that American dream was based off of the American freedom nightmare. So we have to be specific. HR 40 is not reparations. I repeat HR 40 is not reparations. What is reparations? Reparations by law. By law is monetary compensation, restitution, rehabilitation, guarantees of non-recurring crimes, and also satisfaction enclosures. So that is the standard. That is what we define as reparations. In the freedom community, we do not accept reparations unless it eliminates the wealth gap. Unless it includes, but not limited to, direct cash payments. We live in a white supremacist, capitalistic society. So it is only right that because of our land and our wealth was stolen, we get the capital. We need capital to empower ourselves to exercise self-determination just like other groups of people in this country do. That being said, I thank you. Thank you for your time. I will really appreciate it if we have more public discussions like this. And you allow the community to speak because if you're advocating for the community, and you're not doing any community outreach, then you're really not representing the community, especially. So I appreciate it. Thank you. Have a blessed day, and I hope y'all heard me. Thank you very much, Prime. And yes, we heard we could hear your full comment. So we have one more comment, and then I will put up that contact information. Welcome, Ernest. Greetings. I guess task force or commission members. I just wanted to echo some of the sentiments that we heard from, you know, various freemen or black Americans across the United States who are actual descendants of US chattel slavery. One, yes, we value the lineage standard and believe that's important for all reparative solutions offered for the, you know, the traumas of chattel slavery as well as Jim Crow and other state sanctioned oppression that occurred afterwards. Two, I wanted to say, you know, just reading some articles here and it looks like, you know, from a municipality standpoint, you guys are seeking to achieve what was achieved in Evanston, and I would state that, you know, what you're hearing from the members of the Senate community is that, you know, municipality reparations, which as it has it being called isn't truly considered reparations in our, in our sense of the definition, but we want, I guess, with that being said, you know, even though municipality reparations is being, you know, called like a municipality state of us municipality atonements or state atonements. I think it's important that you guys recognize the power that you do have. So since you're operating on behalf of the municipality of Amherst, I would recommend that you guys seek to work with the Boston Task Force as well. And actually crafting legislation, not even crafting legislation, but crafting a proposal that seeks for the state of Massachusetts to create a state commission. And the idea behind that is, of course, there's greater resources and allocations that can be dished out from a state level then simply from a municipality level. And the second, I guess, one of the other things I wanted to mention is that when we talk about reparations and we talk about the conditions of those who are descendants of slaves. I would refer you guys to the Boston color of wealth report, which did some desegregation. When you look at the data of black wealth in the state of ball, I guess not in the state but in the city of Boston. And I would, I would make the argument that if you were to pursue, you know, a color of wealth report for the city of Amherst that you would find similar disparities where us blacks, a.k. Friedman have a wealth next to zero while that isn't necessarily the same picture definition for those who are not Friedman. At the same time when we talk about atonement, or addressing a gap or providing actual repair to black Americans who descend from chattel slavery, or this ultimate sin of our country. We need to keep in mind that when we use a word repair, it should address the community that we are talking about. It shouldn't be something similar to Providence, Rhode Island, where it's new very neutral based in its way as race neutral in its approach. And then at the same time when we're thinking about cities like Evanston, me being from Michigan and you know we're watching closely what's going to happen in Detroit because it's, it's been stated that a similar model would be pursued and I think this is that when we think of a municipality or a city, a city level reparations program. We understand that based on Everston, only 16 families have received the quote unquote reparations or repair that was offered in the form of the housing voucher. You guys moved through with the Amherst reparations program. Again, I would just ask you to consider what has happened, consider the comments of the community, and at the same time, use the power that you currently have to advocate for things that may appease the community in terms of satisfaction, which which could include things of like I said, the motion for a statewide commission, or the motion for delineation of black data, so that we are able to see the economic, the true socio economic disparities that are plaguing black Americans who reside in Amherst. From there, if this reparations fund is to stay open for the next 10 years, I would suggest that you guys make ongoing recommendations to truly tackle those socio economic conditions that are being suffered by the dissenting community. With that I am complete. Thank you very much, Ernest for your comment and I will mention to members that the Alliance for Afro American cultural education from the University of Massachusetts. This is the AACE information that you all received in your email and is in the packet includes the color of wealth report that our last speaker referred to. I'm also going to share my screen and give folks some information here so this these are the two email addresses for folks who would like to reach us if you send an email to these two addresses, or one or the other. If you're going to send to one or the other please send to Jennifer Moisten Jennifer's here with us she is our staff liaison. She will make sure that all members receive your comment she just turned her camera on Jennifer would you just wave. Thanks. In you can, you can send to Jennifer or to both of us and we will make sure that all members of the committee receive your comments your written comments. I also wanted to just once again share for folks that the AHRA is having an upcoming listening session on January 11. This is our engage Amherst page. If you look at the URL at the top engage amherst.org backslash AHRA. This is where you can find a lot of information about our work. In particular this listening session will be happening on January 11. Okay, so I'm going to stop the share public comment is completed for today. But please do feel free to join us at future meetings and I'm taking a look at the time I would like to do a quick time track for members here. And I'm going to start with you, Yvonne. What is your timing look like today. I can stay until about the 30. Okay, excellent. And Alexis. Same. Great. Dr. Shabazz. Same. Okay. Dr. Rhodes. Okay. And Hala, while we're waiting on Hala Jennifer, does that work for you if we stay on until 330. Oh, yep, that's fine. Okay. Okay, so that was the most public comment that we've received so far so that was really, really excellent to have so many folks come out and offer public comment. I just want to acknowledge that we haven't had that much public comment and so acknowledge that members may be feeling different reactions or may or may not want to talk specifically about the public comment that we received today. So I'm just going to look for any hands to guide us in terms of that for the remaining of our time if somebody feels that they would like to respond now please raise your hand otherwise. What I would like to suggest is that we allow our ourselves time to process that and digest that information and then carry it on into our next meeting when we'll be talking about the majority of the comments were about eligibility. But I'm looking for hands now. Yes, Yvonne. I'd like, I'd like to say that. Yeah, that was really very lively and informative. I feel like, and some of the folks in the room with me might disagree. I do see the distinction between reparations and atonement. I feel also that on the municipal level, there's a different way to deal with reparations and atonement that's specific to each community. And so some of the assumptions about the Amherst community, you know, the way that we need to address it is for it to work in our community. So, I do see that maybe we want to have a conversation later on about what that means for us in this distinct community. Because certainly, I think that the conversations that we've been having more than anything has been about justice and in our community, looking at and amassing the stories of folks who have lived here. The idea that, you know, for our reparations actually is a construct of white people. I'm just going to say reparations, that whole idea of reparations, and everyone is reacting to that. And as we know, lots of times these constructs that are created by white people are about making divisions. And so there has to be a new definition and a new way to walk through this idea of reparations, even if it is about redefining, you know, and even if it is, I do believe it's not one or the other. I think reparations is a federal level. That is the federal level. The lazy thing was to push it down onto municipalities and I do feel like municipalities have a responsibility as far as reparations, even if it's renamed atonement. I do feel that that is a responsibility of a town like Amherst. So, I mean, I'm just saying that we need to look at what our community is and what we can do within our community with the funds and the monies that are available to us. And then on a larger scale, partnering with the folks in Boston about what the state in general wants to do and then how we can lobby the federal government to take their responsibility because that's where the responsibility lies. Thanks, Yvonne. Alexis. Yeah, I just, I wanted to thank everybody for coming out. This is, and this is why I brought it up earlier is because we really like, especially in this community, haven't really heard very strong about a push for specifically folks with who are descendants of victims of child slavery. I feel like, and I agree with Ms. Mendez about, you know, we are kind of in a, in a certain town that is like so very specific of historical dues, debts, maybe I'll call it. So, and that's not to say that we're, we're unique at all. So, I want to thank everybody for coming out and, and making public comment and I'm also very excited about the prospect of collaborating and working with folks across the state to be able to work on this larger movement. So, so thank you everyone for taking the time and joining us today. Dr. Shbas. Thank you. Yeah, it was. It's always good conversation. I would reiterate that, you know, the word the concept of reparations is as old as human conflict itself. It's, you know, simply when a harm has been done to a group of people by a government by another force outside force. And once that is that that original harm that injustice, you know, you're trying to overcome, overcome it you've you've reached an agreement this was wrong. You've apologized. The, the, the, the harming group has apologized they recognize they did wrong. And then you then say, how do we fix this how do we repair that says old as human conflict in human history. So it's, it's not invented by, you know, the United Nations, it wasn't invented by the League of Nations. It wasn't invented, you know, in by, by any, you know, super governmental or or white people or anything it's as old as human conflict in our in our story. Okay, and so I don't back off from the word and I'm not going to shift. I'll a Sandy Darity or Allah anybody else to say let's call it atonement or let's call it restorative or so. No, it is reparations, and it is reparations on a local municipal level to address harms that were historically occurred. And the continuation of those harms are still in in evidence. And it's to say that we're stopping that again, our original resolution of the town of Amherst that gave birth to the African heritage reparations family was a resolution calling for the need to end calling to end structural racism. It wasn't a call to repay the descendants of slavery of slaves of enslaved people who reside here in Amherst, because as has been pointed out, that cannot be done. There is not enough money in Amherst to pay for all of the people who are here, who are descendants of of whose ancestors were enslaved in the United States. There is not enough money collected in Amherst to pay all of us who were here. descendants of ancestors who were and that's not what the original resolution was about. The original resolution was to say there are systematic structural racism in this town. They have a legacy that still affects us today that the things like the restrictive covenants and the restrictions to try to keep black people out and from being able to have have a home here in Amherst. People like the first black, a full time professor at UMass, who still this to this day does not live in Amherst. He lives in South Adley, but was discriminated against when he got here in the 1940s that he was not able to get a home here. This is what we're trying to rectify. This is what we're trying to correct. This is what we're trying to repair within the limitations we face in terms of state of city government, city funds and city resources. But we're charged with writing a report that does the best we can within our limitations for that effort. And so for me, the ending of structural racism is a problem that is not just against those who descend. I do. I have my genealogy. I have my lineage. I know exactly where I come from. Okay, and my people who were enslaved in what is today called Louisiana. Okay, so I know my my own roots, and I know where I stand. I'm as foundational as any foundational black American can claim to be. So I know where I stand. But I'm trying to deal with the problem of structural racism. Based upon the resolution that reparations for Amherst, you know, gave rise to and brought forward, and that we all responded to and got the, you know, signed petitions and everything else and got the town council to unanimously verify. And that is the basis of our charge. So yes, we will talk about eligibility we will talk about we have already mentioned the concept of lineage. I think it is an important one. It's important one for us to all be educated about. It's an important one for actually my call is governments, local state and federal immediately ought to give African Americans, the genealogical resources to get their genealogy done. It, you know, when people say oh it's in the census it's not in the census. It's not in the 2020 senses that we can go and count who here in Amherst were or descendants of an ancestor who was enslaved in the United States I wish it was that simple. It is not in the 1850 senses. It is not in the 1860 most of the 1860 senses is lost to us. We don't even have it, you know, at the at the at the municipal at the local levels, these were lost. It was that simple to just say we can go here push a button and we're good and everybody, every black person in Amherst can can can find and know just what a push of a button, you know, who they're, you know, have the federal record that they have who they were that was enslaved. It's very difficult. It's very difficult we need help we need resources that that should actually be done. And then we can have, you know, a lineage, you know, access to a lineage approach. Once that is done. But just right now talking about it that's that's that's more easy said than done I've read the color of wealth report. You know, and that goes into statistics in Boston about patients who are 50% of the Caribbean community Caribbean immigrant community in Boston. It talks about Kate Verdeans it talks about all these other groups that we have right here in Amherst too. But you know it and it also can can look at we can try to drill down, but it's going to take some work before we can really drill down and disaggregate those who are actual descendants of ancestors who were enslaved prior to Juneteh and readily accessible. But even once it is accessible. I still think we need to have a more open ended approach that can talk about specific kinds of benefits and specific things that we can do in Amherst to help those who are descendants of those in the United States who were enslaved, but as well also look at benefits and responses to problems affecting all all black people all black African American people, regardless of if they came over here after 1865. I thought I have open ended broad approach, looking at ways to respond to the problem of racism and structural racism in Amherst. Thank you. Thanks Dr. Shabazz. Yvonne I see that your hand is that still up from before. Okay. So, it's just about four minutes to 330 so I wanted to quickly check in to see if there are any other comments right now we will of course continue this discussion. I don't believe and just for folks who are watching and for folks who may see this on the recording are we're going to take a two week break. So our next meeting will be on Monday, January 2 at 2pm. We will, I am sure at that time be continuing this discussion. We will also hold the recommendations from the AACE I think we've talked a bit about that today in the context of our public comment and this conversation but it is really too important with a couple minutes left for us to try to delve into that right now so if it's okay with you all I'd like to give you a brief update from the Donahue Institute about the survey work, just to kind of switch gears I see that Jennifer's hand is raised though sorry about that Jennifer. Yeah, no problem. The second is a holiday. And the ninth would be just a couple days before our listening session. Would folks be able to meet on the third, fourth, or fifth. You want me to send a doodle poll. Would that work best. All right. A doodle poll. Yeah. Okay. Send a preferred time that you can come up with. Okay, I'll do that when we, when we, when we're finished Jennifer and I'll let you know okay. All right, so I wanted to briefly give you an update on the survey I had the opportunity to meet with Kerry at the Donahue Institute. I think I gave maybe a brief update at last week's meeting Dr Rhodes you weren't at last week's meeting am I correct in saying that. You are. Okay. All right, so if I'm repeating myself, excuse me, but what we agreed to is Kerry is going to speak with the executive director of the Donahue Institute to put my stuff up first to someone's. Okay, to assess our unique situation and what we're hoping to get out of a survey and see if there's a small scope in which she can work with us to develop really strong survey questions. And that would be with regard to a more informal survey so this wouldn't be the survey that we've talked about multiple times that was representative, randomized, which is a survey that I know Dr Rhodes has really advocated and I think there are strong reasons for us to pursue. But I think we need to figure out a balance given the time that we have left to do some survey work and then potentially to recommend in our report that a broader survey happens that is randomized. That is representative that then really speaks to potentially for example the way that the funds would be used as, as the time progressed so I'm going to stop there and just see if there are any questions. My hope is that we will be able to get a response back from Kerry she was planning to as I said speak with her executive director about what might be the best approach for us. So briefly, when I look back at the charge that was given us at that number two, which said, we were going to consult with the African American community and get guidance from them that I would be in favor of doing a survey of the African American community in terms of the information that we already have, in terms of those people who have already responded. They're a part of bam, they're they came through the portal and identify themselves. I would, you know, I would suggest and I'm assuming that Kerry would agree. And all of us would be much more efficient and effective to survey that group is obviously not a representative sample. There are some risks in doing that. And, however, that's what we have, we do not have the ability while we do have the ability to do it would be time of going out and developing a sample from the wider African American community which we would have to then go out and identify all of them or, you know, more than 100 that we don't already have. And there's no guarantee that we will get above that group that we already have so therefore, if I'm going to weigh in on it and deal with it I would say hey we're going to do an informal survey. And let's go with that group, which is African Americans, which then would satisfy a part of that number two that said we would consult with and get approval whatever we're going to do with that with that group at least we can we can satisfy the first part is that we're going to consult with the African American community. Yeah, and I think that's where Carrie was leaning and she really wanted to speak with Mark, and just see how they might. We want something that has a lot of integrity, and we want the questions to have a lot of integrity and we want to be able to reach as many of the folks that we have to reach so as soon as I have something back from her which I hope will be before our next meeting. We're going to be able to discuss that more in depth. It is really is, it is, no, we're in Amherst, we're in the academic community. So matter what kind, no matter what kind of survey we come up with, we are going to be subject to criticism. So, my, and I will argue for the strongly this go where our strength is this go where our numbers are this go where the who we know is there and let's survey that group. And she had some good ideas about how like, even the people that we survey can then send it to other people so it is there are ways that we circulate it even beyond the 150 or 200 folks that we have for sure on a list. So Jennifer I saw that your hand was raised for is raised. No, okay. Dr. Shabbat. Sorry, go ahead. I just think the best thing to say here is that we have a lot of events that are going to be geared to the African community coming up in the next three months and so either you're sending those cards out with the QR code on it and or folks from the AHRA coming and engaging with the community would be good. I just, I, you know, I'm not a member of the AHRA and your staff liaison but I do a lot of community engagement and it just seems to to put a cap on it and say we're only going to use these people who filled it out just seems. I don't know. And not that I'm talking against Dr. Rhodes because one group could do that but another group could go and do some boots on the ground stuff so that you could get a better, more even group of responses from community members. Absolutely. And we've talked about that Jennifer and getting out there so we have the Black Assembly of Amherst, Massachusetts list. We have the inclusion portal list. And then we have these upcoming opportunities. And Jennifer we should speak about those opportunities and seeing what members the AHRA might be able to be there to engage with members of the community and so the first event is on the 26th for Kwanzaa. Yes. And is that virtual Jennifer? No, that's in person at the bank center from 11 to three. That's right. Okay, so do any members know that they're going to be attending that event? Yes, I see some. Yes. Okay. At least three. So I'm going to get a bunch. I have cards still I'll get more printed as needed. That gives us an opportunity to get word out about the listening session. So the postcard that has that information, plus the QR code, I will make sure that I get those to Hala to Alexis and to Dr. Shabazz prior to that event occurring. Okay, great. Dr. Shabazz, I think you're frozen. Back to the survey question. Yep. You were frozen in a second. So we missed, we missed what you said. Okay. So the other piece of this is, again, and you. Some of us have been interacting with the college campuses. But the question becomes, do we have authorization from the body to, you know, move forward? But UMass has a black population, a population that identifies itself as black African American of over 1500. Okay. That's the students are about 1464. The staff, the faculty, you're over 1500. Okay. Now, problem is not all of that group, although affiliated with UMass as employees or as students, they're, they don't all live in Amherst. But they are disaggregated. There is a number and there are emails. And if the university would partner with us and to prove it could be possible to get survey instrument out to that population 1500. Okay. Then there's 100 plus at Amherst College. We don't know them. They're disaggregated. We know who they are. Again, they don't all necessarily live in Amherst, but a good number of them do. And then there's a small number at Hampshire College disaggregated. No. So again, it would be a matter of if there is agreement in this body to go through town government to go through Jennifer Moisten and the town manager's office. To liaise or through the chair. You know, for us to are someone from this body to liaise with those campuses, and then you could put potentially put the survey instrument in the hands of approximately 1700 of the black African Americans that are defined in the Amherst. But a good number of them are defined in the Amherst population, maybe not all, but a good number. And, and, and perhaps within the questions of the survey, get, you know, ask if there are any details they might want to share that help us to know whether they live in Amherst or not. That's interesting. So we could kind of track the survey results that come in based upon those that indicate they are, they do live in Amherst, not just attend one of the three institutions so that one idea. I think that's a good question. The question of the, the list is there. Do we want to at some point kind of look through all of these different lists. What it currently is the inclusion portal list, and any other kinds of lists to begin to, to have a list of those that have identified that and, and, you know, and particularly again where we can those that are resident of Amherst from that list. So that we have, you know, in exact sense, if they have emails if they have ground addresses, what the full number is that we could send for send the survey to because right now it's not like we just got different names across different lists, but we don't know if Dr. Rhodes throughout on the number of maybe it's it comes to 100. But if we could work to consolidate the mailing list that we have from all of the different list, that would be good to know what the, what the genuine number is. Finally, the, and of course building on to it with these upcoming events and any other names and persons, I sent out some time back, just additional names that I found from going through precinct a voter voter roles. I think it was maybe the November voter voter roles but whatever date it was. You know, if we did all the other precincts and really, you know, could kind of double check that maybe some more names could could result from from analyzing the the town's voter voter lists, because there you definitely know they're just a resident, and it's just a matter of if if names, you know, come off the list that that that occur to you. Or whomever's checking. So those are just some concrete suggestions relative to to the surveying piece. Thank you, Dr. Spos great suggestions. Dr. Rhodes. We're going to take one more comment. I agree with what you're saying in terms of the 1500, but the only caution I would like for us to realize is that we are doing reparations in relationship to Amherst. The hand that feeds us is the Amherst Council and the residents of Amherst. We're going to do a survey. We need to ensure that when we do that survey we put out we put out results. Those results need to be from people who we have positively identified as being African American from Amherst who live in Amherst. Those. So, yes, sending out to the 1500, but you have to have a box under this is are you an Amherst resident. If you do that, then that's fine. I'm fine with it. And I have to go. Yes, let me just make before you go Dr. Dr. Rhodes just very quick statement. Dr. Spos was in touch with me about a week and a half ago. She is a member of, I think a long time board member of the Amherst neighbors organization. She is now part of their programming committee, and they are very interested in working with us and partnering with us to create a program for the Amherst neighbors organization. So, I wanted to say today we had one of the programming members was in the audience today and was going to be available to answer questions but our meeting took a different turn today so I will be back in touch with them and I will invite them to come to our next meeting so that we can have that conversation. So if there aren't any other questions or comments. Yes, Dr. Shabazz. You're muted Dr. Shabazz. Those in the audience we are reading the documents that a CE sent along to us, we do appreciate them. The color of wealth study in particular is is very interesting, and as well as the recommend some of the recommendations for preserving the history of free people. And I do hope we will continue to incorporate some of those in future discussions thank you. Absolutely, absolutely. And we'll carry that information over in our packet for our next meeting as well. Okay, so I am going to adjourn the meeting at 344 p.m. Thank you everyone. Happy holidays, Happy New Year, and we will see you soon.