 So, let's give everyone one or two more minutes. Hello, hello. Did we ever figure out who is the actual host? Is it you, Cheryl, or is it someone else? Of the actual Zoom? Taylor is probably the person who can... If you have any questions to do with the Zoom, she will have all the passwords and everything. Okay. Hello, hello. Hey, hey. You know, at the top of the agenda, we should make an announcement about our technical lead. Now that that's been formalized. It hasn't yet. Amy told us she would be getting back to us like the votes and everything have passed, but I haven't seen the official thing. There was. There was. There's a blog post as well. So, Amy, Amy sent the follow-up email. So I can actually link that. And I saw you merge the PR as well to make it, to make it real in our GitHub. I'm gladly at this. Find a link. So Bartok doesn't have to. Bartik, too, for making this, after already doing all the work, expected of a tech lead to also get the badge of honor onto his forehead. Yes. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Let's make some more of them. Yes. We have a special guest today. We have Cheryl here. VP ecosystem of CNCF also responsible for the end user surveys. As most of you probably know, there was an end user survey on observability. That's a tongue breaker. I've been doing this survey recently. And as a result of this quiz, I was kind of wondering why is steps the rated as highly as it is. And it feels kind of unfair, picking out one specific project. But as Prometheus literally started in part to, to replace steps, the everywhere, it feels kind of fitting to, to call it out. And then to try and get a better connection to end users. And there actually needs like it's, it's fine that we as, as project maintainers, as sick members and such spearhead the way for, for where technology can go. But it's also very much about enabling end users to actually take that and use it. And obviously like there is this whole discussion about many people that we see observability as a cost center. So not as something which drives innovation, but just something which you need to have, like, I don't know, products or, or elevators, like it's infrastructure. It's supposed to come out of the wall and else no one cares. And we can't change those settings, at least not immediately. Yet there is probably some, some space into which we can, into which we can try and move. So for example, what Sharon and me talked about was maybe having a survey sent out to the end users about their main pain points. What could we do to support them? Like one example would be applied from here. And then just give them like five or 10 different things, maybe more five thing side, which the end users can choose what, what gives them the most benefit, what eases the most pain. Deliberately not free from for the users, because we kind of need to spear it where it makes sense to go, but then basically have them be able to choose what they want. And that's where Cheryl is here to talk about this. So now I'm shutting up. I thought I was just here to listen. Oh, okay. But yeah, but I'll just say two minutes on it. The reason that we created the end user technology radar that I just put into chat so you can read it. I guess there were two reasons really. One was to show, okay, what do end users really use and what do they recommend? So just as a report, you can look at that. But the second reason for it was to force more interaction between end users and the SIGs and the projects. Because there was a feeling that these two groups are very divided and don't talk to each other enough. And ultimately, we're supposed to be making people's lives better and solving people's actual problems. So my goal with this is not as which said, like I think it would be a great start to ask end users, like, hey, what could SIG observability work on or provide or help to make it easier in the observability space. But I think I'm also interested in hearing how, how can we keep this an ongoing conversation? So it's not just like, have a survey and then we vanish and never want to talk to you again. Okay, that's my bit. So I know what I think and I would share things, but what does everyone else think? Nothing? No one? Okay, then the result of this. Hi everyone. My name is Totan Horvitz. I'm using the opportunity also to introduce myself. I'm from, I work at Logs.io. So that's my relation to the domain and to observability and specifically to, of course, for CNCF related projects and so on. On that respect, I think that this is something that we've, I personally have experienced, I think all of us who are at Logs.io, this, you know, maybe lack of communication, not enough communication amongst, amongst the different projects and the different sigs and the different, let's say, the different activities and different pillars as sometimes called them. So definitely welcome. We need to see what's the effective way of establishing this. So this is, that sounds like a good start. I would maybe create some follow-ups on that. Cheryl, if I may suggest to see maybe practical means of creating an ongoing facilitation of this interlinks. But definitely on the one in the industry does converge. We specifically at Logs.io put a lot of effort, putting a lot of effort on creating these bridges between the disparate projects, you know, Grafana and Kibana and Jaeger and Prometheus and so on and so forth. But then again, we often don't find the counterparts for that. We definitely would like to see that as a community activity, community engagement to have that as part of the ongoing discussion and maybe also standardize the way that these interact like classic examples would be correlations, you know. Log trace correlation, metric to logs and so on. These are classical things that people oftentimes mention, but bringing that into the community discussion, the SIG discussions is vital in my opinion. Definitely welcome the people. Thank you. Thank you. So I just wanted to chime in as someone that was an industry analyst for many years during this market. When I kind of look at the result of what was recently published from the observability, I guess what I'll call the radar or whatever, sorry, I forgot the name of the publication, but it seemed pretty mislead because you have all these companies kind of like getting this out. And then when you read the methodology behind it, I mean, it's 30 companies with a couple hundred respondents of what they're using for observability. And I don't think it's a very good reflection of the reality of what many of us see across user community. And it's also a little bit disappointed, I guess, at the results and how it's being constructed by the market, by the community, I guess. But I understand it was first attempt at something like this. And I think it's an important thing for the community to do and produce. It needs to be broader in terms of data collection if we're going to make some type of recommendations as to what users should be assessed and implementing and using. That's all that I wanted to chime in. Thank you. I think this is mixing at least two things, because with my sick hat on, it's very much about leading the way and about enabling end users and others to use certain things. There is the survey is more about what are people, what is the current state of the world. There's some more about the background of the methodology in the TOC recording, which just finished. So you can watch this. And I highly suggest this course. Cheryl answered quite well to a few of those points which you just made. So I highly recommend watching that recording, the TOC recording of today's state just one hour before. It's somewhere in the TOC. It should typically be out later on today after post-processing of the video. And it will be posted to the YouTube channel for the CNCF. Yeah, I'm sure I'll see it. Cool. Sorry I missed it. Yeah, thank you again for the feedback. I think at least one thing that popped out is the statement about what should people be doing. I think both within the SIG, given the membership here and the charter of the SIG, we very much don't want to be prescriptive about what specific technologies or things people should use. I think it was more, I don't want to speak for the survey, but I think it's more about capturing what people have reported that they are using. And then granted I think one thing that we talked about last hour is what could we do in this SIG to help broaden the scope of the survey and how do we capture people's experiences and what drives their decisions, what the requirements are and such. And so that was one topic I wanted to bring here today to brainstorm around and perhaps in our next meeting have some proposals around, how can we better engage with industry and with folks that are using perhaps CNC architect, but likely lots of other things as well. So if you have any suggestions about how to provide a broader sample set, more data is generally better. That was also my comment. And I like the activity overall as I mentioned before, I think it's good to be moving in that direction. But Gerard mentioned great work per se, but having a sample set of 23 is definitely something that needs to be worked on. And I think like putting my vendor hat on for a minute, the CNCF is very broadly publishing. This is the state of observability. And then you're basing it on 23 companies and 30 respondents within those 23 companies is a bit of a bold statement. Let's put it that way. It's totally fine that in a toy like approach, it's end user driven, not vendor driven, like a lot of other activities out there. But you mentioned before that in the future, there will be more possibilities to engage a wider audience. And I think it's just a mismatch of when I look at on Twitter, how it is published, what it's representing versus what it's actually representing. And that might give you some hiccups, especially from the broader tooling community out there. That's maybe the only attack point, but still I think it's also up to this group to find a way to broader which out here, and you mentioned before that with some one month's heads up, I think it's fair that also other tools and other providers in that space are engaging more with their communities and invite them as they are a CTF member to push this in there. I know there's always the balance and you say, okay, you don't want vendors to push all their customers towards wanting in one direction. I'm going to make a point of order. I understand concerns all around mythology. I agree that more data is better than less data. I understand why especially many vendors would like to see better representation of what they themselves are selling and why there are strong incentives to get into those things. Yet, as the person who invited Cheryl, I don't want this to be a sick call turning into complaining about a specific survey because there are channels for giving feedback about these things and such, especially about the amount of data. Again, I highly recommend anyone who didn't. I know Anna is here, we're there to watch that recording, but I don't want this call to turn into Cheryl bashing because that's not why invited turned. I feel like a really, really bad host if 50% of what we now talk about is basically people complaining. So maybe for the context of this call can be pivot away from all of this more towards how to better engage with end users and how to make the ecosystem wider and broader and positive things. Yeah, I just have to intercept it. This was not bashing. This was just sharing opinions and you have been on this call I said it's a great move in the great direction. But I'm totally supporting on the point how we can engage with the end user community. And again, I'm deliberately engaging with this one. There is always the difference between sender and receiver. I understand that you phrased this as an opinion yet for me as the one who invited Cheryl it very much came across as and you were not the only one making comments in this regards anyway. So maybe in the interest of moving of moving forward, I'm actually curious not to call you out Jonah, but I think it's probably safe to say that the bulk of the folks on the call are of an engineering sort of bent or discipline and soliciting feedback and doing market research and or, you know, a survey that would be much more broad that we as a SIG might undertake. That's a discipline just like engineering or product management or anything else. And I'm an engineer enough to know that I don't know some things. So not to put you on the spot, but if you did have any feedback about how to go about. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean doing that we were all ears. That would be great. I would create some type of survey that obviously everyone has input into what we would ask and how we would ask it. And then we would obviously have to correlate all of that data and create both the access to the raw data for anyone to do the analysis should they choose to in the spirit of being completely open. But also some, maybe some of our assessment says to what the data is telling people in terms of maybe where they are today in their observability journey and maybe what they're looking at and where they're going because the ecosystem is evolving extremely quickly and it's very hard to keep on top of even just what's going on within the CNCF around observability. So I think it'd be nice to give users an understanding of maybe where they are and where they should be or could be going with regards to their open source option. And then the question is, do we include vendor technologies in there or not? And that's where it becomes a bit more interesting, questionable whether we keep it straight open source or whether we include vendors and see what the patterns and trends are there. But I think that would be great. It's like we are not here to debate specific end user service in their mythology. I understand the desire and the need to, I absolutely do. But this is outside the scope of the SIC call. Within the scope of the SIC call and the reason why I again personally invited Charles to be part of this and which is why I'm feeling bad about basically inviting her to a place where people complain and again please watch that recording course part of your questions were answered there. Let's pivot to something positive on the status quo. Fair enough. Just answering Matt's question, that's all. Thank you. I'm taking some notes. Thank you for the feedback. Anyway, looking forward in a positive manner what specific things should or could we be engaging with the end user community? So I do have a couple of questions which are well phrased and which don't steer users in a certain direction but still show what we as people who hopefully know where this is going think they might be interested to go but what other things could or should we maybe be doing. I have a proposal a concrete idea and it might seem silly but to your point both Jonah and others this whole space is evolving extremely rapidly. In the last two weeks I've had a number of calls with commercial vendors because again at least within my own company we have a lot of teams just we're a polyglot to an extreme and we're working on consolidating things but I've had discussions with a number of what you would call more traditional vendors who have within their companies open source contributors to CNCF projects like OpenTelemetry and Yeager and things like that and others and I've found that even when discussing with them they actually are a little bit behind in some cases of knowing what's new and what's happened in the last quarter or the last half year so what would folks think of the big curating an activity stream of sorts I want to be careful though that we don't apply a big filter on it or it doesn't turn into advertising but I don't know what the right format is maybe like a cadence newsletter or updates from the SIG or if it's more just like I don't want to say a Twitter feed because that's the wrong term but some way to keep the community abreast of what new projects are there you know this project just released a 1.0 GA or something like that or new integrations between tools I don't know what the right packaging for that is but that general facility of providing current events maybe you got some go ahead maybe Cheryl we can share what the methodology was for engaging and using what the challenges usually are I know myself if you get surveys you're not necessarily feeling massively inclined to answer them and maybe there's something that how maybe some other work or some other activities can help to engage more people because I think that's the part we agreed on and Richie you can tell me to stop if you think it's out of the context here but how we can engage the broader end user community to provide their feedback super hard and like from getting services surveys myself how many do you answer but maybe if you can share some of the challenges that you had and where people might be able to help so I do appreciate all of the feedback that people are giving and Richie I also appreciate you standing up and saying this is not why it's not Cheryl bashing I what I want to say is that my role in this is to set and run the survey but I think to get the questions get that information that you're looking for I think you need to be building the personal connections with end users because it's not something that I can I can report things that I've heard but I want you to actually meet those people and dig in a lot deeper I definitely couldn't give you like okay here's five issues that people want fixed like that's not something that it's my position to say like on behalf of all end users everywhere in the world this is what they want fixed with regards to observability so I do want to figure out like I think this comes down to how much work you are willing to put in not you personally I mean the group is willing to put in to connect with people and build the relationships and that's why I don't think that there's a standardized methodology where I can say like just do this and end users will give you this and to build on this course I think this is the very simple and super hard answer to what Alice was asking how to get more people to reply well give them some value for replying and that's on the one hand super simple and stupid but on the other hand it's super hard and complex and part of the thinking behind please your end users tell us what you want to hear about is precisely this thing to offer something which they actually care about instead of just hey here's another 10,000 question survey have fun please ignore us that's because unless you give them an incentive to to answer they will not curse like why wouldn't they curse they don't have an incentive like it's almost autologic so yeah it's on us as someone as a group who has been given a chance by chair to ask questions and to to get something channels towards this community to come up with some value prop which they find valuable easy and super hard I will say some of the end users have said we're very happy to engage if we think that there will our problems will actually be solved or there will be value for us somehow there will be a reason why something we get out of it there's willingness but I think the next step is on you to decide what as a group you want to do I wonder if it would help to borrow an idea from economics where these surveys are done as part of a panel which kind of repeats every so often and part of the value proposition could be that these people you know you can publish who's part of the panel and maybe some people would like that that might also help us develop relationships with these people so that it's not just another survey they have to fill out but this is a panel they fill out every three months or six months or what have you and make you feel more like you're part of something that you're contributing back to on a regular basis yeah more of an ongoing discussion versus a nameless double blind survey cool I'm an end user I work for a bank and we've been trying to engage more with CNTF and other open source communities and it takes a lot of work and other two I'm the main facilitator for CNTF and I'm trying to find people inside of the organization and they are all interested in participating but the day-to-day and the operation really restrain them from joining but it's an effort that I've been putting and being able to engage some people but what happens in the day-to-day is that normally we rely on vendors right and the vendors they are biased right they want if they support a specific solution and they will normally recommend that way and there is some sort of entropy because we as end users sometimes we don't know what's happening in CNTF and maybe many people that use Kubernetes and some of these solutions for observability or service mesh they don't even know about CNTF they know about the tools, the solutions and they don't know what's going on on the open source community so I think there are different things like there's a lack of awareness from the end user that there's a whole set of other alternatives there's a community that are other solutions out there other than the ones that they are using or being supported by the the vendors I like the idea of webinars that people are drawn to enterprises and they participate and then join I think would be a good opportunity to bring awareness as well and I know that there are many companies that are part of CNTF and I think that would be another way maybe to engage the companies that are already paying for the membership to get more value out of it so these are some of the thoughts that I have as an enterprise trying to get more value trying to be not to be locked in in a specific solution but trying to find alternatives and still struggling getting the right resources within the company to join the community so yeah I didn't say anything like being pointed any specific problem but just sharing some thoughts from my perspective no I think that's very valuable and part of the solution is for more for more end users to become part of those efforts because I just had a quick look at the attendance list I mean Matt is also an end user and everyone else is basically coming from a vendor and myself ever since I joined Grafana I'm also not working on something else at the day job and doing this in my free time but now I'm also part of a vendor so the inherent issue you have is most of us are working for a vendor somehow and this like I'm convinced that everyone here is trying to do their best to be impartial that we all have our biases and such so unless more truly truly neutral people start joining and helping we can't break this up on the plus side what we can repay you with is more in-depth knowledge and being able to actually shape this in the way which you want as an end user point of order I have a clash and I need to move that meeting I know but I have to jump to a customer call I'm sorry Matt can I dump this on you on you Bartek yes of course sorry, Steve one time and a half here and now what I should think about putting this forward in in-depth delivery as well we had usually a lot of project presentations in the past the project was what like talking to people they usually find interesting is more as hearing it from other end users so actively inviting end users on how they address certain topics or what they do internally and share this with other people that's definite value it's not coming from a vendor it's coming from somebody who actually implements it and people who have done it there's also a recording that a lot of people would watch it's totally unbiased this is how we're solving them and as you're building building this up into like regular sick type of presentations this could definitely be helpful and some people might be willing to speak and from my experience from like other kind of user groups or whatever you want to call them once somebody starts to talk about their personal experiences other people will chime in and will join the discussion it's just we're taking the first maybe two or three to what they're doing we have some people in the server they might be willing to have these discussions and that could lead to a value for a lot of other people out there yeah I'm hoping that yeah that's a great point and actually I'm actually working on a blog post or two now for the coming quarter about what we're doing within my company as an end user we're running a largely CNCF based stack and I'm hoping that we can build up a library of case studies and or blog post that we can curate as a SIG and not say this is what the SIG says you should do but here are some and examples of different ways that actual people in the wild are assembling these various building blocks to meet their own requirements so I think that's well put and I think we can walk the line between providing examples and or quick quick starts to play with some of these things for new folks and maybe we'll have a snowball and then we'll start beating people away with a stick for lack of time are there are there more things on this topic or should we move on I think we've got a couple other things there is a nice segue here I've actually I wrote the next one on the agenda I'd like to solicit recommendations for webinars now that we've got I think each and every meeting we've had more attendees slowly growing from more companies than the previous ones but I know litmus is one that I personally haven't used their project but are there other recommendations from folks on the call about who we might want to reach out to to set up some webinars or show and tells or something like that and webinars would be about what like they are presenting for example new project that we yeah we hear a little about for example yeah like so I might be projecting because I personally haven't used litmus but you know that's on the on the landscape and we've got it I would love to get like you know what 15 20 minutes half an hour just whatever the right level of depth is about what the project is what its goals are how it works and how you can engage or something like that something very focused not necessarily on technical deep dives we could do that too but I think given where we are just gelling the community around you know or maybe we just look at the landscape and just you know do do round robin from from all of the projects I think that's a great idea so something I mentioned on my blog post right is that we should definitely connect more people from especially from the projects we are supposed to talk with and work with and we probably those those folks maybe don't know even that you know secrets really actually exists and we should invite like one project one by one and just get every project here and have 20 minutes for that just to learn what is on their plate what problems they have and what they do and I'm pretty sure they should be happy to do that so let's let's pick some project if you picked let's start with with that and just ask them directly if they are happy to do so I think that's a great idea yeah and and to be completely open and transparent I just joined their Slack channel about 20 minutes before the meeting and it's just the one that I haven't personally gotten my hands dirty with so that's completely arbitrary that's why if there's a better first couple or a folks here are from projects and would like to put their put their hat in the ring please please do all right well I can take an action to reach out to the litmus project administrators or leaders and circle back either in channel or in the next meeting if it takes that long amazing and and let's pick even another one and schedule even in advance to have it recurring I think this is oh yeah I'd like to curate a roadmap of them and just have them on a cadence that would be great I think it would also help build trust within the community and just you know humans like novelty right if in terms of community building like you know people will be more likely to join if we if we have a roadmap and we have a reason for people to come to learn new things I would be also maybe before we start actually asking people maybe we can agree what we can share in terms of what agenda we are expecting right because I don't think we want to spend maybe 20 minutes in how to deploy it what amazing future it gives we are what problems they having what we can help with or what they expect for CCOPSERA we need to help them with right maybe something on this as well so what if we had a template like a slide template that kind of it's not too prescriptive but it provides some guidance because again we don't want just marketing we don't want you know architecture type stuff okay well maybe that's a better goal for the next meeting for so maybe over the next two weeks I'm happy to chime in but I can make a GitHub issue for it and we can just track it people can contribute that way and again you know if anyone on the call here has experience doing this in the past and has guidance please feel free to chime in they get have issue I'll put it in the notes a little later does anyone else have other feedback before we move on okay I guess the next ones all you okay so yeah I don't have too much to too much of new status I was on holidays but then we definitely move on our little project of Slytics let me link it again so what is available right now is that you can take it and it will work against Thanos and produce your and there is ongoing PR to against for remote tweet protocol so it will allow materials to park it file and this was kind of needed internally but like we are we want to extend that and explore and experiment with different inputs maybe maybe M3DB maybe Cortex but also different output files so it needs something like this that will be kind of efficient ideally please go on and and and sorry your audio was a little garbled for me did you say Avro is the I don't know if it's me or everybody I think it's Barthes for me too okay well while his ISP recovers I could chime in that over the last two weeks I said last meeting oh wow can you be a parter I think we're getting but anyway so what we've built so we have our own anomaly detection back in that's worked off some custom time series database and in the last two weeks my update from there is we've now got an MVP working of using Prometheus data we basically just start with a PromQL query and hit our Cortex deployments in our case but it's just a PromQL endpoint and the actual analysis is still done on a copy of the data that's kept in a MySQL database so we've added Prometheus as a time series and the folks that have built the service have been surprised by Prometheus and particular some of the things that can be done prior to query time around setting up recording rules to pre not to go too deep but we've got sort of the legacy pre I don't know how to say it's your new project and so we would hope that in the next two to four weeks once we've got more at scale versions working of not using this we could then have a baseline with which to compare using this new API to go directly to Parquet. I suspect just in a hand waving back in the napkin perspective that it will be much more cost effective and performant but we're happy to share those results as well Hello This is Ozan This is Ozan Hello I can jump in from this analytics case and of C6 tool started but dropped I think he will try to say there is a plan for much more performant way to do this kind of file format conversion if there is a patchy arrow project it is based on a memory model a common memory model which allows you to easily convert than to a Parquet file, a Pandas data frame or an Apache Spark there is a plan for that it is good to mention I think that's all Thanks for that Ozan Were you saying that you have tools to do this or that you have this requirement No, I think Ozan is saying that actually we are thinking that initially the problem is that this memory model it's really language dependent if you are using Python you are winning because arrow is in Python however in Golan those things are very very simple let's say there is some basic support for it but the problem is it's not really portable between processes and stuff like that and that's why this arrow flight was proposed and this is essentially a GRPC API however it's not well introduced yet and the main point behind our try with this Opslytics is that first we need to establish what APIs people want once they start using it then we can think how we can optimize and scale it out but nothing was there even to start with to use Prometheus data in order to solve some analytic queries so once we have this connection the plan is to actually find the pain points and improve the scalability there so let's start with something but yes there is definitely a way forward to optimize if needed so thank you Ozan for mentioning this so if folks want to use I don't know where the echo is coming from is it me if folks wanted to use other backends like timescaleDB or other things that support remote read remote write is it possible to do that or is it still is the current state that you really need to be using Thanos in order to experiment with the API it is not the Thanos related thing it is currently working project in Apache site there is some libraries working for example Apache Spark merged that project to better support pandas data frame conversion it is using in other community project we can say but not integrated in our site we plan to use or integrate to our project yeah I'm not sure if you are talking about the same thing but the essentially what you are asking here right now Thanos and Prometheus are supported because this is what input we need however yeah I mean it's just adapters so we are essentially having all those formats from Thanos and Prometheus into the data frame in memory and then we just out of the market or flight or whatever that's the current kind of idea so whatever arrow will improve Apache arrow we can definitely use to move to panda and more maybe to other spark and so on so definitely we are looking into those areas as well okay thank you I just heard so it's Apache arrow not arrow yes arrow like you know with a bow yeah I'm familiar it's a super cool library but yeah yeah we are just experimenting so please if you are in heavy need for example in some specific conversion maybe I don't know like analytics from log lands or tracing or things like that we are definitely want to hear your feedback if you are even looking into areas like this cool I think that's all we had on the pre done agenda we've got a couple minutes left open floor is there anything folks would like to announce raise discuss hi this is sunku so one of the topics in the chat in the slack was about discussing the link I posted with the opnfe parameter project not sure if you want to talk about or if you have questions on that or if you have questions on that sure can you copy this maybe link to the doc or something so we can see that right yeah I think I posted it in the doc here echo I'm just opening the doc yeah I pasted it I pasted it just to give you some context I work in the Bartek can you yourself I think it's you I think it's you thank you yeah so pretty much work in the opnfe open platform for network function virtualization community and it's one of the project in that community is barometer so which focuses on monitoring and exporting the metrics via Prometheus or influx and provide a better monitoring and reference solutions to rest of the NFE infrastructure so within NFE infrastructure we focus on open stack and Kubernetes based deployments so within barometer we provided a reference example of how we could deploy something like collecting for example with Prometheus and Grafana I could visualize various hardware metrics and we also our team consists of like red hat and Intel folks mostly I work for Intel essentially so we contribute to collect the telegraph and looking into node exporter communities contributing various hardware plugins and integration points within these communities so there one click install link that I have posted there as just a set of scripts that you can deploy to have easy collect the influx and Grafana stack and now we are looking to provide a similar deployment with Prometheus so yeah open to questions if there is any discussion here yeah I think we started this similar discussions like last maybe maybe two meetings ago about having some essentially installation for demo purposes right so our idea was to essentially give people a way to quickly play around and experiment with those things so that was our goal and definitely we are looking into adding more project as well not on Prometheus so the question here is that what's your goal behind all of this do you care about like one click installation of production deployment or just demo or and what exactly you know projects you want to have involved I guess Prometheus only right yeah so I mean more or less the observability stack overall I guess the main goal for us is one is from open a V community perspective and the overall community is looking to provide a reference stack for service providers and operators so that they can deploy open stack or Kubernetes have methodology to do life cycle management and observability so essentially to integrate our reference into that reference solution and then service providers would use that reference solution to have it production ready within their environments so that's open a V side of things and other side at least from Intel the customers we work with provide this reference stack with a set of metrics and configurations where they can easily understand what is Prometheus what kind of metrics they would get for example or telegraph and understand how would it would impact their production environments so that they can move on to something like Prometheus or that type of solutions so one is so essentially providing examples to the folks we work with as to what can be possible using this software using this software yeah amazing no I think this is definitely a similar similar goal I would yeah so the the key part is to make sure you connect with people and you announce this in the I guess Prometheus community some way of telling hey this is how you can contribute this and this is how we we are looking for tips depending if you want to do it internally or so what but you'll be amazing to have essentially like teamwork on this to enable reference architecture with Prometheus and then maybe others other systems as well but it looks like we are essentially looking on the metrics side for now so definitely yeah and if you if you have that then this can be used for for our demo purposes as well that makes sense what exactly you are using for this I don't know one click installation or any pattern technology behind that any language or how do you construct those things how you deploy those things yeah currently it's a simple set of Ansible laybooks sorry I could hear you go yeah it's Ansible scripts where you can building Docker containers with Prometheus and Grafana and with the preset of configurations preset of metrics plugins that you can deploy and visualize in Grafana what's going on on top of this of course I also run the close loop automation working group within OpenV so we are building solutions there and also okay how can you leverage alert manager how can you leverage Kubernetes extensions like telemetry or scheduler integrate with Prometheus and how can you leverage this for your container workloads low latency packet processing workloads so that's again we are building some reference solutions there so when you mention provide this info in the Prometheus community of course I posted this in Slack but how else would you suggest I share some of the work going on yeah sure first of all I think there is already Ansible you know how it's called play playbooks or something for for Prometheus and we are using that for our demo Prometheus examples so maybe it will be just easiest talking to the right people and they can share what they have and it will be much easier to start with so what I would do I would go to Prometheus website and there is community section and then just choose the main is Prometheus Def probably and just describe the same thing you describe on the Slack channel and this is the main is everyone just use it so do that and hopefully we can connect you to the Ansible people and yeah looks that might work definitely it's a definitely good start but once this is done let us know how it goes and we are definitely looking for some demo on how does those different projects looks like for the telco for example use cases that sounds exciting yeah for sure I'm hoping to be a regular to this meeting so as we have a couple of demos ready so we can share it here yeah thanks very much for your feedback and your contribution to the discussion I think we are just about time at which point the zoom from the CNCF will arbitrarily cut us all off so we can leave the way we want to earn about 100 seconds we can leave the way zoom will have us leave but is there anything else that folks want to give a shout out about before we're cut off alright well with that I hope everyone has a safe couple of weeks I guess I'll see you online and in two weeks and thank you again for everyone thank you for your feedback thank you