 Take away, civil engagement lives here. Aloha and bienvenidos to Hispanic Hawaii, and Richard Concepcion. For many years, immigration had played an important role in the development of our nation. But today, immigration reform is at the center stage of our political debate. Immigration reform affects millions of people, and the nation is divided over the right solution of how immigration will impact our nation and the best way to manage. Today's guest is Claire Hanoes. She is an attorney and the founder of Aloha Immigration Firm. She's here to help us to understand what is happening with the immigration reform and the DACA program. Bienvenida, the Hispanic Hawaii. Gracias. Es un placer estar aquí contigo. OK, gracias. So Claire, let's start. But if you can tell me a little bit about yourself and what motivates you to become an attorney. Sure. So my father was an attorney, and I saw from an early age how he could use his skills to help other people. And then when I was in university, I traveled to Nicaragua and El Salvador and Guatemala, and I became really taken by the stories of people there and the struggles that they were having, and then met refugees from those countries in the United States. And so I was really inspired by, especially the immigration attorneys I met who were playing a really critical role in their lives and decided that that's what I wanted to do too. So my husband and I moved to Honolulu in 1995, and I went to the Richardson School of Law between 96 and 1999, and really to get my law degrees so that I could practice immigration law, and that's what I've been doing ever since. Well, thank you so much for what you do for the community. It's really an honor to be able to do the work that I do, so thank you. Well, we have many questions that we came from the viewers. Hopefully we'll be able to cover all of them. It's not that we can recommend you do a part to it. Yeah, I know you've got many more questions than we have time for, so I'm very happy to come back and do a follow-up. OK, perfect. Why did we need an immigration reform? Right, well, basically it's been over 20 years since there's been any kind of overhaul of our immigration laws. And the overhaul that came, the last real big one in 1996, really had some very repressive elements of it that made it very difficult for people to immigrate to the United States. It made it very difficult for people if they had any kind of even minor criminal infraction to be able to stay in the United States. And it's estimated right now that there's at least 12 million undocumented people in the United States. So there's been a push since the Bush administration for what's called comprehensive immigration reform, where that pairs border security along with providing a path for the undocumented people who are living among us in our country today, a path to permanent residency and then citizenship. But we all know that we saw even under the Obama administration, we weren't able to get there under the Trump administration. We think we're really not going to be able to get there. And so right now, advocates and immigrants are really in a defensive mode and just trying to keep it together until we get something better. Oh, wow. That's 20 years. Yeah. Yeah, it's been a long time. Let's talk about from the economy point of view. I have a question right here. Does the immigrant contribute to the economy? Do they pay taxes? Or they don't pay any taxes? Or they're just trading or economy? Right. There's a lot of research done by economists on the pros and cons of immigrant labor in the United States. And again, when we talk about immigrant, we should break down. There are different groups. There are legal immigrants, people who are here as permanent resident. And then there are people who are undocumented or unlawful immigrants who are here either. They came on a visa. They entered legally in the United States. And then they overstayed. Or for different reasons, they entered the country illegal and are still here with us. Even those people who entered illegally, the majority of them filed tax returns. They can get taxpayer ID numbers. They contribute greatly to the social security system. And it's estimated about $15 billion a year undocumented immigrants put into the social security system. That's money that they will never, ever get back. And that's actually helping to shore up the social security system that people who have lawful status benefit from. So study after study shows that immigrants contribute far more to the economy than they take away. Wow, that's great. So also, we want to know about how an immigrant applied for the visa and how many different type of visas is available for an immigrant. Oh, gosh. If you look at the types of visas, it's almost like an alphabet soup, really. I mean, there's a B1, a B2, a T, an E, an E1, E2, E3. So lots and lots of different types of visas depending on the reason that the person wants to come to the United States. So what people also need to remember is it's, say, for a visitor visa. So for someone from another country, there are many countries close to 40 where someone can come to the United States for up to 90 days. And stay as a visitor under what's called the Visa Waiver Program. So they just have to fill out a quick online application. There's a background check that's part of that. And they don't have to actually physically go into the embassy and apply for a visa. For everyone else, though, to come into the United States, they have to go through a pretty expensive process to actually get a visa stamp in their passport to allow them to come into the United States. So there are people in Hawaii on student visas. There are people here on tourist visas. There are people who are here as immigrant investors, who are here on certain visas. People who are here as exchange visitors. Lots and lots of visitors. But it's also for people from many countries, very difficult to even get a visitor visa. I have many clients from Mexico who have legal status here, and their parents or their brothers, say, wants to come and visit them. And they apply for visas in Mexico. And those visas are oftentimes not approved. And they're denied because, especially if the person coming to visit doesn't have a whole lot of money and doesn't have a whole lot of financial ties to their home country. So it really does discriminate against people based on their economics. Yeah, economic. Oh, how do you know that? Absolutely. Absolutely. So those people are often denied because the government feels that they have what's called immigrant intent, meaning that they're going to come and stay and not go back. And it's true that some people do come and not go back, but the majority of people do return. So what would happen in the person coming on the visa and they decide to stay? Can they still apply for another visa after they came in and stay illegally? It really depends on the type of visa. Some types of visas you can extend for years. Some types of visas, such as a visitor visa, you might be able to extend once if you have a really good reason, but usually not more than that. So usually if someone wants to stay in the United States, then they're what's called an intending immigrant. And they have to get lawful status through becoming a legal permanent resident. And that's a very difficult and very limited path because generally to become a lawful permanent resident or have what's called a green card, you have to be sponsored by either a very close family member, usually a parent, a spouse, an adult child over 21 or in some cases a brother or sister, or you have to be sponsored by an employer. And usually the employer visas are very, very difficult to get because you have to be super highly skilled, almost have an extraordinary ability in many things. So it's difficult. It's very, very difficult to get a green card and be able to stay in the United States, which is why so many people stay unlawfully. Well, a lot of people was asking this question. Thank you so much for answering. That was a very difficult one. So what happened is a person stays illegally and they get notified, the notice of a peer to go into an immigration court. What is the next step after they get that notification? So they should really contact an immigration attorney for advice. So a notice to appear is a document that is given to a person from Immigration and Customs Enforcement that has the charges for why the person is believed to either be in the country illegally or to have somehow violated the terms of their immigration status. The notice to appear is generated by the Department of Homeland Security and then it's filed with the immigration court and the immigration court will then send out a notice of hearing telling the person that the person has to come to immigration court for a hearing. And the immigration court in Honolulu is located at the federal building. We have two full-time immigration judges and immigration court for many people is a very scary, it's a very scary complicated process. Immigration law is a very complicated area of the law. And so the person needs to really try to get legal representation or get some good advice. And then the person really needs to go to court and show up for that hearing because if the person doesn't, then the person will be ordered deported in absencia or that's basically if the judge calls your name and you're not there, then you end up with a deportation order. Oh wow. Yep, yep. And then you end up being oftentimes a fugitive. And then- That's not good. At some point, I just going to come looking for you. Wow, that's difficult. So let me ask you, for what countries are the majority or the immigrant camp to United States or to Hawaii? Yeah, so the United States is a very different kind of population in many ways than Hawaii in terms of demographics. So I looked this up a little bit and it won't be very surprising. The largest immigrant groups to Hawaii are from the Philippines, first of all, the majority. And then China, Korea, Japan, and then Vietnam. And Vietnam is about, I think, 3%. The Philippines makes up about 40%. So large numbers. From, in the United States as a whole, the vast majority are from Latin America. Okay, so Mexico and countries further south. And then the second largest group as a whole was Asia and Southeast Asia. And that wasn't really broken down, but I would imagine that China and India are two of the big populations. Yeah, a lot of people really think that it's just Latinos and they don't realize they don't get where all the Katie that is from all over the place. And they come to United States for different way of life. Right, right, for different reasons, for different opportunities. And yeah, I mean, we do hear immigration from Mexico kind of dominates the national agenda when people are talking about immigration. And we do have immigrants from Mexico documented and undocumented in Hawaii, absolutely. But when you think about the Philippines population, that's the, and the people from the Philippines, the vast majority are here lawfully. I mean, every once in a while I'll meet someone who came and came on a visitor visa and overstayed. But the vast majority of those people who waited in lines for many, many years to be able to come to the United States after a US citizen family member filed a petition for them. And sometimes those waits can be up to 24 years. 24 years, that's a long time waiting. That is a long time. So if you're filing a petition for, if you're a US citizen and you're filing a petition for a brother's sister from the Philippines, the wait's about 24 years. From Mexico, it's close to that. Wow, that's a long time. It is, yep, yep. Wow, that's why we need a reform for the immigration, right? Well, yeah, there are different kinds of reforms for that, right? I mean, what the Republicans have proposed as reform is completely cutting out that category altogether. So brothers and sisters wouldn't even be able to petition for each other. Wow, that's hard. Yep. Well, let me ask you about legal immigrants who come to Hawaii, but they have a driver license from California. California issued driver license to legal immigrant. Can they stay in Hawaii? Are they able to work in Hawaii? Or for any ex-risen, they get caught in Hawaii. They can get deported or they just become an illegal immigrant. Sure, I mean, if someone, there are many people who are in the United States unlawfully who have legal driver's licenses. Actually in Hawaii, and this is something that I worked with a group of people on, now we have the ability for people to, regardless of immigration status, get a driver's license. It's called a limited purpose driver's license. It's not valid to get on a plane. It's not what's called real ID compliant, but it is valid for driving and also for getting car insurance. So that's really important for people and a good opportunity that we have in Hawaii. But just having a driver's license does not give anyone any legal status. So people are still very much at risk when they travel. Even domestically, they can be. There was a situation a few years ago at the Honolulu Airport where there were a number of TSA officers who were, got the glorious nickname of the Mexicaners. Mexicuciners. Mexicuciners. Oh my goodness. And if you Google, Honolulu. I will do the Mexicuciners. I can't remember if it was the Star Bulletin or the Advertiser, but Google Honolulu TSA, Mexicuciner, and the story will come up. And what was happening was that people, even if they were flying neighbor island, these kind of rogue TSA officers were looking beyond the passport into whether or not the person had of these or not. And often the person didn't and then they would call Immigration and Customs Enforcement. So it was clear racial profiling and they were fired. But it's dangerous for people to travel if they're out of status. Many people do. Many people have to, but there's a risk. So just having a driver's license does not give anyone the legal ability to work. Well thank you so much for clear that because a lot of people misunderstand having a driver's license, they are good to go. No, no, no. And oftentimes really even travel is difficult, which is a real problem in Hawaii because of course if you're in the continental U.S., you can get in a car and can go anywhere. And travel from one state to another, right? Go all the way down to Tierra Del Fuego if you want to. But here, if you're on Maui, near Big Island and you don't have identification that would even be valid to get you on a plane, you're stuck. Wow, that's true. All right, we're gonna take a quick break. Great. We're gonna return after this important message. Hi, I'm Dave Stevens, the host of Cyber Underground. Every Friday here at 1 p.m. on thinktechkawaii.com and then every episode is uploaded to the Cyber Underground. That library of shows that you can see of mine on youtube.com and I hope you'll join us here every Friday. We have some topical discussions about why security matters and what could scare the absolute bejesus out of you if you just try to watch my show all the way through. Hope to see you next time on Cyber Underground. Stay safe. This guy looked familiar. He calls himself the Ultra Fan, but that doesn't explain all this. What? He planned this party, planned the snacks, he even planned to coordinate colored shirts, but he didn't plan to have a good time. Now you wouldn't do this in your own house so don't do it in your team's house. Know your limits and plan ahead so that everyone can have a good time. All right, welcome back to Hispania White and Richard Concepcion. I'm here with Clea Anusa. She is an attorney and the founder of Aloha Immigration firm and she's here helping us to understand what is happening with the immigration law and DACA program. And welcome back. Thank you. All right, let's continue with the question. I have a question right here and it's specifically about the benefit that an immigrant can get from the community we have for stamp, we have Social Security, Medicaid, can an immigrant can apply for those benefit? Right, so green card holders or in other words, lawful permanent residents are eligible for most public assistance programs. Some of the programs have the caveat that the person has had a green card for five years prior to applying. And I would say really look online for the National Immigration Law Center, N-I-L-C dot org has really good information about public benefits, again, N-I-L-C dot org. And you really have to look kind of benefit by benefit to see whether or not you are eligible. And it is important to remember that people who are undocumented don't qualify for any of these programs. But sometimes someone might be undocumented but the child might be a U.S. citizen or the child might be a lawful permanent resident. Oh, that's a good point. And oftentimes those children are eligible for those benefits and they should absolutely take advantage of them. I mean, we live in a country that doesn't provide healthcare for everyone so people have to get it however they can. However they can, that's a good point. What is the advantage and disadvantage a person say, well, I'm going to self-deporting and I go back to my country. What is the advantage and disadvantage to return back? Oh, yeah. God, I've, so I think part of what the plan that the government has is to make it so miserable for people who are undocumented to stay in the United States that they just kind of throw in the towel and what's called self-deport. You know, if people didn't have family ties, it would be a lot easier. That's true. You just say, oh, I'm done, I'll leave. Right, right, right. And I've worked with a lot of people who were single males, they were here because they had a very difficult time economically where they were born, they were here to send money back for their families and I have a lot of respect for that. And it's not, financially it's difficult for them to go home, but home is where their family still is. The issue we have in Hawaii and many other all across the United States is that oftentimes these people who are being put in difficult situations and being, when we talk about self-deportation oftentimes they're moms or dads or they have spouses who are US citizens or permanent residents. And depending on the manner how they enter the United States, sometimes they can get green cards through those spouses but oftentimes they cannot, especially if they entered the country initially illegally. So the question about self-deportation is really, really complicated. If someone's been in the United States for more than a year out of status, so if they entered on a visa and then overstayed that for more than a year or if they came illegally and then they've been here for more than a year. If they leave the United States it automatically triggers a 10 year bar to re-entering the US. 10 years. 10 year penalty to re-entering. It's a penalty for the interest, of course they illegally. So even if someone files a petition for them and what happens is a person will then go to, it's a long expensive process. The person will then go to the embassy or council at abroad to get their visa and they'll be told, oh, well you were in the United States more than a year illegally and you have a 10 year penalty. So basically come back in 10 years. Or there's something also called a waiver where you can ask for special permission to waive that 10 year penalty but you have to prove extreme hardship to a qualifying family member in the United States. And children are not considered, in that provision, qualifying family members. So if you're just a parent and you don't have a spouse who's a US citizen or permanent resident, say if you have five children who are US citizens and they depend on you, you do not qualify to get that waiver. And I don't know if Congress just forgot to include children when they drafted that language or if they were just being especially cruel. But you see the situation it sets up is that people don't wanna leave because coming back, coming back is so difficult or impossible. And if people re-enter the country illegally, then there's another 10 year bar and it's a permanent bar, there's no waiver available for that. And the other thing that the government's doing and doing more and more is prosecuting people for criminal illegal re-entry where people, even if they have no other criminal history but are coming back just because they need to be with their wife and kids and they get caught, people are spending between three and five years in federal prison. So only for the crime of re-entering the United States. A re-enter the United States. Wow, that is so difficult. So the penalties are really, really harsh and that's again one of the reasons why people just go lower and lower and deeper and deeper into the shadows because they know that there are no options for them which gets back to why do we need immigration reform because that's no way to live and that's no way to raise a family. That's another concern, nobody wanna come forward and provide the information, say I'm here illegally because they're so afraid. Right, because the consequences are so. The consequences are really, really harsh. All right, let's talk about DACA. Tell me what DACA is and how this program can affect Hawaii. Right, so DACA is an acronym for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals. It was a program that was started under the Obama administration after many, many years of undocumented youth saying we are here undocumented, unafraid. We need something for us. We need something for our families. It was a very, very sympathetic group of young people. Many of them were in college. Many of them, all they knew were the United States. Some of them entered the country illegally with their parents. Some of them entered legally, say as their parents came as tourists and they came along a family vacation for whatever reason, everyone decided to stay. And to qualify for DACA, you had to have come before your 16th birthday. You had to have been under 31 by a certain date in 2012. 2012. 2012, right, June 15th, 2012. So it's a narrow group of people anyway that qualify. You had to have continuously resided in the United States so no long absences. No absences, clearly the country has to be. Or you could leave for short periods of time, but most people didn't because they would not have been able to get back in anyway. And you had to have a relatively clean record and had shown that you had either graduated from high school or were working on your high school degree or your GED. So it was for people who had been really clean and about 800,000 people nationwide signed up for this. And what happened was if the application was approved, if you, and there was a background check and all that, and there was an application fee and a biometrics fee. So if all of that was approved, then you got a two-year work authorization card. So it was, the way I thought of it was kind of a bubble from deportation. It didn't, it wasn't a path to a green card. It wasn't citizenship at all. It just temporarily protected you from deportation. So if you did get stopped for a red light violation, you would not be put into deportation proceedings if you were DACA protected. It was risky for people to come forward because it was put out by an executive order and what one president gives is an executive order another can take away. And that's actually exactly what happened in September under President Trump. He gave yesterday, March 5th, the deadline for Congress to come up with a fix. And Congress, of course, did nothing. Well, some senators tried, it's not that nobody tried, but they were not able to come up with any kind of compromise agreement. And so, thankfully, DACA's been challenged in the courts. And so the courts have said that, two district courts have said that people can continue to renew their applications, but the government doesn't have to accept any new applications. But I just know- So this is a cash 22. It is. And I just met with a military family last week and they have two children and her DACA expires next January. So it's too early for her to apply to renew because you have to apply within, I think it's 120 days, 120, 150 days. I need to double check. But within a relatively short period before. So you can't, if you're good until next January, you can't put in that application now. And nobody knows what's going to happen in the courts. The Supreme Court has said that it's not going to hear it. They're not going to be able to fast track it up to the Supreme Court. So it has to be sorted out in the district courts below. And for this family with two beautiful young kids and they're like, what do we do? And I say, I don't know, we all, we wait. If you're praying kind, you pray, you contact your congressional leaders and senators. And thankfully in Hawaii, all four of our representatives in Congress and the Senate have been very, very pro DACA, very good advocates, but the problem is a lot of the other ones who have not been. So we have roughly about 800 dreamers right here. The numbers I've heard are more like 600 or so. Nobody knows for sure, right? And then people apply and then sometimes they move away. Sometimes people, like this family that I met that has, where the wife has DACA, she didn't apply for DACA here, but she's in the military and came with her spouse. So people move around a bit. Yeah, it's not a huge number, but for the, if you ever meet anyone who has it, you see the difference that it's made in their life and you see the incredible stress that this limbo period has had on them. And especially for people with children, for people with spouses and people with children, because they just don't know, they don't know what they don't know what to do. Yeah, they can't plan and we take for granted the ability to plan for what we hope to do next week or next year and they can't. They can't do that at all. Well, very difficult. So we hope for the best and we wanna say thank you so much for coming to Hispanic Hawaii. Thank you, it was my pleasure. It was really good to be here today. I think we might have to do part two. I'm happy to. All right, thank you. All right, we wanna say thank you so much for watching Hispanic Hawaii and don't forget that you can re-watch this program and many other programs on Think Tech Hawaii. Gracias y hasta luego.