 And welcome to Meon 5. We had a Christmas show, and now it's Valentine's Day. And the subject of tonight's show is about what sort of influence did the organized crime, the mob out of, say, Boston, had over the state of Maine at any point in time. And with me to discuss this are two gentlemen who were right in the thick of it. One of them is Bobby Luisi, a former maid man, a former couple regime with the Boston mob, as they call it. And Paul Tanzo, who also was involved with the Boston Mafia, the Boston Costa Nostra for a number of years. Gentlemen, first of all, Bobby, you've got a widely watched YouTube show. Tell us about it. Yeah. Yeah, it's the Bobby Luisi show. Okay. And Paul's my co-host on the show. We're on YouTube, and we do a live show every Wednesday night, and I do a lot of mob shows. Right. You know, I've got a lot of interviews, like what Michael Francis, Larry Maz, they're all these guys, you know, they're all good friends, they're all good people. So I do interviews, and I cover some stories, talking about the Boston mob. Right. And you folks are watched all over the world because let's face it, for anybody that watched the movie The Departed, or any of the movies, or any of the series about Whitey Bulge and all that sort of thing. So Rob, take us in the main. Tell us. Well, first of all, I want to make sure your show's on Wednesdays. Wednesday. And you're talking now about having a live show? Another live show. Yeah, we'll talk. Paulie's going to have a lot of people going to Paulie. Yeah. Ask her questions. Sure. A lot of people out there have a lot of problems. Paulies go with them. They do a lot of help with addiction and mental illness and homelessness because I suffered from all three of them. Sure. So I know how hot it is, you know. Good for you, Paulie. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. See, he's going to do a show and a segment on that. Okay. Excellent. That he can answer questions for people. So on every Wednesday, you can check out the Bob Louise show. And I've seen it several times, and it's excellent. You guys do a great job. Thank you. Fascinating. And as far as Maine is concerned, there have always been assumptions or conspiracy theories that the Mafia is involved with Scarborough Downs, you know, how prevalent is the Mafia here in Maine. And growing up with an Italian family in Bangor, actually my grandparents immigrated from Italy, settled on Atwell's Avenue in Providence, and knew Mr. Potriacca very, very well. And how he protected the neighborhood and actually what a good man he was. I know people will take offense to that, but he was. He treated the kids great. My father remembers him very, very well. And ultimately they moved up to Bangor, opened up a little Italian restaurant. And they always used to say, you know, are you guys involved with organized crime? That's correct. That's correct. I hated Baltimore. Well, no. But Bobby, talk about your connections to the state of Maine. Paul, you too. Well, I had a crew up in Welles, Maine. Welles, Maine. Up in Welles. In Welles. Yeah. Doing what? They dabbled in a few different things. I know. You can't name any names. I'm not going to name any names, but it was cocaine. Okay. There were some guns. There was a few different things that the crew was doing up there. And that went on for several years. Okay. We had that connection. Yeah. And I used to go sometimes to York Beach to meet them. Yes. You know, I never had drugs on me or carry drugs. But if there was a meeting, I would walk several times out of Welles to straighten out a few problems up there to let people understand that they were my friends. Right. Like Abish. Capish. Right. So I would go to York all the time and go to Welles. Yeah. Any further north? Yeah. How about all the way to the beach, ever? No, nothing up there. So just the southern part of Maine. Yeah. But I'm sure the crew that I was there, they were probably moving around pretty good. So basically, the primary thing that was going on that would have been illegal would have been sales of drugs. Sales of drugs. But no prostitution. No. No. You mentioned on my earlier show, The Dairy Run That Show, that no sale of heroin. Right. Folks considered cocaine to be kind of a social drug being bought by fairly affluent people, mostly partygoers of the 90s, right? Yep. And Paul, you too? Yes. Pretty much. That was my big thing, was moving cocaine and pot. Right. At one point, I think I was getting a thousand pounds of pot on the cuff and just tacking on 20,000 and flipping it. How did you folks feel when you started hearing about the legalization of marijuana? Was that good for you or bad for you? Well, now, you know, we've been out of the life for a long time, so it doesn't matter either way with us. The last shipment I got of marijuana from Arizona was probably 76 or 97. Yeah. Back when we were in school there. Yeah. We went back then. Right. And for you now, Paul and Bobby, it's a whole different life for you because what you're doing now is you're doing these podcasts, these YouTube's, in which you're now trying to educate basically the country on what this was like back in the day. Yeah. Right. Now, so other than the connections to York, any other ties to Maine, Portland, or anything like that? No. Bobby Garanty lived. Yes. And he was supposed to be my under-boss when he went to prison. We called him on. He lived at a government main. A government? Yes. He was up there. And he had a lot of people up here. We actually, was it Rockland, Maine? Yes. Rockland, yes. We had a piece of a lobster company up here, too. Really? Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting. We got a live lobsters off the dock. Yeah. My second show on Me On Five was about a couple of war heroes from Rockland, Maine, and my family, I have family from Rockland, Maine. I go to Rockland quite a lot. My first job out of Bowdoin College was on a radio station up there, W-R-K-E-D. So I do have some ties. I'm going to ask you, Bobby, you were involved in a murder case, correct? Yes. And can you tell us about that at all? Is it difficult to talk about? Well, it's really not good to talk about it. Okay. It accused me of being, either doing or being involved in over half a dozen murders. Okay. You know, I really can't talk too much about it. Right. It's a little tough. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I've taken some lives, yeah. Well, Bobby, I appreciate your honesty. I remember reading amongst all the other stuff about you, that they listed 23 people that were killed just involving that thing that you talked about in the early show. And your father and your cousin and your brother were killed in what would be called a hit, I guess. Would they call that a hit kind of thing? Well, it was kind of accidental. Okay. You know, it wasn't planned. Oh, okay. So this wasn't a planned thing, like, what do I think? No. Because when we go on a hit, it's planned. Yeah. It's planned. We want to make sure that we're going to get who we're after, that we're going to get away. I mean, there's a lot to be put into killing somebody. It's not an easy thing to do because, listen, any young kid could go on the industry and shoot someone. Right. People could do that. But actually execute it and get away with it is a different story. Like the Paul Castellano hit in New York with Gravano and Gotti, that was clearly an execution and planned. Many of them have been like that. How accurate do you think the movie, The Godfather was in terms of portraying the way it was, and that would have been like the 50s and 60s? How accurate do you think that movie was in terms of portraying the five families and the way they... I think they did a pretty good job with that. Yeah. You know, I really did. You know, that movie's the classic. We all know this. Yes. We all loved that movie. Yeah. It was great. Yeah, everybody does. Don't you think that... One of my favorite movies, and my son Teddy's here in the audience, and he introduced me to a Bronx Tale, Chaz Polymer. That's our favorite. That's my favorite. To me, it's the best. It's the best. And I've seen him do the one man show and the musical and all of that. But you had the Bronx Tale, The Godfather, Casino, Goodfellas. It glamorized to some degree your life that you actually lived. What kind of impact did that have on you as Lacoste and Austra mobsters actually living this day in and day out? You saw those movies, what did it do in terms of your whole culture and did you think that was cool? Yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, I wasn't into the gangster movies, to be honest with you. Yeah. You know, we were actually living it. Sure. These people all actors. Yeah. The Bronx Tale I loved. Yeah. And I'm going to tell you why. Yeah, tell us. Chaz was a neighborhood, Chaz was a neighborhood sunny, a neighborhood couple. Yes. And the way he ran his crew, that's how the mob is. Okay. You know, I mean, I know everything that happened with Goodfellas and all those other movies. Oh, yeah. I understand that. Yeah. And like Donnie Brasco? Yes. Donnie Brasco, yes. Yeah. There was a lot of privileges taken there. I know a lot more about that story. Right. Yeah. I mean, they're all pretty accurate in their own way, but I'm not really against the movie guy. Yeah. Well, I mentioned to you... I kind of criticize them, to be honest with you. Do you have... Francaise does as well on this show. Yeah, that's right. He takes a critical look at it. I mentioned to you that I'm friends with Bobby Riedel, whose real name is Robert Riddarelli. And one of his good friends is Chaz Pellmentary. Oh, wow. And I'm working on a project now for Bobby Riedel, in which Chaz has been consulted. Wonderful man, by the way. Yes. I haven't met him, but I think I'm possibly going to. One of the things that I wanted to ask you, the biggest show that hit TV when it hit was The Sopranos. Oh, yeah. Did you ever have any involvement with the New Jersey folks? Because you're doing Philadelphia. You originally... You worked in Boston. You went right through Jersey. So how about the New Jersey people, right? Was that... Well, that's a good question. That was supposed to be after the Cavalcate family. Okay. And I was at prison with several of them. You were? Yeah, I was. Nice, great guys. Really? You had the Rotunda, you had the Cabo, the video ocean. These are all big names in the family. Sure. The Sopranos itself, I still watch. I do like that. We love it. Yeah. Yeah. But what? Well, listen, except when you're in a war, you know, they kill too many people in the show. They get away with a little too much. Yeah. I mean, they never got caught. Yeah. But most of the time, you know, it's pretty accurate. Okay. You know, kind of like Tony, I had the blonde wife, had the son of the daughter at the time. Really? Oh, yeah. So you were very... So what was your, quote, legitimate business with Tony, it was waste management. What was your legitimate cover? I was opening up restaurants and coffee shops and... Okay. You know? I was doing that. Okay. So you were known for being a restauranteer when in fact you were a mob boss. Yeah. And Paul, what were you doing? I was always taking classes for something, one thing or another. Jewelry classes. Yeah. Jewelry, Bladesmith, course completion from Boston Architectural Center. I'm a big art fan and museums and stuff. You know, it gets to the point that the civillians are so bad on us that no matter what we open or try to do. Right. Even if we try to go legit, it's our point. Bobby, still today? Yeah. I was just going to ask you. You think you're still today? I mean, were they... I mean, back to Boston. Yeah, right. They were good in 2018. Yeah. And the first visitor I got was the state police and the DEA. Wow. Yeah. They wanted to know why I was back here. Okay. So they just... I mean, they just... Hi. We're here. What are you doing here? Yeah, basically. And what do you say? I want to know. I just went back here. I'm going to sell cars. I don't want to know nothing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And they trusted you with that? No. No. They followed me for a little while. I got a few visits. Yeah. It was funny. It was good. But great. They were good people. Yeah. This is going to sound like a stupid question, gentlemen, but with... Back then, they didn't have a TV on every lamp post. Yes. So wouldn't it be a little difficult to do some of the things that were being done back then, if there were all these television surveillance cameras everywhere? Oh, yes. And the DNA? The DNA? Oh, yeah. No. Today, it's really hard. Yeah. It's really hard today. Yeah. I'm just going to... Rob, you're taking... Yes. What's happening today? Good question. Well, I could talk for the Petriaca family. They're still there on Boston. Yeah, sure. Yeah. My old crew was still on Boston. The Philly family. Okay. That old... My faction's still there. Right. Yeah. And Philadelphia, they're building their family back up again. Yeah. I see. So this... But the problem is, you know, when you were back at Jerry and Jewel those days... Yes. And I know all these people will know that name. Oh, yeah. You know, this government wasn't as hard. Mm-hmm. There was big... The numbers business, the loan shark business. Right. Today, really, what could you really grab unless there's drugs? Right. You know, there's really not much out there anymore that you could grab. Gambling is legal everywhere. It's all legal. Legalized marijuana. Yes. What can you guys do? Sell cotton candy. That's why they got nothing left. Yeah. So basically, it's dying. It'll never be the same. I got picked up in 1999. Yeah. On drugs, Bobby? Yeah. Was that a drug charge? Yeah. And the murder indictments came later. Yeah. And what we always said, this is going to be the last of it. Yeah. The mark changed in the year 2000. Right. When we were gone. The violence was over. Everything was over. Mm-hmm. And it quieted it down. You know? And it's never going to be the way it was. The 90s in Boston and Philadelphia were wild. Yeah. We were the last of the cowboys, basically, at the turn of the century. And you said there was, quote, a war going on, which would be similar to what we read about with a war between the families in the Godfather and the Sopranos, the wars that were going on. But now you're 100% legitimate. You get the TV show, both of you, and you're situated in Boston. Mm-hmm. And is that still have any influence, whatever, with anybody pulling shenanigans, or is it all legitimate? I'm really not sure. Yeah. I mean, when I go in there, I don't recognize anybody. Mm-hmm. You know, in our day, there were wise guys in every corner. Yeah. I see. You know, it's not like that anymore. Yeah. But you're still treated with respect every time and a lot of people go down there. Oh, yeah, a lot of people go down there. And I'm down there all the time. You know, but it's not. I actually film episodes. Mafia headquarters anymore. Yeah. The way it was. Yeah. If Gary and Julo's day and my day, that's all over the place. Are you feeling well-recognized when you walk around in the streets of Boston? Oh, yeah. Still am. Yeah. Yeah. Even when we go shopping, people stop them outside. I'm kidding. Yeah. You know, when Kova was really bad, I still take care of my mother or father. You do? Yeah, I go shop a father. I do everything for them. I take care of them, the doctors. I love them. Yeah. You know, my stepfather. Stepfather. Great guy, Santo. Yeah. I get the mask on and I ask the kid, my mother went to some Mexican mix, I don't know. So I asked the woman next to me, the kid heard it. He went around the garden and he came back to the package. I know who you are. Yo, Bobby Luis. Oh, really? I know that accent anywhere. Recognize it. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of places we go, people recognize us now. You know, it's really something. Yeah. Everybody told you that, for those of us that watched The Godfather, that Vincent Pastore, Big Pussy, you're a lot better looking than Big Pussy, because similar sort of look about you. Yeah. Yeah. You're very well presented, but you look, I mean, you look like you know what you're doing. You believe this guy. When I walked in today, yeah, so you two have been friends most of your life. Oh, so that was a child. He grew up with my brothers and my younger cousins. Okay. He's a few years younger than me. And you would be how old am I going to ask you, Bobby? I'm 60. You're 60 and you are? I'm 57. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. What I was going to say is after you get out of prison, Bobby, you entered the witness protection program. Right. And as far as another main connection, this is one that you might want to talk about. You kind of moved around the country a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. You were in Maine? Can you talk about that, Bob? When I got out of prison, I wasn't immediately put in the witness protection program. Okay. So they brought me up here and they hid me up here. Okay. Up here? For a few months, yeah. Well, Sid, we started off with Tyre's to Maine. And here, you spend some time with us. That's why I brought it. That's why I brought it. You come to the show. I went and it keeps it. Yeah. So I was up here. Now I'm up in Maine. Yeah. I'm going to see where it was, but it was close by. Okay. So I was in a restaurant with the people that are taking care of me. Yeah. And a girl I knew from the night then was sitting there. She had married somebody. She lives in Maine now. Yeah. Happens to be in that restaurant. It comes running up to me, Bobby, how you doing? And I didn't know what to do because they're sitting with me over here and they're shocked that I'm in Maine and somebody knows me, you know? And that's incredible. Well, this is... Then they moved me out of Maine. They put me in New Hampshire. Live free or die. Yeah. Bobby, that's right out of the Sopranos when Tony's bringing his daughter up to Bowman and Colby. He goes into Colby and he recognizes a guy that supposedly is now a travel agent. Kills him. Now, one of the things that you were proud of is that you did not testify against anybody. No, I didn't. You were going to, but you reneged on your promise, correct? Yes. What happened? I was arrested on the cocaine charge, carried 10 to 12 years. And during the course of that, a very close friend of mine was in there. He was a Maine guy in the Patriarchal family. We were in Plymouth at the time. And he said, did you hear, Bobby, there's rare indictments coming down. So I asked my lawyer. He grabs Marty Madrull, used to be an AUSA, in the Boston office. So he comes down with Marty. He says, Bobby, they got your cold, your friends are ratting on you. You know, and I didn't know if it was one or two murders when I was. He says, I can get you the 10th to 12 right now on the drug charge, but you're not going to get out. You know, they're talking about it up there. They finally got you. You know, you know how the feds are, you know, when they got, they got their witnesses, they got their tape, whatever they got. So I decided I was mad and I decided to talk because I was tired of being a pink cushion. Sure. I knew of 13 men that I knew about that was given information on me when I was still on the street that had been arrested. So you know, it was polluted with informants, the whole system. So I says, all right, I don't want to be the pink cushion anymore, and I talked to the government. And the government wanted to give me a great deal. But I didn't have it in me to do that. You know, sometimes you make decisions that aren't right. So I had to renege. And because of that, you ended up doing some fairly serious time. Yeah, I reneged and I went to trial on my underlying indictment, and I got 20 years. And luckily I wanted a pill on that. I went back and got the trial, and it got 15 years. And you know, when I began the first show, the Derry Show, I said to you, are you pleased to be alive? And you said you are. Both of you. Yeah. I'm going to throw out a name now that is, I'm going to get a smile on both your faces when I throw out the name. Isabella Stuart Gardner. And I know, we know where those paintings are, does anybody know where the artwork is? All right. Nobody really knows. But that's how I got on the witness protection program. Get out of here. Yeah. This is fascinating. This is how I got it. I was ready to get out. Now I'm at 14 years, I'm divorced. Right. My money's all gone. Right. I don't know what I was going to do. I really had no place to come back to on Boston. I'll admit that. Yeah. You know, after 14 years, you lose all your money. Yeah. So they came to me over. They got in them. Now, Bobby Garanti, that lived up in Maine, there might have been some, actually some artwork up there. So we're sitting on the couch one day in our safe house, and something came on the TV. He says to me, Bobby, I know where they're buried. They're buried under a slab in Florida. They'll get them. I never realized the value, and I, you know, I didn't move things like that, because we already had New York connection, Philadelphia connection, so you want them to push it through that way. So I let it die. Not knowing the value, I just let it die. So they come to me, I told them the story, and it put pieces together for me. So they says, all right, we're going to help you get in the witness protection program. And they came to me for something else, about a case that was going on at Boston that I had nothing to do with. They just wanted me to, I was the boss at the time, so they just wanted me to come and give that lay out, like I'm kind of doing it today. And so they put me in the witness protection. That's how I got in there, was the God of Rock Museum. We always get accused of, they keep saying, let Paulie tell us where the papers are. Do you know where it is? I have a history of pulling scores, and at 18, I actually robbed the arms museum up Faneuil Hall. Don't get out of here. Yeah, yeah, me and my friend Billy Rod used his nickname. We were 18 at the time. No, we robbed the arms museum. And we pulled all kinds of scores back then, you know, whatever. We all know the reason. I said to you guys, the guy was going to get a smile to your face. I didn't realize I was going to get actual laughter. Because I was hoping Rob and I were hoping to solve the Isabella Stewart guy. Right here and now. Right here and now on this channel. And all of a sudden, the SWAT team comes in, and I'm like, oh my God, thank goodness for these two main guys that solved it, we can find all the papers. I was like 15 taking a, I was at 13, I think so, yeah. I have a big show. I channeled that. That's how I caught him. Do you? A very good man, Steve Kirkland. That's how I caught you, Bobby. I said 15. He goes, no, 13. Steve Kirkland is excellent, and I'm actually helping him on something right now, trying to recover. So when you do your shows, Bobby and Paul, do you show pictures of some of the people you're talking about? Oh yes. Oh yes. Okay. Boza, you did one. He was a notorious gangster in Boston. Did you know him at all or did you? No, I was too young. Too young at the time, but it was a great show. But I'm going to tell you a story about Joe Barum. Yeah. Well, you're about, you gotta be quick, go ahead. All right. Well, he used to love my mother's cooking. Yeah? Really? Yeah. That's a true story. Notorious gangster. My mother used to cook for a bar room, and he's Boston. Okay. And he used to go in there, and he loved their galamati, and lasagna. What a cook she is, too. Yeah. Really? Before we close, I do want to mention a friend of mine, a friend of Steve Schwartz, is in the studio with me here, Steve, a former president of the main criminal defense lawyers, and a gentleman by the name of Robert Napolitano. And Bobby Napolitano was a great lawyer here in Portland, and in his office he had a picture of himself sitting next to Raymond Patriarch at some sort of house committee. And I said, Bobby, why do you have the picture of this gentleman here? Well, Derry, that's Raymond Patriarch. I said, so you don't want a picture of you in Kennedy? You want to tell us something good? He goes, Derry, when people come in that I'm representing, which are mostly criminals, I tell them, that's what they want to see. They don't want to see a picture of me and Ted Williams. Raymond was bigger than Kennedy, but go ahead. Yeah, he was. So, gentlemen, I just can't thank you enough for coming here today. Yes, thank you guys. And Rob, I want to thank you for setting it up. I think I told you folks that thanks to my friend Rob, we had the last interview with Effley Bailey, who represented you as you told me in the earlier show. For pro bono, too. And that's what's amazing about it. And got you off. I just don't want to do a show on it, just get in touch with it, and I'll do the whole thing with you. We're going to do that, because Rob and I are focused on trying to have either a seminar or something special about Effley Bailey, because we were friends with him, as was Steve Schwartz, who I mentioned. So we're going to take you up on that offer. Folks, we're going to now break, and we're going to have dinner with these wonderful gentlemen. And I can't thank you enough for being on the show. My friend Rob, thanks for setting it up. By the way, Rob's son playing for Greeley on Saturday at the Expo against... That's right. We don't know about that. But they're seated number two. We give lots of luck to Teddy Baldacci. Gentlemen, thank you so much for coming. What a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, sir.