 We have all seen the Shaka Hola incident in Kilifi. We have seen how we have religious people involved. Pastas, pasta makenzi. Anagita mista makenzi. We have seen pasta-execel of New Life International Church being for allegedly he is involved in this incident, the Shaka Hola massacre. But now we are just asking ourselves, what is religion and what does religion really have to contribute in this conversation. Church has become such a, how do I do not want to say the wrong, yeah it's become a business, it's become a way of people, of these pastas extracting people in the name of God, you know, and it's not right, but if you didn't, if you are ignorant, you're following people, you're even calling them mum and dad. Azin? So for me, first of all, I believe, first of all, this whole thing about religion, Islam, Hindu, whatever, you are a Christian just because of your geographical location, you're an Indian just because of your geographical location, it's never that serious, yeah? Because I believe there is just one supreme being and then there are these other religions. So first things first, I feel like we've gotten to a space where, you know, people selling hope, selling hope is something that sells in this century because people are going through things, people are going through a lot, but if they find someone who is selling hope to them, they will hold on to them. But now my problem comes in where the government or rather there is freedom of just someone, you can start your own charge, you can start your own cult, you can start your own thing and people follow you. So I feel like for me, first of all, you should know yourself, know, read, if these, you believe in God, read the Bible for yourself, if you are Hindu, read the Bafgat Gita by yourself, if you are Islam, read the Quran by yourself. Then also, I also do feel like these small denominations, I feel like the government should come up with a way of regulating things because I do not understand how we have over 100 people who died just because you know of a church, I don't know. I just feel like also systems are put in the world to regulate and I think they should do their work. When I saw this Shakahola incident, first of all, I knew I've always known religion. Religion is a good thing, but also I feel like it's going to be the end of us. Especially Africans. So when I saw this Shakahola incident, I was like, what? It's getting this bad. I knew it's bad, but I didn't know it was that bad to a point whereby people are fasting. I mean, that's not even fasting. People are not eating because they are waiting to meet God. And the problem is ignorance because we don't seem to read those holy books for ourselves because you believe your pastor as a spirit of discernment, your mum and dad in church are the ones that know the Bible, they can translate to you, but I mean it's written in English and whatever in Swahili, you can read for yourselves and you can actually translate for yourself. For this thing of actually just waiting for people to do it for ourselves is what is going to be the end of us. You are watching Friends Vibes. All feelings are represented. What's up guys? Welcome back to Friends Vibes. My good name is Miss Kethingi and I'm joined by Nisa Abdi And I'm Liz Jackson, the rich girl. All right, rich girl. Now today's topic of discussion is, we have all seen the Shakahola incident in Kilifi. We have seen how we have religious people involved. Pastas, Pasa Makenzi. We have seen Pasa Ezekel of New Life International Church being allegedly involved in this incident. But now we are just asking ourselves, what is religion and what does religion really have to contribute in this conversation? Because we see the root thing of this whole incident is religion. What are your thoughts about this whole Shakahola issue? First of all, if everyone could just read whatever religion you are in. If you could read and understand the book of God, if you are reading Quran or if you are reading the Bible. I prefer if you all read and interpreted it for yourselves. Because the problem comes when someone else is interpreting the Bible for you. So now if you are being interpreted for the Bible by someone who is saying, who literally has manipulated the word of God to make it work around the kind of humanity he is doing. Those are inhumanities that they have been doing to people. But if people could just read the word of God and understand it by themselves. First of all, understand what you are reading. Understand the word of God first by yourself. Interpret it by yourself. When someone is telling you something, you don't look like you do unafatiliadu because this is the man of God who told me and now I believe it. You get. That's not okay. Read the word of God for yourselves. So for me, first of all, I believe, first of all this whole thing about religion, Islam, Hindu, whatever. You are a Christian just because of your geographical location. You are an Indian just because of your geographical location. It's never that serious because I believe there is just one supreme being and then there are these other religions. So first things first, I feel like we've gotten to a space where people are selling hope. Selling hope is something that sells in this century because people are going through things, people are going through a lot. But if they find someone who is selling hope to them, they will hold on to them. But now my problem comes in where the government or rather there is freedom of just someone. You can start your own charge. You can start your own cult. You can start your own thing and people follow you. So I feel like for me, first of all, you should know yourself, know, read. If you believe in God, read the Bible for yourself. If you are Hindu, read the Bafgat Gita by yourself. If you are Islam, read the Quran by yourself. Then also, I also do feel like these small denominations, I feel like the government should come up with a way of regulating things because I do not understand how we have over 100 people who died just because of a church. I don't know, I just feel like also systems are put in the world to regulate and I think they should do their work. When I saw this Shakahola incident, first of all, I knew I've always known religion. Religion is a good thing, but also I feel like it's going to be the end of us. Especially Africans. Yeah, for sure. So when I saw this Shakahola incident, I was like, what? It's getting this bad. I knew it's bad, but I didn't know it was that bad to a point whereby people are fasting. I mean that's not even fasting. Because they are waiting to meet God. And the problem is ignorance. Because we don't seem to read those holy books for ourselves. Because you believe your pastor has a spirit of discernment. Your mum and dad in church are the ones that know the Bible. Motha knew they can translate to you, but I mean it's written in English and whatever in Swahili. You can read for yourselves and you can actually translate for yourself. So this thing of actually just waiting for people to do it for ourselves is what is going to be the end of us. Honesty. So when I saw this Shakahola incident, I was like, oh lack of information again Jesus. It's this bad. I didn't know religion is getting this bad. Imagine to a point where people are fasting. Was he fasting? No, he wasn't. No, he doesn't look like he was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. But isn't that what you're preaching to your people? Wasn't he fasting in that cell? Why was he asking for food anyway? Exactly. I mean, you're supposed to fast so that you meet God with your people who have died. So that you all go like, come on. I really don't understand that. You can't be following someone like that to the point you are that ignorant. I'm like, what is it? You cannot follow. Honestly, you have to do what you're preaching for me to actually understand. Take you serious. Most of these pastors honestly, church has become such a business. It's become a way of people, of these pastors extorting people in the name of God. It's not right but if you're ignorant, you're following people, you're even calling them mum and dad. As in, you have to read the word of God for yourself. I believe even in Christianity because I know in Quran you are told to seek that knowledge. You are told to read and understand the Quran for yourself. And I believe also in Christianity. Even that word of God is there, right there in Manikwapo. You have to seek that knowledge, the knowledge of God. You have to understand it for yourself. People here out here are here to look for money. I heard people were giving him all his possessions. If you all are supposed to go to God, his possessions are available. So that's the idea. If only, exactly. I mean if you're taking possessions for me, you're taking my things and you could be taking it to the orphanages. I mean you're taking it to people who don't have. Apuna kwelewa, you get. But you're taking it for yourself. Sada kaya kanisa yote. You're here with a prado and redrovers every single day. You're coming from Karen. So you're here with a prado and redrovers every single day. And you're taking it to the orphanages and to the redrovers every single day. He's packed there to preach to you all. And then at the end of the day, we're going to see if there's anything like that in the Bible. For me, I have a very unpopular opinion which might get me in trouble But I feel we should do it. I feel all the pastors and all these people who preach should be graduates of theology. Thank you. They should be educated people because let me tell you something. These people who are being taken advantage of, if you look at it keenly, are people when you wakuku ma shambani. They are very easy to manipulate because they do not understand. I would dare a pastor to go in a runda and tell people wa kunyomaji na waji pakepa kuafo head and blessings will come. That cannot happen. They always target the weak people. That's why I do feel like all these churches should be regulated and these people, if you really want to preach the Word of God, be a graduate of theology, have books, have a degree. Kwa sababu awo pastor zuna pata. Ay, my God. Can you find ina... Let me say, if you go to let's say Kilele Shua, if you go to Kyren, if you go to... You will not find so many churches. True. It's a slum or anywhere. Katikati? You will find like... Apakuna church, Palikuna church, Ukukuna church. There are so many churches and also, like you said, they pride on vulnerable people. People, because I saw on that wakensi, the shakahola nene, there was a girl who... She had her stuff together, she had her life together. The cabin crew. The cabin crew, and she literally just... But you see, for someone like that, it's not that she's not educated. I believe she is educated. I believe she... She was a cabin crew member, right? So I feel like she was pride upon because she was going through something. You know why it's easy to actually set up churches in these slums and people who are just vulnerable? It's because they want more. So you come here, you set up a church and you sell hope to them. That is what the pastors are selling. So it is easier for you to go and set up and sell hope there as compared to you setting up in the leafy suburbs. They are more work, they have made money because they are more exposed. But Apakuna people are not exposed. It is the easiest to sell hope to them and actually get more from them. And that is why it's easy. That's why you see most congregants in a church with a very rich pastor, because they are always giving, giving. But then again, you don't even have the faith because sometimes I always tell people, these pastors you think they are going to go to hell, you are medanganya congregants. I feel like they won't go to hell because you know what? They didn't get into your pockets and take the money. They didn't steal from you. You brought this money yourself. So they used their mind. Even if they study theology, as long as they are business minded and they know how to manipulate you, they are going to give you all these things that you feel like you know what? I should take my rent to this pastor, this man so that it can multiply nilipe mezi zingine tatu zina kuja. So it's the mind. They know how to play with their minds. You can keep them giving. You can keep giving because you are only hoping. But even your faith is not as big as the giving that you are doing. And that's the problem. Because if your faith is not that big, then it means uteshi kupiana kupiana and you are never getting anything back. That's the problem. But guys, what do you guys think about? Now religion as a whole and how it actually divides people? Because I feel like religion divides people. In Africa that was our biggest, I would say the biggest what is it called? I'm finding a word like the biggest problem or the worst thing people ever brought to us because they brought religion fast before they colonized you. Yes, you get. So it was not brought to us as for us to actually know about God. It was brought literally to divide us. And now we have Catholics, we have Protestants, we have Islam, we have Hindus, we have friends, Quakers, we have what we are, it's gay and all that you get. So and everyone in their own way feels whatever religion there is, whatever church there is is much better. It's the correct one. Yes, it's the correct one than anyone else. But in real sense, honestly, we just need to pray to God, we just need to personally, you as a person, pray to God, read the Bible for yourself, understand it, have small fellowships with your people. Anyway, the Bible says what? Where there's a congregation, like where there's a few people. Two or three people who are gathered. That's a church already. You get. How about you start doing that instead of putting so much hope in people who are actually lying to you, who are manipulating you. And at some point, they will manipulate you to the point you will hurt God. You will hurt the word of God. And then they introduce this religion to us and then they don't even practice it. Then themselves, what you mean? You know what actually made me upset? I'm an Anglican by birth and it came from England. And right now, 90% of the English people so what happened? What's that? What's going on? And before religion, we used to pray to, you know, we go to the mountains. Why people are not religious? Why we not religious actually before the Luzungu came? We were. We were religious. People were praying to the mountain and everything. Yeah, they were interacting with the universe. You know, there's a stream of water under Mugumo tree. You pray, isn't that what people are doing in the US right now? In the name of connecting with the earth. Meditation. These things we used to do here in Africa. So I don't know why we being lied to. But you see also now, religion, I feel like it really divides people because you've seen in the African homes where you're told, you see all these things are meant to divide us. Catholics think the protestants are sinners. Christians believe Muslims are going to hell. Muslims believe Christians are going to hell. We are here thinking Indians are praying to a cow. I mean, the earth is to believe there is no God. We are here thinking Indians are praying to a cow. I mean, the earth is to believe there is no God. There is no God, you know? I feel like religion is just introduced to divide us. Just think about it. I'm actually not intending to change anyone's perspective. But think about it. We are not saying you don't be religious. We are religious. There is God. I'm not saying here, I'm not standing to say there is no God or anything. I believe in God. I'm a Muslim. I pray. But you know, what we say about Islam is that we are not forced on these things. You get. I don't think you've ever seen Dini. Because Islam, we are taught to actually seek for the word, seek the Quran and read to understand it by yourself. You get. That's what you've been taught when you were kids and even growing up. You get. So when you don't get to follow just someone's word because they say this is the word of God. You get. And even in Ramadan, when people are practicing Ramadan, that's when you read more Quran, read more stories, understand your religion better. By yourself before you get someone to tell you this is how God wanted it to be done. And honestly all these holy books are very clear. They say there is no faith without action. They say that God blesses the hand that works. Exactly. What are you doing with fasting and not doing anything? What exactly are you doing? The people is very clear. But you see also, I feel like these pastors just preach the easy way. They just want to preach the easy way because they want you to give them that money faster, faster than they go. They are not telling you work. Like you need to work. So they are told to go hide somewhere in a forest somewhere. Die. As they bury each other, it's burying your child because you let your child. That is in your mind. First of all, I'm not God but I already know that that is not okay anywhere. It's not okay in the word of God. It's not okay in human rights. It's not okay at all. If you are fasting, even when you guys fast or anything, at least you don't drink water. At least you are told you can break your fast after a while. Or you can be fasting and you are eating light. So when that food you are supposed to eat, you are giving it to the poor, not your rich faster. When you are fasting, you are not upset when you are rich. You are making him more rich. While you watch your kids die. You are watching your kids die. You are forcing your kids to fast. You are forcing your family members to fast. You are forcing your kids to die. And then you are telling me you are going to heaven. Liz, your final words? My final words. Guys, first of all, you mean you can believe someone who went to a cell and said he was not eating food. And he said he was fasting. And he said he was not eating food. And he looks healthy. He looks... Guys, stop it. Anyway, I just feel like it will be knowledgeable. It will make you just be knowledgeable. So my final thoughts is read the holy book. Whether you are a Muslim, you are a Christian. Read it for yourself. Kama ujiki zungu, because you can read and you can understand. And people out here selling hope. Everyone has mastered how to sell hope. So every single time you can manifest things for yourself. As long as you have faith and it is going to happen. You believe it, you set your mind and it happens. So you need to be ignorant when it comes to religion. And then again religion is not supposed to divide people. If you are just thinking that religion is bad and yours is best, you are lost. Please, just ask, interact with Muslims, interact with Christians. Ask them about your religion. Don't bank on what your parents told you as you are growing up. Some things are lies. And don't blame them, they were also told that. So please, read and learn for yourself. That's it on Friends Vibes. Make sure you let us know. Musi tutukane sana, tombe ni tuapu kwa conversation. Ni ni ni, what do you think? And defend your answer like we've done. Thank you so much for watching Friends Vibes. Until next time, goodbye from us.