 Thank you for staying with us. You're still watching the breakfast on plus to the Africa It's time to take our first hot topic and this talks about the war in Israel between Israel and Iran and this says our response will be much larger Iran wants Israel and we're talking about You know the the attack that they have made to Israel and they said if Israel retaliates well This whatever they've seen is going to be larger now joining me to have a conversation is Dr. Cash or none of you is a political scientist and we also have festas to combo as a Conflicts and development analysts and is joining us from the UK. Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for joining me Good morning Okay, so we're looking at you know, some people might call this a shadow war between Israel and Iran now let's start with you festas I mean your conflicts and development analysts So can you just help us make sense with what's going on right now? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your show Over the years there have been a conflict between Iran and Israel in the Middle East basically over the Ejimon of the region, but it was basically a proceal war between the two countries and this is about the first time that Iran we conducted a direct attack on Israel's soil There are a lot of things that That's got that kind of implies Iran over the years I've been using engaging the non-state actors in the new MVDs to promote this interest Establish the region and attack Israel, but this time around it shows to attack directly, which was a consequence of the attack on this Concealed in Syria on 4th of April which the claim that Israel was responsible Basically on the principle of a reprisality reciprocity, the idea to try before Iran to attack the Israeli conflict in Syria or any of the Middle East countries, but it shows to us facts Directly on Israeli soil, so there are not to be a lot of implications. There are consequences And though the West is not interested in an agro-major war in Middle East And if we try to engage Israel, I should not attack directly, but I believe I'm going to be responsible for Israel and Iran are also wondering that if there was a response, they're going to conduct a Precinct attack on Israel. So basically there are many things that are involved in this kind of role I know I mean Israel is an anti-amplified state. Iran is not The war is not interested in Iran and the play of the Holocaust. They believe that it is a threat to the global peace and security But I believe that when you see a state, who's got the nuclear nuclear-amplified country and attacking the nuclear-amplified country, that must be involved that there may be some kind of bad problem promises from any of the security council members. So I mean the fact that the situation in the Middle East is not a political scenario from my own opinion Okay, so let me let me move over to all the guests now We're seeing this happening, right? You know with Israel, Iran We know about the Israel Amas war that you know started in in October, right? And you know even Iran now is Threatening Israel if I can say that that even if the US tries to help them or retaliate Then they might just also get something coming for them. And so Dr. Kacz, what do you think with you know The the US, you know even trying to help Israel in this case Well, I would say there was warning from the US you had water in the Toshuma say And if you present by the himself telling Israel to be buried Come in its responses I believe Israel has overdone the responses and it's now forcing people like Iran to react Iran is reacting to the attacks That occurred at its basis is Syria and because each person that we are killed It now feels that it has to respond to Israel's Attacks and the US CS have come in to say Israel hold your fire Because once you start replying to Iran you Risk the possibility of a wider wall and this is what We all have tried to prevent all alone, but it looks like we are being guided into a wider wall Due to the consequences of an overbearing Israel Israel has been appealed to by all Nations to actually become and bring down is a amount of Challenge not only in the Gaza, but also in Rafa and I believe whatever you do to those civilians They're in Gaza and not in Rafa will always force a reaction from the wider Arab world and now we're seeing Iran firing back at Israel and for your information do not call Iran No nuclear country. It is a nuclear bearing country What you do not know is the capacity of nuclear arsenal that Iran does have but does it have it? Yes, he does but don't forget the Americans mishandled the inspections and because of that Iran has gone on its own to do what it's always wanted to Be able to manufacture with nuclear weapons, but it's been saying it's manufacturing nuclear weapons Because of its domestic needs But we now know that those nuclear capabilities could be extended to an offensive capability And of course we all know that Iran has Delivered systems as it has shown you it did it through its attack on the Saudi oil field It's also not showing you that it can also deliver into Israel. So we don't want this war Israel has nuclear capability. We believe so Iran also is believed by the international community to possess Nuclear capability nobody wants is shootout between these nuclear powered nations And we are appealing to everybody to please moving right now and try to hold Israel to stop the sustained killings of harmless Palestinian civilians in both the Gaza and also in the Rafa area Okay, so as there are speculations that they might just be a third world war and you know you You've also mentioned Dr. Katch that it might just be a wider war if Israel tries to retaliate and so the US is also asking them and other people are Asking them to just become now if Israel decides to retaliate, what are we going to see? What what could just be? What could the war look like? Well, it's not what the world look like between Israel and Iran You could have a mutual a short destructive behavior But what will it look like when we know last year the US Defense Secretary Mr. Lloyd Austin did present to the Congress and all the perceptions and conjectures Which showed that the United States was actually preparing for a war this year and it said Inevitably that China looks like a partner for a third world war and we have now seen the combination of the BRICS nations we've also seen the calibrations in Ukraine To the US in dues Ukraine behavior which has forced Russia into pulverizing Ukraine into the dark ages and of course we know as far as you have companies like BlackRock and Companies like Vanguard companies like Raytheon companies like Northrop Grumman and Boeing and all those people Swelling around about their reconstruction capabilities and the money to be made War looks like it is already very inevitable from the American side But they do not want to engage in a wider war with the Arabs and also in a wider war with China and now with Russia I think that will spell doom for Humanity, I think we should do everything possible to stop it You can also see that the French in desperation about the Russian incursion into the Sahel Is close to bearing up for war so there are quite a lot of countries who do to the azimuth some calculations Insisting that a resort to war may be what they need to actually Recalibrate the losses that they have gotten in this case I'm talking about France in this case I'm also looking at the United States and it's here at the resurgence of China So we have problems all over the places We have red flags all over the world and we pray that international community are able to come together and Suspend Whatever Israel is doing because Israel has overshot its own local boundaries Hence the reaction from members of the Arab community and that's what we are seeing from Iran We pray this is able to gain arrest as quickly as possible Okay, so let me move over to Festus now Festus with all that is happening. You're seeing Israel Iran you're seeing the Israel and mass you're seeing Russia Ukraine you see none of this is that possibility of a third world war breaking out really soon And the impact I beg your pardon and the impact that it will have on other nations I mean we are not so close to To you know most of these countries because Russia Ukraine European you're seeing Israel You know the Middle East, you know, you're seeing all of this But for us here in Nigeria because I'm sure that's what people want to know What is the impact if a third world war was to break within all of these countries? What is going to be the impact for us Nigerians? So thank you for your questions and I said earlier on the words is not interested in the middle conflict between Europe and Iran and history for many reasons one domestic factor because they're going to be a lesson in the U.S. whatever this year and this is also just a little lesson in the UK and The worst is also preoccupied with the Russian Ukraine war. So A lot of war between Israel and Iran Iran We divert to Western attention from the Ukraine and this is definitely big To Russia in Ukraine So The question of National intelligence that you know, we want to return it is that how he saw it. So it's a job to be managed very critically so that would not Don't break out on a global scale and Confine this body comes with I know yesterday. There was a there was a motion that Iran should be Suspended it's a recession, but you know this five country and I have been on the same page So they're not going to pass that motion and I know that the DC want to I'm going to start on Iran, but that did not bring the needed consequence out of the case more than 15 years ago because today It's where they partied top three partners are China I'm a China Pakistan Turkey Uzbekistan Those countries will not be on the same page on a position on Iran. So as I said, the situation is very it's not on some political and if there's Regarding the idea of this Break up a third world war. They have not been able to play a part of neutrality in international relations So I think that there may not be a target If I mean if there's a positive or the third world as a consequence of the ongoing crisis in Russia, Ukraine and other countries in the world. So what the most important thing is that I mean Israel should be Pressurized on the West not to retaliate which I am not too convinced about that and Iran as I said earlier on Iran as it are be treading the US and treading See history that if they really don't want to conduct a wider attack on history And that shows that what that shows is that there may be some Countries will be anything that are given if they are supported. Okay. Go ahead. We are behind you So that is it. I mean, it's a very It's not uncreatable at the moment and anything can happen But what you want is that I mean the actual Israel should Relax and try to manage it diplomatically. We cannot see the positive positive of that That because history is I mean history is surrounded by many enemies and we can see the attack on history was one of the four countries from email from From Syria from history it's only Jordan that was not involved in that attack That all was supported the West in quality and to minimize this thing So this is very very it looks very skinner. It's very unpredictable Anything can happen But the what the West is going to be doing and the entire community to be putting more pressure on history to stop To stop the attack on history will not engage in the war with Iran Without the support of the U.S. And another thing is that if history choose to continue in the conflict The U.S. will be forced to involve in the war because it is paramount in the U.S. paramount policy that history is going to say Most policy will take it and the West will do it. You see so it will be very important Nobody we can see we don't have to wait for what is happening and see how everything went on Well, we hope that is second a third world war doesn't break out because at the end of the day We want a we want a nation not just a nation. We want a world You know that everyone is okay with the other person So because war is never good and you know some of those countries They have some nuclear weapons in their arsenal So you don't want a situation whereby they just deploy it and other parts of the world are also affected In fact, I was you know, watching a documentary on what could possibly happen If all the nuclear weapons were to be deployed and we'll just see the the the whole world the entire world going to a cold winter And that's what we do not want. So now if there's going to be another solution I'm sure peace treaty should be the case. So dr. Catch Don't you think this is where they come to the table and just have some form of dialogue And have a peace treaty to ensure that okay, everyone is okay. We're not fighting because war is never good So how can a peace treaty come into play here? The number one ingredient of the peace treaty is the international Creation of The two-stage solution I think we've gotten to a point where these release have now seen The actions of 1948 Have come to a stage where you must now allow a two-stage solution With the Palestinians and Israelis living side by side So the idea of prompting of hamer as a strategy to keep divided The palestinian struggle. I think that has failed from an israeli standpoint But because yes israel is the main patron of hamas Israel popped up hamas and made sure money flows to hamas as a way to divide the palestinian liberation organization It has succeeded in doing that by also keeping hamas afloat with it Incendiary actions and of course right now With the hamas attack on israel and israel's retaliation What you have now seen is an international condemnation of both israel and the initial attack by hamas But how do we get out of this hamas seem to has won? its original strategic strike game, which is an internationalization of the palestinian issue in a way that America will not be able to gain the arabs Peace with israel without tabling the palestinian issue on the table That's what has happened now hamas has forced the palestinian issue on the table So you can no more have the peace treaty with the arabs without discussing the palestinian issue So if we're going to now talk about as you mentioned a peace treaty The issue about its two-states solution for the palestinians and israelis Is top on the agenda even those outside who have been backing israel to the hills now understand Israel was a gamble created after 1948 following the creation of turkey in 1923 following the defeat of the ottomans in the first world war now We're looking at all that has happened there the defeat of the ottomans subsequent creation is for israel Israel's attempt to behave in a way i see if the palestinians Don't exist now they have seen that that thing yes could be successful for some time But would not permanently be successful a long time We have now become challenged with the issue of the two-states solution If we're going to talk about the peace treaty as you mentioned The two-states solution will be right on the table. It's not just a peace treaty between israel and the arabs No, it'll be a peace treaty between israel and the palestinians and the entire international community Becoming the guardians of that peace treaty no more a peace treaty dictated by israel It will not work the u.s. Have seen its creation of a 51st state in Israel has worked But each long term security cannot be guaranteed if it is not forced to live alongside the palestinians in peace and harmony in a way that outsiders Could be the guarantors and those outsiders That must be the guarantors are these people you're seeing right now First it was hammers Then it was talk about the version of lebanon should hezbollah get in then it was a hooties shooting Now from the hooties it has now serrated into iran Tomorrow what could it be? Turkey is on the side working. Don't forget that and Saudi Arabia has now met peace with iran broken by china Don't forget that so it's not going to be easy for israel to live amongst the arabs and yet Refusing to agree to the two-states solution I believe it is all deja vu again And we have come back to a need to sit at the table and Calibrate a holistic piece for the entire region. You cannot keep one without the other I believe the peace treaty you're talking about will be a peace treaty that guarantees the two-state solution Being done by the international community since israel has shown that it cannot be trusted As president trump said and trump seems on the verge of an electoral You know destruction. So you don't have friends anywhere inside the current Democratic party We have people like the senate leader senator schumer telling israel to change his ways Even have the bad enough demonstration telling israel it's gone too far Don't allow you know desperation by countries like france to damage the current picture Let us concentrate on the israeli arab crisis resolve that problem Don't allow Francis desperation to push the international order into a third world war that I believe I don't think the arabs are the problem of the americans I think the problem is americans is the resurgence of a new china That is something you cannot play. I don't think the russians are their problems I think their biggest problem is the resurgence of an economically powerful china That also seems to have a lot of resources to calibrate some kind of military situation And I believe that's what we should look towards not worry yourself about the arabs or about the russians Well, I hope that's you know a peace treaty might just be in the works and like you've said The international community should be guarantors for this because we cannot just trust israel would do What they've said that they would do and it was saying peace treaty they need to be accountable to that Anyway, so i'm going to come to you first us. I mean you are conflicts and development analysts And so my question to you is what's the way forward? Can't nations just coexist and make sure that there's no war if they need to do that What's the way forward? How do you advise? thank you for a question Wait forward as my colleague at primate said is a two-state solution in the Middle East between Israel and Palestine Though I mean Preliminary claim that he offered that solution to palestine maintain the body rejected it. It was later dismantled They did it at history same going and this major U.N. Resolution and international So cross a two-state solution to israel and palestine and that is I mean it's not negative It's a question of time before that is implemented that will address the problem Between the history and palestine and when come to iran the iran's canary is I mean it is it is more I mean Come with my point of audience that I mean the world has to react the u.n. has to react The u.n. has to be effective in addressing global conflict and peace because of its weakness in many I mean in many aspects of But The the the security council I mean need to be on the same page in many situation critically, but the problem they have a diverse interest And I still believe that as long as the history and iran is concerned There are there are contrast my colleague said that Promises iran to I mean to continue his escalation against israel and I know that the Russian part of because Russia believe that If you blow up into israel and Iran will divide with sanitation. So if you are Of our aid in the ukraine and war so As you said, we need peace We need peace but The problem is bad eyes because of completing interests of nations But nevertheless the international community should continue to pressurize israel So to comply with international resolution why iran is also Specialized to To comply with international resolution for the circle that the middle east All right, thank you so much gentlemen Um, we just hope that this war comes to an end and all nations can just live in peace and harmony We want to say thank you for coming. It's my pleasure Thank you Thank you for having me. Thank you so much All right, even speaking with dr. Katch on Anudio He's a political scientist and also festus cucumber. He's a conflicts and development analyst joining us from the uk And we've just been talking about the war between Israel and iran and now we're going to short break and when we return We're talking about the fact that an ocean monarch as expresses discomfort over nigeria's preparedness for state police See you soon. Stay with us