 Hi everybody Welcome I'm Anne Marie Slaughter. I'm the president and CEO of New America and I have to tell you I was thinking earlier today This is why I left Princeton University for New America because there is nothing I could have done in my job as a Professor at Princeton that would have allowed me to introduce Kat Cora So I'm thrilled to welcome you to tonight's event hosted by New America's bread-winning and caregiving program on the homemaker mystique So we all know about balancing work and home and not only our work pressures But increasingly the pressures to bake from scratch or cook organic I can't say that this is something my kids are familiar with but I am aware of the pressure sort of this increasing Emphasis on healthy eating healthy living as a mom or as a father as a parent With of course the balance of work. So tonight we're going to be hearing from someone who has mastered both Without any question. I'm thrilled to introduce Kat Cora. She is a wife a mother a business owner And an entrepreneur and of course a chef. She's the first and only woman iron chef She's been awarded Bon Appetit magazine's teacher of the year award. She has restaurants in New York, San Francisco Who's Houston Walt Disney World and Singapore? She runs an app a web series named Muppet kid Muppets kitchen and a cookware line So Kat Cora is also known for her philanthropy She is the president and founder of chefs for humanity Which is an organization modeled on doctors without borders, which gathers the culinary community together to provide resources and raise funds in critical emergencies And also for educational and hunger-related causes She has been appointed by UNICEF as a nutritional spokeswoman She's joined first lady Michelle Obama in her chefs move to schools program And she's currently working on adopting an elementary school near her home in Santa Barbara Most recently she traveled to Ethiopia in February 2012 with Save the Children To help shed light on the global child hunger crisis Before I hand things over to Kat who will and then we'll move to our panel after she speaks I just want to thank a few people first our event underwriter Betty Crocker Who partnered with us on this event celebrating the modern American home? Thanks for making this possible. We want to continue that partnership And I'd also like to thank NPR for hosting us in this gorgeous space And finally of course to our new America staff who've made this possible. So with that I welcome Kat Cora Hi good evening Good evening everyone Thank you to the new America Foundation for having me here tonight You know, this is I'm excited to be on this panel. I think it's it's gonna be really a really great conversation about You know families the new American family today the modern family if you will and It got me thinking about a lot of things that I would speak about tonight But you know first one of them is really about the first time You know and talking about the family in general and and then I'm gonna get into some some meal time And the way that our family You know balances if you will as much as we can balances our day-to-day life as as also a modern family and you know one it got me thinking about The first time my kids ever asked about having two moms, you know or their friends asked about having two moms And you know the way that we explained it was is that you know families? There's family very different families, you know, there's some families that have two moms Some have a mom and dad some have two dads some have You know families where the grandparents are taking care of them some are blended families, you know We have a divorce rate and some second marriages where they're bringing families together Some are you know single-parent homes So I said there's lots of different, you know This this new modern family represents a lot of different people and a lot of different structures and how Families are structured, but it also got me to you know talking about With them how they were conceived Which you should have seen their faces obviously When we started talking about Laboratories and Petri dishes and IVF and things like that because we were having just the other night a Conversation about the birds and the bees we have my wife and have four boys 117 to two five-year-olds and they were all curious about it and brought we had a book that they wanted to know about All of the body parts and when they were gonna get hair into their arms and how do babies how babies are born and how our Baby's made and it was lots of questions from four boys and so we started explaining to them how they were conceived And so it really it does it really brings it a good discussion Today it really opens up a conversation, which I think is gonna be fantastic with the fan the panel is about the new American family You know when I was growing up my parents I came from my parents were together for 50 years They were married for 50 years. I my mom was a very strong woman. She was an incredible example to me She had her doctorate nursing she Came to Washington many times to to to Capitol Hill to talk about nursing rights and and Funding and lobbying for this and lobbying for that for nurses. She wrote journals. She Created grants. I mean she was she's a really brilliant woman still is today And my dad was a school teacher a public school teacher for 35 years So in the sense my parents were two strong parents my mom being a very strong woman But and my dad being somewhat pretty hands-on for the 70s and 80s. I will say but once literally Five o'clock my mom got home. My dad would you know really and and To his defense. I mean this was this this was kind of the status quo He'd grab a cup of coffee reheat some coffee grab the paper go sit in the recliner and my mom would put dinner on the table Help us with homework bathes, you know and run the household from that on and so, you know This really this discussion as well and this thinking about this is like wow Even though my parents were super my mom was a really strong woman still is they had very traditional roles It was a lot like I love Lucy Ozzie and Harriet leave it to beaver and that has just changed completely One reason is because our lives are faster than it's ever been with the technology age roles are changing because a lot of families are to income and They had to they had to develop and and really evolve From from those days where one parent could kind of you know Help be the authority figure of go to work be the breadwinner and come home and you know That's those days of coming home pouring a drink Sitting in the recliner reading the paper or over. I mean granted. There are days that sounds really good to me As the breadwinner, but you know, that's just not how our lives run every day and You know really it's it's we've also become more aware. I think as a society that That you know, it's it's really beneficial to the kids And to a family as a whole when both parents are really involved in nurturing and raising the children and being present But it's just a very it's a very different world today. I know for myself I'm the breadwinner in our family. My wife stays home with our kids Which would have been a title that would have been homemaker years ago Bravo back brought it back as housewives. God help us all and then Today we say in our family. It's you know, my wife works inside the home So we don't classify it as like you're a housewife I'm the breadwinner. We really say I go out and work in the world and you stay home and work in the home And because it is the hardest job on the planet. It really is I think the only second hardest job or the Really before that would be being a single parent trying to do that trying to do it all Because you know, that's really part of it Really, we've got a lot of single parents out in the world that are trying to see, you know I know many that are struggling sometimes have to work a couple of jobs Try to get home at five try to put dinner on the table and that brings me to try to put dinner on the table and and our roles and so Although I am the breadwinner and I go out in the world every day. I travel a lot I've really been able to you know, put my intention In a place where I since I have my own company I don't have to travel 200 250 days a year the way I've been doing for the last 15 years this year I've kind of swapped that out a little bit reverse it some and stayed home more because I want to be home But I'm lucky. I'm that's we're I believe me. It's not lost to me and how lucky we are But most Americans have to work each work I mean most Americans do have to have two working parents in the home and To just make it these days. It's a really it's really tough to have One parent with all the pressure of either single-handedly taking care of the kids or single-handedly going out and earning the money But you know the role is you know the roles for us in our house and the way we really run our house What every day is that we do share in that role? I usually cook dinner and there is a lot of pressure I think we were talking about there is a lot of pressure to Cook from scratch or to bake cookies every day from the kids come home and to do these You know all these things that we you know that we saw in the sitcoms if in sitcoms if you will You know that we used to see and used to know that role was happening You know that the mom you know like and leave it to beaver was there with the fresh baked cookies on a plate When the kids came home from school and we just know that that's not that's not reality today We live in a really busy society. We live in a we want it now society Where convenience is really important and so for me? In the way that we run our household is is that we get up in the morning and we have a normal day Where we're really getting up with four boys Active boys Jennifer and I are both my wife We're we're tag-teaming on breakfast and lunch packing lunches trying to make it You know trying to pack a healthy lunch like we all want to have for our kids Trying to make them a healthy breakfast that sustains them through the day or get some at least two lunch Getting them dressed getting packed backpacks packed getting water bottles ready to go Making sure they have a snack for midday Being home when they get home. I usually cook dinner although. She's a great cook I usually try to put something again Even though I'm a chef and I know how to whip something up It is a little easier for me to kind of go in the refrigerator and go Okay, I'm gonna I got some chicken here and I've got some a little of this and I've got some veggies and I'm gonna throw this together but For every day every day people trying to put dinner on the table at five o'clock I feel your pain because I have to do the same thing even as a chef It still gets difficult to say what am I gonna make today? How am I to make it healthy? How am I to make it nutritious for the family and that's really our day? We're not we're like every other family out in America trying to just Feed our kids take care of our kids nurture them make sure that they're they're healthy and they're happy and they're well-rounded and so You know in mill time we usually turn all the technology off You know that's kind of a rule in our house And I think what I've discovered is is being busy parents One of the things that I've discovered over the years is really going back to the way my parents raised us You know kind of going even though this is a new day in age Some of those old traditions are still really viable today You know mill time taking the phones shutting the phones off making sure TVs are off all the technologies off The kids don't have toys at the table that it's just about us It's just about having a conversation around mill time and to me It's one of the most sacred times that we have together I think it's one of the most sacred moments that all of us have time together because we have to eat You know everybody's got to eat dinner and that's a really incredible time to to really get in Some good conversations with your kids to ask about today Even if it's 20 minutes and you're running a soccer practice, so you've got this going on or you've got homework Or what have you is taking that time as much as possible I don't know when this happened when soccer games and baseball games started pouring over under a Sundays You know I know that there's days when we get up at 7 o'clock in the 730 in the morning on a Sunday And we have to go to a soccer game You know those Sundays used to be sacred days where we knew that we were going to work all week long But we got that day to you know, you may or may not have gone to church We went to church every Sunday, you know, we came home. We had brunch together. We'd go to the park We go to the zoo. We did something as a family and now that all that structure has changed as well and that shifted and so Bringing together, you know the family over some time to quality time I think we're all probably struggling to do that to try to carve out those times together as a family And I think it doesn't matter the structure of your family That's that's an ongoing battle to try to find that quality time Especially as kids get older you have different ages You're trying to you know create a situation where everyone is benefiting from it. Everybody wants to do it I mean, that's one of the hardest parts right is when you have multiple kids And you've got a 12 year old a 7 year old a 5 year old And trying to figure out something that works for everybody that everybody can be happy around so I come back to Mealtime because again That's a time when you know everyone's going to eat everyone's gathered and you have a chance to have a conversation and Really, you know Discover what's happened during the day talk to them about their day Um, I find cooking with my kids has helped me Bring out conversations I find when you're not looking when your kids are not having to look you in the eye and tell you about your day They'll tell you everything You know if you're driving down the street and you're taking them to a soccer practice You're taking them to a school function. You're taking them somewhere having a conversation where they're not looking you directly in the eye They'll talk to you Cooking with them, you know doing some kind of activity together has always been really You know really beneficial to all of us and our family Um, you know, and we really we really work hard. I think today what as well is blending many things Um blending faiths together. Um, and I know in our family. I'm greek orthodox I come from mississippi from a greek household. I know that's disturbing, but true If you've never had feta cheese on biscuits or grits, you're missing out So you should try it sometimes, but that's you know blending greek orthodox with the jewish faith um blending ideas together blending um You know aspirations for your children blending aspirations for yourself Together and working that out and creating a balance within your household and really carving out again connection between you and your spouse Connection between you and your spouse with the kids and then the family as a whole So I think that you know, I can say that along with all of you I'm probably I know that we as well, you know have to my wife and I have to Get creative and we have to find ways to do that and have to find ways to compromise in our life And some of it's great, you know, I mean we come together and you know, we have extracurricular activities We've got a busy lifestyle. We've got kids in school. We're running from here to there, but I think it's really crucial That you do kind of carve out that time for yourselves and you carve out that time for that family time because I think Really that is what's going to create that balance happy family You know, we've managed to do it. I mean we really uh We've managed to have time to travel together. We've managed to have time to Um again my career, you know Is a little bit of anomaly because I've been able to carve out those kind of time for myself and because I am the CEO of my own company I can you know, I'm kind of the I'm not kind of the boss of me So I can I can I can make my schedule, but I also have a huge pressure of providing for six people as a sole breadwinner So it's it's a it's a balancing act every single day to say how can I carve out time to be home more? Because I think also the struggle with two moms is that we both want to be moms You know, we both want to be there. We have you know, I'll never forget michelle obama one of the First lady said one of the things I'll never forget her saying is that no matter what as a mom You're gonna have mom guilt Whether you work whether you stay home Whether you work and stay home no matter what and you just have to you have to come to peace with it And you have to be able to find that balancing act that works for your family and every family It's not one size fits all every family is different every family has challenges Ours being transitioning in and out because I traveled a lot, you know It's that transition back into the home where my wife would say well, I've set a whole routine up and now you're back And it's like yeah, I live here, you know, so it's kind of that transitioning of in and out and travel But we managed to make it work. Yes throw in some couple therapy. I always helps Having a strong mantra between you as a couple ours is is that We always know we always say that no one's going out of this relationship unless you're horizontal meaning there's no option So it's really about creating that strong bond Yeah, that's really it is it's like you're not going out of this marriage unless you're horizontal So just live with it. You're here. We're committed and I think that those kinds all of those things as a whole Have created somewhat of a balance. We work. It's a work in progress every day I think one of the best things that's come out of the diversity of having, you know, this this modern family today Is that, you know, it's changed our roles for the better. It's actually created a place where parents both You know have a role in raising and nurturing The kids and I think what that's going to create is really a happy well-rounded balanced generation I hope For our next generation and you know, I can't say enough about You know being inclusive And you know creating policy to support All the families and represent all the families out there because I think that's going to be our next big step and that's important Laws are changing You know people's minds are changing The modern family is becoming the majority in this country and we've got to Fall in step with that, you know, we've got to support those modern families Us being one of them So I think this is what's going to create a lively discussion tonight on this panel I think this is really I think that my family along with so many others represents This new modern american family and this new modern family Um, and I think it's going to really just create again more openness more awareness and and in our society Which is I think what We all want I think all of us here want that um So I'm happy with um the fact that You know diverse families are are now being super supported in this country and that Again, minds are changing People are becoming more open um through not not even the united states, but out throughout the world um And that's uh something that I didn't know if I would see in my lifetime to be honest with you at one point I really didn't I didn't know In my lifetime at one point if I was going to be able to have to marry the person that I love If I was going to be able to have children and have a family that I always dreamed of but that's possible for anybody now And that's a beautiful thing. So I'm excited to be on this panel. I'm excited to be um with these brilliant people And sitting next to them and talking about um the new american family. So thank you You know where you are I'm next to you. So I'm gonna let you I'm farthest from the code. Okay. Good Hi, thank you all so much for coming. It's that was a great talk. Thank you so much cat I have a you prompted an anecdote of memory of mine that i'll that i'll get to you later But I want to introduce everybody so um beside cat. We have frederick goodall He is a writer a speaker and a father in 2008 He started the popular fatherhood blog mocha dad to chronicle his life as a dad And to counter the negative stereotypes regarding black fatherhood He wanted to give readers a first-hand account of a black father who was intimately involved in his children's lives Now he uses the blog to not only capture his experiences But also to help motivate other men to be more actively engaged and involved with their children families and communities Uh and beside frederick. We have um Sarah bowen she is an associate professor at north carolina state university um her areas of specialization are the sociology of food globalization international political economy and the sociology of community uh numerous other areas as well and she and colleagues have um have conducted a Really fascinating study that I am I'm actually going to ask you to talk about in in just a second And beside sarah is latifah liles. She is the director of the women's bureau at the u.s department of labor Um, we were just talking in the green room before this that the women's bureau at the labor department is 94 years old This year. It was founded in 1920. Uh, what did you say two two months before women got the vote and has been Tracking women's labor force participation and producing all sorts of data and studies and programs since then So we're really thrilled to have everybody here talking about the the modern family And I don't know if we'll uh come up with the sorts of policies that we need tonight to support the family and all its forms But um, but we'll have a great conversation and and we'll try to Uh to at least get there a little bit. Um, I have to say uh your anecdote about Your household just made me think of a conversation. I'm in a Incidentally, I'm liza mundi. I'm the director of the bread winning The bread winning and caregiving program at new america and we call it the bread winning and caregiving program because we want to We want to just promote the conversation and promote the notion and the reality that men and women Like are breadwinners and caregivers now and we need to recognize that and we need to move forward into a world through policy And conversation in which both men and women can fulfill those both those two crucial human functions Um, anyway, your anecdote reminded me of a conversation. I had I'm the cook in my house I have a son and a daughter. My son also cooks. He learned how to separate eggs at a very young age Which actually boys, you know kids really enjoy trying to learn that separate egg My husband and my daughter really like to watch Reality cooking shows So we'll be sitting there cooking and they'll be like, you know cheering on But whatever works, but um, I remember having a conversation with a long time friend of mine Who is a um, who is in a long time sand sex relationship and we're both the cooks In our households and we were talking about how we divide up and who does what and he was saying although he cooks He also likes to completely run his kitchen. He likes to clean. He likes to put everything away He doesn't really let his partner in the kitchen because he likes everything just so and I was saying, you know because Because of sort of history, I really like my husband to Clean after I cook because otherwise I feel like I'm doing all the housework and burdened et cetera, et cetera And and my friend looked at me and he said, isn't that's exhausting to carry around all that ideological baggage? And he said in the nicest way it was like it was all new to him. I thought yes, actually that is that is exhausting But um, anyway, every every household has its has its trials and um, and It has its cooks and its cleaners I like that I like that too. I mean if I cook I like I like uh, my wife to clean and vice versa Right. I know it's my task that if she cooks it's my task to clean and so I you know, I think that my dad always Um, he loved doing the dishes. I mean he he would my mom would cook a great meal And he would sit there on the stool and just do the dishes and you know, that's just it's you know, so it's not so Uh, ideological No, it's no it actually works. This this was sort of a new idea to have that. Um, I had to explain to him that historically women had been perfect those things so We were talking a little bit in the green room about you know, all the conversation around food and nutrition and eating healthy That we've been hearing in the past, you know, particularly I'd say the past five or six years Thanks in in in part to the first lady and her push to um eat healthy the garden I hope you'll tell your garden anecdote at some point your white house garden anecdote and um And and what's so interesting to me? I wanted to ask you sarah bowen to talk about your study Is that all of america has gotten this message? I mean the message that it's important to get together for the family meal people want to get together for the family meal It's not actually that americans don't know how to cook or that we're eating fast food all the time But that sort of it creates new Heard chips actually on working parents and I wondered if you could talk about your really interesting study Maybe what prompted it and and what you all found Yeah, um, so it's part of a a bigger study About just how people feed their families and the challenges that go into that and the main part of it Is that we're doing interviews over a five-year period with 120 low-income mothers in north carolina And then we combined that with one of our colleagues who did an additional set of interviews with middle-class mothers And so it's we're having conversations with them about all of the things that affect how they feed their their kids and they all have young children and um One thing that surprised us a little bit because we hear all this thing about how no one is cooking anymore and To some degree we have cut our cooking and cleaning time overall since the 60s, but um They were cooking they were cooking four or five nights a week But especially the middle-class mothers they they were hearing all these messages That it has to be from scratch it needs to be this way and and they felt like they weren't measuring up And then for the poor and working-class Families they were cooking a lot in part because it's the cheapest thing to do But they weren't really they they they didn't have any chance of of meeting these ideals because of money and because of time and and work schedules and all these these factors, so So you're so I just thought it was so interesting that you found that everybody is trying everybody at every income level In every kind of family has gotten the message that you know for our the our psychological health of our kids for the health of our family we need to try to Draw together for these meal times and it is incredibly difficult for families at every level Yeah, and and people talked about how um in theory they like to cook They like to show how they care for their their families and this is a way to express creativity and They liked having big family meals. They they remember those family meals But as anyone that cooks um on a daily basis, maybe even chefs. I don't know knows day in and day out And especially when you have all of these financial and time pressures and things it is it is a really hard work And there's a lot of things that complicate it And I should say that this is a conversation between so anybody who wants to jump in at any point don't wait for me to call on you I mean, I can relate to that. I mean, I think even as a chef and I mean I can whip food up pretty quick And make something out of a lot of just pieces of things or leftovers or whatever Or you know, I mean it it is but you're always I always have in the back of my mind because You know, even though I'm a chef and I have that training. I'm a mom at heart You know, so I walk in the kitchen and I want to make the best I'm always thinking is this is this good enough for the kids? Are they gonna I mean is it healthy enough? Is it this enough and is it you know So I'm doing the same thing so I can imagine not having my even with people that you know may not be Definitely don't have my skill level, which is probably I mean, that's what I'm trained at You know, I mean a lot of people out in America don't aren't chefs I mean, they're just learning from what they're learning from how they learn from their mom or they're learning TV your shows, right And um, so they're drawing they're just trying their best so I can imagine the That stress level for them Trying to measure up or feel like they need to measure up because I'm feeling that same pressure Maybe not to that extent, but I'm still feeling a pressure to measure up as a mom You know, I mean my gosh when you start thinking about like I've got to take treats and snacks to soccer I've got to be the soccer mom that's taking the treats. I'm like, okay You know, yeah, they probably go well, I could do orange wedges You know, I could I could do capri suns and orange wedges and likes, you know, whatever So, I mean, they're probably expecting me. I don't know. Maybe they're expecting me to bring a big cheese platter The kids are like, what? You know, this is about us. No, it's really not. It's really about, you know Got a reputation to protect them But I mean I take like orange wedges or like chopped like diced up watermelon and boxes like fruit and this and that But you know, so I'm not making But there's that pressure, you know, there's that pressure to do a really good job at whatever you're doing I always have to tell my wife, please do not look at Pinterest No, do that because you can't do that. That's just not your skill Don't let that make you feel bad about yourself or anything. You're a great mom Just stay away from it. Just just think of it as fantasy land But but you know a lot of people going onto those websites and And even at my kid's school, I go there and volunteer and you know, they bring the cupcakes or whatever they bring And there are these, oh my gosh, there are these big elaborate productions Like how do you even have time to do that? And then all the other parents are looking around with their like store bought kind of thing kind of pushing them to the side It can't compare to that But there is so much pressure with parents and sometimes it feels like a competition that that you have to be the best parenting And you have to you know, do all these things that are just so amazing and incredible But setting that bar at that high just sets us up for failure and disappointment We have to do things that are right for our family that works for us within our Frame of reference and not allow those other things to try and push us out of our zone and and Try to do things that that really aren't us Do you feel like you're less susceptible to Pinterest and to sort of the the the pressure to be perfect You know to put a perfect meal on the table. Do you feel like your wife sort of feels that more acutely? Well in our family, you know, it kind of worked out a bit strangely because when we first got married I was the full-time cook because I grew up learning how to cook I grew up with a single mom And essentially I had to learn how to cook if I wanted to eat because my mom worked Plus she was going to school at night. So I had to try and get something on the table for my sister and me Uh, so I learned how to cook. I had these skills. I actually enjoy it But my wife on the other hand she actually grew up in a family with both parents Her mom had the traditional role of caretaker and homemaker Uh, but when her mom cooked she was pretty much a perfectionist So when my my wife had to help her, you know, she never did it up to her mother's expectation So her mother just took it over so she got very frustrated with cooking and didn't like it at all So, you know, we've been married for 17 years now. So over the years She started to get into cooking and now we kind of alternate back and forth In the cooking but you know for dads a lot of the times the the bars set very low for dads on any type of caretaking You know people people look I can go into the store with my kids and people will say You're a great dad I'm a great dad for going shopping. Are you serious? That the bar has to be set higher than that But you know, it is so low They don't expect men to be involved to do these things and to help their family in these ways and things are changing And I'm glad to see that a lot more dads are getting much more involved And that's what I encourage with men and with fathers But you know, there's still that pressure You know to to be the good father to do the right things and to make sure that my kids Have the appropriate role model because it's not something that I've ever seen And know something that I promote and that's something that I want to make sure that guys Do but they don't feel that pressure to that they have to be perfect because none of us are perfect I want to just go back to the conversation about time. So And I'm so glad that you said that you know today I think a fifth of of families Have the structure of one parent staying home. I mean, it's just not a reality anymore And what that means is that families have less time because there's so much more time In the workplace and we can't afford to not be working across the board and related to food personally You know, again when I was with that before I had my daughter I used to enjoy the farmers market and the fresh herbs I had in my own garden and all of these things and I realized after a time that it was more about time And it's much more meaningful To make a PB and J sandwich with my daughter or to you know, make a pizza Then it is to throw together some elaborate meal when I'm like super focused and I can't talk to anyone And no one's allowed in the kitchen. So in some way, I think Because time is so valuable how we spend that time is more critical than anything else And you find that in all of these studies about outcomes for children and why reading is such a big deal is is Because your children are hearing your voice and I think that when we get into Being the perfect homemaker we kind of lose ourselves. It's like, you know, the best host is Mingling with her her guests and so think about it the same way, you know, you are you are you sharing time with your family? Or are you just trying to get it right? And I think The model of trying to get it right really does have to Change because we're plugged in Um, we're half checking emails half, you know cooking at the same time and our attention really isn't there And I think that uh, that's going to be the challenge. It's quality It's what we're doing in that period of time, which is going to be so important and obviously, you know This, you know, this discussion of dads is super critical The white house did a summit on working families this this june one of the president's quotes I remember he was saying, you know, it's really time that that that we really in the workplace Give women a fair shot and stop penalizing women For trying to be good parents And then making such a big deal in some ways about a dad and he said, you know He's heard this before in his life where it's a woman is Thinking about taking some time off because she's a new mom and I think he said the partners say Well, is she really committed? And the dad says, oh, I'm going to take a two weeks or three weeks off to spend time with my child And he said, you know, the response is oh And this this idea that there's this very bizarre double standard and that, you know, you you you have an expectation To be perfect, but in a lot of workplaces you're penalized for it. It's a note against you And there's a lot of data that bears that out for women and for women and there's, you know There's this sort of inching up of cases related to caregiving responsibility and what that even caregiving discrimination, excuse me And what that even means and that's one of the things that we're studying right now and talking about because Even for progressive workplaces, there's this implicit and understated in some cases bias where You know, you think you're doing absolutely everything right and you make a decision That's mostly related to your family caregiving and you come back and you are not on a track to partner. You are Not given the promotion You might be passed over or your connection to the office or the the company Maybe devalued because you had to take care of not just yourself, but maybe even a parent in some cases Which we also know is a major Uh piece of the new modern family. It's also taking care of our parents in addition to our children Well part of the issue too is we don't have we're one of only Three countries that doesn't have mandatory maternity leave and family medical leave and paid leave And the other two are swaziland and new guinea. I mean in the united states The only countries that don't have mandatory Maternity leave and pay for families and you know, I think that that's ludicrous. Yeah, it's unbelievable And and the fact that there's no guarantee for a woman like you were saying You come back to your job after maternity leave because you it's necessary for you to take care of your child And you may not even have your job when you come back and there's there's no There's no protection for that for women. Um and families as a whole You know when I worked in my company I worked there for 20 years You know when I had my when I had my first child I wouldn't talk to the hr person about paternity leave I essentially was laughed out of his office. Are you kidding me? Get out of here. I don't even know what you're talking about And i'm sorry when was this how long ago was this? Oh, I I quit the company in 2012 so not that long ago, right? Yeah, but When I when I asked for take time to for my first child time off when you said people say aw they didn't say aw My boss actually said to me What do you need to go to the hospital for she's doing all the work? Wow When I had my third child I was in the delivery room My boss told me make sure you keep your blackberry with you He called me while I was in the delivery room With some nonsensical thing that he could have handled but he was he kept talking to me. I I'm kind of busy right now Can't call you But he kept on like listen this is ridiculous. I I can't even enjoy the birth of my child without you calling me But you know, it's difficult for everybody in the workplace me men and women. I mean just the whole notion of Pay leave is something that we struggle with mildly here in the united states and and it really needs to change And there's a lot of you know the the white house council and economic advisors came out with a couple of reports that are very relevant One was on labor force participation and while, you know, women's labor force participation is higher than it has ever been It stagnated and we see pockets and segments or cohorts of working women who are not coming back where we're not growing and in fact The discussion of many international labor conversations including the most recent g20 summit in australia where the our secretary Was participating was one of the major Pieces of the conversation was how we can make sure we can ensure women's labor force was participation There's a lot of discussion about how we make up half the workforce But the truth is there are a lot of women who are dropping out. There are a lot of women who are either Not fully employed. They're underemployed. They're working part-time But they would like to work full-time and have a full career Or they don't have paid leave or they don't have child care Which is an even stronger indicator and we know that's a major problem. And so across the world not just here Countries are trying to figure out How to fix that and you see some countries, uh, japan in particular, which is not necessarily You know a bastion of feminist ideology You would say has figured out that it's an economic imperative to ensure That women can fully participate in their economy and that means broader child care provisions And they want people to have kids but they realize people aren't having kids and women are not coming in And you know, there are real dollars and cents to gdp to even businesses bottom line when You really have a talented over educated in some areas workforce who's not able to fully participate Because they are doing something that most of us in our lives will experience which is Tried to raise a family So I think one thing that we've identified is the the change in policy that's happened is the policy attention to Nutrition and the importance of meals and the importance of eating well But there has not been any corresponding policy change either in terms of provision of child care or paid leave That would actually enable people to do what they want to do Which is have this time to actually cook the meals that they'd like to cook and spend the time with the people They'd like to spend it with now in your in your paper Sarabha and you all talk about some policy changes that might make life Easier on working parents. Would you want to talk about any of them? And well one thing I was thinking about With some of these comments is that there are all these problems with leave and with work schedules and of course there's it's worse for poor poor families and A lot of the jobs that we've gotten back since the recession have been these Low paying service jobs a lot of the people that we interviewed worked in those and so in those cases It's it's an issue of time But it's also an issue of schedule and they don't have a lot of control over their schedule They were finding out every week Like if they're working in a fast food restaurant where they're going to go and then they wouldn't have reliable child care So they'd scramble to figure it out or they paid for it and they don't need it, right? And it just made it Impossible for those families like some of the ones say you know if I got home at six o'clock like maybe I could do this But we're getting home at eight and nine o'clock and then having to try to get the kids to bed and just scrambling to try to just do it and so One of the things we talked about was if this is important That we need to figure out what we need to do to make it possible for all families And not just the relatively wealthy ones and it's it's hard for them too in terms of work schedules and wages The minimum wage I think those are important things And then and food access more food policies too, but also policies that are more generally related to labor and work and wages So She talked about the the schedule. I know that's one thing many people struggle with I know I there was a point for me when I was pretty Dedicated to having dinner at 6 30 every night And I would struggle to get it at 6 30 every night and it would stress me out so badly And then one day one friend said to me, why don't you just have dinner later? Like wow, I can do that You know, so if now if I have dinner at 8 o'clock or 7 30, it's no big deal now But it was just this incredible pressure that I was putting on myself And I don't know why I was doing it to myself But it was just something like this is dinner time dinner has to happen right now But it was just been liberating to kind of free myself. Hey, I can have dinner whenever I want to Except we were talking before the panel about about the importance of sleep, right? So we know the importance of food We know the importance of sleep and you were saying that you managed to get four boys to bed By 7 30 by 7 30 we do we have a pretty strict now I mean, obviously we get them in bed They chat a little bit, but I mean, I think that it is important I mean for kids in general that especially in this day and age when our lives are moving faster I was just saying this when I was speaking them our lives are moving faster than they've ever moved before right now because of the you know technology highway because of all of You know and the pressures that kids have. I mean, there's more homework than I've ever seen in kindergarten now Kids our kids are bringing home folders of Five-year-olds, you know of homework starting at a really young age There's you know the pressure to do extracurricular activities to keep them busy and keep them involved and socializing and socialize and things like that and active There's pressures on parents across the board and I'll have to say you know, I agree with you that you know, we I'm not sure you know on every all of the panel, but I know that for us I mean we aren't you know, we are anomaly I mean we are we do have the ability and capabilities to put dinner on the table earlier We aren't we're not I mean it's not lost to me that we're very blessed like our family is you know that We can't put the dinner we can't put the dinner on the table earlier because we don't We're not working a job where someone else is controlling our schedule. We don't have the funds We don't have this so you know, I'm speaking from a place of not being in that position And my heart goes out to those families because I deal a lot with that with my charity You know hunger in and nutritional education and hunger around around the glow, but So I see that a lot We do our best to get them on a schedule and keep them I think the most important thing is whether they go to bed at 7 38 8 30 that is it's consistent I think kids need consistency and structure Um, and that's something we found with our four boys because we could do a whole research on just four kids I mean like we have enough kids. We have an almost a soccer team So like but we we found that the consistency is more important And then we were saying is that you know, it's really about and and what you were saying earlier as well Is that it's really the quality Um that you're giving to the kids whether you're making a pb and j Whether you're making a roasted chicken, whatever you're doing It's the quality that we're finding in research that's going to be most effective for our for our next generation for our kids It's the quality of time spent It's the nurturing spent with our kids and those quality moments and that kind of time Our kids don't kids don't care. I mean they they just want to see you They want to hear your voice. They want to be told they're they're loved They want to be you know fed and nurtured and that's what they want I mean and structure and I think that that's you know, it's very simplistic You know, we we I think our society and our world we tend to make it very very complicated But it's very simple, you know, I know that we didn't grow up I didn't grow up with a lot of money in my family We grew up You know low income and but we had lots of love and It goes a long way and that nurturing and that quality time. So Yeah, it's just as you said, it's trying to find that time It's trying to do, you know, what do I do in this little narrow window of time that I have? Would it be the cooking? Would it be the reading? You know, yeah, and it's compounded I mean, you know, I I I completely agree with you that When you don't even have predictability about your schedule You're not even sure when the time it's going to occur and we know that in addition to you know Raising the wages of so many of these women many of whom are single parents and you know the summer I had the opportunity to travel across the country and hear from women leading up to the white house summit And it was remarkable to me that the most of the the comments and the the the the the difficulty cross income spectrums and You know, the types of job was What were simple? They were child care And my ability to connect with my children and know that they Having them know that I'm there and I'm working really hard even if I don't see them At night and you know the child care piece of it is is super important. Also, you know intersects with nutrition as well But you know, it's it's this idea that there's a well-being, you know, we feel we feel Good we're confident we can work if we know our children are fed taking care of rested healthy And that gives us, you know the opportunity to to be better contributors to society ultimately And our our struggle with you know, one of the one of the things about single moms Which we are learning more and more and more is that it's the likelihood of a mother working is much higher She's single not, you know, and it's just across the board and we know that It's not the case that you have very few very few people You mentioned divorce rates and Things earlier today where you have a lot of change in structure of the home and around scheduling There have been some studies about sort of how kids fare With the changing of relationships with their family and their home structure Whether they're changing because of relationships whether they're changing because You've moved a few times whether you're changed because your parent's schedule is different But there's a lot of uncertainty and there's a lot of Of unpredictability that does ultimately affect Kids livelihood and it comes from knowing what you're going to eat and when To knowing where you're going to see your parents and where you're going to sleep You know in some cases Did you when you decided to be a stay at home blogger work at home Was that because of the lack of support you were getting from your from your company in terms of wanting to be an Engaged dad or even be there when your when your child was born. Well when I worked for that company, uh I pretty much had to travel all the time It got so bad that I could be in my office one day and my boss could come to me and say tomorrow I need you to be in iraq So go home get your stuff packed and get ready to go. It was just like that. So I had to call my wife Uh, I have to go I got to go do this so I was constantly on the road You know and then you know cat you mentioned it in your talks, you know being on the road that much and Coming back home and there my wife says it has established her schedule You know and I come and disrupt everything and everything's all messed up for her Uh, but but that was a big part of it But the but another part of it that really motivated me to do something differently Because I was sitting in one of our executives office and he was talking to me You know, we want you to be an executive at this company And he started going through this litany of things like and you're gonna have to make these sacrifices You're gonna have to do this thing and when we tell you to do this you're gonna have to do this and this and this And it was like I was having an out-of-body experience Like like I don't want to do any of that I don't want to make any of those sacrifices at all Because really for me the price was too high because I knew that I wouldn't have the time to engage with my family and be there for my kids I knew I'd constantly be on the road. I knew I'd be in the office till 11 o'clock at night And I I simply did not want to do that. So, uh, it was about About six months later that I turned in my resignation and decided to start my own company and do things for myself So it was it was what your company was asking and the complete did they did they know that did they did they try to entice you to stay by saying Oh, you well, they didn't they tried to entice me to stay with money Right with money with money. So it's that like that line from madman. That's what the money is for You know money wasn't the thing Right So, I mean they they didn't really get it What it was really the crux of the matter So And and I worked in an industry and I'll admit I've worked in the construction industry So, you know, they're still a bit behind And a lot of things because there's a lot of macho attitudes within that industry so it was a bit difficult, uh, but I just did not want to do the things they wanted me to do I believed that my family was more important I believe that doing other things that things I'm doing now are more important than what I was doing there. So, uh, It was an easy decision for me really It's just interesting to hear you say that because you know, there's a fair amount of talk now about paternity leave and dad's getting more engaged and and companies You know, particularly in silicon valley offering really good paid leave for mothers and fathers And I actually I was talking to a woman who works in human resources at twitter Saying that the difficulty is actually getting them to take it. They offer it, but they can't get the men to take it Well, a lot of the guys don't take it because there is that pressure that they feel as if they aren't committed Like hey man, really you're gonna take two weeks off. We need you You need to be here. I mean, it's just what you talked about women feel that men feel that same pressure too Like if you're not here being committed to the job, you know We can get someone else and and guys feel that pressure like if I don't do it They'll get somebody else to fire me. I won't be able to take care of my family So that's one of the big reasons why men don't take it I know a lot of guys who who have had it at their companies if they don't take it Because they don't want to be seen as a slacker, right? You know, some of the the policies, you know, this is it's rare in this country to have Programs of your company offers it, but it's not a federal mandate, obviously But in some areas like california, for instance, where there has been a paid leave program for 10 years There's now data That shows what the uptake is and it's very interesting if you look at the california data that actually shows The increased rates of men taking leave for caregiving of their children And I think the more we highlight the fact that it is actually a need and actually can be a norm I think that it sort of demystifies it a little bit and the stigma really just is just Helpable. I mean, you talk about this this idea that people don't take it even if it's there In other countries it's required Maternity and paternity in some in some countries you have to take it I understand and so this idea that it's actually a mandate because it's a good idea It's a good for you and it's good for your child And we're not seeing that at all here. You know when I left my company I had 500 hours of unused vacation time Because there was just this pressure like you just don't take a day off you come to work and that's what you do And and and I was thinking about this when I quit like 500 hours. That's a lot of That would be interesting Unused hours of vacation exists. It's like a kind of time that should exist But doesn't exist yet and incidentally for people who know the the california model that you're talking about is that california has had six weeks Guaranteed paid leave for caregiving of Children or parents and it's paid for by a small contribution from people's payroll tax So businesses don't have to pay it and the studies do show that In terms of getting men to take it having it be paid makes a big difference because of the care of the bread winning responsibility and having it available And also, I mean they have seen a steady uptick in both men and women taking leave and businesses have not suffered The way that businesses said they would 10 years ago when they started it But that's been a really I think what it's four states now that have that Yeah, three and one one that has it but hasn't figured out Right has it right Washington. So and we actually just last month we Announced grants to three states to do initial additional analysis Of programs and we know that there are a lot of efforts on the ground to continue to at least do this at the state level Knowing that we don't have a federal program And what we're finding as you pointed out, which is a big part of the discussion The summer was the business community coming forward as well to say Not only do I have maternity and paternity but my employee Employees use it and the the business community partnership with these policy efforts is so incredibly important and we see you mentioned twitter I think there are a lot of companies who are Really happy to come forward and talk about their practices and why it works for them companies that are profitable Popular and have a diverse workforce And I think that's another key to this conversation is that you know Many of these sensible policies and it's also the same with minimum wage increases across the country We know that the business community is is behind them and they know that their workers Need this and it's an imperative for them ultimately if they want to attract and retain the best talent Although again your experience just really makes me question to what extent the business community really is behind it I mean some some are certainly I think it's our job to to find I think it's our job to highlight where those those wins are and to highlight where those best practices are because We live in a very competitive economy and part of our our job is to create a space where folks can come together and say Look, I did this. I'm a leader in my industry You can do it too, but it can create the illusion also that that business in general is on board with us I mean, I think it's also really really important to hear the these case studies as well to be reminded And the people who work at these companies will eventually move on to these other companies that offer these benefits and The companies will be forced to change or they'll lose all the talent If we made it mandatory then that would take care of all the issues Let's just make it mandatory like everybody else in the world And that way no one has to worry about anything right the businesses or the business people because they there's It becomes a law right becomes a policy right that no one has to worry about it I had that same thought. I mean just in my driveway this week I was talking to my next door neighbor who just had a had a little baby and it was a little baby I mean, you know born like six, you know six pounds and she's she's a lawyer with a suburban firm and her husband is too And she she went back at six weeks And in fact she had a trial and and so she had to sort of go back and do some work at five weeks And it didn't sound like her husband was getting any paternity leave at all and I saw them holding this little I mean the baby now weighs maybe nine pounds in the baby care It is in daycare, you know and and daycare, that's great I mean daycare is great, but not at that age and I had I had that same thought You know if if if two lawyers working for law firms in the DC area, that's all she gets then It's just gonna make it affordable for people who don't have to be mandatory Like myself who on their own businesses. I had a baby My wife had our first three and I had our last we were actually pregnant for six months together But that's a whole nother page But we were pregnant together for six months and um and I had a baby and I had because I was a sole breadwinner And our and I had a hard pregnancy So I had a hard labor I should say and and not our littlest guy who I had was in the nicky for 10 days And I mean I didn't I you know, I only had I'm a freelance. I have my company. It's all freelance and so Um and I had to go back to work being this whole breadwinner after four weeks I mean so I had to we had to get him out of the nicky Get him, you know, and then we had another we had two babies So it's you know, it's the pressure is not only for people who have bosses But who are bosses right and have small companies and small businesses right and we need more policy for small business owners as well around these things Yeah, that's that's um That's a remarkable anecdote as well. I feel like I should open it up to questions It's a little hard for us to see but um and then I uh, I might take some questions from twitter also the only rule Of the questions is that um at some point the answer has to have to do with the white house garden We have a question Hello, hi My question goes back to nutrition. I am a mother of an 11 month old and um, I'm in academia And it was also very challenging people say oh academia is supposed to be easier You know, you can kind of take your time and um, I found it very challenging and it goes back to the nutrition thing with breastfeeding um And I found that to be very Challenging among friends of mine who are like you want to breastfeed. Do you know that's going to do to your body? Do you how are how are you going to get that support? But I had a very hard time in academia having the conversation with them about I need a place to pump Um, and this is important for the nutrition of my child So I wanted to see what your insights are there and just one other thing was going back to husbands and Kind of having that conversation with my husband about I cannot do this alone. I didn't get here alone You were with me when we made this child Um, and you will be with me to do everything else But also making that ask of him because he was used to very traditional roles. So how um Any conversation that you can offer on you know making that asked for me? It was very challenging. But once I did he really stepped up to the plate and actually wanted to So I'll just quickly and on nursing mothers. Um, I have a funny story about going having jury duty when I was nursing and Um, I was working and I went in and I told the judge very sternly. I'm nursing and she goes. We'll take breaks so um So I carted my you know my my supplies with me every day to jury duty I was selected it was a five-day trial and um Had to put my stuff through the the the machine and I'll never forget the face of the security guard As my stuff was going through and he says is this your bag, ma'am? And I said yes, it is my bag and um, and as he's pulling it over and he's he's starting to unzip But I was like, it's a breast pump. Oh You go right ahead. So if you ever want to sneak something into the dc court, just tell him you're Tell him you're carrying a breast pump So, uh, one one of the things that we did at the department of labor. I mean this administration in the last couple of years was to clarify that uh, folks break a break a rule under the wage and hour division that Required companies within a certain parameters I'm not sure if your particular employer would be in this category But the idea is that you allow nurse time break time for nursing mothers, which also includes space You have to have a locked door. It cannot be a bathroom And part of what we're doing too is to help help educate employers and people about what this is and what this means I was talking to a local Union representative from the Washington metro and she was saying how when the rule first came out There was a lot of questions. What does this mean? How do we do it? And she told me the story of a but there was a woman who was a bus engineer And she her job most mostly was fixing the buses as they came through the station and she said, you know in that case There were a lot of questions, but we ultimately figured it out. She was nursing. She needed to pump and We figured out a place for her But there was a lot of confusion in the beginning and I think even having these conversations and talking about these issues is super important But there are protections depending on where you are and the the situation specifically where now Many employers are required to allow that protection in that space for you Did anybody want to respond to the making the ask part of the question like why it's so hard to ask your partner to help help Because it can be really hard. Well, let me let me address that from my perspective Because actually a lot of women email me with this specific question And it's something I had to learn from my own relationship with my wife Uh, there are a lot of things that I guess I wasn't doing that. She was very frustrated about And she was just angry about it all the time and I didn't know this Because she never said anything about it until one day there. We had a big argument She let me know. Hey, I want you to do this this and this and then I just said why didn't you ask me to like well You should know like I need you to specifically Say what it is you want me to do because I have my own assumptions On what needs to get done and a lot of guys are the same way and you know spouses in general You know, they they have their own ways of doing things. Uh, they have their own way that they were brought up They're uh things that they believe in ways that they do things We have to be very open with these conversations and fully express clearly I need you to do this because this will be very helpful to me And like you said when you when you said it that way to your husband, they did it But sometimes we hold on to this anger and these things because we make these assumptions That really aren't true and we really need to be more vocal about it And that really helps in relationships and helps with the communication Because you know one partner is not just angry and then just sitting there upset because something's not happening Or someone's not meeting their needs or doing what they need them to do We have to be more open and more honest and more forthcoming About what we need in a relationship, especially when their children involved because uh, you know, I have three children And they they give me very stressed quite often And I know my wife trying My wife and I try to be a unified team With the kids, but we have to know what we need from each other to make sure that we can give our kids what they need And I think it's important to To go with it, you know, I think there's still even though I didn't grow up in a traditional home I didn't have two parents. I still have these notions and they're they're not even my experience But I still have them, you know, and you know, if if something happened god forbid and my husband was gone for a period of time I'm pretty sure I could figure out how to use the laundry machine But I just don't go down to the basement. It's just not what I do And you know, there are days when, you know, I I I look inside and I'm like, you know, is there am I am I not setting the role model for my daughter because I fold my own laundry And no, I don't really have that concern But I think that there's even there these residual This is just part of who we are where we feel like we've got to live up to this this paradigm But I think that's part of the new american family is, you know, what does that even look like? And I think we're all creating it in this room Questions Hi, my name is Priya Kumar a question when we were talking about kind of the the mandatory paid leave, which I agree It's a really important thing But in a complicated political environment, how do you Pitch or explain to either taxpayers or businesses that that is something they should fund? Who wants to take that question? Well, I mean from the perspective of You know, I Yeah, I mean there's a lot of different ways to go about it I think that the key Going back to the point that I was making too Is having leadership in the communities and in the industries and workers and work in workplaces where You have industry leaders saying This is a big deal. I can do this and I know it varies if we're talking about a google versus a small business But I think that a big part of how we move in this country Is through these little labs that we call like our communities and our states and I think The more we can shine a light on what's happening at the local level where there are wins and part of our job is to study those and To show how they are working. I think the better I think there's a there is in some area an imperative to be competitive And I think that if we're creative and looking at those industries where we know we have labor shortages And we know we're trying to attract talent what we can do creatively with those industry leaders to make the workplaces More amenable to working families. I think is one creative way that we could do that Sarah bone when you were looking at families in north carolina, I assume they were in north carolina Did you see any any? I know you talk in your study about ways in which life could be made easier for the workers that you're That you're studying you talk about You know that community food banks could provide ready-made meals and that people could take home Did you see anything bubbling up from the local level that would be a fix? For food Well for to make to make people's lives easier I'm you're not going to be seeing paid leave initiatives bubbling up, but I'm thinking of other other community or Or state initiatives um I mean Most of what we looked at was food. So I have more examples for food and we have you do see Interesting, you know people are resilient and creative and they come up with with different things and and you see it at all levels Like we heard about one group of moms that started cooking They started like a frozen meal swap where they've each cooked five of the same one and then they'd all swap So you see you know you get five meals and you only have to cook once and that's like a really local level Like a a neighborhood where these low-income moms this example was middle-class mom The low-income moms we interviewed also talked they talked about just sharing cooking like cooking together cooking with friends and In doing that as a way to share labor, but it's also fun and you know and then we there's and there's lots of there's bigger level things and Including like the market has answers like, um, you know, I can have my groceries delivered to my door now I can have I can have almost anything delivered to my door and that that helps by drones eventually I know But um But some of those fixes are not they're not affordable for lots of families Like there's there's a lot of really good healthy prepared food at a lot of grocery stores now But not everyone can afford it So So we talked a little bit at the end about how we you know, we don't we haven't figured this out But maybe we should start talking about what are some more collective Ways of thinking about this kind of work that could be more accessible to all families Like is there a way to use school kitchens for to go meals that would be Um, affordable that families could then heat up when they get home and they don't have any time or we have a grocer Grocers on wheels and Raleigh that he is Um Continuing the legacy of his dad is specifically he's bringing produce to neighborhoods He's specifically focusing on food insecure neighborhoods and and doing it in a way that works works for for those neighborhoods He accepts food stands. He takes credit. Um and So I think there are a lot of good ideas that are coming from all these different pockets, but We could also use some help from the federal and state level in terms of of bigger scale things I think the busing programs for you know, sending, you know fresh produce out to food deserts, you know And uh, Illinois is doing a lot of those and some other, you know states and and local cities have started You know having programs popping up like that, which I think are fantastic because you don't have any Access and in food deserts in places that are food insecure to any kind of fresh produce or fresh food one thing that my charity has done is um share who's on tour right now is Chosen my charity chefs humanity for as a go-to charity to do a mobile giving campaign throughout her tour And what we've done is we've taken it and created a program with wholesome wave And um, which is out of baltimore and what we're doing is we're doing a program called a double value coupon program So anyone that's on food stamps, um, or anybody participating in snap can go to their local Farmers market because there's many many urban farm and farmers markets and accessibility Um and use their food stamps for a two for one fresh fruit and vegetable Program and then we're trying to expand that out to just regular Grocery stores. I mean affordable grocery stores when I talk about Whole Foods and which that that's a possibility But mostly to the affordable grocery stores and grocers Um and and the larger chains that that are definitely much more affordable So programs like that. I mean if we can continue doing some of those through charities, um, but I agree with sarahs that we You know, we'd be programs that are are, you know funded by the federal government is also helpful More questions I see one in the back um So what I'm kind of interested in is I hear about all of these great options for choice and I'm curious about the dichotomy between Supporting dads that are making choices to cut back and then in families where moms maybe are choosing To work part-time or halftime or dads are choosing to work part-time or halftime and then hearing things Where we hear we don't want people to choose to stay home Or we don't want people to be not fully engaged in the workforce or contributing And how we align giving people more options to work full-time if they want to with not Condemning people that are making choices to spend more time with family so that we're encouraging all of the choices instead of just some Did you dad that directed anybody in particular on the panel Well, you know, I will just start by saying I completely agree with you I think at this part of the new american family is that we all have, you know More choices than we ever have In the labor force and how we decide to raise our children and pursue careers But I think that for so many people, you know, their choice is whether or not they work the extra shift or You know make it home for bedtime and I think that there's this idea that Within people's realities there are some choices that Are painful and they're hard and you know what we can do to to change the paradigm and the policies so that The folks that simply, you know, in some ways don't feel like they even have one can still Make you know be a part and a present part of their their family Which we think is also how you're successful It's being successful at home and being successful in the workplace And I think right now so many people have to choose one or the other Or neither in some cases right what you want is people making choices in a landscape where they have real options And where they have support so that they're not choosing to stay home because there's no child care or no affordable child care They're choosing to stay home because that's what they prefer to do But there is child care available if they so it's a real choice I mean it sounds like you were to put you you were in a situation where there was actually the choice was so clear Because it wasn't a real Yeah, I mean but but so many guys I know a lot of guys who ended up being stay-at-home dads because you know when the recession came they were laid off They couldn't find a job. A lot of guys who are like, uh, you know 50 and above I just did a segment of my local tv station about this. There were so many guys Who simply opted out like i'm not even going to try anymore I think there's no point. I can't get a job. So, uh, you know by default he became a stay-at-home dad I don't know if that was a lot of those guys's initial choice I mean they've they've become comfortable with it But for so many people the choice was made for them and they ended up having to live with the consequences Uh and you know for for some people that worked out well for some people doesn't work out so well And and like you said being able to make that active choice Is so important in people's lives because they feel as if they're in control And and they have that sense of purpose and they they feel as if this is something that I wanted to do It's not something that was forced on me. Uh, and when you have those choices I think you're better able to stand behind those those choices and what you've decided to do Yeah, that's well, but I think we have time for one more question, but we already know what the answer is going to be You guys touched on this a little bit, but I'm hoping that you can talk about it Just a little bit more and this is for anybody who wants to weigh in. Um, I'm thinking about You mentioned like mainstreaming the realities of this modern family dynamic And I'm wondering if you can talk about really the effects of social media shaming and I do mean pinterest You know making you feel like you're you know, like how to get everything right facebook You look at that and you think that all your friends are are doing it right and you're doing it wrong Um in perpetuating these myths and expectations, but also really the communities of support The extent to which those are Really encouraging the normalization of these modern family dynamics. Certainly what you're doing with moca dad comes to mind as Something that's helping people to kind of get to that Well, I was going to bring this up too because it's so important today with social media and all online platforms No, I make my living online and you know, I love online, but The internet makes me cry some days Because just just to see how people treat one another because they've been sitting behind the screen You talked about the shaming the food shaming is horrendous online I can see someone send out a tweet says hey, you know, I'm so tired All I have the energy for is to heat up a pizza for my kids Then all these people start attacking them. I can't believe you're defeating your kids that I can't believe you're doing that You're a terrible mom blah blah blah like oh my god, this is awful Like you have no idea what that person is going through and What their life is like and you're in no position to judge what they're doing But there's so much pressure on us to do the right things In people's minds and what we've been conditioned to believe is the right thing That and the online social media just amplifies it so much It just builds up that stress So I I really think that you talked about the communities of support when you can find those good communities of support. That's golden Like-minded people who want to help you who want to encourage you to give you advice and and show you different things to different ways to do things and Some things that you may not have considered before mean take advantage of any of those communities Not only online, but in the real world when you have those support communities It just makes everything better for you, you know, I I want to add to that I think there are there are a couple things I think we can change the conversation With social media. We have an unprecedented opportunity to to be responsible and using social media To to start changing the way we think about these things We have a a new campaign Department of labor hashtag lead on leave where we have a video that was our first viral video ever A couple weeks ago and it's an animation and it's two women who are pregnant One is from the United States and one is in Germany and obviously, you know how the story goes But it was opened by I think over four million people and we don't have that kind of Viewership at all on most of the things that we do and we just use that little small thing to start a conversation But on the other hand, I think the community for women and working moms who get into like is this happening to me only And honestly from a personal perspective It's even if it's like some random crazy person If you read something that's like, well, yeah, that happened to me. Yes My child woke up five times last night or yes You know, this is how i'm feeling about this decision I made and in some ways I think you know, there are some networks We work with moms rising in other groups that are really starting to To to create spaces where you can at least see yourself online Even if you don't participate you can just you know read the scrolls until you're sick But I think that is an area where a lot of Working moms didn't have that network before and so I think there's a way to feel part of something Even if you are just on the sidelines to absorb that That that conversation and and see what's going on in other people's lives and knowing that you're not by yourself Well, I think that that's all the time we have for questions except, uh, I just wanted to I understand and you've worked with the first lady on her nutrition program and Yeah, so well, I was cooking at the white house A couple years ago and we were I was doing it was for greek independence day Because I always have a chef and especially greek american like myself who comes in and cooks for You know the bombas and all of their guests and and so i'm cooking in the kitchen and I said, you know I really want to go out to the garden and get some herbs And so the chef calls down to the snipers and says Tell or the security and says tell the snipers to stand down. We're going out to get herbs So And they did it and they lived the fastest herbs I ever cut Well, thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much to our panelists. Y'all were really wonderful and uh, it's a great conversation Thank you. Thank you for having us