 Welcome back to the original gangsters podcast. I'm Jimmy Bucciolato here at the OG command center with my friend and colleague the intrepid Scott Bernstein, you know, and Benny the engineer videographer extraordinaire is with us as well. We thank you for watching and listening want to remind everyone before we get started. If you like our show, please subscribe to our video channel on YouTube, please subscribe to our audio podcast run Apple Google Spotify. We appreciate your subs following us on social media. Spread the word it's really helpful. And I also want to remind audiences that if you if you primarily listen to our audio podcast, we have some video exclusives. Bernie's doing these quick hitter episodes that we don't necessarily upload the audio. So you may want to go back and forth and see what kind of content is out there. And at the same time for our video audience members. Keep in mind we recorded audio versions of this podcast for what three years before we we set up the video show. So we have an extensive media over over 50. Yeah, we are there are quite a few episodes that are audio only some of them we have been uploading to the video channel is kind of like greatest hits. But there are a lot of episodes that probably will remain just in the audio catalog. And so you may want to check out and cross over because, you know, there's some content only audio some content only video. So anyhow, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. We have a Philly episode today that's usually a popular topic. And we're going to look at what's going on in terms of politics in the underworld Philadelphia underworld, some people going into prison, some people coming out. And so Scott's going to bring us up to date on the administration and just some other things Philly, you know, some house housekeeping notes and kind of where we stand in the summer of 2023, with the pecking order there, as Jimmy said, Stevie Mazone and Dom Grande, who were two, you know, major shot collars in this crime family, reported to prison in the late winter early spring of this year. And that means there are slots to be filled. And at the same time that they were going into prison, the person that I think is going to be the focus of this episode was coming out of prison. And I think we might call this episode, you know, the mouse is back in the house. Joe Mouse or Mousey Mass Amino came out after doing 12 years in January and is either finishing up his time in a halfway house or is already out of the halfway house. But he was an underboss for this Bruno Scarfield crime family back in the 2000s. And it looks like he will be returning to that post soon, based on what we're hearing in South Philly. So he was underboss under Uncle Joe, yeah, Legambi, when those other guys were in prison, right? The first time when the Marlino Mazzone crew, Borghese, when that when that triumvirate went away in around 2000, and they were all locked up through that most of that decade of the 2000s. Yeah, Joe Mouse stepped up to the number two spot. You know, he's he's a you know, it's a rags to riches kind of mob story. He was just a bartender in a bookie in New Jersey when he started. And I don't think anybody foresaw Joe Mouse as a administrator. But that's how his mob career evolved. And from you know, talking to people that are, you know, have their finger on the pulse. He was he was pretty good at it back then. And he's got a lot of respect. A lot of people like him. He's he's he scares people. He's an unapologetic gangster. I think his arrest record is is I think the last I heard he had 48 career arrests, you know, over a half dozen felony convictions has done a lot of prison time. He he looks like something out of central custody. And he's very rugged looking. We've mentioned off air. He's kind of an outlier in the mafia that he he sports facial hair. And it seems to fly. Nobody. He doesn't get reprimanded for it hasn't been forced to shave the mustache. It's had that same mustache for for a good 3040 years. And I know in New York, that probably wouldn't fly. They seem a lot shorter about that. But you know, so Joe Mouse walked out of prison. And from what I understand, he's working a job right now as part of his supervised release. And like a grocery store, convenience store that he's actually like sweep sweeping floors. But in a very regal, you know, in a mob royalty manner, he holds court there. Yeah, that he kind of holds court there. And people are coming to pay their respects. And it looks like, you know, the stars have aligned for him again, where, you know, Mazone went away in 2000, and around 2002, three ish mass, Mass Amino, I believe became underboss shortly after Mazzone went away. And now Mazzone's going away 20 years later and it looks like Mass Amino is going to come up and take his place in the admin. When those guys were back on the street. Was he demoted or was he in was he in prison? He went to prison, which is why he kind of resolved gave up the underboss position. Yeah. And he is from like the legambicamp did not come up around the Merlinos or that Merlino group of childhood friends that were all the sons and nephews of a lot of the Scarful era guys. He he came up with Legambi, who I guess was part of the Merlino group, but a different era. He's he's 70. Joe Mouse is 73 right now. The Merlino crew are all just turning 60 61. So there's about 12 13 years difference. And Mass Amino Mass Amino rather was I believe he was made understantful. That's interesting. He could have been made in one of the early Natali Merlino ceremonies. But I think he was made understantful. So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like culturally if you look at the because each Borgata has the sort of cultural idiosyncrasies. I mean, there's certain universal things, right? You know, if you're made guy, things like that. But the Philly guy seemed to really like titles. Yes. And like administrative kind of things. Don't think well, I think one of the things I've heard specifically about Joey Merlino and his leadership style is Joey loves giving out titles. He loves giving out positions. He recognizes that there's currency in that. Yeah. And even if there are a lot of guys, you know, if there are even if there are more chiefs than Indians, it benefits him keeping everybody happy. Yeah. Making them feel appreciated. And and oftentimes switching those roles. Right. On the on the fly. So a guy could be underbossed for a couple years and then he can be a cop or maybe even a soldier at some point. But at one point he was, you know, he was number two. I know I think of Marty Angelini or Marty Angelina now in terms of that that he became underbossed for a while in the 2000s, I think when Joe Mouse had to go serve some prison time. And he was just kind of representing the Merlino camp as the number two. And then fell back. And I believe he's a captain now. But it's just it's interesting how how Joey maneuvers and and slots people. But yes, I think that's a very astute observation. So would you say that he's acting underboss or do you think he's gonna this is for the foreseeable future? Or, you know, when Stevie Mazzone's got six years to do. Right. It's not a short period of time. Dom Grindy's got seven years to do. So and I also let me backtrack for a second. My my sources are saying it's not in stone that he's necessarily going to come back as the underboss, but that he's going to come back into the administration. They're predicting that he'll be coming back into the coming back into the underboss position. But it's also been floated to me that he could become conciliary and Joe Legambi, who's now the kind of the semi retired conciliary who who was a mentor to Mass Amino could step away in the full retirement and go down to Florida or just stay in South Philly and not have to be involved in as much and that Mass Amino would become a conciliary. Is is is Legambi officially the conciliary? Is he sort of like a conciliary emeritus? Or how would you? I think he can. There's so many titles. Yeah, it's confusing. Well, I think he is from from what I can glean. So he was acting boss from 2000 to 2000 and 20 or 19. Whatever year that he had his 80th birthday party and he's 83 now. So that was I think it was 20 or might have been 19 regardless. And that was when he officially stepped down as acting boss and went into a semi retirement while still holding a conciliary post. I think he's the official conciliary and there is an acting conciliary that I believe has switched between Fafiana, Rella and and and Joe Scoops, Lakata, New Jersey, and it's kind of like whenever someone needs a troubleshoot, they'll troubleshoot. And if and if it's Legambi that needs to step in, he'll step in. If it's one of those other two, they'll they'll do the job. So I think either way, you know, Legambi, he's 83 years old. I don't think he he wants to keep doing this. Some of it, it's just been he's been a good company, man. So it brings stability. Yeah. And Fafi is one of these Scarfo era guys that did did 25 years and came out about five years ago and is one of these conduits between the two generations of the the Scarfo era and then those younger sons and nephews of the Scarfo era guys that were basically were errand boys for Fafi. And now those are the guys run in the family and Fafi's been seen hanging out a lot more with the younger he's in the 70s, just like Joe Mouse's and he's hanging a lot with the guys in their fifties and in early sixties. And so it's kind of being that again, that kind of bridge. Yeah. And he's he's a trusted. Very his insights very valued and trusted. He's at the clubhouse a lot. And I know he he's one of those people that acts as a go between for. The Merlino Legambi camp. And then there's two other camps out there that are underneath the Bruno Scarfo banner, old Scarfo era guys that aren't necessarily underneath Joey. I mean, I guess they are. It's very it's a it's a much looser configuration in Philly than I think traditional mob hierarchy would be. But the punjitors and and and Phil Narducci are out there as well, kind of doing their own things. I think Narducci is aligned with the 10th and O guys, which is an independent half Irish, half Italian. But there's someone someone is the liaison between Narducci and Joey's at. I think Mazzone was Margarano or like Mazzone made guy. But isn't there someone who like kind of runs? Not interference, not the right way to put it. But because like you said, Fafi is one of those guys. He's one of those guys that can communicate. And I think Stevie Stevie was one of those guys, too. That some of those older Scarfo era members aren't huge fans of the way Joey runs the family. I think there's some of that dynamic that I mentioned before where when they were getting their buttons and and coming into their own in the mafia, Joey was just a guy that went and got their dry cleaning. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And it frankly caused a lot of trouble when he was a young guy that these older guys had to go sort out fighting in the club, stealing, you know, leveraging who his dad and and his connection to Nicky Scarfo and whatnot. And I think they have a hard time kind of like to make another pop culture analogy. But, you know, like when Feach came home or Richie Aprio comes home in the Sopranos and Tony now is is the kingpin. Yeah. And they refer to him as kid. Yeah. Tony doesn't like that. So I know that Fafi's been one of those guys and Stevie Mazzone is one of those guys who, although he is a Joey contemporary, I I've been told that that specifically Narducci respects Stevie and is OK doing. Business Stevie. But again, it's still. It's like you have three families operating within one organization. Well, it's interesting because, you know, there's a lot we don't know. It's a secret society. And so they don't issue press releases. So we do the best we can in terms of decoding and it should be mentioned that both Phil Narducci and Joey Punch, whether or not they're, I believe they are, but whether or not they are back fully into organized crime mode or not, they are both very, very successful, legitimate businessmen right now. They're that are making a lot of money legitimately. Yeah, I remember you were reporting that. Phil Narducci with his with his restaurant, Chicks, which is a nod to his dad, Chicky Narducci. And it's it gets great reviews. And he also was invested, I know, into some MMA stuff and some boxing stuff, real estate. And then and then Joey Punch is I heard, you know, making millions legitimately in the real estate business. Well, again, each each Borgata has its own idiosyncrasies. And I think one way of thinking about it is if you have a situation where it's more of a confederation and sometimes things are more horizontal, then we might traditionally think with a Cosa Nostra organization. So if you have this kind of faction who is doing its own thing, and then it becomes puzzling because you find out, well, maybe they're not even kicking up. And you think, well, how is that possible? Well, that only is an issue if whoever the technical boss is, how far they're willing to go to enforce that. And if and if Joey, Joey ain't going to war with the punchers or Phil Narducci, whether or not they like each other or not. So you could if you're a faction, you could test the waters and see now there's some guys, we know, like in New York, it's happened, we're like, if you don't kick up, then there's going to be violence. But in some cases, we know things were murky in Detroit in the 90s with technically Jack Tocco was the boss. But we know the Giacoloni's, we know Tony Z. They were doing some Tony Z was making his own guy. There was some stuff off the books. And again, it only matters if Jack Tocco is willing to how far he's willing to go to enforce that. So sometimes things are murky. I think in both the situations we're talking about, though, when it comes to Jack Tocco and the Detroit guys in the 90s and Merlino in the more modern filly era, I think they've meaning Merlino and Tocco have made calculated. Political decisions as bosses to give that autonomy to these people and take a hands off approach. And kind of foster an environment where maybe he's not going to be kicked up to. Maybe he's not going to be deferred to and he's OK with that for the sake of keeping everything copacetic. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting that in terms of street politics, because I don't know how that affects those crews that are like semi independent, their interactions with other crime groups or street guys, because one of the advantages you have to being a made guy and being part of an Italian cosmonoster organization is if someone fucks with you, you're fucking with the whole organization. Now, I don't know. Now, does that change things because, you know, if you get in some kind of entanglement and then you're going to go to Joey now and say, hey, you know, I'm being fucked with. Well, why would you can't have it both ways? Either you're either you're semi independent. I leave you alone or I would guess that Phil Narducci would never feel like he had to go to Joey for anything that he would feel like Joey should come to him. Yeah. I think Phil Narducci in some ways is like a. A Don in his own right without really being a Don. I don't know what we would call him. I would identify him as a capo right now. But he like he kind of is the rules, the roost of his own side of things there. He's been caught up since he got out of prison. He's been out of for his big sentence, which was the murder racketeering case for the Scarborough era. He did 25 years or whatever. But then since he's been out, he came out in about 10 years ago. He had to go back in for a year or two on a loan shark and extortion case. Well, let's so there may be some circumstances where he could just handle if there's some kind of issue with some other criminal group, he can handle it himself. Right. He's very, very, very connected. So well, that's what I was going to get to. But what happens if there's a discrepancy or disagreement with somebody from a New York family? I think Narducci is just as connected into New York he as Merlene on the game. So he wouldn't have to go. Yeah. Well, that's just my again. That's my reporting. I don't know for sure. Yeah. But but Narducci made a lot of connections in prison and he made a lot of connections when he was a young. Mob figure in the eight. I mean, he was doing hits for for Nikki and the chicken man and those guys when he was in his early 20s. Yeah, because an example, a real allegedly world example from that that I'm interested in because I like the transatlantic Sicilian stuff is the Cherry Hill Gambino's. When the Cherry Hill Gambino's were operating in Philly in South Jersey, they would have run ins with Philly guys. Well, they specifically had a beef with Narducci. Right. Right. That Nikki Scarfo had to. That's what I'm saying. So you had to go to the boss to. So so if hypothetically, let's say obviously Scarfo was a different kind of leader and Scarfo wouldn't tolerate semi-autonomous. I mean, he went to war with the Rico beat rate. He would not tolerate that. I understand. But just for the moment, hypothetical, if Scarfo would have played that game, we're like, OK, you're semi-autonomous, then that semi-autonomous crew gets in trouble to Cherry Hill Gambino's. It might be to your benefit to be able to go to Scarfo. Yeah, because you can't. Well, it's like you're saying that. Yeah, Scarfo wasn't down with the whole autonomy. He would have tolerated that. Right. But just hypothetically, Bruno was. Yeah. But Bruno. Bruno let Riccobini kind of run his own little crime family within a crime family. As long as he saw as you saw a Christmas bonus. But there's there's certain advantages to. Being able to go to the familiar. But specifically, Narducci, when he was in his 20s, got into some type of dispute with one of the Cherry Hill Gambino's, threatened to kill one of them or whatever. I think it was Manny Gambino. Yeah. And Nicky Scarfo had to step in and there was a sit down. And this was this was Phil Narducci, the same Phil Narducci. Now this was Phil Narducci in his in his 20s, back in in the mid 80s. So so it it's one thing to have some kind of disagreement with some debtor or some nickel and dime gangster. But if you have a dispute with like one of the five families, there may be some advantages to being able to say we have the whole organization behind us. And then I think it also makes sense. What has benefited Joey more than Joey Marlino and his crew. What has benefited them more than anything is the fact that Legambi got out of prison in the 90s. He wasn't supposed to be doing life in prison. He got the murder charge that actually him and Phil Narducci were both charged in, which was the the Frankie Flowers hit. And Legambi Legambi came on it for another. Sorry to interrupt. There was another guy that Bruno left alone. He was in it. He was independent, kind of was with a mob copper without even being a soldier, right? Kind of ran his own little part of the family without even being made. Right. And there were there were articles in the Philadelphia newspapers after Bruno died saying that Frankie Flowers could have been boss. Right. Or speculate. I mean, I showed you what kind of. Yeah. And he was the main guy. Right. But Legambi comes out of prison in 97. He was in there for 10 years and. It the dividends that it paid, I think, are still paying off where that Legambi can smooth things over for Joey with all those Scarfo era guys, because he was a Scarfo era guy. Yeah, that's good. So I'm guessing him being in the mix as the Scarfo era guys filtered out. And there was all of that conjecture and speculation 10 years ago or 10, 12 years ago that there was going to be a pending war in the Philadelphia Mafia with all the eras coming out of prison. They were all going to be on the street and they were all going to be fighting over the same piece. And that never happened. And the reason that never happened was because of the Joe Legambi. And again, that benefit and that should have never been, you know, if what was supposed to happen in 1987. He Joe Legambi was never supposed to see the light of day. He might have came out 30 years later, 40 years, but he wasn't coming on for 10 years. And that really helped Joey. And I think it's helped format where we are today with with the punjators kind of doing their thing with some of those other Scarfo guys. I think Nikki Whitmelano, another Scarfo era guys with the punjators and then Phil Narducci does his own thing with a bunch of guys that I heard he got a couple. He's had some some of his guys made in the last five to 10 years, but he's got a lot of independent guys behind him, a lot of younger guys that didn't want to. Line up behind Joey that are lining up behind Phil. And like I said, they're they're alleged an alliance with the 10th and O guys, which is a a group of multi ethnic. Yeah. Yeah. And they're relatively younger guys. They're guys that are now in there. I think the 10th and O has been around for a while, but the guys that are running 10th and O right now are guys that are in their late forties, mid forties. Johnny Garberino and Jeannie Boy Miller, I think are the are the names. But. So let's just go back to Joe Mouse for a second. And I don't know what Mouse's relationship with the Scarfa era guys was other other than his close relationship with the Gamby. So I don't know if Joe Mouse knows Phil Narducci or the Puncture Tours like well. I do know that. Joe Mouse is a character. And let's kind of just talk about some of, you know, anecdotally. Again, someone that is well liked by a lot of people, but scares a lot of people. And he's got a he's got that combination of the world. He is, again, just a hardcore gangster, you know, like every the type of guy that like every chromosome in your body, every every parcel of DNA in you is is is criminal. And I don't and I'm guessing that Joe Mouse wouldn't deny that that I think he's kind of proud of that. Franky the bomb. Sounds like a good thank you, the boy from Detroit. Yeah, kind of proud of that. And that's exemplified by a story we were talking about off off camera that happened when he became under boss in Iran, O2 or O3. He he was like holding meat and greets and like autograph sessions for his neighborhood because he was so proud of the fact that he had reached the administration and they got it, you know, they have wiretaps of one of one of his buddies. Hey, you know, Junior wants to come and meet the underboss that he's actually saying the underboss and wants to come and shake your hand and and and take a selfie and in Joe Mouse is all about it. It's it's interesting. It reminds me of, again, Frankie the bomb. So if people should check out Scott's book, Motor City Mafia, shameless self or promotion. No, I think I think the like I said, there's an analogy because Frank the bomb. Billy Jackaloney, they remind me of Detroit versions of Joe. I'm unapologetic. So if people there's no pretense there for Scott's book, there were some people that took exception to being mentioned in Scott's book and even even threatened litigation. And and Frankie, the bombs attitude was your goddamn right. I'm in that book. Yeah. And I should have been in that book. And let's give props to Bernstein for letting everybody know what a big bank gangster I was. Yeah. He was he was pretty enthusiastic about about being in your book where some of the other guys didn't appreciate it. So it's interesting, the different the different psychology will look at that will have if we want to keep on, you know, doing the compare and contrast, a guy like Joe Punch, a guy like Phil Narducci right now, they've at least in terms of what they want their public perception to be. They've reinvented themselves and they want to be known as reform gangsters that are now legitimate businessmen. I don't think Joe Mouse has any visions of of going, you know, wearing a jacket and tie to work and and punch in the clock. He has to do this, you know, for supervised release, where he's, you know, has a legitimate employment or whatnot. And I know he's always owned bars and again, just like Legambi, he got he got to start as a bartender. So he came from, you know, meager beginnings. But, you know, he's somebody that. You know, he was his last jail sentence was a little bit harsher than maybe it should have been. And the judge admitted it because throughout the whole trial, he was on trial with Legambi in a in a racketeering case at Legambi beat, but Joe Mouse didn't beat it. And throughout the whole trial, Joe Mouse was being very mouthy and quit in court. Yes. And quippy and joking a lot. And it's nothing that can upset a judge more than if you're not taking the proceedings in his courtroom seriously. Yeah. And and Joe Mouse was kind of making a little bit of a mockery of things. And he kept on the last couple of days of the trial, he kept on. Telling the media and telling the people in the courtroom gallery as well as I think some of the court officers, get that champagne on ice. You know, we're having a victory party in the back of the courtroom when the jury comes in and acquits us all. You got who? What kind of champagne are you buying? You know, a throwback to El Capone or something. And, you know, the verdict came down and Legambi was able to walk after two trials. There was a mistrial and then he was acquitted. But Joe Mouse and a guy, Anthony Stano, who was a part of that Joe Legambi pecking order, were both convicted. And the judge said at the sentencing with Massimino, Joe Mouse, that I'm giving you extra time because of your performance in the courtroom because of your behavior. Um, that's not to change subjects. But if you've anyone's following that YSL trial, that they've turned that into young for the young fog, black gangsters. That they've they've kind of turned the courtroom into a circus. There was actually an exchange or they handed the one guy some pain pills like right, right during the proceedings. So yeah, that that in that similar case, the judge is outraged. The judge is like, you're making a mockery of the court kind of thing. So that doesn't go well. Going back to the Franklin bomb, Billy Jackaloni, my first personal interaction with Billy Jackaloni and Frank the bomb was at Billy Jack or sorry, at Jackie Jackaloni's racketeering trial in 2006 that he was acquitted from. And the jury was coming back to give the verdict. And they didn't know that I was listening, but I was close enough where I could hear the conversation. This is before Frank the bomb knew me. I got to know Frank the bomb later. Yeah. And I could hear Billy Jackaloni say to Frank, hey, when the verdict comes in, just stay keep your mouth shut. Be quiet. And the verdict came in and they found Jackie not guilty. And Frank said, I think there is a God. Yeah, you know, like, like screaming, you know, victory. Like, you know, basically telling the court to go fuck themselves. And it was just very loud and celebrating Jackie's victory in court, which is somewhat ironic that Jackie would be the one to pull the strings when Billy with Billy died. But so, yeah, so kind of like that. And that's, I guess it's it's a very apt analogy to compare Frank the bomb and Joe Mouse. But then they're also Joe Mouse was caught writing letters in prison to debtors, sending threatening written letters, but also sending cards like Valentine's Day cards to his debtors with the words like thinking of you, motherfucker, that's classic. That's like so you couldn't make that. Yeah. So this guy is a real character. I think that he probably we talk about. In other words, when he gets out, you're not off the hook. Right. If you owe him money, he's coming to collect. Yes. Coming home at some point. And he's expecting to collect. So I think that, you know, you have a situation here where Joe Mouse is one of these guys that we talk about, you know, the triple crown of the mafia, loved, feared, respected. I think Joe Mouse probably comes close to checking all those boxes. Yeah. My understanding is New York guys like him. I don't think he's ever been a big earner or anything. He ran a pretty big book. He was known for being a collector and a good collector and someone that I think has respect from multiple generations and multiple factions within that group, because he was able to make the move from the stamp. He wasn't in Stanford Center Circle, but he was definitely in the stamp for organization that was deposed by the Marlena organization. And then he was able to kind of slot back right slot back in there after he did his I think he did some prison time, if I'm not mistaken, on the on the. John Stampa, 94 Rico case, and then had to go back in and do some New Jersey state prison time, which is when he gave up his underbought underbought slot for a couple of years in the 2000s to Marty Angelina. Then he came out, was free for a couple of years and then took the most recent Rico case with Ligambi going to Ligambi beating that he had to go do 12 years for. Now he's out of prison, he's 73, and it looks like he's going to come back into the admin. I would guess underboss, but it's possible that he could replace Ligambi is considered the area. Yes, you mean 12 years for that kind of charge seems. Pretty, you know, giving you the the most sensing you could give someone in that. So let's move now from Joe Maus to some some other guys that we're hearing are playing a role in this administration shift with Mazzone and Dom Grande to go into prison. I don't think it has to be said at this point. If you're watching us, you know that Joey Merlino no longer resides in South Philly. He is a resident of South Florida. Since he got out of prison in 2011, he coordinated the FBI, according to my sources. He rules via intermediaries and buffers and liaisons call shots from afar and kind of does his own thing in Florida. But we had a lot of buffers. Yeah, a lot of buffers, you know, got it, you know, a button. A guy that pushes the button, you know, so there are there are two guys that are in place right now that I don't think there's any. There's not going to be any movement. Georgie Borgacy, who is Merlino's former consulieri that came out of prison about 10 years ago. My reporting was that he had been demoted from a consulieri all the way down to soldier and then worked his way back up from soldier to capo to now where he's acting boss for for Joey. And he is a he's an O.G. His his uncle is Joe Ligambi when he was just a teenager. He was hanging around with all those Scarfo guys. And from what I can hear and have learned that he considers himself a mafia historian and he's someone that has studied a lot of the the crime family genealogy and the and the political machinations of both his family and other families that he's kind of a student of the mafia. You know, that's an interesting not to digress too much, but the you know, doing this field research for a number of years. I was surprised at how many guys in the life that I've interacted with that that are really interested in it. It can go the other way, though, right, where they were someone that has knows nothing about the history of their family and doesn't care about it. And those are usually the guys who are like the straight gangster. Like, like, I'm just doing this because I'm a croak. Right. And I'm not really interested in the the the social history and all that. But some of the guys are take a take a real interest in the history and following stuff like this. So it's pretty. And I think George is the type of guy that has always wanted this spot, whether it was the official number one spot or the acting number one spot. He is the the last word in Philadelphia day to day in the Bruno Scarborough crime family, based on my reporting. He has a street boss. So there's almost like three bosses. And this goes to your Joey likes given out roles and positions. There's almost three boss. You know, you could almost say there are three bosses of the Philadelphia Mafia. You have Joey, who's the official boss. You have Georgie, who's the acting boss. And then you have Mikey Lancelotti, who's the alleged street boss. Well, there's there's some. Parallels with like the outfit back in the day. It was I'm not an outfit expert at all. But it's sort of murky about when Ricardo like he was the real boss. But but in some ways he he wasn't because he was he was like conciliary, but he was actually the boss. But actually. But so sometimes, like I said, this world can get murky in the political arrangements. It's not always easy. They don't release an organizational chart. Oh, I could see a corporation. I could see a situation where Mikey Lancelotti gets named under boss. So he's like street boss under boss and Joe Mouse becomes conciliary. Yeah. But so right now, the the two top spots that were firmed up before any of the of the of these legal cases that had to be resolved and then sending some some of the the core guys to prison. Before that, Georgie Borgesi was acting boss. Mikey Lance was street boss. And after that, that that part of the Philly hierarchy is not changed. But someone is having to replace Stevie Mazzone. Who was the number two guy and someone's going to have to replace Dom Grande, who was a cap who was a capo. And it was kind of a street boss in training. So wouldn't one of his guys just bump up. So so this is yeah. So what I'm hearing is Joey Merlino's brother-in-law, a guy who we should point out does not have a federal criminal record. But is. Pretty juiced in not just in South Philly, but in New York City with multiple allegedly multiple crime families and multiple mob shot callers. His name is. Joey Bonfiglio, he goes by the nickname Joey B. And I've been told that he is. I don't let me back up. I don't know if this guy is made. I don't know what role he exactly has in the mob. I know that 10 years ago, he married Joey's sister and was not a South Philly guy. He is a Queens guy who grew up around the Goddies. I heard he was running errands for junior Goddy back in the 90s, was very close or is very close to Queens capo in the Gambino's known known as Tommy the monk Sasano and that he's also very close to the Bacchiano family of the Bonanno Royal family. And that Vinny, some of the Vinny Bacchiano sons are very close to this Joey B. And Joey B was down in South Florida. Living with skinny Joey Merlino's sister, married his sister and that at some point in the last couple of years, I'm guessing during the pandemic, Natalie Merlino and Joey B moved to South Philly. And I'm being told that in the last couple of years, Joey B is handling Merlino business in South Philly and that Joey B, when he first got to South Philly, was spending quite a bit of time with Joe Legambi and Mikey Changelini. Sorry, Johnny Changelini. So I'm sorry, why are we talking about this? Because he's replacing Dom Grande. Now, whether or not whether or not he has an official title as a capo, whether or not he's been made, I don't know. But his role is going to be from what I understand. His role right now is a little bit like the Dom Grande role where he's this he's younger than Dom Grande. He's only thirty eight or thirty nine. And that he is in the inner circle now in the within the administration. Now, I don't know if that means he's a part of the administration or he's being used as an instrument of the administration. But he is a guy that I believe is filling some of the void. And I think there's another thing at play there, which is the New York connection. With the Bruno Scarfo clan, it had been traditionally the Gambino's that had always been tied to Bruno. And then. Genovese. When when Ralph Nutale took over, he was getting support from the Colombo's and the Luccheses. Merlino, when he first. Or through Merlino's reign, he's had a lot of strong connections with Genovese and Luccheses. But it looks like over the last. Five to five years, let's say, that the conduit now for the Philly Mafia to the bosses in New York is going through the Gambino's now again. And is no longer going through the Genovese. That's interesting. Or the Luccheses. And some of that has to do with the fact that Patsy Pirello, who was their Genovese guy, went to prison. Little Joe Perna, who was their Luccheses guy, had to go to prison. And they needed to fill that void. And I, from what I'm told, they used Joey's brother-in-law, Joey B, and his connections to the Gambino, the Queen's crew in Gambino and the Gambino family to build that bridge to the to the five families again, or to replace how they were using the Luccheses and the Genoveses through Pirello and Perna, that they're now using the Queen's Gambino crew. Tommy, the monks, Asano. Well, and Stamford was a Gambino guy. So it's kind of a rotated back and forth. But again, I want to be very clear. Joey B does not have a federal and he doesn't have any federal criminal record. I think he has some some minor New York state things when he was younger and I do not know and I'm not reporting that he is a made guy. I'm not reporting that he's a capo. I don't know. I just know that he has been inserted into a group of people at least at face. He's spending a lot of time with the guys that are running the show in Philly, and I'm hearing that he's representing Joey's interest in Philly with Joey B down to Florida. How does that play politically? If let's say if some guy and maybe not this, but just any any example. The guy is a captain, powerful captain. He goes away and instead of promoting from within. You insert some other guy and say, because I know this is make believe it not real, but the Sopranos, this happened with the when Ralphie was one of Richie's guys. He's expecting to be bumped up once Richie goes into witness protection. And Tony doesn't do that. Right. He puts in a different guy for his own political reasons. Because he doesn't want the preal crew to be too powerful. That didn't go over well. Now, I know that's make believe, but there but there's a lot of politics in the underworld and that can happen where guys resent being stepped over. Well, there's also, I think. I don't want to overstate this. But I know there's a sentiment on the streets of South Philly that Joey's getting the best of both worlds right now. He's not in. He's not in the trenches. He's out in Florida. He's getting a piece of what everybody does there. But he's getting that piece without the same. Skin in the game, I guess. Joey would argue, I'm sure. Hey, mother fucker, hey, mother fucker. I've got enough skin in this game for all of you guys that I put in. Look at the prison. Right. Yeah. And I put this whole thing together so I can run this thing anyway. I fucking want to put this together. Right. Right. That's who. So the reference, right? From from Scarface. Yeah. You know, I trust me. That's who. So. And then he's out in Florida. The belief is that he's doing a lot of his own things there. And there aren't. There isn't anybody that gets to sharing that. All right. Right. So, yeah, I mean. In theory, there could be resentment. But again, what I'm hearing is that. Making another analogy to Dom Grande. Dom Grande. Was was thought of incredibly highly from the time he was in his 20s. People were looking at Dom Grande and say, this guy has all the intangibles, all the X factors, all of the things that you need to be a great mob guy, to be a great mob leader. And and they groomed him. And I think with Joey B. And I just I don't know what's going on right now. But what I've heard is that everybody that's of the older generation looks at Joey B. As someone that's wise beyond his years, somebody that is in his 30s, but acts like he's been in in that world for 30 years, that he is a stickler for the rules, that he's somebody that, again, is very well connected, is connected to bosses and multiple families. I believe there there is a picture somewhere on social media of of Joey B. Visiting Vinny Beshiano in prison. And there are a number of photos of him on social media with Tommy the Monk's Asano. And in some of those photos, it's hashtag with like. Rising mob superstar or mob up and comer. So it's it's hashtag by who? Whoever's posting the social media folks. So I wish I could tell you who those people were. Yeah, but I just saw the posts and so I'm not. That's why I'm not necessarily afraid to talk about it, because it's kind of out there already. And I've written about it and haven't really gotten any blowback on it. So again, I just always want to be very clear. And Mikey and by the way, Mikey Lancelotty is another guy. He doesn't have any federal convictions. He's been arrested. But never convicted. You know, the thing with Joey, though, in Florida, again, there's precedent for that's one of the privileges that goes with lasting and being the boss. We mentioned Tony Ricardo already going out to California. Is it really from Detroit going down to Florida? And there are other examples of guys who if you're the boss and you put in your time that you have, you can enjoy this kind of role where you're insulated, where you can go semi-retired somewhere. You're still for all intent and purpose, the boss, but you've removed yourself from the day to day operations being smart. Yeah, I mean, there's it's it's I can I can see why some guys on the street might resent that. I'm just saying he's not the first, but he's not the first. The the the kind of unicorn factor here, though, with with Joe, with Joey and his group. We've talked about this quite a few times. Is this this loyalty that transcends the mob? These guys love Joey like he's a brother. And it really has nothing to do with an oath they took to the Bruno Scarfo crime crime family. It's an oath that they took to each other when they were in the sandbox, when they were six or seven years old. They're going to you're going to see the comments. People have got something about the same box. I'm just I know I'm I'm being hyperbolic. I'm just saying that these guys have been friends since elementary school, junior high school. And that means more that you'll see it's true. I mean, it's true loves the sandbox. OK, it's not the first time he's it's OK. Break him up. It's not his first time. You can break the balls. But no, but the point is well taken that that can kind of I think this is your point, correct? If I'm wrong, correct me if I'm wrong. But it can diffuse some of those. Resentments that might exist in other circumstances because they have a different bond. Yeah. And don't that's not underworld and not not organizational. And if you've studied the history of this group, this group has it hasn't been all harm harmony. Yeah. And and puppy dogs and rainbows. There's been some serious issues within this group that they worked out amongst themselves and it never the dirty laundry never really got aired, at least, you know, in federal court documents. Right. You know, you had a situation where I've written about this. I'm not afraid to talk about where Georgie and Marty wanted to kill each other when they came out of prison, because Georgie felt that Marty was taking advantage of when Georgie was in prison, but they worked it out. They actually got into a room and I heard there was an airing of the grievances, if you will. And they both got past it. And so if there was any opportunities to for these guys to turn on each other, they would have all hit. There's been there's been so many of them. Yeah. So there's there's that factor, but you know, you have a situation where you heard it in in the wiretaps that were played in this lat or that were available in this last bus that took down Stevie Mazzone and Dom Grande. Mazzone's on tape telling the new initiates, hey, man, meaning me, we shed blood for this thing. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but we shed blood for this thing. And now it's our thing. And we ain't giving it away to any suckers. Yeah, I remember that. That was kind of exactly what he said. Yeah, I remember that. Like basically, we went to war for this family. We spent almost a decade at war. Prison time. Yeah. And now, you know, now it's it's ours for the plundering and and we're taking it all. And then that was also the speech where he talked about going back into Atlantic City and planning the flag again. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. Yeah. So the it's it's it's something of note to talk about maybe some lingering animosities about how things are being run and the boss not being an absentee boss or whatever. But I I think it's just it's normal organizational gossip. Yeah. And an organizational complaints that are just, you know, probably in any office where people talk and people complain, but it's never going to reach a point of upheaval. But those personal connections can stabilize a situation. So in this case, the personal connections are there. They grew up with each other, friendly with each other in Detroit. And I'm like the analogy king today. But in Detroit, it was they're all related to each other. Yeah, that helped diffuse any time they were because they're same thing. There were tensions, guys. And there was that. But that would kind of diffuse like any kind of anything blowing up because they were related to there was a famous quote in the wiretaps from the Detroit case in 96, where I believe it was Novi Toko talking about his uncle and Jack Toko saying, yeah, in any other family, these guys would be killing each other by now. But my uncle doesn't want to go into retirement having all of his family members shooting at each other on the street. Right. Yeah, because they would go to the same birthday parties and holiday parties. So the last person I want to mention in this episode, we'll finish up in the next five, five, five, ten minutes. Damien Canalicchio. Who was a guy that I think you should keep your eye out for in the in the Philly family right now. He's recently come out of prison in the last couple of years. He was Steve Stevie Mazzone's. One of Stevie Mazzone's protege's came up through the ranks in the nineties as Stevie's bodyguard and driver. And he went to prison. I'm pretty sure I'm that same Legambi Massimino case. And did I don't know. I think it was eight years, eight, nine years. He's out now. I've heard that there were opportunities for him to become a couple. I would guess my best guess that he has become a couple. I don't have any confirmation on that. But I believe that Damien will be somebody that is playing a role in filling the Stevie Void. That he's somebody that Stevie trusts. Well, that would make that would make sense to that more traditional arrangement where one of the guys who was under you kind of bumps up. Right. And Damien is another one of these guys that. Very well liked people trust him and people are afraid of him. He's got a reputation. He's never been. Convicted or arrested in any gangland slain's. But there there is the belief by the FBI that he that he is suspected of playing a role in a couple hits back in the early 2000s that they've never been able to charge. So that's always kind of been hanging over his head. And but he he is rock solid, both, you know, figuratively. And literally, if you've seen the guy since he's come out of prison, he kind of went into prison a little, little doughy. And now he's chiseled and and looks like he put on about 30 pounds of muscle. And again, he's come out and. He has a lot of a lot of goodwill and a lot of I would I would call it, you know, capital, I guess, mob capital in in in in terms of currency with his reputation and what not. While I had a good time, this was a good episode. Yeah, just to remind everyone, please again, follow us. Subscribe and we'll see you next time. All right, Scott Burns. And we'll see you next time. All right, Scott Burns, you try to wow.