 Thank you Sandra and Judy for coming in. I know it's been a rough day and elections are tomorrow But we wanted to meet with with you folks and check in and Talk some personnel Kind of stuff, so I would make a motion that we go into the executive session to discuss personnel matters per one 3383 And we would invite Second That's exciting don't freeze take her I Saw that All right, so We'll resume regular session the board has nothing to report from executive I talked Alper nice credit phone calls, and there was no reason really for him to come tonight Nothing else nothing else in the treasure Town Hall renovation Town Hall renovation We're working on the kind of like the septic issue, so stay tuned for that right? I don't think we have anything on act 46 to update We file we filed the letter with David Kelly that the board agreed to Last meeting that's all done. Just waiting for kind of things to things that just percolating along All right I couldn't figure out Shots You know many years ago, I went to a Iola Mott select board meeting and The I think it was the chairs I remember serves me right had a cooler next to him And we accept down state officials and he said want a beer He passed up here I'll amot oh I'll amot they drink they drink beers at their select board meetings You know it's like what I don't think there's any law prohibiting us drinking on the job here No, but there's no alcohol that can be served here No, no, you bring your own beer and get drunk at slick board means I guess There's another policy to write You don't have enough Right All right, so let's get started now everybody's here. All right, thanks for coming So what's going on with the conservation commission? Well, what's this stuff? Yeah? Yeah, you know You know, you may or may not have heard that Jolie has stroke She's really doing well. She's really doing well. She's at home. She has a lot of care, but she hardly even needs the care She's still confused and still It's hard to figure stuff out, but she's doing really well She actually came you had a forewinds training this morning and we went really we learned all about rotten logs Oh my god, there's so many critters that living rotten logs you would not believe it That's Susan Sawyer. It's just amazing. You know Susan the wood grower the ecologist. Oh my god. She knows so much anyway Um, so she's doing well and drew is gone. He'll be back early January. I understand Um So in the meantime, there's been four of us Maddie resigned Maddie resigned. She just didn't have time She had to take some other jobs. She was like working all the time So so there's six all together. So there's me Larry's a vice chair Neil Julie oh and pat Yeah, this is relatively new And we just are really functioning well We've even talked about we could have more members, but we're thinking You know, we're just it's it's a great functioning group Oh, and we have Katie Right. Yes, that helps a lot. Which is amazing So Do you want to know what we're working on? Sure. Okay. Um Well, you know, there's the emerald ash borer issue and You know, we're towns are encouraged to come up with a plan and You know full road. So there's two. There's two parts to it. There's the public ash trees along the roads and if there's any on any public property and then there's private ash trees and so We're going to be working on a plan for the roadside Ash trees the ones that or the public ash trees. Is that going to be different than the other work we're doing it with? plan garden very different Yeah, although that is just an amazing organization. It's the urban and community forestry program It's it's kind of I think a joint thing between the It's the agency natural resources and it's some state and federal People as well and money. There's a lot of federal money They have So many resources their websites are just fantastic so But that's who Joanne works for and Joanne is the person who's doing the roadside vegetation assessment. So she's been She has been indicated. She's been identifying ash trees along if you look at that last map she sent But for the roads that she that we all decided she was going to evaluate she has indicated the ash trees Right, but she only she's not doing all the all the roads so So for the Public ones Neil Maker who is on the conservation commission and is our tree warden and as a forester and I Um have been meeting to Kind of figure all this out like what needs to be done. What do we need to know? What do we need to learn? Do we want somebody from that program to meet with us? They're getting workshops I mean there's workshops all the time in the state about emerald ash where I just want a november 28th, which I think I'm going to see announced some of those Right, but ultimately towns have to figure out a plan Is it our own plan so it's required? We want to know because There are different possibilities for what you want to do Do you want to inventory them? I mean neil and I think they should probably be inventory, which means You know maybe because you emerald ash board Ash trees that apparently they're almost all going to be Effected 99% and inspection Um, but they're now recommending forcers neil the state not to cut them all down right if you have on your private property Some really great big valuable ash trees cut them down have them cut sell them Use them for firewood, whatever but You know, there's always the chance that they'll be Uh, what do you call it a resistant a resistant one and also which is good in this contract, right? Yeah, but the other thing is is that they can be treated with an insecticide And apparently it's pretty successful And neil's in the process of finding out what it involves and what it costs So for instance Montpelier, which has a tree board has done an inventory of all their ash trees And they have identified ones that they feel are really important to save And they are going to be doing the town the city spending the money and they are going to be treating them And it's some kind of injection, you know, they built for a hole and then put a plug and then inject Oh, you don't have to spray a whole tree? No, it's not sprayed and it's injected and I think it's like You do it initially and then maybe every two years or three years. I can't remember You know what the cost? But apparently it's very successful and so there's several reasons to do it One is so that you want to save the ash trees that are important whatever important is but Work on those criteria And also said that there'll be ash trees left that can have new baby ash trees after The other ones are gone Like when you talk about doing this inventory We wouldn't be able to do an inventory of trees out of five properties No, we're talking about public trees and that's why I said there's two parts to this and I'm just talking about the public part and Joanne or we were just notified there's a there are grants available $500 grants I think that's do the applications are due in january and it can it's all for emerald ash or stuff And so neil and I were talking about maybe we could get a grant to help with the inventory You know, so we're we're working on that As far as the private trees are concerned on what we really need to do is have callus We need to have some more jobs in callus. We really need to educate private landowners About it about the emerald ash bore about how to identify it about what it is And about what their choices are on their on their own land Well, we shouldn't get blood and people know probably even now in public form and a few people buy firewood And yes, we are an affected area, but these things don't move that fast, but we're Buying firewood from if you buy firewood from a place that is infected you you're actually accelerating its That's true. You know, we were thinking no one thinks about that I know we've been able to extend possible how the firewood cut off their own property the higher you got to cut on their property People who have insect retreats are encouraged to cut them down haven't cut Um now when you're talking about people these trees are shot. Are they trees that you already know are infected? No So you would apparently Neil says once you know you're infected they're gone. That's gone. Really? You can't treat them with that What? Maybe because that's the problem with this pest is that you know, they lay eggs and they bore through the thing But they don't show And then you can't see them and then you know Two or three years yes, and then but every spring they you know They hatch out of the trees and then the moss fly around and they lay more eggs and then it just perpetuates it Is that right? We had that in our minutes. I think you explained it pretty well, but Neil Neil explained it at our conservation machine It was four years Yeah Saying that once it gets in It's four years and now it is dead, but in the meantime they're infecting They're going around and spreading. So you're talking about doing some at least one Workshop here in Cal. Is there a charge at least one? Yeah, we probably would do it You know, we're thinking of doing it jointly with the slope board right Probably in may you know ash trees don't leaf out. They're very late to leaf out and you know I mean professionals can identify and some people can identify ash trees in the winter, but it's a lot easier for Late people to identify the ash once the leaves are out And they don't start flying so they don't start flying anyway until later Is there a cost to have them come and do a workshop? We would do the workshop Oh the conservation team Yeah, we would do it with you because we're you know, it's You go to these workshops you learn the same thing over and over, right? I mean we did that there isn't that much to know You know, they have pictures. This is what it looks like You know, here's some suggestions on what to do Could we combine it with invasive species too? I don't know. What do you want to do about invasive species? I mean it's such a big area Just some education We'll have to see Because we do need to do that too, right? Yeah Anyway, so that's our emerald ash board plan So as I said Neil and I were working on that and the other thing that Neil and I and I say Neil and I because Neil and I've been talking about doing this Other thing for years and we finally said, okay, we're going to sit down and do this and that is tree warden staff tree warden ordinance a tree ordinance for cows So there's a statute that sets out what the requirements are or what the Right, and they were up to those They didn't update them. They had an updated proposal in the legislature. They're very very out of date. They're very vague right, um, they talk about shade trees and residential trees and They don't apply to rural areas And so And everybody who deals with stuff knows that they're aware of it. There was a proposed Rewritten statute and I don't know why I don't know what happened to it But it didn't go anywhere last year So A lot of towns and cities have tree ordinances because you decide what you want to do You know the town can decide how it wants to define the trees um that to protect or to You know, and when do you need a hearing and when does the town one does the road crew have to contact the tree warden and You know all of that stuff So, um and some some Towns they recommend or this The urban community forestry people recommend maybe having a You know a tree working group in town You know, yes We just don't have that many people who are willing to do things in town so But so that's what Neil and I are looking at all the you know, what do other It's hard to find small towns that have tree ordinances, but some of them do and there's big towns that have great ones And so we're reading them and trying to figure out what makes sense for callas and you know, and then what we'll do is Take some information or proposal to the rest of the conservation commission And then at some point we'll then bring it to you and it's important we have a public hearing Right, you know, because it's an ordinance so it's up to you It's just like the word to do it, but it's really kind of overdue I know we've been talking about it. We have been talking about it. So we finally So any of these things settle down and do it doesn't sound like it would cost anything Um, just remember when you get grants, there's a lot of work that this part of the office has to do In administration, even if it's only $500 there's still all these Steps and reporting requirements and documentation and Well, I don't know. I mean, it's it's really up to you. Would you rather we look for grants? Would you rather we come to you for money? I mean if we say, you know, we think that really the Ash trees in town should be inventory and there should be some criteria for what you're looking for So what makes an important ash tree? That's a lot of work Right. There's a lot of roads in town a lot of trees in town. We want to ask So the $500 grant so it's not that much money, but If we don't have to come up with the $500 That's one less thing. It's not a matching grant either So there's no in kind during that. No, what is the what is the grant for? Is it to get somebody to do the inventory? There's a whole list of things It's sort of like anything to do with animal value poor that you need money for and so You know, so we were Neil and I were going over it and we're saying well Some of it has to do with tree planting, but we're not there yet by any means and we thought You know, I mean an inventory maybe an inventory maybe hiring You know some professional or semi professional or somebody that You know, we can hand some criteria to and say, okay But I wonder if it makes sense to do the community meeting To get out the word about what ash animal ash borer is There might be people that are really interested in that and they come to a meeting and then you can Hook a line and sink them into volunteering Also You know, what's what's your timeline in terms of when's your budget done? I mean, when do you guys have Well, we have to have the budget graph by 20 done by the beginning of January So maybe February Yeah Because you know, I mean we were we were thinking of may because as I said the the trees are So it's the thinking that we'd inventory them in in in order to possibly treat them Because I just looked at the digger Article the cliff shared Montpelier is in matured. I think did they say 12,000 trees? Yeah And you divide 12,000 into their budgeted amount To treat those trees and they said they're going to try to treat as many as they can There works out to 625 hours a tree I'm just not sure if this town But maybe maybe maybe it's mostly labor And maybe We'd get volunteers and they can be like drilling taps. No, I agree. I'm just nothing can really be done until the spring That's it There's really nothing to do So so if we had would we have a $500 grant in place by the spring? Yeah, we would want that right if we get I think January is the day that we have it for the spring and we would have it for the spring And then the question is how far would that 500? And this is still, you know, the initial stages. I mean, you know, You know, we can all develop we will develop a list we anybody's involved a list of the criteria We'll be drawing on other towns and other things anyway other criteria. What's important, but here in callas It's going to end up. I think it's going to be location. It's going to be the most important criterion I mean, of course, you want it to be healthy. You want it, you know, but it might be that, you know We have some asheries that provide a really important canopy somewhere, you know Or we have a tree that's people go. Oh my god. It's such a beautiful tree. You know, we don't you know We don't know yet what right, you know, we're just sort of thinking about what would the criteria be It might be one tree. It might be 20. We don't know Well, it would be interesting to do that inventory. It would also be interesting to know what the grant Will pay for, you know, will it pay for Treatment no, it will not pay for treatment and it won't trade and it won't pay for cutting trees Those are the two things they say they will not pay Jen's time to speak. Well, I was wondering what grant this was was this through central romant planning? Or was this a different grant through a different agency? It's through the uh, I think it's the uh It's the urban and community forestry program The central romant regional just announced there was a Total grants for eab that's mounting up to 20,000. I don't know how much it is for the other thing that I heard where I went The state has an application that you can download onto your smartphone Which can help you identify the ash trees along the road and will develop a map That highlights the ash trees Because the important thing is to identify Municipalities need to identify Like you said the road areas because there that's our responsibility as a town And so you might want to see my understanding is that that I think that app is free because they were talking about it at a state thinking these so maybe the five hundred dollars can leverage A community event like green up day where we go out and go ahead and then have a party Yeah, pick up trash while you're doing it. Well, right That would that would be ideal when they're stretched five hundred dollars. Yeah The people did it on their apps just for your stretch of road. Yeah You could make it a joint. Yeah. Yeah, and the other point was that The importance of the plan was not only to decide Whether you Do Insecticide pesticide or whatever they call it, but if the tree dies There is a cost to Getting rid of the tree And they are calling they put in they the state organization Put in and said up to $1,500 for tree for removal because you have to remove the stump Who would do that? Yeah, that's what that that's what they said at the at the meeting that I was at Presented by the the woman from the forest area. Yeah And so that was the importance of developing a town-wide plan in order to budget From what do you do the insecticide to where there's so it sounds like we need to do some kind of a Workshop in town maybe get this person if you don't know who it is to come in addition To talk about you know, you got to do this and you got to do that kind of thing and do it all Together and maybe February is the time to do it before We get to spring. I mean they are so willing to do anything to go anywhere talk to anybody So let maybe we can work on coming up with something to do jointly. We can do like Lenny's callus Yeah, I mean the issue always is how do you get people to go out to Right why do you advertise that there's going to be snacks? It's always a challenge, but I think a lot of people are becoming aware of the ashore situation and there's Probably plenty of people on co-owners that would like to know Right what to do and how to do it kind of thing The people in the current use program, um, we got a letter in the mail that talked all about it Well and if it's something on your An app and it just makes it sound so Right, you know and getting some people who For regular people. Yeah, just a couple of hours. Right. I should do something, right? Often it's not the case. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I mean I'll be in touch with these people It'd be community people. I you know, was it near the flitney? She just left and somebody else to take I went to a thing in the town garage where Joanne was there was the Elise at 64 guy And the Samaritan person was there. I mean, they did little blurbs at this at the town garage when we had that meeting It's at the UVM extension service in brewing on barrier. Oh, I'm very much on the road. Yeah So anybody wants to go I can I'm going you're gonna go John. I'll have to I'll I'll check into it. Can I You have to sign up. It's not don't cost anything but they want to know Okay, I don't know that part I want no more what else we're doing what else are you doing? Because we got other people We're doing um, we have act 171 Which requires at some point for the town plan to be updated and include Forest habitat walks Connectivity right connect connection for us so The conservation commission is working on identifying them and They've mostly been identified by Matt in the natural resources inventory. So we met with him went over it and we met with Eric Sorensen and now Um, there's a remember, you know Monica and jens I do know jens. We have I just had a session with him. Yeah, so They're they work jens. I don't remember who they work for jens I There's too much going on. I remember who they were they were for the state some somehow they were from the state He's an a and r and Monica We're going to be meeting with Monica About sort of next steps and I've talked to jan about it and jan said Wait till we finish this Yeah, she has a name with a lot of Any vows So Monica it's work is going to work with cal. She's happy the callus Yeah, so we're going to be moving forward with that She may meet with us on our december 5th meeting. Um, and then The other thing that we're starting to work on seriously is revising the conservation fund guidelines because uh, the last few times there's been The conservation fund has been used The guidelines have not worked very well. They're really out out of date and not relevant to the way things really work So, um I think we there's a lot more we need to Ask Yeah, yeah, so what the conservation commission is doing I think we said we were going to put that on our next agenda to work on as a group Um to start going over them. Yeah and taking a look at that carefully You said And that's you know, that's the next thing the other thing is that um, there were people who felt that the process is not very It's too loosey-goosey. It's it's too it's not like you know, like what happened, you know, you want to People need to be more serious about coming to the town and saying here's our business plan You know, this is what we've done. This is what we're going to do I mean, it's just been kind of people coming saying we want money, right? We're doing something great We want your money Yeah, exactly. It's like, yeah, exactly like where's your business from? Um, so uh, Richard Maisel before the conservation commission he prepared a draft application that would have Call for a lot of information And he had criteria in there And I looked at it and I said, where are these criteria? These criteria are very good And he said I took them right out of the conservation fund guidelines I said, oh, I guess they do need to be revised So that's how that got going and um, so we're gonna work on that and that's obviously something they're yours You know, um, you got a sign you've got to agree with them, but we'll present a draft to you at some point Okay, um Okay, and then We are meeting now on the first Wednesday of the month instead of the second Tuesday Katie has taken care of it on the calendar for us um and Just for your information, we had a fabulous fall foliage walk Neil our forester took us there up on Robinson Hill Larry had arranged this because there are trails or town chests But there's also a lot of mountain bike trails people have to go for a lot of people came It was really well attended. We even had a pony And uh, it was really a great walk. Everybody was just so happy. We learned so much. It was really fun Anyway, so that's what we're doing and you want to know about the budget, right? So We don't have anything that we need money for that we know about I mean, there's all these things, you know, that are kind of up in the air about brands and this and that Except katie We know That we want to keep katie as taking our minutes and you guys you've just been paying for it If you want to put it in our budget fine, I mean, right? Well, I was going to ask katie. I hadn't yet If you can do a breakdown sort of of what you What we've spent on I submit them separately each week, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, who should I send it to? So that's all like, you know, really and what are you you're gonna what do you think 8,000 for the fund again? Yeah, I mean we'd like at least yeah, because as you know the fund is going to drop precipitously Right with our memorial hall project goes through right because You agree to total of 50,000 Well Yeah, so we've got 8,000 we'd like to build it back up if we can so we did 8,000 last year so Unless you want to ask for more for now we'll cancel in the 8,000 But we haven't talked the conservation commission hasn't talked about this this year. We will and we've got green up So Now I think it's because it's I don't know why it's Right, what is this different thing conservation commission 200 Do you guys have anything else that you It would it cost um, it cost 108 dollars whatever it was. Maybe it was some kind of membership to something or training Oh, maybe it was for does that makes them because we did Because we did the Um, the matt peters report remember. Yeah Well, yeah, this was in um In f y 18 we spent 55 In f y 19 so far we've spent 108 So I don't know what those are but I bet we had some printing in there so you guys could have Handouts and things like that printed out What that is Yeah All right anything else You guys are really I was gonna say you guys are really busy. Yeah, it's good. It's really interesting It sounds really like a way fun fun to learn stuff. It really is Except the emerald ash for it's a really depressing thing. Yeah Oh, it's horrible. It's just that we're moving toward Yeah, is there any worry that when they finish off the ash trees Get hungry and move on to another I heard that's a possibility or I've heard they just That's that I just don't know You know They move to something else or I don't know. I mean there's certainly places in the country where they've had them And and things have come back to them. Yeah, you know, well, the industries have that thing For a while Well, they still have it they still get it You won't get an elm tree that lasts more than 20 years. I don't think well the the Dartmouth green I just threw a nice there. I think I think he treated it. I think they treated those trees. Oh, yeah I just had a four-year-old elm guy It was so sad. Yeah, I've that tree when I moved there in 1987 that tree was there and it was not too young at the time And it just died in the last two years Oh, yeah Yeah, so just out there. Yeah, they're waiting So that's not good stuff now You know, so but but what we don't want to happen is what happened with the chestnuts where they cut all In pennsylvania and long in new england. They cut all the chestnuts down And now it's really important that forests and parks. I guess they have been in the community kits up to the foresters because My forests are actually one to cut all mine down in 2013 No, 2011 because of the impending EAB infection and I said, well, what if one disease resistant that could be the one that saves the species and I don't know. You know, they cut them down in the Midwest They cut them all. I know they did. I mean, what the emerald ash pours back I don't know what what it's on. I mean, maybe it's just little baby. I don't know Conservation commission, I want you to appreciate all the work they're doing and it's really important work. I will. All right. Who wants to do this? Thank you very much You need a refill stuff? I I offered Peggy if she wanted to go because she works and I do not I don't know. I don't know if she wanted to go first Hey, what are you going to retire? Ever. You'll be surprised I will be I got two full-time jobs right now. I'll think you don't have to retire. Okay. No. Come on. Come on sit up front. No, I'm sorry Okay, you want to budget stuff the only budget stuff that we have is I understand it is what we think Our secretary. How is he doing? Well, he is back to almost there He's been sent a few issues that he's going to take care of But he is back to me. I know the last one meeting I went to he was like You couldn't go Yeah, the last meeting we had You weren't there, but he's And um, so he's doing better. Yeah Back to school And I don't know how much you budgeted for him. I think it's um, and then we have We've been having our Um Meetings, you know for our committee itself Not here because every time we wanted to have it here. This is busy. Well, so we've been going over to the Um, east gals. Yes. Are they charging you? They've been there said they were going to bill you for 10 bucks You didn't use an able corner community center for free. Not until they fix that stupid lock We tried that opening that door We could not get in. Oh, I was threatening to just Something I had in my car and just pinch off the lock and Well, there was also an ending I'm having to call John and we had to come over and unlock the door and then he had What was the problem with it? It's the stupid lock. You had a friend to the number saying you can do this and Doesn't work So right now, so who's doing Right now Tim isn't submitting any bills then because he hasn't been doing any minutes, but we we've budgeted a thousand For the whole year. Yeah, okay. Yeah and then You probably want to put in $50 more for their building in east gals until you guys get the All fixed Yeah, hopefully now we use Maybe it's gonna be warm Where is that in the budget that we have here well the BRB H3 Under shall me thank you Um Okay, and he's calcium. I know it's $10 a shot I was gonna say, you know the out of that community center something for public use for free You just have to call rick winston. All right, and it's easy. He just he tells you where he is I'm kind of lucky. It's very easy I have my own dead key for east callas. I don't have to bump over anywhere else. Okay. Hey, let's tell you Okay, don't it for years. Um The other thing is you've got to do something with respect to our One member that we haven't seen for two and a half years Yes, we said to the letter basically saying thank you for your service if we haven't heard from you There's other two Yeah, he said there's a copy of it, but we don't know whether he said, okay goodbye He hasn't responded to any form of communication whether the email Telephone or written letter. He has not responded at all Yeah, so we would appreciate if you have any recommendations Everybody put their thinking caps on about another member and let us know is that you need one? Well, we Then we have some extra. Who is the vice chair in the air B? Good question Because I looked on the website when I was trying to send out notices to people to come There's like, oh, there's a vice chair You shouldn't have a vice chair. Okay Um, and we should put it up, you know closed on the website But I forget steve. Oh, and this is basically missing in missing in action We tried desperately to contact and we got no response So that's two l.as who Steve oh Yeah Well Right He's a principal in Albany Who else is anybody else right? Well, that's right now. I was in Vietnam who well well, right? Yeah, it was a case regular everybody else Yes, it goes on vacations to all the next four some other countries on the other side of the world And sometimes he's not around. I thought there was another There has to be So do you have regular meetings at the is it open to everybody? We only had meetings or meetings Monthly meetings And this year for some reason they're not putting in any applications right now for Correct The prom wait until the middle winter like they normally do They should be getting there. We don't permit stuff in because When you go to a bank to get some financing They want all that information or bingo. They don't want you to say oh, well, I've got to do this Oh, well, I'm gonna go here and get permits is that that doesn't work. No people find that out. They do So other than that we're just Waiting on some new provisions. So the zoning. Well, that's gonna rain That's it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks bag. Thanks for staying on there for so many years Well, every time I wanted to get done Everybody else got done So actually so who like who wasn't on there is Ruth and Barbara. We know they're still on there. Oh, okay Yeah, I'm focused on that one. So used to seeing them there. I didn't Okay landing commission What do you want to know? What's going on? What is your needs? Wish list Well, um, I thought first though, I'd like to share with you who's on the planning commission because I don't know Ron Shaw is The youngest both in age and in longevity being on the planning commission and he is a CPA So he's our kind of systems type of person And then there's gary who's got the history All of the history I think and so he brings along a perspective. He's also an engineer And so he's he's got a lot of that perspective Melon and king is on the board commission she's our lawyer and keeps us on track with looking at what the state regs are and that we're going to Have it accurate And john of course, um McCullough is on it and He's our mapping guru really um, but because of his Being the zoning administrator as well He brings a lot of the issues that he has with certain things with that that brings up certain things And then there's me and my background was In medical information systems where I was both in sales and in a product marketing development Uh product so I'm kind of in a process a process person I guess and kind of see the Overall forest and I also happen to see the individual trees So far we've been wobbling in the weeds of regulations Um, and it's taking on a personal level. It's going much slower than I wanted it to go, but We sit in our meetings and we reach a consensus where we all finally agree on what's kind of how it's going to be and how it's going to look Um, we've been working on the shoreland Overlay, which is it would replace what we have in shoreland. It would be a Shoreland overlay equal to almost what's in the state a few differences we had a Pretty successful meeting at adamant. Um, that was a very good meeting. That's a great job Yeah, and we, um, I want to plan for another meeting with the Number 10 nelson pond and curse pond Residents and we'll probably do that all at one. I think it's all our time can do But we want to do the same thing where we have a map We found that having a map explains a lot of things And where the village districts are so um I would say we're on our eighth revision of a draft of the shoreland We call it shrod the shoreland overlay district um And I've asked the crew we're meeting tomorrow night. I've asked them to look at it for sensibility and I've met with stephanie. We've taken into account Conservation and lakes and streams issues relative to the shrod Um, we're looking at a minor rewrite on 3.14, which is the streams what we're going to do with streams and how we're going to handle that Um, we've had a couple interesting conversations. Melanie has Interviewed a few people from a and r river area And they really believe the river border. No, that's something different yet It's it's relative to buffers around our streams um, but Their feeling is it's much more important that we also have a stormwater erosion control Or not ordinance but by law and I think We're working on zoning. Yes Stormwater and erosion control stormwater management and erosion control and in peg has Outlined to me certain areas where DRB looks at it. I mean there's like 500 areas And I think we'd like to consolidate it into one area that says All districts have to follow some kind of stormwater management erosion control for new development We have to specify it. It's under new development But the importance that we're learning is that the erosion control puts just as much sediment and phosphorus into the stream waters as does everything else So, um, we're adding probably we've got a draft of something Which we still haven't gone over yet Stephanie, but we are working on the three point Which is going to be a new addition to that And I'm hoping we'll hear back from you guys um We have gotten and our real will be reviewing and I'm I don't know it'll probably be seen anywhere before we get to that The state has issued a new river quarter Area, so we're probably going to be writing Taking out our current flood Hazard zone and we're going to probably write a whole new article Which will combine The flood hazard and river quarter and we being river quarter is important because then we get our extra 5% in evad And that would be to update the zoning rights. Yes, all of this is zoning regulation update And you're planning on doing it all together. Yes, I'm not gonna You know to do things piecemeal. I'm just going to try to get it all done It's and it's but charland. You're going to separate. No It's all going to be listed under water quality issues And I I mean we've got it written. It's a matter of just getting through slogging through the detail So Finally In terms of a budget We only have 800 bucks in our operation budget Um We don't spend a whole lot. Some of us go to meetings. I don't even know if we Put in that we we go to the meetings in Yeah, but I don't think we remember even Bring it in for reimbursement. Um When we mail out we're going to have to mail out to our Our neighboring towns All of the new regs. We have to send this stuff to accd and we have to send this stuff to The regional planning commission. So there will be mailing expenses. Um, you have to do our Oh, yeah, you have to do it. There's a whole Bylaw adoption process. Yeah, there's nobody on the planning commission We need to take ownership of I thought the administrative assistant turned we're going to do that in times past But you're telling me that now that we're all going to be in control of that process Well, I think we need to work on it together, but there really isn't anybody right now That would probably be my role is to help you with work on that. Um, here's because we don't have any Well, when the time comes right when you and I can talk about Which is which is important because You're getting if your process isn't right, right? Um, and we've had a problem before. Yes. So So I'm not going to have that happen again. No, that's what I'm saying. We're going to want to make sure we manage that well I would like to find Jim you and I talked about at some point and not right now, but There's not going to be any Resuming changes for this town being correct. Correct And we talked at some point about wouldn't it be wonderful? wish list To hire somebody to look at I was just getting to that Okay, the town plan thing. Yeah What I wanted to do was find someone who will type up The regulations in a way that um Well, we have people who have done it before but it is a hard chore And I don't know time-wise Whether that person will be wanting to do that and we'd like to do hyperlinks whereby when you're reading um When you're reading the bylaw And we say you want we want you to we want the owner to go to the shoreland regs item appendix d We hit a click Click it and it would come up so that the people can see it um There's I mean somebody on the police commission was doing that. Yes, and I I think the process I think it's a little more difficult for for him to do now And so I would like to eventually have that be offloaded I don't know what the cost would be but I'd like to at least put a couple hundred dollars Extra into the budget for that purpose now There's another thing that we have always wanted to do that we haven't gotten to but It's it's getting an online um Building permit getting all the permits online and doing the same kind of thing that says as they're filling in a permit to do There whatever their new shed or their building or whatever It clicks and goes to our interactive map. They can find who they're adjoining Neighbors and abiding neighbors are they address those are there the parcel numbers are there um What resident what zoning districts are they we've had it discussed we've discussed it, but again, it's that hyperlink It's that ability to have that computer techno Well the the permit would be more I'm sure to do I would think is doing if you're talking about you're talking about Zoning or you talk about planning They have somebody type it out and put in hyperlink That's the zoning right because I'm just planning how many pages is that It's gonna be 120 See I think that's gonna cost more than a couple hundred dollars. I think well I don't know. Oh, okay Don't ask for 2000. I want 2000 in my operational budget. I don't know. I I have no clue. No, I don't either I'm just saying I can't imagine somebody typing all up in 120 pages for 200 dollars I'm putting in hyperlinks. Yeah, hyperlinks that part's not hard. No, it's not hard But piping up 120 pages of that is a lot of work. That's okay. Okay. What do you think? None of it is electronic right now Oh, yeah, we're all on electronic. I mean We gave you a whole word document. We have it on thumb drive and whatever so we'd go to a thumb drive somebody could Could take what we have and it's reformatting. It's not retyping Oh, I used to do it. It's it's reformatting. What they what the planning commission does is they propose Changes to the zoning. They give it to the select board the select board owns it So when I was the recording secretary one, you have 800 so I did it But 800 still In the budget. Is that something you want to work on Katie? I'd love to Um, okay, could you work could you and jam connect? Okay, yeah, that'd be great Yeah That piece is done So operationally that's that's about where we are And what we're doing now in terms of you're right It by the time we have our hearing Which I don't think will be Until it would be late next year Even if we you know, I I would expect that that this gets voted on I don't know if you have a special election in early 2020 and March of 2020. I don't know I mean, I don't you know because we've got our timeline in terms of we have our hearing and then it's Unless you're talking calendar year 2020 not just the years. Yes. I'm talking calendar year 2020 And that would be my guess just because of we're slow. We're we're very careful and cautious It doesn't go as fast as I want it to and I've had to really step back and take a deep breath and say its Wait, so it is. I mean it is a way to stop some things just go at us in the other place and there's just no way around it Unfortunately, and then there's the awareness that we have had The there will be a town plan amendment eventually You don't we don't have to see 2016 and eight we don't have to really do anything until 2024 2020 2016 and right 2024, but I mean you can't do something so no no in order to get Deference whatever the word is, you know energy The substantial deference We've had Eric at the regional plan. It's done a very good job of drafting What would be good Taking our existing plan and he believes that we don't need a separate energy We can use what we have and amend what we have We just have to do a couple little things And and that essentially it wouldn't be A whole lot of work, but at the time that we do that that's when we have to do forest integrity um, and so It I I you know we just our bandwidth there's five of us and that's all we We can't do two things at once so it's going to come after all this and um and I worry because I think there are some people that are getting we're all getting a little tired Um And um, and I think uh, I'm worried that ron may not want to stay on and so we need to have a group of people For some reason people don't like the idea of planning and I think part of it is It's a little slow We we we are in the leads of language of writing regulations and a lot of people they don't really want regulations They don't want land use regularly right and there's a lot of resistance to it Without realizing that planning actually Is more than that and we have been so in the weeds of writing ordinances. We are not planning In the strict sense of the word and I think that's to the detriment of callous but The history of this planning commission is one that has never done that Right, I mean it's always kind of playing catch up and right all that So i'm here right now. This is just jan olson. Yeah, I represent planning but But these are just some of my wild ideas of what could be planned if we were planning for For what does callous want to be like? in In the case of sustainability. I really dislike Central Vermont regional and all of the planning that the state does and they talk about economic growth. Well, hello Where are we going to grow in this area? We we have five villages that compete for everything There's no simple core to what is callous And so how do you do that and we have three village centers, right? designated designated village centers and none of them have None of them what Another to come another to come which village? They're already a village designated Yeah, I heard about that too and I know they want to do that with these callous And I like you know what I'm not sure exactly what that means And and we have the three designated village centers None of them have ever The people that are there and I don't know if planning is supposed to help with this None of them have asked for grants if you're going to do a A cluster development if you're going to do A development within that which is what the designated village centers are for That's where you do it make a corner adamant and east callous Well east callous were limited Right and we heard a clg grant Once it gets put on this register and all that stuff It opens up the doors to get additional grants. I think Which could work to do what you're talking about I don't know about that. I don't know what the historical grants are And I don't know anything else about any of the other grants Especially when there's better connections grant and there's all these other grants that are there so I'm just saying that there's a lot of things in terms of planning Where do you want economic growth if you want such a word I like to think about it as economic sustainability and basically Our sustainability is in our agricultural our forest and Along that line and I think we have to recognize The little town of warring. We said in their town plan We can't meet the economic growth the the housing because basically the only way we can get improved economic revenue Is if we get more people involved and we get more people in here You mean more people to live? Yeah, and I don't know exactly where that's going to be Unless you want and if you want to cluster it And not have a lot of you know, three acre lots along the line Then you you you've got to develop the infrastructure So so um So what happens you put a statement like that and like orange did what happened? The plan got accepted I mean, it's a matter of if you Label out what it is you can and cannot do Right, so they don't have to put it in there right, but you know our town plan is is what it is So right now so we have to live with it. So um in looking at all of this, uh, I guess I kind of like Well, I would like to have um A long term planning budget Where you have a conservation fund and you put in a certain amount of money each year I would like planning to have the same. I think that when we I was looking at the state accd And the reason for this is when you go for grants and you have to have a 20 share Where is that money coming from? What would it be called? Running term planning grant, I guess. I don't know a lot for for grants Not grant. You said Fine, it's like a like a conservation fund You have a generalized grant fund too You guys need money one year and then you guys need money in the next year whatever we could have I mean, it could be a joint thing. Whereas let's say that conservation comes up with an eab An elm ash for plan There's going to have to maybe be some budgets for that. Is it conservation or is it going to if there's planning? I mean, so I guess what I'm asking is saying I think there should be A fund that will be there for long range for long range planning and for the ability to match grants If we ever get a planning Does that Long-range planning fund Grant match fund There's a big difference between whether we call it a grant fund or we call it A fund like conservation commission fund is just a fund that the town controls the first strings on Grants require are are all together different Some are 20% 20% in kind match fund It's not a great finish what I'm saying Okay, so I think you got a lot. I think you might be better off if we had a fund set up like we do with conservation There's a certain amount of money gets put into Does it mean you can't still then apply for a grant? Right, in other words the criteria for the use of that money would be for planning the ability to do for for The contributory faction of the grant right part of the guidelines could be To match grants or Right or something like that. So I think you get more bang for the buck by doing it as a fund Where you get so much money put in in here like you do for the conservation My my plan. I mean after reading that I was out on the state plan Accd has their big planning manual which is new. It's a nice little manual for planning Um And and actually it's one of the recommendations they have for municipal plan planning commissions that they have a special grant For that kind of purpose. So I thought well, okay, I'll come here and ask for $5,000 for that for this first year For the fund I'm not going to forget it But I understand that but you don't do anything unless you ask right and that's why I said everybody come What's your wish list? What do you want? You know, we can't we don't want the budget to go up Significantly, but there are certain things that you have to do as a town to keep town government running So well that fund should make us money right in the end. I mean that fund should be a percentage of a larger amount, right? Well, the sum total revenues in that fund would be a percentage of a larger amount It's going to leverage Right. Yeah, she's got all the words today leverage. That's the right, right. Um, thank you It would include things like if we keep working on the speed radar signs, right? Okay, and the what? Oh jenn and I are working on a project for you. Yeah, and I but I think the speed rate or something The speed rate our signs for this callus And so what we can do to get that out of it I've started with um, we're we're seeing if we make conditions. I still haven't heard from me Yeah, and that's like a maze and getting truly getting cross Right, but their cost that I shared with you is is I don't know who paid for that whether that was a grant Right, whether we'll see the rpc right now Well, I've already reached out to Dan and Dan gave me the phone gave me the information to talk to this Amy Gamble And then Woodbury did it. So jenn and I are working on it when we have something concrete. We'll bring it Yeah, or the time we went The skip was the skip was involved He was the honcho and he sent me all of he sent me copies of all of a lot of their stuff and their rails And what they found and they have to Why do they have to set up these counter things which they already did when we had to remember the erc thing and These callus cvrpc came and set up the counter. So we've already got that information. I'm hoping it'll last We may have to do it again. No, and that's what I'm wondering. I mean, we haven't heard back from so But that planning that planning fund right Would possibly even be applied to this right because you're you're looking at also gives you leverage to apply for other things To say look, we can make our match We can use the money out of this fund And I guess the last thing Or to mention is I I look I you know The people that are now currently on your planning commission may no longer be there after three two or three or four years Right. I can't remember at some point. We're probably going to have to look at And I think position Yeah, a professional. I don't know Well, it's getting harder and harder to find what there is and what the cost is and I don't know what's involved But the other thing is if there's no planning commission in a town and you remain a member The cv of the of the regional planning commission by default the regional commission becomes your planning commission to the municipality And I don't know if they are they just said Hopefully we won't get there but I just think it's it's something that I think the select board should be aware of I'm I'm a little concerned when we get down if we if we lose Ron We'll be down to four graph find five Right. It's hard to find people. It really really is. What are the what are the in that table of conflicts? What because it are what other boards Conflict of planning such a campaign on both I don't think anything I'd have to look at that sharp. So you can be it could be for example on d rb Right. Yeah, I'm an alternate I still think that's Not quite right, but that's okay The select board can be on the planning commission, right? It's not that was not a conflict for me to be on d rb Would be what I asked a broad question. Right. Yeah. I see anything that we do If you want if you were filing something and there was a conflict with whatever the d rb decided It goes to the select board. She can't talk. She can't she has to recuse herself. Right. Oh, she's on the design Well, it's gonna go to environmental board or something like that. Yeah, but you would still Right the way that I think lct as a statute has defined it at this point It's not a conflict and I only signed up because you were always running Low on members well, it's been a while hasn't been since there's been like front porch form recruitment Yeah, I mean it's a time maybe again to bring this up. It's usually a good time to do it around town meeting Right, that's when people have town on I mean I haven't been out on front porch form three or four times. Yeah Only one response Or two and and I invited them to come but they never ever came to the meeting I mean the idea would be come sit with us for several months and then make your decisions It means what Paul rose did, right? Right. Um, and I think to answer your question. The only thing I know for sure Listers cannot be on the select board Listers on the planning Yeah, there's some other I don't think it's zoning ministry to be in the d rb because our right field such as right It's our apartment. So I mean, I don't think we need to get into all that tonight, but but that's that's where I We're here you can Hear what this is why a lot of folks to come so we can have these discussions night. Actually it worked out really well to have the three Groups here at the same time. So yeah, quite an ultimate plan of getting everybody here was Well worth it. I have a question just thinking about stuff like that as jan was talking Um, and it's just a minor thing, but it's likely we will have printing costs And in the past we've just come either come to you and said We have these printing costs. Would you cover them when they were I think the natural resources inventory we took that money out of the conservation fund because it did meet the criteria But we always hate spending money from the conservation fund for things like that Just because the conservation fund is needed for conserving land But so I don't know how you want to handle that Call an operational budget for the printing Right. No, I mean that should we have that or should we just come to you? Well, it's usually relatively minor We just like for planning commission. We just call it planning commission expenses. We would just call it the same thing If you don't use it, you roll it over, right? Well, no, you usually get sucked up by it Because right now you have conservation commission the 200 dollars to me that's what That is planning commission expenses printing because we did have to pay for printing for that Really great report that Matt did. Yeah, that was and that was too different. Right. So that's to me. That's what that's for Well, I'm just wondering if it should be more. I don't know. I don't know. I have no idea So any other questions? No, you guys and thank all of the planning commission people I'll get in touch with you as we get closer to meeting But I can send you what we've done so far and maybe if you look if you look at them On the town web page that all of the Sony manager When we issue SEM it has to be re-typed on that one so that everybody can see the changes Which makes it awful to read. So then I always want to do a clean copy which makes it easier to read That's really wonderful at this time So if she's wanting to stop being helped, yeah, that would be great It charges us a good price Oh, we have to use babysit for her kids, right? But this is all stuff you can do Yes, yes Thank you ladies for coming. We really appreciate it all good work. Everybody is so dedicated for your support. Thank you Yeah, good to see you all Oh, yeah, our environment You have a question we've got with guys to a re-enactment hall Don't ask me what's the matter with the other group, but we've been ready to roll for a month and a half They're just sitting there. I was told if they were going to have something done by end of October Well, number one they didn't there was conditions. Yes, and I assume that they didn't meet the money condition I heard that they didn't need the money to do well I don't think everybody said I would cough up, but it was supposed to be X amount of dollars in the bank And the other thing I don't know what's going on So we appreciate your working with the town on You know, well Well, can I well, they're still here. Let me give you some other ideas that I think the town needs to be thinking about I mean it's it's part of planning and yes, it's way out I'd eventually like to see the town by The east callus recreational field and make it into a town park or whatever you want to call it. I don't know And that field and there's that little and there's pump No, I'm just saying the future you don't know until you offer you have to check the family But the family and that particular when I was getting Oh, right. Yeah, and and then that little green across the store from store. I mean, there's right Or even the post office and we if it becomes the town building We don't have to follow through and get a rent for it all. I mean, whatever, you know, okay That's one of the second idea There are a lot of air bnbs in this town. There are a lot of people that rent Weekly and we have guests using all of our facilities. I would like to think about a local option Women board tax that gets either 0.5 of 1 percent of the women board tax and bringing in as revenue to this town Now this is For the planning fund So this would only be for the air bnbs There's air bnbs. No, it would be like for peg tassie who comes out I mean you look at front porch and all of these ads for people that are for weekly ads during the summer time And I mean I we would have to find an inventory of all those those businesses that do Vet and breakfast and that kind of thing, but they have to follow. I think this is what I've heard they have to follow the room and board Taxes of the state meals 15 or whatever percent it is If my failure can add a local option tax that adds to it for their city Calus could have one it can be minor I think it needs to be blessed by the legislature. Yeah, it does but you have to propose it Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I'm just thinking of it. There's a way of revenue for the city So that could cause some You can turn that off at the planning meeting with somebody say that Yeah, right. So anyway, so that's why some of my way out of the things Oh, it's good. Oh good stuff. Yeah, consider everything. Okay. You really do watch out. Thank you. Now I'm gonna walk out All right, thank you Whoa, okay Well, that was good It was great timing to have the three. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, having them all come in together Yep, because they all kind of work off each other kind of thing. Um Okay, any thoughts or anything from that discussion I mean, I think I've made some notes. You made notes. You've got good minutes as always so that we may want to Play around with some budget line items add some items, you know, we we can do anything we want in the planning of this budget Then when reality hits then you go in with the red pen and you make the cuts See we're gonna have to yeah, but um, you know, there's no harm in initially putting Things in some new line items, whatever and see what we come up with And then prioritize and then that allows us to prioritize rather than doing it. Yeah and across the board I'm gonna finish the sentence. Thank you So I can work with Sandra to add some line items if you guys are Want to do that and she can do them in like red Which is what she's done with some of these other line items independent audit Um Just so we highlight them based on these discussions Because eventually we're gonna have to have Sandra come in maybe two meetings in a row and meet with the board Come up with all of these proposed figures for FY 20 What's the bottom line? And we're gonna have to do the same thing with the highway. This is what we've done typically And you put in all the items that wouldn't it be great wouldn't it be wonderful? Yeah, and then you see the bottom line and you say, oh no We need to make some adjustments. Wouldn't this be wonderful? But obviously we always try to keep The town's budget from going up very much at that all And health insurance costs are going to be going up Sharon's favorite subject. Well, and we haven't heard anybody say they need less No, and you won't probably no we won't so all right So should we delve into um The credit card policy, I really would like to get that one done because we're already using a credit card And we went through it Um a couple not last meeting but meeting four You guys want to throw it as a group that I said that was when I couldn't be here right through it before right so we made some I don't think we could That page looks really to me like it's not part of the policy Right. I think that was the thing if you look at the top, what does it say? I think I put that in there so that it's background information. Right. Just make sure when we finalize we make it out, right? So if we can go who's are you running the show? There we go. There we go Can you if you can make the changes all just So I spoke with Denise about this policy And you know, this is what is this all about this is all about making sure that We don't filter part of it out of money. So the $5,000 limit prevents that And it's also about to my mind embezzlement and There have been some cases around the state Where there have been people that have embezzled town and and Electric company funds And I know I believe at least one of those instances involved somebody either Taking out another card, you know something comes in the mail here You can get a credit card at the $20,000 limit and a town official An electric company official fills it out And also there's another credit card that the select board Whatever board does you know about That's easy to do. So I mean It almost seems that there needs to be the language in here that Maybe it's kind of in the theme there that no other cards ever no matter what comes in Those staff are allowed to take out cards or augment limits I think I think it's in there, but I I don't have a problem with the gummies at all. You know, you say it one way and then you say it say it Any many ways many many ways all get into the same concept because it is it absolutely says Two cards on one account That's I'm pretty sure there shall be no others Right. So so let's leave us three other ways to say that because I agree the time The time to be over is now because it was an issue. It's not personal. There's no But how do you get banks to I mean if we have a credit if any town has credit card policy And the employees don't follow it Because the bank sends them a Well far to send you something in the mail you fill it out But can that does kind of will a bank accept a credit card application? Do they know not to accept a credit card application without maybe select board approval? Who knows what it's really about is forgery Is being is being Really clear and really tight as to the town's policies so that There's no mistake. There's no You know confused around the employees part. No, I get that piece of it. I just wonder how you educate All these credit card companies not to you can't And they give cards for 16 year olds True And jobs Right. I mean they send them out all the time. We all know that once there's a big We probably get them now for all I know All right, so here we are we got that I think we're all in agreement about you can never say it too many times So This is so we're going to take a stab here or we're going to credit card holders and limits Does that say enough or do you want to see? This is credit cards. I just wanted to be one credit card only one credit card may be issued to the town No other there can't be secondary or well the issue John though if you go back to The outline we got from Sandra is that it has to be issued in somebody And so we did it this way all based on what Sandra told us, but Um The town so the town clerk will have one in town first name town. Treasure will have a treasure's name And then literally they were the only two people authorized to use it. If we narrow that down to one No, I'm not one. That's one card one one one two to two people one account one account, right? Right, right. It's one household two people. Yeah, so that's what I'm saying the same thing. Yeah, and it says that two cards somewhere it did say Single account I'm pretty sure it said that so let's we can just make a note and make sure we see that as we go through Well, where would it say? Well, there's other Total that works total credit one one five right? Or you can do a minute a word circle, but but let's I'm gonna make that I I maybe I'm making it up, but I feel like it was in there somewhere Well further on Katie was doing a word search, but I'm not saying it's single it might say It might be applied through some other Okay, so then we make word out rises to credit cards issued on a single account for the talent house Where is that? No, I'm saying that. Yeah, sure. We can do that somewhere else. It's somewhere else as well. Yeah um credit card use On a single account, all right, they're pretty good with credit card card holders and stuff credit card use It's not in their place, right? Like for instance, we Picked out the the staff picked out a phone system and you need to order it online and use a credit card So it works out. This is you know, that's exactly what it's for And cliff and I are aware of it because you have a meeting with the staff You guys are aware of the new telephone system. We've talked about it All right credit card use everybody go with that. Well, hang on There's one thing that that I wanted to talk about on this one Because the two people who are authorized are the town clerk and the town treasurer The only we have no authority over the town clerk. And so that's where I was thinking that public disclosure This use is important. Where are you at the bottom of the credit card use section? A purchaser Employees may be subject to disciplinary action That doesn't up to and including dismissal from this use, but we don't have the authority to dismiss a county It's actually says employees Well, and we can't dismiss there's a clerk an employee. No, she's an officer. No, she's not she's elected to like that She's an officer. So that's where public disclosure is the only tool we have and obviously we would use that Staringly but to have that tool it's I've seen until we have to talk about but why would we I guess I'm not sure why we're gonna put it in writing Because that's a given right? Well, we put we put employees in writing So the disciplinary action. So how do we get out of an official? Or how about authorized users? Maybe yeah, that's a good idea Well, they can't be disciplined we can we can publicly disclose That's not disciplined There's no the only discipline there is for somebody Who's elected that misuses it is legal action Right or not being reelected that's well, but that's where public disclosure is important But why would we not just saying up and including dismissal or legal action It just depends on whether you think that public disclosure is encompassing that or not To me out to be public disclosure is different, right? I'm taking legal action. I agree You know, I think that's it's a decision of the select board whether to disclose or not And I know I know it's it's what is laying out the options That's really obvious is But I think I think I think the select board has that authority independent You know, it's we would do that with any public official So I don't know if we need to put in this is That's the question is whether we would feel if the time came again It's really what are we going to feel like we can do when the time comes if we put it in here now before it's an issue Then we'll be clear with ourselves. We can do it Once it becomes an issue all these things feel a lot more they all get All gets very uncomfortable What can we just say any this Where it says employees can say any misuse may be subject to disciplinary or legal action Well, that's not disclosure is not legal action I don't I'm not even talking I'm not talking about that Oh, okay Oh, so you just want so just adding So taking out employees because we've got a broader group of people, right? So any misuse Maybe some disciplinary or legal action up to and including this missile Or and or and or public disclosure I think it's I think it's discipline up to include this missile or other legal action And you move we look or and or And or just not anything to get you move legal action Same So disciplinary belongs Can go up to this missile and then legal action can go with Disclosure Yeah, or or you know legal action could be with Yes Legal action is separate from Discipline so I would so so you put you put up to include this missile or Other legal action as may be determined appropriate or something Or are the legal action? We don't need more after that. Yeah, okay, but we do have to do that But I think we still want to Including public disclosure of the misuse and possible termination I get that it's difficult. I think if we have an embezzlement case I think whether we disclose it or not it's going to be what is going to be the least of our issues in terms of pain and Well, that's going to be What to do in that case anyway, you know, we got a $5,000 credit card. I mean, that's If they if someone's battled $5,000, that's that's usually not what it's Becomes a big but it's it's tens of thousands if not millions of dollars that are in vessel And that's and that there'll be probably a component of the most larger thing and And that will all be disclosed A I think we can't envision the scenario. We're going to have a scenario and we're going to sit here and sometimes in the next three years And say well, we don't think for this one That happens all the time. There's no harm in putting it. There's no harm in putting it in It's a reminder. I think I think there's no harm in putting it in Craft the line What would disclosure period Right Although we didn't this disciplinary action. We better make sure we still like that sound, right? I mean because disciplinary action Is Possibly disciplinary action that includes termination, right? Yeah Well, now to include I think you have to put that in there Okay, so any misuse maybe subject disciplinary action Up to and including this missile. There you go or other legal action for misuse Of a credit card including public disclosure. I think there's too many We have misuse twice. We have too many twice. Yeah, we have too many misuses and we're We're misusing the word including We're misusing the misuse Well, we got two separate thoughts. We're talking about an employee We're talking about public officials. So maybe you want to break it out. So we have an employee statement Employees will be subject to disciplinary action and possible legal further legal action period public officials You know misusing the credit card Maybe subject to legal action and public disclosure. I think it's two separate concepts. We try not Push two different types of individuals together and they're fairly separate Well, they are not because they're both You both positions have a card No, no, but this is about the action we take and the actions are differentiated by because of the person's I think we're going to govern one's an employee and one's elected official, but I think we were trying to make it so that I know but you can't do that. It's like saying having an employee policy. Oh, and if the governor embezzles We're gonna, you know, it's like Really the clerk is like the governor. It's it's it's a it's a it's a public office. It's totally different than employee We can say any misuse may be subject to public may it's may maybe subject to public disclosure Or I don't like it yet Okay, we've got the word may It's right there. Okay. Maybe subject to public disclosure or disciplinary action up to including dismissal or other Action. Okay. Yeah. Here. Yeah. Do it one misuse one. Yep, that works Yep, I think that's probably the biggest Piece of this policy is this clause. That's what we're getting at right. That's what this is all about Okay payments and fees So we're taking out that we um, prohibit any fees and we're leaving a little tiny wiggle, right And then but if it gets crazy Right, we don't know what the way the economy's going one day credit cards to be very expensive now, right Security Right Well, and the reason I think it's a security location in the vault is because the vault has so many people going in and out doing Different things that they need to be hidden But do we have a lock box on that ball? A lock box Yeah, it's like it's like you own a bank vault, right they have luck you have your Those boxes Oh, I don't you know, you know, you got key to your own box and they're safety deposit box. It's like having that Yeah, that's not something we have to write in here. All right. Yeah, I think I can't think of anything else. It could be in that security pair rewards influence I think we did that Do we go back Separation prior to separation from the town The card holder will surrender the credit card to the select board or Um, what is the word I'm looking for our other authorized Representative as determined by the board or something like that because if somebody leaves for the clerk or treasure It's going to be in the ball or the clerk or treasure Ball Right, but we need to somehow take that person's name off that credit card right or clerk or treasure because they're the only ones that Authorities to hold themselves Right unless they both I guess maybe we just leave it select board not make it complicated. Okay. It should be in the ball, right? We shred it All right, so do we want to Accept the changes and look at this next meeting or are you ready? Just do it. Okay Who is running the controls Are you playing Who's lying there's playing Is he playing? Is he playing? Maybe we could just ask katie to read it over to make sure we don't have extra words and typos No, katie katie. We leave typos in Approve it tonight. Don't just sign it next time. Absolutely. So we don't have to take any time on it Subjective and miscarriage changes So well, yeah, why don't you put a clean copy in the in the meeting folder for next week Tonight we can authorize or approve this Depending review of the final draft or something And then we could sign it next meeting Well, we can just wait till next meeting and approve it and sign it Either way, it's not getting signed tonight, right? Right. I would be satisfied if katie said I found one type where we had to The word was up here two twice in a row That's administrative change, right? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm asking. Yeah Unless you find something bigger than that. But how do you still tell us? That's what I do too. I know it drives me crazy. Now that we need policy do not interrupt an east policy I turn what interrupts you guys Um, I know you wanted to sign it tonight or you want to sign it next week. That's my question That's would be my suggestion that we sign it next week After katie does the final review All right Um, I have a lot of updates. We've got the phone system picked out Does sander ever get that order to work? I didn't get the chance to ask her about what the follow-up was Was some sort of she placed the order a t&g said that they need to Do some secondary level of authorization before the order is fully processed and that involved Contact you heard the email And uh, I don't know if there was a security question involved or what any rate yes, we ordered it and I'm just waiting for her to confirm when the estimated delivery is So we can We're talking about november 9th at this point. I doubt that it arrives over the night Yeah, today's perfect. Yeah, yeah, that's right. She ordered it thursday Um, the soonest she would have been able to confirm back to them. I'm assuming would have been monday today, which is crazy So I doubt that we see it by the night If we do, you know, I'll be myself available. Okay, and we're meeting with andy Right now clif and I are meeting with andy felice to talk. He's the one currently that's getting the $50 a month to do Come in and change the light bulb, you know, why doesn't that window shut kind of thing? And we've had, you know issues ongoing issues with more involved maintenance like, um Maintaining the water filter here Um fire extinguisher checking shop and doing some just some various different Duties that need to happen that really I'm happening right now and Cliff and I are going to meet with andy on friday to kind of go over this list That I found from two years ago um See, you know, he's interested and When the town hall gets renovated the list will get bigger because we're going to need somebody to do that too So anyway, stay tuned. We'll see what he comes up with see what Monetary compensation he might be need of Um right now with 50 bucks a month is pretty darn cheap. That's Does he work or he has a Doesn't he have a construction? He's a custom builder Custom like house builder or cabinets or he does additions renovations Everything okay, you can build close to the beam Wow Well, and john McCullough is got it on his radar And this is another whole subject that will Get john to come in when at some point in the talk to the office staff, but just so it's on your radar We need to make some changes configurations inside the building Cassandra when she's concentrating on financial stuff It is so loud in here and there's people going in and out of the The vault and the phone is ringing. She needs at some point or somewhere And she's concentrating on figures to not get interrupted not have it She can put on these headphones that are coming with the phone system So that she doesn't make errors So at some point we're going to need to talk about How we want to make some changes in the side here there is some money That we had been putting aside in the town office town hall reserve fund Which we've split into two Two different funds town office town hall So there is some money If they want to make some changes in the interior So is it minor changes like just I'm not exactly sure they're talking about maybe taking up these countertops putting in A space over there for the listers Um putting in a Putting a kiosk over there for the public to have access to a computer There was somebody mentioned and I can't remember who it was was John McCullough taking This thing down here when this office was originally proposed People didn't unfortunately think about the long term. They were thinking one person because it was Eva You know, they didn't think about the long term then we ended up then we had two people And then it morphed into three And then when Jonathan was here it was four So Right and the other day the listers were here for our day long meeting with Somebody and they had maps all over the place that are going in and out of the vault and It's crazy. And this is why I've been beating the drum for two years Why I think we need a town office over there. I I don't You know, I I still I think you're gonna have to move the vault Well, no, I mean the clerks here and I understand there's some Right, but if people need a quiet place to work, that's the place and If it's work they can do there All right Well, the treasurer can do work there and if we have everything set up We have the wi-fi. We have a computer. We have the same access to servers or whatever You know, I just I really want to underline that At every opportunity because I don't want that to be play land over there And then when the town officials here are feeling cramped or overwhelmed by the noise and activity here They're feeling guilty because they're displacing, you know act three of the practice session No, no, no, it's very clear. I want that to be the town. I really think I think that's been very clear, right? Well, I I really think it should be the town office You know a town office yet. Well, I mean that's Well, I think it's an old it's been seen that being seen as are understood as an overflow And I see it as Being the town office. I think it was when we talk with the office like this is like this is the town office space That people will on occasion have meetings that are not town related right and get permission I think that should be considered as The treasurer needs access to the vault when they're collecting checks I mean So, I mean, I think we need to have further discussion with the office staff to see what they need Because the vault is important to every position in this office, including the listers right So if you have it so that the charger is working over there part time and working over here part time That might create more and efficient. Well, we can help. Well, for instance, we can have Duplicates for listers. So we have a listers records over there. Well, if everything's computerized You should access or it's all computerized. Right. I don't see why the listers necessarily have to be here They don't need anything associated with the vault. I understand they do they need to have access to all the lister cards Right all the way in all the land records Right. Well, then they can walk across A lot of towns the lister cards are not in the vault Well, and here's the other piece to this is judy's asking for money in the budget to put everything on cots So that everything can be done Via computer it's a big expense initially But it would get to the point that you're making that people could be stationed over there either way There's an expense. I just would hate to see this thing all torn up for this Six month triage and then once you get that space everyone's like wow I can see all these opportunities because once it's done People are going to walk right us We're going to walk in there and say wow. There's a lot of Unutilized space here. I remember years ago. Right Donna was talking about putting file cabinets over there, right? So I I just think we keep forgetting about that in an In an official way. Well, I think the fact that we're talking about doing a renovation on this while we're renovating over there I think we I think that should be a last resort. Well, I think that the time there's no timeline I'm just bringing these issues up to you guys ahead of time. Do you know what's going on? Yeah, and so that we address the staff and say look, you know It's not in the budget right this minute or something. I just I think it's just I don't want to push things under the rug Um, I agree that I think that that Is what we said that that was going to be overflow office space or Additional office space. So we have to keep that in mind, but there are Certain things you just can't do come over there But if we digitize all the land records that would solve a huge problem. He could do stuff from home You know, right instead of even coming to the office according to Judy is you can get on the cots and you probably know that answer whether you can Can you as an attorney get into cots and Review land records if you're doing title searches and things like that. I don't think so Well, there are there are electronic systems that some towns have Uploaded to not coming my pillars using it for example is the one I used That you can access the cots document that you can access remotely, right? I know cots, but I've only I've used cots when I'm in the office And it's a different thing to to be able to access An electronic system remotely. What does cut stand for? I don't remember something. I don't know but there's a document Judy got an estimate and she's put it a request in the budget for this so we'll have to review this further and have for the discussion But um Yeah, it's like 21 pages. I gotta I asked you to Online index books what this called Online index books cut systems. I see. Yeah And I haven't had a chance to look at it because she just barely sounds it. So is that what this is? Digitization of index cards. That's it 20 more thousand five hundred. Yep. Yep. And is it in here where her proposal is for how far back she's gonna go? Well, this would be to do everything And it also helps that there's a fire Everything was digitized, but you also because it's all digitized doesn't mean it's something can happen to it So you would still keep the hard copies But this would mean that somebody could work over there, right? So that sounds like a lot of money for a service, but what does that service get you? And this is like the for instance would cost 20 20,000 to renovate this Make shift away And then we're still have the limitations of the small office We have that big space over there. So we should look at when we spend on these kinds of things Will it free up? Save us money in the in the greater scheme. My question is Would if we had this would the listeners be able to work over there? Or would they still need to have access to the vault? Because that the lister is because there's three of them And they're doing this and they're doing that There's a lot of talking that they have to do which is really noisy. So I saw my question. I guess I wonder if If this wouldn't negate the need for the listeners to have to be here There's a lot of towns using cots Um, and if our listeners aren't familiar with it They wouldn't have to go far to just to learn just this lay eyes on what it does And I don't know if each one has it or not. Yeah, so I guess I'm I'm gonna read this and see And so it's that lump sum plus something for $50 or something. Yep, right And the lump sum is a one-time Right digitization I guess and some I just would hate to have this build this Room this space all torn apart and you know, it seems like this there's been a lot of Shifting thought over the last three years. First we heard there's not enough space here Then we heard We don't need that space over everything's fine and everyone in the room All 50 people that worked in this office at that time Were quiet and no one challenged that um, and then A few months later, there's not enough space And then a few months later Up to now we need to renovate this To make take fullest advantage of this space with and minimize the disturbance Which was the original thing concerned raised three years ago when I was told that's like for a member My official there's not enough space and it's too noisy and went from too noisy to not noisy at all. I don't know what you're talking about so I really I think if we can get along until july and we get it and get a sense of what's over there Basically if we can do some white cards, which seems like we want to do that anyway If we can avoid spending Good money after bed spending 20 grand ripping this thing to pieces Only to have it. I think that's at some point though We have to think about a way and I don't know maybe the headphones will help for sandra It's really important that she has some quiet space to concentrate. Yeah well, can't we Can we in any way limit the days of the week That the listeners are here like they're only here like mondays and tuesdays To one o'clock and then they're gone. Well, except if they're meeting with somebody like they did the other day That they had to schedule that person's not going to want to come back and forth so but you know that that's on a A challenge of an appraisal or a question I mean to me if there is there were duplicate records the master records are here to originals And we had duplicate Lister files over there for instance, then they could have their meetings over there and if they need to go into the deeds In that you know 10 percent Chance just got to do these Yes, well, you know, I'm sure that's going to be really expensive. No, it's everything Well, that's the whole thing for 20,000. That would be the whole point is to be able to do Any kind of any kind of search of all the land records by just you know You put it you put in a name It gives you a list of all the transactions around that name grantor grantee A Delinquent tax issue, whatever. I mean it's limited by what you've put in it And then you can pop it up read it. Yep. I need to print it It's uh, I just went in sitting my player has It only goes back to 1980s up. Well, we could go back further that would be that's but that's 20 grand deal back to um And so if we're all going to buy well for so for a few years people would still need the walls because we're not that's not 40 years back but there's a probably like an even The more expensive option Called cots hosting Which is what Montpelier has a few other towns and that people can access room I thought that was what this was going to do. Well, they do talk about it at the beginning here just that But there is another layer called the the cloud access Well, anyways, I think we need to Invite us to Judy and to talk about this. Yeah, so we can integrate it with You know, we know we understand you need more space or a quiet space You know, maybe you can just put up a petition well just John's here where some of the conversations this may address some of your concerns Um, what we said is, you know, tell us what you think you need John, tell us if this is doable with what we have Realize none of this happens overnight and at the very minimum if we were going to do any of it It would have to happen in phases Yeah, because I've heard conversations of doing extensions on to the back of this building brought up to you know And there's been considerations of well, if we Have to go to a professional to act as our Lister Assessor, right? They would have to have most likely their own workspace That's what they're looking at is their own offices and stuff. So there's all of these larger considerations At another level Miss Andra's going to be formally working 40 hours a week The office is closed on Fridays There's time you can set aside. No, but she's been working 48 hours a week. Well, she's been coming in on Fridays anyway Right, and maybe that's what she could do though. It's it's formalized arrangement. She can set up a schedule that gives her Time to work when the office is closed, right? And she can partition out her work. I don't know You know, because I don't know what how her work flow is, right? But these are the conversations we need to have and that's why it's like I want to make sure that we bring these things up now so that it isn't like this shock When you hear it otherwise, so I don't want anybody to get all worked up about it because I'm just trying to make sure That that it's on the radar that you don't hear about it from someplace else. I'm not going to tell us and Because I feel like that's part of what my job is now is to Kind of gather all this information to bring it back to the full board so that you know what's going on It's not a surprise. So when you're down at the whammy bar and you hear John McCullis redesigning the whole You know what's going on over there, right? I do agree with what John was saying that it's a little it's a little hard to And probably a mistake to think too far ahead When we haven't finished the renovation and people can't fully appreciate what's the potential right there, right? No, I don't disagree with that, but I'm just saying that we hear about it weekly, right? Well, they're really really feeling They're really feeling the pinch Of I mean imagine three people in there. Everybody's on the phone You got somebody a couple people standing at the window the listers are over there in that corner working People are coming in and out. You got real estate agents in the vault I mean, we're here. I'm here enough now To see it and to experience it instead of just hear it from somebody and not to minimize Please and I understand the problems with state cubicles. I agree that they don't work very well. They're horrible, but state government you have My four deaths in that space with a little partition or five deaths in that space and and the work's getting done Well or not. I'm just saying that's Right, that's the norm today and you go to I was in the green mountain power office last year. Oh, those are awful and uh They're like that too and they're running a big corporation. So There's aisles of rows and rows and they're they do and stand-up deaths a lot of them and um, so on on the phone on headphones so I mean, this is really nice space. Is it well used? Probably not look it over there. Yeah, I think there's wasted space. I agree. So I think it's wasted space that I I'm hoping with minimal expense We could add You know, maybe sander's desk comes out here. Yeah, and you put up Some walls or you know, almost to the ceiling I mean, I think that we just have to look at what what are the odds? I just I just feel is I feel like if we can just Slow it down a bit. It's been stressful on the pain in the neck But they got through a year and it's only Eight months. I'm here in july one that thing's done And you know how that fast the winter goes and what we said when the snow comes and more sad when it goes so Um, it'll be july one before we know it Nothing's happening tomorrow And say it again Yeah, if you don't want me to bring these issues up so that you guys know what's going on Tell me and I won't now Denise that's not it. Don't get all personal about this. I just don't want this issue has been Across the gamut it's been not you We've been receiving I know that highly variable input from the same people And the conditions have been more or less the same over two and a half three years And and it's and like and I actually brought up I when I was arguing that that need to be town office and I got huge pushback here Not from this board, but not from the board I said No, I was hearing that this place was noisy And cramped and people can get their work done and then I hear from one individual. No, that's not true And and and everyone else was silent Everyone else was silent and so How can we operate effectively if we're not getting all the facts? So now Personalities have left and changed and and now all of a sudden there's this frenzy And it's more or less separate Barbara the same but no it's the same amount of people except so so I I just Let's not buy into the frenzy right now. Okay. I hear you john I am bringing these issues up. So you know what's going on I didn't expect that we were going to get into a 20 minute debate about what it was. Well, it's come up Well, Denise. Okay, Denise. So but you know what Denise? This has been brought up like three times and I keep hearing about renovation Now I'm hearing about Budget and whether we can do it in our budget. So I'm so it's good. Thank you. Thank you for bringing it I know you're getting all sensitive about I'll get sensitive. I'm not getting something about it. It's after nine o'clock It's and it's time to I think it's time to end this part of this discussion Okay, we yeah, we just need to talk about it when we're fresh, right? It's It's good to know you hear about it every single one you guys have to listen to it all the time So, but we all agree we're going to take a deep breath and And I'm not taking yet No, I just need to take a deep breath and wait until that's done And then we'll have the whole slate will be in front of right and the people and the whole issue when it came up Before there was a whole different set of personalities Dynamics that we can't and should not get into Right, so well i'm just telling you that that information and what we relied on Yeah, I think we need to so i'm wondering if the board can we just like that kind of just set them in the middle of the table, please So she ever can pick them up tomorrow um minutes I think two meetings, right? 15th or 22nd and 29th, right I don't want to see them Yeah, do you want to bring them up, please? There's a 15th Yeah, add treasure after Since we added everybody else's title I don't remember anything else on those units or not We don't have Alpha's title I thought it's a road condition. No, I haven't at the top Yeah, but I had it at the top Oh, he's not even on the top Oh, it doesn't say road commission. You're right Should it always happen for office staff and town employees? Yes, I think yeah, it might as well get in the habit of doing that that way if anybody looks back. They don't have to look back to Everything Yeah, yeah I don't think the operation expanded it was in attendance at this meeting was it He did come once recently That was last time He's not on the list of those staff Ten days up here Yep, I didn't think to add on that I mean, he usually put a standard sentence in there. Operations manager wasn't in attendance or something Yep, okay. Anybody else have any comments on those? Okay All right, do we want to make a motion on this one? I don't know, I'm sure We have approved those minutes If the changes is made, edits is ready to be made Give me one second All right, all those in favor, please say aye All right, is anybody abstaining? I'm not abstaining Okay One second Did you look at these, Sharon? I did Yes, I did Because that was the ones where we did green line And we're clarified about the money or something, right? Yeah, it was the legal, the legal Legal fees, legal services Our quarterly advance payment Right And we got free time for hours now I mean, it's a really convenient thing Yeah, oh yeah But I don't know if we Sometimes those comments, they're not, they don't line up with If people make too many comments, they get way long So I don't remember now If we put We might want to put in the minutes If there was a budget, oh We have a section, budget, town record items Yeah, because remember, we clarified that the road Operations manager's salary Is included in the Highway budget Wait a month Right, and we didn't know that I think that was in last week's minutes It was in last week's minutes Do you want me to write something in there? If it's in last week's minutes, we don't need to I just want to make sure Because otherwise I was never sure Where we're supposed to show up Well now we have to remember Or remember where it is in the minutes Either that, I think All of this challenge Yeah If that's it for that one, right? Further down Yeah, and we need to change Lawsuit On the Act 46 stuff They're calling it an appeal, not a lawsuit It's an appeal of the decision Of the Board of, of the Vermont Board of Education So we'll just call it an appeal, right? Right I don't know why that sentence is there The chair come under the chair Invited all the town schools whenever Yeah, you got something to move that one I've left it up so other people could see In case someone prints it I don't know I mean unless people think it really needs to be in there I did invite everybody and the only people That showed up were Scott Rick and Dot I mean it doesn't mean anything To leave it in or not Because it doesn't really say but Only three members showed up or something like that So I don't really care if it's in there or not Anything else? Did you look at these rules? I don't remember if I did, but I think they look fine Okay I think I might have looked at them before Does anybody want to make a motion to approve these With edits? Is there a second? Second Any further discussion? All those in favor, please say aye Next one This is the one there Here we go That's why I get confused on which version to use What do you Why does that highlight the chair? Whenever you put in a comment I just made a note Oh we talked about one time I would just make a note if I could look at them And she wanted to add it to the minutes that she would be Yeah right No Honestly it's half for me So that if we don't approve them for three more weeks I can go in and see my own Okay I already read these I don't have the spare time on it I didn't make any changes for what that was Yeah I don't Did you have anything else on these? I didn't make any changes on them Rose? I didn't read them Do you want to postpone these or do you want to go ahead? Alright if anybody want to make a motion No I do have something that's minor Should be Toby Cowell that The parentheses Operations Manager Okay Just for consistency So I'll go back into all three of these At the top and add everyone's Perfect Alright I'll make a motion to approve these Minutes with changes There a second I'll second All those in favor please say aye Aye Alright now the question is Does the board want to go into Executive Session to further discuss personnel matters? Huey? Maybe for a few minutes we should Well it's fresh in everybody's brain So I would make a motion to Go into Executive Session to discuss personnel matters Per one DSA Section 313A3 At 9.15 All those in favor please say aye Aye Any opposed hearing none