 And I want to say thank you, Roger for running back for having us steal you away from essentially commerce and transaction cookies And so that's gonna be the topic of our panel. And so just to refresh everyone I'm gonna have each of the panelists introduce themselves and Give us one thought as they introduce themselves about adoption of Bitcoin cash their number one thought starting with Josh So I'm Josh Althorpe. I'm senior engineer at Coinbase and when it comes to adoption The first step is every single person in this room Making sure that we spread the need for people to accept and be able to transact with Bitcoin cash My name is Justice Ranveer. I'm the lead architect at stash and In terms of spreading Bitcoin Bitcoin adoption Bitcoin cash adoption Same thing, right? I think the most important focus is we need wallets That focus on the workflows and the needs of the people who want to use the money I'm Roger veer. I was the first person in the world to start investing in Bitcoin startups Currently, I'm the CEO of Bitcoin comm and can't wait to spread Bitcoin cash to the world So I'm Lauren Gamaroff the CEO and co-founder of sent be and our whole entire focus is trying to get people to use Bitcoin cash for payments and I think that you know, we've seen a lot of Cool technology we see what n-chains doing and we see what all the guys at ABC and unlimited and everyone's doing But right now we need cool products something that Everybody, you know and and their grandmother can use something something that's simple and really fun to use And I think we can take a lot of we can learn a lot from the apps that we all have in our pockets already today Like what's up and Twitter and so on if we can build a product that works and looks like that then we'll get traction My name is Ken shishito. I'm co-organizer for Tokyo Bitcoin meet-up since 2013 I personally hosted over 170 meet-ups in Tokyo In the in addition to merchant adoption and improved you eyes maybe We need more girls power in the Bitcoin space to have the more balance and Different There you go, the congregation says amen Ken Okay, so thank you very much a pleasure to meet you all all right, so One of the things we you know really know notices that everybody in this audience has a mobile phone Okay, but not necessarily everybody in this audience has a mobile wallet Why do you think that is and what can we do to fix that problem? So I guess I'll just jump in I think that the number one problem is really what Lorian said is the killer app Right people are used to using Venmo and these other things that integrate with their native contact list Their friends are easy to contact and they can send fiat to things without knowing an address or any complicated behavior So when it comes down to it I should be able to go into my contacts and say I want to send them money and it shouldn't be I Need to worry about a receive address or anything complicated and it needs to be so Transparent that someone that has no idea that they're sending crypto is able to transfer value and that it happens over the crypto networks It's all about ease of use. It's about Transparent usage and I think that's really the key to the next level of adoption for us I'll add a little bit more to that So I completely agree with what Josh said we need to make the apps as easy as we possibly can to the best user Experience we possibly can but the other side of that is we need to make the network itself Provide the best user experience we possibly can which means fast cheap irreversible reliable transactions and Bitcoin cash has that And I think that's why all of us are on this stage or such big fans of Bitcoin cash So we have the apps and the user interface side of things be as easy as possible Right and we have the network itself be as user friendly as possible on Bitcoin cash The devs behind that are actually have that in mind whereas on other coins, maybe not so much there you go Anyone else? Well, Josh actually stole my answer shame on you Josh You know I was gonna talk about the fact that wallets wallets the The original first-generation wallets were designed around the needs of Bitcoin transactions you need public keys. So you have public key managers addresses are just a synonym for public keys really and we need to transition to contact-based interactions and which those don't necessarily just include simple payments I Guess how many people in the audience understand the term net 30 billing more than I expected actually Let's just say like maybe 10% If you want Bitcoin used as money the Final end user payments are just the last step of a very deep supply chain And so we also need the business logic tools We need the tools that a business uses to interact with their suppliers to build the lines of credit and settle Settle those out on the on the terms they're used to you know things like a trade credit net billing those exist for a reason and We need more people. No, we need less people who understand that so that I can build the solutions So disregard what I just said But yeah, ultimately ultimately we need full supply chain penetration and that will that will involve things a lot different than just easy to use end user apps Gloria, okay, so here's the question if we know What we need to do and we have the technology. What's stopping us from delivering this today? I'll address that so I think we built a whole bunch of the technology to do that and Then the protocol layer side of it got distorted and was no longer user-friendly Excuse me, and that made it so the end users had a bad experience And now we're having to rebuild and redo a lot of the work that we've already done in the past But we've already done it once and we can do it again And we're going to do it again And the fact that all of us are in this room today shows that we're going to do it again And we're gonna do it even faster than we did the last time so Bitcoin cash has only been around what seven months now We already have a whole bunch of wallets. We have hundreds of thousands of merchants around the world accepting it We have just about every exchange around the world accepting it look at how fast we've been moving We're moving faster than the last time around and we're going to do it faster better and cheaper and more reliably Than a Bitcoin core for sure because they actually have the wrong goals in mind So the whole space even though it's been around for nine years ten years I Think people have lost Track or lost the whole notion that Bitcoin is money, you know It's all it's now when I see the the people who are in the space who are working in the space They've got even funding in the space. They're not actually working on money products. They're working on token products or They're trying to do all these things like the crypto cats and so on smart contracts You know a lot of this the the developers who have the ability to work in the space It's not on money, you know the the whole idea was cash That was what it was all about and now it's blockchain and and the million and things you can do with blockchain So it's almost like all the the potential that was There in the beginning all the smart guys and all the girls that that were excited about cash Got distracted by all this other mad stuff. So it's almost like You know when I when I thought about how Bitcoin cash was the second coming it was a Revival of this notion that all this is about money. That's what it was all about And I think that hopefully we can now get back a lot of that That's smartness from the community to start building out money products because again It's all it's all been diverted into what I think is largely a red herring trail You know trying to figure out how to decentralize everything whether it should be or not So I'm so delighted that Bitcoin cash has reminded us that it is about money and this is what with excitement should be And for those that don't believe it read the title of the white paper. It's right there in the title. I Would say that There's there are definitely people in the world who want Bitcoin to be money for various reasons and for every one of those reasons there's a lot of vested interests who do not want it to become money and the second group is far more well resourced than the first and so in terms of a simple task like creating an entirely new monetary system and the Corresponding economy that goes with it. You're gonna be short of resources to begin with and then you have to contend with the fact that the Interests who would be disrupted and don't want to adapt to the new system are going to try to buy up your talent and get them working on other Projects that either even if they don't directly hinder you at least just take the talent away and have them doing something else and on top of that You have a lot of people in the world who there they they have that eternal regret of I didn't buy enough bitcoins early enough and Some people get over that and move on with their lives and other people get fixated on it and say Lightning can you know I can catch lightning in a bottle again. It's not gonna happen in bitcoins So I'll launch an ICO and maybe I'll get the returns that I would have got if I bought Bitcoin in 2010 and I think there's I think there there's a Lot of I don't think you I don't think you get those people back I think they're just always gonna pursue that until they give up which could be decades from now So we just have to build what we can with what we have Thank you. All right. Go ahead Josh So I have a slightly different take on it And it's one of the downsides of decentralized development and us talking about these decentralized blockchains is that we have Development teams that are working in isolation from one another. We have bips, but then the bips aren't universally supported across wallets I may have an identity system in one wallet that I use that doesn't work in another wallet So the consistency of experience across the product lines between the wallet vendors Actually would be a huge benefit to the industry and it's difficult because you want to be on the same page But a lot of people are so focused on the decentralized part of the currency They don't see the benefits to standards and working together to make sure that we have consistent experiences and to echo Roger's point about the networks functioning correctly They have to be consistent. It has to be consistent from app to app The fees have to be consistent from transaction to transaction and that Consistency is what brings a user to trust and continue to use that system over time So what I'd encourage is the wallet manufacturers and wallet developers to really look at the entire Ecosystem and think outside of the scope of just their wallet How does their wallet interact with their the other wallets in the ecosystem? Do they work easily together because us as users we like choices and we're not all going to use the same solutions So they have to play well together Thank You Josh and Josh since you gave us such an awesome answer I'm gonna put you a little bit of a hot seat here. All right Josh. How many users does coin days have? So I don't have exact numbers for you range brother. Okay, so probably approximately 20 million Hold on. Okay. That's a that's a big number Now, how do us app developers in Bitcoin cash get to write apps that we can target those 20 million coin base? So the reality is just consistency and making sure that the specs are clear between everyone, right? I'm really excited about what bit pay did but they had two options They had a way to do a backward compatible BIP 72 version of their wallet that would have worked across the entire ecosystem Or they could have chosen BIP 70 is what they rolled out and only a small segment of the ecosystem could get the benefit of 100,000 merchants that they onboarded So we have to think about how people are using these products and make sure that the tools that the user needs to use are Available to them well in advance of the services requiring them and that takes a level of coordination and really making sure that you know We're working together and planning these things together even if we're going to be developing different new solutions to these problems So in essence we if we take your position The Bitcoin cash community can answer your call Will will coin does that make it easy for us to get coin base to say? Hey, they're great Bitcoin cash apps that coin base users can use is that a pathway The truth is is that we want to provide fiat solutions for users and we're not a wallet people use us as a wallet but that's not our primary business model and So we encourage people to have their own private keys go and install a wallet where you control the funds and use us as a fiat Gateway that's great, and you get the best of both worlds You get the ability to have a good exchange rate and get your crypto and start interacting within that economy And then you can own your own private keys and have an amazing wallet that you control and you can have both and Growing the pie is way better than fighting over a slice There you go. Thank you Can all right, you're grounded here in Tokyo In which you've seen some of the most advanced uses of mobile wallets and mobile apps possibly in the world What do you think we can learn from you know the Tokyo Japanese approach to? Mobile wallet technology that may we may not be aware of from what you've seen Mobile wallet technologies. You know, I'm just use cases. You know, I'm just trying to say hey Here's another you know Japan and Tokyo. It's another world. We may not have a full visual into it Is there anything that we can learn? Okay? this Satoshi vision conference has been aired on nightly news at 11 p.m. Nightly news on Friday So it's a really clearly we are moving into mainstream and we are no longer a bunch of geeks anymore So I've been in Bitcoin space for some times and one thing I learned is that I Cannot change other people. I can only change myself So we these mainstream users they don't really care about Decentralization open source, you know elliptic curve and all these crazy terms we use so one of the Proposal I recently submit is to call one millionth of Bitcoin as cash new denomination because three dollars Starbucks latte is going to be 0.003 VCH correct and we started using telegram tip tip bot right we send back and forth 0.003 VCH Bracket three dollars This is so crazy for I mean it's too impossible for for new users To to adopt when we use decimal points. So one millionth to be called as cash Starbucks coffee is going to be three thousand cash today and When big BTC becomes 1004 in five years, it's going to be three cash Yeah, BCH goes. Yeah, right. So, yeah, we don't have to use another denomination and Let's see and we can differentiate using bits differentiate using cash from Beats used in BTC. So you say co-opt cash. Let's just go for it. All right. There you go I do you're in or you're out, right? There you go okay We talked Josh mentioned a little bit about Venmo as a possible use case coming back now to use cases that are really that you guys have all seen and You know, you've seen get people involved in You know Bitcoin Bitcoin cash. Are there any particular use cases, you know that you would say hey, you know We need another Venmo for Bitcoin cash today, or we need something else I know you mentioned crypto kiddies, but there's demand there You know, maybe we need a crypto kiddies for Bitcoin cash any particular use cases gambling I mean whatever you've seen that you said listen, these are the use cases that are generating interest and demand from the greater population I can answer that I think so and the answer has actually been Basically the same for maybe four years now and there's a fantastic website called purse.io That just recently announced that full support for Bitcoin cash is coming. There you go and For anybody in this room who doesn't know what purse.io is it's a website that allows people to arbitrage Amazon store credit which has a net effect so that any Bitcoin cash holder soon Will be able to get a 15, 20, 25 percent discount on every single purchase from Amazon That is a big deal and that is substantial discount amount And that's enough to get everybody who's not interested in financial privacy and cryptography and cypher punks and this and that They can save $20 of their next hundred dollar purchase on Amazon. Boom. They will become a user and that's a fantastic use case And I'll tell people a little bit more about what I have going on So I recently actually not so recent anymore, but a while back. I became a citizen of a country called St. Kids in the Caribbean. There's a less than 50,000 people living there. Everybody shops on Amazon We just imported four Bitcoin cash ATM machines into the country. We're going to spread them all over the place So that's probably the highest per capita Bitcoin ATM ratio of any country in the world by far And we're going to tell them all about purse.io and show them how to use these machines to save money on Amazon And I think there's a really good chance we can get just about every single person in this country using Bitcoin cash Probably by the end of this year because it will spread like wildfire Because there's not a single person out there who doesn't love to save money And if you can save money and use Bitcoin by doing it Everybody even if they're not a crypto nerd is going to be using Bitcoin cash So watch how we're going to do it there Nice work So I definitely echo that sentiment discounts and providing a better price point by using Cryptocurrencies is a great adoption mechanic. Another thing is is products that are only sold in Bitcoin cash So encouraging artists to sell their next CD exclusively in Bitcoin cash fashion designers to put out items of their next Seasons fashionable accessories only available in Bitcoin cash and trying to encourage people to make things not Available in other currencies Forces people to take the plunge as long as the user experience is right now It still can't be complex It still can't be about cryptography and all of these complex topics that we love to talk about the average User just doesn't care about those things But if the the only way they can get that handbag is by using Bitcoin cash Or the only way that they can get their favorite artists work is Bitcoin cash It's another avenue that we can have that is a unique differentiator So in Africa, you know, we've got such a perfect storm of events there that that will just naturally lead people to use it we so Excited about the possibility because people are used to mobile money and because it costs so much money to to to send Across border, you know, as soon as we launch we we really think that it's going to be this There's going to be this huge demand just to start picking up Bitcoin cash to be able to to send money instead of paying 15% You know to pay 1% so we think that it's going to be this this kind of tsunami of People rushing into Bitcoin cash and I hope that in the months to come You know, I can give you guys a report back on on what's been happening there But we're going to be able to undercut every single money transfer operator in that in within Africa I mean, it's impossible for them to to compete and the fact that we've been engaging our regulators And that's why I made such a point of it, you know that we've been able to Show them that this is not this dark market thing, you know, we can actually Report whatever information they want and for the vast majority of customers, you're going to be using the service You know, it's they they're going to be at that level where they don't need any reporting You know, if you're moving a thousand dollars a month or something, you know, that's not going to be the issue Obviously the regulators are looking for the higher value transactions So we're going to be able to really undercut everybody there We're gonna outcompete everybody and there's going to be this massive drive. So really look towards the end of this year I think you're going to start seeing massive volumes through flowing especially, you know from from the sub-Saharan part of Africa and that's why I'm very very very very bullish on Bitcoin cash just because of what we've been we've been able to do there and what And the and the acceptance especially from the regulator environment that is going to be the the key that drives adoption They are getting that kind of stamp of approval All right. Is this All these are good use cases so far one of the one of the long-time use cases that I've thought about ever since ever since Bitcoin really got rolling is The idea of remote freelancing, you know any service that can be delivered remote Lee via the internet is a perfect case for getting paid in Bitcoin So there for people who are getting paid in dollars. There's a website called Fiverr Which is mainly a matchmaking site that helps People who are looking for a small freelance task to find people willing to provide it something along those lines maybe not exactly that model but that Help helps people who want to freelance internationally cross-border find customers and maybe do some Just support for them to make it easier to run their business that can grow a Class of native native Bitcoin businesses that can't really Exist any other way All right quick question for you guys now on the topic of privacy You know, it's some of the other chains that shall not be named You know privacy has been an excuse for making certain decisions Do you think privacy is important for greater customer adoption? mobile or otherwise So I think one of the characteristics that make money money is fungibility and Fungibility is just another way of saying privacy So in order for something to be useful as money, it has to be fungible and in order for something to be fungible It has to be private. So it's just It's not good or bad That's what money is just like the fact that gravity makes things fall down and not up. That's the way the world works It's the same when it comes to money It's in order for something to be good money is it has to be fungible and fungibility is just another word for privacy I'm actually gonna have to disagree a little bit with Roger on this. Okay. All right. Here we go I've been waiting 25 years ish for email encryption to take on to catch on and it hasn't worked so far and over the year recent years I had to think why hasn't that worked and It turns out that user Preferences they have their hierarchy of preferences. They want their most immediate and pressing problem solve first and We as privacy advocates as much as we might want to we can't actually force them to change those There those priorities we can't make them value privacy if they have more short-term Goals so the approach. I think we have to take it if we believe that Privacy is a very important long-term goal, which I agree with you on that. I think we have to We have to take the approach that we the users will allow us to To make make To make things more private as along as we solve all of their other higher priority problems first so I look at it as a way of if if we give a good user experience if we solve the problems that they want solved and Don't really impose on them. Then we can build privacy into our applications. I don't think we disagree at all. Okay You know that the whole privacy thing especially for the vast majority of users that are coming to the space It's not an issue, you know Again, this is now coming from my experience from how regulators are treating these payment methods You know if you are going to be moving a million Dollars worth to an exchange then of course that exchange is going to ask for information and possibly report on that But for the vast majority of transactions that occur in Bitcoin cash Regulators don't care, you know if money is coming into a merchant You know below certain thresholds and certainly below the thresholds that are other standard retail thresholds Yes, if you're buying a Lambo, of course You know the Lambo merchant is probably gonna report on why that money is coming from but Bitcoin is going to be Treated as cash So, you know if you go into a retail and you spend cash that retail is not going to say where did you get that money from and So again, you know, we are all maybe care about these things because we've been in the space We've been you know interested in in how Bitcoin works and and the privacy and that sort of thing But really when this goes mainstream and you know, that's when because it certainly isn't now even though the price is high It's going for the vast majority of people in this space They're not gonna ever care about the fact that yes that transaction might possibly be traced to a wallet that they own It's pseudonymous. So that is I think far and enough For most most people on the planet Want to take a slightly different position from that you are right in the short term Users are not thinking of privacy right now. They have more immediate pressing concerns that they want solved Privacy is a it's a more of a long-term risk that People they they won't care about it and they won't think about it until there's an emergency And they they really wish things had been done differently and the example that I'll use for that the the founder of Mozilla Back in the early 2000s. He made a donation to some political campaign he believed in at the time and you know years went past but You know recently ish. I don't remember how many years ago it was but at some point That became an issue somebody who for whatever reason Really disagreed with his choice brought that up and caused a huge controversy and actually forced him out of his job Which he then went on to start the brave rouser, which is doing great things. So maybe in the long run It was okay, but at that moment when he was going through this crisis and being forced out of his Forced out of the company he founded He probably wished that his donation way back however many years ago was a lot more private than it ended up being Yes, but that wasn't a pseudonymous transaction. That was a known transaction He was he was doxxed at the time of the transaction, right? But the the principle though is that at the time of a transaction the user might not have an immediate privacy concern But you cannot predict in the future how you can't you can't judge how 15 years from the future how society will judge your behavior now because that can change rapidly is what we've seen so When you are building privacy into a project You're actually protecting the long-term interest of the users against problems that they don't even know that they might have And if you do your job, right, they'll never even know that it was a problem at all But we see how transactions are fungible because even the US Marshals are selling tainted coins from you know drug dealers So it's not that that Address can be traced to some user years down the line I mean even if even if your transaction can be traced to a silk road, you know Coin that makes no difference because we're treating Bitcoin cash as fungible, right? When I'm talking about privacy issues. I'm not necessarily talking about government regulations Private actors. I I think we see in the in the present tense in the present time We see way more censorship by private actors than by government actors. So it's not You know, yeah, yeah, the the US Marshals and the regulators consider the coins fungible, but I would bet that Google And maybe to a lesser extent Facebook knows a huge amount about Bitcoin addresses and who they're connected to Just due to the fact that probably a lot of people communicate send me, you know Send me to my address and they send an email and they use Gmail There are the the level of information that's known about who owns what bitcoins The best data is probably not in the hands of the government. It's in the hands of these large social media companies and Nobody knows how that information is going to be used in the next ten years You don't know who's going to be in charge of these companies what their interests are going to be and How they will choose to act on that data Is that better all right how about this that works better all right But there's other privacy concerns as well if I'm gonna have be shipped something Then I'm gonna have a shipping address associated with that Eventually, we're gonna have lending systems that are built on top of crypto systems They require them to have an identity attached so they understand who the person they're lending to is and that data Even if it is pseudo anonymous upfront or only held by a certain company upfront can always be subpoenaed There's always ways for them to get that data as well So the number of avenues for them to get it are not just social media But all of these other vectors and if we make it so that fungibility or the privacy features of a coin are Opt-in then they know exactly what transactions to look at so I'm a fan of fungibility long term But I actually think that needs to happen for every single transaction It needs to be consistent on the chain for everyone and that way that's just the way the coin works That's the way that we do business rather than opt-in systems and that being said You know mixers are great and other ways to increase fungibility are great when the fees are low Those are definitely good ways that you can do that today, but ultimately we can strive for better You mentioned information that could be subpoenaed And there are probably people who hear that and say well, I don't care if I'm ever subpoenaed I'm not going to do anything wrong and that can be entirely true but in the last year we have seen people kidnapped and Held for ransom because they were known to hold large amounts of bitcoins So even if even if for somebody who never who's determined. I don't care I'm not worried about the government ever coming down on me in any way whatsoever We've seen more private crime than we've seen state crime in terms of bitcoins You have to disagree with that so Ross Holbrook some pretty good examples He's locked in a cage that state crime against a peaceful individual So there's been plenty of both private actors and state actors aggressing against Bitcoin users. Sorry to interrupt I'm certainly not a fan of Ross's situation I Guess my point was And there's another he wasn't I can add one was actually another morning Bitcoin There's an even more sympathetic victim So there's a guy that sold bitcoins to some other guy in a Starbucks I think it was in Michigan State or somewhere in that part of the US and I think he just got like a seven-year Prison sentence or something like that because it turned out the people that he was selling Bitcoin to Were undercover government agents and they said oh you didn't get our permission slip to sell Bitcoin and He's in jail right now There's a heart-wrenching YouTube video where he's talking about he has you know two kids I think are like seven and eleven and the father's gonna be in jail for the next seven years because he sold Bitcoin To somebody who contacted him on local bitcoins. And so that's another Fantastic in a horrible way example of state actors aggressing against Bitcoin users that haven't hurt anybody He didn't buy or sell any drugs or do anything other than sell Bitcoin to somebody and that guy's in jail right now today And he's not the only one this is happening all over the world So don't think that that private kidnappers are your only fears There's all sorts of us state actors that are doing bad things to people that just want to live a happy life. I Think we should oppose all the forms of kidnapping All right, I am now going to turn to my audience Because we've been talking for a while I just want to know audience. Is there anybody here with an awesome question for this awesome panel? Break, but I've been talking to some wallet makers and people Out there. They didn't really like my idea. They said it was impossible But I'd like to see more collaboration between exchanges wallets and merchants And what I'd like to see is be able to like it's great that Amazon's giving us this discount I'd like to be able to just have a wallet that gives me an incentive every time I spend Bitcoin cash It automatically replaces it where there's an option that I can press that it just does it for me and With that if I press that option I get it at a discounted rate through the exchange through the wallet and through the merchant So it gives everyone an incentive to have a replace option, but done through the wallet So I've actually talked to a lot of wallets about this I've actually gone out of my way outside of my role at Coinbase to talk to wallet makers and see What features we can do to make the spend and replace paradigm much easier? And I think some of the wallet vendors are looking at tokenization as ways to provide those incentives You look at what bread wallet is doing with the BRD token and they're offering zero percent Exchange from fiat if you have a certain amount of bread. That's one of their goals moving forward I think these types of incentives are actually extremely powerful and being able to have watch only wallets using just expub keys Makes it really easy for me to track what your expenditure is and then automatically go ahead and refill that through some service And I think that that's coming I think that that has been discussed by a number of wallet vendors But I think the infrastructure is just kind of getting built out now We're just starting to see goodbye and sell features natively in your average wallet Not just a brokerage product wallet And I think that will continue to expand with services and integrations like simplex, etc That are trying to provide that to the wallet makers today Good question. Just to confirm you said bread was going to allow a discount on trading to fiat as a broker I believe it was a discount on Purchase say on the fiat to crypto conversion based on Rewards from their bread token So if you had enough bread then they would offer these incentives and that was one of the examples of incentives that they were talking About within their wallet. So tokens and the idea of basically customer loyalty in the form of a token I think will be more prevalent moving forward. Does that mean that bread is an exchange? They're gonna be they want to be the large decentralized exchange. They're adding those assets That's kind of their their vision now. Yep. I don't want to speak for them I'm sure that they will talk about those things in the future. Absolutely. Thank you any others. All right I'm coming to you. I think the black market is just a diffimism for the free market So at the end of the day But at the end of the day, it's up to all of us with good morals and values to condemn Things that are being sold on the black market that are immoral. So assassinations. Don't don't kill people. All right, it shouldn't be complicated But if you want to buy a plant that makes you feel happy Go for it. If you want to buy a white powder that makes you feel happy go for it And anybody who wants to stop you from doing those things Those are the bad people with the misguided set of moral values that should be stopped and hopefully can be stopped Thanks to the invention of cryptocurrencies. So the more black markets that start using cryptocurrencies in general Fantastic, I think that's a great thing and it was actually thanks to the Silk Road that I heard about Bitcoin for the very first time It was a new story in regards to that and I've never been interested in drugs myself I've never tried any illegal drugs and rarely drink alcohol never tried a cigarette When I heard about this magic money that was allowing people to buy drugs on the internet. I didn't think what type of drugs I said, what kind of money is this? And that's why I got involved in Bitcoin Also, you know, if you look at all technology, it seems that Those sorts of things the sin industries, you know, porn and gambling, you know They always try out these new technologies and that's where things kind of take off So, you know, free market black market I mean as Roger said, I think a lot of us remember Silk Road being this incredible story Not just because it was drugs, but because it had this weird internet money so I'm happy for those sorts of industries to Stimulate the use of these things if it means that eventually the technology trickles out into the rest of us and we can benefit from it black markets You independently of whether you or not you think they should exist they perform a very vital information signaling If a currency is capable of if if a black market is capable of using a currency like Roger said What kind of money is this? So the existence of a black market tells you that you have a certain amount of resiliency in your currency That you wouldn't have if it wasn't possible to run it So if we're looking to make something like Bitcoin cash into a global currency Then it should be at least as as useful for crime as the US dollar is You know, if it's if it can't match the dollar, then it's not going to take over. That's pretty good logic Josh so to me I think that focusing on the term dark net markets or black markets is really not the way that we should phrase it To me we have amazing products out there that are peer to peer commerce systems And that's what a dark market really is is something where me and you can choose to trade goods And we have people that are building those systems today. We had presentations from open bazaar. That's not a black market That's allowing us to trade freely with one another and accept crypto currencies And it's really important to phrase things correctly and base it on the intent of what you want It's not about trading illicit goods It's about the freedom to trade goods with your peers without an intermediary and do for money Do for commerce like we did for money with crypto currencies And I think that should be the way that we describe it and that way we don't get that illicit connotation I just want to trade with my friends if I want to and it shouldn't matter what I'm trading And I can trade any good and service I want Without There you go Go ahead Ken I'm not so familiar with black market, but Maybe with a porn industry There you go. I mean Japanese porn is kind of popular but but Reality is that and you know beautiful girls usually can smell money but But reality is that porn industry haven't really started using Bitcoin cash yet So that really means we really have a lot of work to do with UX I really go So we still have not a good substitute Thank you, Ken. All right We got another question. I gotta go down coming down coming down The talker the talk earlier with a coinbase We talked about how there's really non-trivial amounts of money now In custody with exchanges and now with you know, like hedge funds and things getting into cryptocurrency I did a blog post and I think coinbase probably stores more US dollars Than the gold reserves of Belgium. So that's all countries except for about 20 How can we mitigate in terms of you know, like state-sponsored kidnapping private kidnapping confiscation? How can we mitigate against state actors seizing some of that money as it gets into these large sponsored regulated institutions So since you brought up coinbase, I guess I'll go ahead and jump in on that one It's it's a really hard problem and to me It's really making sure that you're working with regulators right now at this point There's enough money and liquidity in the markets that working with the regulators and governments is absolutely required to make sure that you Can have a sustainable business model that can hold that number of assets Working with and making sure that you're ensuring those assets to the best of your ability and making sure that if Black swan event happens to your exchange that you're out there to protect your customers in the best way you can is Absolutely essential and that's why when you're picking your exchange and where you're gonna store your funds And when you're looking at custody Reputation their security systems their relationship with the government institutions the level of Wanting to play with the existing system so that the system understands you're not working against them But working with them to push the industry forward is absolutely essential keeping your money on an exchange that Glotes about the fact that they don't want to work with regulators is just it's a risk proposition Why would you do that? You they've just put a giant target on their head Why they should be shut down and so I think that those relationships are essential and that's part of the reason I decided to go to Coinbase is I think that that balance is something they do extremely well They believe in a crypto future, but they also understand the realities of working with the government institutions That are necessary in the world today to play along with and that way we can guide regulation Make sure it's fair and make sure that this market is an orderly one that is something that can continue to grow One of the ways that people can reduce their exchange risk is by not using exchanges So if you're going from the the paradigm of somebody has a big pile of dollars and they convert it to bitcoins Yeah, that's gonna leave it that's gonna leave a trail and there's going to be risk of that information leaking at some point people who earn their Bitcoin through commerce through through freelancing from Contracting they are not as exposed to exchanges, especially the more they are able to Pay their expenses in bitcoins to and just live Bitcoin natively So that that category of users which should grow over time is not going to have the same risk profile as currency speculators who are moving between the fiat and the Bitcoin Absolutely, I have to just say that I completely agree with that It's all about the supply chain and where you're getting your money if you can start getting paid in crypto or working for crypto Then you're not touching anything that needs to transfer value. You're in a much better place. It's a it's more anonymous you get better soon and then pseudo anonymity as you don't have to give up your identity and Then those those transactions are truly, you know Just between you and that other party and we really need to strive to get there But it's a lot easier for us sitting in this room in this space right now To get to that world where we can get paid either partially or entirely in cryptocurrency for most of the world, we're just not there yet and We need to be able to facilitate better tools to get there and right now those exchanges are where they're getting that liquidity Even if they're going to pay you in Bitcoin because unless they're connected to the miners They have to buy their Bitcoin somewhere and so we're stuck in a position where that full circle that entire Money monetary cycle hasn't really been fulfilled. And that's something we need to think about as a community to fill in those gaps Talking about adoption I'm just wondering if there's any concerted effort to Partner with movement operators in various countries. I'm the CEO of VT network limited Nigeria I also run a mobile payment gateway in the US We do clearing for Western Union many of the remittance companies Now the challenge is I understand Bitcoin. I've been following Bitcoin for a very long time But the challenge is we operate in a very regulated environment For some reason I was listening to George. He actually made, you know Very important point about user experience So because we already operating that in a Regulated environment that the way we look at Bitcoin and certain things that we can actually Partner on might be different from the core Bitcoin users and Because when you operate in a regulated environment, you have to absolutely Take on distance of what the government is telling you regarding, you know, identification for certain amount of transactions and so on and so forth. So my question really is for Bitcoin cash to really take a second look At what you to take to actually create this adoption by looking at the existing work environment operators number two Is the issue of speed in a situation whereby you process over 500,000 a month How would that work speed-wise on Bitcoin cash? So we we are in discussions with one of the largest money mobile operators in Africa and also with the reserve bank of South Africa and other reserve banks and What we and it's been a long process because there's had to be a lot of education around How the technology works and so on But what we've realized is that it's actually, you know, not very hard to imagine An operator like yourself Taking on a cryptocurrency as because there are a lot of regulations In terms of KYC and AML that exist already So really what you're doing is you're just using the cryptocurrency as a rail and as long as You are complying with all the regulations around source of funds and so on and deposit taking then it shouldn't really be a Very difficult process to incorporate a cryptocurrency as a rail as an actual transfer rail But that is really dependent on the regulators becoming educated around that. So now in South Africa It's we're in a privileged place and I think that a lot of African countries look to the regulators in South Africa You know, because you know, it's such a dominant economy that right now I'm pleased to tell you that they are about to publish a new Perspective on cryptocurrency. They had one published in 2014 and that's since changed and I think that What we're going to see is a new set of guidelines that are going to come out now Which which sort of explains how these cryptocurrencies will fit in the in the context of the existing Policies now it's always difficult to create new policies that takes many years So I think that what we're going to see now is that as long as you comply with those existing regulations around crypto current around Money and so on you'll be fine. And now in terms of the speed, you know, we've had a conference about Bitcoin cash and and this whole notion of zero confirmation or a transaction and I think that as we see now going ahead with Bitcoin cash that those transactions can be more reliable and as Researchers in the space that are here. Many of them are here today to start Publishing papers on the reliability of accepting zero confirmations up to certain thresholds Then I think that whole speed thing is is a non-issue I think that's really been the whole point of this conference is to show that Bitcoin cash has really solved that problem So I think that is a problem that you really don't have to worry about but definitely Look to the South African Reserve Bank They're about to publish this they've their outlook and I think that's going to accelerate things rapidly as long as your regulators Take that what what's being published? Seriously, so again, we're now in in talks of the large Mobile operator right now and I think we're going to be doing that. We're going to be using them And they're gonna be using our technology to move money cross-border So I think it's very exciting in the months to come All right. Whoo. Thank you. I used to work for carrier phone care company called Singapore telecom and I used to stalk CEO on and senior management on Twitter and I worked with soft bank So I used to you know stalk mr. Masayoshi son because they already call soft bank, right? so all these I've been Tweeting for years, but I Still think My better bet is to convince physical mom and dad shops and get one shops On board accepting Bitcoin cash I never thought we get back to the street to do this again We used to do with Russia back in the day, but yeah, I think that's a better bet All right, I'm gonna ask you guys to wrap us up and tell us one thing you want us to do as We leave here today to further adoption of Bitcoin cash. You get to tell us just to do one thing All right, who wants to go first? Give somebody else Bitcoin cash boom And one millionth Denomination to be called as cash There we go Everybody friends tell your family tell your mother tell your father tell your dog tell your cat everybody and don't just tell about it Set them up with a Bitcoin wallet and show them how to use it It's been a cup take a couple moments out of your day and show them how to use it So that's the next step. There you go. Thank you. Roger. I guess mine. Mine is really just for wallet implementers If you have a wallet and you don't implement bit 47 yet get in contact with one of us we're gonna form an implementer working group to You know help help get this get this thing deployed Awesome. Thank you very much. Use this Bit 47 so definitely echo the sentiment from these others Personally one of the things you can do for your own social group is when you go out to dinner and someone owes you money Don't take fiat. They have to pay you back in Bitcoin cash and that Pay them in Bitcoin cash that works too. So it's like oh, I'm gonna pay you back for that Here's some Bitcoin cash or oh man. I covered dinner. You owe me ten bucks Man send that to me in Bitcoin cash and start changing your social social group and encourage them to do the same Whoo round of applause for a panel. Thank you very much. Thank you