 So good afternoon everyone and many thanks for joining this webinar today. My name is Efe Celtidio and I will be the host of today's webinar focusing on teaching in natural and cultural places. In this webinar we will try to understand what teaching and learning outside actually is, yet a better understanding of the practicalities as well as the pedagogical considerations that come with it, by focusing on teaching that takes place in nature and in cultural places like a museum. I will also have the opportunity to discuss about recent research concerning the students outcomes and the speaker of today will share with us the relevant experience of the Nordic countries and will present evidence from research and practice. Without further ado I would like to introduce Karen Barford who is a senior lecturer and the research leader in outdoor studies at the VIA University College of Denmark at the Department of Teacher Education. During the presentation of course you will have the opportunity to interact with us via the chat so please feel free to share your questions and comments and we will make sure to address them by the end of the live event. Karen many thanks for being here with us the stage is yours. Thank you and welcome everybody. I'm so impressed of so many people joining this webinar from so many different Turkey. It really makes me feel part of a community so thank you. I will now share my presentation with you and then I will switch to this figure so you can see me sometimes. So I hope you will understand my English. As you can hear I'm not a native speaker but I will try to express me in a way that it's possible for everybody to understand. Yeah so I share my presentation and we have become good in this during the COVID. So as you can see in the left corner I'm from VIA University College and that is teacher training and we are now working in the school education gateway in this platform for school education. My name is Kam Bafo and I'm PhD in outdoor studies. I'm also a research leader in the program of outdoor studies so we have a lot of research going on and I try to lead it. I try to take care of the research, the quality of the research that is done in teacher and kindergarten area in outdoors. Sorry Karin to interrupt. The way we see the presentation is in a different mode. We see also the notes and the next slide maybe you need. We don't see it in full screen. Is this better? Yes now excellent thank you. Good and that's me and my kayak. We went here and then I teach biology and physical education and we have national networks concerning working outdoors. So you can see in the last line it says head of the board of the national UDESKOLE network and I will come back to the UDESKOLE in Danish. Now this is a Danish lesson also UDE means outdoor and SKOLE means school so it's outdoor school. This is what you were promised and I will try to work with this. I will try to see if we can get around because it's a lot in about 45 minutes but I will start talking about what do we mean with outdoor outside the classroom and then I will draw on the experience from the Nordic countries. You know in Scandinavia we have a strong tradition of teaching and working outdoors with the pupils and I do hope that you will write your comments and if you had any remarks or discussions in the chat and then we will take a look at it afterwards. So we can see this place-based this outdoor as an umbrella and under this umbrella as Knapp he wrote it in 2013 there are maybe I should move this one can I do this whoa then there are many different ways and understandings of working outside the classroom. In the right corner you can see it's the outdoor adventure outdoor activities outdoor education path with the kayaks with rope skipping then we have more place-based teaching where you where the place means a lot it's very common in history we have visits at museum we have community projects, experiential education, nature, kindergarten, forest schools and so on and so on. So when we when we work in this field it's important for us to say what is it actually we're talking about oh and now I can't change mine yeah so when we say we work outdoors or outside what is it is it outside like under the blue sky or the gray sky this could be when we work on school grounds with the pupils in parks and in nature but maybe outdoor or outside teaching also is outside the school grounds but could be inside as if we go inside a museum so when we leave the school we it doesn't mean that we need to be under the blue sky maybe we will go into a church to an art museum or visiting people some people also say well if it's outside then it could be outside the curriculum like extra curricula that it could concerning not the place but also the content or is it just a pedagogical way where we work outside the teacher center pedagogy so it's not the teacher in the center but the activities and the learning process of the pupils as you can see on the picture so today when we work with this field it's outside the school grounds but it can also be inside in museums so it both when we are outside under the blue sky and some of the research concerns school grounds parks and nature but it also inside like in museum it's not outside the curriculum this webinar concerns what's inside the curriculum what should the pupils learn in school and then it has also something to do the pedagogy are you happy okay yes everything is good Karen you can understand me or hear me or please write yes you hear you perfectly that's great I will continue my presentation and if you um you can also raise your hands or anything if you start to get bored then I will speed up I'll share the presentation again and see if it's in a good way yeah it's still like this good so Simon Beams Peter Higgins and Robin Nichols from the University of Edinburgh have been working about where do we go when we go outdoors and they say well we can go very close to the school on the school grounds we can go into the local neighborhood and we can go on day excursions or in residential expeditions overnight stay and this webinar concerns when we are at the school grounds or in the local neighborhood maybe on day excursions so this is not what we're talking about today it's not like week long trips in the desert with rucksack and less food and so on this is how do we teach when we take the pupils out during every day school day and for this we use the pedagogical model designed by Arne Nicolaisen-Joel in 2010 that we have translated in this way so if you start in the upper left corner it says classrooms activities, paper and computer based versions of the world and then there is a dotted arrow between what we work with indoors and what we work with outdoors because when we teach outdoors it's nothing extra it's just another way of teaching exactly the same curricula elements but it has implication on forms of knowledge so we use with the pupils we work with the pupils bodies their senses there's activities in another way as we do indoors but there's a double arrow so what we learn outdoors when we teach outdoors what the pupil learns they can use indoors and vice versa what they work with indoors they can use outdoors and here we can either use the school surroundings as a learning area arena that is a place to learn but it can also be a source of knowledge things that we learn about let's have an example if you in biology learn something about whales you know the very big very very big fish like animals in the sea you can go outside in the the school and you can paint them in full size on the ground here you use the place as a learning arena it's just a place where there's a lot of space but you can also go somewhere where they have a skeleton from a whale and then you can use the school surroundings as a source of knowledge because you need to go to the place where the skeleton are yeah so when you go outdoors you can see in down it says then you will cooperate with a local society maybe you will go to the church or to the mosque or wherever and talk to the imam or the priest or the local farmer or anybody yeah and then there is an arrow pointing towards the left corner saying well but when you choose to teach outdoors then it will have consequences for your pedagogy so you will use more practical inquiry based and problem solving approaches to your teaching because it makes no sense to make the take the pupils outdoors and then just make them sit and talk to them you can do that indoors because you have the blackboard or the computers and so on but outdoors the pupils need to be practical they need to work with these problem solving approaches they need to work with in creative creating and playful approaches and when the pupils work like this when you plan your teaching like this it will have implication for the learning theories how do the pupils learn they will learn by using their body and their senses they will learn by communicating talking to each other collaborating and when they work like this they will form the a holistic human both their head what they know their hand and their heart what they mean I have done research with teachers that work a lot outdoors and I ask them try to formulate try to tell me why do you work outdoors and they said so they said it's because we want to form a holistic human and to form this human being to form them pupils with their minds on their hands on their heart on then we need to work with their body and senses we need them to learn by collaborating by talking together by trying to solve problems together and if they need to do this they will learn by their body and their senses and then we need to take them outdoors so actually the teachers they didn't start by taking the pupils outdoors because outdoors is good they started the teachers that I made my research upon Danish teachers they say we want to form a holistic a child a child with head heart and hands and then being outdoors is the best way to do it so it's like the other way around for the teachers yeah so this is a pedagogical model that you can use when you have to express why you're going out because we don't go out just to go out we go out because we have aims and wants the pupils to develop in a certain direction here is from a recent study where it says according to I don't know if you can see my arrow here but I point with it according to the respondents museum-based learning can affect both student and teacher creativity especially in the aspects of insight and inspiration that generate new ideas and add the variety of solutions that students can come up with when solving a problem so this is a study upon museum-based learning and it says more or less the same as the pedagogical model now I have to click here no yeah but it's not only about the place where you go this picture is from the net and from future learn here you see a museum pedagogue talking to the children the children stays passively here and listen so what if you want to affect creativity inside inspiration new ideas you also have to take into account the approach that you have at the museum or outdoors in nature or anywhere outside the classroom uh john quay wrote in this journal of outdoor and environment education that he argued that the thing still this is a difficult word for me distinctiveness of outdoor education lies in neither a body of knowledge in the content nor skills or practices process but in a deeper level of educational understanding which emphasizes ways of being so when we go outdoors it's not only about the content or what you can do but what it makes us discuss what should education do why do we educate the pupils we don't educate them just so they can a lot of have a lot of knowledge upon ancient times no we need them to have this educational understanding why are we here as human and what should we do I know this is very philosophical but this is also a webinar we really need to um work on the high lines too so here are two different approaches to learning in nature here on the left you see one where we copy the same approach as we have indoor so we have tables the pupils must sit in the certain direction and they look at the blackboard so actually the only thing that they will uh do here is they will learn the same maybe and then they would freeze and think and maybe they get wet if it rains to the right you see an approach where the pupils are in essentially sensory and bodily um interaction with nature they are also together as a group so this is another approach so if we go into nature I will argue that we need to use the possibilities and the specialities the special things and approaches that we can use when we are outdoors instead of just copying the things that we do when we are indoors so it's not only about the place it's also what approach do we have to uh teaching outdoors and here I will recommend if I don't know how good your German is but this is a German film of Lernen im Leben, how to learn in in life, Bausenschule, that's German and means learning outside and you can see in this this is just a picture of the video how the pupils they actually work with their books but they are also concentrating they are experiencing they are trying to get new knowledge by being at at this museum maybe I should move this one um and Isfraelian group of researchers Bamberger and Tal they made this study of learning in a personal context levels of choice in a free choice learning environment in science and natural history museums so this is about museum learning and they said well the pupils um no I'd say something else the teacher can have different approaches to teaching in a museum that the pupils can be given different choice constituents constituents that's difficult one too so um who choose which topic you work with who choose where to go the space who choose the objects that the pupils have to work with how much time do they have who can they work with is it that they can go and ask the teacher is it possible that the museum the people at the museum they can make interaction with them choose to let the pupils can choose to make interaction with them can they choose to make interaction with other pupils and in which order do they have to work with a task and then Bamberger and Tal they worked with this study where they said okay if there are no choices for the pupils if they can't choose anything about topic space object time interaction or order then they just have to follow the instructions given by the teacher then the learning outcome will be lower than if they are giving at least some choices then there are different levels of limited choice maybe the pupils can choose how long time they work with this thing the with the tasks or in which order and then there is the free choice visit I don't know if you have ever been with pupils at the museum with no limits no topic they can go everywhere they want they can look at every object they just have to finish to lunch they can choose to interact with each other and there's no order and this is the less a fair way of making a museum visit which is actually also not a very good idea if you want them to learn anything so Bamberger and Tal concluded in this store in this study where they had I don't remember how many but a lot of different classes at the museum they said okay if there are a certain level of choice for the pupils then the learning outcome will be largest so you don't need to make it very very very strict and instructional you don't need to make it totally less a fair and free but you need to give them at least some degrees of choice something they can choose to make this visit a learning experience for pupils are there any comments for this no not yet not yet okay it's good with a little break huh yeah it's not always like this in this recent research an undergrade graduates motivation following a sue experience this research group Heim and Holt took the students to a sue and they said while others have reported that structured assessment and chapter owns may limit the learning opportunities that's the no choice visit yeah while others have reported that structured assessment and chapter owns may limit the learning opportunities and interest of student visiting informal learning settings our students participate in in the most structured group benefited in multiple aspects of motivation just as much as students in the free choice learning group so it's not always like this these authors conclude that it's because being in a sue it's so motivating it's with all these animals and all these exciting tasks but at least also we me as researcher I can't always say that it's always so that they need these free choices because they are also researchers saying well it's not always like this but at least mostly it's like this so how do we work with these free choices because then we have indeterminate situations because we will have situations where we were me where you as teachers don't know exactly what is going on but as bista says the the pedagogical researchers from the Netherlands he says off and pedagogical philosopher uh yeah bista he says if you always know what is the result of education you can lose the aim of education because the aim is not to make small copies of us of me at least not and small copies of people who only know the same as you know so we will need some uncertainty in the learning process and then we will need indeterminate situations and simon beams and mike brown have been have written this book adventurous learning a pit get a pedagogy for changing world because the pupils that we teach now they need to be in a changing world so one um one approach for us as teachers are that multiple courses of action should be available for students to pursue that there's not one right answer to the task that we will ask them there are open situations there are some choices of importance for them to to do during the teaching lessons the lessons oh yeah now we will turn to something else are you ready for this because what are the qualities of being outdoors to the left you can see uh one of my courses in outdoor education where we are cooking outdoors there's a lot of sensory um experiences we are cooking apples pancakes up in the corner you can see some mushrooms that we have been picked and to the right is the one of our local museums this museum is about ships wrecks you know ships that um what you call it when they they can't sail anymore and then they go down on the bottom of the sea and these are very old sailing ships and you can see them in here and then the sea is very close so here you will see the some sensory qualities and you will see some qualities where what's in the museum is connected to what is just outside the museum so it's not when I take my students here they they don't just have to be inside the museum they also have to experience the neighborhood of the museum because that's also one of the qualities paid up yeah we answered his name is down here he made this model of uh qualities in outdoor teaching or outdoor education and he said okay there will be some sensory and exploring qualities the pupils will use their senses but they will also explore other things in the world they will move their bodies there are some physical and motor qualities they are not just sitting they have to walk around maybe they have to lift something maybe they have to climb under things they are also very often some manual and productive qualities if you're going to if you're going to make your own food if you're going to make the fire if you're going to run down here and write a poem concerning the wild water whatever then you have to produce something you have to work with your hands which is manual and then there are often many social and verbal qualities of course if the approach is that the teacher stands in the middle out in nature and talk to the pupils you will not have so many social and verbal qualities but if you take the pedagogical model and say well the pupils have to work inquiry based they have to talk together they have to work in groups then there will be social and verbal qualities and these are all connected together when you're outdoor so is it really so that one cure just going outdoors fits all that outdoor teaching will improve your teaching by enhancing physical activity build motivation give you better knowledge more social awareness more less bullying no because this is in Danish because it's a very bad word this book is about very bad education the education your teaching will not become good just because you go outdoors your teaching will be good because you're a good teacher and because you use the possibilities that you will have outdoors you will use all the experiences you will use the the approaches that are different when you are outdoors so this say this book was said also poor teaching is not a common pedagogical concept it is a currently important concept as it sharpens the awareness of what it takes to achieve good teaching also outdoor teaching needs development and quality so now it's your turn please here in the sunken ships yeah here in the chat to write what is really bad education what should you avoid as teachers when you go outdoors so please don't hesitate to write something i'll start anybody else who knows what should we avoid when we are outdoors avoid lecturing yeah not finished yet this type they have to be a sort of structure yeah not yeah that's true this type is in this passion yeah i see also comments regarding about the need for planning to have learning activities and not just have this free time that you mentioned also yeah yeah i will i will come back to something about planning yeah avoid going along with a large group kids yeah yeah make boundaries yeah so that's something about safety to avoid screaming yeah that's true scaffolding all students yeah it's so nice to to see all your comments and you know good teaching outdoors is maybe not very much different from good teaching indoors because it's some of this experience and the objectives and planning and misbehavior all these things are also issues that we work with when we work outdoors so please here is a picture of me teaching outdoors and what can you see what i'm doing wrong here this is me uh standing there so please write in the chat what am i doing wrong on this picture i think it's okay because it's me who is wrong yeah i'm lecturing i'm not at the same level i'm not interacting yeah teacher center teaching yeah that's true standing students yeah i'm also take yeah you have them against the sun yeah that's true i have them against the sun you take like glass yeah yeah uh i'm so happy to say it's an old picture you can see they are sitting still they are freezing it's in danmark it's always cold in danmark and uh there's a person uh in the back she's even try she started to do something as with her back to me there's somebody sitting here with an axe and i tell you this is not a picture taken because of uh it's not instructed this is just a real picture i'm so ashamed but the good that you can see what you shouldn't do so now it's time for a two minute break please don't check your emails but stretch your body and mind and if you want to because i'm a PE teacher i will make a short program for you so you can stand up yeah and you can move your shoulders and you can stretch up to sun one arm another arm one arm another arm you can take your arms out wide because it will take this away come up here open open and in your knees and up and knees and up and all knee yeah and then jump side to side yeah i'm ready again and then we will take our shoulders up and down up and down up and down up and down and our heads okay let's take the few slides left yeah so this is my husband fishing actually if we go to uudskåle then the museum pedagog Heinz said the children need time usually more than one visit to become orientated to a museum so when we work with uudskåle we work regularly out by outside and that can be one or a half day per week that's a lot it's a scandinavian or nordic term in germany they call it pausensschule as i showed you on the film and we go in nature to cultural places and in society so it's curriculum based teaching in elementary school and we have elementary school from six to sixteen where we are taking advantage of environments outside the school buildings including school grounds on a regular basis and here you can see different examples we have focus on place and pedagogy and we work with these collaborative action centered experiential inquiry based and thematic learning processes we had a great study where we had 18 classes working outdoors and the parallel classes you know the same class but with another teacher working indoors and we could see that not much in english 37% of the time they were in nature and 28% of the time they were in cultural places and but they also used a lot of time in the school area so going outdoors can be many places in this study we showed and i need to explain this figure this is from self-determination theory different kind of motivation going to school so it's not time on the x-axis it's different motivations and the red line is the control classes those who worked indoors so but you can also see they're really spreading the numbers but those who are working indoors compared to when we started the teaching which is at zero then all the ways all four ways of motivation were lowered so these students they get more and more bored going to school in all kinds of motivation but the pupils that were outdoors they did not lose the motivation being in school you know it's a main problem that during the year the students lose their motivation but these students that were outdoors they were measured in the beginning of the year and when the year were finished and they did not lose their motivation while those that were indoors they lost their motivation their intrinsic motivation their identified and introjected motivations and the external motivation that was one result from the teacher out project yeah it's the same i'll just the other result that we had were that depending on where the education outside the classroom took place they were moving their bodies more or less the yellow ones are the sedentary behavior they were sitting still less time when they were in nature than when they were at the museums they had more light physical activity when they were in the green areas you can see they have more more and they had a more moderate to vigorous physical activity when they were in the green areas so it seems if we only look at how much physical activity these students are doing then nature is the best place to be okay to teach them compared to school grounds it's not a big difference but still they are moving more light physical activity than they are doing when they are having physical education in school which is a bit strange but they are oh here is a picture of pupils running i have taken them outdoors and you can see this is totally panic for me as a teacher because some students are running into the forest with no goals some are running back but very close to the sea one is freezing they doesn't seem to have any aims there's no structure and no control so when we're talking about bad outdoor education this will show us some of the barriers that we will have as teachers. Fandík Veselius made this study of barriers to outdoor teaching and they said one barrier is there's a lack of a formal status of outdoor learning in teacher educational practice so when i go out with my students my colleagues say oh you're going outdoors and having a bonfire again or something like that it has no formal status many teachers have no confidence in their own outdoor teaching expertise and many teachers said it difficult to get started so these are the three main barriers many teachers say we have lack of time we have lack of communal structure they are also saying we fear losing control and managing children's behavior some of you also wrote this in the chat and yeah if we look of the lack of confidence in your own teaching outdoor teaching expertise because i cannot work with you and say well you need to make conscious decision to devote time to establish outdoor learning because that should be your leader but i can say well some of the things you can do is that you can familiarize with outdoor learning you can start take one hour out or half an hour and then it's really important to work with the organization and rules with the habits with the pupils habits with your habits so the pupils know what are we going to do what is the aim of going out that you have worked with the papers they need to bring out that you have told them when do we have lunch break that you have worked with what are we going to learn and these are some of the barriers you can work with so you lose your lack of confidence so you get confidence in your own outdoor teaching expertise one of the things you can work with and this is this film again Bauschen Schuhn Lernen in Leben where they said you need to leave responsibilities to the pupils they need to know where to meet they need to know how to behave and in this film the pupils ask each other so one pupil say to the other did you bring your rainclothes did you bring your outdoor book and then they said did you bring your brain and i really love this has to do here and thereby did you bring your brain so maybe we should conclude that good education outdoors is not very much different from good education indoors you still need introductions you still need aims you still need activities and feedback to the pupils the pupils still need experiences and time for reflections this is an outdoor reflection book that the i always all my students get this book so and you can see it's hard back so they can write in it and we always take pictures so we need to have time for reflection upon what the activities and we need to have strong relations between teacher and pupils so now it's time for questions i need to go up and see anything scaran well i see that in the comments i see that participants were very interested in everything that you described and explained so thank you very much for that i saw a comment popping up from isabel well highlighting actually the number of students per per class or per school what's what's your advice here related to organizing learning outside the classroom if you have a big number of students for instance in your class yeah i think there are very many national differences here because in Denmark we have only up to 28 pupils in a class and if you it also depends on where you go because if you go in a nearby environment if you go just down in the schoolyard or at the sports place if you as an example have language at the sports field maybe you can be just by yourself because you're so close to the toilets and you're so close to to the office where the people at the at the school works if you have to go further you always have to need to the need to be at least two either you have some parent helpers maybe you have a museum pedagogy that is there as an adult too maybe you have a help you have i don't know if you have it but we usually have some student helpers or something good to go to a class pedagogy so there are many different solutions to this but you should never go alone and you should always have a mobile phone that the pupils are instructed to use too because if something happened to you somebody else has to call for help so there needs to be a number they can dial to the school and so on so um i would actually i would say that you could just be the same amount of adults as as you are indoors if you're just in the very close neighborhood and if you have worked with the routines when i do like this you all go to the wall or when i wave i once was in latvia and there was a teacher she just raised her hand and then all the pupils came i don't know how she made that but really yeah can you share how you plan an activity outdoor how you start the planning do you have a checklist do you work alone um when i start my planning i always think of what is the topic what is it that we are working with just now and what outdoor activity can enhance the learning process so if we work with verbs you know announced and different words tree leave go out and find these things or uh if we work with i can run i can hop we go out and do this if this is what they need to learn if they if they need to learn mathematics and they work with numbers then i say well you make can you find anything with a symbol of five and it can be leaves and so on so uh i think what should they learn and how can this going outdoors make them learn it better and then um i either make the activity myself or i find them on the net or i find something on the internet that i make a bit different sometimes if if you are a bit unsure you can take some of the tasks that you usually do indoor you know maybe maybe you have um a task where there's a lot of words and a lot of things they need to find here and then need to make lines then you can copy them take them outdoors and make the pupils run from one thing to another so you can also start by taking some of the tasks that you do indoor and make them bigger is a field study necessary before the action with what is a field study i suppose that ever means that if the teacher needs to visit the place before just to check what the also the safety issues the possibilities offered by the space itself you always need to go there first but when you have been there you don't need to go there again so uh um yeah um and also i see a question from an ass if there is if you have an interesting website or resource or repository in general of ideas related to uh teaching outside the classroom uh do you have resource to share uh just to know mention also here that the current has included in the presentation some links and some uh resources for further reading so you will receive the power point um we will share the power point online as as we promised and also if you need to the dive a bit deeper on the topic and hear more from Karen if you want to uh learn more about the practicalities of organizing learning outside the classroom we warmly invite you to join the MOOC which started last Monday the teaching outside the classroom MOOC i shared the link on the chat and there you will find also videos with Karen sharing more practical ideas and suggestions about what you're asking about organizing teaching outside the classroom so make sure you join it and benefit from these free online professional development opportunities maybe i should show some of the tasks that i i can i didn't claim this so i have to get them over here if it's okay will you yes i see some questions in the meantime are parents sometimes allowed to participate in outdoor education activities yes i think as Karen mentioned it's also recommended to involve parents in some outdoor activities and make them be your help helpers in these outside learning activities but of course guidance is needed yeah this is uh we were working with whales and and with math and we were working with scale you know how big is a whale actually and what is the mathematics behind and then we went to the beach and they had to make them in real size so they had to measure they have to work together the pupils and so on this is uh this is a game we made with small wood glasses with small insects that they have to run as fast as possible this was actually in physical education because the the small animals has to come first we we really work with a lot of of different things and they always have this booklet where they write in and and have the ideas written yeah so um one more question related to the weather Karen is it uh is outside learning considered only for during the well autumn or springtime because of weather restrictions or is it something that we can do also in winter what's your advice here that's depends on which country you come from before but um usually i say when we work in Denmark and you know it's a northern hemisphere it's really really bad weather sometime we um the pupils are used to have good clothing son so what i work with is that they need to i need to plan activities where they are physically active like when we start the day we like go fast for a walk for a quarter of an hour so they will be warm then the activities is not things where they have to ride or sit the with flowers or something it's more like running or moving a stone or something and and then i have some um games to i i have um a lot of ideas with small games that i can use so uh like here we have the crowds a bird and here we have another kind of birds the owls very clever ones so oh there's a lot of kids here there's a lot of kids here and i'm in the middle and then i say something you know depending on what we're working with um this is a book and if it's right then the owls they have to run and catch the crowds and if it's wrong this is a bird it's not a bird then the crowds have to get the owls and so on so i have some running games that i can yeah i can use during the day so clothing um that the pupils are moving their body that you are aware of that they don't stand in the wind and then we have hats um you know warm hats for everybody that somebody gave us for free i won't say who but somebody gave us a lot of hats so you can use them on the kids yeah and one question from Iro from Greece from what dates you start taking students out yeah you know we have this strange habit in Denmark that from they are very very small they sleep in the cribs outdoors so we have uh we are world champions in outdoor kindergarten kids are outside in Denmark and when they come to school they get more or less indoors so it it's more that the oldest one they're sitting there with their computers all day it's um younger kids are outside and they are outside three or four hours per day in kindergarten in Denmark you know so i see people also are very interested in activities that you can plan outside so i think that this webinar currently provides a great inspiration for people to start searching more about it so i would very kindly redirect you to the to the MOOC that i mentioned earlier because there you will find yeah great idea served and also idea served among teachers who practice outside learning already so uh we we we learn from each other we inspire each other there are many great practices taking place in schools in across europe so we really want to serve them and learn from each other so please make sure that you can uh follow and join this opportunity as well um if there are not any other questions which i don't see now in the chat um i would like to yeah thank you Karin very much for this very interesting presentation if you have of course anything else to say any last words please please do uh otherwise i think we are perfectly on time on closing this webinar it's all always a good idea to close two minutes before time i i'll uh i'll just say that my last slide was that now you all had to reflect a bit what was new to me what did i learn what will i use during the next few months in my own practice so i hope for all the kids in europe that it's that you have a lot of good ideas i know you're good teachers because you joined in for learning something more but still we can all improve our practice and uh so thank you for sharing your questions thank you for joining in and let's get outside with the kids excellent thank you karin thank you all for joining have a lovely evening and keep up the great job