 Welcome back to the breakfast on PLOS TV Africa. Now our second conversation will be on field subsidy. The federal government says it will cater for field subsidy in 2022 for the first six months and afterwards there's going to be a total deregulation of the downstream oil and gas sector. That's what we're going to talk about now. The big question will be, can we survive? Can Nigerians survive six months without the subsidy? We do have Nika Goulay on standby who would be helping us understand the dynamics of this conversation. Good morning Mr. Nika Goulay. Good morning. Thank you for having me. Thank you for joining us. All right so let's go straight to the crux of the matter. What do you, this is not the first time we're having this conversation. What are your thoughts field subsidy removal for the first six months of 2022 and deregulation of the downstream oil and gas sector? Okay thank you very much. My first thought is the foreign government led by President Obama in Bahá'í in their campaign committee in the 2020 general elections, they categorically told all Nigerians that they were going to do away with fuel subsidy, the criminal enterprise. And they were right. If you thought ever I'm touching it, that this government is down 20, 12, 7 years in office, they have not done anything with the fuel subsidy. Neither have they repaid the attorneys, which is the cost of the fuel subsidy. Last week I was speaking with you on this challenge. And I was talking about Nigerian official aid crisis. And the office, who gave aid rights or deal with this crisis. And this is one of them. We're talking about fuel subsidy because we have 40 families, with a combined refining capacity of 450,000 hours of crude oil per day. It is one of the Nigerian's requirements for petroleum products. If the government has break down in their first one year or two years in office, and they did something about the refineries, either by leasing them out, or actually selling them out, to invest us, completing their money, repair the refinery, and they started refining the crude oil of petroleum products. We'll be talking about fuel subsidy today. The second thought I have with that, the government has said in 2022, they will pay subsidies for the first few months, and then there will be total deregulation of the downstairs sector. And I say, what happened? Why do I say so? I say so because the government has been thinking, the committee has been thinking here that they were going to deregulate the downstairs sector, not with any subsidy. So remember very well, in 2020, this government actually closed off. They looked us in the face, and they said fuel subsidy has now been stopped. This is what I said, I said to the Minister of State that petroleum itself, we need to make sure that the PTRs and the PTF, that is Petroleum Equalization Fund, and the petroleum product pricing and refinery is actually two proper agencies that has to provide the fuel subsidy. That was crap. A Minister of State of Petroleum, with Nigerians in the face, has said no more subsidies for them to continue to pay fuel subsidy. So I don't believe them, I don't trust them. And I know that in 2022 and 2023, fuel subsidy will be removed off. Now let me answer the second part of your question. Do not say that if fuel subsidy may be downstairs sector is deregulated, that is the Nigerian economy going to survive. And my answer is a bit like this. A bit like this because the petroleum product that the productive sector of the economy is using. It's already deregulated. The digital that is used by mass competes for equal use is generator to factory. It's already deregulated. Cleosing that is used by the core is already deregulated. It's not any time passed by a petrol station. And I looked at the explanation displayed on the board. A team paying a shame to be a Nigerian, because on that board there will be PMS, which is petrol 165. Then you will see digital 300 or something. And you will see current being 300 or something. You are asking yourself, what kind of country is this? What kind of country that will be roping from the floor to pay a visit? And why do I say that? The people who are using petrol, they are the big men. Go to any estate, any estate in Nigeria. Where big men live. You will see three, four, five, six, that number of cars outside the accident. They are the most consuming petrol. The most is when you are leaving mainland, going to Thailand, they are going to point you to other places. These bodies are using diesel. They are talking about Nigeria's economy not surviving. It is actually the big men that we now have to pay the white price for the fuel that they are using in their cars. And let me tell you one thing. We are talking about subsidy. The government will say, oh no, any time we bring it across or subsidize it, we put it across the border. When we never reach out to these, we have to throw a stone at the market rate. Ask yourself, who are our neighbors? For me, I don't have any chart, I don't have any rule. But I saw a good economy. Yes, they are paying the market price for petrol and their surviving. So how much of Nigeria is the biggest economy? We pay market price of petrol and we don't survive. Because you should be in the town. And I don't. I want you to speak on what the, if this is true and the Nigerian government actually goes ahead with this, what would this mean for Nigerians with regards to the price of petrol? And also, are these things being spoken about with expectations that a dangote refinery will be ready in 2022 as it has been projected? So, okay, you could respond to that. The mind should not be clear. So let me say it, of course, not on a family. You said if you talk to the blue, what would it mean for Nigeria? Yes, with regards to the dangote refinery. Yes, the price of petrol for Nigerians and of course the dangote refinery. Okay, so if you talk to the blue today, is this government's promise for which to remove fuel subsidy? What it is going to mean for Nigerians is that about two to three million Nigerians at least. No, eight of these people that is conscious of media with the text and we divert that money to education, to health care, infrastructure, to security, to those things that Nigerians are some people of very species. There is actually no point. So it's decided, thank you, for trying to change 20 cars at a different price for their own petrol. Yes, Mr. Agole. Mr. Agole, you can explain what you're doing. The Agoles want to say, oh, if we remove fuel subsidy, now we are not at all. We remove fuel subsidy on people. What is the spectrum of the fuel? What is the use of the productive economy? So there is no amount at all. Yes, Mr. Agole, what I'm asking, we're out of time actually, but what I'm asking is, will Nigerians be able to afford petrol if subsidy is taken out? It's currently 162 to 165. If we go ahead and take out subsidy, what are the chances of and increase the price of petrol for Nigerians, every Nigerian, and is there a possibility that they will actually make a change and make this possible? Okay, fine. Ideally, we need to end that now. But let me tell you something. I don't know the number of cars that are in Nigeria, but let us assume that 10 million. If there are 10 million cars in Nigeria that consume petrol, can assure you that 9.9, that means 9 million or 900,000 of those cars be on a big mess. I don't know who are anywhere who are using the petrol acts. People in Nigeria, they don't use the petrol act. Those are the people who consume petrol. You know? So, they should be able to pay for their petrol and they can take things down where they live. They may actually move with the petrol. And every bit of petrol that they consume, they use that money to repair the roads, proper transportation for the masses, and all of that. So, they are letting this big way to pay for the government with the retail money to provide for the masses. It's a given in the reverse. But each money went for the masses. So, if you died in the last five, between 200 and 200, you will have to see people who own more than two cars. The poor is your only vote people who work hard to stop. What example do you have on the way? Well, it's a really, really important conversation. And with regards to your point on persons having more than two cars and more than three cars, we must also remember the failure of the public transportation system in this discussion. But unfortunately, we would have to reschedule and talk about this on a later date because we're out of time. But thank you very much, Nika Goulay. Your perspective is always very interesting. And we thank you for joining us on the breakfast this morning. You too, sir. And this is where we will be wrapping up. I'm a little under the weather, to be honest. Sorry. But if you missed out on any of these conversations, remember where to catch up. It's simply at Plus TV Africa on Facebook and Instagram. Stay with our YouTube channel at Plus TV Africa and the Plus TV Africa lifestyle. I am Osal Gi. Ogboa. And I am Merci beaucoup. Do have a great day.