 Welcome everybody back here to Segal Talk at the Markney Segal Theater Center at the Graduate Center CUNY. They're still the University of New York here in the middle of Manhattan in Midtown which is still empty. So many stores are leaving. Just yesterday went out and tried to get some electric supplies for a lambit. We're closed overnight the stores and you can see there are lots of signs of recovery especially here. We are still in a moment of uncertainty and this is especially of course too for the performing arts in New York City. It's been devastating what it has done to artists, many many artists, big spoken word artists, actors, directors, dancers but also for musicians especially it's been no possibility to to really perform yesterday we heard John from the Great Cartman Music Center what they did in the musical store fronds. I say it's an extraordinary activity that they put up. We heard from Bob Wilson last week when he's planning out in watermelon his work and so I think it's time they'll be highlight of what's being done now. Last year we were in the middle of a shock the immediate aftermath of this and we spoke to over 150 artists in 50 countries and now it's a big question. Bastun, what to do, what shall we do now and there are many initiatives and there are many great artists, curators, administrators, producers working and with us today we have one of the leaders in the field we think of the musician and Mr. Petzar Mushevich and he is with us. So Petzar first of all thank you for taking out the time to be with us. Petzar has performed a virtual solo recitals for 92nd Street Wise, Spoleto Festival, the USA Maverick Concerts and the Orchestra of St. Luke's Park Festival, the Schubert Club in St. Paul's and concerts by Schupper and Mozart with Atlanta and Billings symphonies in this epitemic season though. So Petzar is a musician, a very very accomplished one and our heart also reaches out for you guys it's an unimaginable how it means not to perform, not to how to rehearse for yourself, it's a it's a devastating and once was last September or November and a concert on the street, a great band was playing, it's also been fantastic musicians and they said this is the biggest concert you see at the moment in New York City and they were happy to be out there in their jackets and so it's incredible. But Petzar also in this contemporary art world where we live in the phase, the moment after postmodernism in a way, he is a hybrid artist and will not only difference his artist work as being at the piano creating scores and creating music, he also is an artistic administrator and arts administrator and he sees that as a significant part of his work as Joseph Boyce in a way said that the idea of the social sculpture, the structure all work we do should be artistic, should follow artistic work and it's especially true and he's at the famous and significant Baryshnikov Art Center in New York which has done so much for the community and Baryshnikov has created something that I think really shines strongly in the way he's also a collaborator but Wilson so he also felt you know we should have a space where artists can show work and courage and residencies and he put a lot of work behind it and also was able to raise funds and we are truly grateful for him. But Petzar also is at the Tipper Prize Art Center in Montana and we really want to know how he combines all these worlds and what he does in the time of Corona. He curates and produces also film shoots for dozens of musicians I think he was just in Boston yesterday or like two days ago and right now he's as he's developing his cooking skills and and he's sharing it also online so Petzar welcome where are you at the moment? Thank you great to be here I'm in my apartment in New York City in Chelsea where I've been for most of the last year which has been very interesting it's usually my life consists of a lot of traveling and I have to say it's been kind of a joy to be at home I've been a bit of a guilty pleasure to be at home but in the last two months or so I've started traveling and I my first trip was actually 2110 I played with Billings Symphony and actually they had 20% of audience in the house and that was amazing it was like finding water in desert to go walk out of the stage and see people it was it was beautiful so you know we've all missed that but I've been very lucky that I've been working constantly the whole pandemic filming first very grassroots in my apartment and then as the pandemic went on both for my own work as a pianist and then my work at Berserker Art Center and a tip and rise we started to ask ourselves how can we make this more creative and more really multidisciplinary and really you know if we're asking you to watch something besides listening what can we contribute in the visual way which is interestingly it has always been a great interest of mine I do believe that concert is a multidisciplinary experience because just like when you go to to eat in a restaurant before you had a bite you walked in you saw the design of the place you saw the layout you saw the lighting you smelled something and you know good 30% of your impression was already created before you even saw the menu and I think the same thing happens in concert halls so both tip and rise and Berserker Art Center in very different ways are experiential in that sense that you really get a full tip and rise it's a 12,000 acre ranch with huge sculptures and Berserker Art Center we are in the middle of midtown so we're very aware of that you're coming from this bustling you know city and how can we create a little oasis before you even heard anything so we set out to go to artist studios to museums to interestingly designed houses and film musicians and we really invited film directors to really leave their stamp on that music I mean I really encourage directors to tell us how they see this music and and a musician and the space we're in so it's been really really fascinating hmm that's that's that's quite something in portuguese I think it was Gertrude Stein who said more you see the more you hear absolutely absolutely yeah and both both organizations I'm so proud to say that that we immediately said what can we do now what can we do now to provide paid work for the artists and be commissioning or presenting digitally or presenting archival things and giving people space to work and with these films also engaging film directors and directors of photography and audio engineers because our entire community has been as you well aware so affected by this pandemic so tell us what do you do what does it really mean what do you do at Baruchnikov and at tippet so tell us what did you do with the project and your ideas behind the vision well in both in both places I'm involved in on the programming side obviously that's my strength this is programming and in the past that involved you know programming live concerts in front of audiences and tippet rises a summer season in montana we usually have 22 or 23 concerts over five or six weeks and uh Baruchnikov art center is the opposite we usually don't have a summer season so it's a it's a year of the year and Baruchnikov art center is an arts organization that has two kind of arms of operation one is developing works meaning giving artists space to rehearse to with with their collaborators without any obligation of performing and without even any obligation to bring the the work the fruition it can be just something you want to explore you need two weeks of studio time to explore something that you may decide was terrible idea and then we also present in all three disciplines in in music dance and theater so but interestingly there there are some striking similarities even though these these two organizations are not related but they are very much uh passion of in Baruchnikov art center case of one person of michael baruchnikov and a tippet rise case of the founders peter and capy holstead so there's a very hands-on uh almost uh hospitality because it's like it's this sense of like well this is our house so welcome can i get you a drink or do you need something where are you going to sit so it's not kind of a large organization and it's it's very intimate and then the other thing that that both organizations are are passionate about is affordable ticket prices so you know that that art is really accessible to everybody at tippet rise it's ten dollars at the baruchko art center is 25 and under and often free so i think there was a very conscious decision made that that you know while art should feel like a luxury product it should not cost like a luxury product and then of course yeah sorry go ahead now i just want to say that of course the pandemic changed all this so uh in in case of tippet rise we became a year around presenter of these films and and commissioning and both organizations got it because the first thing where everything was shut down we realized that the first thing one can do is create work so at version court center we set out with commissioned eight artists right away to to do work and then the moment we were allowed to go into the space we gave them space to go in and develop those works at our studios and then interestingly we we had this concert uh scheduled for live performance in in this season uh that was uh kind of centered about fred erzhevsky's work called coming together which is a work for narrative and a group of instruments and the text comes from an inmate in attica prison who led the revolt against police brutality and then of course with all the incredibly relevant social situation that we are in and thinking and movements from black lives matter to social justice when we were shut down and you know for public performances we all decided that this has to happen so it was the it was the first uh thing we filmed in our space when we were allowed to go in and it ended up being a co-presentation between tippet rise art center and bursh core art center and five borough music festival and bay chamber concerts in main because we all felt that this was such an interesting and important work that you know we wanted to share it with as many people as possible and it was really fascinating because it was really baby steps of people trying to be together to to have seven musicians in one room amongst these very strict regulations of you know distancing and uh entering the building and then cleaning the spaces and and air filters and it was really full of all sorts of emotions the the tenderness towards making music together again and then uh fear you know we were all we didn't know and then we also uh found and engaged a pastor isaac smith who was a former inmate to be the filmmaker so it was a really really interesting project that both organizations participated in so that was that was really kind of meaningful to me so and and then of course since then we've all started to do more filming but at first it was all a real unknown wait what months was that when you did that was in september that was in september early september yeah and since september each week or each month you do create a film or a video inside version oh no uh well no there is there's been pretty much consistent activity at Bershikov art center as far as development of work and we've been so we've been uh we've commissioned artists ranging from choreographers like hall marshal and stephanie betten bland and and uh kind of media and sound artists stay blow and and so they've been creating works that we were that we filmed and then we are still in the process of presenting interspersed with archival uh films that we've been releasing and for instance this week we just released a concert that we presented i guess a couple of years ago with the tesla quartet playing quartets by shimonovsky and yannitschek and uh obviously on the smithers singing barrio sequenza that was kind of done in our sort of trade trademark of salon slash cabaret style and slightly staged so uh so there's been a fair amount of activity but obviously you know these are smaller projects because we really cannot have easily have a rehearsal with you know 10 actors or 10 dancers so it's it's been an interesting uh way to function creatively but on the other hand when you really think about it all of us always function within limitations those limitations may be spatial or geographical or financial so now just those limitations are a little tighter so you think okay i have this much playground i'm still going to play so it's been interesting so and you were releasing once a week or uh well it's been this this uh year it has been practically once once a week of something yeah and on the tip of rye side uh coincidentally we are releasing this weekend started this evening we have a little three day festival when we will release 10 films that we filmed in new york in the fall and winter in three different locations and two different locations at the menna center at the joel shapiro studio in log island city with his magnificent sculptures and uh with a great range of music with from richard good reading poetry and playing music by bach and brams and also a Mozart sonata to a world premiere by borayoun played by claire chase to you know songs sung by tyler duncan and erica switzer and violinist s alark and then ben vileman and gave cabezas playing a duo by jesse mongomery and then also playing a partita by chris rogerstone that he had commissioned so these are our kind of first um showing of these these films that we've been making and they will we will have a live conversation with some of the artists proceeding these films at 7 30 eastern time today tomorrow and sunday and then the films will remain available to watch at any time and we've just started filming for the next batch of these films and as i've said repeatedly now when i watch a tv show or a film and i see the credits at the end that they are hundreds of people now i know what they do all of this takes a lot of coordination and a lot of things that i've really learned on the job and it's been fascinating and especially looking at this first batch of films it's it's funny when you and i have think oh we filmed five people in one day that's crazy so you know you'll learn things yeah yeah it's quite it's quite uh uh a stunning to think that what a live performance with bodies in a room bodies who age at the same time often as some people point out even the heartbeat synchronizes but it's gone it's never right it's a ephemeral experience yeah now people in the room but it's filmed put in a form and maybe in a hundred years from now people will say look what people did in new york uh in the time of the pandemic and they can see it right and it's you know it's interesting because i really felt that i did not not want to pretend that this was a concept i felt like if we're making videos then let's really go that direction and let's explore what can this art form do and how can we create a different experience that's actually uh that i can with two feet on the ground ask you to watch rather than just listen so it's been a really really interesting exploration of lighting design and haze machines and sculptors and you know we're we're shooting at the noguchi museum next week which i'm very excited about which is such a beautiful space and uh you know the tip and rise is a as i said 12 000 acre ranch which is also a sculpture park and a music festival so this this marriage of visual art of all kinds and particularly sculptor sculptures and music was kind of a natural exploration for us to do both at noguchi museum and hopefully at storm king so we're really exploring those connections but then each one of those things is a is a rabbit hole of questions you know storm hill the storm king there's not a really flat space on the grass so how do you put five musicians to play you know these logistical questions and where is the sun coming from and you know how long it's going to be the shape all these things you never thought about exactly exactly but it's all so fascinating and and you know i think in so many ways especially classical music was overdue for a shake-up of how we present something uh the price certainly been high with this pandemic but i think it's great time to rethink how do we share what we want to share this amazing art form that's been around and the new work that's created today how do we share it with as many people as possible and of course the other obvious thing is just like for your program there's no more local presentation everything is global but that also means that we are all as as consumers we are overwhelmed with content and every day feel like i could watch this and i could watch national theater and i could watch this and i could so that also creates a bit of an overload and how do you select what you watch which is an interesting marketing question but in the flip sides you know you get emails from people from india and israel and saying i love that theater piece with which we with a version of we got an email from somebody from israel and we thought but it was four in the morning there you know what other numbers do you have statistics if you wanted oh i i'm so bad with numbers either they range greatly they range from hundreds to thousands depending on on the you know many many more than normally reach in a concert in the yes absolutely because both version of art center and tippet rise are very intimate venues i mean our largest venue i mean our venues at version of art center range from 60 to 220 and the tippet rises 130 or so and definitely definitely more than double and often much more than that so that is of course very exciting yeah that is it's quite some and you're going for it do you think it will be a radical change for tippet operation because that experience or do you think it's a break in between it will go back or do you feel this really changed what we are doing uh yes not change in it in a false change but this will be an additional activity there is no doubt that both of us both of these organizations will continue providing digital content as we go back to live performance because i think we've both realized that a it's another art form and b we can reach further and so i think it's a really really interesting way of sharing arts and making more you know democratically available to anybody at any time and so yes it's definitely within the missions of both organizations i believe so how did you do it staff wise did you retrain your staff or people already knew enough are you higher outside how do you do all the film work well personally i have spent my lifetime with a major philosophy that not knowing something never stopped me from doing it so i learned i asked uh it's i you know i i love to ask people so i reached out to people and you know as far as filming i knew nothing when i first a person on my piano side when everything got shut down i was interestingly at tippet rise uh doing a recording session in march recorded the kind of a Bach family album of music by Johann Sebastian Carl Philippe and Bill Friedman Bach and in this idyllic you know eight inches of snow all white at night i was the only person on the ranch which was kind of extraordinary for an urban dweller like me and then you know working with our amazing audio staff and so i flew in it was sunday i remember it was march 14th i think and i went to my favorite restaurant called chiquito in in chelsea and i sat at the bar they said well we're gonna shut down tomorrow and i was like really like this thing is really so you know in next couple of days everything shut down little by little you know sort of few weeks by few weeks all of my concerts got cancelled so my first next engagement was a recital at 92nd street why and they asked me if i would film something and i said no because i had never owned a microphone in my life my first camera i ever had was when i got my first iphone so it was not something that i was naturally interested in or i know that i was actively not interested it's just something i never did but then as everything got cancelled once the whole summer got cancelled and that was within a week or so you know everything just knocked up it was like may was cancelled june was cancelled i realized that i had to do something i would go completely crazy so i called them back and i said okay i think i want to film something so they said okay so then i asked people what should i get so i got this microphone i learned that this inimitable new york fashion that while i looked at amazon and they said that you know i could get this mic delivered in three months because of course there was a huge you know first of all issues with transportation and then you know everybody wanted to microphones and then cameras and somebody said to me oh you know h and h which is this amazing electronic store in new york they said that you can order online and then walk up and pick up through a window it was like you know illegal merchandise so i did that and i walked up you know they're five six blocks from me and it was it felt so kind of adventurous and needless to say i knew nothing what to do with this microphone but i learned and then i devised this program i changed it slightly to what from what i was going to play in person and then i thought well i'm not interested in just putting this iphone camera in one spot i want to play around with it so i set out to experiment treating the camera as an audience member and basically picking up this very tripod that i am speaking with you now on and saying would you mind if i move due to another seat so i practiced this whole spiel while i was playing and then i would speak about music i was playing and then i moved the camera and you know i filmed every day for about 15 days the whole program it was about an hour of music because i was really interested in exploring you know what can this be with the most primitive equipment i mean iphone and this microphone and so that that kind of put a germ you know put a bug in my head that to really explore and once we got to more professional equipment and obviously actually hiring film directors who know what they're doing i was really set out to to really give them freedom and ask them you know what would you do here's the music what would you do so it's been really fascinating incredible so you became a filmmaker a documentary filmmaker at your own work your producer of your own video in nothing you would have thought you know when you um i also think barish nikal when he created under i don't know how he made it happen many people try to do things like this often it didn't work out he did it and i would not think that it would be close corona time but he would be producing a massive amount of videos that it would be could be uploaded on screens to people and such a radical change we are so close to it maybe we don't even see what it means what does it mean all to you do do you feel your own software and you have something that up there do you look at the world different is something happening in your mind or is it a confirmation of what you said i always try things out or do you feel something is different you know it's so interesting on in in in essence it's the same exploration of a full experience of anything whether it's a meal i cook for my friends or it's a concert i play live or it's a concert i play for camera or i produce for camera or i present you know curate live i always think of the full experience and i am i am very interested in what does it mean besides just playing so that's one answer on the other hand it's it's so interesting because this pandemic in some ways i'll try to formulate this not to annoy everybody has done the last thing the first world needed was to was to think even more about ourselves you know constantly checking what temperature this because we already on that road of kind of self centeredness i feel like this pandemic has pushed us all a to be more or less alone and not not with many people and then live in this constant fear of like or at least for a while quite active fear like am i sick am i getting sick is did i cough because i have allergies or am i sick and and i just had this sort of annoyance because i'm really not interested in thinking about myself and but of course thinking about others was was actually challenging because i wasn't around people at least the beginning and until we really started hiring people which which was fairly soon after you know springtime springtime but still you know i've realized how my entire but gives my life fuel are other people so that's one aspect on the other side concurrently we have this what to me is probably the most important socio politically culturally movement in decades from black lives matter to social justice and all that which is the exact opposite of that so it's such an interesting time to try to kind of figure out how can we connect these things and how can we and it's something i've always been so interested in how can art be more relevant in everyday life and and to everybody how can we and i i always follow or not always but for a long time i've followed the path that food has done in this country in the last 20 or 30 years and how can we in the arts follow that path that basically the level of food has risen in all economic structures basically everybody wants to eat better and it's not only connected to once a year you go to a fancy restaurant in the suit and time so i keep thinking what can we do to to create performing arts where that's just something on a wednesday at 545 you call your friend and say hey let's see something and that's not going to kill your pocket it's going to be a great experience and you'll want more so so all of that is kind of mixed in and all all this thinking but of course now the one thing we for the moment we're making baby steps at the moment but the actual having people in the same room has it just proved to me how what an essential part audience is in the performing arts that it's a two-way street so that was that was that was one i remember when that really i was so depressed i thought that's really the only thing i want to do to be with people but i think that this digital thing has reached people and and i think we will just it'll be all the sweeter when we can be together yeah but it is you know as you said for the first for our world perhaps the first time we uncertainty for others is not in africa where there's not even enough money for mesal vaccinations am i seeing about 400 people die from malaria numbers constant and we are not aware of it we had no friends from uh from india at the check who talked to us he was looking out of the window and 400 000 people would leave deli because of corona the houses didn't want them anymore and they were to want to call them up to eight nine hundred kilometers and they couldn't cross state lines and it's happening actually again there's a photo in the times today so and i think we experienced that but also globally and do you think also america as a country besides there will we go is that the idea just to go back how it was or do you feel also with the new government that is a moment of change this is a moment something is happening um what what is your feeling what do the artists you talk to what what is barishnikov what's what do you and tip it you know what's your feeling well i first i think that going back is not only physically but also intellectually not an option ever even though we may think sometimes that we go back to something we always go forward i i do think that this is kind of a defining experience for us because what i'm hoping will it will result in is more humility more empathy and of course you know arts are very much part of humility and empathy there's nothing more humbling than being on stage doesn't matter who you are anything can happen so that's and uh so i do think that there is i think there is um well i can speak of my experience i think there is a renewed sense of community of we are in this together even though we are actually not together physically i think there is at least from what i see from artists i communicate with and also friends i i see with with great regularity actually for months now there is this sense that we are in this together and there is a you know a text i haven't seen you in three days are you okay which you know a year ago just assumed that i was somewhere else so there is something nice about that i think again the price is very high uh but i am hoping that that it will focus us on on is more essential things than perhaps surfacey things hopefully and within the world of music presenting where you and also john who it was yesterday moving is there a network emerging is there something where people talk we had Olga Garai uh from los angeles also said for the cultural commissioner who's very much connected with us and but also to the latino cuban like in the south american movement she said we created a network we appeal we are afraid we will be shut out you know what's still happening america gets all vaccinated and the borders go up nobody's allowed from the entire world till in five years from now we've vaccinated what will happen to global presenting we're going to add john a little on here also will be interesting to hear from him um i'll put it down but um um is your world do you feel also there are something some roots right zones are because there are some networks are emerging or is it individual i think it really depends on people i've always been lucky to to have a real network of colleagues and friends whether it's on the musicians side as on my performing hat or the arts administrator side i think you know different people function differently i i'm a i'm a heard person i love people and i love to be with people so i do have a lot of friends who i speak with very regularly about all these issues you know where we are and how can we do better and on every on every level including on diversity level and i think the the international thing is very interesting because now we're in a situation completely opposite than we thought we would be six months ago six months ago we thought that europe is going to get vaccinated first so i go i spent three weeks in verby a festival for a few summers now you know sort of i mean i can't say regularly but i've been going there for some years and um their attitude was well we will all be vaccinated now it's the polar ops we are all vaccinated but they're not they're still going ahead we have this amazing meeting of planning all these you know chalets for people who tested positive those who have to quarantine from countries that have to quarantine i mean it's a military operation but then you know you start to think okay can i plan right after i fly back from switzerland that i can just play a concert next day because maybe i'll have to quarantine because i'm coming from a country that may not be vaccinated because it's all changing all the time so our previous mode of planning is completely challenged so i have some performances in spain in october and i was supposed to go to los angeles directly from there and actually asked them to postpone it to april because i was afraid that i don't know what's going to happen in spain in october so it's all these things that are quite challenging but i think it's also it's it could end up being the polar opposite of what i said earlier which is happening now that in digital presentation there is no local because everything is available wherever you are and we may when we make these baby steps go really back to real local because the traveling especially international traveling may be you know difficult for a while which is i think not the worst thing i think it's great to look around and say who is my neighbor and what can you do what can we do together it's fine it's it's a quite a quite a good point that in one way it is really local like the countless others that we do this and not even someone from brooklyn is going to come and walk by right whom i was with but on the other hand someone as you pointed out in india i'm three one kind so i can watch it and and anyway they're you know the carbon footprint of flying around but you know about companies orchestras you know so i think the change thinking is changing um a little bit and you said you know checking the temperatures we are now aware that you know our body temperatures go up and it's a dangerous sign the first temperature about a couple of degrees we might survive like a tree you put a tree on i've got a beautiful bonsai tree i make a mistake i don't know my heating my heater and they put on overnight the steamy was dead the next morning it was was too hot you know i didn't survive and um and these are the big changes i think uh um as many people tour and others you know turn out they say this is a baby just a rehearsal for things to come and even if this crisis behind us others will come and climate change is an important part do you feel that in your context there is also um an awareness that um we all knew about it but there's a big urgency to engage and what would what are you going to guys going to do if so at barricade cover tip it is are there plans or miss well i think in both organizations they are continuing plans because as i said earlier with our ticket prices both at versicord center at tippet rise we were already kind of on that path of trying to be as inclusive as possible um we one thing that we were plotting at tippet rise and i really hope it it happens as soon as we can we kind of plotted a little road trip with three musicians and i was thinking straight player something very mobile and easy to set up to do pop-up concerts in saloons coffee shops galleries wherever you know in montana just to go to really small towns and i went i went on the road trip to kind of scope out locations and it was so wonderful and also shows how people are so willing everywhere we went people were like you would just do that i said sure and then it was so interesting because then some had these kind of preconceived notions of where classical music should belong so they would take me to like like remember this resort they would take me to this beautiful room where they would have like private parties or weddings or something and i said you know i was kind of thinking your saloon they said they would play there i said absolutely i mean with the right program and i you know we think like 15 or 20 minute programs so that's something i would really love to do simply to to make more attempts to break those barriers of and and preconceived you know conceptions what classical music is and and the barricade center we've done that a lot you know as much as possible i'm hoping to do kind of a street party in front of barricade center this summer to further kind of you know say hi to our neighbors as the weather you know gets nicer so i think i i i absolutely i mean absolutely you know it's it's been uh in you know at barricade center because we do music dance and theater just by the nature of having three disciplines there was such an amazing array of artists we've supported over the years in classical music alone it's a little harder to get that that much diversity but i think there's there's a real much needed effort and also to look at the past i mean it's amazing how you know you have these situations where that you know the the the major works were premiered by black artists in 18th century and we didn't know about it but how's that possible betta and cruiser sonata really nobody knew what bridge water it's like really it's the whiteout that history so it's i think it's so important to to understand that that didn't start today and so and just to build on it more and more which would be great how was your journey why when did you decide you wanted to live in the arts and why are the arts important to you why do you dedicate your life to it uh i think so much early on it wasn't that conscious it was it was a i was fascinated by by music uh but i didn't think of it as a profession in any way you know i was too young to really think practically but then of course as i went to i was born in in what is not bosnia and then it was Yugoslavia then and then when i was 16 i went to zagreb which is in korea now to continue my studies play piano already you took lessons or yes yes yes i started i played piano though i didn't start that young i started when i was nine and uh i continued my education and then i i wanted to go somewhere else and you know like i don't know how you end up in in the united states but sometimes these are looking back they're these kind of set of not quite accidents but like i didn't know what i was doing i went to audition at curtis institute frankly the only thing i knew about it was it was all scholarship because i had no money so so i was it was kind of dumb luck and uh then you know i stayed here i came to new york i went to drilliard you know quintessentially uh you know broke broke musician uh will do whatever i can to you know make a living but at the same time i was always curious about everything so whatever gig came my way i took it so at some point and i went to competitions and i got lucky here and there and i was you know playing concerts but you know it's you well know making making a living in performing arts is not an easy proposition and so i first my first foray in multi-disciplinary collaborations was was with martha clark was a co-commission between lincoln center and netherlands dance theater and i literally stumbled into it i have this friend shallot helicant was a wonderful swedish mezzo and martha was interested in working with her i was visiting her in glimmer glass where she was performing we were you know we went out for breakfast and she had a meeting with martha and i was sitting you know the sort of in another booth in this diner and at some point charlotte came to me she said well it's kind of ridiculous i told martha that i have a friend who's in martha simple wanted to just join us so i joined them and they continued conversations about this piece which was all kind of german expressionism and i said to her when did you look at early you know vaporant songs and and finally at the end she said to me you know i will also need a pianist are you interested in being involved so i said sure so i stumbled upon that and then through a dancer named robessor i met misha bershnikov i went on a tour with him and you know and then misha said oh i want to build this art center and i was like oh okay so it's been an incredible i now am of that age when people ask me for an advice and my only advice is walk through any door that opens you can always walk out so i had this incredible luck of meeting these extraordinary people and then you know when the center opened you know misha had this idea there will be a place of gathering of artists of exploring and being together and and multidisciplinary things and uh he said we had two residents at very i mean we barely were open and it was benjamin milke and azure barton two choreographers developing two different works and at first our building was divided with three commercial theaters and us on four floors above and there was a harley burley was rehearsed down with walla shaw and park repose and ethan hawk and at some point misha said to me well why don't you ask a musician for something to come and you do a little concert for all the dancers and we'll invite the actors downstairs and i asked my friend jennifer frauchie was a wonderful violinist and we did like 30 or 40 minutes and then you know everybody said that's such a great place for music and i thought well i don't know so then we ended up with this amazing relationship and sponsorship by mobado and i went on this meeting i had never held the job of any kind other than play the piano i went to this meeting and i said i have this idea to kind of recreate a 19th century salon where you would come in you would pick up a glass of something you would sit at these tables be nice lighting and there would be an hour long concert i i hate intermissions so for me an ideal circumstances i work i go out at six thirty or seven i have a glass of something i see or hear something for an hour i go out for dinner and i go home that's my ideal evening so i basically spelled this out and they said oh that sounds great well we do work with this catering company they did everything i i just kind of stood in disbelief that my dreams like that happened so it was incredible you know i felt like the luckiest boy alive so we had this really you know such such an extraordinary opportunity to have really a card launch you know i created what was to me an ideal concert and so then you know we've been at it for 15 years and since then we've done many other things and true and for the beginning i was fascinated with lights and for the beginning we asked for every concert we had a lighting designer we started with the great Jennifer Tipton and who did a lot of our concerts and if not she would send one of her students as she would say this is great education for them very little rehearsal just make it work and so we would create these beautiful atmospheres and again i would give the tarp launch i would send them the music and say this is what it is you create the atmosphere from the moment we walk into the space how it feels then what happens when the musicians go out so it's been a really really interesting and then you know we did some really you know elaborate collaborations with with true you know theatrical presentations of music and then of course all the other things and dance and theater both in development and presentation and then yes about a very bad technology about four years ago i was introduced to Peter and Kathy Halstead from tippet rise by my dear and unfortunately late friend Charlie Hamlin and i went to play there and i had never seen anything like it you know you go to this you know vast you know what they when they call it big sky they really mean big sky in Montana and so and the first thing you see when you get closer to anything you see this Alexander Kolder sculpture you're like wow and then you know you have this absolutely perfect but could not be simpler concert hall that seats 130 people and 10 9 foot stymies on the property so it's this incredible it's it's a real feeling of being a guest in nature with invading as little as possible because these cottages are just incredibly organic to the land they're wooden these structures and then these sculptures and to have this really organic care about the whole experience of a concert there's a restaurant you can get food you can go on a sculpture tour you can go hike or bike you can hear a concert you can go as i guess last well last year was nil two years ago the last structure we built at tippet rise was xylem which is actually the picture where i'm photograph your website for this conversation which is this incredible structure which was basically basically built for a place to just sit and listen to the sound of the brook or look around or speak with somebody and it's all found wood from from from forest fires and it was designed by francis carrey who's an amazing architect from working off us so who lives in berlin so it's this really it's it's the polar opposite of an urban environment you know and as such what's interesting to me i think the actual concert and the way we intake the content is different here we come from this mad city that we love most of the time and then we go into these kind of oasis of culture or arts or whatever and then but it does take us a little while to get there and this is we we presented a couple years ago korea the foseca of olheim's beginner ear beginner's ear which is a really really interesting project in which she has a guided meditation for 20 minutes and then you hear 30 minutes of music and her promises that we are most often not even ready to intake music when we go into a space i did arise the moment you entered the ranch you are in a different state so it's a really really interesting the whole experience is is is just fantastic so so i've been very lucky yeah no this is this is also for our theater communities a big reminder that yeah it does start when you cross you know the the store and you get into a space like in japanese tea houses there's a little garden and once you step over a stone which even has a something has a white painting in the middle you are and you go through the garden you sit down you take a shoe off you are then you go through a door that is very small originally to take your swords off you wouldn't fight and then you would look at often points of discussions if important thing would take place and i think this is something perhaps this corona time also put back in our mind that this is something of significance to slow down experience and to be in the moment and and that's what art and especially music of course are so great but yes we do so much and we run and if you go into a Broadway theater it's the opposite of it you know it's like cattle drives you go really go in and out so it doesn't it's missing and i think i don't know how i don't miss that side so much but i miss more of what you do and how i asked john yesterday that you're also an artist and you're an art administrator often you know the art administration schools now it's whether it's in columbia and brooklyn so many you know yeah or whatever and they become specialists but you're an artist how significant is the fact that you're an artist and you are in charge and that you can make decisions you know i think even more significant for both of those things that i'm a performer and administrator is the fact that i've never stopped being a consumer i love going to performances and i think it is that side that has informed me more than anything both as a performer as an administrator like you know i go into performances and then you observe things that make sense or don't make sense and you think oh i'm gonna steal that i like that so i think that's the part and i know john is the same way john lover and i think that makes a huge difference i think those who never stopped being audience then tried to figure out what would make it better so that's really my impetus on both ends both as a performer questioning all the conventions of performance like i always you know the length of the concert but also why do we walk on enough stage all the time i'm not exactly tired after seven minutes maybe i don't have to walk off maybe i could chat a little you know so all those decisions that these conventions in classical music i will never forget because at burshkova center our production staff is theatrical and of course the theater it's a much tighter experience of the whole show you do a real dress rehearsal in which you know there's current you know house to half you know then you do the whole thing in music we wing all that nobody ever speaks about what happens in between so we had a string quartet and they played you know a short piece like five minutes and they bowed people clad they bowed and they walked off and our prediction production person ran to be said is there something wrong and i realized how senseless that convention is like where they go why so that's really what interests me in concert presentations is to come sort of go down to the essence of what is really necessary to convey this amazing context that that we have at our disposal and what are just these kind of things we do without even thinking about them whether they produce any effect or what so i i think that's uh that informs me of both as a as an artist of course in in my own performance i've well i've certain freedoms in both sides i don't like to invade artists territory if that's what i want to do that's what i want to do it nobody's going to get surprised our audience is used to that but if somebody comes to me and says i have this idea i'm always say okay i'm all ears tell me what would you like and it's not always possible but but it's nice to you know and that has been really for instance this coming together project that we co-presented katie hewn who is a wonderful violinist and who is actually in our tip advice program tonight of these films she founded this ensemble called quarterly but which is kind of a a collective of string players and for the actual orzhevsky piece coming together she had this idea because people were still spread out to to individually film to each to have each musician film themselves in something that looked like a confinement set of course they all joke that they were like we're freelance musicians my apartment is a confinement cell so but but they created this incredibly interesting video that was so meaningful with with the work that was basically a staged version of that work so i think there's a lot of awareness once you open the door to to a lot of artists they will go through and they really there was so much thought put into all that so i think that's great yeah and i i think it is a significant sort of what one would say you know appearance on stage that institutions where artists are are in charge they create something even in the time of corona this is what i see and i would encourage all institutions also say you know put artists in charge put them on the board in all diversity and really listen to them it's not just lips of give them trust them and hire them and give them the the wheel and i think it's working now it really shows who does something and who doesn't who really wants to do something for the people and it's not for their institution or for the artists themselves and i think as you said there's a great great awareness now that art has to be shared and how meaningful it is as you said all these people say yeah of course you can perform here would you really say they're on both sides and they say yes of course we would do it and that it's not a commercial business that it's not just a big machine that we have to feed and that there's something more profound human significant underlying and the simplicity of it as you said which we are forced to face it yeah no it's a really interesting it's it's such a it really forces us to ask ourselves what is art and what what purpose does it serve in life and and i think that's such a meaningful question to ask ourselves all the time because just demanding attention or funding or coverage in newspapers or something to me sort of childish tell me why we just assume that it's this sort of entitled thing but it's not i think there is and we can blame education or this and that doesn't really matter where the situation where art has not touched everybody in our country or even in the world so what is that bridge that we can build to say hey walk over maybe there is something in it for you even though you think you know i've never heard of these people i don't know who they are so i think that's that's a really important quest and the question that you said yeah i want the people in the bar to hear all that you say the people outside we are and we always knew that but something happens i think Susan Feldman spoke about that same dance she said you know we couldn't do anything's okay we did a concert on the roof and people came yeah the garden and she we have always thought so hard how do we engage the community how do we do something when someone comes and then we were forced to do this and so beautifully in her great program and she said this is also changing us and so we all hope and think something is happening so really thank you for sharing for sharing that and also that's you know what one hears from you that you really say this is for the people this is for the audiences and the low prices which i think is such a big problem in new york family for kids uh you know somewhere um working class over what would say and describe that they can't go to a Broadway show it would cost a thousand dollars if they only have something not possible and also you know a hundred dollars you have Netflix all year and they will say no why you know this is even better stories and what it is of significance is the community's aliveness what are you working on at the moment what are you what's on your well but also personally what are you what are you creating what are you doing a little bit actually look at this haze incredible what he does at the same time so what are you working on for the two the plans for the two institutions but also personally what are you creating so imminently i'm doing something very interesting that's uh been kind of busting my chops um i am learning a work by a composer named gregory spears called seven days which i'm starting to record next week and his idea which i think is very interesting i guess that's why i'm doing it is to explore what does it mean to hear music at different times of the day so this this project is meant to be uh audio only and virtual it's going to be done through an app in which you will receive of work and they range between three and eight minutes or so every morning afternoon and evening for seven days so they're 21 works and there's about 90 minutes or so of music and i thought it was such an interesting idea along of these explorations what what is art and how do we react to it is it different do we assign a different meaning to a morning piece or to an evening piece because of course the beauty of instrumental music is that is it is abstract and that's of course i think why arts are important because it's one of the few spaces in human existence where your opinion is all that matters nobody can tell you what to love or not to love in music or dance or visual arts you can make your own decisions and you can and then five years later you can change them there's no there's no measuring stick and that's the beauty of it so uh so i've been really really given the strangest of the strangest of how we function in pandemic times and how anything's possible the piece was sort of finished in i guess in december or so and in in a regular quote-unquote life we would be talking about the premiere in two years from now but here we are i'm quoting it next week so i'm i feel a little like uh oh that's really soon so i've been really working on that i was in atlanta last week filming shop and second concert over the atlanta symphony and uh for uh barricade by center we are commissioning a new group of artists and now starting to think about you know residents we have we are accommodating some of the residents that we had to cancel last spring so they are now coming during the summer to develop some works in the building and we're starting to look into the you know future of live performances and at tibetan rise similarly we have commissioned some artists and we're continuing to film and uh we're looking you know into 2022 for you know live concerts but very much aware that this digital production will go on and it's been very fascinating a tibetan rise site is also multi-disciplinary because of the sculptures and also with very very deep connections with poetry so our films often have points in them and interspersed and so it's been really really kind of wonderful in both organizations to first of all i i feel like a santa clause for starters you know when when pandemic hit i couldn't be more proud of both organizations that immediately said we will pay all the artists who were cats because you know people's income just was gone so we paid the fees and then immediately both misha version cover and Peter Peter and Kathy host that immediately said what can we do now now to really you know provide work so it's been really it's been amazing to be a part of that and and so we're you know continuing with that and but you know also really looking forward to you know being together sneezing in public just being around i'm ready listen thank you really for taking time out for rehearsing for this important thing the videos you can also see on the arishnikov art center website or yes so all all of the version of the bac nyc.org everything is free and the same as the tibet rise tibet rise.org there's a lot of yeah bac nyc.org and then tibet rise.org and i think there might be somewhere in in the links with this broadcast but i don't somewhere so you can find on apple on apple you just put in your name or yeah yeah you can then youtube and all all those predictable spaces there's some wonderful videos actually both from bershko et cetera at tibet rise on youtube and bimeo and on our websites one thing that has been really interesting because we're both small organizations we have consistently documented all performances so when the pandemic happened we had this library of films that we could share and in in both cases we've also been dedicated to encourage artists to share because you know as a performing artist you don't own anything and very often you can't get a video of it so you have this history of performance with nothing to show i mean very little to show so this has been a very conscious effort in both organizations to document and to encourage artists to say this share it you know post it do whatever so it's been wonderful to you know go to because you know often we are so busy with with planning the new performances and we are now as well but i mean this was such a time to really reach into those libraries and get those videos out so it's been really wonderful to revisit some of those performances and then invite the artists to speak and create little events around them and this and i would really encourage everybody to to see both websites and particularly this weekend for the we call it to the rise on tour because we're not you know our location these new films which have been really a joy to to be a part of amazing a good reminder document visual arts are so much better at it but document your art and share it you know and all these concerns people have just you know there's something of significance and we that perhaps it's changing and on both sides inside it is it is there's a and it's quite into here from you it's important to say this will stay this is not just a solution we were forced into we couldn't say no this is of importance we learned something and actually it's working and it's a this is a very big announcement in a way and should all put us to think also theaters you know we're thinking should we do it at all not and then they okay we'll do it but only till it starts again but there is perhaps something to discover and i think some theaters in germany hired digi torques drama torques who are then responsible digital arm or leg however whatever you want to call it so something is moving is changing and perhaps in 50 or under the age when people say you're like we all started at that time who knows but i think the important thing to me to me is that to say that it's in addition to a not instead of it's definitely in addition to we will never get tired of being with each other and experiencing performing arts at that moment and never again there's something so beautiful about that that it's not going to happen again so that's great it's great but also something something new emerge so thank you page for really for sharing your your your work with us and we are so thankful that you come came to us and that you are able to to share and are willing to do so this is of significance and and of importance so thank you so much next week we go on we will have a Rachel Cooper from the Asia Society with the besides formally from face she's going to Palermo to the Gundy's theater and we will have artists from Indonesia and with us from Nigeria and from Switzerland so we will go on with our also global dialogue and it's important to hear from you and what you do is so important for the city for the arts is a symbol as an imaginary space but also as a real space and we have so much respect for your center and also originally coughed that for putting it out there and creating it but also you to make it happen and that's a lot we can learn from and this is all very very important and serious and it has consequences what you're saying what you did so really thank you for sharing it to the audiences thank you for taking the time as Petra said so much is out there but it's a bit like it used to be the New York Times you read a paper and then you got the information but now we have the internet and we are confused about all this stuff that we could and should not read in the same as was for performers it was pretty clear where you went and go but all of a sudden is a flounder of things and but still there are institutions and artists we really should follow and pay attention to as someone said we also have to pay attention what we pay attention to so let's pay attention to these centers to these institutions that you know also showed in the time of corona that producing creating art is of significance and you found new ways and we're still exploring as you said thank you so much everybody having a low on your organizations and to the audiences hope you will be able to tune in next week and thanks to howl around our truly great host we are so thankful to be there nationally and internationally present our center is closed I can't get my university without basically a police officer going with me to my office completely I just got an email that also we will not be able to do live programming in the fall nobody even talked to me we just got it in a mail and so but this is a reality and and we also trying to do something that's very inspiring class to you thank you and thank you all thank you